the thing about Landmark is that they love VOLUNTEERS. Volunteer for this, for that, including office work, janitorial, inhouse security....many Counselors say they dont get pay at all. So many students lend a hand to this great cause for human transformation.
Awsome!! Thanks for the wonderful insight. I have spoken to many others who hold the same exact opinion as you pertaining to the Forum. You are truly helping others not get sucked in and ripped off. Thanks again :-) and yes, our friends at the top are enjoying their company private jets flying them to their private (company owned) island(s)
If you are heavily involved in LM and there is a bell ringing in your head, that there is something wrong, trust your inner self, It is trying to save you. Gather all your energy, fight all the resistance, Leave the premises ASAP, and save your soul.
I may be mistaken but I think you have got your wires crossed with regard to levels - what you are describing sounds like freemasons. 32nd degree drone is definitely freemason (google it yourself)
Well, I confess that I was being a bit tongue and cheek regarding this comparison between the masons and LM to parody the secrecy of the organization. I thought people would pick up on that.
oh, ok. thanks for clearing that up. I certainly dont know much about Freemasons so I guess only those in the know about secret organisations will have got that one. I dont see any secrecy in the organisation myself. The only secrecy is not disclosing names of participants to anyone outside but I guess this is data protection. Straight talking, authentic people who live from their word - I guess that seems weird in a society that lacks integrity on the whole and who deem lying to be acceptable.
My goo friend goes to Landmark to "assist" in intro courses an to 3 day events. She has been doing this for years. She even offered to pay the $600 US (about) for me to go to a 3 day forum I told her no. She;s retired and living on a small pension and social security with no assets and renting a small apartment. I tried talking to her about this and she says that she is not that deeply involve in it an still can think independently. She has no critical skills and is too accepting of things
If most of the business of landmark is run 90% if not more by volunteers, some smart business man gets all the money then, and what do you get? ripped off maybe. I'm very suspicious even if my friend recommends it.
...continued) If a Jazz band entertains 1000 people at a venue and 500 people felt that music changed their lives and 500 felt the saxophonist was brainwashing them, should you do an investigation? Landmark, like many other art forms, changes peoples lives. People can spend as much money as they want on their art preferences. If a beautician wants to spend her life saving on a painting, can you understand that this is not your concern? Is it my concern how financially feasible you choices are?
Yes, but the point is that the dynamics involved in the forum experience are set up in such a way that psychologically, it is nearly impossible for those who have been won over to walk away with just one product. They become dependent emotionally. The emotional dependence along with the strong arm sales techniques are what I take issue with, but as is said, there is a sucker born every minute.
It's simple: The money goes to the employees as with any other job. It's just the way jobs work. Its not my business how much you make nor is it yours how much anyone's money goes. Second: If you want to volunteer at a soup kitchen, that's your decision. Something about that opportunity moves you. The people volunteering at the Forum chose that. It is their right, no? Third: FAR too many people internationally are benefiting from this stuff for you knock it so animately. (will continue...)
i must say as someone who went through most of the courses that i am able to view it cynically [as you do, if i may say so] and in great suspicion but i also acknoledge the GOOD that they do. Therefore, I'm not here nor there, which, in my opinion, a rare point of view of landmark education.
I don't think I've ever said that Landmark hasn't helped some people. I do think it works for a certain personality. But you are right in saying there is a lot of "sketchy" aspects. I would begin to question why it is referred to as "technology".........?
Because it is technical. It is not psychological in the deep sense of the word. It works on very shallow problems of how you function and how to change your attitude. It cannot reach the deep 'fucks' we have in our lives. Therefore - it is considered to be a 'technology'. That's my point of view anyway. I've gotten what I could use from there but I was yet complete [nor will I ever be]. Have I somehow answered your question?
p.s. it's important to know that indeed, most of the business of landmark is run 90% if not more by volunteers [i've been one for 2 years, a few years ago] but there is a highter team of paid employees of landmark - those 'chosen ones' who convinced the 'upper league' of landmark of their high level of commitment and belief in the technology. i've so much to say about your videos, these tiny white boxes are not enough.
as someone who's been deep in landmark's technology for two years, i share your doubts. i know from personal information that all landmark employees are paid quite poorly in regard to the amount of personal investment they give in their work. yeah, i don't know where the money is going. i understand the need to explore to 'sketchy' elements of the company. yet, why not just take the tools you see fit yourself best and say goodbye. that's what i did - i took what worked for me and moved on.
Brad,I appreciate your Honest expressions of your own personal experience with this particular organization! You are doing a great service to many people and I am glad for your video,and the truths you tell in it! Cheers!!!
Note: I attended an introduction the other day and I was quoted a harvard research project as well. I'm wondering if the same person at harvard is responsible for both of these studies.
I did Forum, Advanced and SELP, volunteered too. After a week of harassment, I didn't walk away, I ran. Landmark is purposefully designed to be addictive to the individual and viral throughout society. They spend half the time brainwashing/abusing you, and the other half getting you to recruit others. It's like Amway, but the product they're selling is your own serotonin. Brad, you're way too easy on them. Let's call a spade a spade: If it looks like a cult and feels like a cult...
I would compare Landmark/est to a Snickers bar. If you paid your money and got something out of it, you have an even transaction. Like with the Snickers Bar, I don't care if some high muckety-muck is taking his share of the profits (from est or Snickers) and banging his secretary on his private jet. It's not my concern. And likewise, I can overdo it and overdose on est or Snickers (and turn myself into an est-hole or a lard-ass). That's not anybody else's fault but mine if I'm a mature adult.
so true. I can't stand the smarmy "got it" est-holes that pace around these corporate centers with their poles out fishing for stuff. strange fetish. but hey, that's they're thing.
Brad, You have a tremendous amount of charisma and likeability. I would love to see you use your talents and focus your great energy on something positive in your life. You're a natural leader.
That's very kind of you to say so. I realize that not everyone agrees that these videos are not the most positive use of my talents, but many people have written to me in gratitude for them, so in a way I feel these clips are a good outlet for those characteristics you described.
i took the est training in 79 i took it mainly because friends were doing it they were adamant salespeople that were sold a bill of goods i was sceptical it seemed like if i got it maybe it would rub off on them. i did learn the power of hypnosis and brainwashing.brainwashing is a positive if youve been programmed wrong but they try to program you to be slaves to them
it's sad how many brainwashed people are commenting on your vids. keep it up, you are very eloquent and present very clear, cogent arguments. landmark prays on the week, and when you have suffered, and have traumas, it is easy to get seduced.
I've gotten a few comments lately about the forum monitors. The folks at Landmark say, they open the door to make it easier for participants and to avoid noise. This has been said over and over in defense of the monitor system. The truth is, that the various monitor roles: door guard, water bearers, those who report non-compliant participants are all carefully spelled out in a document called the "Forum Protocol".
I have assisted many times as a monitor and can assure you that participants are not monitored or reported. The monitors are there to assist and to maintain the integrity of the space in the room, which is essential for transformation. The monitors on the door stop people wandering into the room and open and close the doors quietly so that they dont bang everytime someone goes to the toilet.
You bring up a lot of really great points Brad. One thing that should be made clear is that Landmark Forum is not a self help course. It is a weekend long discourse designed to facilitate inquiries into what works in life and what doesn't. It is not therapy, or even related to it.
You say you are concerned about were the profits of the company go.
It means people and business are the same. They require money to pay for their lights, phones, computers, electricity, flights, their 401K's, and then if there is money left over they pay themselves the profits or save it or invest in growing the company.
Yes, this argument is given a lot. And it would be valid, but Landmark is operated mostly by volunteers who are not paid A DIME. The guy who recruited me travels all over with a group spending his own money, and buddy, he can't afford it. When most of the labor is free, the overhead can't be very much.
I actually mean no disrespect when I say that every word of this video after 6:20 is crap. Not one word of this Volunteer Hierarchy", or what qualifies a person to be a coach, or ANY requirement to register ANYONE into ANY program is true. Landmark Education makes u no promises, gives u nothing to believe in & encourages u 2 be more involved & in depth with your family & friends. Cults don't do that, they want to take u away from them. It is clear that YOU have never ACTUALLY dont the course.
Brad, I think the perspective one takes in their interpretation of this quote is important. At some level all human beings are a con, representing themselves in a way that is at least on some level dishonest or a misrepresentation. Acknowledging your own darkside/"con" side is imperative before getting to one's "true self" Werner Erhard and Landmark education are far from the only organization/movement that acknowledges this idea.
I have been researching the life and work of Werner Erhard aka Jack Rosenberg who founded Landmark Education. This will be the topic of an upcoming video, and I promise the information you will hear will astound you!
Thank you very much bradbavarde for posting these videos, you are doing a great service to the public in getting the word out about this controversial organization and its methods.
Yes, uproariousfun, you are right on Scientologist using mind control tactics are scary as hell. As for you not posting anymore comments, let's just say, I'm not going to hold my breath. You've siad that before under a different handle.
Brad, I will not be posting any more comments-you Scientologish deleting comments mind control tactics are scary as hell! I think everybody should be scared but hey...if "some people" get value from your behavior, I am happy for them.
Readers, if the postings do not make since, it is because I have had to remove a Landmarkian who can not maintain his integrity by swtiching and closing accounts again and again. This is an obvious attempt at confusing issues and "bull-baiting" which is a Scientologist's term for harassment.
oh and bradbavarde, I am just curious, 'cutting off posters from other views', 'making up new rules of conduct for the message board to cater to your point of view as you go' and 'disregarding everyone else's interest but your own'....Brad, what Scientology tactic are you using here? *scrambles to brilliant factual Rick Ross message board to see if bradbavarde is listed at a perpetrator and if he has any history of victimizing others using these mind control tactics*.
