The first one mentions the first expansion of the matter in the early universe (i.e. the big bang)
The second one could be a reference to how atoms clump together and form molecules and molecules clump together to make microscopic materials and so on and so forth.
You cannot translate Quraan and the analyze it by delving into every detail, to delve into every detail analyze it in arabic because Arabic is not only the hardest language but also the one with the most terms and complexity
@silveren777 expanding earth is rejected by most scientists but many others have been advocating it since darwin & a lot of them r against pangea . it is more credible than pangea & makes sense .
expanding earth theory talks about expansion made 60million years ago . quran was reveled only 1400 years ago . so if quran used the past verb ''extended'' , is correct . moreover , satellites didn't record no new extention of earth in late years , so quran is right : earth extended & no more extends .
How many compared to the whole scientific community? If their new hypothesis were valuable it'd be been considered by geology.
As this hypothesis is made to explain continental drift, the expansion is supposed to be an ongoing process. Contrary to plate tectonics, that hypothesis doesn't predict orogenesis.
The koran: a vain and futile attempt to clothe an otherwise naked and empty philosophy in some semblance of scientific credibility by invoking itself as its own written authority!
@BelieveNoGod Um Arabs back then didn't communicate with these civilizations, plus neither all those civilizations had any clue that earth was rounded(yes if u read it in arabic danaha means rounded, plus in arabic the worded egg shaped doesn't need to be oval), nor had any clue how the human was born.
@supermiro07 Do you need contact with the 'author' to learn something ?
NOPE.
What I'm saying is that most of the 'science' in the quran was known long before it was assembled into that black book you call 'holy'. And most of those civilizations made long travels. For trade and exploring.
Knowledge, and inventions spread back in those days too.
Look up on the stars, the moon, and the other planets. Wouldn't they understand the Earth would have the same shape ?
i would only focus your mentioned point that Aristotle first discovered that earth is spherical.O.K.now tell me why upto the recent time this verse of Quran has been translated into otherwise form,that is in " HE expanded wide expanse " .If Muhammad supposedly coppied it from Aristotle then he should tell his companion that this verse mean spherical, just to impress that he has a vast knowledge of the universe. but this verse was passed on in otherwise form.it proves that Arab were not aware .
The way is not to react violently to anyone's views... Everyone has the freedom of thought and holds the authority to think believe and act to whatever he/she feels like... The real thing is to ask yourself free your mind from conspiracies and make best use of your mind...Nothing is without reason and the points mentioned in video are the person's views and an intellectual can simply tell that earth is not ball shaped it's 21ST century and everyone know its ellipsoidal that closely resembles egg
The shape of earth and moon reflecting light has been there since beginning of their existnce. It was only a matter of time when God revealed such info in quran to prove his existence. this guy is implying that we copied aristotle. no arab even knew who aristotle and his theories were so how could they copy him? What about all the other dozens and dozens of scientific facts in the quran? like embryology? mountains having pegs or roots? earth orbiting the sun not other way around and etc..
"It was only a matter of time when God revealed such info in quran to prove his existence."
Claims of hidden meanings unveiled after the fact are pretty common, and known for making people confuse selective interpretations with intended meanings.
"no arab even knew who aristotle and his theories were..."
Supposing few of them somehow knew his works is more parcimonious than the explanation by divine revelation.
LOL THIS is why you non muslims dont understnd anything. You just simply take things out of context. For example, about the earth being an egg shaped. If you read the quran the word used for the shape of egg in arabic refers to AN OSTRICH EGG-- WHICH IS LIKE THE SHAPE OF THE EARTH. The quran isn't just talking about any egg since that way it could be a chicken egg, dinosaur egg, or crocodile egg etc. Its talking about an ostrich egg!!
BTW the Earth doesn't share ressemblance to an ostrich egg. The flattening factor of the latter is 86.6% near a sphere, whereas that of the Earth is 99.66%, indeed reducing our planet to the size of an ostrich egg, one would hardly detect any flattening.
And let's remember, Earth=OBLATE spheroid, ostrich egg=PROLATE spheroid
The arabic verb "daha" rather points to the levelled area made by an ostrich to lay its egg, not its eggs themselves.
BIBLE=CONTAIN ALL THE SCIENCE KNOW FROM THE GREEK AND HIS DESCENDANT THE ROMAN AND SO THE BABYLONIAN , THE BIBLE HAS BEEN RE WRITTEN BY THE HISTORIAN AND THE SCIENTIFIC AND THE PORN PRODUCER ^^ AT THAT TIME AND THATS WHY THE KORAN COME TO CORRECT ALL THIS WRONG SCIENCE THAT PEOPLE AT THAT TIME THINK TO BE RIGHT EVEN IF THERE IS PART RIGHT BUT THE OTHER PART IS WRONG
that are in koran , they dont mention the 3 different period of embryon life ect.......now other thing , astronomy , greeks believe that the earth was sperical , koran dont even mention earth spearical , but they say also that the univers if finish its not grown , humble law , and they said that sun is the center of univers and the earth DONT MOVE IN THE UNIVERSE , big mistake , and so on on , AND ALL THIS SCIENCE IS IN THE BIBLE , IF YOU WANT TO KNOW THE GREEK BABYLONIAN ROMAN SCIENCE
OR OTHER THINGS for example , another thing , ptolymee told that the eye send light by itself and not refract the light come from outside , no it send is own light and say the THE MOON AS THE SUN SEND LIGHTS AND ITS IN THE BIBLE , thats the ptolyme works and the first to say that this was wrong was a persian scientist in 10 century to say this cant be truth but this is in the KORAN , now other in the field of embryoly , everytime i heard that greeks ........... but greeks didnt know a lot of
LOL what you are doing is saying that greeks and babylonian tell some scientific things but made a lot untruth which are not in the koran , all in the koran cant be demonstrate to be wrong , first thing that i can say , is the fact that greeks speak about atom , wrong , the koran say it has more particules than the "atom" , and this atom can be broken and the energy be used such for the atomic bomb , IN FACT THE GREEKS AND OTHER SCIENTIST DONT SPEAK ABOUT ATOM THEY SPEAK ABOUT A SPEAK OF DUST
The koran: a vain and futile attempt to clothe an otherwise empty philosophy in some semblance of scientific credibility by invoking itself as its own written authority!
Koran: a vain and futile attempt to clothe an otherwise empty philosophy in some semblance of scientific credibility by invoking itself as its own written authority!
"Try to understand the general point being made and it will make sense, guys. It's simply a metaphor for the earth's non-perfect sphereness."
If Allah is in control of everything, he could have made sure that virtually all ostrich eggs, no matter what, would always perfectly match the dimensions of Earth.
He could have made the verse match the reality absolutely perfectly, instead of a total fail on prolate vs. oblate spheroid and 13%+ error on the diameter.
@64malek You forgot to take into consideration that the Quran was written 1400 years ago, and had to be put in terms that the whole population could understand in that time and the times to come... It was thought at the time the earth was FLAT.. not even spherical, just FLAT.. The Quran proves otherwise much earlier than Christopher Columbus... You claim "13%+" error and you're small inconsistency, but how is it you came to know these facts? By people discovering them much after the Quran did
now science clam that sun have its own axe in which he move and its already explain secondly u talk about earth shape brother when u where born u was a baby and know nothing and now u r grown man so if u change in 20 to 50 age y not the earth it can also change with respect of time ///
Yes, science knows that the sun has an axis.Yes, it rotates on that. However, the Koran made no reference to this and you pointing it out is, well, pointless.
Gravity is a theory. However, because this is science a theory is the highest amount of weight a idea can have behind it. Gravity dictates the Earth's shape. Gravity in this condition is constant. It does not change. Because of that it's impossible for the Earth's shape to change. Especially not in 20 to 50 years.
hehe illogical ,, when muslims says that Quran is the book of science ,, but when ever he talked about science it is 100% proves,, i mean to say ,illitrate prophet who even cant read and write his own name clearly is told these facts even if it was invented before 1400 years ,,
ACCORDING TO MUSLIMS THE QURAN TALKS ABOUT THE THERORY OF THE BIG BANG IN 21:30 WHERE IT SAYS THAT "THE HEAVEN AND THE EARTH FORMED A COMPACT MASS THAT WE SEPARATED" BUT WAIT A MINUTE, ACCORDING TO SCIENTIST THE EARTH EXISTED MILLIONS OF YEARS AFTER THE BIG BANG. IT COULDN'T HAVE BEEN THERE DURING THE BIG BANG, AND BESIDES THE QURAN SAYS IN 41:10-12 THE OPPOSITE, THAT GOD CREATED THE EARTH FIRST AND THEN THE HEAVEN. SO IT IS IMPOSSIBLE
The quran has nothing scientific. 67:5 says that "stars are missiles to shoot the devil" and not what they are, huge suns. In 41:12 it talks about 7 heavens, the old false belief that the universe was divided in 7 heavens. Today muslims try to say that "it is only referring to the 7 layers of the atmosphere", but 41:12 says also that "the stars are located in the closest heaven"...PFFFFFFFF! So it can't be the atmosphere. LOL..Too close
capn ordinary doesnt state how many false thing aristotle came up with and the people at that time. their aer some things that people knew even before the qur'an but those people also knew many scientific facts(back then) that contradict moder science today. so how did the qur'an manage to pin point 500 correct ones and not any of the false ones of those times. dont tell me it was a coincidence..... 500 times!
they are numerous possible interpretations and the Quran doesn't give enough detail on a subject ,which decrease the odd of making wrong statements.
