PMQs: Up yours Europe edition. part1/3 (14Dec11)

[darthgrahf]

I love how you Brits don't hold back any punches. Are these open to the public? I'd love to see one live. Much better than Congressional debates here. Here the Congressmen and Senators try not to shout "Go fuck yourself!"

[uk6strings]

lol Miliband's lisp cracks me up. Heaven help Britain if he ever shall be PM but I will admit that I have a good laugh over the idea of a Prime Minithster Ed Miliband!

[sertysh]

englishhacksaw if the daily mail is a newspaper that supports UKIP why did it urge it's readers to vote for the tories at the may 2010 election? Plus can you name one journalist with that paper that openly states support for UKIP?

[TheConnorian]

@sertysh nail on the head there.

[eddieoxford]

Haha. What a punch in the balls for the brothers joke. It was a brilliant comeback

[324wilson]

Bercow is the greatest speaker since Lady Boothroyd.

[destinyson23]

@324wilson i had more respect for lady boothroyd because she didn't come across as biased as what Bercow does.

[clockworkorange1986]

@MrHarrylime79, yes 1 million. in a country at 8% unemployment you clown. read a book kiddo...

[crackmonster99]

I agree Ed won on substance but Cameron won on humour. I think the personal attack stuff was Cameron's subtle way of saying things didn't go so well.

[fatman1001]

Simple conclusion:

Miliband win on economy and unemployment

Cameron win on Europe

[mikesheen741]

@fatman1001 Miliband wins on economy? How?

[fatman1001]

On the substance miliband won it, e.g Cameron unable to answer question on broken promise about private sector employment filling the gap for public sector but his delivery was awful.

Cameron on the other hand was charismatic and the brothers joke was hilarious.

[englishhacksaw]

@fatman1001

I agree. Who would you rather have leading our country? A showboating silver tongued fool or a sensible but completely socially inept dork?

[TheConnorian]

@englishhacksaw that's a nice labour spin on it. You know that Cameron is actually a good leader, who is charismatic and unlike the labour and liberal leader he has a back bone. Plus miliband is far from sensible, he is just uncharismatic. Frankly with you it seems you vote more on names than politicians and fail to see that Cameron is simply better at politics than miliband, however unlike you I am sensible and don't vote for them instead for a straight party called UKIP.

[englishhacksaw]

@TheConnorian

What can I say, unlike Cameron, Miliband actually has some economic sense. For Pms, I believe it should be substance over show and as I said it before,I believe Miliband has far more substance than Cameron but Cameron has thousands more sow over Miliband. Attlee was all substance ad no show and look what he achieved. Unless its a time of extreme turmoil, like WW2 where strong leadership is essential, this showboating nonsense has no place if it comes before sense.

[TheConnorian]

@englishhacksaw Miliband? economic sense? yeah spend yourself out of debt why not, I mean that worked in the past. (points at labours debt). Frankly people want a leader who knows what he is talking about instead of being fickle and going "don't strike" "strike" "don't strike" and then using a by-election where barely anyone got involved as a success story? Frankly the only people with economic sense are UKIP and maybe the conservatives at least they know how to balance the books.

[englishhacksaw]

@TheConnorian

Contd:

"Spend yourself out of debt" Oh for god's sake really? Man, the shit you've swallowed. Labor isn't just spending. If we want to get out of the recession, we need economic growth. quantitative easing wont do shit if the money funneled to small businesses goes through the banks. Yeah, the deficit needed to be cut, but cutting it as much as the Tories did is insane. Here's a shocker! Bleeding your country dry during a recession does not promote growth.

[TheConnorian]

@englishhacksaw Your right we need more cuts actually.

[englishhacksaw]

@TheConnorian

Wow, we really don't you idiot. Do you want our country to go into a double dip recession?

[TheConnorian]

@englishhacksaw you have no idea about the recession do you? we need cuts to deal with labours domestic debt they left us in. We have almost no control over a double dip recession. But then again anything to throw us into the banks hands with you socialists.

[englishhacksaw]

@TheConnorian You clearly have no idea about the recession, nor economics. And we do have control over double dip recession. Here's a tip. If you don't want a double dip recession, then don't bleed the country dry when we're in the middle of a fucking recession! Granted, it may have been inevitable, given the state of the rest of the world, but bleeding the country dry would make it far far worse. And how would Labor throw us into the banks hands

[TheConnorian]

@englishhacksaw bleeding the country dry? but its labour fault? don't do drugs if you don't want the downer after the high. cause labour like drugs should really be illegal with what they did.