Wow, I guess I owe the forum leaders an apology. I was sure they got a bigger cut than that. I hope they at least get a bonus per recruit to the advanced course!
60g top in 90's, doubt it's more now., It's basically a volunteer organization. They have to keep the pay low so they can be sure the"leaders" are not doing it for money but out of love. If you're really privileged and female you get to be Jacks personal servant with the special job of massaging his feet when he wakes up and before he goes to bed
Of course other side of story is that Jack is a great and enlightened person who is here to heal the world so why wouldn't u want to help with that?
"Werner" lives out of country in lap of luxury yet has not had a job in 40yrs!.. pretty neat trick. W.E. is the company "reinvestment."
My father ran his own EST knock off organization after studying with Werner. With 2 to 4 "managers" and a constant rotation of maybe 30 "sales person" volunteers (door to door all purpose cleaner sellers) What they made barely covered price of "life training" room and board
What tbgx1 says is true, they don't make much $, they do it because they are set to ~transform the world~
And the don't get any bonuses for high enrollment, they just get brow-beat (or rather coached) if their numbers are low.
Have you read Outrageous Betrayal yet? It's a real eye-opener. Of course others would say it's..........you guessed it gossip, slander, and/or mocking. hehe
I haven't had time to read it yet. I did watch "Transformation" on my on demand. What's the story behind that. i almost felt sorry for Werner, but then I saw where he is living.
Well said Billy! He seems to have this obsession with the word "mocking". Isn't he also mocking us by changing his name all the time? I think he started all this mocking in the first place. "The Mockingbird still's singing..."
I think I am going to remove any comments if the account is closed. I want to discourage this behavior. If he can't maintain a stable identity, then he has no credibility in making comments here. So, if he keeps an account open, he may post away, otherwise he's deleted.
Yes, but with you, it has everything to do with Landmark. And BTW you are always open to express your views as I have said many times before as I have via the same avenue. You have said the same things over and over and over again. Sometimes with almost the same words.
I think he may be assuming more names to appear as though he is more than one person. But the arguments are always the same as you and I know. Or he has been blocked so many times on other boards, that it is necessary.
Lorrieload, please note the comment on the final video from stonefishman. It is a very healthy and positive comment about a positive experience at Landmark. You may want to take note if you want to win friends and influence people. But somehow, I don't think that is your goal.
bradbavarde, I had no "goal". I simply repeatedly pointed out that u were using harassment, gossip, mockery @ other people's expense to draw attention to urself & using baseless, distorted accusations & words w no accuracy to VENT & act out ur issues/grievances, all self justfied because somebody did something YOU did not LIKE. If stonefishman posts much more u will be mocking him & questioning his mentalhealth as u have others. MY 'goals'? YOU are the 1 w 6 video's on YT mocking & smearing LE.
No, as this person expressed his experience in a positive way without accusing me or being aggresive, I was just more open to understanding what he had to say. You, on the otherhand are so defensive that you close yourself off from the possibility of having others empathize with your point of view. Any additional postings will be fine, but I know that he will not be arguing with me because we have both agreed that LM was good for him. His note made this possible, through his kind openess.
Continue the great videos, people need to see LM as a gateway into more serious cults like Scientology which was the grandfather of Landmark : scientology, then EST, then LM.
Lorrie, my boss was nuts and forced us to attend a brainwashing session, among many other things, as our "training". Normal people don't force this type of thing on others, let alone their employees who are already in a subordinate, somewhat powerless position. He was crazy. What don't you understand? I don't know that I've ever left a comment on YouTube before this one, just cruising through and saw something that struck a nerve. You can take your gleeful mocking of me and go elsewhere.
Brad, totally agree with your comments. My ex-boss asked (forced) all his employees to attend the Landmark Forum here in Chicago, the SELP, and other programs, and then spoke to his employees in this Landmark language. He did pay for this, however, it very much creeped us all out. The forcing of attendees to invite others to the Tuesday night was unbelievable! Who are you being? Who are being!? You're being unwelcoming. Try this on. Be welcoming. There's your breakthrough.
tinchro, thanks for posting your comment. I forgot the "who are you being" and "try this on" landmarkese. Each time someone shares a story as you did, I feel I am not alone in my feelings or that I am being too hard on an organization that is "helping people make a difference" There is defintely something funny going on, or should I say funny business?
hello Tincro, when you say EX-boss was there a problem after the cousrse or was it something different? All last week I was on here making comments...that just exhasted me, I am just curious, as I was in a similar situation.
and let's not forget Jim's video response using his power of intuition to see into my lonely life! Hehe..... I am going to be very busy soon with some classes. Maybe another will make a video and move the party.
"bradbavarde, you are trash and a common parasite who creates SFA in life ot brag about but attaches himself to something in the public eye to draw attention to his sad life. Keep feeding of those who are working hard to have your brief hollow moment of glee. There are jerks like you sliming every possible community on line. Without the object of your slander you got nothing!"
This was YOUR comment on my first video, I don't think u have any room to talk about maturity and constructive crit.
bradbavarde - yikes - that is a bit out there! Even though that is *embarrassing* in the context of this conversation, I have backed away from that kind of hostility of mine and feel yes, we can have a conversation about maturity and constructive crit in the present. Yes?
I think if you watch my first video, I do not see how I was mocking or slandering at all. Things didn't get ugly until later. The original was just an honest commentary.
Brad, well you have six video's on YT now. Is it empowering for you to make everyone else responsible for the theatrics "mocking" or "slandering" and any "ugliness" in the five video's that followed? Are we all now to blame for your conduct?
I am not saying anyone is responsible. I was trying to make the point that if you want to win people over, there are better ways to do so, and alternatives tend to drive others to retaliate. What exactly in my videos do you consider slanderous? I admit to being sarcastic, and at times mocking - all though I did remove one that I considered in poor taste if you didn't notice. If u could tell me the specifics of the slanderous remarks, I will adjust them or atone.
I did by walking out on the F***ng Coach don't you dare attack my conduct, that Coach can go to hell and I will not waste any more of my energy contacting the coach... my actions said it all. You are so quick to back up LM and so quick to Slander anyone that does not agree with that crap. If you are so dedicated you talk to your coach and be real. Plus do you think for a second he cares what "I" have to say..he makes to much money from others MISERY!
Honestly NO2LM I don't think you have the cojones to talk to a person in person. It is easier for you to write swear words and talk tough on line and make lofty justifications like "I will not waste any more of my energy contacting the coach..." That is little league IMO. The big boys go to the person they are uspet with and go toe to toe, man to man, I don't hear or see you doing that. Correct me if I am wrong.
Brad, I agree with ALL your Videos keep up the good work, plus you have done your research and experienced it first hand that gives you every right to you and myself the right to free speach, from what I have experienced with these "Human Robots" is they are a waste of time and energy they exhast you to no end with their "Breakthroughs". Downwards"POP" is disillusioned, why don't you have your videos on here Downwardspop?
You need to recognize that some people come away from the forum very upset and confused. It is natural that they need to express this with someone who has had the same experience. Challenging them with arguments does not help the situatuion. You can attract more flies with honey. Believe me, I would not have made as many videos if I had not felt so provoked. I just wanted to vent, I had the right to do it as I saw fit, and it is not daminging LM one bit. So why not lay off?
Then LM should tell you up front that tuition covers only the workshop, don't expect anything more. My problem with the water is that it creates an inhospitable environment for the participants.
Well, I am sorry for crossing a boundry here. You are right in saying so, however, you did say you were going to refrain from being the attack dog on my postings for people wanting to vent about their experiences. The truth is, I am more compelled to parody LM when I read comments that do not acknowledge another's frustration for an uncomfortable situation with LM.
Of course, this person is dedicated to LM. He said so himself. He has provided volunteer service, and is probably a coach, if not a 32nd degree drone. The man in charge the door monitors at the forum I attended, was a 32nd degree. You can always tell because there is the number 32 follwed by a capital "D" embossed in gold on their name badges. I have read after on the RR forum, that these individuals are told to maintain an expressionless face throughout the forum.
Here is another classic Landmarkian argument. There are comparable seminars that cost a bundle more. Well, they may, but I imagine they don't sell you on continuing other courses or indoctrinating family and friends. This is another clever pet response they have for objections. A Lanmarkian has an answer for any criticism. Is that so unusual? Objective reasoning will only occur if the individual is deprogrammed.
I say that it takes more guts to put your face on for everyone in the world to see. You obviously don't have the guts to do that for your cause, so I think your argument is invalid.
Yea, check out the LM site. They have a seminar led by Landmarkian actors. It promises to you to be able "to act" your way through life any way you want. All at the Ritz Carlton. Go landmark!!!
Posters: You will need to excuse the handle "downswardpop". Don't try to argue with him. He is convinced by giving my opinion on Youtube that I am engaging in H.S. behavior and giving false information. He obviously does not want people to have another opinion about LM. Moreover, this indidual is unstable, using numerous handles. He even offered me an apology on a private letter. He is obviously more to be pitied than censored.
Hello Mandabean08, I have some serious concerns about LM where did someone post most worshipful grand master coach. I would still like to give that damn coach a peice of my mind but in reality he could not give 2 Shi*ts about what I have to say to him, so this is the best way to spread the word.
If it really meant that much to me I would do that... and I did, but unfortunetly it was not the "coach" What is SFC? I have to go for now. What about my question, Why are you so interested and why are you on here?
