Laws can only ever be fair when everyone is equal in the physical - equal housing, sanitation and electricity, equal nourishment, equal education, equal health care - Laws are not the problem - INEQUALITY is the problem
Everyone here on earth is able to be supported equally to live a dignified life - you don't need to be jesus to see that. So jesus is irrelevant when it comes to us having to find a practical way to establish a system of equality - atm more than 3 billion people live on less than 2 dollars a day - the Jesus of the bible only helped a few without seeing the bigger picture
Your concept of socialism is limited. You messed up the ideal of socialism and how to achieve it. You mess up the Kingdom of Heaven and kingdoms of this world. When the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of Yahshua by the VIOLENCE of the Power of Yahweh, all socialist and communist ideals shall be achieved.
@jingvt However, christian nations of this world are just of the prince of this world, and capitalists, imperialists, and colonists.,,,all are based on the evil desire or selfish, without righteous judgment and love the human beings equally created in the image of Elohim.
Besides the fact Jesus did use violence in relation to his philosophy (john 2), your idea of socialism seems to be confused with the idea of Marxism as a whole. Socialism is only a socio economic philosophy and the way you implement this theory is another matter. Go type socialism in a search bar.
@noahbirdrevolution I know exactly what socialism is. The ends of socialism cannot be separated from the means it employs in an (unsuccessful) attempt bring about those ends. Socialism is a state enforced system of laws. That is not how the Kingdom of God will or can be built.
@noahbirdrevolution So I assume you do not object to the using the police power of the state to enforce all of the ethical teachings of Jesus?
Should we use laws and force to control lust? Outlaw porn and strip clubs and nudity in movies?
How about to prevent adultery? Outlaw remarriage after a divorce?
Why be selective as to which of Jesus's ethical teachings concerning morality in the kingdom we should attempt to implement using the underlying threat of force inherent in any legislation.
I believe you are missing the point. I am arguing from a strictly socio economic standpoint. You seem to be referring to legislative and executive matters. Put police states, maoist communism, theocracies, and democracies aside. Socialism in application to socio economics is an idea of distributing weatlh fairly, not evenly, throughout society. Why? In the United States' capitalist economic system the elite top 2% controls 95% of all wealth.
Issues of freedom and police states are connected to economics, I will give you that, but it all boils down to the people in power creating laws and how they execute those laws. Theories of economics doesnt dictate morality.
@noahbirdrevolution Socialism does not exist separate from legislation. Your position is like saying that you can be for light-bulbs but against the electricity needed to illuminate them. In this case socialism is the light-bulb and legislation is the electricity that it operates on. Socialism is meaningless without legislation, therefore you can't support it without having to also supporting the legislation required to make it work?
Man Jesus was around before we had terms that described modern government and economic philosophy. In terms of wealth Man Jesus did preach redistribution by the upperclasses to those who asked how to enter heaven. Also, Jesus did act out in anger when men were exchanging money and selling animals in the holy temple. That is in John chapter 2.
It really doesn't matter that the term socialism wasn't used back then. We know that Jesus did not teach that the kingdom was to built by gaining control of the state and using it's police power to bring about a "moral" society by force.
As far as redistribution goes. Jesus taught voluntary charity, Voluntary giving is completely different from the state using the treat of violence to extract money forcefully from people. Charity ends where the gun begins.
I realize that they are not the same thing. I actually believe they are diametrically opposed to each other. Unfortunately many Christians are confused on this issue. I have had several people tell me that Jesus was for socialism. I am just wanting to help those people understand the truth.
@stonemadeflesh That's why I didn't approve your video response. I think the two are so far apart from each other that they just confuse the issue.
I also happen to believe that Socialism, like any worldview or political viewpoint, can be distorted by evil regimes, but that doesn't mean that the philosophy itself is bad. There are plenty of "good" social democracies out there.
Jesus was also an American who loved apple pie and mom.
jerrygreg2 3 months ago
In the middle of watching this I gathered that you must be some type of libertarian.