Regarding the claim the Quran doesn't copy the error of ancients scientists, i wouldn't be so certain:
some verses may be compatible with ancient ideas like those of solid sky and geocentrism, and it claims also the Earth and all the stars would die on the same day (ressurection), which clearly contradicts cosmology.
@silveren777 look bro its not a science book it contains science in it but the point of it is to be a manual for human life. the fact that it contains that infomation written from an illiterate man is miraculous. even if a literate man wrote it , it would still be miraculous, theirs not a single contradiction in it bro. im tryna be polite but people expect god to smack them and say believe. If that was the case everyone would believe, the point of life is it is a test to determine where....
If it contained science, why do people wait till modern science discovered things in order to find scientific allusions? That method foreshadows postdiction.
The illiteracy of Muhammad doesn't prove there wasn't anyone who wrote the Quran for him.
@silveren777 im not sure what ur asking but i will try to anser it as best as i can. its like arabs back then always said the qur'an had many mysteries in it because they didnt understand some things. like how the see has underwater currents and different depths of darkness. they thought this was a mystery because they didnt have diving suits that could reach those depths but the qur'an states it. so as modern science progresses it uncovers more things in the qur'an....
Well, alleged prophecies from Nostradamus are also full of meanings and mysterious before the fact, does it mean that Nostradamus really talk about future but hid the miraculous statement?
The alleged scientific verses also have unscientific meanings, so it require a leap of faith to choose the scientific meaning and discard the rest to prove the Quran is scientifically miraculous.
@silveren777 well now man has developed a vast and precise vocabulary for everything they want to describe. the qur'an was written in time when man didnt have that, and those words are what people and children best understood. because the book is meant to be able to be read by all ages at that time that were able to read.
Even with limited vocabulary you can make clear descriptions.
You're begging the question: the argument 'meant to be for any generations' doesn't prove the Quran implies we would find new theories replacing the ones at its time, some could aslo understand this in a non-evolving science viewpoint.
Alleged prophecies can be also used for all epochs, but does it really mean the mirauclous meaning were intended by its author?
@silveren777 yes. moses(pbuh) perfomed miracles. jesus(pbuh) performed miracles. muhammed(pbuh) mriacle is the everlasting qur'an god sent to him through revelations. its a miracle sent to man so their is some evidence behind why he should believe to prove their must be a higher power. if u wanna go tit for tat then u do that then keep filling ur head with these doubts. ur only hurting urself.
@silveren777 i will give you a referal. study the case the famous french archeologist Dr. Maurice Bucaille did in the 90's on the mummy in egypt. hes now muslim. u see many famous scientist have converted to islam those were the open minded individials. but then theirs little cats like you who think they know everything in the world. please realize how close minded that is.
Ah i gets the definition, open-mindness is argeeing with my belief, isn't it?
No, argument ad verecundiam doesn't work on me, you forget to mention all the scientists who consider the Quran and science thesis as useless and far-fetched for the same reasons as mines.
@silveren777 yes if it made sense to me i absolutely would. i believe the science part but u trying to tell me we dont have a purpose in this life. and their is no after life and no god, i cant buy. like i said i was you and gone through what ur going through but u havent been to the side with light. all u gotta do is open ur eyes and heart. and yes their those scientists that didnt convert. but if they all did their would be no need for hell.
the last sentence must be clarified. How do you know my mind is closed? So you're telling me i'm a liar when i say i'm not convinced in the sense i did see compelling evidence but i want to reject them?
How do you know we have a purpose created from above?
@silveren777 yepp because the man who did the study his analysis coincided with what the qur'an claimed. well from what i have learned from studying islam. i have learned that we are created on this earth for the purpose to worship god. but its upto us if we are going to do it. and between our good and bad deeds determines where we will go in the next life.
What Maurice Bucaille discover in egypt hasn othing to do with the Pharaoh of Moses times.
Just because he found salt doesn't mean he has been drowned, indeed egyptians used a kind of salt called natron to preserve dead bodies from natural decay.
@silveren777 he proved that it had salt and it was a drowned victim. i mean i think he knows that field better thna both of us and if the evidence wasnt clear enough he wouldnt have converted so by all means continue with ur ideology its of 0 benefit to urself my friend.
Just search Ramses II on the net, you'll see the claim of his drowning appear... on religious websites, whereas scientific sources doesn't support it: modern historians think he merely died from sickness. are they less credible than you Bucaille?
@silveren777 yes the bible claims it but theirs is different i forgot what it said. but the qur'an has the correct info on it. i mean idk dude a historian works on hearsay a archeologist works with evidence. so u choose
@silveren777 i dont doubt it. but who would the historian be getting the information from. and if dr. maurice bucaille did the study on and hes the archeologist. where did the change of story being with...?
Respond to this video... ... just like people thought the verse where it says the moon was split in half was false. and then nasa proved it right in the 90's.
Respond to this video... u will spend ur eternal life in. Even though god has mercy and eventually everyone makes it out of hell and into heaven. please trust me i was the most stubborn atheist bro. But islam is the truth man. i mean isnt it kinda obvious how animals have been around just as long as we have if not longer, and they havent even formed a precise form of communication. or even the most primitive invention like the wheel. god gave them their natural abilities...
Respond to this video... and he gave humans their amazing intellect. u look at an animal in the wild that thing will never be depressed (unless it is caged). Because its not meant to be thinking about death or after life. we have intellect to think about these things and to take heed( to not be careless) bro.
Respond to this video... i invested my time into trying to enlighten you, but its you who has to make the choice. if u have nothing positive to say back then save it, im not interested.
@silveren777 nah its only because i have had many arguments on youtube and its such a waste of time dude. because if its not meant to be no matter how much info i bring to them they just refuse to believe their is a god. so i just stopped arguing with people., if u dont want to benefit urself thats fine by me, but my duty is to try. because i dont want u to be a witness against me that i didnt bring the message to you. its just obvious. why don tanimals have a frontal lobe?...
@silveren777 i honestly dont need a biologist to tell me why, because that is a theory. and don take theory as fact. everything in the qur'an is a proven fact, so please lift the veil off ur eyes unplug ur ears and open ur heart. You dont want to be sorry. and dont tell me im brainwashed, i believe my dude and i hope one day god can open ur heart to the truth. salam (peace)
So you're telling me that, to explain the lack of reasoning in animals, saying "God did it!" is better than a scientific theory? The latter is based upon facts, even if it's not certain, it's epistemologically better than the former which is based on ignorance or faith.
I'm open minded, but not to strange or baseless ideas.
@silveren777 no dude im telling u from my perspective its kind of obvious we humans are meant for something other than this world alone. Lol that is such a paradox. u said ur "open minded" but yet u have a preconceived notion on the qur'an. thats as ignorant as it gets. so we can end this conversation because things are clear, ive talked to many of you's before. Salam (peace)
No, it's not obivous we are meant to something that transcends this world.
Preconcieved notion? You claim there are quranic miracles, no? then prove it, otherwise don't charge skeptics with ignorance and narrow-mindness because that's really dishonest.
This is what i thought, you're there for preaching without considering other counter-argument seriously; that's not the definition of debates. and I aslo debated with people like you.
@silveren777 man nobody sat down and did that for me. go on google or youtube and look them up. and how am i being narrow minded and dishonest dude? but u see i was a damn atheist but when i said i was open minded i really was. u have shut ur brain up and dont allow the possibility god to exist. this isnt christianity or judiasm u dont juts have to believe. we have evidence to enforce the faith. but u can do the research bro. sorry im doing hw.
@silveren777 i dont know him persoanlly. but i did read and watch his story. i have yet to read his book insh'allah. but yea i understand thats better than i was. i would argue with family and strangers that religion is man made and it was made to control man etc. etc. i also got in to the humanist belief. but that hole (not to be cliche) wasnt filled. since i had that ideology i got into alot of drugs cuz i just didnt care about life also the fact i was really despressed...
Respond to this video... because of that ideology. sweden norway and denmark lead the world with most amount of atheists. which they brag about. but what they dont brag about is they lead in the world for the most amount of suicides along with drug and alcohol abuse. do u see the correlation there?
