Sviatoslav Richter plays Beethoven "Hammerklavier" (5/6)

[SepiaLatimanus]

Once again Richter plays a piece better than anyone else. My new favorite performance.

[greenleafbrown]

True lovers are humble and awestruck in the presence of the beloved. I don't understand how people can fall into argumentation here. Do you love the music? Then dive in that love. Dive in that love and be drowned.

[darkblueangel1956]

La Fuga della Sonata op. 106 di Beethoven eseguita da Sviatoslav Richter, per me ha l'effetto di una droga devastante ! Velocità che neanche Pollini realizza, nitidezza spettacolare in ogni esposizione del tema, dei trilli e degli sviluppi, un fraseggio delirante di un romanticismo "da alchimia", che sembra ... Scriabin primo periodo, incisiva lucentezza di suono, impasto timbrico levigato e tangibile come il granito !!! Sonata scritta per una dimensione cosmica siderale ... DA STORDIMENTO !!!

[advisorC101]

This is the stuff of pure dreams. Thank you again Truecrypt!

[francescaemc2]

Grazie mille!!!!! Stupenda.

[tchebinai71]

Have somebody heard about an Horowit's or Gould version ?

[diditrich]

I heard Gould's, it is great, but the sound of the CBC recording it's just awful, yoy just lose as much of Goulds wonderful instrospective sound as in his recordings of the Art of Fugue, unfortunately.

[kajohada]

really really powerful!

i never heard this fugue like that, ican see all the lines in my mind´s eye,

s u p e r b! :))

[scottbos68]

here beethoven is absolutely blisteiring with genius and this recording is a treasure

[suicide1112]

Such massive poundings.

[pianopera]

Impossible to imagine what Beethoven would have been without Bach. The Well-Tempered Clavier was his bible, and Richter studied and played all 48. Busoni said that "Bach is the basis of piano playing, Liszt the culminating-point; those two combined make Beethoven possible". IMHO Richter really excels in this movement.

[chad410]

i have to say Richter i don t think regards Bach s preludes and fugues as his bible but perhaps more requirenents. This is hugely powerful. thanks

[pianopera]

Please read carefully, I said the WTC was *Beethoven's* bible, not Richter's...although I think that Bach was more important for Richter than any other composer...as he should be for any serious musician...

[chad410]

I read carefully and i simply chaged the thread a little. after hearing him play Bach and hear him play this i know what i think he prefers. His Bach preludes and fugues seem to be played out of duty nothing else. this is his music i think more.

[suicide1112]

I have to disagree. I think his Bach is quite lively, and most definitely not played in the typical manner which makes it altogether more interesting to me.

[kajohada]

...it is to be said that the well tempered piano by bach is the Old and the piano sonatas by beethoven the New Testament in classical music!

[pianopera]

...And Richter was definitely an Apostle of both composers!

[infernobegins]

Well, if you are referring to keyboard, there are many other equally great works. Mozart's piano sonatas - the Koran? - are just as good. And what aboud the preludes and etudes of Chopin, as well as his nocturnes and polonaises - the Talmud?

[kajohada]

if you want so....!

[paolohudson]

well...the Mozart sonatas aren't all excellent. A number of highly notable pianists, like Horowitz, have said that they are held in a high regard only because of Mozart's autograph at the top of the page. just a thought...

[ajlee1216]

I'd say I agree on that. And Horowitz, being a Mozart lover, probably was giving a very objective observation there, too.

Beethoven was definitely a more "economy" composer---everything he wrote was something he poured all his soul into. Mozart, with his overflowing genius, probably composed many works "just for the sake of it." However, that's not to say he's a lesser composer---just that a few of his works might have been simple "mental exercises" of his.

[truecrypt]

Dear paolohudson and ajlee1216;

ALL Mozart's sonatas are EXCELLENT, though they are not equal in their level of greatness! The same applies to Beethoven.

Even when he (Mozart) was writing "just for the sake of it" (what a Perl!), it was a work of genius. With all respect to Horowitz, what he said (and I don't know if he actually said so) was not a result of deep thinking, rather a capricious moment during the interview. At least Horowitz had a right to be "original" - you don't.

[paolohudson]

"[Mozart]'s concerti are works of genius, and his sonatas are lovely too, but some are not at all interesting. They are played anyway because they have a good signature." - Horowitz in an interview with Elyse Mach in "Great Contemporary Pianists Speak for Themselves"

I can't agree with you. I don't find all of Mozart unbelievable genius. Some is some isn't. However, I don't think there's a single Beethoven sonata that doesn't have complete musical merit. That's my opinion, you have your own.

[truecrypt]

You are absolutely entitled to disagree with me and agree with Horowitz, but aside of Horowitz's opinion, - can you point to a single Mozart's sonata which is not excellent or "doesn't have complete musical merit"? Generalizing is OK for marketing purposes, but "devil is in details"... So, which of Mozart's piano sonatas are NOT excellent?

