Milton Friedman - School Choice

[wct1971]

Got to love Milton Friedman. Champion for liberty he surely was. Those on the left cannot and will not accept the fact that personal choice and personal responsibility/accountability is the foundation for success.

[UCSDEngineerDoctor]

People in the Ghetto will vote for OBAMA, so he can bribe them with food stamps & welfare checks.

[angryliberal1984]

The sad and simple fact is this friends: We do have school choice. And tons of it, too. But it's only for the rich people and upper middle class people. They decide where they want to live on the basis of the quality of the schools there. Poor people can't move (usually) and when they do, they can't move to good (i.e. rich) neighborhood. I am teacher and would support school choice. But it's woefully naive to think the best teachers would work in a slum when they can do better elsewhere.

[mixmastermeeks]

@angryliberal1984 What I think isn't woefully naive is that some "greedy" person who wants to earn a buck will see that there is an enormous market in the "slum" and a lot of money to be made if they offer cheap quality education. And I don't believe for a second that those schools would have a hard time finding teachers to teach in them. Look at New Orleans.

[angryliberal1984]

@mixmastermeeks True that.

[angryliberal1984]

@mixmastermeeks Also: No such thing exists as "cheap quality education." It is an oxymoron. It's law of life - doing anything well requires resources. In Illinois the best schools have the highest budgets per pupil Why do you think a person's ACT score correlates best with his or her parents' income, even more than IQ? And no one wants to work in a dangerous or scary neighborhood (called "slums" in American English) even for good money. Been to New Orleans recently and it is a disaster still.

[mixmastermeeks]

@angryliberal1984 Correlation does not mean causation. It may be true that in Illinois schools with higher budgets have pupils that do better. But look at Detroit. It has one of the highest per student budgets in the U.S. and some of the worst schools. Education funding has increased something like 400% since 1979 (when the department of education was created) but test scores have stayed the same. (that is with inflation).

[mixmastermeeks]

@angryliberal1984 I have no doubt New Orleans is still a mess. But their schools system is a lot better than it was prior. But you can also look at Harlem academies. Sadly students have to enter a and win in a lottery to attend. This is because liberals are more worried about union teacher jobs than education and so they stop charter schools from forming. But they use the excuse that education is too important. It must be handled by the government. (and the kids are from slums)

[angryliberal1984]

@mixmastermeeks I am a teacher - and a unionized one at that! I have also two teaching awards and am Nationally Board Certified Teacher, the highest level that a teacher can achieve. I was a non-union teacher for a long time (eight years) and can tell you exactly what it amounted to: Being exploited by my employer: no health insurance, no benefits, no sick pay, no vacation. Teachers unions aren't the problem. I care about kids and fight for them.You hate the fact I will fight for myself as well.

[angryliberal1984]

@mixmastermeeks I am a teacher - and a unionized one at that! I have also two teaching awards and am Nationally Board Certified Teacher, the highest level that a teacher can achieve. I was a non-union teacher for a long time (eight years) and can tell you exactly what it amounted to: Being exploited by my employer: no health insurance, no benefits, no sick pay, no vacation. Teachers unions aren't the problem. I care about kids and fight for them.You hate the fact I will fight for myself as well.

[DocUnsane]

o.m.g., liberal conservative commie ziegist's, fat heads,... names names names,

the issue is that lots of money is made in the education system, when they should be incentivising a proper education rather than inefficient spending.

[ralphmotorhead]

Liberals ?? Chronically defective people...

[carlindelco]

The public school system today produces democrat voters who sit home all day dreaming, not educated citizens pursuing the American dream! How ironic that a government that decry monopolies in the free market , fully embrace it with the education of our children. example #47,596 of typical liberal hypocrisy. This is an expose on a high crime against the citizens of America!

[ProudConservative2]

LibertyPen creates the best videos on YouTube! Period! Thank you so much!!!!

[VertikalDesign]

how about i get a voucher so the state money for roads only goes to the roads i actually drive on. screw everyone else, if their roads fall apart that's their fault for living in a resource poor area.