I have no problem doing that, and if asked I will say the same thing staight up, acually I would even go up on a podium and say what I have to(Imagine that!) I am pretty much exhasted from all this LM crap the only person I would REALLY like to give a piece of my mind to is the "Coach" and I will not take back anything I have said on here. Why are you so interested and why are you on here?
I don't doubt that for a minute, but I am sure they are compeltely different or they are pulling in suckers everyday as well. I think my spuses Boss and his spouse is are awesome nice people and they beleive in it, so each to their own. I am sticking to mine.... I love it that I can express my opinon on LM.
This is not between you and me...I am Angry with the Landmark, what they represent and how they treat people. How long have you been a Landmarkian? So you are right I guess I am angry, nothing personal with you but yes I am angry with LM...if you want to put it that way. I don't called it slander, I call it seeing BS and calling BS when I see it.
You're completely right to do so, and there is nothing wrong with that, nor is it imature or slander. What is imature, are these Landmarkian drones like downwards, who are so afraid of any information of the underbelly of LM getty out. Just ignore him and the other one. There are a lot more critics than landmarkians posting here. That says enough to me.
I certainly did not expect fresh OJ, or overflowing buffets, do not put words in my mouth. $30.00 spent on coffee and to take a PISS when I felt like it would have been would have been "Nice" Here is the problem when one disagrees with another anger starts to stirr...I am not angery just glad it was not for me and noticed it early on. I have it EXACTLY the way I want it, and working on a few little extras. You sound like you are very "Dedicated to Them" Glad it worked for you. LOL
Yes.."Robots" Is that not what they practice we are "empty vessels" Even in Africa they have restaraunts...Downwards"pop"...I think you are "Missing my point" $90,000 not bad for serving water and getting free labour. I didn't complain about no restaurants around. If you enjoy LM all the best to you and everyone else. Cheers
also I requested LM to re-imburse his CC, we will see. They said they would...LOL Iam sure it will not hurt them as they pulled in $90,000 for a 3 day seminar, not bad for serving water, and having robots work for free for them.
Hey Brad! Volunteering? !SHOCK! It's ASSISTING! heh. I think you're doing fine videos. No reason to soften up your approach.Only thing that really annoys me about Landmark is that they are consolidating pre-existing ideas and repackaging it as if it is their intellectual property and creation (they NEVER cite sources). The "coaching" thing you spoke of--there's a thread of AA running through Landmark so they probably stole that word from AA just as they stole "tech" from $cientology. dboy
I walked OUT Landmark after 8hrs and told them to never contact me again...today in the paper in "World Briefs" in France a judge ordered 7 members of "Scientology" to stand trial on organized fraud, a women ( obviously very lost) spend $30,000USD for a cleansing package...Hmmmm wake up people! Landmark appears to be based on the same concept, but they are sneakier, as they only take $600 from you over&over&over again. Plus the mental abuse &manipulation Brad like my new username -Cheers 57chevy
NO2LM, what moved u to register into the TLF in the first place (what did u hope to get out of ur participation in it?) & specifically what had u change ur mind & walk out and tell LE "never to contact" u again? The LF is not for everyone and there are always a few people who leave - I acknowledge ur integrity for doing so rather then staying in it & just going through the motions. Good for u NO2LM. Also, it seems to me that u exercised your own judgement & were not in the least bit manipulated.
My spouses boss paid for it as he is heavily involved, I wanted to overcome my fear of public speaking, irronically the LM "experience" motivated me to do it on my own take the bull by the horns and do it on my own, if i make a fool of myself I will learn from my past experience, NOT forget about it. Many things motivated us to walk out, last straw was how he belittle a few people up on the microphone that were deeply troubled, he was a C**ky B***ard!
That film was obviously biased and in no way reflected my experience with the Forum. Some of the video of what that particular Forum leader said in the seminar was shocking and disturbing. They must do it different in France.
I found it strange that they push enrolling people so much in Landmark, but for them this education has helped them do life altering, amazing things. Wouldn't you want to share that with the people you love?
I hate to burst your bubble, but this was no different than the techniques used in LM in the US. It has since been "reformed" to tone it down. I can verify this as I know a coach who is high ranking in the program. When I told him my concern about the moderator using the word A**hole, he replied, we no longer use scatalogical language in the delivery. That was a real shock for me.
The word "paranoid" has been used quite a bit to label those who dare question the methods of Landmark Education. At what point exactly does criticism turn into paranoia? It seems for Landmarkians, there are NO boundries between the two. This perhaps is more telling than stating, " You seem quite paranoid that the only explanation for why someone like me who was once critical and skeptical of LM would come around."
Brad seems to have deleted some of my responses to his questions. For someone who claims to only want to present LM in an objective light, he seems pretty careful about controlling who comments and what is posted. It is natural for people to be skeptical of a company like Landmark, because what they offer is unique and there's not much in most people's frame of reference to relate it to. But my skepticism was relieved last year when I did more of the work and got to know more of the people.
I think your train of comments and discussions with me and others speak for themselves. At best, they illustrate a certain fanaticism. The question of an unbalanced mental state, I'll leave that to the readers to decide (if there are any, and they may equally judge me). For someone who supposedly shared the same questions that I did coming into the Forum, something sure made a true believer out of you. Under what means this came to be remains my question.
Brad, you have taken the time to create and comment on FIVE anti-Landmark YouTube videos (one of which pictures you trying to teach philosophy to your cat) and somehow I'M the one who is fanatical and mentally unstable? You seem quite paranoid that the only explanation for why someone like me who was once critical and skeptical of LM would "come around" is because I got locked in a room with strobe lights or something creepy like that. Or maybe I just took the time to really think it through...
I don't think anyone is as naive to think that there are any strobe lights involved or getting locked in a room. Thought reform doesn't work like that anyways. I AM FANATIC about telling people about something I find very dangerous. Who wouldn't be? And if you think I haven't investigated, go over to the Rick Ross website and read. There are both good and bad stories. Your comments just justify this fanaticism and my conviction. Can you admit you are a Landmark Fanatic? You're an extremist
It's really sad that in today's world, if someone is passionate about something or, after careful examination and critical thought, finds it worthwhile enough to want to defend it from unfair and uninformed public attacks, they get labeled an "extremist" or "fanatic." There are lots of things I'm passionate about. Law. My family. My country. And the human potential movement (LM's a part of that). If being passionate or taking a stand makes me a "fanatic," oh well. And Rick Ross's site is biased.
These monologues of yours are getting rather old. So this is the last of my responses. Despite your protestations of tolerance and respect for one another, it seems this stops short of anyone criticising Landmark Education. The times you do agree with a point, you simply respond by saying "it's not my company, I just like there product. The closest I got to an agreement was your acknowledgement that the "plants" within landmark participants at the forum were creepy.
Brad, just because we have a difference of opinion doesn't mean I'm not listening or able to understand where you are coming from. It is just that almost all of the opinions you have expressed here are opinions I myself once held, but after doing further research and getting more exposure to what really happens in LM, I eventually reconsidered my point of view. It's too bad you aren't open to doing the same. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're "brainwashed."
Where's your sense of humor, Navy? Can't you appreciate a little parody? I didn't even know there was a hierarchy among volunteers. Thanks for clearing that up. I was making fun of Freemasonary as much as anything. I can't believe you took this or my mafia reference seriously.
Second, your (ill-informed and rather offensive) reference to getting "made" after you encourage 3 people to register for the Forum (as if participating in Landmark bears any resemblance to joining the mafia) is imaginary. You could assist this weekend in Cinci if you really wanted to just by virtue of being a Forum graduate. Yes, the assistants do have a management structure in which some assistants are accountable to others, but registering people has nothing to do with it as far as I know.
Also, Brad, your description of the LM Assisting "hierarchy" is WAAAAAY off. I don't know who gave you that information, but nothing like what you described exists from what I have seen. First, the "monitors" you refer to are called "assistants," and their job isn't to "monitor" anyone (your reference to them as "monitors" struck me as a bit neurotic). Their job is basically to make sure everything in the Forum flows smoothly and there aren't any hiccups or unnecessary distractions.
As for why people work so hard to benefit LM without getting paid, I can only speak from my own experiences. During those times when I assisted, I did so because I actually did feel like my work, "menial" as it might have been, was making a contribution, and I was getting a chance to get real-time feedback on how I was living out LM's distinctions. It feels good to give of yourself. I also enjoyed being in the team's space of positive energy that gets created around these programs.
As for where the money goes, you are correct that there is scant public information about where LM's profits go or how large those profits are.The only information I have on this subject is what I provided from the Harvard study. But as a business analyst I do know this: Landmark is not charging the profit-maximizing price for its product. Similar programs charge over $7,000. Which leads me to conclude that LM is both a profit-driven and altruistically-driven business. That's possible, you know.
Brad, I find your criticism that LM is "taking advantage of emotionally needy people" to be offensively patronizing and reveals a rather gloomy, cynical view of your fellow human beings. I didn't sign up for the Advanced Course or the SELP because of any "emotional addiction," and neither did my classmates. I signed up because I was genuinely interested in learning the material in those courses and applying it to my life within LM's structure. And I got more than the benefits that were promised.
"Too many Americans are leading lives of quiet desperation, afraid to fully express themselves and get in touch with / stand up for what they truly believe in.." your words seem to reveal a rather gloomy, cynical view of your fellow human beings. Listen to yourself, pot, what are you calling the kettle in your above remark?
