Spontaneous Rotation of a Magnet over a High-Temperature Superconductor

[goatcheese1984]

It may explain the solar system...

[ninjaphysics]

Have you ever tried this with an AC field on top of the DC field made by the ring magnet? I wonder if you just put a little coil and varied the AC frequency if you might find some sort of resonance effect.

[jamietti]

I might think that the temperature of the magnet has something to do with it. And the temperature gradient created in the room temperature magnet standing close to the cold nitrogen surface. After the first magnet was stopped rotating, it didn't want to start again. The next magnet with the black mark was warm when brought into the experiment. The temperature gradient (top side of the magnet cooling down slowlier than the side close to the nitrogen) could have something to do with it?

[sn1pe352]

I'm more fascinated with the void forming over the center piece 

[derre98]

Perhaps repeat this experiment in two vacuum chambers. This should eliminate any questions about heat gradients and gas flow. It should keep accelerating if something interesting is happening.

[rattytheraccoon]

Let's figure it out and split the Nobel prize. At least i would like to be in attendance at the award ceremony.

[rattytheraccoon]

So what law does this support? does it model planetary rotation?

, what have you learned ? Is it just the magnetic flows reacting to each other like a couple of gears , or is it just that magnetic fields produce rotation, just like rotating metals produces magnetic fields in earth.Maybe the magnetic domains are really all or most of the atoms spinning in the same direction, and what you see is that spin being transmitted through the magnetic field?

What do you think we can learn from this?

[Greeny992UK]

@TinselKoala Your description says that the magnet will continue to spin 'indefinitely' even when there is no power source applied to the superconductor but it doesn't spin indefinitely as the magnetic field decays over time. If the field doesn't decay over time the motion of the magnet would be indefinite, however, it would also violate the first law of thermodynamics by doing so

[damon908]

i think as the electrons whiz through the center of the toroid they engage on the elctrons from the magnet and create a wave against each other, just like a water wheel. the atoms are more stableised when cold so vibrating is reduced, which in turn increase the ability for the field to have a griping nature. Or could be eddy currents running through the rotating magnets magnetic field. Probably Both lol

[metamaterial]

Huh.  Still think it's magnetocaloric.

[qqcreafis]

put all in a trasparent bottle under n2

[SexyCherry120]

were can i buy it wht store

[TheBerkery]

hit it with 3megaherzt sound waves and itll blow ur mind

[slowmopoke]

temp gradient

[kukulcangod1]

ay ay ay ayyyy!! it is the bubbles moving this thing for crying out loud!

[TinselKoala]

@kukulcangod1

No, it's not.

If you think it's the bubbles, you have to be able to explain why it rocks back and forth at first and how the bubbles are timed just so in order to make it speed up instead of slow down. Think about it....

[johnb003]

@TinselKoala You can explain the rocking by the fact that the mass is off center from the center of the magnetic field, and the bubbles are forming at a fairly consistent spot with consistent timing, which if it's in phase at all with the rocking will increase the rotation.

[bereanone]

Does the direction of the eventual rotation every change? Is it right hand or left hand rotation with respect to the positive and negative poles of the magnetic field?

[TinselKoala]

@bereanone

No, it can go either way. I think it depends more on the asymmetry between the mass distribution of the magnet blank and the magnetization of the blank. It's unusual for a small cheap magnet to be perfectly coaxially magnetized. Then, there are inevitable random perturbations that happen, so depending on all of that, the magnet might end up rotating in either direction.

You might be interested in my magnet slide video, where the Earth's field orientation makes a difference.

[QuarkToo]

Flash! - Canada replicates a high school experiment from the US.

The ring is damaged in the back and you can see that (well we can anyway) from the nitrogen fog that the field is breached. Therefor it is subject to all kinds of external forces you can see such as RF.

[TinselKoala]

@QuarkToo

Not only are you wrong again, three times in one post (and twice in the last one), but you are an idiot to boot. And you are blocked from commenting heretofore.

But keep watching my videos, because eventually you just might learn something.

It's a lot safer than skydiving ... the most intellectual of all sports.

[TinselKoala]

@QuarkToo

"QuarkToo has no videos available. "

I laugh in your face.

[TinselKoala]

@QuarkToo

Let's see: Claim 1: High schools do this experiment routinely in the US. I don't know, but I hope they do... but somehow I doubt it.

Claim 2: Nitrogen fog responds to "breached fields". WRONG.

Claim 3: You can see external RF force. WRONG.

Claim 4: The chipped ring has some effect on some field. WRONG.

[glaucoaster]

Very Intersting ., thank for the post . 