2274brian 3 months ago
Strawman argument. Nil points :)
apeswithhobbies 6 months ago
Laws can only ever be fair when everyone is equal in the physical - equal housing, sanitation and electricity, equal nourishment, equal education, equal health care - Laws are not the problem - INEQUALITY is the problem
GabrielZamoraMoreno 1 year ago
Everyone here on earth is able to be supported equally to live a dignified life - you don't need to be jesus to see that. So jesus is irrelevant when it comes to us having to find a practical way to establish a system of equality - atm more than 3 billion people live on less than 2 dollars a day - the Jesus of the bible only helped a few without seeing the bigger picture
GabrielZamoraMoreno 1 year ago
Your concept of socialism is limited. You messed up the ideal of socialism and how to achieve it. You mess up the Kingdom of Heaven and kingdoms of this world. When the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of Yahshua by the VIOLENCE of the Power of Yahweh, all socialist and communist ideals shall be achieved.
jingvt 1 year ago
@jingvt However, christian nations of this world are just of the prince of this world, and capitalists, imperialists, and colonists.,,,all are based on the evil desire or selfish, without righteous judgment and love the human beings equally created in the image of Elohim.
jingvt 1 year ago
Uh, good luck with your logic.
noahbirdrevolution 1 year ago
Besides the fact Jesus did use violence in relation to his philosophy (john 2), your idea of socialism seems to be confused with the idea of Marxism as a whole. Socialism is only a socio economic philosophy and the way you implement this theory is another matter. Go type socialism in a search bar.
noahbirdrevolution 1 year ago
@noahbirdrevolution I know exactly what socialism is. The ends of socialism cannot be separated from the means it employs in an (unsuccessful) attempt bring about those ends. Socialism is a state enforced system of laws. That is not how the Kingdom of God will or can be built.
stonemadeflesh 1 year ago
@noahbirdrevolution So I assume you do not object to the using the police power of the state to enforce all of the ethical teachings of Jesus?
Should we use laws and force to control lust? Outlaw porn and strip clubs and nudity in movies?
How about to prevent adultery? Outlaw remarriage after a divorce?
Why be selective as to which of Jesus's ethical teachings concerning morality in the kingdom we should attempt to implement using the underlying threat of force inherent in any legislation.
stonemadeflesh 1 year ago
I believe you are missing the point. I am arguing from a strictly socio economic standpoint. You seem to be referring to legislative and executive matters. Put police states, maoist communism, theocracies, and democracies aside. Socialism in application to socio economics is an idea of distributing weatlh fairly, not evenly, throughout society. Why? In the United States' capitalist economic system the elite top 2% controls 95% of all wealth.
noahbirdrevolution 1 year ago
Issues of freedom and police states are connected to economics, I will give you that, but it all boils down to the people in power creating laws and how they execute those laws. Theories of economics doesnt dictate morality.
noahbirdrevolution 1 year ago
@noahbirdrevolution Socialism does not exist separate from legislation. Your position is like saying that you can be for light-bulbs but against the electricity needed to illuminate them. In this case socialism is the light-bulb and legislation is the electricity that it operates on. Socialism is meaningless without legislation, therefore you can't support it without having to also supporting the legislation required to make it work?
stonemadeflesh 1 year ago
Man Jesus was around before we had terms that described modern government and economic philosophy. In terms of wealth Man Jesus did preach redistribution by the upperclasses to those who asked how to enter heaven. Also, Jesus did act out in anger when men were exchanging money and selling animals in the holy temple. That is in John chapter 2.
noahbirdrevolution 1 year ago
@noahbirdrevolution Hello,
It really doesn't matter that the term socialism wasn't used back then. We know that Jesus did not teach that the kingdom was to built by gaining control of the state and using it's police power to bring about a "moral" society by force.
As far as redistribution goes. Jesus taught voluntary charity, Voluntary giving is completely different from the state using the treat of violence to extract money forcefully from people. Charity ends where the gun begins.
stonemadeflesh 1 year ago
BTW, socialism is not the same thing as social justice.
hafire 1 year ago
@hafire Hello,
I realize that they are not the same thing. I actually believe they are diametrically opposed to each other. Unfortunately many Christians are confused on this issue. I have had several people tell me that Jesus was for socialism. I am just wanting to help those people understand the truth.
stonemadeflesh 1 year ago
@stonemadeflesh That's why I didn't approve your video response. I think the two are so far apart from each other that they just confuse the issue.
I also happen to believe that Socialism, like any worldview or political viewpoint, can be distorted by evil regimes, but that doesn't mean that the philosophy itself is bad. There are plenty of "good" social democracies out there.
hafire 1 year ago
@hafire I think the idea of hybrd government and socio-economic systems is too abstract for some people. haha Hope all is well!
noahbirdrevolution 7 months ago