Are you talking about the Japanese ones? Yes, they are a little "basic" I suppose and the design on the French decks are much nicer. I will agree. I was showing those cards on the internet because I thought it was interesting to see Tarot marketed for use as a game rather than fortune telling in Japan. Something exciting to me.
These Japanese cards do look a bit twee, like they are kiddie cards. I did not like the way the cards felt in my hands though. I do like the idea of uniting the trump imagry of the Italian decks with the suits of the French decks, and I've created my own deck based on that concept. For the best feel, I would recommend the Grimaud Premiere or the Piatnik DeLuxe.
We're not talking about modern playing decks here. We're talking about Tarot decks that were developed for the playing of a game before they were adopted as an occult tool. If you think I'm going only on research online, you're mistaken. There is a good book on the subject called "A History of Games Played With the Tarot Pack" by Michael Dummet. It's an expensive book, but last I checked... someone had uploaded a torrent of it over at thepiratebay dot org
Tarot cards have been around for a long time, yes. And yes, games where played with tarot cards, but only after they where used for 'divination' purposes.
There is no question that card games,( much like modern ones) where played with tarot cards. My point was that modern decks where inspired by tarot decks. :)
Sorry, you're still not getting it. The historical evidence for any use of the tarot other than gaming in it's original form is pretty much non-existent hearsay! All the claims that Tarot is an "ancient divination tool" are made well AFTER the established evidence of Tarot created for purely game-playing purposes. There's simply no solid evidence in history for "ancient" origins of tarot.
The deck itself is only found as early as the 15th century, and at that point it's only recorded use is for games! No documented examples of fortune telling use for Tarot exist before the 18th century! That's quite a gap!!
Conventional playing cards existed prior to Tarot cards. The Tarot came about as a variant of what was then a standard deck. And Duckhugger is correct in saying that the Tarot was first played as a card game and the divination uses came later.
Great to see people discovering these games! Most are played with French suited cards these days but you might want to check out some of the Italian games. If you don't mind the shipping costs, the playingcardsales dot com sell a good range for game play. Also Pagat dot com lists the rules for many of the games.
Other than those Japanese cards I mentioned, I also ordered and received two Austrian decks. Just put in an order for a French deck that should be coming in soon. I'm interested in getting as many different kinds of Tarot cards that I can (in the non-fortune telling variety anyways).
Once bitten....you're collection will grow and grow :) You might want to look at the Tarocco Bolognese, Tarocco Peidmontese, and Taroco Siciliano. They use the old Itaian designs for some unusual - and very good - games. Also look for the Vassal Game Engine - its an open source project for playing games on the internet and there is a tarot module by nosferatu. I'm going to be working on adding some more modules when I've time.
Hullo there Nosferatu! And many thanks, your module was the reason I discovered the Vassal Game Engine. In the comming months, I hope to add some more modules alongside yours for the 54 card tarok games and Ottocento - maybe even minchiate. Vassal seems like a great opportunity for recruiting new players.
I would also look up "thanos cardgames" there are at least three classic tarocci card playing software there. There's Swiss Troggu, Tarocco Piemontese, and Tarocco Siciliano.
I also recommend any books you can find by Micheal Dummett. His "Twelve Tarot Games" book introduced me to the joys way back in the early 80's. It's out of print now but well worth the effort to hunt down a copy.
Actually, the library I work at (at the college I go to) is ordering some Dummett books thanks to my suggestion. Looking forward to reading them when they come in.
Welcome to the wonderful world of Tarot games! We play regularly down here in the SF Bay Area. You're welcome to join us if you are ever in town. We've purchased lots of cool decks from this distributor: tarock dot net slash store dot htm
This is a fine intro to the topic of Tarot games! There is an entry for that Japanese deck on the boardgamegeek website. I will post a link to this vid over there. Can't wait for the rest of the series.
You have to understand, the "puffed up" thing in relation to Crowley and other occultists is mainly directed towards their lack of evidence for claims they put forward which they cover up with definite and confident statements as to the "true nature" of Tarot. I used to be into their sales pitch too when I was younger and relished the "mystique" of it... but it's disappointing when examined closely how little real historical evidence they carry for their claims.