[PhotonDrive]

A spherical neo-mag in the center of a Rodin coil also rotates. Depending on asymetry of insertion it may also do a roulette-wheel scittering around the toroid hole.

What is the relation of this to rt-angle Eddy currents that cause dimunation of grav acceleration down copper pipe?

[TinselKoala]

@PhotonDrive

In the Rodin coil, does the magnet rotate without the coil being energized in any way? No. The coil must be powered.

In the eddy current in the pipe , you have magnetic field line components moving perpendicular to the surface of a conductor. Eddys are generated as they move, power is dissipated by the eddys in the metal, the power comes from the potential energy stored by lifting the magnet; the magnet is slowed as it falls.

Here there are no field lines moving across conductors.

[PhotonDrive]

@TinselKoala Some good points: did you check on moving field lines? Bismuth ceramic has lattice similar to Graphene. This good for Mat-research. My priority is IN-min/OUT-max. Rodin uses more than phased-timed Bedini, yours uses more than both. using air-scoop on car to spin Gen. Lev-Bearings cuts friction to near zero. Are using on New Electrics announced by Renault this week (China suspected of snatching secret tech 3-fired). UTube "UFO Alien Leak" for demo - got a new one going up in few days

[Jrockershadow]

you know....you are one of the few people that i heard ever say "accepted scientific explaination" for anything. I love this example though. but i agree with foozbong ...you think it may have something to due with its shape? even a tiny bit was that or is that testable. now to go somewhere to ask about a quantum physics test.....

[TinselKoala]

@Jrockershadow

In a way. I think the rotation might have something to do with the fact that the axis of symmetry of the magnetization is almost certainly not perfectly aligned with the physical axis of the magnet blank. Good luck on your exam !

[Jrockershadow]

@TinselKoala

no no. i not a student. i just trying to learn. i am just a geek. v.v

[deepcut66]

Very cool ;+}

[marlenawitek]

rotate theory ESLN

[Lemptuse]

Very good example. Here it is necessary using to close and keep vectors of magnetic forces streams the directing.

[foozbong]

That is very nice, although I would assume the rotation of the tcenter magnet to be due to imperfections either in it's shape or composition.

[71296105195]

i find the cloud of nitrogen very intresting.

[FarceTheory]

Are you able to repeat this experiment with both magnets submerge? To prove it's not Thermal Variance of the Magnetic Field of the smaller magnet.

[morpher44]

is it a spontaneous rotation or is the earth's field doing it?

[D2zee]

If you put a very high voltage in a superconductor you reliese high energy electric or magnetic fields which can travel beyond the speed of light. If you aim the fields at an object it can push it over.

In my opinion this would work but I hav'nt tried it yet.

[TinselKoala]

@D2zee

This is similar to Podkletnov's "second experiment", the Gravity Beam device. I tried it, it doesn't work, and the experimental difficulties are daunting.

Faster than the speed of light? How do you know this? What detectors are you using, I want to try some.

[kamixaki]

Has anybody tried integrating some sound frequencies to the experiment ..? Or maby some electrical current ..we could posibly control this phenomenon and maby even amplify it

[drcrocket]

When we conducted this experiment (1991 paper from TX Center Superconductivity), we painted a dot of Ag on the edge of the magnet, then used a laser/photodetector pair to measure the rotational velocity. Another fun variant - encase the magnet in a glass tube, seal, and evacuate, then position the apparatus over the superconducting wafer.

[TinselKoala]

@drcrocket

Thanks for your comment !! I'll try the test tube the next time we have cryo liquids in the lab.

I was surprised that my copper-foil covered disk still rotated. I would have guessed the heavy copper foil would have equalized, or at least minimized, the thermal gradient across the magnet.

[djziggurat]

So, I just noticed Tinsel Koala can also be spelled Nikola Tesla.

[TinselKoala]

@djziggurat

Yes, that is true. It can also be spelled Kate Allison.

And Ali Snotleak.

And Talk-o-Aliens.

And alt.snakeoil.

And Stella Nokia.

And maybe some other things too.

[Ashitakaandsan]

@TinselKoala lmfao

[TinselKoala]

@Ashitakaandsan

What's so funny? You can do this one yourself, with materials you can get on the internet. If you are implying that this is some kind of joke, you are in the wrong place. You should be at the alt.snakeoil videos, they are a bit more humorous.

[Ashitakaandsan]

@TinselKoala I'm not.

[girabbit85]

Is this not a perpetual motion system??

[TinselKoala]

No, I don't think so. Even neglecting the energy cost of keeping the system cool, it is far more likely that the system is extracting some small energy from existing sources, like for instance the heat flow caused by temperature asymmetry as postulated in the research papers. Or maybe even from the Earth's rotation. There are a lot of things to rule out before one needs to resort to "perpetual motion" explanations !!