[fzqlcs]

@VertikalDesign You have stumbled upon the reason there is no road voucher debate. You would be a moron if you think that relates to schools. School vouchers are like food stamps. They only pay, they do not determine what is purchased. That is why they make sense, unless you really believed the state cares more about children than their parents.

[davidmesaaz]

@VertikalDesign No a better solution would be to give people a voucher for transportation cost. Instead of the state spending $2000 per person on roads and highways. Lets make the state compete for the dollars. If you wanted to ride a bike or take the bus you would be rewarded.

[carlindelco]

@VertikalDesign If everyone got the vouchers as you. then the roads where there are the most people and consequently the roads that get the most use.. would be repaired.. in other words it would be the same as now DOH! u libs crack me up.. i needed that laugh thanks

[ThunderAppeal]

It is most certainly *not* a matter of 'Justice' that vouchers are used to facilitate decision. Welfare is welfare no matter what kind of pretty phrase is used to present it. This principles eagerness to throw around terms and phrases that appeal to a particular group of people does not solve the problem of inferior schools. That having been said I agree that competition is necessary regardless of where it is implemented. The NYC public school system is one huge welfare system for teachers.

[icecreamladydream]

I am a black woman and I do not like ghetto and ignorant behaving people of any race. The public school system as it is today is a COMPLETE waste of tax dollars. I know because I sub in them. I would never allow my son to attend one and I'm not rich. I home school and private school. I find a way. More parents need to get stop the laziness and take more responsiblity. Educate your own kids.

[ironclad452]

What conservatives have to realize is that the liberal elite got where they are and drove this nation where it is now through the education system. If we want to take our country back, we have to think long term -- just as they did -- and focus back on fixing our education system. If we continue to fight them on their ground, were they've achieved a strong front, we will continue to lose battle after battle. I'm not advocating retreat, but a regrouping. Thoughts?

[Rico8458]

less government is what we need today. less government, cut taxes, more personal freedoms, and real money not paper but gold and silver as real money for our labor and work.

[whoo689]

The only logical direction for true economic thinkers is to be libertarians. Otherwise, they're lying to themselves about economics or whatever.

[TheLiberalssuckdick]

Youtube = Stupid In America

some countries in Europe have this kind of voucher / competition system.

[Betty5150]

I would know that Government run schools are failures. Firstly, because I was in one not more then 2 years ago. And I couldn't even type properly. I am home schooled now, and have learned 20x more, Literally, then I did in public Government sponsored schools. To much sex and violence to concentrate in school.

[Cyrus992]

THE LESSON ON GOVERNMENT RUN HEALTH CARE CAN BE LEARNED FROM THIS CLIP!!!

Look at the dysfunctional and disgraceful monopolies that dont compete and leave people behind because innovation does not mean no reward!!! OUR NEW REGULATED HEALTH CARE SYSTEM WILL REFLECT THAT!!!

WAKE UP AMERICA!!! Those socialists will mess as much as they can.. BUT THEY WONT MESS WITH LAS VEGAS!!

I am starting a capitalist revolution there!!!

[ConquerorWorm2012]

Our overbloated bureaucratic system of education is tragic and unforgivable. We are currently fashioning for ourselves a most unfortunate future in the form of today's student. Ignorant. Docile. Unaware. Unable to rationalize. No understanding of government or power structures. The Republic is already lost.

Maybe.

[caltrop69]

You give the public schools too much credit and individual parents not enough.

While I can't stand public schools, I think this idea that they can get away with "indoctrinating" children into sheeple, in spite of involved parents, is misinformed.

My daughter comes home, and we discuss any politics she's learned in school.

[ConquerorWorm2012]

Examine the continued downward trajectory of the public school curriculum. Examine the textbooks and state and federal standards. Examine the degree to which creativity and reasoned thinking has been replaced by specified minimal requirements on a watered-down state exam. I've been teaching for over a decade. I've watched the deterioration from the inside.

It's good that you are an involved parent, no doubt. But there can also be no doubt that the state-run school system has failed. Sadly.

