So what evidence exists that there has been an apostasy? The early Christian fathers always confronted people that accused the Church of having fallen away. They consistently wrote against it and defended the Tradition of the Apostles. These are early writings that have been consistent throughout the centuries. Why should Mormonism be regarded as any differently?
Further, since Mormonism started in the 1800s, during this apostasy, everyone went to hell?
@Reazzurro90 The problem was these "early Christian fathers" that you speak of. They were the results of the Apostasy. In the NT, Christ clearly conferred power and ordained his Apostles to lead the Church after He died. Show me where that same thing took place after the 12 Apostles died. Even in the life of the Apostles there was apostasy all about.
The Reformation is another wonderful example of people realizing this.
Correction: Joseph had a six-shot, pepperbox pistol. When Hyrum was murdered by the attackers, Joseph fired at the mobbers to protect his friends and himself. Only three of the rounds discharged, hitting three men. However, none of the men died from the wounds......See more at fairlds.org.....
Joseph & his brother Hyrum were prisoners in the Carthage jail when 200 armed men attacked, murdering both of them & wounding John Taylor. Only after Hyrum was killed did Joseph fire a six-shot pistol in defense of John Taylor, Willard Richards, & himself.
Four men, with 2 pistols, against 200 armed men is called self-defense, not "a gunfight."
@TheTwoSense you're wrong and right at the same time, you're wrong, because he was a prophet of God, and you are right, because he's not Christ, and Joseph Smith never claimed to be Christ, nor does the LDS church claim him to be Christ.
you quote the old testament but you missed the part where it gives a clear outline to determine who was a prophet and who was a false prophet. Joseph smith gave prophesies that he gave clear timelines for that never came to be. FALSE PROPHET. Its pretty clear cut
I am not worried that the Prophet Joseph Smith gave a number of versions of the first vision anymore than I am worried that there are four different writers of the gospels in the New Testament, each with his own perceptions, each telling the events to meet his own purpose for writing at the time.
The difference here is that the writers of the New Testament Gospels were four different people, while Joseph Smith is one person. If he was given divine revelation to write down the book verbatim, then presumably it shouldn't have been that difficult to do so again once the missing pages were gone.
@Reazzurro90 You better think before you type. There were way more than just 4 writers in the Old Testament. 2nd, he didn't get revelation for the book, he translated it. The D&C was revealed, not the BOM. 3rd, read your history. The original manuscript was stolen and altered so if Joseph would have translated the exact same thing, then the thieves would claim he was a fake by not presenting the same thing. It's all there, buddy.
You said "Prophets are called of God" I would agree. But today the Prophets of the LDS church are appointed by man through vote. In the the bible men had no part in the chosing of Gods Prophets ..Prophets were revealed through their teachings and errorless prophesies. can you explain this dramtic change in the way God has chosen to carry out his will?
"..God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. " Matt 11:13
"For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John, and if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come." John the baptist was the last of a long history of OT prophets that looked forward to the coming of Christ.
The prophet is not appointed by man. It has always been the eldest apostle. And through revelation it is revealed to the Quorum of the Twelve who that should be and it is accepted unanimously. Unlike some other churches that go my majority vote.
the prophet is not appointed by man?, then you say he is elected because hes eldest? Where in the bible does God "elect" any one who is "eldest" to a prophet? don't tell me moses because him being chosen had nothing to do with his age. did you just contradict your very own response? lol. If someone is elected by Twelve "peoples" then your prophet is elected by men. lol
I said "eldest" not oldest. Whomever has served in the Quorum for the longest is the Eldest Apostle. From my recollection, none of that is in the Bible. But that's the point. Not all of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is found therein. That's why there was a Restoration.
You're right, Elijah didn't tell Elisha that he was to be the next prophet. Elijah had no revelation to know such things. Obviously apostasy started long ago.
Come on buddy. The real question you need to ask is, " Was Joseph Smith a prophet of God?" If you can answer that, then you will know what the revelation that he received on who will be the next prophet is true.
Btw nice way to sugar coat what God allegedly told Joseph Smith
"I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt"
Other religions are an abomination in his sight? And you guys claim that you respect other peoples religious beliefs. lol, what a joke.
You taught the same things on your mission, and therefore, all you can do is humbly walk away. To say what you said with any credibility is impossible now. So don't say it. You can leave the church, but can't leave it alone, is a true statement. It happens all the time for those who lost their way.
The statement was their CREEDS were an abomination in his sight, not that other religions are an abomination in his sight. I would think that YOU would have known this.
