Sorry to tell you it was Presiden George Bush who lent 2 trillion dollars to the banks with no strings attached. It was President Obama who spent stimulus money and save jobs for you and other Americans. It was the Republicans who drove this country off track.
Blood from a stone. This piece from the AP observes that the company does not have the money, Bank of America is calling the shots, and will not authorize payment. Maybe they should have organized a "sit in" where the money is- Bank of America or maybe they should be looking for another job instead of sitting in "victim mode" as 1 months back pay will not last them a lifetime. Common sense can be such a burden.
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Aw, shut up, you whiney Jew bitch! Tell your overpaid, tamale-chomping greaseballs (through a translator, of course) to go back to picking tangerines.........
all we are, are just numbers to companies. They don't care about us and with the cost of living going up, it's making it harder for people to make it out there!
I haven't been able to find a job period. I was laid off last year and started my own home business, nt getting rich but still making it OK, still I have been looking for other work, so far out of 3-4 contacts and resumes a week since 08/08, I have had one interview and no calls back.
@websuspect Look into fractional reserve banking. The problem is NOT capitalism, it is crony capitalism a.k.a. corporatism. The best regulation ever known to mankind is competition. The Federal Reserve printing money causing the bubbles to form is the problem.
Son, i think you're forgetting that there were jobs being lost before Obama had even taken office. Good job on turning off the MTV and keeping up to date on current events though. You're on your way.
Well duh. It wasn't until September of 2008 when Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac failed that the economy started taking a dive.
But that's nice: Bush practically clips the wings of the plane, then the plane drops 5,000 feet in altitude as it dives right into the ocean, and then he gives control to Obama, at which point the plane falls another 10,000 feet as it has no wings, so logically, we should blame Obama for dropping us 10,000 feet... Clearly its his fault!
You are all wrong. Bush and Obama have little impact on the economy. So funny you should say what you did because the wings of the plane were clipped by clinton when he signed a bill allowing people to get loans they should never have had. Point that finger at yourself. PWND!!
Sorry, but I never took out a loan, so PWN yourself for making dumb-ass assumptions about people you know nothing about.
Also, if Bush was such a hero, he could have fixed "Clinton's mistakes" that you point out in the first place.
The only one getting PWND here is Bush's supporters. Every day they come up with a new dumb-ass argument, trying to paint Obama as elitist or racist, or a terrorist, or claiming he wasn't even a natural born... pathetic...
Up to about a month ago or so, 3.6 million people lost their jobs. At the time the work force comprised 52% men and 48% women. Approx 2.95 million (82%) of the 3.6 million were men. Now, take it a step further. Of the 2.95 million, how many were white? Well over 90%, I can bet. That pretty much sums up my earlier comment. I haven't seen the latest stats, but I'm sure it's still headed in the same direction! Give everybody an EQUAL chance based on accomplishments not politically correctness!
Actually, being a woman, or handicapped, or a minority, or any other label is crucial to finding work. These qualifications will not only keep you from getting laid off, they will also automatically find you any job you'd like! Education, being a veteran, not doing drugs, volunteering, a number of things you do have control of, usually have no bearing in the hiring process. So, concentrate on your politically correct advantages and stress those at the your next job interview! Good luck!
ok sweety,all of u work the damn plant and keep it for u families.star making doors or wherever u guys do there and sell it all over to china and the world,if u need a sales person give me a call i sell the damn doors for u guys
Please call me at ORT Technical Institute, 847-324-5588- Ext. 23, we have a placement department that can assist you with resume writing, interviewing techniques and processing your resumes.
But maybe the workers should not give up the occupation right now. If the factory is about to close, they could run it themselves as workers are doing elsewhere.
Look up on the experience of factories under workers control in Argentina, e.g. Zanon, Brukman and many others. Because bosses need workers, but workers don't need bosses!
I dont have a lot of sympathy for these workers. I happen to know the company hired some illegal aliens. Now the politicians and the workers want the business to obey federal law giving sixty days notice. Seems to me rather hypocritical as politicians care nothing about laws making it illegal to hire non-citizens displacing Americans but now are falling all over each other to force a business to follow the law. The Bank of American is another issue. The same politicians allowed Banks to hoard $
To naui,,You are a funny guy, me a puppet to the elite. U mean like helping criminal greedy business lower wages using overwhelming numbers of cheap illegal criminal labor. You know the illegals you support. Plus if illegals were such a benefit to our economy how do you explain Calf budget woes. After all, Calf, the largest number of illegal aliens and sanctuary cities. Your accusations are just hiding your own racist agendas and lies. It's within our rights to question costs etc from illegals.
Bad management is not the Bank's responsibility. Get off the bank blame game.
Yeah make the bank start insuring business failures. That'll get us out of trouble in a big hurry. Give me a break and protest the company and the govenor.
ps... Enjoy your prison sentence Rod. Lets see how the posts land in the next 6 hours. You people took the side of our ultra-corrupt govenor (I'm from IL btw), and now one might feel a tad embarrassed that they didn't look at the situation more closely
{khmerdog}I think this is just the beginning because as more people have pretty much lost everything including their house, they are becoming so pissed and frustrated that they are now squatting where they used to work. Times are getting a lot tougher for many people.
Citi, Wells Fargo and Chase all received 25 billion. BOA has already kept this inept company afloat with credit for years, but is the only bank being blasted by you idiots. I wonder if I can hold the bank responsible for my salary and benefits if my employer fails. That would be nice. I suppose all banks should lend money according to the emotional value a debtor has, as opposed to their ability to actually repay the loan. Sounds like a solid business model. It worked out well for Fannie/Freddie
These people better watch it. King GW. Bush has abolished Posse Comitatus from constitution. He my declare these people Domestic Enemy Combatants, order military into factory & stop that civil unrest. After all it is a public gathering protesting current economic status in USA, Now illegal.
Also why the military was ordered to have 20,000 active troops deployed by 2011 INSIDE the United States.Control Civil Unrest! We may see that 1000 troops increased that went active Oct 1, 2008 inside USA.
This is just pure greed from republic, DID THEY EVER THINK THESE PEOPLE WERENT GOING TO GET MAD FOR TAKING FROM THEM WHAT THEIR OWED??? IF YOU TAKE MY SANDWICH AND DONT WANT TO GIVE IT BACK TO ME, IM GOING TO BE PISSED, IM SURPRISED NO ONE HAS USED AL' QAEDA TACTICS ON THESE GREEDY BASTARDS TO GET THEIR ATTENTION
These greedy fucking PIGS have been ruling this country and the world for WAY too long! It's time for a NEW way of organizing the means of production. There should be NO private property! Personal property is one thing, but, nobody should own the land and the means of production. That should be in the hands of the people and protected by the government. Call it communism, collectivism, socialism, whatever. It's COMING... through the struggles of common humans on this planet! Viva la revolution!
I can't help but notice most workers were Hispanic. After seeing companies displace citizens for cheap illegal labor. I cant help but wonder how many at this factory are illegals. Now the Gov, Durbin, Obama are demanding the business follow federal law giving sixty days notice but what about other federal law about hiring non-citizens. BOA bought out countywide and received billions. Seems to me one giant pile of crooks and cons, hardly heros. Politicians, banks N illegals, God bless the U.S.
Man, you sure get a lot of comments from greedy, hateful right-wing assholes here! How many of you punks have ever done any real work? How many hours would you last on an auto assembly line?
These workers are heroes! They are risking arrest to fight for justice and fight for their jobs.
Ummmm...I worked at Mickey D's, dug ditches, did construction work, mowed lawns...even tore down a house when I was 15...and did 2 tours in Viet Nam...we sure get a lot of comments from greedy, hateful left-wing assholes here!
Thanks for your comment Unionguy36. Surely, the bank would be happy to know that folks are attacking the workers, and talking bad about them --- and distracting everyone from the bank's responsibility in this mess.
peterfdrucker,,I certainly agree with you about the scum bankers but there are a number of issues dealing with this problem. The politicians that helped create this mess are now grandstanding with workers when much of this could have been avoided yrs ago. This is the beginning of the purging of U.S. jobs.
We have already seen the lowering of wages using illegal labor.
With so much corruption and so many issue I truly worry about the next few yrs.
Out of control BORROW & spend goes back decades. The current leverage crisis is just the LATEST example - the straw that FINALLY BROKE the camel's back. Don't forget, MANY WARNED about the DANGEROUS LONG TERM consequences back in the 80's, when Reagan took this CREDIT CARD approach to governing, injected it with steroids, & essentially made it PSEUDO conservative dogma, the NATIONAL RELIGION!
Ron Paul was RIGHT - in 1988, & in 2008. His LOST party (& country) ignored him. Shame.