[AverageJoe8686]

I don't know how NBD magnets are made, nor that ring. I don't know if the NBD magnet has cluster regions like iron does either, but If I needed to make a completely wild guess I would say that if those magnets were made, smelted, pressed, or whatever inside a magnetic field the rotation phenomenon may disappear. The only reason I'm assuming this is that the larger puck achieved it faster. I'm probably wrong though. Great channel.

[TinselKoala]

They are both ceramic materials; basically the groundup powders are mixed then fired or heated under pressure until they form a solid. For the magnets, they are then magnetized in a fixture by subjecting them to an intense current pulse. The SC is reground into coarse pieces and then melted again (melt-textured) in a donut shaped mould. Of course raw materials are different for the magnet and the SC.

There usually is some unevenness in the magnetization, especially with small magnets. Thanks!

[lalita078]

what about if you test it in the room temperature that has the same temperature as the nitrogen, i guess it will not spin. The reason that this spinning because the different of temperature between the nitrogen in your foam box and the room temperator. Once there are big different of temperature it can cause the mass motion. And the reason the object float this is because the density under the object and the density above the object .

[2076649]

wow looks like super-conducting

[ranger1360]

greedy government? nahhhhh

[ranger1360]

to me this proves that free energy is possible... but greedy elites don't want to give up an empire.

[TinselKoala]

You are absolutely right. Free energy is possible...as long as somebody else pays for it.

[ent2186]

It didn't seem to work as well with the first one after it was already cold. so maybe it has something to do with the uneven loss of heat in the magnet.

[Unaphiliated]

So, assuming the magnetic field of the superconducting ring is constant, and the magnetic field of the permanent magnet is constant, the only way to get this clockwise motion is some continuous minute force. So, you are probably seeing the effect of a third magnetic field. Is the Earth's magnetic field stationary? Knowing where the magnets poles are would help, so you can be aware of whether the spin is always in the same direction.

[TinselKoala]

You know, you might be right. I did not appreciate how important the Earth's field could be until I did the magnet/ramp sliding experiments, and found that the orientation of the system wrt the Earth's poles had a great effect.

I hadn't considered it in this system, but it would make an interesting experiment to try. Thanks !!

[ChoiceDowsing]

Very nice, and informative. I gotta hit the books again. I was just getting the idea that high temperature superconductors meant it needed no cooling? Anyways very nice experiment. Hope my science store is up to snuff.

[gilbondfac]

No back EMF in motor Of Jean Louis Naudin ! see his last video

[TinselKoala]

Amazing! This thread has nothing to do with that! Amazing!

Did the drunk ever find his keys, under the streetlight?

[gilbondfac]

OK sir ! but what do you think about ( mesures)

thanks!

[TinselKoala]

I think Jean-Louis is doing a great job. I envy him, and he is a major inspiration to me, and has been for many years. I built my first Naudin project in 1999 , and many more since.

That does not mean that he is automatically to be considered correct, though.

[johnnylance]

It is probably due to the shape of the small magnet. The molecular impacts are asymmetrical and impart torque, making it spin spin. This is similar to one of those little solar motors. Try using a very smooth, very round magnet. By changing the shape of the small magnet, I bet I could make it spin like crazy...

[tracmag]

But isn't the properties of the superconductor changing over time?

[TinselKoala]

Yes, it gets older at the rate of one second per second.

[waseatenbyagrue]

@TinselKoala

That was good.

[floorme44444]

Oh, come on... it's bubbling steadily right under the floating magnet... how can you overlook that source of energy?

[TinselKoala]

Oh come on... Did you see the magnet spinning wildly when I poured in the extra liquid nitrogen? No? How can you overlook that source of energy...?? The magnet ignores it, so you can too.

The magnet is not moving due to the boiling LN2.

I am sure even you could think of an easy way to test that hypothesis.

[onthecuttingedge2005]

Hi TK, could you induce an electric current in the superconductor trapping the current infinitely, then see if you can detect an infinite electric field that can be tapped off of by field induction. if the SC can store infinite current then it should emit an infinite electric field I would think.

[TinselKoala]

Well, you are right, I think. But currents in superconductors work like this: Bring a magnet near one. The motion of the magnet towards the material induces a current, which makes its field. Good so far. Now remove the magnet. What happens to the current in the SC? It goes away--that is, moving the magnet in starts the current, moving it out stops it.

Anything that "taps" the field from outside the SC takes energy from the field and causes it to decrease, taking the current in the SC down too.