Such a correlation is naive. a lack of belief of objective and predetermined purpose (like the one sent by God) doesn't stop people from inventing their own purpose, fixing their own objectives; since we're free entities.
@silveren777 lol such a correlation is naive? i think ur better at coming up with big words than using ur logic and reasoning. if it was just denmark with highest amount of death after the amount of atheists then i would say its still too early to draw a correlation. but the top 3 atheist countries are followed by the top 3 suicide rates. if that it not plain and obvious then please kid carry on with ur life i got a lot of hw im in the middle of. Salam(peace)
@silveren777 no monolithic religion involves the belief in one god. and atheism is a belief , the belief that u dont believe their is a god. and this world is. and matter is everything and the only thing that exists.
Don't confuse monolithic and monotheism. Your definition of atheism was pretty laughable "belief you don't believe in something"..think just one second, your sentence doesn't make sense, if you don't belieff anything BY DEFINITION you have no belief.
About the rest, you're confusing aslo atheism with metaphysical naturalism; you can be an atheist and think it's possible supernatural exists.
@silveren777 lol thats why atheist make me laugh. they go on living life preaching how they dont believe in something. thats the sad but true definition of it.
I don't think it's the true definition, since atheists can have beliefs (even though the object of their belief can't be religious). Hence, nothing sad...
@silveren777 yea i see. but keep in mind no matter how much evidence comes to some people they still wont believe. if the qur'an had modern scientific words they would still find something to try and talk down on the qur'an. something stressed in the qur'an is yyour freedom of choice to believe in god, it is you in the end accountable for that choice. so i hope u maybe learned something as i tried my best to help u realize the mentality and approah u have with islam. take care and Salam(peace).
@silveren777 ok well in that case if u half 7 and a hlaf hours. please go watch "the arrivals" its a documentary. please i beg u to watch and let me know exactly what u think and tell me what u refute. its on youtube theirs 52 parts of it. please watch.
Don't see what's the link between our discussion and such conspiracy theories on The Arrivals. Anyway, one of its ideas that has more to do with what we debate is the one that atheism and the theory of evolution are tools invented by satanist societies in order to extermine the belief in God in people mind; this is so patently ludicrous that it wouldn't need to be refuted.
@silveren777 i mean dude its only a theory its not a fact but they drill it in ur head in high school like it is a fact. why dont watch a debate with hamza tzortzis and peter cave a famous atheist. or rick lewis, rick is agnostic but has some good arguments. but try peter cave first. and thanks for checking out the arrivals i respect that. did u watch it all?
Evolution has been observed through mutations, and it's not unreasonable to conclude that an accumulation of mutations make a new spiece. A theory doesn't always mean something
speculative.
I look the debate you talk about. His argument are well-known and not difficult to be doubted:
he makes a non-sequitur when he said the existence of objective morality implies a God; why couldn't it be like a knowledge just like logic that could be eternal?
The God morality cointains also many issues that are highlighted by Euthrypo's dilemma (i'd say trilemma):
Either morality is God's arbitrary will: in this view, he could even command the killing of babies and such command would become Good by definition. I let you see if that's tenable...
Or God can't command babies killing because He relies on a morality that's eternal like Him, but in this case we could bypass God, and determine it by our reason.
@silveren777 i see ur point. but in islam anything of a command is just logical. well then one might say ur logic is then ur own natural morality, but it stems back to religion again. but u see in nazis times everyone loved hitler (few didnt) because the consesus at the time was its justifiable to kill jews. so u see mans own "morality" sometimes is really not good even though at the time it could have made sense to kill jews etc. i hope i didnt lose u on that one.
No, that doesn't make sense what you say: if God's moral rule are logical, then since humans have the potential to grasp logic alone, why religion would be needed?
@silveren777 yea i didnt really make sense their. but idk man like u kno when u do something messed up u feel shit inside. but when u do good u feel good. everything that would make me feel good or bad is in the qur'an whether it be logical or illogical to me at the time, idk dude but u have a inner soul and u should listen to it sometimes.
@silveren777 well honestly now that i know what god has ordained for me when i do something good i feel very good in the soul and when i do something bad i feel like shit for the rest of the day. i honestly cant speak when i was an atheist because i was too ignorant to listen and i smoked alot of weed so i cant remeber. but logically speaking if i cared at the time i dont think my parents would have hated me and i wouldnt have been a pothead with the idc attitude, etc etc
@silveren777 u seem pretty intelligent one of the only athesits i could talk to without getting insulted on every comment. im sorry but idea of no god just makes no sense to me bro my reasons. i do not follow faith blindly i have the things that reinforce my beliefs like the miracles of the qur'an. just try reading the qur'an and see where u go from their.
And I found the claim of objective morality from religion is that the punishments commanded in the Books are, according to many person today, outdated and even crual.
Even the disasters and sickness from Nature makes us greatly doubt the claim that God is All-Good by essence.
Wait a second.... do objective morality even exist on the first place? Tzortis baselessly assume there is when he play his rhetoric game by asking who think it's objectively good to kill a baby.
@silveren777 nah their not cruel. they act a deterrant. in liberalism crime is facilitaed that is why their are over 2 million crimes a year in the us. see liberal want this utopian society, where their are no crimes and punishments. if u study read through some work of jewish historians who lived under sharia in spain. they said in 100 years their was only 14 crimes that resulted in the punishment of death. and in order for punishment of death their are very strict guidelines in sharia....
Good but that's still applied. And as a deterant, if think they create fear in people heart, and make them act good only to avoid the great punishment. i'm not talking about death punishement after death crime, but things like hand chopping for stealing.
That's why utopy can't be realized, because of its implications.
@silveren777 but dude its a deterrant. man stealing is such a ugly act, it deserves an ugly punishment. but in islam if someone steals because he had no food and he wasnt stealing out of greed, he can be excused and given food and a home from the sharia court.
@silveren777 the sharia courts receives the money from charity. which is by sharia law only 2.5%.. in christianity its 10% but then again the bible has been changed many times by man, so i wouldnt doubt if it was less than that before.
Respond to this video... that is a christian claim that god is all good all loving. we muslims love god and arehis servants as he is man kinds creator, but he is all wise and has reasons for the things he does. but if anybody dies in a natural disaster they are granted paradise.
Infinite mercy and ultimate Wisdom require goodness so you cannot say God in islam isn't All-God
What are these reasons for these disasters? If it's the "the Lord acts in unscrutable ways", then i don't buy it.
And afterwards , you still claim that He is still wise?
Paradise? But that doesn't justify the horrible death of a person. It could be interpreted as a excuse to reassure oneself in face of a world apprently incompatible with God's perfect attribute.
@silveren777 yes he is all god. but said before "all good". he is all just, but the things that heppen in this world people say god is bad how can he do that. but like u said he is the all wise he does things that we know not. lol see ur associating perfection with "all good". things happen for the reasons he appoints. i mean i hope hamza can explain it better.
But that's the very problem: how do you know that apparent suffering and evil in nature have a reason we don't know but that is compatible with God perfect wisdom?
There is a contradiction, if you don't know, then you can't determine whether it's evil or not, except by a leap of faith.
In short, you're merely making what we may call an ad hoc hypothesis.
@silveren777 no without god it cant exist. animals dont care when they kill their babies at times of starvation because they need to survive. and our objective morality comes from what god has sent us in the 3 books. torah bible and qur'an.
So what? We can postulate nature brought a brain that has the ability to be both intelligent and sociable, from that we deduce the better way to survive is to help each other.
Look, even animal which are accused of moral indifference shows sometimes strange behaviour:
they adopt species differrent to their own, they are altruist, and so on...
@silveren777 ofcourse that is when u are lame or part lame(retarded). like i watched this thing on animal planet. where a tiger fostered a baby deer. to the point where the tiger nearly starved to death, because if it left the baby to go hunt other food other tigers would snatch it up. so it came to a point where the tiger got very weak and could barely live so it killed the baby deer to live. i mean thats abnormal it nearly killed itself. like a retarded person cant really help its self in life
@silveren777 well u have "humane" punishments now a days and crimes go on more than it ever would under sharia. people lived in peace and happiness under sharia.including jews and christians.
@silveren777 w.e kid we arent gonna come to an agreement because in the end ur views dont answer my questions. but nice talking inshllah allah can open ur heart to islam. peace .
lol why dont u look up the scientists from the 1960's who have phd in their studies and have written many book in their fields. they did a four year examination of the qur'an. and said everything the qur'an states agrees 100% yes 100% with modern science. and then u got these people like capn ordinary who believe with their bit of schooling their gonna prove a perfected book wrong. 500 scientific facts in the qur'an none contradict modern science...
heavens have two meanings in quran "janat" (paradise) and "samawat" (skies). god used two different meaning for heavens. And u just stated a few scientific facts that r found in quran there are much more that wernt even thought of before the prophet mohammed. And the earth is shaped like an ostrich egg because of its mountains and its not exactly spherical
Indeed, but as a PROLATE spheroid. This is little adective leads to an obivous difference in shape, if you have a 3D representation of all kinds of spheroids.