Carter started the Fanny/ Freddy mess...not Reagan. The mortgage borrowing without assets is not right wing, but an attempt by the left to get people that couldn't qualify under normal lending practices into homes. The left said that the banks were discriminating and strongly encouraged Fanny and Freddie to change the mortgage rules and loan without collateral or even credit checks...a bubble in prices resulted and then burst leaving banks with negative value mortgages...and here we are.
NakedLady,,,Youre right Carter did start this mess with a misguided attempt at ending discrimination which actually ended up being more exploitation. Helped along by Clinton in 1999 packaging the toxic loans with good. 2004 Barney Frank and Congresswoman Waters stopped any regulation and again in 2006. While 2004 Rep controlled congress not in 2006. The Dems would like to blame one side and they are all just different wings of the same bird. We are in trouble from an inapt corrupted gov.
The few banks and mortgage companies that did their HOMEWORK (as opposed to being "encouraged" lol) are doing fine. Nobody had a gun to their head. The GOP had control 2001 - January 2007 and could have done a LOT more if they REALLY wanted to, but EVERYBODY (Reps & Dems) was making $. The out of control leverage mindset goes back to Reagan. Before Reagan, we actually MADE things in this country! Remember? You can sell ANYTHING in America with a flag. Nixon, Reagan, Bush . . .
Why is the government pressuring Bank of America to make a bad loan? Isnt this how the financial crisis started? If they were UAW workers, then they could get paid for not coming to work.
After years of hearing liberals say that they "support the troops" but not the war, I think it is only fair to use the same logic with car companies. From now on, I support the workers but not the union.
This is an example of why we need to bailout the common people not brokerage and auto manufacturer CEO's. If Congress gave each USA citizen over 18 years old $250,000 it would SAVE money! This would help these workers and the rest of us. We'd pay our bills, buy cars and lots of other stuff - crisis over. Instead of trickle-down economics that help those already rich, it's time for some evaporation.
It does not work. We should tax the top 5% by a 10 to 20% increase and cut taxes to the working class, or have a flat 15 to 20% income tax with no tax right offs. But I say tax the rich for the next 20 or 30 years because they have been cutting their taxes since Reagan took power.
House/feed/clothe everyone who needs it, no questions asked. Refuse to hurt anyone. Destroy all weapons of mass destruction. Spread this message. John Lennon was in communication with this old intelligence, see his song mind games on my channel favorites. This is not bullshit.
This may sound crazy, but after making a connection, under certain mind altering molecules placed on our Earth, with the oldest evolved intelligence in the universe, I understood, a little, that LOVE REALLY IS THE ANSWER! We have to enlighten this planet before we can become part of the community of the universe, or we will be destroyed.
I question how many of these workers are illegal immigrants and now they want a federal law obeyed. Why should a company start obeying federal laws now?
Chicago is a sanctuary city and if picking and choosing which federal laws to obey is OK for them its OK for the company. If you cry Im profiling well, when you march in the street waving the mexican flag demanding rights for breaking laws in Spanish the questions are obvious.
Hows it feel to be unfairly displaced? You reap what U sow.
What you say isn't true. America is the richest society on Earth ever for a reason...the system does work. Things may look bad to you now, but it's because you have enjoyed the security that our system has provided for you over a relatively unevenful period and have not expierienced the World in this sort of turmoil before...but humankind has been to this place and worse many times before and this too shall pass.
A bank can't tell a company who to pay and who not to pay...that makes no sense. Maybe the bank can bring legal action to freeze company assets, but then the workers/ union can challenge that legally. The workers can also challenge through state regulations. There are probably bankruptcy proceedings going on and the company and bank are precluded by law from paying anything until those issues are sorted out. The union is apparently smearing the bank..when the bank is actually blameless.
cutting corporate taxes is one of the things that put our government in debt. it doesn't help anything, it just bankrupts us. trickle down economics doesn't work, it never has and never will. even Reagen raised taxes on corporations, 11 times to be exact.
This is great, now to really set an example that could be followed across the country is there any way you can fire up the factory and start producing again? Show the world that there's no need for the boss to organize production... turn it into an autonomous factory run by worker council. Occupy, Resist, Produce! peace and solidarity.
Way to go! These folks deserve respect and support. Hopefully, other workers who are being screwed out of their pensions, healthcare or wages, will take notice and do the same.
The economic crisis has many factors at play. The Banksters are the recipients, not mainstreet of TARP funds.
Ex: Peter Sherman, NC BOA (He loves throwing his petty weight by banning paying members of IHUB-a popular, corrupt,SEC-pro, trading community. He has(via his hired admin, those members he doesn't agree with).His ass-o-ates, Joel Levitin, Cahill Gordon&Reindel LLP, John OKane, ,John Katz, Panagos Katz, Peter Sherman, BOA America Secur, etc.
These people have no idea why they had to be let go and why the economy is where it's at right now.
One word: Unions. If we want our jobs to stay in the US, then we need to be able to work at the wages we can get, without benefits they don't want to give, etc.
People do care about what's happening here. And people are doing things that you can't even see. This situation is not going unnoticed. So Republic Windows is helping people see the light!! How ironic is that? :)
Hoobler99: Amen to that. The only problem is stuff like this has been going on for years. Execs cutting health care, pentions, shift pay and the list goes on. But the bastards never take a cut themselves when they do a poor job. They give themselves bonuses for poor results while the people on the bottom suffer. WAKE UP FOLKS
I wish these people the best, as its just another reason for the rich to fuck over the poor. The way I see it, stuff like this needs to happen as a wake up call as to whats REALLY going down in America...and maybe more of this will happen.
And by everyone, you mean the minority who controls the state and economy. Of course they'll back "trickle down" (its income redistribution from the bottom to the top) until its no longer feasible (which is quickly becoming the case), or worker resistance becomes such, that such policies are no longer possible.
If the workers did not believe in trickle down there should be riots in the streets because if trickle down theory does not work then this is then the biggest theft of citizen wealth ever witnessed.
Worker resistance to their employers is misguided and amounts to bleeding their own cow. The real enemy is the Fed ... always has been.
Its not that trickle down doesn't work its that government pours money into unproductive holes that other won't invest in, not into productive businesses.
I really don't understand the notion of private businesses being more productive and efficient. Efficient at what? Exploiting workers? Concentrating wealth at the top?
Sure its damned efficient at that, but when I refer to efficiency, I'm talking about allowing everyone in a wealthy society to live a dignified life, without having to pay an arm an a leg and where one actually has a say in society.
Most private businesses don't produce great wealth. What happened here is that the BOA refused to loan this business any more money and the business failed. The owners of this business lost any wealth they had invested in the business and the assets of the business will eventually be sold to satisfy debts including anything owed to the workers. That's the way this works...the economy crashes and people get hurt...owners and workers. There are no bad guys here.
There may be no bad guys but there is a difference. Owners are making an investment risk whereas workers are under contract to get paid a certain amount of money. They run the risk of being fired under the law but shouldn't run the risk of not getting paid as per their contract. Another problem is owners often work for their own companies and they make sure they are getting paid by the company first without doing the same for their workers.
I think that the workers got paid for the hours they worked but feel like they are owed for the 60 day severence that is required by their Union contract. The problem is that the company is defunct and there is no money left to pay them with. If the owners did suck up any funds at the end, then the bankruptcy Judge will deal with that legally. Either way, the owners and investors are taking a huge hit here...everybody loses on this one...the owners most of all
I find it amazing that communism is the only ideology to some people that is like virginity. In that it "never existed" or was instantly "betrayed" by Lenin or the Stalinists or w/e. Im sure the capitalists arent so dogmatic when it comes to things like "pure capitalism" or "state-socialism" or w/e.
there are safe things to measure capitalism cynicsmeltdown first reoccurring economic crisis, unemployment, wage slashes, economic downturn this is not the characteristic of these so called "state capitalist" nations in fact their economies boomed. The adherents to "state capitalism" are sectarian irrelevant demoralizers in the Communist movement who offer no solutions and just criticize and criticize eventually drawing people away from ANYTHING that betters them or gives them hope.
and here lies the key factor in determining this bunk theory. You are only defining it in the it has more "credibility"? The Cliffite or Left-Communist sects(the ones who adhere to this "theory") are even SMALLER than the Stalinist ones and they are defined solely to the Western industrialized states.
Its not abstract credibility in intellectual circles. Its actually having the ability to argue with regular people about the nature of Stalinism.
Its a lot harder to convince people of your commitment to workers' power (I'm not saying most CP activists aren't), if you claim a regime like Stalin's or Mao's is in any way shape or form a "workers' state", and therefore the goal. I've found that has been one of the biggest obstacles to winning workers and students over to socialism in the West.