[englishhacksaw]

@TheConnorian And how would Labor throw us into the banks hands? Miliband has constantly been going on about how the bankers need to be punished and pay for the damages they've caused. Meanwhile, Cameron has done fuck all. Its taken Clegg's pestering for Osbourne to finally actually do something about the banker's bonuses.

[TheConnorian]

@englishhacksaw And what did labour do? nothing, in fact as we proved earlier they deregulated the banks and gave freely to risk lending which led to Britain's great domestic problem and the bleeding of the people for labour inability to operate. Frankly I don't care what Camerons done, he's better than labour but the lesser of two evils. Only Ukip can do anything as it has proved in the past.

[englishhacksaw]

@TheConnorian

Contd:

Some spending must be present, otherwise the economy ain't going anywhere except down. The latest October economic report showed that we were heading into a double dip recession. But oh well! At least we'll have a far smaller debt! Cut spending in certain areas to lower the debt and invest money into the economy to get out of the recession, so we're in a safer economic situation to lower our debt

[TheConnorian]

@englishhacksaw You know the recession has nothing to do with our politicians its a world trend. However our glorious domestic problems are down to your party.

[englishhacksaw]

@TheConnorian

I never said the recession was down to politicians. No shit it was on a world scale, but the politicians sure helped to make it worse. Miliband is nothing like the idiotic New Labor. New Labor were traitors to socialism and were more right wing than left wing. You know the whole credit crunch and recession was because of right wing beliefs right? Raegan deregulated the financial markets and other countries followed suit. It was Nigel Lawson who deregulated our banks.

[TheConnorian]

@englishhacksaw New Labour was full on socialism. You didn't like it? maybe you should rethink your ideology. The credit crunch was due to right wing beliefs? name them. deregulation was a left wing idea, so fuck off. You can't have a socialist idea that didn't work then go "OH IT MUST BE RIGHT WING!" but then again you socialists can't handle responsibility I mean you don't take responsibility for Blair's actions after you elected him.

[englishhacksaw]

@TheConnorian "New Labour was full on socialism." Hahahahaha! Yeah fuck off. Are you seriously saying Blair's and Brown's pandering to big city businesses and the bankers, while neglecting the issue income inequality is left wing? Jesus christ mate! Nigel Lawson, the Tory Chancellor under thatcher started this whole financial deregulation in the UK. Deregulation of the free market is bloody right wing. Jeez, this is basic stuff!

[TheConnorian]

@englishhacksaw What it was. Thats what socialists do when they are in charge they pander to rich men. The past has proven that. you act as if every policy has to be right or left wing. its simpler and less specific than that. left stands for community economic policy and independent social policy while the right independent economic policy and community social policy. It really is simple I mean look at communism (your wet dream) everyone earned the same (another wet dream of yours).

[TheConnorian]

@englishhacksaw plus deregulation only came into full swing from your good ol' labour buddies!

[englishhacksaw]

@TheConnorian

Oh and congratulations on voting for the daily mail party. Yeah, Xenophobia is exactly what this country needs right now isn't it?

[TheConnorian]

@englishhacksaw Daily Mail? Xenophobia? no you seem to be confused, I read The Times unlike you who probably reads the backwards tabloid guardian. And Xenophobia, well Labour seems to want to alienate the British and favour the Europeans while basically stopping trade with the commonwealth while giving free money to third world countries we barely even interact with. Frankly your party is the xenophobic one.

[TheConnorian]

@englishhacksaw UKIP just wants an equal europe with free trade not laws from brussels but then again you socialists love the idea of being ruled by bureaucrats. we also want to actually keep British culture instead of destroy it but then again you lot hate Britain I mean the idea of burning British books probably brings you to orgasm.

[TheConnorian]

@englishhacksaw And for my finale: we want free trade with the commonwealth again and with these third world nations but you don't? its not UKIP that's xenophobic but labour. They want to hide in europe within the cage of the EU while UKIP wants to expand to the world? you know I think you need to go and get yourself an education, xenophobia seems to have an opposite definition in your dictionary.