What is more cynical: expressing an observation that the fear-based culture of the U.S. tends to keep people from reaching for their dreams out of fear that their passion for life will be misperceived as "fanatacism," or taking the view that the American public isn't even capable of making its own spending decisions and therefore needs to be "protected" from organizations like Landmark (before you have even been around Landmark long enough to know what the company is actually up to)?
I understand your concern that LM is robbing needy people of their welfare checks. But your theory here has no basis in reality. Nobody in the 4 LM classes I took last year (over 500 people) fit this description; everyone was there because they saw themselves as getting a benefit that met or exceeded the cost of admission, just as in any other economic transaction. And they were disproportionately sophisticated, professional people. If LM is so addictive, Brad, why aren't either of us addicted?
Well, seeing as I haven't had much to do with Landmark (other than a couple of weekends where I assisted) since completing the SELP last year, I don't see how you can argue that either of us are "addicted" to Landmark's courses. But if LM was really as "dangerous" as you claim, it seems to me that something like that should have happened to at least one of us. They're good courses, but to say they are so good that people need to be "protected" from them is patronizing.
What is patronizing is to assume that people who are economically insecure are any less able to determine what is in their own personal and financial best interests than you or I are. If you are really so concerned with the promotion of addictive behavior that robs the poor, you should be waging a YouTube campaign against the Ohio Lottery, not Landmark Education.
Someone is twisting my words around, Billie. Maybe it's a lawyer? I never said a word about addictive behavior or things that promote addiction. But since Navy brought Landmark up in that context, maybe I should have. My concern was for people who may not be able to resist the landmark hard sell in light of the wonderful product, but according to Navy re: forum participants:
"And they were disproportionately
sophisticated, professional people" So I guess I don't need tp worry about that.
"You could assist this weekend in Cinci if you really wanted to just by virtue of being a Forum graduate." - Navy's words several hours ago. He seemed to be preety up to date. n'est-ce pas?
It is interesting that billybudd finds it much easier to just call someone a "liar" than to deal with what was actually said. If you can't make your case on facts, reason, and logic, there's always the personal attack to fall back on. But it turns out that I was wrong about Cinci. I was just making an assumption that there might be a Forum there this weekend because there happens to be a center there. Like the assumptions Brad makes in his comments and videos, it turned out I was incorrect.
I don't know if there is a Forum in Cinci this weekend. But there is a Center there. You can check the website and see what's going on. Try assisting...if you are willing to put your ego aside, you might find out there is a lot more to be learned from setting up chairs and stuffing envelopes than you ever imagined.
...and I am fully aware that the world needs a lot more than LM for the transformation of human life on the planet earth to become a reality. We urgently need breakthrough research and development in the way humans harness and store energy, or a world war over current energy sources is a possibility. We have to plan and save for our futures more and be reactive to the present moment less. But mostly I think people need to learn to tolerate, listen to, and respect one another, as LM teaches.
How did the world get by without LM? Again, nobody "needs" LM, and neither does the world. We can keep on making ourselves right and other people wrong, fighting wars rather than reconsidering our points of view, viewing selfishness as "normal" and selflessness with suspicion and cynicism. We can all continue to survive like this, and the earth will keep orbiting the sun as it always has. But it doesn't HAVE to be like that if we don't want it to be. It's humanity's collective choice to make.
The reason I would like LM-related subjects like Eastern Philosophy to be taught in schools is because I think America would benefit if the type of paradigm shift LM offers could happen on a mass scale. Too many Americans are leading lives of quiet desperation, afraid to fully express themselves and get in touch with / stand up for what they truly believe in because they worry that someone will think them weird or even question their mental health (as you did to me here) for being enthusiastic.
Brad, I appreciate that you are trying to inform yourself on the topic of LM before posting videos to YouTube. But I'm disappointed that you apparently view my dedication to the human potential movement (of which LM is a part) as "overzealousness" that causes you to question my "mental health." There are many things in life I am passionate about. LM / human potential happens to be one of them. Some people want to live their lives with periods and commas; I personally prefer exclamation points.
Thanks for your words. you are entitled to being self righteous and angry and saying what you think that's what being American is all about. Re: the videos, I guess I was improvising something, I was just being myself giving my viewpoint (and yes, seeking a little attention in the process) but I do respect your opinions. Hasta luego
Thank you for your posting. It should be known that Dr. Fowler was the former EVP and CEO. Also, the article was written in 2000 at the request of LM and therefore may represent a biased view. I reccomend balancing that with the panel of psychologists on the French Documentary Listed on my page.
I noticed that you are an active member of an Episcopal Parish. I thought you would be interested in this quote.
"Landmark's programs have enabled me to be more effective in dealing with both my personal and religious commitments. Without addressing religion or theology, Landmark's programs have had an impact on my life that has expanded over many years and have enhanced my experience and practice of my faith."
Thank you for bringing Bishop's Charles endorsement of Landmark to my attention. I am sure the Bishop's statement is well intended and true for him. However, I do not see how a program "without addressing religion or theology" could enable the Bishop to be more effective in his religious commitments and his experience and practice of his faith. Also, the existential philosophy used in LM is not compatible with the Christian Faith and I am sure Sartre and Camus would agree.
the thing about Landmark is that they love VOLUNTEERS. Volunteer for this, for that, including office work, janitorial, inhouse security....many Counselors say they dont get pay at all. So many students lend a hand to this great cause for human transformation.
Erick2044 1 year ago
Awsome!! Thanks for the wonderful insight. I have spoken to many others who hold the same exact opinion as you pertaining to the Forum. You are truly helping others not get sucked in and ripped off. Thanks again :-) and yes, our friends at the top are enjoying their company private jets flying them to their private (company owned) island(s)
mikedpker45 1 year ago 5
If you are heavily involved in LM and there is a bell ringing in your head, that there is something wrong, trust your inner self, It is trying to save you. Gather all your energy, fight all the resistance, Leave the premises ASAP, and save your soul.
SmrutiR 2 years ago 15
I may be mistaken but I think you have got your wires crossed with regard to levels - what you are describing sounds like freemasons. 32nd degree drone is definitely freemason (google it yourself)
standinginnothing 2 years ago
Well, I confess that I was being a bit tongue and cheek regarding this comparison between the masons and LM to parody the secrecy of the organization. I thought people would pick up on that.
bradbavarde 2 years ago
oh, ok. thanks for clearing that up. I certainly dont know much about Freemasons so I guess only those in the know about secret organisations will have got that one. I dont see any secrecy in the organisation myself. The only secrecy is not disclosing names of participants to anyone outside but I guess this is data protection. Straight talking, authentic people who live from their word - I guess that seems weird in a society that lacks integrity on the whole and who deem lying to be acceptable.
standinginnothing 2 years ago
Landmark is a Pyramid $cheme to get your money and mess with your mind. It's what Capitalism is all about.
canaan1967 2 years ago 6
My goo friend goes to Landmark to "assist" in intro courses an to 3 day events. She has been doing this for years. She even offered to pay the $600 US (about) for me to go to a 3 day forum I told her no. She;s retired and living on a small pension and social security with no assets and renting a small apartment. I tried talking to her about this and she says that she is not that deeply involve in it an still can think independently. She has no critical skills and is too accepting of things
canaan1967 2 years ago 5
If most of the business of landmark is run 90% if not more by volunteers, some smart business man gets all the money then, and what do you get? ripped off maybe. I'm very suspicious even if my friend recommends it.
PerQx 2 years ago 2
Are these so called leaders or organizers even licensed or have degrees!!!(AKA est-holes)
JefeBaxter 2 years ago
...continued) If a Jazz band entertains 1000 people at a venue and 500 people felt that music changed their lives and 500 felt the saxophonist was brainwashing them, should you do an investigation? Landmark, like many other art forms, changes peoples lives. People can spend as much money as they want on their art preferences. If a beautician wants to spend her life saving on a painting, can you understand that this is not your concern? Is it my concern how financially feasible you choices are?
TheCommonData 2 years ago
Yes, but the point is that the dynamics involved in the forum experience are set up in such a way that psychologically, it is nearly impossible for those who have been won over to walk away with just one product. They become dependent emotionally. The emotional dependence along with the strong arm sales techniques are what I take issue with, but as is said, there is a sucker born every minute.
bradbavarde 2 years ago
It's simple: The money goes to the employees as with any other job. It's just the way jobs work. Its not my business how much you make nor is it yours how much anyone's money goes. Second: If you want to volunteer at a soup kitchen, that's your decision. Something about that opportunity moves you. The people volunteering at the Forum chose that. It is their right, no? Third: FAR too many people internationally are benefiting from this stuff for you knock it so animately. (will continue...)
TheCommonData 2 years ago
i must say as someone who went through most of the courses that i am able to view it cynically [as you do, if i may say so] and in great suspicion but i also acknoledge the GOOD that they do. Therefore, I'm not here nor there, which, in my opinion, a rare point of view of landmark education.
booksmeller 2 years ago
I don't think I've ever said that Landmark hasn't helped some people. I do think it works for a certain personality. But you are right in saying there is a lot of "sketchy" aspects. I would begin to question why it is referred to as "technology".........?
bradbavarde 2 years ago
Because it is technical. It is not psychological in the deep sense of the word. It works on very shallow problems of how you function and how to change your attitude. It cannot reach the deep 'fucks' we have in our lives. Therefore - it is considered to be a 'technology'. That's my point of view anyway. I've gotten what I could use from there but I was yet complete [nor will I ever be]. Have I somehow answered your question?
booksmeller 2 years ago
p.s. it's important to know that indeed, most of the business of landmark is run 90% if not more by volunteers [i've been one for 2 years, a few years ago] but there is a highter team of paid employees of landmark - those 'chosen ones' who convinced the 'upper league' of landmark of their high level of commitment and belief in the technology. i've so much to say about your videos, these tiny white boxes are not enough.
booksmeller 2 years ago
as someone who's been deep in landmark's technology for two years, i share your doubts. i know from personal information that all landmark employees are paid quite poorly in regard to the amount of personal investment they give in their work. yeah, i don't know where the money is going. i understand the need to explore to 'sketchy' elements of the company. yet, why not just take the tools you see fit yourself best and say goodbye. that's what i did - i took what worked for me and moved on.
booksmeller 2 years ago 3
Brad,I appreciate your Honest expressions of your own personal experience with this particular organization! You are doing a great service to many people and I am glad for your video,and the truths you tell in it! Cheers!!!
monkeyeagle 2 years ago
Note: I attended an introduction the other day and I was quoted a harvard research project as well. I'm wondering if the same person at harvard is responsible for both of these studies.