I think you have it wrong from all the people Ive talked to they dont want to recreate what the Soviet Union or China did. Thats because their conditions were different in Russia or China for one; western nations were not semi-feudal like Russia or China. Lastly, this state capitalist theory doesn't win anyone over, its merely an attempt to preserve the virginity of Marxism and lump people who uphold those past nations in the same category as capitalists in their own nations.
Theres a reason why Marx never defined what "true socialism" was or its economic outlayings; that is because Marx was an economist and political scientist and to "predict" something that did not exist yet is pure foolishness.
Ideas on socialism had been around long before Marx (Marx benefited greatly from the works of Proudhon and Adam Smith, for example). And Bakunin predicted what would happen if state socialism were ever implemented fairly well--slavery for the masses and self-perpetuating dictatorship. Marx made a very compelling critique of capitalism, but his means for changing things were abhorrent.
Many Marxists seem to make the mistake of confusing socialism with the redistribution of wealth. Socialism isn't about letting a state redistribute resources as it sees fit. It's about reinstating the natural distribution of wealth--letting the people control the resources they use for themselves.
But then again, who cares what Marx said? His works don't hold a monopoly on socialist ideas or classifications of people. Anyway, classes are only good for making generalizations to supplement theory or ideology. There are virtually no limits to the ways human beings can be classified. That's not to say all classification is fruitless though, as most human knowledge depends on similar subjective classifications.
None of that stuff you just said makes any sense at all. You just threw out a bunch of big words to make you sound smart and confuse other people. You are transparent.
My last comment was posted as a reply to stratvic if that clears up any of the confusion. Otherwise, I'm not sure what you expect: 1) This is youtube. 2) Big words let you say more in under 500 characters.
Still Marxists are correct to assume Marx advocated redistribution of wealth aka Mugabe...we can agree however that wealth redistribution is a mistaken idea provided of course that the wealth is attained justly, but even then it should go to the wronged not the most needy.
Proudhon and Bakunin were also conspiratorial elitists. Anyone whose ever read their writings knows that they really didn't give a shit about the masses.
I'm not sure that I got "conspiratorial elitists" from reading their works, but who knows? I simply appreciate many of their contributions to political discourse. I can't vouch for them personally.
Oy "State capitalism" huh? Is it just me or are the Cliffite/Left-Communist adherents of the "state capitalist" myth, really believe what they are saying or do they merely want to trick the capitalists into joining their side. "State capitalist" 'theory' is nothing but a demoralizing element made up from demagogues like Tony Cliff and an array of Left-Communists and Trotskyites. cyncismeltdown what is "true socialism" are capitalists like Ninja Tech "fake capitalists" or "pure capitalists"or wat
I am inspired to see the people of Argentina take back their nation. At least the workers were TRYING to do what they could to form a better society. Those who put that down are probably closet PIGS. All they want is ME-ME-ME. That will get us NOWHERE. We need REAL solutions that takes humanity into account. These workers were not out for themselves, but the good of everyone. They were willing to share. Get off the selfish cynicism. We need a NEW way of doing things! No matter what you call it.
that "business model" had a lot of dominance in Nazi Germany, Italy, Spain, and ironically "market socialist" Yugoslavia. You should check at the number of unemployment or wages slashed when that was implemented.
I'm almost positive that workers had very little materially at stake with any of the fascist regimes (and nice try, Yugoslavia, while a bureaucratic nightmare, was not fascist).
Fascism is a middle class reaction to the working class, so no, generally they don't allow their class enemies to have even the slightest amount of control over the means of production.
I never said Yugoslavia was fascist, but its style was a corporatist model. Just like the one Ninja Tech was talking about. Of course the workers dont have any say b/c they dont do any of the real bargaining, its only for show. Depends on what you define as "middle class" if you think reaction as in workers with big union wages then your wrong, if you mean middle class as in the elite who run this country then you are right.
I agree, yeah the workers didn't have control of the means of production at any point in Yugoslavia(much like every other Stalinist country other than Russia for a few years following '17), but in a fascist country, they wouldn't even bother giving lip service to workers' power.
I should have been specific about "middle class", since its a weak term. I was referring mostly to the petty bourgeois professional class as well as the small time capitalists caught between labor and big capital.
oh right here we go with the same old "Communism doesn't work" balogne. Seriously you guys lose credibility when it conquered 1/6th of the globe. Burying our heads in the sand? Capitalism is in a crisis and I am acting like I am not in reality? buddy do you realize how many workers lost their jobs just THIS year; with economists saying its goign to get worse?
Total commie talk huh? considering Communists are the only people today that are fighting with the utmost enthusiasm for the rights of workers I cant say im offended.
"No if you want to be in chage, then START YOUR OWN COMPANY! You don't have the right to demand a company someone else started. "
Who said we have to follow YOUR rigid capitalist morality on right and wrong? workers and managers are as every part of a company if not MORE since they run it than ANYONE else.
Communisim doesn't work period. Sure if everyone was equal and played nice, in the perfect world it should work, but that is not reality, and hiding behind communist ideas is burrying your head in the sand to the truth of reality and holding onto a fairy dream ideology.
There are business models where employees can share in the desision making and get a share of the profits, which is a totally viable plan.
I learned nothing new fromt he video and I do have an open mind. DO YOU?
Ninja, what do you consider "communism"? Because communism has NEVER existed in all of history. Russia and China became State Capitalism. They never got beyond even the beginnings of true socialism. All that aside, these workers in Argentina were not adopting any of those Marxist philosophies. They were simply trying to get the means of production back into their hands and to try a new model of production. Why put them down with totally false labels? You are very ignorant about history.
LOL This is total commie talk. So how will the workers being in charge be any different or make it better? There is a Who song that kind of illustrates that point. No if you want to be in chage, then START YOUR OWN COMPANY! You don't have the right to demand a company someone else started.
Watch the movie and LEARN. Your questions will be answered. That is if you are open minded. Are you a commie mommy? Let's get real. Quit throwing rhetoric around! Don't you care about the future?
Ninja, when you say "START YOUR OWN COMPANY", you imply OWNERSHIP. Who the hell has the "right" to "own" anything? If the workers took control of the factory, then they "own" it just as much as some military coup would give some multinational company the "ownership" of anything. Nobody "owns" anything. If the workers control the factory, then they "own" it. Can you handle that "philosophy"? If they fuck it up, then they lose it, but, until then, they "own" it, see? The people will be the judge!
chelives, I don't even care about all that argument. I am a populist. I like to see the struggle of people coming together to fight for justice and a social system that is born out of that struggle. Some call that anarchy, others call it communism. I don't know what the hell to call it, but, I have to say, I like it. Long live the struggle for humane systems. The struggle never ends.
Dialectical materialism would reveal that China and the Soviet Union were/are State Capitalist. I guess I'd rather take the anarchist model of collectivism. I'm not discounting any movement in the overall struggle, but, I'm not going to get religious about it. It gives me a headache. I'd rather dance and drink in the streets with the people who are CREATING the fucking struggle! To hell with the politburo! LOL! ;-)
Guys the best strategy to save this country is to blindly hand the big corporations and to the banks that created this mess. It's not the banks fault that they investing in risky companies knowingly, or gave out sub-prime mortgages to people who obviously couldn't pay them. 700 billions dollars isn't a bid deal. Everyones just gotta chill the fuck out. Bush is doing a great job in 8 years. It's good we re-elected him.
Check out a story about a similar situation on wikipedia: "FaSinPat, formerly known as Zanon, is a worker-controlled ceramic tile factory in the southern Argentine province of Neuquén, and one of the most prominent in the recovered factory movement of Argentina. The name is short for Fábrica Sin Patrones, which means "Factory Without Bosses" in Spanish."
The workers also started by taking it over in bankruptcy. After they began to run it at a profit.
I mentioned it earlier, but the documentary "The Take" covers a lot of information about the worker-controlled factories in Argentina. Search google for "The.Take.2004.avi with English subtitles" if you haven't seen it. There are some clips on youtube as well.
Hey Pananarchist, thanks for mentioning "The Take." I think it's worth mentioning in this context, because the people in that documentary were facing an almost identical situation. Country's financial system tanks; factory goes bankrupt and tries to short the workers to pay other creditors; workers occupy the factory, and eventually use bankruptcy law to take it over lawfully.
Folks who haven't seen this should check it out for positive & workable solutions to what the RW&D staff are facing.
ouch 5 watt bulb?! consider yourself purged from my xmas card list! lol why should i care what some guy from Turkey thinks about me? Ill give you this you at least havent taken my flame bait.