[onthecuttingedge2005]

Since it is a toroidal superconductor, could it be possible that the magnet is inducing a small current in the superconductor and trapping the current which in turn is causing the magnet to spin off the micro current electric field?

[TinselKoala]

This is my favorite theory. It is likely to be wrong, but it is more satisfying than the thermal hypothesis given in the papers.

[THESOULbornold]

this video is proof that you dont have to have a phd to have access to cool stuff. sad

[TinselKoala]

What's sad about it? And what makes you think I don't have a PhD.?

[krishields]

The explanation is somewhat right... but perhaps further explained - I'm not sure what the papers say, but if you take two stacks of magnets edge to edge ( for stronger visual ), they will roll to a particular spot, every time, which means there is ALWAYS one field line loop that is much stronger than the rest - particularly due to the way that the magnets themselves are magnetized with a coil. So, that being known, a temp. variance could easily cause such rotation - cntd....

[krishields]

I noticed this immediately when you placed the second magnet over the toroid. So, when that line that is stronger than the rest comes close to the liquid nitrogen, it cools, changing the dynamics of its repulsion, further away it warms back up - and continues. It might only take a slight breeze, such as is produced by the gases coming off the toroid to get it going.

[TinselKoala]

I think you are pretty much summarizing the explanation given in the papers. It's still hard for me to accept, though. I'm not sure that this field strength variation with temperature idea is correct, but I haven't researched the issue very much.

I have isolated the magnet from convective breezes, and it still will begin to turn. But vibrations in the environment could still be starting it.

[krishields]

Well, I never read the papers, but came to this conclusion myself after doing much research on my own with magents. The strength differential in the magnets is so much that even in normal temps, that this sort of effect can be seen without a superconductor.

[krishields]

Try this, take a brand new magnet, roll it on edge on VERY smooth magnetic surface. Roll it a couple of times and mark where the magnet rolls to, then redo this super conductor experiment with the marked magnet, putting that mark at the top.

My guess is that the magnet will take a while to begin spinning. Now place the spot at the bottom, now it should ( if my thinking is correct, it could be opposite of this ) begin spinning in a short amount of time.

[krishields]

I wish I had some liquid Nitrogen and a large superconductor to do the experiment myself and show exactly why it's doing this, according to how I understand magnets to work.

[PsionNinja]

where can someone get a ring of superconducting material like what you have and how much would it be??

thanx

[TinselKoala]

Sorry to be so tardy in replying. I have no idea where you can get a ring like this one, it is custom made in our lab, a failed blank for a different experiment altogether.

But suitable chunks for levitation may be found for sale on the internet from weird science supply houses. Try looking on "the very last page of the internet" site.

[iLevitation]

Hello, thank for this excellent video.

Is this phenomenon only found when the levitating magnet is suspended over a ring of superconducting material?

I've never seen or heard of such an effect in other demonstrations of superconductivity but the other demonstrations were performed with simple blocks of YBCO.

Thanks,

-Scott

[TinselKoala]

Thanks. I have been able to get rotation over disks of YBCO, but the phenomenon seems easier over the toroid. It could also have something to do with the melt-texturing process by which the YBCO was made and assembled into the toroid.

[iLevitation]

Thanks for the quick response.

So you've only observed this effect in the melt-textured YBCO? Also, you've only seen the effect in YBCO formed in round shapes?

Scott

[TinselKoala]

Umm...I have not explored the parameter space as thoroughly as that. I have a bunch of scraps that were left over from a Podkletnov gravity-nullification experiment, and I used what's in the bag. I got the most successful effects from this melt-textured toroid. Some of the scraps were more or less rectangular slabs, some solid disks, and this toroid.

So all the HTSCs I've tried have been melt-textured. I can only say that the effect was most easily produced over this toroidal chunk.

[TinselKoala]

I think the shape of the toroid is helping the magnet to remain positioned in a location where the trapped field lines are more symmetrical. So my impression is that the shape of the material isn't actually affecting the rotation as such, but rather is affecting the stability and positioning of the levitating magnet. I could be wrong about that, though.

[TheCynicalAtheist]

Dont fully understand everything happening here, however it's facinating.

Great Video.

+Subbed

[TinselKoala]

Thanks, and clearly I don't understand either. There are some great comments above, though; I just read through them again and remembered a big stack of papers I need to read...

It looks like it will still be some time before things settle from our move, so I still haven't had a chance to try any of the nice experiments that were suggested above, but eventually I will get around to them, in the due course of things.

[TheCynicalAtheist]

If room temperature superconducters were found. What stops this being made on a larger scale, placing it inside to a vacum, placing coils at the top and using the rotating magnetic field to generate power?