CultKiLLa 2 years ago
I did Forum, Advanced and SELP, volunteered too. After a week of harassment, I didn't walk away, I ran. Landmark is purposefully designed to be addictive to the individual and viral throughout society. They spend half the time brainwashing/abusing you, and the other half getting you to recruit others. It's like Amway, but the product they're selling is your own serotonin. Brad, you're way too easy on them. Let's call a spade a spade: If it looks like a cult and feels like a cult...
myxolydianinflorida 2 years ago 7
I would compare Landmark/est to a Snickers bar. If you paid your money and got something out of it, you have an even transaction. Like with the Snickers Bar, I don't care if some high muckety-muck is taking his share of the profits (from est or Snickers) and banging his secretary on his private jet. It's not my concern. And likewise, I can overdo it and overdose on est or Snickers (and turn myself into an est-hole or a lard-ass). That's not anybody else's fault but mine if I'm a mature adult.
taiji218 2 years ago
Whatever gets you through the day, I guess.
bradbavarde 2 years ago
awesome term: est-hole.
so true. I can't stand the smarmy "got it" est-holes that pace around these corporate centers with their poles out fishing for stuff. strange fetish. but hey, that's they're thing.
You made a great analogy though.
UserNameAlpha 2 years ago 4
Brad, You have a tremendous amount of charisma and likeability. I would love to see you use your talents and focus your great energy on something positive in your life. You're a natural leader.
kwikshooter 2 years ago
That's very kind of you to say so. I realize that not everyone agrees that these videos are not the most positive use of my talents, but many people have written to me in gratitude for them, so in a way I feel these clips are a good outlet for those characteristics you described.
bradbavarde 2 years ago
i took the est training in 79 i took it mainly because friends were doing it they were adamant salespeople that were sold a bill of goods i was sceptical it seemed like if i got it maybe it would rub off on them. i did learn the power of hypnosis and brainwashing.brainwashing is a positive if youve been programmed wrong but they try to program you to be slaves to them
BigBishop1 2 years ago
I like your videos. And you are good for the camera. Cheers!
I hate all sects and brainwashers and fraud- lovers!
doridora 2 years ago
Thanks! Spread the word about Landmark!
bradbavarde 2 years ago
it's sad how many brainwashed people are commenting on your vids. keep it up, you are very eloquent and present very clear, cogent arguments. landmark prays on the week, and when you have suffered, and have traumas, it is easy to get seduced.
vagisil4eva 2 years ago
Thanks. It is funny that just because I am critical of LM, the Landmarkians have labled me as "lonely and sad and small" LOL
bradbavarde 2 years ago
This is a pyramid scheme, plain and simple. And pyramid schemes are for suckers.
toobyu2859 2 years ago
I've gotten a few comments lately about the forum monitors. The folks at Landmark say, they open the door to make it easier for participants and to avoid noise. This has been said over and over in defense of the monitor system. The truth is, that the various monitor roles: door guard, water bearers, those who report non-compliant participants are all carefully spelled out in a document called the "Forum Protocol".
bradbavarde 2 years ago
I have assisted many times as a monitor and can assure you that participants are not monitored or reported. The monitors are there to assist and to maintain the integrity of the space in the room, which is essential for transformation. The monitors on the door stop people wandering into the room and open and close the doors quietly so that they dont bang everytime someone goes to the toilet.
standinginnothing 2 years ago
Why aren't the doors fixed then? I can get felt at the dollar store.
anotheraka 2 years ago
You bring up a lot of really great points Brad. One thing that should be made clear is that Landmark Forum is not a self help course. It is a weekend long discourse designed to facilitate inquiries into what works in life and what doesn't. It is not therapy, or even related to it.
talkinghead22 2 years ago 6
You remind me of the one and only GORDON RAMSEY!!!!
kris8454 2 years ago
Where does all the money you make go? Do you eat? Have electricity or water come to your house?
willward1966 2 years ago 13
What the heck does this mean?????
bradbavarde 2 years ago
You say you are concerned about were the profits of the company go.
It means people and business are the same. They require money to pay for their lights, phones, computers, electricity, flights, their 401K's, and then if there is money left over they pay themselves the profits or save it or invest in growing the company.
Is it wrong for private colleges to make money?
willward1966 2 years ago 10
Yes, this argument is given a lot. And it would be valid, but Landmark is operated mostly by volunteers who are not paid A DIME. The guy who recruited me travels all over with a group spending his own money, and buddy, he can't afford it. When most of the labor is free, the overhead can't be very much.
bradbavarde 2 years ago
Comment removed
youregow 2 years ago 19
I actually mean no disrespect when I say that every word of this video after 6:20 is crap. Not one word of this Volunteer Hierarchy", or what qualifies a person to be a coach, or ANY requirement to register ANYONE into ANY program is true. Landmark Education makes u no promises, gives u nothing to believe in & encourages u 2 be more involved & in depth with your family & friends. Cults don't do that, they want to take u away from them. It is clear that YOU have never ACTUALLY dont the course.
xbigtrapx 3 years ago
No disrespect taken. I thought it was clear that I was joking, and just making fun of my crticism itself.
bradbavarde 3 years ago
Volunteerism is encouraged in cults so they can keep the income for the founder.
AwakenToYourTruth 3 years ago 7
Quote from the guy who founded Landmark:
"I need to see that I am a con man before I can see my true value.
-Werner Erhard
As cited in the book, Outrageous Betrayal by Steven Pressman.
bradbavarde 3 years ago
Brad, I think the perspective one takes in their interpretation of this quote is important. At some level all human beings are a con, representing themselves in a way that is at least on some level dishonest or a misrepresentation. Acknowledging your own darkside/"con" side is imperative before getting to one's "true self" Werner Erhard and Landmark education are far from the only organization/movement that acknowledges this idea.
tlouisam 3 years ago
I have been researching the life and work of Werner Erhard aka Jack Rosenberg who founded Landmark Education. This will be the topic of an upcoming video, and I promise the information you will hear will astound you!
bradbavarde 3 years ago
I encourage you to read the book "Transformation of a man" if you can get hold of it. I mananged to get it through the library.
standinginnothing 2 years ago
Hi Brad, thanks for the video. I was wondering if you could tell me the EXACT name of that french doc you mentioned? I would be curious to see it.
Thanks
notime4crumbs 3 years ago
it was voyage to the land of the new gurus
all in french but really shocking
Gleavage09 2 years ago
Thank you very much bradbavarde for posting these videos, you are doing a great service to the public in getting the word out about this controversial organization and its methods.
gurutruth 3 years ago 5
I appreciate your acknowledgement!
bradbavarde 3 years ago
Yes, uproariousfun, you are right on Scientologist using mind control tactics are scary as hell. As for you not posting anymore comments, let's just say, I'm not going to hold my breath. You've siad that before under a different handle.
bradbavarde 3 years ago
Brad, I will not be posting any more comments-you Scientologish deleting comments mind control tactics are scary as hell! I think everybody should be scared but hey...if "some people" get value from your behavior, I am happy for them.
uproariousfun 3 years ago
there is a BIG difference. These rules apply to YOU only. Let's just say you're in a virtual "time out" for the moment.
bradbavarde 3 years ago
Readers, if the postings do not make since, it is because I have had to remove a Landmarkian who can not maintain his integrity by swtiching and closing accounts again and again. This is an obvious attempt at confusing issues and "bull-baiting" which is a Scientologist's term for harassment.
bradbavarde 3 years ago
oh and bradbavarde, I am just curious, 'cutting off posters from other views', 'making up new rules of conduct for the message board to cater to your point of view as you go' and 'disregarding everyone else's interest but your own'....Brad, what Scientology tactic are you using here? *scrambles to brilliant factual Rick Ross message board to see if bradbavarde is listed at a perpetrator and if he has any history of victimizing others using these mind control tactics*.
uproariousfun 3 years ago
there is a BIG difference. These rules apply to YOU only. Let's just say you're in a virtual "time out" for the moment.
bradbavarde 3 years ago
Comment removed
billybudd66666 3 years ago
Comment removed
billybudd66666 3 years ago
The answer is simple Jack Rosenburg STILL gets virtually ALL the money. ALL roads lead to Jack in the box!.. lol
Ding, dong!... It's a good old fashioned CULT with a good old fashioned cult LEADER.. hee, haw.