[JME1282]

as if the public schools dont do the same thing in regards to indoctrination

[caltrop69]

@JME1282

Are you just reiterating the discussion, or is this meant to be an argument?

[Sondre7]

His final contribution to society: making the case for school vouchers. This man has done so much for the world. Thank you Milton!

[boxant]

My hope for the future, we will look back upon the 20th and early 21st century as the dark days of state control.

[Cyrus992]

boxant:

Amen!! We will see how this nonsense and depressing school system is stupid and worthless THAT WILL BE REPLACED BY A CAPITALIST BUSINESSES!!!

Just like we know think slavery is immoral, WE WILL SEE THAT PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE IMMORAL!!!

[nick10463]

Liberals created Ghettos. It's in their best interest to put as many people into ghettos as possible. They give them some money for living - and Ghetto's residents will vote for them in exchange. Very simple. Shameful too.

[imbubba56]

Well said by all on this thread.

[Cyrus992]

nick10463:

Great point. You should tell LOTS OF PEOPLE THAT!!!

[midwesttex]

@nick10463 - all true.

[AndroidPolitician]

@nick10463

Liberals lifted millions out of crippling poverty. In the 1800s the poverty rate was 30 to 50% but with evil liberal reforms it's never gone above 15%.

If it hadn't been for liberals, the entire country would of been a giant ghetto, not just the inner cities.

[nick10463]

@AndroidPolitician ..."In the 1800s the poverty rate was 30 to 50% but with evil liberal reforms it's never gone above 15%"...

Really? Do you think you get somewhere with all this stamped way of thinking? There are no liberals in Hong Kong, but their unemployment rate is under 5% and their average income is higher than Canadians.

Please go troll your garbage somewhere else. Thanks.

[AndroidPolitician]

@nick10463

in 1998, 52% of the people in Hong Kong lived in subsidized housing and all land is owned and rented to the government. That and almost all healthcare is public sector. It's not the free market utopia Friedman makes it out to be.

That plus welfare is the one proven thing which cuts down on poverty. That's why we don't have 30-50% today.

[nick10463]

@AndroidPolitician ..."in 1998, 52% of the people in Hong Kong lived in subsidized housing and all land is owned and rented to the government"...

So, are you saying it took them only 10 years of free market to get to 4% unemployment and income higher than Canadians? Wow! Are they that good or it's a free market's miracle?

Maybe we should learn from them?

[AndroidPolitician]

@nick10463

No I'm saying Hong Kong has a massive welfare state and that welfare is the biggest way to reduce poverty.

If the free market helped with anything, poverty in the 1800s wouldn't be quadruple what it is today.

[AndroidPolitician]

We already have school choice, parents can choose to go to a private or public school.

What Milton Friedman wants, is for tax dollars to subsidize private schools in a disastrous voucher scheme.

Countries that like Sweden, which tried this have destroyed their education.

It's also hypercritical since Friedman isn't advocating we subsidize certain industries in order to have "choice". Why shouldn't private schools operate on their own merit.

[nick10463]

@AndroidPolitician ..."We already have school choice"...

Last week's "New York Post" has reported that each student cost to NYC $18,000 per year! OK? With all these bloated public union pensions, salaries, security, overhead bureaucratic apparatus and of course fraud...

If City gives $8K to parents for charter school and keeps $10K to themselves, bingo! No stinking union sucking money, no overhead expenses, teachers have incentive to work even harder, more hours to earn more. Dept. of Ed be gone

[AndroidPolitician]

@nick10463

Oh jeez where do I begin? Unions fire more bad teachers through peer-review then the administrators and charter schools perform about 20% WORSE than public schools.

What your saying is you want to subsidize private schools and promote charters, things that empirical do worse then public schools, to improve the public school system?

As bad as public schools are, charters and vouchers are worse.

[nick10463]

@AndroidPolitician ..."Unions fire more bad teachers through peer-review"...

I think I understand your level of knowledge.... and it's about 0. What you just said is a lie and that makes further conversation with you absolutely meaningless.