[englishhacksaw]

@TheConnorian

Assumptions assumptions everywhere. Don't give me that right wing crap of hurr durr, socialists hate Britain! I love Britain but I'm not some little Englander blinded by nationalistic pride that fails to see leaving the EU now is a terrible idea. We're in the middle of an economic crisis and leaving the trading bloc we have relied so much on now is bloody insane! Your party has been known to contain racist and xenophobic members. And you wonder why we dont trust you.

[TheConnorian]

@englishhacksaw Really racists and xenophobes? name some.

[englishhacksaw]

@TheConnorian

Paul Wiffen is one that comes to mind. Alan Sked ex leader of UKIP resigned because of the number of extremists in UKIP "they are racist and have been infected by the far-right."

[TheConnorian]

@englishhacksaw Sorry I thought you meant the party was actually racist maybe you need reminding of Frank Field? or maybe Jim McGovern? love those racist labour mp's!

[TheConnorian]

@englishhacksaw Oh and to deal with your first post again. You socialists are just full of greed and envy. You hate the rich because they are rich and want benefits increased so you can sit on your arse all day. "little Englander"? hardly I want world trade you just want Europe if anything you are a "little European" so full of socialist garbage. Plus we would never leave the trading bloc, your parties ideas are insane because you pander to the trading bloc.

[englishhacksaw]

@TheConnorian Typical right wing bullshit. I don't even know why I'm bothering. How dare you call us greedy with the massive income gap we have right now with the bankers still yet to be properly punished. I'm sorry but I'm gonna have to break you out of your little bubble. Sadly the free market isn't some magic little wand that can sort everything out. It doesn't work, as this recession shows. And when did I say I don't like free trade? Fuck off and don't put words in my mouth.

[TheConnorian]

@englishhacksaw The massive income gap is thanks to labour, they gave the banks what they wanted in return for their support. Labour digs deep into lobbyists pockets. Plus right wing parties are doing much more to deal with the banks than labour ever did. Also free market doesn't work? well I guess the recent market situation where the government controlled it all did did it? Your the one who says we shouldn't trade with the world "little European".

[englishhacksaw]

@TheConnorian Right wing groups are doing more? Oh god no! If the Tories were in charge when new Labor was in power, they'd be far worse! Here's a fact, the vast majority of bankers are right wing. You wonder why so little has been done to the bankers don't you? Its because the Tories don't want to upset their fellow right wing banker chums.

[TheConnorian]

@englishhacksaw If the Tories were in power the same economic situation with the banks would have come about but not the situation of becoming Americas lapdog and running into wars after them. We would still have a reputation and would not have a lost generation. Labour gives people stuff to shut them up that is all. Plus you may notice that the tories and labour are all in it together with the bankers so who cares, the bankers aren't left or right they are anywhere the direction of money is.

[englishhacksaw]

@TheConnorian This recession was both government and market failure. Market failure because the market was left to work alone and it crashed and burned. Government failure because it was the government who caused this deregulation, which then caused the recession. Once again, I never fucking said we shouldn't trade with the world. I support free and world trade. Get it through your head.

[TheConnorian]

@englishhacksaw The recession was mainly a government failure to regulate banks, it wouldn't be as bad if the banks had been kept on a leash. Plus you hardly support world trade, you only want europe, its either the EU and europe or the world and europe. Plus you don't support free trade you said that you hate the free market, you probably stab pictures of untaxed trade convoys for amusement.

[englishhacksaw]

@TheConnorian

One last think, it'd be interesting to know what your opinion is in the whole occupy movement and the anti-bad capitalism view

[TheConnorian]

@englishhacksaw The occupy movement is a load of socialist garbage that is against capitalism as a whole despite the capitalism we have had has just been socialist capitalism they want more socialism like the EU! oh you labour voters. You really do represent the worst of Britain.

[englishhacksaw]

@TheConnorian As I thought; you're one of the fools who's quick to dismiss the protesters as being a bunch of hippies. They're not against Capitalism; they're against bad capitalism. I.e. the greedy bankers with their ridiculously large bonuses who remain unpunished and the CEO's with their insane saleries. Fact, the gap in the Lorennz curve of our country has been getting wider and wider (income inequality is increasing). Selfish scum like you are what's wrong with Britain

[TheConnorian]

@englishhacksaw I never said hippies although the green party has many psychological problems. They are against Capitalism, they say it so many times, they want a full on socialist resource based system where everyone gets what they want. Which will never work nor is it possible. Plus we see here your hatred for the rich in general, doesn't matter who earned money or whether they are worth their salaries, your just envious. Plus as I said its your problem party that gave the banks what they want

[englishhacksaw]

@TheConnorian The stupid anarchists and idiotic bandwagoning teenagers who have no idea what they're fucking talking about are the ones saying they're against capitalism. You'll find that those with the most extreme views are often the loudest. The core message of occupy is not anti capitalism, its anti-bad capitalism. I've already explained what that is.