I dont understand though it seems to violate the laws of conservation of energy.

The only force acting on it would be gravity, and does that have an effect on the rotation.

Unless the coil would create another magnetic field and cause the rotation to slow.

I am so confused.

[janne808]

If you pay close attention you'll notice that the magnetic field isn't rotating with the magnet (if I'm guessing the polarity of the magnet correctly), so no violation of laws. Homopolar magnet motors work the same way and there isn't a good explanation for that either.

[TheCynicalAtheist]

Ahh, i see.

The poles are not rotating.

[TheCynicalAtheist]

Just noticed your screen name is an anagram of Nikola Tesla.

I laughed out loud when i realized.

[TinselKoala]

Not only that, there are no poles.

Just Bohr magneton loops. All lines of magnetic "field" are closed loops. No poles, just polarities and parities.

Anyway, Mom was a real joker. What can I say.

---Alek Talison

[TheCynicalAtheist]

My head hurts worse than before now haha.

The temperature difference seems to explain the rotation for me i guess, i really dont understand how this happens though, i guess i should read those papers.

Im not even a physics student, well not academically, i love learning about things like this as a general hobby/interest.

Your videos are pretty interesting, not had a chance to catch them all yet, although i just saw the jacobs ladder one, not noticed if you have any Tesla Coil videos.

[TinselKoala]

I'm just now posting some vids of my newly constructed and nearly de-bugged Solid State Tesla Coil, that I call the "tinsel koil". It's pretty cool -- hot actually, I got a nasty RF burn last night that cooked about 3 ccs of my left index finger.

I have other Tesla coils but this is my first functional SSTC, and it's pretty impressive, at least by my standards.

I'm still testing, and posting vids as I get a chance.

Thanks for looking!

[FiniteTuning]

I agree: but I'm thinking in terms of a temperature differential displacement motor. Each bubble from the pool of nitrogen will not just release a pressure differential, but also a temperature differential as well. I believe this is otherwise know as the latent heat of fusion (I think). Whereas, not so much magnetic, but rather mechanical forces apply with a change in pressure.

But this is yet another excellent demonstration by TinselKoala. Good work man!

[helpmonkey]

i would postulate that the rotation is due to the fact that the magnet, superconductor and for that matter you and I are sitting on a rotating surface with a wobble (earth). I would be more supprised if it did not rotate. It would be interesting to place a spherical magnet and determine the axis of rotation.

[janne808]

Maybe both are in order. I'm no expert either, but I know a little about quantization. Not as much about superconductors though.

Was wondering if the fluxon/vortice interaction plays a role here. I'm under the impression that the vector potential is affected. So maybe sharpening of the flux has some sort of focusing effect. Just waving hands..

[janne808]

The magnetic field becomes quantized, right?

[TinselKoala]

I imagine it does.

Didn't it start that way, too?

For sure, it becomes cold.

[janne808]

I guess I shouldn't have used the word 'become'.

What I meant was that because of the superconducting ring you get a quantized magnetic field or flux. I can't exactly figure out the interaction with the permanent magnet though.

[TinselKoala]

That, too, is a great idea, one I hadn't thought of. When the current madness quiets down I will certainly try it to see what happens. Meanwhile, let's try to make the model more coherent, and see what its predictions are for this experiment. Then when I perform it I'll already have an idea how to interpret the results.

Thanks!

[janne808]

I took a quick read of the arxiv paper. Basicly it's suggested that it's driven by thermal conduction, a sort of homopolar heat engine.

I'm not so sure about that. The paper doesn't include any field theory considerations, like the interaction of the quantized fluxon (or Abrikosov vortex) lattice formation in the superconductor with the classical field of the permanent magnet.

I'm also temped to say it's some sort of AharonovBohm solenoid phase shift effect.

Haven't done the math though.

[TinselKoala]

er...umm...ah...

(I am actually sitting here wondering whether to google "abrikosov vortex fluxon quantization" now, or go get another beverage....)

Sir, I am vanquished. I yield, and humbly plead for thee to spare my miserable neck. You have trumped me well and surely. Now I've got to spend the next 4 days reading.

[janne808]

I'm not an expert either by any means. Think of the fluxons/abrikosov vortices as lattice quasiparticles (like holes on semiconductors) that form on the crystal lattice. They are little vortices that form around magnetic field lines thanks to the supercurrent. Google it up, it's well worth it and fascinating stuff.

The idea behind the sharp field flux idea would be to see if there is some focusing effect.. as far as I understand it the vector potential plays a role with these vortices.