Anyone who doesn't support these people who are just asking for money that theyve worked for are a bunch of fascist scum. Bank of America got its 25 billion dollars and they cant pay 200 workers 1 million in money they actually worked for?
myroncope wrote: "More workers should follow their lead. People of Chicago, go down there and support these people, feed them, help them out. Right on UE!"
Thank you for an intelligent statement! I'm appalled at the lack of basic human decency with some of these posts. I guess these folks were beaten by their parents and never shown any love, so they don't know what it even feels like to have love in their hearts for their fellow humans and the basic struggle to survive. Thanks for your post!
the government this the government that it's your fault that YOU lost your job because congress gave them your money and YOU elect everyone in congress i am happy that you can't feed your kids
America...the New Banana Republic-----Barackzeebub and the Clintonistas will give every one everything they want. Barackzeebub cant even wait til January to start his Robin Hood Policies.
are you kidding me "Robin Hood"? Obama and McCain voted to give 700 Billion Dollars to the RICH, and hes going back on his word in regards to "95% tax cut". Obama is a scum bag.
chelives3289-----> Why don't you go to Florida and tell your Comrades of the wonders of Marxism? I bet you wouldn't last very long :D Vladimir Lenin should be your tag.
chelives3289-----> Why don't you go to Florida and tell your Comrades of the wonders of Marxism? I bet you wouldn't last very long :D Vladimir Lenin should be your tag.
I actually have; and if you are trying to talk of the exile cuban pigs in Miami I could care less; they are all a bunch of terrorist scum who supported the butchering of my homeland by lending moral support to the contras.
The workers should just start working again. Worker-managed factories are more efficient and better for workers anyway. I wonder what the government would do to stop them?
Search "The.Take.2004.avi with English subtitles" on google if you're skeptical.
I could care less what a bunch of cuban crypto-fascists think. Butcher of La Cabana eh? How can one be a "butcher" of people who had trials and were butchers themselves.
I think it's kind of funny how all of these workers get illegally hosed by their employers, and people are actually trying to make them look like the "bad guys." You're right, they should just got get another job. Too bad 40% of all factory jobs in America have already been shipped overseas so companies can make a quick buck, I mean, stay competitive. Oh well, tough luck I guess, move to India and stop complaining, right? Get real.
What these workers are doing is expressing the very essence of what it is to be a citizen of the USA. They worked hard, paid their taxes and held their faith in the political system. When this system failed them, they took action. Their actions should be an example to all of us. It is time for the all working class Americans to stand up and take back what belongs to them. The ideology of the rich has failed. We live in a new era, and we will demand a new, New Deal.
If you havent noticed jackass there are no jobs; just what those workers are protesting along with Bank of America not giving them their money that they worked for. For a Republican you people sure as hell show your true colors and who you really whore for. Your candidate John McCain and Sarah palin ran on representing "hard working americans" and "working class" and played that they were "anti-elitist" yeah right!
IT WAS BOTH PARTYS I JUST GOT LAYED OFF AT RICOH FACTORY RIGHT AFTER WORK TO DAY
ltdan459 2 months ago
Sorry to tell you it was Presiden George Bush who lent 2 trillion dollars to the banks with no strings attached. It was President Obama who spent stimulus money and save jobs for you and other Americans. It was the Republicans who drove this country off track.
jhnwllms47 3 months ago
Blood from a stone. This piece from the AP observes that the company does not have the money, Bank of America is calling the shots, and will not authorize payment. Maybe they should have organized a "sit in" where the money is- Bank of America or maybe they should be looking for another job instead of sitting in "victim mode" as 1 months back pay will not last them a lifetime. Common sense can be such a burden.
Stockpile1 1 year ago
Workers of the World, UNITE!
alen209 1 year ago
THEY TOOK ER JOB!!!!
MrDrumazing 2 years ago
LOL
NoFx090 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Aw, shut up, you whiney Jew bitch! Tell your overpaid, tamale-chomping greaseballs (through a translator, of course) to go back to picking tangerines.........
FrankeeFraud 2 years ago
i was just laid off :(
nicholasczapiewski 2 years ago
good times.
ozkaa 2 years ago
Workers of all countries unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains.
chinaalteclansing 2 years ago 3
all we are, are just numbers to companies. They don't care about us and with the cost of living going up, it's making it harder for people to make it out there!
tournament34angler 2 years ago 3
Either they lay off a couple or the entire company goes down. That is how is works. Just numbers? Really? Maybe in your company but not mine.
snerjeck 2 years ago
At 0:13, the video says that the WHOLE factory was shutting down.
FuzzyGhost 2 years ago
I haven't been able to find a job period. I was laid off last year and started my own home business, nt getting rich but still making it OK, still I have been looking for other work, so far out of 3-4 contacts and resumes a week since 08/08, I have had one interview and no calls back.
IMPLR1369007 2 years ago
3.3 of the 5.1 million jobs lost have been since Obama has taken office. Wake up America!
Source: Department of Labor
tosumitup 2 years ago 3
Thank Obama he lent 2 trillion to banks and banks wont loan.
websuspect 2 years ago 10
@websuspect Look into fractional reserve banking. The problem is NOT capitalism, it is crony capitalism a.k.a. corporatism. The best regulation ever known to mankind is competition. The Federal Reserve printing money causing the bubbles to form is the problem.
residentzombie 1 year ago
@websuspect it really make no sense!!!
seigneurvoland666 8 months ago
Son, i think you're forgetting that there were jobs being lost before Obama had even taken office. Good job on turning off the MTV and keeping up to date on current events though. You're on your way.
lessavyfav712712 2 years ago
Well duh. It wasn't until September of 2008 when Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac failed that the economy started taking a dive.
But that's nice: Bush practically clips the wings of the plane, then the plane drops 5,000 feet in altitude as it dives right into the ocean, and then he gives control to Obama, at which point the plane falls another 10,000 feet as it has no wings, so logically, we should blame Obama for dropping us 10,000 feet... Clearly its his fault!
Conservative logic at its finest.
eggiex1 2 years ago
You are all wrong. Bush and Obama have little impact on the economy. So funny you should say what you did because the wings of the plane were clipped by clinton when he signed a bill allowing people to get loans they should never have had. Point that finger at yourself. PWND!!
snerjeck 2 years ago
Sorry, but I never took out a loan, so PWN yourself for making dumb-ass assumptions about people you know nothing about.
Also, if Bush was such a hero, he could have fixed "Clinton's mistakes" that you point out in the first place.
The only one getting PWND here is Bush's supporters. Every day they come up with a new dumb-ass argument, trying to paint Obama as elitist or racist, or a terrorist, or claiming he wasn't even a natural born... pathetic...
eggiex1 2 years ago
@snerjeck please leave me alone
youcreatea 1 year ago
Up to about a month ago or so, 3.6 million people lost their jobs. At the time the work force comprised 52% men and 48% women. Approx 2.95 million (82%) of the 3.6 million were men. Now, take it a step further. Of the 2.95 million, how many were white? Well over 90%, I can bet. That pretty much sums up my earlier comment. I haven't seen the latest stats, but I'm sure it's still headed in the same direction! Give everybody an EQUAL chance based on accomplishments not politically correctness!
tosumitup 2 years ago
but white males are bein laid off too!!! all races, genders, religions, etc. are all feeling the strain of the credit crunch and economic downturn.
Dimebag204 2 years ago 8
Actually, being a woman, or handicapped, or a minority, or any other label is crucial to finding work. These qualifications will not only keep you from getting laid off, they will also automatically find you any job you'd like! Education, being a veteran, not doing drugs, volunteering, a number of things you do have control of, usually have no bearing in the hiring process. So, concentrate on your politically correct advantages and stress those at the your next job interview! Good luck!
tosumitup 2 years ago
yeah right
emmyphale 2 years ago
you've been dumb a long time, innit?
BigPreme74 2 years ago
I'm seeing lots of minorities and women in this video, we're all feeling it.
mettabee 2 years ago 2
ok sweety,all of u work the damn plant and keep it for u families.star making doors or wherever u guys do there and sell it all over to china and the world,if u need a sales person give me a call i sell the damn doors for u guys
asmetuyasiempre 2 years ago
Listen dickhead...All workers get shafted one way or the other so fucking grow up...
randazzio63 2 years ago
damn leah reid looks good
t0m0369 3 years ago
in shifts! (LOL)
i just got laidoff today. my co. was 8 now 7.
boswellchrome 3 years ago
-- WORKERS in USA can only suck big coorporation dicks , and USA goverment dick.
aviomaster 3 years ago 3
Please call me at ORT Technical Institute, 847-324-5588- Ext. 23, we have a placement department that can assist you with resume writing, interviewing techniques and processing your resumes.
mlasalle2009 3 years ago
I was laid off and never got any severance. And I was 5 months pregnant at the time too...bastards!