[ajlee1216]

Please rest assured that Mozart always will be one of the greatest music persons in all history. What I tried to say was simply that due to his other-worldly genius, Mozart produced a massive volume, in which not necessarily every single work was given the absolute fullest effort of production.

Of course the same could be said of Beethoven, but since he produced fewer works, the impression is that he had more "masterpieces."

[ajlee1216]

I might add that despite what Horowitz said, he stated in the liner notes of one of his recordings that "Mozart is my number one." The greatness of a composer isn't based on how few "unimportant" works he produced but how many that endured the test of time.

Chopin, with his indispensable contributions to the piano repertory, also did produce some works that he and the public deemed uninteresting (e.g. his piano sonata no.1).

[truecrypt]

Well... the point paolohudson made (and you agreed) was "the Mozart sonatas aren't all excellent".

No need to discuss the "greatness ratio" i.e. (*masterpieces*/*all compositions*).

Let's concentrate on a "simple" things... Could you please point to any of the Mozart's piano sonatas which is NOT EXCELLENT and "doesn't have complete musical merit"? Horowitz didn't do it, but may be you could? BTW who are those "highly notable pianists, like Horowitz" who share your views?

[paolohudson]

Sonatas which aren't excellent: K. 279, K. 311, K. 330, K. 309, K. 211 and K. 533.

Sonatas which are excellent: K. 284, K. 310, K. 322, K. 323, K. 475 & 457, K. 576.

Gould was another who wasn't very fascinated by Mozart (he is, I recognize, unique in his views but nevertheless) as well as Marc Andre Hamelin, who prefers Haydn's Sonata's to those of Mozart's because "there is an angularity, a very strong tendency to break taboos, which appeals to me" (Montreal Gazette July 26 2008).

[truecrypt]

Since when Hamelin's (or even Gould's) extravagant' opinions became a standard to measure an excellency of Mozart's sonatas?

Again, all sonatas are excellent, but level of greatness is different. Too bad you can't see how ridiculous your comment is.

[paolohudson]

I am so confused with what you're trying to say at this point I don't even know how to reply.

Mozart's sonatas, by and large, are superfluous and very similar in construct. There are very few which really push the boundaries of the classical style and expand it permanently. In that case, then the only truly great sonata is the C minor sonata & fantasia because it had the greatest impact on the form of the sonata.

Anyway, Beethoven's Hammerklavier is the greatest sonata composed.

[truecrypt]

do you think sonata should "really push boundaries of classical form" to qualify to be "an excellent"? This is an absurd!

[paolohudson]

Now you've changed your terms.

A "great" sonata is not the same as an "excellent" sonata (look at what you just said before), and Mozart's sonatas aren't all excellent and only one is truly great (well, maybe two, but the C minor is the greatest). That's it. That's all I'm trying to say.

Besides, how do YOU define level of greatness and excellency?

[truecrypt]

Sorry, paolohudson, but your comments getting more and more illogical. If you think Mozart wrote only one "great" sonata and the rest are some excellent and others "are not excellent"ones - there is nothing to argue about. Waste of time. Again, when Horowitz or Gould wanted to be "original", it's forgivable - they were extraordinary performers. When you say the same, it sounds quite funny.

[paolohudson]

I'm actually trying to show a bit of logic. You just say no, no, and no. So far, you've made no argument contrary to mine whereas I've actually tried to support my argument.

Whatever, believe what you may, because as funny as I sound, you're just as bad.

[truecrypt]

To say that Mozart wrote one "great" sonata, several "excellent" sonatas and the rest are "not excellent" sonatas is not an argument even if you refer to Horowitz's and Gould's extravagant opinions. Good luck with non-excellent sonatas!

[paolohudson]

That wasn't the bloody argument. Just give it up already.

[truecrypt]

Correct, it's not an argument but an opinion of extravagant few you use as an argument.

Again, good luck with Mozart sonatas...

[KeithWhalen11]

Sonata form or not it comes down to what you enjoy listening to. Someone may love the simplicity and structure of Mozart over the expressive grandeur of the Alkan sonata even. I think it's naive to classify things into good, great or excellent because music is to be interpreted by the listener as well. It's so incredibly naive to end an argument saying the Hammerklavier is the greatest sonata composed. It's like saying green is the best color. Whether you believe it or not it proves nothing.

[KeithWhalen11]

And Paolo, thank you for strengthening my argument here. Hamelin is saying he enjoys what appeals to HIM, he isn't saying "...because Haydn is more angular he wrote better piano sonatas." I could easily throw a stick in your spokes by citing the K. 279 as being my favorite sonata by Mozart, which I deem to be excellent. How would you refute it? You can't take away my affection for anything by making simple (and useless) comparisons. Stop searching for superlatives by means of comparison.

[herodot2]

@kajohada

So what are Chopin's etudes then ;-)

[volk410]

@kajohada And what a far more wonderful canon the great works by Bach and Beethoven are! Free of the murderous rages and terrible jealousy and self-centeredness that characterize that awful god-character.

[tHEnOOSEsWINGS]

Thank you for your live set of Sviatoslav Richter.