No, that was interpreted as 'egg-shaped earth' AFTER we discovered our planet was a slightly squashed sphere, which make this 'prediction' doubtful. As others said, an egg is generally a prolate spheroid, whereas our planet is an oblate one.
Conclusion: some greeks scientists (wihtout REinterpretation!) thought the Earth is spherical. they won!
I already know this list. What they are praising is actually mainly an interpretation selected deliberately to fit with modern science. Also, some of them show a strange ignorance: for instance the scientist that claims nobody could know skin is associated with pain; a primitive person, by burning himself could have noticed that.
Dr.Alfred Kröner states ancient didn't know about modern cosmology to say earth and heaven have a common origin (refering to verse 21/30).
I disagree. The idea in this verse is a separation of 'heavens' and 'earth'... but history tells us this very concept was present in many mythologies, from egyptian to chinese ones.
u have specific one book of law, u dont follow something, u think life is empty, then y dont u find answers of your unanswered questions?
u r grading to minorities which even are not sure or have authenticity but how easily u r ignoring the so many signs QURAN gave u earlier.... atleast u should grade them to some extent?
i don't have a precise book of law, if it's not the one i created for myself. again,
life may be empty, but it's up to you to give it a sense, a meaning.
On the contrary, i did consider the argument (or signs) you gave, but after studying them, I concluded they are not so conclusive, and even fallacious sometimes.
and indeed many existential questions remain unanswered to me, but i don't worry about them, because we don't know on the 1st place if they are really answerable.
The chiefs who the disbelieved among his people said: "We see you but a man like ourselves, nor do we see any follow you but the meanest among us and they (too) followed you without thinking. And we do not see in you any merit above us, in fact we think you are liars."
right now u may be in this frame of mind... but if y r supporting an empty life if suppose u have no objective?
@silveren777 the quran describes the embryo as a leech in its frist stage which sucks blood. The embryo does exactly that in its first stages, yet it is smaller than a grain of wheat. How did the greeks figure that out? killing a pregnant women, before they even knew she was pregnant? Technology at that time couldn't have possibly documented that. I will admit though the Quran doesn't agree with science on many things.
The embryo doesn't ressemble a leach in the first stages, or maybe it does with a little imagination. other people think it looks like a bean or a tadpole.
As to the big bang
The first one mentions the first expansion of the matter in the early universe (i.e. the big bang)
The second one could be a reference to how atoms clump together and form molecules and molecules clump together to make microscopic materials and so on and so forth.
SELongB 1 month ago
You cannot translate Quraan and the analyze it by delving into every detail, to delve into every detail analyze it in arabic because Arabic is not only the hardest language but also the one with the most terms and complexity
TJTheProud 2 months ago
Images: The Internet
haha
Serpico261 3 months ago
its not perfectly round shaped, but it's not egg shaped either. it's pumpkin shaped.
df393 3 months ago
@R0YB0T
Mohammad when he got married , the first wive she was 40 years old ~!!!!
and he was 25 years old ~!!!
so , would you please open your mind little bit ^?
MrMotamrd 4 months ago
extended in the quran refers to the expanding earth theory not to flat earth . the quran as always was the first to announce it .
lahoucine66 4 months ago
@lahoucine66
actually; the quranic account of Earth expansion is supposed to describe is a past event,
and expanding Earth theory is rejected by most scientists.
silveren777 3 months ago
@silveren777 expanding earth is rejected by most scientists but many others have been advocating it since darwin & a lot of them r against pangea . it is more credible than pangea & makes sense .
expanding earth theory talks about expansion made 60million years ago . quran was reveled only 1400 years ago . so if quran used the past verb ''extended'' , is correct . moreover , satellites didn't record no new extention of earth in late years , so quran is right : earth extended & no more extends .
lahoucine66 3 months ago
@lahoucine66
How many compared to the whole scientific community? If their new hypothesis were valuable it'd be been considered by geology.
As this hypothesis is made to explain continental drift, the expansion is supposed to be an ongoing process. Contrary to plate tectonics, that hypothesis doesn't predict orogenesis.
silveren777 3 months ago
I can't wait too see your faces on the Day of Judgment
1AZCRAZ 5 months ago
bala bala bala
FATHERM 5 months ago
LOOOOOOL who made this video HAS NO CLUE ABOUT ARABIC LANGUAGE KAAAAK XD
StrongerThanYsterday 5 months ago
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The koran: a vain and futile attempt to clothe an otherwise naked and empty philosophy in some semblance of scientific credibility by invoking itself as its own written authority!
becharev 5 months ago
'Science' in the koran have basis in the works of civilizations, predating the koran and muhammed with thousands of years.
I mention Greeks, Romans, Chinese, Egyptians, babylonians.
I suggest you read about it.
Could muhammad read or not ? He could hear, and see. So copying knowledge from others where not hard. :)
BelieveNoGod 6 months ago
@BelieveNoGod Um Arabs back then didn't communicate with these civilizations, plus neither all those civilizations had any clue that earth was rounded(yes if u read it in arabic danaha means rounded, plus in arabic the worded egg shaped doesn't need to be oval), nor had any clue how the human was born.
supermiro07 5 months ago
@supermiro07 Do you need contact with the 'author' to learn something ?
NOPE.
What I'm saying is that most of the 'science' in the quran was known long before it was assembled into that black book you call 'holy'. And most of those civilizations made long travels. For trade and exploring.
Knowledge, and inventions spread back in those days too.
Look up on the stars, the moon, and the other planets. Wouldn't they understand the Earth would have the same shape ?
BelieveNoGod 5 months ago
@supermiro07 Mohammad had many wives and there was little no pre-natal care 1400 + years ago.
It is a hell of a lot more likely that he and many people back then witnessed a lot of miscarriages and got their ideas from there.
Either that or you can be a naive fool and believe that he spoke to an angel in a cave....
R0YB0T 5 months ago
i would only focus your mentioned point that Aristotle first discovered that earth is spherical.O.K.now tell me why upto the recent time this verse of Quran has been translated into otherwise form,that is in " HE expanded wide expanse " .If Muhammad supposedly coppied it from Aristotle then he should tell his companion that this verse mean spherical, just to impress that he has a vast knowledge of the universe. but this verse was passed on in otherwise form.it proves that Arab were not aware .
yoursincerefriend 6 months ago
The way is not to react violently to anyone's views... Everyone has the freedom of thought and holds the authority to think believe and act to whatever he/she feels like... The real thing is to ask yourself free your mind from conspiracies and make best use of your mind...Nothing is without reason and the points mentioned in video are the person's views and an intellectual can simply tell that earth is not ball shaped it's 21ST century and everyone know its ellipsoidal that closely resembles egg
alimaken786 6 months ago
The shape of earth and moon reflecting light has been there since beginning of their existnce. It was only a matter of time when God revealed such info in quran to prove his existence. this guy is implying that we copied aristotle. no arab even knew who aristotle and his theories were so how could they copy him? What about all the other dozens and dozens of scientific facts in the quran? like embryology? mountains having pegs or roots? earth orbiting the sun not other way around and etc..
Mojoaglo 7 months ago
@Mojoaglo
"It was only a matter of time when God revealed such info in quran to prove his existence."
Claims of hidden meanings unveiled after the fact are pretty common, and known for making people confuse selective interpretations with intended meanings.
"no arab even knew who aristotle and his theories were..."
Supposing few of them somehow knew his works is more parcimonious than the explanation by divine revelation.
silveren777 7 months ago
LOL THIS is why you non muslims dont understnd anything. You just simply take things out of context. For example, about the earth being an egg shaped. If you read the quran the word used for the shape of egg in arabic refers to AN OSTRICH EGG-- WHICH IS LIKE THE SHAPE OF THE EARTH. The quran isn't just talking about any egg since that way it could be a chicken egg, dinosaur egg, or crocodile egg etc. Its talking about an ostrich egg!!
Mojoaglo 7 months ago
@Mojoaglo
BTW the Earth doesn't share ressemblance to an ostrich egg. The flattening factor of the latter is 86.6% near a sphere, whereas that of the Earth is 99.66%, indeed reducing our planet to the size of an ostrich egg, one would hardly detect any flattening.