Check out my channel to see what I did!
stacygulick 3 years ago
More kids isn't the answer. ;)
AreYouKidding204 3 years ago
THis is soo sad! if anyone watching this wants WANTS REAL FINANCIAL FREEDOM! PLEASE CONTACT ME IT MIGHT JUST CHANGE YOUR LIFE!!
I was them 4 months ago!!!
Blessings~Heather
jackie11lilly 3 years ago
Great struggle, great victory!Gongratulations.
But maybe the workers should not give up the occupation right now. If the factory is about to close, they could run it themselves as workers are doing elsewhere.
Look up on the experience of factories under workers control in Argentina, e.g. Zanon, Brukman and many others. Because bosses need workers, but workers don't need bosses!
pterryn 3 years ago
Solidarity from Sweden! Fight the capitalist system!
97036 3 years ago 3
I dont have a lot of sympathy for these workers. I happen to know the company hired some illegal aliens. Now the politicians and the workers want the business to obey federal law giving sixty days notice. Seems to me rather hypocritical as politicians care nothing about laws making it illegal to hire non-citizens displacing Americans but now are falling all over each other to force a business to follow the law. The Bank of American is another issue. The same politicians allowed Banks to hoard $
tellusmore 3 years ago
You are just a hater tellusmore . You are just a pupppet to the elite .
nauiocelotl 3 years ago
To naui,,You are a funny guy, me a puppet to the elite. U mean like helping criminal greedy business lower wages using overwhelming numbers of cheap illegal criminal labor. You know the illegals you support. Plus if illegals were such a benefit to our economy how do you explain Calf budget woes. After all, Calf, the largest number of illegal aliens and sanctuary cities. Your accusations are just hiding your own racist agendas and lies. It's within our rights to question costs etc from illegals.
tellusmore 3 years ago
You both know that if the government wanted illegals out let alone a white nation he would have it.
newjersey02 2 years ago
Bad management is not the Bank's responsibility. Get off the bank blame game.
Yeah make the bank start insuring business failures. That'll get us out of trouble in a big hurry. Give me a break and protest the company and the govenor.
ps... Enjoy your prison sentence Rod. Lets see how the posts land in the next 6 hours. You people took the side of our ultra-corrupt govenor (I'm from IL btw), and now one might feel a tad embarrassed that they didn't look at the situation more closely
xlweapons 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Anyone check their greencards?
raultalbot7 3 years ago
anyone check to see if this idiot has a soul..
CZARVII 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
iamthewitness
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buddyis12 3 years ago
BANK OF AMERICA shall SUCK SATAN'S COCK now
AcaiBerryMONAVIE 3 years ago
{khmerdog}I think this is just the beginning because as more people have pretty much lost everything including their house, they are becoming so pissed and frustrated that they are now squatting where they used to work. Times are getting a lot tougher for many people.
quitearow 3 years ago
Citi, Wells Fargo and Chase all received 25 billion. BOA has already kept this inept company afloat with credit for years, but is the only bank being blasted by you idiots. I wonder if I can hold the bank responsible for my salary and benefits if my employer fails. That would be nice. I suppose all banks should lend money according to the emotional value a debtor has, as opposed to their ability to actually repay the loan. Sounds like a solid business model. It worked out well for Fannie/Freddie
bpcarp83 3 years ago
These people better watch it. King GW. Bush has abolished Posse Comitatus from constitution. He my declare these people Domestic Enemy Combatants, order military into factory & stop that civil unrest. After all it is a public gathering protesting current economic status in USA, Now illegal.
Also why the military was ordered to have 20,000 active troops deployed by 2011 INSIDE the United States.Control Civil Unrest! We may see that 1000 troops increased that went active Oct 1, 2008 inside USA.
charlesjackson10 3 years ago
This is just pure greed from republic, DID THEY EVER THINK THESE PEOPLE WERENT GOING TO GET MAD FOR TAKING FROM THEM WHAT THEIR OWED??? IF YOU TAKE MY SANDWICH AND DONT WANT TO GIVE IT BACK TO ME, IM GOING TO BE PISSED, IM SURPRISED NO ONE HAS USED AL' QAEDA TACTICS ON THESE GREEDY BASTARDS TO GET THEIR ATTENTION
Otherworldlybeing 3 years ago
These greedy fucking PIGS have been ruling this country and the world for WAY too long! It's time for a NEW way of organizing the means of production. There should be NO private property! Personal property is one thing, but, nobody should own the land and the means of production. That should be in the hands of the people and protected by the government. Call it communism, collectivism, socialism, whatever. It's COMING... through the struggles of common humans on this planet! Viva la revolution!
cynicismeltdown 3 years ago 3
I call it justice
shupariusshah 3 years ago
I can't help but notice most workers were Hispanic. After seeing companies displace citizens for cheap illegal labor. I cant help but wonder how many at this factory are illegals. Now the Gov, Durbin, Obama are demanding the business follow federal law giving sixty days notice but what about other federal law about hiring non-citizens. BOA bought out countywide and received billions. Seems to me one giant pile of crooks and cons, hardly heros. Politicians, banks N illegals, God bless the U.S.
tellusmore 3 years ago
Man, you sure get a lot of comments from greedy, hateful right-wing assholes here! How many of you punks have ever done any real work? How many hours would you last on an auto assembly line?
These workers are heroes! They are risking arrest to fight for justice and fight for their jobs.
unionguy36 3 years ago 5
Ummmm...I worked at Mickey D's, dug ditches, did construction work, mowed lawns...even tore down a house when I was 15...and did 2 tours in Viet Nam...we sure get a lot of comments from greedy, hateful left-wing assholes here!
NakedLadyMudFlap 3 years ago
Thanks for your comment Unionguy36. Surely, the bank would be happy to know that folks are attacking the workers, and talking bad about them --- and distracting everyone from the bank's responsibility in this mess.
Anyways, thanks again!
peterfdrucker 3 years ago
peterfdrucker,,I certainly agree with you about the scum bankers but there are a number of issues dealing with this problem. The politicians that helped create this mess are now grandstanding with workers when much of this could have been avoided yrs ago. This is the beginning of the purging of U.S. jobs.
We have already seen the lowering of wages using illegal labor.
With so much corruption and so many issue I truly worry about the next few yrs.
tellusmore 3 years ago
Out of control BORROW & spend goes back decades. The current leverage crisis is just the LATEST example - the straw that FINALLY BROKE the camel's back. Don't forget, MANY WARNED about the DANGEROUS LONG TERM consequences back in the 80's, when Reagan took this CREDIT CARD approach to governing, injected it with steroids, & essentially made it PSEUDO conservative dogma, the NATIONAL RELIGION!
Ron Paul was RIGHT - in 1988, & in 2008. His LOST party (& country) ignored him. Shame.
RonPaulGeorgeRingo 3 years ago
Carter started the Fanny/ Freddy mess...not Reagan. The mortgage borrowing without assets is not right wing, but an attempt by the left to get people that couldn't qualify under normal lending practices into homes. The left said that the banks were discriminating and strongly encouraged Fanny and Freddie to change the mortgage rules and loan without collateral or even credit checks...a bubble in prices resulted and then burst leaving banks with negative value mortgages...and here we are.
NakedLadyMudFlap 3 years ago
NakedLady,,,Youre right Carter did start this mess with a misguided attempt at ending discrimination which actually ended up being more exploitation. Helped along by Clinton in 1999 packaging the toxic loans with good. 2004 Barney Frank and Congresswoman Waters stopped any regulation and again in 2006. While 2004 Rep controlled congress not in 2006. The Dems would like to blame one side and they are all just different wings of the same bird. We are in trouble from an inapt corrupted gov.
tellusmore 3 years ago
The few banks and mortgage companies that did their HOMEWORK (as opposed to being "encouraged" lol) are doing fine. Nobody had a gun to their head. The GOP had control 2001 - January 2007 and could have done a LOT more if they REALLY wanted to, but EVERYBODY (Reps & Dems) was making $. The out of control leverage mindset goes back to Reagan. Before Reagan, we actually MADE things in this country! Remember? You can sell ANYTHING in America with a flag. Nixon, Reagan, Bush . . .
RonPaulGeorgeRingo 3 years ago
This is suppose to be Obama country! Where is he at this time. He is still a Senator if I'm not mistaken.
infinitycj 3 years ago 2
Why is the government pressuring Bank of America to make a bad loan? Isnt this how the financial crisis started? If they were UAW workers, then they could get paid for not coming to work.
After years of hearing liberals say that they "support the troops" but not the war, I think it is only fair to use the same logic with car companies. From now on, I support the workers but not the union.