[lumen0]

I agree, It is likely a thermal condition in the magnet where the colder area of the magnet becomes slightly stronger and since this is closer to the bottom and is also what's suspending the magnet, it becomes unstable and starts to rock and eventually rolls over.

At that point there is now nothing to stop it.

[TinselKoala]

That's pretty much the standard explanation.

But tiny magnets work better than larger diameter ones--even though they will have less thermal difference between top and bottom...and less torque from whatever is torquing...

And there are the tests I did with the magnets wrapped completely in a heavy layer of copper foil...they spin just as well as naked magnets.

I'm not putting forth an alternative hypothesis, I'm just saying the thermal gradient explanation has some seeming holes in it.

[janne808]

Doesn't the effect of smaller magnets imply that a sharper flux pronounces this effect? Would be interesting to see the effect with a extremely sharp field (like two like poles of magnets glued together.)

[slinky460]

TK, I don't see any fishing line, but I am going to blow a frame or two up in photo shop just to make sure.

Thanks

Slinky

[TinselKoala]

rofl

Let me know if you see anything...

[TinselKoala]

Does the field rotate with the magnet or not? We know that a magnet spun from the outside can produce a voltage, hence a current, in an external circuit (one-piece homopolar generators).

Clearly there is a net torque on this magnet wherever it's coming from, thermal gradient or wherever.

So if one could imagine frictionless brushes and very low impedance voltmeters, would there be a miniscule voltage generated by the homopolar phenomenon?

If this magnet were coated, that is.

[RBare2007]

Well, I've been educated yet again, I used to think the magnets rotation was caused by the liquid nitrogen evaporating.

[TinselKoala]

Yeh, you can see when I replenish the LN2 that it gets pretty drafty in there while I'm pouring and the magnet isn't affected by that at all. And during the experiment you see the little convection cells in the vapor; those actually mean there really isn't much draft happening.

[TinselKoala]

And you can't even see the fishing line at all.

[TinselKoala]

I don't have any idea what you mean. Just because the OCMPMM was shown being "binned" doesn't mean it really was binned. That was clearly a hoax. Why, could probably see the fishing line right there in the bin, if the light wasn't so bad.

You really probably shouldn't believe everything you see on the Internet. I understand that sometimes people give you the wind-up.

[Techforce100]

Why did you ( niKola Tesla ) trash OCMPMM ..... its seemed to work very well, just maybe needed some tweaking

[anandaadhar]

Isn\t the magnet spinning because the top of the floating magnet is hotter than the bottom? It is in that case a kind of Sterling-engine effect: Heat difference makes it run. So no perpetual motion of gravity against magnetic flux, but just the heat difference until the Nitrogen is exhausted. Or do you think this is proof of the rotational time energy of the universe maybe? Please be clear....

[TinselKoala]

Um. You have restated the findings reached by the researchers cited in the references, I believe. Well, not the part about the rotational time energy of the universe, I mean the other part.

However I do not necessarily agree with this finding as I have performed experiments that tend to disconfirm it. Magnets coated with a thick coat of copper, for example, can still exhibit the effect, even though the copper should equalize thermal differences across the magnet. I think.

[TinselKoala]

And also too, small little itty-bitty strong magnets will really spin relatively rapidly sometimes and I would not guess that the thermal gradient across such a small magnet would cause sufficient asymmetry in the field strength to rotate the magnet.

And, why is the field of the magnet affected so much by temp anyway? We don't see this effect of temp on BH at normal temps do we, until we approach the Curie point?

[LinzyMcMurter]

looks like free energy?

[TinselKoala]

Sure. As long as you don't have to pay for the LN2.

[onthecuttingedge2005]

use a toroid NIB magnet with a transformer winding on it to see if the winding will react to the fields taking place.

[venomousbird]

Where did you buy the superconducting material, and at what cost? Have you considered designing a small scale smes system?

[TinselKoala]

We made the superconductor ourselves, in our ceramics lab, for a Podkletnov antigravity experiment. But similar materials are available on the internet. I think you can get the rotation using a SC disk, but the donut shape seems to make it easier to position the rotating magnet.

What's a "smes system?"

[venomousbird]

smes means superconducting magnetic energy system or something like that, basically, it's the idea of storing electricity in a superconductor and then using it when required like a battery. I would recommend trying it with carbon nanotubes if you can figure out how to manufacture those!

[TinselKoala]

I see. It sounds like a good idea. Unfortunately for me, I just dabble in cryogenics, it isn't my real forte. But should a room-temperature SC become available in bulk form in anything other than Goldes's imagination, I'll have to leave the development and research into SMES for someone else. More "power" to them!