Crowley never made any comment on the history of the tarot, in fact in his Book of Thoth he says the origin is actually irrelevant, which I tend to agree with. You are missing the point somewhat if you discount his works because of lack of "historical evidence", but then again it looks like we are getting different things out of the experience with the cards. the artwork on your site is cool though ;)
It seems like many of them do that kind of thing of confusing the origins of the cards... making wild claims unsupported by history and then saying "oh but that doesn't all matter anyways". I have to disagree... It DOES matter where the cards came from... and they're putting the false impression in people's minds that the bogus theories behind the cards are possibly just as valid as truly historically supported ones concerning the card-playing origin.
Videos explaining the game play for Tarot are definitely lacking. Eventually I do want to put up a video that covers some of the basics of it. It is a pretty complicated game to explain though. Part of me wonders if it wouldn't be better detailed (from my end) in a comic or illustrated format? If I took that route, it would likely be posted up to my site duckhugger dot com.
Yeah, I know... I don't really care much about my Rider-Waite deck anyways. Eagerly waiting for some cards I ordered from Tarock dot net to come in for me. Also those Japanese cards I mentioned, although I think there were some complications with the order... delays n' all.
サマーウォーズ見た外人が、花札にはまるような時代が来るのか( ﾟдﾟ )
judith703 1 year ago
Are this cards for kids or... ? The french tarot cards are better.
bidou 4 years ago
Are you talking about the Japanese ones? Yes, they are a little "basic" I suppose and the design on the French decks are much nicer. I will agree. I was showing those cards on the internet because I thought it was interesting to see Tarot marketed for use as a game rather than fortune telling in Japan. Something exciting to me.
Duckhugger 4 years ago
These Japanese cards do look a bit twee, like they are kiddie cards. I did not like the way the cards felt in my hands though. I do like the idea of uniting the trump imagry of the Italian decks with the suits of the French decks, and I've created my own deck based on that concept. For the best feel, I would recommend the Grimaud Premiere or the Piatnik DeLuxe.
Oudler 4 years ago
Uhh..
Tarot inspired the modern playing card deck...
You have it backwards my friend.
I suggest you look over your sources which you researched from...
The internet has a lot of false info :|
Kinkade9250 4 years ago
We're not talking about modern playing decks here. We're talking about Tarot decks that were developed for the playing of a game before they were adopted as an occult tool. If you think I'm going only on research online, you're mistaken. There is a good book on the subject called "A History of Games Played With the Tarot Pack" by Michael Dummet. It's an expensive book, but last I checked... someone had uploaded a torrent of it over at thepiratebay dot org
anonrt6 4 years ago 6
Sorry, I may have worded that wrong..
Let me try again:
Tarot cards have been around for a long time, yes. And yes, games where played with tarot cards, but only after they where used for 'divination' purposes.
There is no question that card games,( much like modern ones) where played with tarot cards. My point was that modern decks where inspired by tarot decks. :)
Kinkade9250 4 years ago
Sorry, you're still not getting it. The historical evidence for any use of the tarot other than gaming in it's original form is pretty much non-existent hearsay! All the claims that Tarot is an "ancient divination tool" are made well AFTER the established evidence of Tarot created for purely game-playing purposes. There's simply no solid evidence in history for "ancient" origins of tarot.
Duckhugger 4 years ago
The deck itself is only found as early as the 15th century, and at that point it's only recorded use is for games! No documented examples of fortune telling use for Tarot exist before the 18th century! That's quite a gap!!
Duckhugger 4 years ago
Conventional playing cards existed prior to Tarot cards. The Tarot came about as a variant of what was then a standard deck. And Duckhugger is correct in saying that the Tarot was first played as a card game and the divination uses came later.
Oudler 4 years ago 4
Way to go! More tarot game videos!
tarot4games 4 years ago 4
Great to see people discovering these games! Most are played with French suited cards these days but you might want to check out some of the Italian games. If you don't mind the shipping costs, the playingcardsales dot com sell a good range for game play. Also Pagat dot com lists the rules for many of the games.
philebus1972 4 years ago
Other than those Japanese cards I mentioned, I also ordered and received two Austrian decks. Just put in an order for a French deck that should be coming in soon. I'm interested in getting as many different kinds of Tarot cards that I can (in the non-fortune telling variety anyways).
