What anyone can do now, anyway, is do as Thoreau said - simplify. Have no false needs and live joyfully and simply. Besides giving you a happier, more meaningful, more authentic experience, this will allow you to work as little as you can get away with and still survive. If everyone did this, this society would die in a month. But it's enough that any one of us does it and frees himself, and fulfills his human potential, so far as he can in these far from ideal conditions.
The idea that hard work is both necessary and a virtue is perhaps the most harmful and pervasive lies ever spread by European civilization. You know who hardly worked at all? Most North American Indians. You know why not? They didn't need to. They had all they needed, and could make their civilization go with very little effort. And you know what else? Their civilization has proven to have been optimal, while Europe's has been shown to be nature destroying and ultimately unsustainable. Fuck work
Can we ever really escape "forced labor." People will always need services from other people, save from some mechanized revolution. If I mend roofs for chickens so that I may live is that "work" by Black's definition. If not, how is that different from working a McDonald's so that I can afford services that ensure my survival. The only difference is capitalism. So if the later is problematic, it seems to me capitalism is the problem....not work.
I don't completely agree, some people do enjoy their jobs. However, I do agree with you when you say employment, for that implies that you must come to work and you must go about your job. I don't like the idea of being forced to work, even when I enjoy it. I'd much rather do it because I like it, rather than because it's the only means to survive.
Work for the sake of activity that does nothing for the individual laboring doesn't add to that individuals approach to creativity and freedom. Not that individuals need to be forever entertained, but we definitely don't need our time occupied by mindless repetitive "labor" Funny how some of our terminology is so perfectly descriptive, like "Labor"
Question-- I can't this moment think of a term that might best describe the mind involved in a clearly repetitive mode,
I am not an anarchist and admittedly I got a little lost with the dialogue- felt it went off on a tangent a bit.
But long term unemployment mixed with a very unpleasant experience of a 'back to work' programme (of which I left in protest at being treated as second class) has lead me to put some serious thought into these issues. It is particularly prominent in the UK- people here work longer hours than most of the rest of Europe and as a result a lot of people can be cold in their work cont;
cont; environment. Resentment or dissatisfaction in their job in turn leads to them taking out frustrations on people like me who refuse to follow the a-b-c-d-e route in life. The same people who work hard also play hard and therefore do not put time into much thought on what is going on here.
I angrily resent the idea that employment status should be a barometer of virtue and yet it is constantly pumped into people's mindset. They equate not doing paid work with sitting on a couch cont;
cont; and letting ones brain turn to mush whilst 'leaching off the taxpayer' (a crude, simplistic and inaccurate view encouraged by the red top press) They cannot comprehend creativity in employment and doing progressive things. Hard Work itself is overstated as a virtue. It could be argued that demagogues 'work hard' for all the wrong reasons. There are many other slandering arguments used that I could counter but ive done it so many times.
cont; very serious Quarter Life Crisis and it can be very hard to know what to believe in this fast-moving world.
I would be lying if I said the concept of work abolition is not a very attractive one but when analysed from a practical point of view it is problematic. If everyone did not engage in organised structured work, so many things could collapse. I enjoy going to the cinema. In a work-free society no one would operate the machinery. If I got injured who would look after me in cont;
cont... in a hospital. If I wanted to see the world, who would fly the plane. Arguments would arise in squabbles on who got to do what. A mob mentality could set in where people become tribalised. Who would protect the vulnerable from the dangerous without vigilantism prevailing? It could be argued that all these things exist to a certain extent in the world as it is. But there is a degree of structure, as opposed to chaos, that I struggle to believe would exist with universal anarchism.
@WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 At present views about work abolition are in an absolute minority. And simply not working leads to practical problems relating to finance and therefore stability- not to mention the demonisation that comes from people's ignorance. We need to take the world one step at a time without the luxury of utopian daydreams. The 18th century changed the world- the 19th century even more so, and the 20th, drastically. It may be that ideology (and I do view anarchism as an ideology) con;
cont.... develops on a widespread basis that a minimal-work and ultimately work-free environment exists in my lifetime. But I will be an old man by the time that happens. For that reason longevity is of great interest to me because I want to see what advances man makes in the coming century. I want to witness history.