And let's remember, Earth=OBLATE spheroid, ostrich egg=PROLATE spheroid
The arabic verb "daha" rather points to the levelled area made by an ostrich to lay its egg, not its eggs themselves.
silveren777 7 months ago
BIBLE=CONTAIN ALL THE SCIENCE KNOW FROM THE GREEK AND HIS DESCENDANT THE ROMAN AND SO THE BABYLONIAN , THE BIBLE HAS BEEN RE WRITTEN BY THE HISTORIAN AND THE SCIENTIFIC AND THE PORN PRODUCER ^^ AT THAT TIME AND THATS WHY THE KORAN COME TO CORRECT ALL THIS WRONG SCIENCE THAT PEOPLE AT THAT TIME THINK TO BE RIGHT EVEN IF THERE IS PART RIGHT BUT THE OTHER PART IS WRONG
Cableethernet33000 7 months ago
that are in koran , they dont mention the 3 different period of embryon life ect.......now other thing , astronomy , greeks believe that the earth was sperical , koran dont even mention earth spearical , but they say also that the univers if finish its not grown , humble law , and they said that sun is the center of univers and the earth DONT MOVE IN THE UNIVERSE , big mistake , and so on on , AND ALL THIS SCIENCE IS IN THE BIBLE , IF YOU WANT TO KNOW THE GREEK BABYLONIAN ROMAN SCIENCE
Cableethernet33000 7 months ago
OR OTHER THINGS for example , another thing , ptolymee told that the eye send light by itself and not refract the light come from outside , no it send is own light and say the THE MOON AS THE SUN SEND LIGHTS AND ITS IN THE BIBLE , thats the ptolyme works and the first to say that this was wrong was a persian scientist in 10 century to say this cant be truth but this is in the KORAN , now other in the field of embryoly , everytime i heard that greeks ........... but greeks didnt know a lot of
Cableethernet33000 7 months ago
LOL what you are doing is saying that greeks and babylonian tell some scientific things but made a lot untruth which are not in the koran , all in the koran cant be demonstrate to be wrong , first thing that i can say , is the fact that greeks speak about atom , wrong , the koran say it has more particules than the "atom" , and this atom can be broken and the energy be used such for the atomic bomb , IN FACT THE GREEKS AND OTHER SCIENTIST DONT SPEAK ABOUT ATOM THEY SPEAK ABOUT A SPEAK OF DUST
Cableethernet33000 7 months ago
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The koran: a vain and futile attempt to clothe an otherwise empty philosophy in some semblance of scientific credibility by invoking itself as its own written authority!
sardanapolis 7 months ago
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Koran: a vain and futile attempt to clothe an otherwise empty philosophy in some semblance of scientific credibility by invoking itself as its own written authority!
becharev 7 months ago
"Try to understand the general point being made and it will make sense, guys. It's simply a metaphor for the earth's non-perfect sphereness."
If Allah is in control of everything, he could have made sure that virtually all ostrich eggs, no matter what, would always perfectly match the dimensions of Earth.
He could have made the verse match the reality absolutely perfectly, instead of a total fail on prolate vs. oblate spheroid and 13%+ error on the diameter.
64malek 7 months ago
@64malek You forgot to take into consideration that the Quran was written 1400 years ago, and had to be put in terms that the whole population could understand in that time and the times to come... It was thought at the time the earth was FLAT.. not even spherical, just FLAT.. The Quran proves otherwise much earlier than Christopher Columbus... You claim "13%+" error and you're small inconsistency, but how is it you came to know these facts? By people discovering them much after the Quran did
Xshado2 7 months ago
brother u need more research .....
Numeyo 8 months ago
now science clam that sun have its own axe in which he move and its already explain secondly u talk about earth shape brother when u where born u was a baby and know nothing and now u r grown man so if u change in 20 to 50 age y not the earth it can also change with respect of time ///
Numeyo 8 months ago
@Numeyo
Yes, science knows that the sun has an axis.Yes, it rotates on that. However, the Koran made no reference to this and you pointing it out is, well, pointless.
Gravity is a theory. However, because this is science a theory is the highest amount of weight a idea can have behind it. Gravity dictates the Earth's shape. Gravity in this condition is constant. It does not change. Because of that it's impossible for the Earth's shape to change. Especially not in 20 to 50 years.
IKillBabyKittensLOL 7 months ago
Egg-shaped : rounded, hard outside, liquid inside.
btw, that is not heaven and earth, but sky (object, like : stars, moon, sun, meteor) and earth. learn arabic first dude !
Please, dont speak if you dont know the meaning ok? make you look like an idiot.
DannyTheSeeker 9 months ago
hehe illogical ,, when muslims says that Quran is the book of science ,, but when ever he talked about science it is 100% proves,, i mean to say ,illitrate prophet who even cant read and write his own name clearly is told these facts even if it was invented before 1400 years ,,
amirzubairmughal 9 months ago
ACCORDING TO MUSLIMS THE QURAN TALKS ABOUT THE THERORY OF THE BIG BANG IN 21:30 WHERE IT SAYS THAT "THE HEAVEN AND THE EARTH FORMED A COMPACT MASS THAT WE SEPARATED" BUT WAIT A MINUTE, ACCORDING TO SCIENTIST THE EARTH EXISTED MILLIONS OF YEARS AFTER THE BIG BANG. IT COULDN'T HAVE BEEN THERE DURING THE BIG BANG, AND BESIDES THE QURAN SAYS IN 41:10-12 THE OPPOSITE, THAT GOD CREATED THE EARTH FIRST AND THEN THE HEAVEN. SO IT IS IMPOSSIBLE
DictaduraNo123 10 months ago 2
@DictaduraNo123 an excellent point
manusnadh 9 months ago
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The quran has nothing scientific. 67:5 says that "stars are missiles to shoot the devil" and not what they are, huge suns. In 41:12 it talks about 7 heavens, the old false belief that the universe was divided in 7 heavens. Today muslims try to say that "it is only referring to the 7 layers of the atmosphere", but 41:12 says also that "the stars are located in the closest heaven"...PFFFFFFFF! So it can't be the atmosphere. LOL..Too close
DictaduraNo123 10 months ago
some mistakes in the last investigation
AsemKhanfar 10 months ago
i think you stupid
shamina2011 10 months ago
capn ordinary doesnt state how many false thing aristotle came up with and the people at that time. their aer some things that people knew even before the qur'an but those people also knew many scientific facts(back then) that contradict moder science today. so how did the qur'an manage to pin point 500 correct ones and not any of the false ones of those times. dont tell me it was a coincidence..... 500 times!
theproudONE92 11 months ago
@theproudONE92
they are numerous possible interpretations and the Quran doesn't give enough detail on a subject ,which decrease the odd of making wrong statements.
Regarding the claim the Quran doesn't copy the error of ancients scientists, i wouldn't be so certain:
some verses may be compatible with ancient ideas like those of solid sky and geocentrism, and it claims also the Earth and all the stars would die on the same day (ressurection), which clearly contradicts cosmology.
silveren777 11 months ago
@silveren777 look bro its not a science book it contains science in it but the point of it is to be a manual for human life. the fact that it contains that infomation written from an illiterate man is miraculous. even if a literate man wrote it , it would still be miraculous, theirs not a single contradiction in it bro. im tryna be polite but people expect god to smack them and say believe. If that was the case everyone would believe, the point of life is it is a test to determine where....
theproudONE92 11 months ago
@theproudONE92
If it contained science, why do people wait till modern science discovered things in order to find scientific allusions? That method foreshadows postdiction.
The illiteracy of Muhammad doesn't prove there wasn't anyone who wrote the Quran for him.
silveren777 11 months ago
@silveren777 im not sure what ur asking but i will try to anser it as best as i can. its like arabs back then always said the qur'an had many mysteries in it because they didnt understand some things. like how the see has underwater currents and different depths of darkness. they thought this was a mystery because they didnt have diving suits that could reach those depths but the qur'an states it. so as modern science progresses it uncovers more things in the qur'an....
theproudONE92 11 months ago
@theproudONE92
Well, alleged prophecies from Nostradamus are also full of meanings and mysterious before the fact, does it mean that Nostradamus really talk about future but hid the miraculous statement?
The alleged scientific verses also have unscientific meanings, so it require a leap of faith to choose the scientific meaning and discard the rest to prove the Quran is scientifically miraculous.
silveren777 11 months ago
@silveren777 well now man has developed a vast and precise vocabulary for everything they want to describe. the qur'an was written in time when man didnt have that, and those words are what people and children best understood. because the book is meant to be able to be read by all ages at that time that were able to read.
theproudONE92 11 months ago
@theproudONE92
Even with limited vocabulary you can make clear descriptions.
You're begging the question: the argument 'meant to be for any generations' doesn't prove the Quran implies we would find new theories replacing the ones at its time, some could aslo understand this in a non-evolving science viewpoint.