AverageVoter 3 years ago
This is an example of why we need to bailout the common people not brokerage and auto manufacturer CEO's. If Congress gave each USA citizen over 18 years old $250,000 it would SAVE money! This would help these workers and the rest of us. We'd pay our bills, buy cars and lots of other stuff - crisis over. Instead of trickle-down economics that help those already rich, it's time for some evaporation.
mabellyne 3 years ago
They cut taxes on the top 5% & then it was supposed to "trickle down".
How's that working?
DillonX 3 years ago
It does not work. We should tax the top 5% by a 10 to 20% increase and cut taxes to the working class, or have a flat 15 to 20% income tax with no tax right offs. But I say tax the rich for the next 20 or 30 years because they have been cutting their taxes since Reagan took power.
M3minusGrowth 3 years ago
House/feed/clothe everyone who needs it, no questions asked. Refuse to hurt anyone. Destroy all weapons of mass destruction. Spread this message. John Lennon was in communication with this old intelligence, see his song mind games on my channel favorites. This is not bullshit.
LoveIsTheAnswer26 3 years ago
This may sound crazy, but after making a connection, under certain mind altering molecules placed on our Earth, with the oldest evolved intelligence in the universe, I understood, a little, that LOVE REALLY IS THE ANSWER! We have to enlighten this planet before we can become part of the community of the universe, or we will be destroyed.
LoveIsTheAnswer26 3 years ago
This recession is totally man made.
Cut capital gains taxes to 10%
Cut corporate taxes to 15%
Recession over.
Next.
Truthpolice9698 3 years ago
file chapter 11. Lose the union contracts done deal. There is no money left :(
dtaijo174 3 years ago
I question how many of these workers are illegal immigrants and now they want a federal law obeyed. Why should a company start obeying federal laws now?
Chicago is a sanctuary city and if picking and choosing which federal laws to obey is OK for them its OK for the company. If you cry Im profiling well, when you march in the street waving the mexican flag demanding rights for breaking laws in Spanish the questions are obvious.
Hows it feel to be unfairly displaced? You reap what U sow.
tellusmore 3 years ago
I'd have all those workers arrested.And make protesting illegal.
mikhailesmith 3 years ago
YOu people have to realize our system is coming to
an end. It's the symbol of the snake eating it's own tail.
It's over. This is going on around the world. Get another
job, plant some food, simplify your life down to LOVE, Warmth and a bit of food. IF you have that- you have plenty.
Deprogram yourselves quick, reality is changing fast.
astropath2 3 years ago
What you say isn't true. America is the richest society on Earth ever for a reason...the system does work. Things may look bad to you now, but it's because you have enjoyed the security that our system has provided for you over a relatively unevenful period and have not expierienced the World in this sort of turmoil before...but humankind has been to this place and worse many times before and this too shall pass.
NakedLadyMudFlap 3 years ago
I have a solution,
Kill yourselfs!!!
1619symphony 3 years ago
Well it started right after Nov. 4th. Some is just now hitting the news.
sad part, all the unions push for Obama. if anyone thinks he'll do anything about it. They are as carzy as the day they voted for him.
ANGLEBOOT 3 years ago
you arent getting your job back you dumbfucks. quit wasting your life savings and get a new job. then start litigating!!!!!
piracymatters 3 years ago
A bank can't tell a company who to pay and who not to pay...that makes no sense. Maybe the bank can bring legal action to freeze company assets, but then the workers/ union can challenge that legally. The workers can also challenge through state regulations. There are probably bankruptcy proceedings going on and the company and bank are precluded by law from paying anything until those issues are sorted out. The union is apparently smearing the bank..when the bank is actually blameless.
NakedLadyMudFlap 3 years ago
anyways is it really a socialist revolution? Or is it trolling the bourgeoisie IRL for the lulz
chelives3289 3 years ago
Cut the corporate tax rate to 15% and the recession is over.
Truthpolice9698 3 years ago
that is the dumbest thing i have ever read.
cutting corporate taxes is one of the things that put our government in debt. it doesn't help anything, it just bankrupts us. trickle down economics doesn't work, it never has and never will. even Reagen raised taxes on corporations, 11 times to be exact.
sploogersmoof 3 years ago
This is great, now to really set an example that could be followed across the country is there any way you can fire up the factory and start producing again? Show the world that there's no need for the boss to organize production... turn it into an autonomous factory run by worker council. Occupy, Resist, Produce! peace and solidarity.
trabalengua 3 years ago
Did anyone really think the Bush Adm was gonna try to help these people?
The Bush Adm's concern has always been with the top 5%.
DillonX 3 years ago
Way to go! These folks deserve respect and support. Hopefully, other workers who are being screwed out of their pensions, healthcare or wages, will take notice and do the same.
truthvseeker 3 years ago 2
The economic crisis has many factors at play. The Banksters are the recipients, not mainstreet of TARP funds.
Ex: Peter Sherman, NC BOA (He loves throwing his petty weight by banning paying members of IHUB-a popular, corrupt,SEC-pro, trading community. He has(via his hired admin, those members he doesn't agree with).His ass-o-ates, Joel Levitin, Cahill Gordon&Reindel LLP, John OKane, ,John Katz, Panagos Katz, Peter Sherman, BOA America Secur, etc.
They jailed me-songbirds sing from jail.
wonOnbi 3 years ago
These people have no idea why they had to be let go and why the economy is where it's at right now.
One word: Unions. If we want our jobs to stay in the US, then we need to be able to work at the wages we can get, without benefits they don't want to give, etc.
Or, this is how it's done in China.
sumopub 3 years ago
About time we saw some direct action. Keep it up!
tarnopol 3 years ago 2
People do care about what's happening here. And people are doing things that you can't even see. This situation is not going unnoticed. So Republic Windows is helping people see the light!! How ironic is that? :)
Hang in there.
gingerpyle24 3 years ago
Hoobler99: Amen to that. The only problem is stuff like this has been going on for years. Execs cutting health care, pentions, shift pay and the list goes on. But the bastards never take a cut themselves when they do a poor job. They give themselves bonuses for poor results while the people on the bottom suffer. WAKE UP FOLKS
rebo550 3 years ago 2
I wish these people the best, as its just another reason for the rich to fuck over the poor. The way I see it, stuff like this needs to happen as a wake up call as to whats REALLY going down in America...and maybe more of this will happen.
Hoobler99 3 years ago 3
More laid off workers will be pissed.
Let's be honest...the "trickle down" was a bunch of crap sold to the middle class...it ain't happening!
DillonX 3 years ago
Until it comes to the bailout. Then everyone believes in trickle down.
stratvic 3 years ago
And by everyone, you mean the minority who controls the state and economy. Of course they'll back "trickle down" (its income redistribution from the bottom to the top) until its no longer feasible (which is quickly becoming the case), or worker resistance becomes such, that such policies are no longer possible.
IneptTroopr 3 years ago
If the workers did not believe in trickle down there should be riots in the streets because if trickle down theory does not work then this is then the biggest theft of citizen wealth ever witnessed.
Worker resistance to their employers is misguided and amounts to bleeding their own cow. The real enemy is the Fed ... always has been.
Its not that trickle down doesn't work its that government pours money into unproductive holes that other won't invest in, not into productive businesses.
stratvic 3 years ago
I really don't understand the notion of private businesses being more productive and efficient. Efficient at what? Exploiting workers? Concentrating wealth at the top?
Sure its damned efficient at that, but when I refer to efficiency, I'm talking about allowing everyone in a wealthy society to live a dignified life, without having to pay an arm an a leg and where one actually has a say in society.
IneptTroopr 3 years ago
Productive and efficient at converting resources and effort into value and benefit for society.
In a market economy you get to have a say to the extent that you participate in the market.
stratvic 3 years ago
Most private businesses don't produce great wealth. What happened here is that the BOA refused to loan this business any more money and the business failed. The owners of this business lost any wealth they had invested in the business and the assets of the business will eventually be sold to satisfy debts including anything owed to the workers. That's the way this works...the economy crashes and people get hurt...owners and workers. There are no bad guys here.