Thanks for your suggestion. I'd love to have some bulk nanotubes to play with. I'll research the technology and see what I can come up with. I do work with CF and it's a real hassle.

[Drag0re]

Very interesting, thanks for the upload.

[raydiddy420]

Just the energy from the evaporating liquid nitrogen will slowly add energy vibrating the magnet even just a little until the energy builds up in the superconductor increasing the strength of the electric current inside it until it causes the magnet to keep spinning.

The superconductor is like a battery because the energy persists in it indefinitely. So any even minute energy added to the system would stay in it.

[venomousbird]

There is a limit though, a superconductor eventually reaches a critical point where it will no longer absorb a charge. However, with some materials this is a very high value. I'd like to work on some superconducting batteries.

[watchdog3]

what is the cost of l/n ?

[TinselKoala]

Depends on the quantity and the source. This batch cost us about 3 bucks Canadian per liter, but it can be a lot cheaper.

[watchdog3]

thnx,

[ssnatcherss]

Maybe the resonance is coming from vortex shedding in the air flow around the magnet...

But then again, I don't know much about how the changing EM field would affect the motion.

It's an interesting video!

[spilafis]

Proposition for a follow up experiment: seal the superconductor and liquid nitrogen in an insulated container, and everything (the first container and the magnet) into another insulated container before letting the continual rotation happen.

That would show if the cause is the disturbance produce by the evaporation or the thermogradient.. or not.

[TinselKoala]

The researchers in the cited paper have done the experiment by putting the magnet in a test tube and lowering the tube into position. The magnet rotates; this method should be effective in isolating the magnet from the turbulence coming off the LN2.

Their results with coated magnets (to try to equalize the thermal gradient across the magnet) are different from mine.

[TinselKoala]

Oh, and there's a technical term for trying to seal LN2 in a container. It's called "terminal folly". Unless, of course, you can keep the whole thing below 70 K.

[ingliss]

I've Just used the last of my liquid nitrogen unfortunately. Tsk.

One thing that was hard to figure out, especially given the speed involved and the rather hypnotic effect, is whether the angular displacement increased in a straight-line or tended to accelerate? (sorry I realise my terms are likely confused)

It also looks like it settles into a steady rate of rotation pretty quickly, but does it continue to accelerate for a while until settling on a maximum?

V. interesting, thanks.

[TinselKoala]

Yes, depending on the magnet the rotation can accelerate until it's going quite fast. The tiny magnets used in earbuds work pretty well. This is another reason that I discount the thermal gradient explanation--smaller magnets have less room for a gradient...yet they turn faster.

[ingliss]

What would "size" mean here? Depending on the shape, wouldn't you get a magnet that could vary considerably wrt MOI, volume and surface area (and consequently air-friction and thermal gradient)? if you were to take two cylinders of equivalent mass, one like an AA battery and the other squashed to form a thin disc, would they have varying characteristics?

To the uneducated, it "feels" like smaller = faster might be oversimplified :-)

[TinselKoala]

You're right about the oversimplification. I haven't explored systematically testing size/shape/strength combos; I think it would be interesting to do so. What I have found is that seemingly identical magnets can and do behave differently in this experiment, and the same disk magnet "naked" will spin, about the same rate, as when it is covered with 5-mil copper foil.

It would seem that a bigger O.D. should produce a bigger torque, other things held equal, if the thermal gradient is the cause.

[STEVEGET]

Hum, space is cold enough to keep this going indefinitely, energy source maybe

some day.

[simeon2020]

If thermal gradient is the cause, it may be due to material imperfections and magneto calorific effect. IR imaging may be useful?

I imagine a sample with uniform anisotropy would remain where placed. I have no idea how you would procure a such a thing.

That it rotates from a standstill indicates that there is an overall positive torque. Which given the periodical movement suggests that it may be possible to design a sample to optimise the effect.

Depletion is interesting. Hope you pursue this

[TinselKoala]

Did you just say "uniform anisotropy?"

Hmmm, I'll have to ask my contacts in Military Intelligence about that.

[simeon2020]

You're a funny guy. I apprecieate that you're suggesting it's an oxymoron, but I suggest you are the only moron. (not really but youtube has taught me that it's fun to insult strangers on the internet)

It's perfectly possible to a have uniform anisotropy.

The field isn't centralized to the sample, measure it and you'll likely see a small difference between pole strengths. As you've seen yourself this will lead to different behaviours from apparently similar samples. See sliding aluminium vids.

[TinselKoala]

Ah, those ones. Sure, I encounter uniform anisotropy all the time in my work. In fact it occasionally is ubiquitous. Sometimes I even get samples that are isotropically non-uniform, and I have to recalibrate the decalibrator and refrange the oblivial pivot. But that only takes a few minutes.