Alleged prophecies can be also used for all epochs, but does it really mean the mirauclous meaning were intended by its author?
silveren777 11 months ago
@silveren777 yes. moses(pbuh) perfomed miracles. jesus(pbuh) performed miracles. muhammed(pbuh) mriacle is the everlasting qur'an god sent to him through revelations. its a miracle sent to man so their is some evidence behind why he should believe to prove their must be a higher power. if u wanna go tit for tat then u do that then keep filling ur head with these doubts. ur only hurting urself.
theproudONE92 11 months ago
@theproudONE92
Read you argument again, you assume the Quran is miraculous to prove it contains evidence of miracles. Not a good reasoning:(
silveren777 11 months ago
@silveren777 i will give you a referal. study the case the famous french archeologist Dr. Maurice Bucaille did in the 90's on the mummy in egypt. hes now muslim. u see many famous scientist have converted to islam those were the open minded individials. but then theirs little cats like you who think they know everything in the world. please realize how close minded that is.
theproudONE92 11 months ago
@theproudONE92
Ah i gets the definition, open-mindness is argeeing with my belief, isn't it?
No, argument ad verecundiam doesn't work on me, you forget to mention all the scientists who consider the Quran and science thesis as useless and far-fetched for the same reasons as mines.
silveren777 11 months ago
@silveren777 yes if it made sense to me i absolutely would. i believe the science part but u trying to tell me we dont have a purpose in this life. and their is no after life and no god, i cant buy. like i said i was you and gone through what ur going through but u havent been to the side with light. all u gotta do is open ur eyes and heart. and yes their those scientists that didnt convert. but if they all did their would be no need for hell.
theproudONE92 11 months ago
@theproudONE92
the last sentence must be clarified. How do you know my mind is closed? So you're telling me i'm a liar when i say i'm not convinced in the sense i did see compelling evidence but i want to reject them?
How do you know we have a purpose created from above?
silveren777 11 months ago
@silveren777 yepp because the man who did the study his analysis coincided with what the qur'an claimed. well from what i have learned from studying islam. i have learned that we are created on this earth for the purpose to worship god. but its upto us if we are going to do it. and between our good and bad deeds determines where we will go in the next life.
theproudONE92 11 months ago
@theproudONE92
This your belief of purpose. Other people see other objectives.
silveren777 11 months ago
@silveren777 ofcourse it doesnt mean u cant carry out normal life.. just keep god in ur remembrance by worship.
theproudONE92 11 months ago
@silveren777
That would be "argumentum ad verecundiam" but that not my point.
I couldn't agree with you more.
I keep reading because it is so damn funny :)
theproudONE92 logic is the equivalent of teaching building chariots made from clouds in an auto-mechanics class.
KLSeba 8 months ago
@theproudONE92
What Maurice Bucaille discover in egypt hasn othing to do with the Pharaoh of Moses times.
Just because he found salt doesn't mean he has been drowned, indeed egyptians used a kind of salt called natron to preserve dead bodies from natural decay.
silveren777 11 months ago
@silveren777 he proved that it had salt and it was a drowned victim. i mean i think he knows that field better thna both of us and if the evidence wasnt clear enough he wouldnt have converted so by all means continue with ur ideology its of 0 benefit to urself my friend.
theproudONE92 11 months ago
@theproudONE92
Just search Ramses II on the net, you'll see the claim of his drowning appear... on religious websites, whereas scientific sources doesn't support it: modern historians think he merely died from sickness. are they less credible than you Bucaille?
silveren777 11 months ago
@silveren777 yes the bible claims it but theirs is different i forgot what it said. but the qur'an has the correct info on it. i mean idk dude a historian works on hearsay a archeologist works with evidence. so u choose
theproudONE92 11 months ago
@theproudONE92
Nonsense! historians do use the finding of archeology, not only 'hearsay'.
silveren777 11 months ago
@silveren777 i dont doubt it. but who would the historian be getting the information from. and if dr. maurice bucaille did the study on and hes the archeologist. where did the change of story being with...?
theproudONE92 11 months ago
@theproudONE92
Merely from analysis of Ramses II's body.
Such analysis shows the most likely cause of its death was sickness, look at wiki for details.
silveren777 11 months ago
@silveren777 wikipedia is not where u go for information. anyways kid like i said im busy. Salam (peace)
theproudONE92 11 months ago
@theproudONE92
If such information are there WITH their sources, there is nothing doubtful.
silveren777 11 months ago
@silveren777
lol
KLSeba 8 months ago
Respond to this video... ... just like people thought the verse where it says the moon was split in half was false. and then nasa proved it right in the 90's.
theproudONE92 11 months ago
Respond to this video... u will spend ur eternal life in. Even though god has mercy and eventually everyone makes it out of hell and into heaven. please trust me i was the most stubborn atheist bro. But islam is the truth man. i mean isnt it kinda obvious how animals have been around just as long as we have if not longer, and they havent even formed a precise form of communication. or even the most primitive invention like the wheel. god gave them their natural abilities...
theproudONE92 11 months ago
Respond to this video... and he gave humans their amazing intellect. u look at an animal in the wild that thing will never be depressed (unless it is caged). Because its not meant to be thinking about death or after life. we have intellect to think about these things and to take heed( to not be careless) bro.
theproudONE92 11 months ago
@theproudONE92
How do you know it's God who gave us our ability to reason? Your sentence is full of uncertain pressuppositions.
silveren777 11 months ago
Respond to this video... i invested my time into trying to enlighten you, but its you who has to make the choice. if u have nothing positive to say back then save it, im not interested.
theproudONE92 11 months ago
@theproudONE92
Ok i see, you're only there to preach, but you don't want to hear counter-arguments (if that's what you mean by nothing positive), aren't you?
silveren777 11 months ago
@silveren777 nah its only because i have had many arguments on youtube and its such a waste of time dude. because if its not meant to be no matter how much info i bring to them they just refuse to believe their is a god. so i just stopped arguing with people., if u dont want to benefit urself thats fine by me, but my duty is to try. because i dont want u to be a witness against me that i didnt bring the message to you. its just obvious. why don tanimals have a frontal lobe?...
theproudONE92 11 months ago
Respond to this video... its the gland in our brain where our reasoning comes from.. animals dont contain one.. soo idk bro that choice is urs.
theproudONE92 11 months ago
@theproudONE92
why don't animal have reasoning ability in their brain?
Ask a biologist.
silveren777 11 months ago
@silveren777 i honestly dont need a biologist to tell me why, because that is a theory. and don take theory as fact. everything in the qur'an is a proven fact, so please lift the veil off ur eyes unplug ur ears and open ur heart. You dont want to be sorry. and dont tell me im brainwashed, i believe my dude and i hope one day god can open ur heart to the truth. salam (peace)
theproudONE92 11 months ago
@theproudONE92
So you're telling me that, to explain the lack of reasoning in animals, saying "God did it!" is better than a scientific theory? The latter is based upon facts, even if it's not certain, it's epistemologically better than the former which is based on ignorance or faith.
I'm open minded, but not to strange or baseless ideas.
silveren777 11 months ago
@silveren777 no dude im telling u from my perspective its kind of obvious we humans are meant for something other than this world alone. Lol that is such a paradox. u said ur "open minded" but yet u have a preconceived notion on the qur'an. thats as ignorant as it gets. so we can end this conversation because things are clear, ive talked to many of you's before. Salam (peace)
theproudONE92 11 months ago
@theproudONE92
No, it's not obivous we are meant to something that transcends this world.
Preconcieved notion? You claim there are quranic miracles, no? then prove it, otherwise don't charge skeptics with ignorance and narrow-mindness because that's really dishonest.
This is what i thought, you're there for preaching without considering other counter-argument seriously; that's not the definition of debates. and I aslo debated with people like you.
silveren777 11 months ago
@silveren777 man nobody sat down and did that for me. go on google or youtube and look them up. and how am i being narrow minded and dishonest dude? but u see i was a damn atheist but when i said i was open minded i really was. u have shut ur brain up and dont allow the possibility god to exist. this isnt christianity or judiasm u dont juts have to believe. we have evidence to enforce the faith. but u can do the research bro. sorry im doing hw.
theproudONE92 11 months ago
@theproudONE92
Ah... you're describing someone you don't know: i do consider the existence of God as possible but not as actually, hence i'm not a strong atheist.
I've already seen those evidence, and obviously i don't find them convincing, while some of them are interesting.
silveren777 11 months ago
@silveren777 i dont know him persoanlly. but i did read and watch his story. i have yet to read his book insh'allah. but yea i understand thats better than i was. i would argue with family and strangers that religion is man made and it was made to control man etc. etc. i also got in to the humanist belief. but that hole (not to be cliche) wasnt filled. since i had that ideology i got into alot of drugs cuz i just didnt care about life also the fact i was really despressed...
theproudONE92 11 months ago
@theproudONE92
Ideology? Absence of belief in a purpose from above is an ideology?