NakedLadyMudFlap 3 years ago
There may be no bad guys but there is a difference. Owners are making an investment risk whereas workers are under contract to get paid a certain amount of money. They run the risk of being fired under the law but shouldn't run the risk of not getting paid as per their contract. Another problem is owners often work for their own companies and they make sure they are getting paid by the company first without doing the same for their workers.
grenavitar 3 years ago
I think that the workers got paid for the hours they worked but feel like they are owed for the 60 day severence that is required by their Union contract. The problem is that the company is defunct and there is no money left to pay them with. If the owners did suck up any funds at the end, then the bankruptcy Judge will deal with that legally. Either way, the owners and investors are taking a huge hit here...everybody loses on this one...the owners most of all
NakedLadyMudFlap 3 years ago
I find it amazing that communism is the only ideology to some people that is like virginity. In that it "never existed" or was instantly "betrayed" by Lenin or the Stalinists or w/e. Im sure the capitalists arent so dogmatic when it comes to things like "pure capitalism" or "state-socialism" or w/e.
chelives3289 3 years ago
there are safe things to measure capitalism cynicsmeltdown first reoccurring economic crisis, unemployment, wage slashes, economic downturn this is not the characteristic of these so called "state capitalist" nations in fact their economies boomed. The adherents to "state capitalism" are sectarian irrelevant demoralizers in the Communist movement who offer no solutions and just criticize and criticize eventually drawing people away from ANYTHING that betters them or gives them hope.
chelives3289 3 years ago
Yeah, because the Stalinist Left who still claims the USSR was a true "workers' state" have soooooo much credibility in the post-91 world.
Get real, the "state capitalist" theory makes much more sense, and has much better credibility than Stalinist "Communism".
IneptTroopr 3 years ago
and here lies the key factor in determining this bunk theory. You are only defining it in the it has more "credibility"? The Cliffite or Left-Communist sects(the ones who adhere to this "theory") are even SMALLER than the Stalinist ones and they are defined solely to the Western industrialized states.
chelives3289 3 years ago
Its not abstract credibility in intellectual circles. Its actually having the ability to argue with regular people about the nature of Stalinism.
Its a lot harder to convince people of your commitment to workers' power (I'm not saying most CP activists aren't), if you claim a regime like Stalin's or Mao's is in any way shape or form a "workers' state", and therefore the goal. I've found that has been one of the biggest obstacles to winning workers and students over to socialism in the West.
IneptTroopr 3 years ago
I think you have it wrong from all the people Ive talked to they dont want to recreate what the Soviet Union or China did. Thats because their conditions were different in Russia or China for one; western nations were not semi-feudal like Russia or China. Lastly, this state capitalist theory doesn't win anyone over, its merely an attempt to preserve the virginity of Marxism and lump people who uphold those past nations in the same category as capitalists in their own nations.
chelives3289 3 years ago
Theres a reason why Marx never defined what "true socialism" was or its economic outlayings; that is because Marx was an economist and political scientist and to "predict" something that did not exist yet is pure foolishness.
chelives3289 3 years ago
Ideas on socialism had been around long before Marx (Marx benefited greatly from the works of Proudhon and Adam Smith, for example). And Bakunin predicted what would happen if state socialism were ever implemented fairly well--slavery for the masses and self-perpetuating dictatorship. Marx made a very compelling critique of capitalism, but his means for changing things were abhorrent.
Pananarchist 3 years ago
Many Marxists seem to make the mistake of confusing socialism with the redistribution of wealth. Socialism isn't about letting a state redistribute resources as it sees fit. It's about reinstating the natural distribution of wealth--letting the people control the resources they use for themselves.
Pananarchist 3 years ago
Well said. Its important that real socialism is defined and defended, nowadays especially with the class struggle going nowhere but up.
IneptTroopr 3 years ago
Unfortunately Marx's class theory does not agree with your statement. He was as wrong about his class theory as he was about socialism re Heyak.
There are only three classes, productive, dependent, and parasitic.
stratvic 3 years ago
But then again, who cares what Marx said? His works don't hold a monopoly on socialist ideas or classifications of people. Anyway, classes are only good for making generalizations to supplement theory or ideology. There are virtually no limits to the ways human beings can be classified. That's not to say all classification is fruitless though, as most human knowledge depends on similar subjective classifications.
Pananarchist 3 years ago
None of that stuff you just said makes any sense at all. You just threw out a bunch of big words to make you sound smart and confuse other people. You are transparent.
chr1zl 3 years ago
My last comment was posted as a reply to stratvic if that clears up any of the confusion. Otherwise, I'm not sure what you expect: 1) This is youtube. 2) Big words let you say more in under 500 characters.
Pananarchist 3 years ago
Still Marxists are correct to assume Marx advocated redistribution of wealth aka Mugabe...we can agree however that wealth redistribution is a mistaken idea provided of course that the wealth is attained justly, but even then it should go to the wronged not the most needy.
stratvic 3 years ago
Proudhon and Bakunin were also conspiratorial elitists. Anyone whose ever read their writings knows that they really didn't give a shit about the masses.
IneptTroopr 3 years ago
I'm not sure that I got "conspiratorial elitists" from reading their works, but who knows? I simply appreciate many of their contributions to political discourse. I can't vouch for them personally.
Pananarchist 3 years ago
Oy "State capitalism" huh? Is it just me or are the Cliffite/Left-Communist adherents of the "state capitalist" myth, really believe what they are saying or do they merely want to trick the capitalists into joining their side. "State capitalist" 'theory' is nothing but a demoralizing element made up from demagogues like Tony Cliff and an array of Left-Communists and Trotskyites. cyncismeltdown what is "true socialism" are capitalists like Ninja Tech "fake capitalists" or "pure capitalists"or wat
chelives3289 3 years ago
I am inspired to see the people of Argentina take back their nation. At least the workers were TRYING to do what they could to form a better society. Those who put that down are probably closet PIGS. All they want is ME-ME-ME. That will get us NOWHERE. We need REAL solutions that takes humanity into account. These workers were not out for themselves, but the good of everyone. They were willing to share. Get off the selfish cynicism. We need a NEW way of doing things! No matter what you call it.
cynicismeltdown 3 years ago
that "business model" had a lot of dominance in Nazi Germany, Italy, Spain, and ironically "market socialist" Yugoslavia. You should check at the number of unemployment or wages slashed when that was implemented.
chelives3289 3 years ago
"There are business models where employees can share in the desision making and get a share of the profits, which is a totally viable plan."
Yeah thats called fascism/corporatism. Look it up.
chelives3289 3 years ago
I'm almost positive that workers had very little materially at stake with any of the fascist regimes (and nice try, Yugoslavia, while a bureaucratic nightmare, was not fascist).
Fascism is a middle class reaction to the working class, so no, generally they don't allow their class enemies to have even the slightest amount of control over the means of production.
IneptTroopr 3 years ago
I never said Yugoslavia was fascist, but its style was a corporatist model. Just like the one Ninja Tech was talking about. Of course the workers dont have any say b/c they dont do any of the real bargaining, its only for show. Depends on what you define as "middle class" if you think reaction as in workers with big union wages then your wrong, if you mean middle class as in the elite who run this country then you are right.
chelives3289 3 years ago
I agree, yeah the workers didn't have control of the means of production at any point in Yugoslavia(much like every other Stalinist country other than Russia for a few years following '17), but in a fascist country, they wouldn't even bother giving lip service to workers' power.
I should have been specific about "middle class", since its a weak term. I was referring mostly to the petty bourgeois professional class as well as the small time capitalists caught between labor and big capital.
IneptTroopr 3 years ago
oh right here we go with the same old "Communism doesn't work" balogne. Seriously you guys lose credibility when it conquered 1/6th of the globe. Burying our heads in the sand? Capitalism is in a crisis and I am acting like I am not in reality? buddy do you realize how many workers lost their jobs just THIS year; with economists saying its goign to get worse?
chelives3289 3 years ago
Total commie talk huh? considering Communists are the only people today that are fighting with the utmost enthusiasm for the rights of workers I cant say im offended.
"No if you want to be in chage, then START YOUR OWN COMPANY! You don't have the right to demand a company someone else started. "
Who said we have to follow YOUR rigid capitalist morality on right and wrong? workers and managers are as every part of a company if not MORE since they run it than ANYONE else.
chelives3289 3 years ago
Communisim doesn't work period. Sure if everyone was equal and played nice, in the perfect world it should work, but that is not reality, and hiding behind communist ideas is burrying your head in the sand to the truth of reality and holding onto a fairy dream ideology.
There are business models where employees can share in the desision making and get a share of the profits, which is a totally viable plan.
I learned nothing new fromt he video and I do have an open mind. DO YOU?
NinjaTech001 3 years ago
Ninja, what do you consider "communism"? Because communism has NEVER existed in all of history. Russia and China became State Capitalism. They never got beyond even the beginnings of true socialism. All that aside, these workers in Argentina were not adopting any of those Marxist philosophies. They were simply trying to get the means of production back into their hands and to try a new model of production. Why put them down with totally false labels? You are very ignorant about history.
cynicismeltdown 3 years ago
Found it. Yah. Naomi Klein is cool. Great film. Thanks, bro.
cynicismeltdown 3 years ago
Sounds great. I'll search YouTube and Google. Thanks!
cynicismeltdown 3 years ago
Workers need to take over all the companies in this country! And they will... just watch.
cynicismeltdown 3 years ago
LOL This is total commie talk. So how will the workers being in charge be any different or make it better? There is a Who song that kind of illustrates that point. No if you want to be in chage, then START YOUR OWN COMPANY! You don't have the right to demand a company someone else started.