The TOP forum leaders make maybe 40g a year and work 24/7.. lol
tbgx1 3 years ago 2
Wow, I guess I owe the forum leaders an apology. I was sure they got a bigger cut than that. I hope they at least get a bonus per recruit to the advanced course!
bradbavarde 3 years ago
60g top in 90's, doubt it's more now., It's basically a volunteer organization. They have to keep the pay low so they can be sure the"leaders" are not doing it for money but out of love. If you're really privileged and female you get to be Jacks personal servant with the special job of massaging his feet when he wakes up and before he goes to bed
Of course other side of story is that Jack is a great and enlightened person who is here to heal the world so why wouldn't u want to help with that?
tbgx1 3 years ago
"Werner" lives out of country in lap of luxury yet has not had a job in 40yrs!.. pretty neat trick. W.E. is the company "reinvestment."
My father ran his own EST knock off organization after studying with Werner. With 2 to 4 "managers" and a constant rotation of maybe 30 "sales person" volunteers (door to door all purpose cleaner sellers) What they made barely covered price of "life training" room and board
He pulled in 3 to 6 hundred G a yr for 25years!
Not bad 4 a drop out with gift of gab!
tbgx1 3 years ago 4
What tbgx1 says is true, they don't make much $, they do it because they are set to ~transform the world~
And the don't get any bonuses for high enrollment, they just get brow-beat (or rather coached) if their numbers are low.
Have you read Outrageous Betrayal yet? It's a real eye-opener. Of course others would say it's..........you guessed it gossip, slander, and/or mocking. hehe
billybudd66666 3 years ago
I haven't had time to read it yet. I did watch "Transformation" on my on demand. What's the story behind that. i almost felt sorry for Werner, but then I saw where he is living.
bradbavarde 3 years ago
Interesting, thanks for posting.
bradbavarde 3 years ago
Comment removed
billybudd66666 3 years ago
Comment removed
billybudd66666 3 years ago
Well said Billy! He seems to have this obsession with the word "mocking". Isn't he also mocking us by changing his name all the time? I think he started all this mocking in the first place. "The Mockingbird still's singing..."
bradbavarde 3 years ago
Comment removed
billybudd66666 3 years ago
I think I am going to remove any comments if the account is closed. I want to discourage this behavior. If he can't maintain a stable identity, then he has no credibility in making comments here. So, if he keeps an account open, he may post away, otherwise he's deleted.
bradbavarde 3 years ago
Yes, but with you, it has everything to do with Landmark. And BTW you are always open to express your views as I have said many times before as I have via the same avenue. You have said the same things over and over and over again. Sometimes with almost the same words.
bradbavarde 3 years ago
Comment removed
billybudd66666 3 years ago
I think he may be assuming more names to appear as though he is more than one person. But the arguments are always the same as you and I know. Or he has been blocked so many times on other boards, that it is necessary.
bradbavarde 3 years ago
Comment removed
billybudd66666 3 years ago
Lorrieload, please note the comment on the final video from stonefishman. It is a very healthy and positive comment about a positive experience at Landmark. You may want to take note if you want to win friends and influence people. But somehow, I don't think that is your goal.
bradbavarde 3 years ago
bradbavarde, I had no "goal". I simply repeatedly pointed out that u were using harassment, gossip, mockery @ other people's expense to draw attention to urself & using baseless, distorted accusations & words w no accuracy to VENT & act out ur issues/grievances, all self justfied because somebody did something YOU did not LIKE. If stonefishman posts much more u will be mocking him & questioning his mentalhealth as u have others. MY 'goals'? YOU are the 1 w 6 video's on YT mocking & smearing LE.
downbelowroad 3 years ago
Comment removed
billybudd66666 3 years ago
No, as this person expressed his experience in a positive way without accusing me or being aggresive, I was just more open to understanding what he had to say. You, on the otherhand are so defensive that you close yourself off from the possibility of having others empathize with your point of view. Any additional postings will be fine, but I know that he will not be arguing with me because we have both agreed that LM was good for him. His note made this possible, through his kind openess.
bradbavarde 3 years ago
Continue the great videos, people need to see LM as a gateway into more serious cults like Scientology which was the grandfather of Landmark : scientology, then EST, then LM.
15generationUS 3 years ago
15generationus...I could not agree more
NO2LM 3 years ago
Lorrie, my boss was nuts and forced us to attend a brainwashing session, among many other things, as our "training". Normal people don't force this type of thing on others, let alone their employees who are already in a subordinate, somewhat powerless position. He was crazy. What don't you understand? I don't know that I've ever left a comment on YouTube before this one, just cruising through and saw something that struck a nerve. You can take your gleeful mocking of me and go elsewhere.
tinchro 3 years ago
Brad, totally agree with your comments. My ex-boss asked (forced) all his employees to attend the Landmark Forum here in Chicago, the SELP, and other programs, and then spoke to his employees in this Landmark language. He did pay for this, however, it very much creeped us all out. The forcing of attendees to invite others to the Tuesday night was unbelievable! Who are you being? Who are being!? You're being unwelcoming. Try this on. Be welcoming. There's your breakthrough.
tinchro 3 years ago
tinchro, thanks for posting your comment. I forgot the "who are you being" and "try this on" landmarkese. Each time someone shares a story as you did, I feel I am not alone in my feelings or that I am being too hard on an organization that is "helping people make a difference" There is defintely something funny going on, or should I say funny business?
bradbavarde 3 years ago
Hi Brad, How goes the battle? Just came on here again to see if you made any new videos as they are all great, nice to see common sense still exists.
NO2LM 3 years ago
hello Tincro, when you say EX-boss was there a problem after the cousrse or was it something different? All last week I was on here making comments...that just exhasted me, I am just curious, as I was in a similar situation.
NO2LM 3 years ago
Comment removed
billybudd66666 3 years ago
Comment removed
billybudd66666 3 years ago
Comment removed
billybudd66666 3 years ago
and let's not forget Jim's video response using his power of intuition to see into my lonely life! Hehe..... I am going to be very busy soon with some classes. Maybe another will make a video and move the party.
bradbavarde 3 years ago
Comment removed
billybudd66666 3 years ago
what video?
bradbavarde 3 years ago
Comment removed
billybudd66666 3 years ago
"bradbavarde, you are trash and a common parasite who creates SFA in life ot brag about but attaches himself to something in the public eye to draw attention to his sad life. Keep feeding of those who are working hard to have your brief hollow moment of glee. There are jerks like you sliming every possible community on line. Without the object of your slander you got nothing!"
This was YOUR comment on my first video, I don't think u have any room to talk about maturity and constructive crit.
bradbavarde 3 years ago
bradbavarde - yikes - that is a bit out there! Even though that is *embarrassing* in the context of this conversation, I have backed away from that kind of hostility of mine and feel yes, we can have a conversation about maturity and constructive crit in the present. Yes?
downwardspop 3 years ago
I think if you watch my first video, I do not see how I was mocking or slandering at all. Things didn't get ugly until later. The original was just an honest commentary.
bradbavarde 3 years ago
Brad, well you have six video's on YT now. Is it empowering for you to make everyone else responsible for the theatrics "mocking" or "slandering" and any "ugliness" in the five video's that followed? Are we all now to blame for your conduct?
downwardspop 3 years ago
I am not saying anyone is responsible. I was trying to make the point that if you want to win people over, there are better ways to do so, and alternatives tend to drive others to retaliate. What exactly in my videos do you consider slanderous? I admit to being sarcastic, and at times mocking - all though I did remove one that I considered in poor taste if you didn't notice. If u could tell me the specifics of the slanderous remarks, I will adjust them or atone.
bradbavarde 3 years ago
P.S. If you REALLY want to do something useful donate to AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL now that is worth spending money on and MUCH more rewarding
NO2LM 3 years ago 2
I did by walking out on the F***ng Coach don't you dare attack my conduct, that Coach can go to hell and I will not waste any more of my energy contacting the coach... my actions said it all. You are so quick to back up LM and so quick to Slander anyone that does not agree with that crap. If you are so dedicated you talk to your coach and be real. Plus do you think for a second he cares what "I" have to say..he makes to much money from others MISERY!
NO2LM 3 years ago 2
Honestly NO2LM I don't think you have the cojones to talk to a person in person. It is easier for you to write swear words and talk tough on line and make lofty justifications like "I will not waste any more of my energy contacting the coach..." That is little league IMO. The big boys go to the person they are uspet with and go toe to toe, man to man, I don't hear or see you doing that. Correct me if I am wrong.
downwardspop 3 years ago
Brad, I agree with ALL your Videos keep up the good work, plus you have done your research and experienced it first hand that gives you every right to you and myself the right to free speach, from what I have experienced with these "Human Robots" is they are a waste of time and energy they exhast you to no end with their "Breakthroughs". Downwards"POP" is disillusioned, why don't you have your videos on here Downwardspop?