BTW i'm sorry for your bad experience.
silveren777 11 months ago
Respond to this video... because of that ideology. sweden norway and denmark lead the world with most amount of atheists. which they brag about. but what they dont brag about is they lead in the world for the most amount of suicides along with drug and alcohol abuse. do u see the correlation there?
theproudONE92 11 months ago
@theproudONE92
Such a correlation is naive. a lack of belief of objective and predetermined purpose (like the one sent by God) doesn't stop people from inventing their own purpose, fixing their own objectives; since we're free entities.
silveren777 11 months ago
@silveren777 lol such a correlation is naive? i think ur better at coming up with big words than using ur logic and reasoning. if it was just denmark with highest amount of death after the amount of atheists then i would say its still too early to draw a correlation. but the top 3 atheist countries are followed by the top 3 suicide rates. if that it not plain and obvious then please kid carry on with ur life i got a lot of hw im in the middle of. Salam(peace)
theproudONE92 11 months ago
@theproudONE92
I did use logic and reasoning, and surprise, surprise you didn't consider the explanation i give you.
Also you pressupose atheism is monolithic like a particular religion.
silveren777 11 months ago
@silveren777 no monolithic religion involves the belief in one god. and atheism is a belief , the belief that u dont believe their is a god. and this world is. and matter is everything and the only thing that exists.
theproudONE92 11 months ago
@theproudONE92
Don't confuse monolithic and monotheism. Your definition of atheism was pretty laughable "belief you don't believe in something"..think just one second, your sentence doesn't make sense, if you don't belieff anything BY DEFINITION you have no belief.
About the rest, you're confusing aslo atheism with metaphysical naturalism; you can be an atheist and think it's possible supernatural exists.
silveren777 11 months ago
@silveren777 lol thats why atheist make me laugh. they go on living life preaching how they dont believe in something. thats the sad but true definition of it.
theproudONE92 11 months ago
@theproudONE92
I don't think it's the true definition, since atheists can have beliefs (even though the object of their belief can't be religious). Hence, nothing sad...
silveren777 11 months ago
@silveren777 yea i see. but keep in mind no matter how much evidence comes to some people they still wont believe. if the qur'an had modern scientific words they would still find something to try and talk down on the qur'an. something stressed in the qur'an is yyour freedom of choice to believe in god, it is you in the end accountable for that choice. so i hope u maybe learned something as i tried my best to help u realize the mentality and approah u have with islam. take care and Salam(peace).
theproudONE92 11 months ago
@theproudONE92
Never come to your mind that those alleged evidence people seemingly reject may be unconvincing and even sometimes fallacious?
If Quran were CLEARLY scientifically advanced, that'd be known and there wouldn't be anything for denying such a miraculous aspect.
silveren777 11 months ago
@silveren777 man u dont know what kind of world u live in. hopefully god can enlighten u on that subject..
theproudONE92 11 months ago
@theproudONE92
the only thing i know is that
It's easy to say i lack knowledge on something, instead of bringing arguments...
You cannot disguise your belief as an objective knowledge.
silveren777 11 months ago
@silveren777 ok well in that case if u half 7 and a hlaf hours. please go watch "the arrivals" its a documentary. please i beg u to watch and let me know exactly what u think and tell me what u refute. its on youtube theirs 52 parts of it. please watch.
theproudONE92 11 months ago
@theproudONE92
Don't see what's the link between our discussion and such conspiracy theories on The Arrivals. Anyway, one of its ideas that has more to do with what we debate is the one that atheism and the theory of evolution are tools invented by satanist societies in order to extermine the belief in God in people mind; this is so patently ludicrous that it wouldn't need to be refuted.
silveren777 10 months ago
@silveren777 i mean dude its only a theory its not a fact but they drill it in ur head in high school like it is a fact. why dont watch a debate with hamza tzortzis and peter cave a famous atheist. or rick lewis, rick is agnostic but has some good arguments. but try peter cave first. and thanks for checking out the arrivals i respect that. did u watch it all?
theproudONE92 10 months ago
@theproudONE92
Evolution has been observed through mutations, and it's not unreasonable to conclude that an accumulation of mutations make a new spiece. A theory doesn't always mean something
speculative.
I look the debate you talk about. His argument are well-known and not difficult to be doubted:
he makes a non-sequitur when he said the existence of objective morality implies a God; why couldn't it be like a knowledge just like logic that could be eternal?
silveren777 10 months ago
@silveren777 i dont not get what ur question is asking. u said logic is eternal? can u reprase
theproudONE92 10 months ago
@silveren777
Or last but not least, morality is God's essence, the one can't exist without the other.
Unfortunately this view isn't spotless; the main critic is has is its useless practical aspect:
God command X because it's good, why because God is All-Good.
As you can see, that doesn't explain what makes something good as it's supposed to do; instead, it merely defines it by implying it.
silveren777 10 months ago
@theproudONE92
The God morality cointains also many issues that are highlighted by Euthrypo's dilemma (i'd say trilemma):
Either morality is God's arbitrary will: in this view, he could even command the killing of babies and such command would become Good by definition. I let you see if that's tenable...
Or God can't command babies killing because He relies on a morality that's eternal like Him, but in this case we could bypass God, and determine it by our reason.
silveren777 10 months ago
@silveren777 i see ur point. but in islam anything of a command is just logical. well then one might say ur logic is then ur own natural morality, but it stems back to religion again. but u see in nazis times everyone loved hitler (few didnt) because the consesus at the time was its justifiable to kill jews. so u see mans own "morality" sometimes is really not good even though at the time it could have made sense to kill jews etc. i hope i didnt lose u on that one.
theproudONE92 10 months ago
@theproudONE92
No, that doesn't make sense what you say: if God's moral rule are logical, then since humans have the potential to grasp logic alone, why religion would be needed?
silveren777 10 months ago
@silveren777 yea i didnt really make sense their. but idk man like u kno when u do something messed up u feel shit inside. but when u do good u feel good. everything that would make me feel good or bad is in the qur'an whether it be logical or illogical to me at the time, idk dude but u have a inner soul and u should listen to it sometimes.
theproudONE92 10 months ago
@theproudONE92
So our inner bad feel help to determine if we did something morally wrong?
This is beautiful, but i don't think it's common to all humans.
Believe me, some of them would feel bad only IF they did somehing morally wrong and feel good after their crimes.
Even if such an idea were factual, that could conceivable explained naturalistically.
silveren777 10 months ago
@silveren777 well honestly now that i know what god has ordained for me when i do something good i feel very good in the soul and when i do something bad i feel like shit for the rest of the day. i honestly cant speak when i was an atheist because i was too ignorant to listen and i smoked alot of weed so i cant remeber. but logically speaking if i cared at the time i dont think my parents would have hated me and i wouldnt have been a pothead with the idc attitude, etc etc
theproudONE92 10 months ago
Respond to this video... yea ur right but thats why we need guidance so we know what is good and bad.
theproudONE92 10 months ago
@silveren777 u seem pretty intelligent one of the only athesits i could talk to without getting insulted on every comment. im sorry but idea of no god just makes no sense to me bro my reasons. i do not follow faith blindly i have the things that reinforce my beliefs like the miracles of the qur'an. just try reading the qur'an and see where u go from their.
theproudONE92 10 months ago
@theproudONE92
And I found the claim of objective morality from religion is that the punishments commanded in the Books are, according to many person today, outdated and even crual.
Even the disasters and sickness from Nature makes us greatly doubt the claim that God is All-Good by essence.
Wait a second.... do objective morality even exist on the first place? Tzortis baselessly assume there is when he play his rhetoric game by asking who think it's objectively good to kill a baby.
silveren777 10 months ago
@silveren777 nah their not cruel. they act a deterrant. in liberalism crime is facilitaed that is why their are over 2 million crimes a year in the us. see liberal want this utopian society, where their are no crimes and punishments. if u study read through some work of jewish historians who lived under sharia in spain. they said in 100 years their was only 14 crimes that resulted in the punishment of death. and in order for punishment of death their are very strict guidelines in sharia....
theproudONE92 10 months ago
@theproudONE92
Good but that's still applied. And as a deterant, if think they create fear in people heart, and make them act good only to avoid the great punishment. i'm not talking about death punishement after death crime, but things like hand chopping for stealing.
That's why utopy can't be realized, because of its implications.
silveren777 10 months ago
@silveren777 but dude its a deterrant. man stealing is such a ugly act, it deserves an ugly punishment. but in islam if someone steals because he had no food and he wasnt stealing out of greed, he can be excused and given food and a home from the sharia court.
theproudONE92 10 months ago
@theproudONE92
No, nothing stop you from conceiving a better deterrant. Such things is primitive justice...
silveren777 10 months ago
@silveren777 the sharia courts receives the money from charity. which is by sharia law only 2.5%.. in christianity its 10% but then again the bible has been changed many times by man, so i wouldnt doubt if it was less than that before.
theproudONE92 10 months ago
Respond to this video... that is a christian claim that god is all good all loving. we muslims love god and arehis servants as he is man kinds creator, but he is all wise and has reasons for the things he does. but if anybody dies in a natural disaster they are granted paradise.
theproudONE92 10 months ago
@theproudONE92
Infinite mercy and ultimate Wisdom require goodness so you cannot say God in islam isn't All-God
What are these reasons for these disasters? If it's the "the Lord acts in unscrutable ways", then i don't buy it.