Goodbye.

[AndroidPolitician]

@nick10463

I think you've been indoctrinated by Fox News.

If you've ever heard of peer-review, you'd know it gets rid of bad teachers much more than administrators. No teacher wants a bad teacher near by.

[mpc91]

@AndroidPolitician - Unions are not in the business of getting there members fired. If that were the case, New York City would not have a building full of teachers who don't teach, because they are dangerous to the children, but can't be fired because of union rules.

I think you've been indoctrinated by MSNBC, but it doesn't matter, you're full of it.

[AndroidPolitician]

@mpc91

Yeah the reality of peer-review getting rid of bad teachers more than administrators has been destroyed by your brilliant logic congrats.

[mpc91]

@AndroidPolitician - Reality? You know nothing of reality. You make it up as you go along to meet your own political whims. Reality doesn't enter the picture.

You want to promote a system where schools that do poorly get more money, fail again, and then just get more money.

Your system has failed, and your lies and myths can't change that.

Where do your charter school stats come from? Where is this teacher review firing teachers? How many? And I want sources, not "cause I said so".

[AndroidPolitician]

@mpc91

Bahahaha yeah I guess peer-review can't be real because it disproves whatever Fox News told you about unions.

I want schools to do badly? You're the one promoting charter schools which do significantly worse than public schools on average.

[mpc91]

@AndroidPolitician - Where is peer-review happening? Where are these teachers who are being fired?

It's a facade. Unions don't work that way.

I'm not saying you want schools to do badly, you're just promoting a system where failure is rewarded. Promoting a government monopoly that keeps the money flowing to bureaucrats and unions.

[AndroidPolitician]

@mpc91

Peer-review is happening in every school with unions, uh that's kind of ironic coming from the guy who wants charters which on average perform worse than charter schools.

[2dum2getsocialism]

@AndroidPolitician if charters and the voucher system are such a fail then why do the families competing for these spots fight and beat each other in line waiting for the opportunity?

peer review and unions are incompatible

just like a secret ballot and unions are inconpatible

[AndroidPolitician]

@2dum2getsocialism

It's charters on average, some charters get nice funding and are put in poor neighborhoods so yeah, those are better.

[AndroidPolitician]

@mpc91

(Cont.)

It was a Stanford study and in fact the single most detailed study on charter schools as of yet.

[LucienFati]

@nick10463 In my own experience; teachers of higher grades in high schools will complain and petition for the firing of poorer teachers in lower grades, because passing students under lower standards in the lower grades puts more of an undue burden on the teachers in higher grades. "Standards of Learning" that the ED has passed down was trying to fix this; though it did horribly; most good teachers find it more restricting than helpful really.

[RBNightlinger]

@nick10463 The best, most concise explanation for ghettos I've ever heard. Thank you.

[pauloolem]

@nick10463 wrong, it's proved that poor people don't vote, at least they vote less in comparison to wealthier people

[nick10463]

@pauloolem

--"it's proved that poor people don't vote"--

Empty, untruthful statement.

Come to Harlem on Election day, everyone is out waiting in line to vote for their food stamps! This is the only day this people get up yearly...

Learn.

.

[pauloolem]

@nick10463 your example is very poor. look at the studies, i'm not rigurous enough (and i'm the one to blame for that) to come up with figures and precise data, although we know, it's part of political science that people who are unemployed, who are poor, for various reasons (i could dive into some sociology...) vote much less. also, you don't need to tell me to learn. i wrote my master's thesis on the correlation between a minimum wage and the rate of unemployement, so i learn, thank you

[LeGioNoFZioN]

great video, great man, even greater program.

[jettbugg]

....I understand, but I also understand the government does not care if education is better, as if, they would rather the children were dumbed-down. To govt, it is another controlling money grab, and this is what they want. This is no longer an "of the people" leadership today.

[Elasaltaculos]

The more dumbed down and docile the populace, the easier to control they are.

[Tidoublemy]

Few things excite me more than logging into Youtube to see a new Milton Friedman video. Thanks, Libertypen!