NO2LM 3 years ago
You need to recognize that some people come away from the forum very upset and confused. It is natural that they need to express this with someone who has had the same experience. Challenging them with arguments does not help the situatuion. You can attract more flies with honey. Believe me, I would not have made as many videos if I had not felt so provoked. I just wanted to vent, I had the right to do it as I saw fit, and it is not daminging LM one bit. So why not lay off?
bradbavarde 3 years ago
Then LM should tell you up front that tuition covers only the workshop, don't expect anything more. My problem with the water is that it creates an inhospitable environment for the participants.
bradbavarde 3 years ago
Well, I am sorry for crossing a boundry here. You are right in saying so, however, you did say you were going to refrain from being the attack dog on my postings for people wanting to vent about their experiences. The truth is, I am more compelled to parody LM when I read comments that do not acknowledge another's frustration for an uncomfortable situation with LM.
bradbavarde 3 years ago
Of course, this person is dedicated to LM. He said so himself. He has provided volunteer service, and is probably a coach, if not a 32nd degree drone. The man in charge the door monitors at the forum I attended, was a 32nd degree. You can always tell because there is the number 32 follwed by a capital "D" embossed in gold on their name badges. I have read after on the RR forum, that these individuals are told to maintain an expressionless face throughout the forum.
bradbavarde 3 years ago
Here is another classic Landmarkian argument. There are comparable seminars that cost a bundle more. Well, they may, but I imagine they don't sell you on continuing other courses or indoctrinating family and friends. This is another clever pet response they have for objections. A Lanmarkian has an answer for any criticism. Is that so unusual? Objective reasoning will only occur if the individual is deprogrammed.
bradbavarde 3 years ago
I say that it takes more guts to put your face on for everyone in the world to see. You obviously don't have the guts to do that for your cause, so I think your argument is invalid.
bradbavarde 3 years ago
Ligitimate criticims of Landmark do not constitute slander. Shut-up already, and go to a forum to get complete with yourself.
bradbavarde 3 years ago
Yea, check out the LM site. They have a seminar led by Landmarkian actors. It promises to you to be able "to act" your way through life any way you want. All at the Ritz Carlton. Go landmark!!!
bradbavarde 3 years ago
Posters: You will need to excuse the handle "downswardpop". Don't try to argue with him. He is convinced by giving my opinion on Youtube that I am engaging in H.S. behavior and giving false information. He obviously does not want people to have another opinion about LM. Moreover, this indidual is unstable, using numerous handles. He even offered me an apology on a private letter. He is obviously more to be pitied than censored.
bradbavarde 3 years ago
most worshipful grand master coach?? are you kidding me?? lol
mandabean08 3 years ago
Hello Mandabean08, I have some serious concerns about LM where did someone post most worshipful grand master coach. I would still like to give that damn coach a peice of my mind but in reality he could not give 2 Shi*ts about what I have to say to him, so this is the best way to spread the word.
NO2LM 3 years ago
lol - brad says it in the above video
mandabean08 3 years ago
ohhh, did you take the LM course?
NO2LM 3 years ago
Thanks for your comments. I am worried about your friend. That sounds sad. If you go, buyer beware!
bradbavarde 3 years ago
omg my friend also goes to cincinnati and chicago all the time lol
mandabean08 3 years ago
I wonder if your friend knows my friend? Send me a personal note.
bradbavarde 3 years ago
If it really meant that much to me I would do that... and I did, but unfortunetly it was not the "coach" What is SFC? I have to go for now. What about my question, Why are you so interested and why are you on here?
NO2LM 3 years ago
I have no problem doing that, and if asked I will say the same thing staight up, acually I would even go up on a podium and say what I have to(Imagine that!) I am pretty much exhasted from all this LM crap the only person I would REALLY like to give a piece of my mind to is the "Coach" and I will not take back anything I have said on here. Why are you so interested and why are you on here?
NO2LM 3 years ago
I don't doubt that for a minute, but I am sure they are compeltely different or they are pulling in suckers everyday as well. I think my spuses Boss and his spouse is are awesome nice people and they beleive in it, so each to their own. I am sticking to mine.... I love it that I can express my opinon on LM.
NO2LM 3 years ago
This is not between you and me...I am Angry with the Landmark, what they represent and how they treat people. How long have you been a Landmarkian? So you are right I guess I am angry, nothing personal with you but yes I am angry with LM...if you want to put it that way. I don't called it slander, I call it seeing BS and calling BS when I see it.
NO2LM 3 years ago
You're completely right to do so, and there is nothing wrong with that, nor is it imature or slander. What is imature, are these Landmarkian drones like downwards, who are so afraid of any information of the underbelly of LM getty out. Just ignore him and the other one. There are a lot more critics than landmarkians posting here. That says enough to me.
bradbavarde 3 years ago
I certainly did not expect fresh OJ, or overflowing buffets, do not put words in my mouth. $30.00 spent on coffee and to take a PISS when I felt like it would have been would have been "Nice" Here is the problem when one disagrees with another anger starts to stirr...I am not angery just glad it was not for me and noticed it early on. I have it EXACTLY the way I want it, and working on a few little extras. You sound like you are very "Dedicated to Them" Glad it worked for you. LOL
NO2LM 3 years ago
Yes.."Robots" Is that not what they practice we are "empty vessels" Even in Africa they have restaraunts...Downwards"pop"...I think you are "Missing my point" $90,000 not bad for serving water and getting free labour. I didn't complain about no restaurants around. If you enjoy LM all the best to you and everyone else. Cheers
NO2LM 3 years ago
also I requested LM to re-imburse his CC, we will see. They said they would...LOL Iam sure it will not hurt them as they pulled in $90,000 for a 3 day seminar, not bad for serving water, and having robots work for free for them.
NO2LM 3 years ago
Hey Brad! Volunteering? !SHOCK! It's ASSISTING! heh. I think you're doing fine videos. No reason to soften up your approach.Only thing that really annoys me about Landmark is that they are consolidating pre-existing ideas and repackaging it as if it is their intellectual property and creation (they NEVER cite sources). The "coaching" thing you spoke of--there's a thread of AA running through Landmark so they probably stole that word from AA just as they stole "tech" from $cientology. dboy
dboy
Dboy66 3 years ago
I walked OUT Landmark after 8hrs and told them to never contact me again...today in the paper in "World Briefs" in France a judge ordered 7 members of "Scientology" to stand trial on organized fraud, a women ( obviously very lost) spend $30,000USD for a cleansing package...Hmmmm wake up people! Landmark appears to be based on the same concept, but they are sneakier, as they only take $600 from you over&over&over again. Plus the mental abuse &manipulation Brad like my new username -Cheers 57chevy
NO2LM 3 years ago
NO2LM, what moved u to register into the TLF in the first place (what did u hope to get out of ur participation in it?) & specifically what had u change ur mind & walk out and tell LE "never to contact" u again? The LF is not for everyone and there are always a few people who leave - I acknowledge ur integrity for doing so rather then staying in it & just going through the motions. Good for u NO2LM. Also, it seems to me that u exercised your own judgement & were not in the least bit manipulated.
downwardspop 3 years ago
My spouses boss paid for it as he is heavily involved, I wanted to overcome my fear of public speaking, irronically the LM "experience" motivated me to do it on my own take the bull by the horns and do it on my own, if i make a fool of myself I will learn from my past experience, NOT forget about it. Many things motivated us to walk out, last straw was how he belittle a few people up on the microphone that were deeply troubled, he was a C**ky B***ard!
NO2LM 3 years ago
That film was obviously biased and in no way reflected my experience with the Forum. Some of the video of what that particular Forum leader said in the seminar was shocking and disturbing. They must do it different in France.
I found it strange that they push enrolling people so much in Landmark, but for them this education has helped them do life altering, amazing things. Wouldn't you want to share that with the people you love?
WayneHughes86 3 years ago
I hate to burst your bubble, but this was no different than the techniques used in LM in the US. It has since been "reformed" to tone it down. I can verify this as I know a coach who is high ranking in the program. When I told him my concern about the moderator using the word A**hole, he replied, we no longer use scatalogical language in the delivery. That was a real shock for me.
Sharing is one thing, marketing another.
bradbavarde 3 years ago
The word "paranoid" has been used quite a bit to label those who dare question the methods of Landmark Education. At what point exactly does criticism turn into paranoia? It seems for Landmarkians, there are NO boundries between the two. This perhaps is more telling than stating, " You seem quite paranoid that the only explanation for why someone like me who was once critical and skeptical of LM would come around."
bradbavarde 3 years ago
Brad seems to have deleted some of my responses to his questions. For someone who claims to only want to present LM in an objective light, he seems pretty careful about controlling who comments and what is posted. It is natural for people to be skeptical of a company like Landmark, because what they offer is unique and there's not much in most people's frame of reference to relate it to. But my skepticism was relieved last year when I did more of the work and got to know more of the people.
navygolf11198 3 years ago
I think your train of comments and discussions with me and others speak for themselves. At best, they illustrate a certain fanaticism. The question of an unbalanced mental state, I'll leave that to the readers to decide (if there are any, and they may equally judge me). For someone who supposedly shared the same questions that I did coming into the Forum, something sure made a true believer out of you. Under what means this came to be remains my question.
bradbavarde 3 years ago
Brad, you have taken the time to create and comment on FIVE anti-Landmark YouTube videos (one of which pictures you trying to teach philosophy to your cat) and somehow I'M the one who is fanatical and mentally unstable? You seem quite paranoid that the only explanation for why someone like me who was once critical and skeptical of LM would "come around" is because I got locked in a room with strobe lights or something creepy like that. Or maybe I just took the time to really think it through...
navygolf11198 3 years ago
I don't think anyone is as naive to think that there are any strobe lights involved or getting locked in a room. Thought reform doesn't work like that anyways. I AM FANATIC about telling people about something I find very dangerous. Who wouldn't be? And if you think I haven't investigated, go over to the Rick Ross website and read. There are both good and bad stories. Your comments just justify this fanaticism and my conviction. Can you admit you are a Landmark Fanatic? You're an extremist
bradbavarde 3 years ago
It's really sad that in today's world, if someone is passionate about something or, after careful examination and critical thought, finds it worthwhile enough to want to defend it from unfair and uninformed public attacks, they get labeled an "extremist" or "fanatic." There are lots of things I'm passionate about. Law. My family. My country. And the human potential movement (LM's a part of that). If being passionate or taking a stand makes me a "fanatic," oh well. And Rick Ross's site is biased.