NinjaTech001 3 years ago
Watch the movie and LEARN. Your questions will be answered. That is if you are open minded. Are you a commie mommy? Let's get real. Quit throwing rhetoric around! Don't you care about the future?
cynicismeltdown 3 years ago
Ninja, when you say "START YOUR OWN COMPANY", you imply OWNERSHIP. Who the hell has the "right" to "own" anything? If the workers took control of the factory, then they "own" it just as much as some military coup would give some multinational company the "ownership" of anything. Nobody "owns" anything. If the workers control the factory, then they "own" it. Can you handle that "philosophy"? If they fuck it up, then they lose it, but, until then, they "own" it, see? The people will be the judge!
cynicismeltdown 3 years ago
chelives, I don't even care about all that argument. I am a populist. I like to see the struggle of people coming together to fight for justice and a social system that is born out of that struggle. Some call that anarchy, others call it communism. I don't know what the hell to call it, but, I have to say, I like it. Long live the struggle for humane systems. The struggle never ends.
cynicismeltdown 3 years ago
Dialectical materialism would reveal that China and the Soviet Union were/are State Capitalist. I guess I'd rather take the anarchist model of collectivism. I'm not discounting any movement in the overall struggle, but, I'm not going to get religious about it. It gives me a headache. I'd rather dance and drink in the streets with the people who are CREATING the fucking struggle! To hell with the politburo! LOL! ;-)
cynicismeltdown 3 years ago
GOP SCUM!
GOPSpinMachineInOD 3 years ago
It's now up to 8.7 trillion dollars earmarked for bailouts!
cynicismeltdown 3 years ago
Interesting.
utubesucks2003 3 years ago
Guys the best strategy to save this country is to blindly hand the big corporations and to the banks that created this mess. It's not the banks fault that they investing in risky companies knowingly, or gave out sub-prime mortgages to people who obviously couldn't pay them. 700 billions dollars isn't a bid deal. Everyones just gotta chill the fuck out. Bush is doing a great job in 8 years. It's good we re-elected him.
youdontknowme90 3 years ago
whooo glad that was sarcasm :)
chelives3289 3 years ago
and let's hand out the bailout money so fast that our Treasury Department can't account for where it's going, that's real sound strategy
Desarollo 3 years ago
Fuck Bank of America!!!!
camcan004 3 years ago
Check out a story about a similar situation on wikipedia: "FaSinPat, formerly known as Zanon, is a worker-controlled ceramic tile factory in the southern Argentine province of Neuquén, and one of the most prominent in the recovered factory movement of Argentina. The name is short for Fábrica Sin Patrones, which means "Factory Without Bosses" in Spanish."
The workers also started by taking it over in bankruptcy. After they began to run it at a profit.
peterfdrucker 3 years ago
I mentioned it earlier, but the documentary "The Take" covers a lot of information about the worker-controlled factories in Argentina. Search google for "The.Take.2004.avi with English subtitles" if you haven't seen it. There are some clips on youtube as well.
Pananarchist 3 years ago
Hey Pananarchist, thanks for mentioning "The Take." I think it's worth mentioning in this context, because the people in that documentary were facing an almost identical situation. Country's financial system tanks; factory goes bankrupt and tries to short the workers to pay other creditors; workers occupy the factory, and eventually use bankruptcy law to take it over lawfully.
Folks who haven't seen this should check it out for positive & workable solutions to what the RW&D staff are facing.
peterfdrucker 3 years ago 2
i am amazed though how everyone thinks the workers are the bad guys and not the blood sucking Bank of America.
chelives3289 3 years ago 2
thanks for writing this, it's been so disappointing to see hateful comments about workers. These people ought to be supported.
peterfdrucker 3 years ago
There is actually only 2 or 3 guys who are posting repeatly and your Marxist ass...
Orlan54 3 years ago
ouch 5 watt bulb?! consider yourself purged from my xmas card list! lol why should i care what some guy from Turkey thinks about me? Ill give you this you at least havent taken my flame bait.
chelives3289 3 years ago
@ theVAGINAtheist
Lame Comment of the day -.-
Dopsni 3 years ago
The lady with the yellow scarf is hot.
theVAGINAtheist 3 years ago
Anyone who doesn't support these people who are just asking for money that theyve worked for are a bunch of fascist scum. Bank of America got its 25 billion dollars and they cant pay 200 workers 1 million in money they actually worked for?
chelives3289 3 years ago
If the company went bankrupt they don't owe the workers anything. The only thing this demonstration does is bring national attention.
PhuckHue2 3 years ago
More workers should follow their lead. People of Chicago, go down there and support these people, feed them, help them out. Right on UE!
myroncope 3 years ago 2
myroncope wrote: "More workers should follow their lead. People of Chicago, go down there and support these people, feed them, help them out. Right on UE!"
Thank you for an intelligent statement! I'm appalled at the lack of basic human decency with some of these posts. I guess these folks were beaten by their parents and never shown any love, so they don't know what it even feels like to have love in their hearts for their fellow humans and the basic struggle to survive. Thanks for your post!
cynicismeltdown 3 years ago
the government this the government that it's your fault that YOU lost your job because congress gave them your money and YOU elect everyone in congress i am happy that you can't feed your kids
aquafishsoup 3 years ago
America...the New Banana Republic-----Barackzeebub and the Clintonistas will give every one everything they want. Barackzeebub cant even wait til January to start his Robin Hood Policies.
MOHAMBONE 3 years ago
are you kidding me "Robin Hood"? Obama and McCain voted to give 700 Billion Dollars to the RICH, and hes going back on his word in regards to "95% tax cut". Obama is a scum bag.
chelives3289 3 years ago
chelives3289-----> Why don't you go to Florida and tell your Comrades of the wonders of Marxism? I bet you wouldn't last very long :D Vladimir Lenin should be your tag.
MOHAMBONE 3 years ago
chelives3289-----> Why don't you go to Florida and tell your Comrades of the wonders of Marxism? I bet you wouldn't last very long :D Vladimir Lenin should be your tag.
MOHAMBONE 3 years ago 2
I actually have; and if you are trying to talk of the exile cuban pigs in Miami I could care less; they are all a bunch of terrorist scum who supported the butchering of my homeland by lending moral support to the contras.
chelives3289 3 years ago
The workers should just start working again. Worker-managed factories are more efficient and better for workers anyway. I wonder what the government would do to stop them?
Search "The.Take.2004.avi with English subtitles" on google if you're skeptical.
Pananarchist 3 years ago
Che Guevara remains a hated figure amongst many in the Cuban exile community, who view him with animosity as "The Butcher of La Cabaña.
MOHAMBONE 3 years ago
I could care less what a bunch of cuban crypto-fascists think. Butcher of La Cabana eh? How can one be a "butcher" of people who had trials and were butchers themselves.
chelives3289 3 years ago
The Butcher of La Cabaña (e.g.Che Guevara), Castro ect...good riddance to Human Debris.
Obama is a Joke, he drinks the Che tea as well.
MOHAMBONE 3 years ago
I think it's kind of funny how all of these workers get illegally hosed by their employers, and people are actually trying to make them look like the "bad guys." You're right, they should just got get another job. Too bad 40% of all factory jobs in America have already been shipped overseas so companies can make a quick buck, I mean, stay competitive. Oh well, tough luck I guess, move to India and stop complaining, right? Get real.
corbini157 3 years ago 2
Muthafucka, I'm a fuckin' music producer and a DJ. I mnake more money than you make in a year. Shut the fuck up
lildwayne21 3 years ago
What these workers are doing is expressing the very essence of what it is to be a citizen of the USA. They worked hard, paid their taxes and held their faith in the political system. When this system failed them, they took action. Their actions should be an example to all of us. It is time for the all working class Americans to stand up and take back what belongs to them. The ideology of the rich has failed. We live in a new era, and we will demand a new, New Deal.
riverbilly224 3 years ago
If you havent noticed jackass there are no jobs; just what those workers are protesting along with Bank of America not giving them their money that they worked for. For a Republican you people sure as hell show your true colors and who you really whore for. Your candidate John McCain and Sarah palin ran on representing "hard working americans" and "working class" and played that they were "anti-elitist" yeah right!
chelives3289 3 years ago
Most of these so-called workers are actually illegal aliens. Call in the National Guard to bust some fucking skulls.
patsagainstrats 3 years ago