Duckhugger 4 years ago
Once bitten....you're collection will grow and grow :) You might want to look at the Tarocco Bolognese, Tarocco Peidmontese, and Taroco Siciliano. They use the old Itaian designs for some unusual - and very good - games. Also look for the Vassal Game Engine - its an open source project for playing games on the internet and there is a tarot module by nosferatu. I'm going to be working on adding some more modules when I've time.
philebus1972 4 years ago
Nosferatu is my Yahoo Groups name. I'm the creator of that Vassal module. Thanks for the mention
Oudler 4 years ago
Hullo there Nosferatu! And many thanks, your module was the reason I discovered the Vassal Game Engine. In the comming months, I hope to add some more modules alongside yours for the 54 card tarok games and Ottocento - maybe even minchiate. Vassal seems like a great opportunity for recruiting new players.
philebus1972 4 years ago
I would also look up "thanos cardgames" there are at least three classic tarocci card playing software there. There's Swiss Troggu, Tarocco Piemontese, and Tarocco Siciliano.
Oudler 4 years ago
I also recommend any books you can find by Micheal Dummett. His "Twelve Tarot Games" book introduced me to the joys way back in the early 80's. It's out of print now but well worth the effort to hunt down a copy.
imeldamusical 4 years ago
Actually, the library I work at (at the college I go to) is ordering some Dummett books thanks to my suggestion. Looking forward to reading them when they come in.
Duckhugger 4 years ago
Welcome to the wonderful world of Tarot games! We play regularly down here in the SF Bay Area. You're welcome to join us if you are ever in town. We've purchased lots of cool decks from this distributor: tarock dot net slash store dot htm
imeldamusical 4 years ago
SF Bay is sooooo far away from where I am up in Washington State... I think the last time I was down there was in 2002 for Ladyfest!
Duckhugger 4 years ago
This is a fine intro to the topic of Tarot games! There is an entry for that Japanese deck on the boardgamegeek website. I will post a link to this vid over there. Can't wait for the rest of the series.
Oudler 4 years ago
Ive seen some nice french gaming tarot decks on ebay in the past. Although I am very much into the puffed up nonsense Crowley wrote about Tarot,
the game aspect also holds great interest for me :) A video of the game being played or rules explained is lacking on youtube I feel...
wyzzy 4 years ago
You have to understand, the "puffed up" thing in relation to Crowley and other occultists is mainly directed towards their lack of evidence for claims they put forward which they cover up with definite and confident statements as to the "true nature" of Tarot. I used to be into their sales pitch too when I was younger and relished the "mystique" of it... but it's disappointing when examined closely how little real historical evidence they carry for their claims.
Duckhugger 4 years ago
Crowley never made any comment on the history of the tarot, in fact in his Book of Thoth he says the origin is actually irrelevant, which I tend to agree with. You are missing the point somewhat if you discount his works because of lack of "historical evidence", but then again it looks like we are getting different things out of the experience with the cards. the artwork on your site is cool though ;)
wyzzy 4 years ago
It seems like many of them do that kind of thing of confusing the origins of the cards... making wild claims unsupported by history and then saying "oh but that doesn't all matter anyways". I have to disagree... It DOES matter where the cards came from... and they're putting the false impression in people's minds that the bogus theories behind the cards are possibly just as valid as truly historically supported ones concerning the card-playing origin.
Duckhugger 4 years ago
Videos explaining the game play for Tarot are definitely lacking. Eventually I do want to put up a video that covers some of the basics of it. It is a pretty complicated game to explain though. Part of me wonders if it wouldn't be better detailed (from my end) in a comic or illustrated format? If I took that route, it would likely be posted up to my site duckhugger dot com.
Duckhugger 4 years ago
Wow. You really ruined those cards. Well done.
wyzzy 4 years ago
Yeah, I know... I don't really care much about my Rider-Waite deck anyways. Eagerly waiting for some cards I ordered from Tarock dot net to come in for me. Also those Japanese cards I mentioned, although I think there were some complications with the order... delays n' all.
Duckhugger 4 years ago
US Games already ruined those cards. They've recently replaced Smith's calligraphy with these plain looking fonts.
Oudler 4 years ago