No, I am God ! Capitalism provided the means for industrialization in the
western world ! African culture is the culture humans should be living by as this is the only country and climate humans were supposed to live ! Capitalism could not control African culture which is why the
our foolish ancestors that left the mother-land lost their melanin and strength, hence the european and brought about the greed culture of western capitalist society and industrialization !
westernization came back to hit her harder than any other country ! " life is your right so we cant give up the fight" in the immortal words of Bob Marley but the capitalist state steals
well yeah. Bob Black defines "work" later in the essay:
"My minimum definition of work is forced labor, that is, compulsory production...Work is production enforced by economic or political means...But not all creation is work. Work is never done for its own sake, it's done on account of some product or output that the worker (or, more often, somebody else) gets out of it."
...The word "work", as Bob uses it, is in more in relationship to the wage economy. I'm not against people doing things, or "working" on activities they enjoy. Example being I "worked" on this video because it was fun. To quote Bob: "That doesn't mean we have to stop doing things. It does mean creating a new way of life based on play; in other words, a ludic conviviality, commensality, and maybe even art."
Can we assume by writing the essay Bob Black was engaged in a sort of voluntary work? As an amateur writer aiming to get my novel published at some point I acknowledge that it may require the business side of the publication process. In a sense that is work. My point is that surely even to promote these ideas we rely on a certain degree of 'work' to do so.
I understand the concept of progressive creativity which I have endorsed whilst being unemployed but surely there is an innevitability factor that in voluntarily not working, one risks the vilification of society- being dismissed as a 'lazy loser' etc. Perhaps im a coward and suffer from a degree of paranoia but im very unhappy being tarred this way.
What anyone can do now, anyway, is do as Thoreau said - simplify. Have no false needs and live joyfully and simply. Besides giving you a happier, more meaningful, more authentic experience, this will allow you to work as little as you can get away with and still survive. If everyone did this, this society would die in a month. But it's enough that any one of us does it and frees himself, and fulfills his human potential, so far as he can in these far from ideal conditions.
cauchamar 6 months ago
The idea that hard work is both necessary and a virtue is perhaps the most harmful and pervasive lies ever spread by European civilization. You know who hardly worked at all? Most North American Indians. You know why not? They didn't need to. They had all they needed, and could make their civilization go with very little effort. And you know what else? Their civilization has proven to have been optimal, while Europe's has been shown to be nature destroying and ultimately unsustainable. Fuck work
cauchamar 6 months ago
Can we ever really escape "forced labor." People will always need services from other people, save from some mechanized revolution. If I mend roofs for chickens so that I may live is that "work" by Black's definition. If not, how is that different from working a McDonald's so that I can afford services that ensure my survival. The only difference is capitalism. So if the later is problematic, it seems to me capitalism is the problem....not work.
bok255 8 months ago
I don't completely agree, some people do enjoy their jobs. However, I do agree with you when you say employment, for that implies that you must come to work and you must go about your job. I don't like the idea of being forced to work, even when I enjoy it. I'd much rather do it because I like it, rather than because it's the only means to survive.
Ryanowning 1 year ago
Thank you!!
Work for the sake of activity that does nothing for the individual laboring doesn't add to that individuals approach to creativity and freedom. Not that individuals need to be forever entertained, but we definitely don't need our time occupied by mindless repetitive "labor" Funny how some of our terminology is so perfectly descriptive, like "Labor"
Question-- I can't this moment think of a term that might best describe the mind involved in a clearly repetitive mode,
phammm1 1 year ago
I am not an anarchist and admittedly I got a little lost with the dialogue- felt it went off on a tangent a bit.
But long term unemployment mixed with a very unpleasant experience of a 'back to work' programme (of which I left in protest at being treated as second class) has lead me to put some serious thought into these issues. It is particularly prominent in the UK- people here work longer hours than most of the rest of Europe and as a result a lot of people can be cold in their work cont;
WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 1 year ago
cont; environment. Resentment or dissatisfaction in their job in turn leads to them taking out frustrations on people like me who refuse to follow the a-b-c-d-e route in life. The same people who work hard also play hard and therefore do not put time into much thought on what is going on here.
I angrily resent the idea that employment status should be a barometer of virtue and yet it is constantly pumped into people's mindset. They equate not doing paid work with sitting on a couch cont;
WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 1 year ago
Comment removed
WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 1 year ago
cont; and letting ones brain turn to mush whilst 'leaching off the taxpayer' (a crude, simplistic and inaccurate view encouraged by the red top press) They cannot comprehend creativity in employment and doing progressive things. Hard Work itself is overstated as a virtue. It could be argued that demagogues 'work hard' for all the wrong reasons. There are many other slandering arguments used that I could counter but ive done it so many times.