If the poles are different strengths why doesn't the magnet rotate, like a little puppy chasing its own tail?

(And I sort of thot poles were fictitious anyway--see "Bohr magneton"...)

It is fun, isn't it?

[TinselKoala]

I mean, doesn't every single "field line" loop all the way around, eventually passing through its source, the little Bohr magnetons made up of the electrons in their orbits (and to a lesser extent the nucleus spinning its positive charge around)? So our macroscopic idea of magnetic "poles" is really describing the bulk behaviour of field lines outside the magnetic material and is only illusion. Every field line is a closed loop. No doubt about it. No poles.

Just loops.

The E-field is different.

[AdminOnDuty]

Great show! Has this been reproduced in microgravity? I agree that the forces do not appear to be thermal, but the effect is thermal. It is interesting however that it appears to favor being over the boil rather than the ceramic itself as in the first video. During the rocking, the dwell observed in the CCW direction seemed longer than that in the CW direction. It appears you have shifted the axis just as they do in the RBM. To test the theory, hold it firm for 10 seconds, rotate 90° and ...

[AdminOnDuty]

... then release it quickly after rotating it. if the center axis has shifted the rocking action will be pronounced after that small time period. It sure appears to mimic gravitometric actions. It would be nice to repeat the experiment with no convection in a sealed thermally isolated and stable environment (externally cooling tubes). Perhaps there is an exchange of mass/energy making it top heavy.

Thanx for sharing both vids - 5 stars!

[TinselKoala]

Thanks! I don't know when I'll get a chance to try your suggested experiments, as I don't always have LN2 available, but I'll put them on the list.

One detail that also seems to work against the thermal hypothesis is the following: we here have found that the magnets used in this experiment actually sometimes seem to decrease in strength with the cold. JK used one of his that had known strength, and after rotating in this setup it had lost 30 percent of its strength--apparently permanently.

[AdminOnDuty]

30%? That is significant. At first thought I imagined you had shifted the Curie mean in such a way as to allow room temp thermal transfer to disassociate the domains. It is more likely that inner electron orbits have migrated into the polar orbit around the nucleus which is dipped and can cause a reversal of the spin. Have JD bring the temperature up to above 50°C with the magnet attached to another with the prior strength. If it regains its 30% or near there, then it is probably the elctron...

[AdminOnDuty]

... spins that got whacked a bit. Otherwise, you may want to look for microfractures that can occur from rapid thermal changes. These can lead to preventing domains from accurately holding their patterns. If microfractures are present you will have a rare opportunity to study the casimir effect within those fractures.

Keep up the good work.

[TinselKoala]

Hmmm--we thot it might have been from rotating the magnet in the induced field of the YBCO, which is the opposing field responsible for the Meissner levitation in the Type II material. I think.

I was very surprised to see this reduction in strength. Often when performing this experiment I can see the magnet beginning to "sag". I always thought it was due to the SC warming up, but now I think it might be the magnet losing strength.

We will try what you suggest, next time we have LN2 in the lab.

[TinselKoala]

As for microgravity--I don't know, but I doubt it. I'll suggest it to my extraterrestrial contacts (the NASA ones, I mean).

There is great variation between magnets, even of the same type, in this experiment, possibly caused by various anisotropies in distribution of mass vs. magnetic field geometry.

The preferred position is over the hole in the toroid; perhaps this is why the effect is not more commonly demonstrated. Not everybody has a melt-textured YBCO toroid to play around with.

[grolgh]

I guess if you somehow were able to create a larger gradient it would by the hypothesis rotate faster. Removing the gradient sounds hard, so I guess it would be easier to devise an artificial gradients that would cause different behaviour - or if you're right - not.

[TinselKoala]

Good idea, and I hadn't thought of that. I could focus IR using a lab laser, onto the upper region of the magnet, thus creating a steeper thermal gradient. By the Ma et al. hypothesis, the magnet should spin faster.

I'll definitely try it, as soon as I get a chance. It might not be soon though, as we are engaged in other stuff at the moment.

But thanks for the suggestion and I will definitely be trying it.

[X00000013]

Well done, Thanks for posting.

[sparten1114]

please add anouther mag perpendicular to the nib. keep the distance. just test the lens affect at 90 degrees. see if you can build up any higher speed. perhaps a electromagnet pulsed. just a thought. seems to be the penduelum effect goin on here.

[m3sca1]

is there any way you can remove the turbulence of the boiling cold liquid,and air movement above the system??

[TinselKoala]

I have used a thin piece of polycarbonate plastic, but you do have to provide some channel for the escaping gas.