And afterwards , you still claim that He is still wise?
Paradise? But that doesn't justify the horrible death of a person. It could be interpreted as a excuse to reassure oneself in face of a world apprently incompatible with God's perfect attribute.
silveren777 10 months ago
@silveren777 yes he is all god. but said before "all good". he is all just, but the things that heppen in this world people say god is bad how can he do that. but like u said he is the all wise he does things that we know not. lol see ur associating perfection with "all good". things happen for the reasons he appoints. i mean i hope hamza can explain it better.
theproudONE92 10 months ago
@theproudONE92
But that's the very problem: how do you know that apparent suffering and evil in nature have a reason we don't know but that is compatible with God perfect wisdom?
There is a contradiction, if you don't know, then you can't determine whether it's evil or not, except by a leap of faith.
In short, you're merely making what we may call an ad hoc hypothesis.
silveren777 10 months ago
@theproudONE92
i don't think tsotsi can explain it, since all known theodicies didn't resolve the contradiction.
silveren777 10 months ago
@silveren777 no without god it cant exist. animals dont care when they kill their babies at times of starvation because they need to survive. and our objective morality comes from what god has sent us in the 3 books. torah bible and qur'an.
theproudONE92 10 months ago
@theproudONE92
So what? We can postulate nature brought a brain that has the ability to be both intelligent and sociable, from that we deduce the better way to survive is to help each other.
Look, even animal which are accused of moral indifference shows sometimes strange behaviour:
they adopt species differrent to their own, they are altruist, and so on...
silveren777 10 months ago
@silveren777 true but thats uncommon and not a natural instinct of an animal.
theproudONE92 10 months ago
@theproudONE92
i didn't say otherwise, however nothing stop you from conceiving a brain having the ability to be less prone to instinct.
silveren777 10 months ago
@silveren777 ofcourse that is when u are lame or part lame(retarded). like i watched this thing on animal planet. where a tiger fostered a baby deer. to the point where the tiger nearly starved to death, because if it left the baby to go hunt other food other tigers would snatch it up. so it came to a point where the tiger got very weak and could barely live so it killed the baby deer to live. i mean thats abnormal it nearly killed itself. like a retarded person cant really help its self in life
theproudONE92 10 months ago
@silveren777 well u have "humane" punishments now a days and crimes go on more than it ever would under sharia. people lived in peace and happiness under sharia.including jews and christians.
theproudONE92 10 months ago
@theproudONE92
Modern justice isn't perfect either but it's less barbaric than cutting hands of stealers.
This is a disproportionate punishment, which base moral on FEAR. FEAR of being cut so i don't steal,
that's what i say, utopic societies can't work without this.
silveren777 10 months ago
@silveren777 w.e kid we arent gonna come to an agreement because in the end ur views dont answer my questions. but nice talking inshllah allah can open ur heart to islam. peace .
theproudONE92 10 months ago
lol why dont u look up the scientists from the 1960's who have phd in their studies and have written many book in their fields. they did a four year examination of the qur'an. and said everything the qur'an states agrees 100% yes 100% with modern science. and then u got these people like capn ordinary who believe with their bit of schooling their gonna prove a perfected book wrong. 500 scientific facts in the qur'an none contradict modern science...
theproudONE92 11 months ago
lol this video cracks me up its full of b.s.
theproudONE92 11 months ago
I dont see the word HEAVEN ,i see the word SKY what are you reading?
englishowl 11 months ago
heavens have two meanings in quran "janat" (paradise) and "samawat" (skies). god used two different meaning for heavens. And u just stated a few scientific facts that r found in quran there are much more that wernt even thought of before the prophet mohammed. And the earth is shaped like an ostrich egg because of its mountains and its not exactly spherical
il9agr17 11 months ago
@il9agr17
Actually, our planet is an oblate spheroid, which is different from egg shape.
silveren777 11 months ago
@silveren777 and an ostrich egg is also shaped as a spheroid
il9agr17 11 months ago
@il9agr17
Indeed, but as a PROLATE spheroid. This is little adective leads to an obivous difference in shape, if you have a 3D representation of all kinds of spheroids.
silveren777 11 months ago
FOR ASTONISHING FACTS, JUST TYPE IN THE BOX :
Top Scientists Comments on Scientific Miracles in the Quran
gulfland 11 months ago
It's as the Creator of heavens and earth Says in His all-wise Book ( meaning):
{ They want to extinguish the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah will perfect His light, although the disbelievers dislike it.}
gulfland 11 months ago
@kirawaseigidesu
No, that was interpreted as 'egg-shaped earth' AFTER we discovered our planet was a slightly squashed sphere, which make this 'prediction' doubtful. As others said, an egg is generally a prolate spheroid, whereas our planet is an oblate one.
Conclusion: some greeks scientists (wihtout REinterpretation!) thought the Earth is spherical. they won!
silveren777 11 months ago
Comment removed
hdx87 1 year ago
@silveren777
search youtube the topic
* [Holy] Quran : Top Scientists Comments on Scientific Miracles in the Quran * # Faith and Science #
sunny7456 1 year ago
@sunny7456
I already know this list. What they are praising is actually mainly an interpretation selected deliberately to fit with modern science. Also, some of them show a strange ignorance: for instance the scientist that claims nobody could know skin is associated with pain; a primitive person, by burning himself could have noticed that.
silveren777 1 year ago
@sunny7456
Dr.Alfred Kröner states ancient didn't know about modern cosmology to say earth and heaven have a common origin (refering to verse 21/30).
I disagree. The idea in this verse is a separation of 'heavens' and 'earth'... but history tells us this very concept was present in many mythologies, from egyptian to chinese ones.
silveren777 1 year ago
@silveren777
see freedom is something separate thing, but u must find answers of your question with justice....?
sunny7456 1 year ago
@silveren777
u have specific one book of law, u dont follow something, u think life is empty, then y dont u find answers of your unanswered questions?
u r grading to minorities which even are not sure or have authenticity but how easily u r ignoring the so many signs QURAN gave u earlier.... atleast u should grade them to some extent?
sunny7456 1 year ago
@sunny7456
i don't have a precise book of law, if it's not the one i created for myself. again,
life may be empty, but it's up to you to give it a sense, a meaning.
On the contrary, i did consider the argument (or signs) you gave, but after studying them, I concluded they are not so conclusive, and even fallacious sometimes.
silveren777 1 year ago
@sunny7456
and indeed many existential questions remain unanswered to me, but i don't worry about them, because we don't know on the 1st place if they are really answerable.
silveren777 1 year ago
@silveren777
Sura 11 - Verse 27
The chiefs who the disbelieved among his people said: "We see you but a man like ourselves, nor do we see any follow you but the meanest among us and they (too) followed you without thinking. And we do not see in you any merit above us, in fact we think you are liars."
right now u may be in this frame of mind... but if y r supporting an empty life if suppose u have no objective?
sunny7456 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@sunny7456
Not exactly, since contrary to the chief you quote from the Quran, i don't call religious people liars.
'but if y r supporting an empty life if suppose u have no objective?'
if a person hasn't found his objectives, yes he'll get a meaningless life to him.
silveren777 1 year ago
Where did muhammad live? where did the greeks live? hmm? did muhammad have any contact with them? nope?
R0kmyS0X 1 year ago
Comment removed
silveren777 1 year ago
@R0kmyS0X
maybe through word of mouth, that's still more likely than supernatural revelation.
silveren777 1 year ago
@silveren777 the quran describes the embryo as a leech in its frist stage which sucks blood. The embryo does exactly that in its first stages, yet it is smaller than a grain of wheat. How did the greeks figure that out? killing a pregnant women, before they even knew she was pregnant? Technology at that time couldn't have possibly documented that. I will admit though the Quran doesn't agree with science on many things.
R0kmyS0X 1 year ago
@R0kmyS0X
The idea that embryo suck blood WAS already present in Galen's works. how did they know that? I don't know.
silveren777 1 year ago
@silveren777 The leech shape?
R0kmyS0X 1 year ago
@R0kmyS0X
The embryo doesn't ressemble a leach in the first stages, or maybe it does with a little imagination. other people think it looks like a bean or a tadpole.
silveren777 1 year ago
@silveren777 k bud, maybe next time you look at a picture, you should find some weed that isn't laced.
R0kmyS0X 1 year ago
@R0kmyS0X
What's the link between embryology and drug?
silveren777 1 year ago
@silveren777 English can't be your first language...
R0kmyS0X 1 year ago
@R0kmyS0X
Good guess...
silveren777 1 year ago
@silveren777
do watch this video
"the arrivals pt 31 (the great deception)
in my point of view atheist are the product of illuminati of freemasons?
sunny7456 1 year ago