Right now im going through a very serious cont;
WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 1 year ago
^^^ that should be creativity in unemployment*
WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 1 year ago
cont; very serious Quarter Life Crisis and it can be very hard to know what to believe in this fast-moving world.
I would be lying if I said the concept of work abolition is not a very attractive one but when analysed from a practical point of view it is problematic. If everyone did not engage in organised structured work, so many things could collapse. I enjoy going to the cinema. In a work-free society no one would operate the machinery. If I got injured who would look after me in cont;
WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 1 year ago
cont... in a hospital. If I wanted to see the world, who would fly the plane. Arguments would arise in squabbles on who got to do what. A mob mentality could set in where people become tribalised. Who would protect the vulnerable from the dangerous without vigilantism prevailing? It could be argued that all these things exist to a certain extent in the world as it is. But there is a degree of structure, as opposed to chaos, that I struggle to believe would exist with universal anarchism.
WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 1 year ago
@WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 At present views about work abolition are in an absolute minority. And simply not working leads to practical problems relating to finance and therefore stability- not to mention the demonisation that comes from people's ignorance. We need to take the world one step at a time without the luxury of utopian daydreams. The 18th century changed the world- the 19th century even more so, and the 20th, drastically. It may be that ideology (and I do view anarchism as an ideology) con;
WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 1 year ago
@WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1
cont.... develops on a widespread basis that a minimal-work and ultimately work-free environment exists in my lifetime. But I will be an old man by the time that happens. For that reason longevity is of great interest to me because I want to see what advances man makes in the coming century. I want to witness history.
WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 1 year ago
No, I am God ! Capitalism provided the means for industrialization in the
western world ! African culture is the culture humans should be living by as this is the only country and climate humans were supposed to live ! Capitalism could not control African culture which is why the
capitalist states tryed to wipe it out !
godkingofthepunks 2 years ago
That makes no sense?
1776Libertyordeath 2 years ago
our foolish ancestors that left the mother-land lost their melanin and strength, hence the european and brought about the greed culture of western capitalist society and industrialization !
godkingofthepunks 2 years ago
westernization came back to hit her harder than any other country ! " life is your right so we cant give up the fight" in the immortal words of Bob Marley but the capitalist state steals
your birth-right to land and shelter at birth
godkingofthepunks 2 years ago
giving you a name and a birth certificate and with the use of the money system forces you to "work" all your life paying taxes to buy your
stolen right back
godkingofthepunks 2 years ago
The industrial revolution is a blight on mankind.
Poltergeist454 2 years ago
workers of the world, relax!
jtr3030 3 years ago 3
Bob Black is god.
EsaEsLaChica 3 years ago
Revolution! Lets do the fight club thing and burn all the credit card / mortgage / and IRS to the ground!
(search YouTube for - fight club ending scene)
batfly 3 years ago
Hey Bob Black finally made it on to youtube!
Vice81 3 years ago 3
"work" is defined most broadly by the American Heritage Dictionary as "any physical or mental activity designed to achieve a goal."
i paraphrased.
summary: i am not against work.
we need to redefine how we think of our lives, how we work, what we work towards.
yes?
zzz33333 4 years ago 2
well yeah. Bob Black defines "work" later in the essay:
"My minimum definition of work is forced labor, that is, compulsory production...Work is production enforced by economic or political means...But not all creation is work. Work is never done for its own sake, it's done on account of some product or output that the worker (or, more often, somebody else) gets out of it."
idemandmydreams 4 years ago
...The word "work", as Bob uses it, is in more in relationship to the wage economy. I'm not against people doing things, or "working" on activities they enjoy. Example being I "worked" on this video because it was fun. To quote Bob: "That doesn't mean we have to stop doing things. It does mean creating a new way of life based on play; in other words, a ludic conviviality, commensality, and maybe even art."
idemandmydreams 4 years ago
tite!
zzz33333 4 years ago
@idemandmydreams
Can we assume by writing the essay Bob Black was engaged in a sort of voluntary work? As an amateur writer aiming to get my novel published at some point I acknowledge that it may require the business side of the publication process. In a sense that is work. My point is that surely even to promote these ideas we rely on a certain degree of 'work' to do so.
Thankyou for the upload by the way.
WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 1 year ago
Comment removed
WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1
I understand the concept of progressive creativity which I have endorsed whilst being unemployed but surely there is an innevitability factor that in voluntarily not working, one risks the vilification of society- being dismissed as a 'lazy loser' etc. Perhaps im a coward and suffer from a degree of paranoia but im very unhappy being tarred this way.
WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 1 year ago