Grow up mormonanswerman and stop using old and tired cliches used by old, rich white men who claim to be apostles of God. I can honestly tell you that I have found true happiness after leaving the confines of the Mormon religion and I know that others such as yourself can find this too. That is why we do what we do. Yes it may get contentious at times but as Christ said we must earnestly contend for the faith. Sure it bugs you true believer mormons but if only one person is saved, its worth it.
Thanks Chris for your videos on YouTube. Keep sharing your testimony of our Savior, Jesus Christ and His restored Church, His Prophet, Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. God bless you in your worthy work.
it says in detueronemy (spelling) in the bible that if a so called prophet spoke on behalf of god and the thing did not come to pass then he is a false prophet.
joey had alot of false prophercies and yes he spoke in gods name...so therefore he is a false prophert - do u agree? note* it only takes 1 false prophercy to be a false prophert*
..i can see why mormons pick n choose what scriptures they like best from the bible and disregard others - makes sense right?
Actually, it doesn't make sense. We don't pick and choose our scriptures. We accept all of them into our canon. Revelation 19:10 tells us that anyone can speak with the spirit of prophecy if they do it in the testimony of Jesus.
And just because something hasn't come true YET, doesn't mean it won't. Christ Himself said He would come to earth a Second Time. He hasn't yet. According to you, that would make Christ a false prophet. Which He's not.
8. Lastly, Joseph Smith was not a martyr. He was in Jail for illegally destroying a printing press that criticized him, freedom of press? He died in a gun battle after he shot two men, like a lamb to the slaughter?
Every good thing you can say about Joseph Smith I can say something equally damaging to his character. You would be correct and so would I because he did some great things and some unsavory things as. You can give me your word he was a prophet and I'll give you mine that he wasn't.
He was a martyr. He died for his beliefs. That's why people came to kill him. Do you really think they were super pissed off at him because he destroyed a press?
I have blocked you because you have abused this forum. It is meant for discussion and those that want to learn more. It is not for those who want to prove me wrong and have an agenda. And if you ever comment on another video again, message someone. Don't have 8 entries. Please obey the commenting etiquette set forth by YouTube.
7. Yet again near the end of the video you rail against other Churches not having the whole truth. Could it be that God wants to see what we will do with the truth we have? Maybe he'll judge us by our hearts and not which church we belonged to. Also, why didnt you include the part where God tells Joseph that the other churches are "an abomination"?
Perhaps you wonder why people pick on your religion. Look at the foundations of Mormonism and what you're saying. It's and affront to Christianity
We say all churches have truth, but it's just ours that has all of it. Those of you that have some truth in your hearts should act on it. Do what you can to find more truth. Follow that Light of Christ within you.
He will judge us on the desires of our hearts. But did you desire to follow Christ into His Church?
6. Josephs story about his family being of different faiths is interesting. I don't doubt that he didn't know which church to join so he thought, why not just start my own? This would not seem out of character of a lad who was a money digger (gold plates) and who was known to spin great tales about the native Americans. The general belief of his time was that indians were from Israel, so he wrote a book giving people what they wanted. Also, There are several version of Josephs "first vision"
He never started his own church. He never wanted to either.
The only money digging he did was for a job. A guy paid him to dig, so he did. I'd do the same thing if I was getting paid for it. Bet you would too.
Joseph didn't write the Book of Mormon. He translated.
The only different accounts of the First Vision were minute differences that occurred when he told different sources over the course of 15 years. You try to remember everything.
5. I think it's extremely arrogant to cite enlightened men (more so than Joseph) like Martin Luther as "Paving the way" for Joseph Smith's "restoration." Joseph Smith barrowed Heavily from protestant teachings and beliefs. In fact, his Book of Mormon conviently solved the particulars of mid 19th century Christian debate. But I'm sure that just a coincidence.
Men such as Martin Luther were blessed of God, their lives were dedicated to him fully. They didn't seek Power/Wealth/Women like Joseph.
4. Your comments about Baptism are somewhat valid, it has been debated. The requirements of baptism are not set, so we must look at the act with Christ, he is a grown man and in a river, logic dictates age and immersion.
However, the one about the trinity is not valid. Throughout it's history the vast majority of Christians have held to the Belief in One God (which is demanded in the old testament). The idea of Polytheism as Mormons believe has Never been a Christian belief.
Debatable, but that's not the point. I think the overall question you need to ask is, was Joseph Smith a prophet and is Thomas S. Monson his successor? If so, then all they revealed and spoke of is true. If not, then none of this is true.
3. You say you learned through history and the bible that the "true church" was lost. What history is this? I think it must be the LDS slant on Christianities history right? I think you need to study the history of Joseph Smith my friend.