[TheConnorian]

@englishhacksaw Really? evidence please, if the majority are stupidly socialist then why should I believe that they are not so?

[englishhacksaw]

@TheConnorian And what are you talking about my hatred for the rich? I don't hate them, I'm annoyed with the ones who are corrupt, have gained an unfair advantage up the capitalist ladder and exploit their position to prevent/limit others from climbing it. I don't envy anyone. I'm annoyed about how the poor have to pay for the riches failings while the rich get rewarded. If you don't see the unfairness here, then you are morally bankrupt.

[TheConnorian]

@englishhacksaw the ones who are corrupt? I'm with you there. The problem is that you don't understand that its labour who stopped competitiveness by supplying everyone with super benefits. The poor have little motivation to compete nowadays as the capitalists of the past are replaced with benefit smoothers from labours lost generation.

[TheConnorian]

@englishhacksaw Me the selfish one? how so? your the only one who is selfish, you see someone with more money and want someone else to take it from them and give it to you. Thus is socialism. I prefer to work hard and earn my pay. Probably why I'm higher up than you.

[englishhacksaw]

@TheConnorian Wow fuck off. Are you really that fucking pathetic that you're now claiming superiority over me? You know nothing about me and I know nothing about you.You can't assume shit. FYI, I'm upper middle class and come from a traditional conservative background. And once again you shown your complete lack of knowledge about socialism. I suggest YOU get an education and read up on what socialism really is. Honestly, I don't know why I've bothered with you.

[TheConnorian]

@englishhacksaw I can see what you have written and it isn't giving you high classifications, plus there's the fact that the unemployed and benefit abusers mainly vote labour. And now we go onto things you can't prove, upper middle class? glad that you typing that proves it. I'm the Queen btw. I know socialism because I argue with socialists daily, they are almost just like you but provide less sport in a debate. Get an education as to why people are socialist.

[englishhacksaw]

@TheConnorian Ok, finally. Until you admit that the free market doesn't work and that financial deregulation is a right wing, not left wing belief, I'm done talking to you. I am not arguing with you over facts. Honestly, right now I feel like I'm arguing with a brick wall

[TheConnorian]

@englishhacksaw I don't admit it because it is not. Glad you have decided my arguments out competed yours thus is capitalism, the uncompetitive die out and fall silent. Your probably just arguing with yourself over things you know to be true but then again. Have fun, good game.

[englishhacksaw]

@TheConnorian Wow, NOW I'm done with you. You refuse to accept basic facts and make bullshit accusations. I don't like communism, I don't hate the free market and once again I have nothing wrong with free world trade. Your continued use of straw men in your arguments is pathetic. Thats that. No doubt you've thought you won this argument. What can I say? Ignorance is bliss. All I can say is thank god you're not in a position of power. Your backwards and illogical views are dangerous

[TheConnorian]

@englishhacksaw Really? so using what you have said is using a straw man? I think I have won with your inability to argue against me. What can I say? the strong survive. It would seem from your last comment that you hate what I stand for: lower taxes, regulation of banks, destruction of PC, withdrawal from the EU, world trade, benefits being a safety net not a free cash withdrawal, reduction of government control... etc. those really don't sound backwards to me, I think I would do well in power.

[mikesheen741]

What was Bercow saying?

[liarpoliticians]

@mikesheen741 He said Order Ooooorder! Waffle waffle naughty school kid MP's ORDER!

[asterexcel]

@mikesheen741 If you're referring to the bit where he says "I have no thoughts on this matter", which sounded strange, then: all MPs are supposed to be addressing the Speaker, and not other MPs directly, even though they're looking at one another. Easier for Hansard to record things, I guess. So you're not allowed to say "you" to refer to anyone -- when Cameron did it here, Bercow interrupted to make that clear. HTH!

[mikesheen741]

@asterexcel Thank you.

[erelpc]

I'm fed up of these statists.