navygolf11198 3 years ago
These monologues of yours are getting rather old. So this is the last of my responses. Despite your protestations of tolerance and respect for one another, it seems this stops short of anyone criticising Landmark Education. The times you do agree with a point, you simply respond by saying "it's not my company, I just like there product. The closest I got to an agreement was your acknowledgement that the "plants" within landmark participants at the forum were creepy.
bradbavarde 3 years ago
Brad, just because we have a difference of opinion doesn't mean I'm not listening or able to understand where you are coming from. It is just that almost all of the opinions you have expressed here are opinions I myself once held, but after doing further research and getting more exposure to what really happens in LM, I eventually reconsidered my point of view. It's too bad you aren't open to doing the same. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're "brainwashed."
navygolf11198 3 years ago
Where's your sense of humor, Navy? Can't you appreciate a little parody? I didn't even know there was a hierarchy among volunteers. Thanks for clearing that up. I was making fun of Freemasonary as much as anything. I can't believe you took this or my mafia reference seriously.
bradbavarde 3 years ago
Second, your (ill-informed and rather offensive) reference to getting "made" after you encourage 3 people to register for the Forum (as if participating in Landmark bears any resemblance to joining the mafia) is imaginary. You could assist this weekend in Cinci if you really wanted to just by virtue of being a Forum graduate. Yes, the assistants do have a management structure in which some assistants are accountable to others, but registering people has nothing to do with it as far as I know.
navygolf11198 3 years ago
Also, Brad, your description of the LM Assisting "hierarchy" is WAAAAAY off. I don't know who gave you that information, but nothing like what you described exists from what I have seen. First, the "monitors" you refer to are called "assistants," and their job isn't to "monitor" anyone (your reference to them as "monitors" struck me as a bit neurotic). Their job is basically to make sure everything in the Forum flows smoothly and there aren't any hiccups or unnecessary distractions.
navygolf11198 3 years ago
As for why people work so hard to benefit LM without getting paid, I can only speak from my own experiences. During those times when I assisted, I did so because I actually did feel like my work, "menial" as it might have been, was making a contribution, and I was getting a chance to get real-time feedback on how I was living out LM's distinctions. It feels good to give of yourself. I also enjoyed being in the team's space of positive energy that gets created around these programs.
navygolf11198 3 years ago
As for where the money goes, you are correct that there is scant public information about where LM's profits go or how large those profits are.The only information I have on this subject is what I provided from the Harvard study. But as a business analyst I do know this: Landmark is not charging the profit-maximizing price for its product. Similar programs charge over $7,000. Which leads me to conclude that LM is both a profit-driven and altruistically-driven business. That's possible, you know.
navygolf11198 3 years ago
Brad, I find your criticism that LM is "taking advantage of emotionally needy people" to be offensively patronizing and reveals a rather gloomy, cynical view of your fellow human beings. I didn't sign up for the Advanced Course or the SELP because of any "emotional addiction," and neither did my classmates. I signed up because I was genuinely interested in learning the material in those courses and applying it to my life within LM's structure. And I got more than the benefits that were promised.
navygolf11198 3 years ago
"Too many Americans are leading lives of quiet desperation, afraid to fully express themselves and get in touch with / stand up for what they truly believe in.." your words seem to reveal a rather gloomy, cynical view of your fellow human beings. Listen to yourself, pot, what are you calling the kettle in your above remark?
bradbavarde 3 years ago
What is more cynical: expressing an observation that the fear-based culture of the U.S. tends to keep people from reaching for their dreams out of fear that their passion for life will be misperceived as "fanatacism," or taking the view that the American public isn't even capable of making its own spending decisions and therefore needs to be "protected" from organizations like Landmark (before you have even been around Landmark long enough to know what the company is actually up to)?
navygolf11198 3 years ago
I understand your concern that LM is robbing needy people of their welfare checks. But your theory here has no basis in reality. Nobody in the 4 LM classes I took last year (over 500 people) fit this description; everyone was there because they saw themselves as getting a benefit that met or exceeded the cost of admission, just as in any other economic transaction. And they were disproportionately sophisticated, professional people. If LM is so addictive, Brad, why aren't either of us addicted?
navygolf11198 3 years ago
Yes, I'm not addicted. You?
bradbavarde 3 years ago
Well, seeing as I haven't had much to do with Landmark (other than a couple of weekends where I assisted) since completing the SELP last year, I don't see how you can argue that either of us are "addicted" to Landmark's courses. But if LM was really as "dangerous" as you claim, it seems to me that something like that should have happened to at least one of us. They're good courses, but to say they are so good that people need to be "protected" from them is patronizing.
navygolf11198 3 years ago
Isn't it a bit patronizing to say that needy people are on welfare? Also, to assume that most participants are economically secure?
bradbavarde 3 years ago
What is patronizing is to assume that people who are economically insecure are any less able to determine what is in their own personal and financial best interests than you or I are. If you are really so concerned with the promotion of addictive behavior that robs the poor, you should be waging a YouTube campaign against the Ohio Lottery, not Landmark Education.
navygolf11198 3 years ago
Someone is twisting my words around, Billie. Maybe it's a lawyer? I never said a word about addictive behavior or things that promote addiction. But since Navy brought Landmark up in that context, maybe I should have. My concern was for people who may not be able to resist the landmark hard sell in light of the wonderful product, but according to Navy re: forum participants:
"And they were disproportionately
sophisticated, professional people" So I guess I don't need tp worry about that.
bradbavarde 3 years ago
Since you haven't had much to do, then how did you know there is a Forum in Cinci this week-end?
bradbavarde 3 years ago
Comment removed
billybudd66666 3 years ago
"You could assist this weekend in Cinci if you really wanted to just by virtue of being a Forum graduate." - Navy's words several hours ago. He seemed to be preety up to date. n'est-ce pas?
bradbavarde 3 years ago
Comment removed
billybudd66666 3 years ago
It is interesting that billybudd finds it much easier to just call someone a "liar" than to deal with what was actually said. If you can't make your case on facts, reason, and logic, there's always the personal attack to fall back on. But it turns out that I was wrong about Cinci. I was just making an assumption that there might be a Forum there this weekend because there happens to be a center there. Like the assumptions Brad makes in his comments and videos, it turned out I was incorrect.
navygolf11198 3 years ago
Comment removed
billybudd66666 3 years ago
I don't know if there is a Forum in Cinci this weekend. But there is a Center there. You can check the website and see what's going on. Try assisting...if you are willing to put your ego aside, you might find out there is a lot more to be learned from setting up chairs and stuffing envelopes than you ever imagined.
navygolf11198 3 years ago
...and I am fully aware that the world needs a lot more than LM for the transformation of human life on the planet earth to become a reality. We urgently need breakthrough research and development in the way humans harness and store energy, or a world war over current energy sources is a possibility. We have to plan and save for our futures more and be reactive to the present moment less. But mostly I think people need to learn to tolerate, listen to, and respect one another, as LM teaches.
navygolf11198 3 years ago
How did the world get by without LM? Again, nobody "needs" LM, and neither does the world. We can keep on making ourselves right and other people wrong, fighting wars rather than reconsidering our points of view, viewing selfishness as "normal" and selflessness with suspicion and cynicism. We can all continue to survive like this, and the earth will keep orbiting the sun as it always has. But it doesn't HAVE to be like that if we don't want it to be. It's humanity's collective choice to make.
navygolf11198 3 years ago
The reason I would like LM-related subjects like Eastern Philosophy to be taught in schools is because I think America would benefit if the type of paradigm shift LM offers could happen on a mass scale. Too many Americans are leading lives of quiet desperation, afraid to fully express themselves and get in touch with / stand up for what they truly believe in because they worry that someone will think them weird or even question their mental health (as you did to me here) for being enthusiastic.
navygolf11198 3 years ago
Brad, I appreciate that you are trying to inform yourself on the topic of LM before posting videos to YouTube. But I'm disappointed that you apparently view my dedication to the human potential movement (of which LM is a part) as "overzealousness" that causes you to question my "mental health." There are many things in life I am passionate about. LM / human potential happens to be one of them. Some people want to live their lives with periods and commas; I personally prefer exclamation points.
navygolf11198 3 years ago
Thanks for your words. you are entitled to being self righteous and angry and saying what you think that's what being American is all about. Re: the videos, I guess I was improvising something, I was just being myself giving my viewpoint (and yes, seeking a little attention in the process) but I do respect your opinions. Hasta luego
bradbavarde 3 years ago
Comment removed
billybudd66666 3 years ago
Thank you for your posting. It should be known that Dr. Fowler was the former EVP and CEO. Also, the article was written in 2000 at the request of LM and therefore may represent a biased view. I reccomend balancing that with the panel of psychologists on the French Documentary Listed on my page.
bradbavarde 3 years ago
Hi Brad:
I noticed that you are an active member of an Episcopal Parish. I thought you would be interested in this quote.
"Landmark's programs have enabled me to be more effective in dealing with both my personal and religious commitments. Without addressing religion or theology, Landmark's programs have had an impact on my life that has expanded over many years and have enhanced my experience and practice of my faith."
Otis Charles - Episcopal Bishop
heartman3x3 3 years ago
Thank you for bringing Bishop's Charles endorsement of Landmark to my attention. I am sure the Bishop's statement is well intended and true for him. However, I do not see how a program "without addressing religion or theology" could enable the Bishop to be more effective in his religious commitments and his experience and practice of his faith. Also, the existential philosophy used in LM is not compatible with the Christian Faith and I am sure Sartre and Camus would agree.
bradbavarde 3 years ago