First of all Jesus only mentions a "church" a few time, When he's giving the keys to Peter and PROMISES him that the gates of hell will not prevail against it. What you're saying is that Jesus lied and that hell did prevail.
The history- just look at the Nicean Creed for a good example on apostasy.
With the prevailing scripture, I look at that in conjunction of faith without works is dead. Say Peter and everyone else apostatized, would Christ continue to let Peter rule the Church? Nope.
It was later revealed: And if you do these last commandments of mine, which I have given you, the gates of hell shall not prevail against you.
2. I used to be LDS and even though you say it's the Church of Jesus Christ I would argue that Joseph Smith is Almost as important to LDS people. One of the reasons I left Mormonism is because of such and emphasis on Joseph Smith. He is talked about, taught about, sung about, painted, praised, and virtually worshiped. even your video is a tribute to Joseph Smith.
Sure it may be a tribute, but like I said, we don't worship him. He is a man. He did much, but he's not god. Look at my PREVIOUS video, and you'll see all about Jesus Christ.
If you don't mind I'd like to critique your video, perhaps giving a counter point.
1. I noticed your references about prophets were all with the old testament. After Jesus and his mission he called apostles. and prophets as they are known in the old testament and in your religion ceased to exist. Christians believe that people can have the gift of Prophecy, personal and otherwise but generally do not believe in a "prophet" at the head of a religion or church. In fact they see that as a cult.
Where did Christ say there would be no more prophets? I only see references to which He will only continue to call prophets. Ephesians 2:20 being one of them.
" I boast that no man did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from him, but the latter-Day Saints never ran away from me yet. JOSEPH SMITH
Smith would have run away from Jesus too and so would I consdering what was going to happen to him and could happen to me. However, unlike Joseph Smith I wouldn't dare mock Christ or his followers.
Believing in The Bible(or anything else) "as far as it is correctly translated" is a very sensible policy.The same test has been applied to Joseph Smith's "Book of Abraham." Even today many Mormons are not aware of this or the results.
please don´t get me wrong..but i myself am always struggling finding out who does lies and who doesn´t. At the end what really matters is your Faith in God and Jesus Christ.
And about the Bible...once you study it you really don´t need other books. And once you understand what Jesus said you don´t need the Mosaic Law either.
It is way to hard to love everyone as He wants us to.
The more we strive to avoid suffering the more away we move from beeing Christ like(if that is what we want to).
It is absolutely clear ( to me )that Jesus is the light of the world the beginning and the end.
Agreed that it is hard, but it's what we gotta do. And that's one reason why the Book of Mormon is so precious. It helps us better understand God's word and Christ's counsel. It's like studying chemistry in a way. Why just have one book? A second could help you understand better.
And besides, if God wants another book, should we disallow that? Either God has spoken again and this is His book, or it's not. Simple as that.
STAY STRONG!! the harvest is plenty but the workers r few, I'm not mormon but I have listen to ur guys testimony and it is very incouraging 2 me and I don't belong 2 any church or profess 2 any specific faith, my faith is sacred 2 me & I keep it that way, i find it better that way personally though my experiences, do me a favor and don't ever convert 2 another faith, what's done is done, u can find God if ur a athiest or jew or whatever if u truly want 2!
Joseph Smith was suposed to restore the churh to its original form (so many others tried too). Did he? and what about Mormons today? I believe that all churches went astray.
What other people, like Martin Luther, did wasn't a restoration of truth, but rather a reformation. What they did was important and needed to happen in order for Joseph Smith to complete the restoration. They were all good people, but not prophets. Even Martin Luther himself said so. Unfortunately his followers missed that point and set up a church anyway.
All churches after Christ's death went astray. The apostles were persecuted, and truth went wrong. This was called an apostasy.
An apostasy is a time where Christ's true and pure gospel, along with all of its leaders and principles necessary for salvation, are taken from the earth because of disobedience. The true form of Christ's Church was changed by man to suit their needs after Christ's death. That is why a Restoration was needed.
I don't understand why mormons don't use the joseph smith translation of the bible. and why they disregard some of their prophets teachings, like brigham young and the adam-god doctrine.
The JST is used. It's all there, intertwined with the King James Version. Look up adam-god at "en fairmormon org" (disregard the spaces and add periods)
Please comment on the South Park video about Mormons.
Do you really believe that the Garden of Eden is in Missouri? That Native Americans are decedants of Jews (despite DNA evidence to the contrary)? What about about the whole Lucy Harris thing and how she basically proved that Joseph Smith was making stuff up?
Curious: When you missionaries travel to Latin America or talk to Black people, do you omit the whole thing about them be descendants of everyone evil in the Bible/Book of Mormon?
If I believe that Joseph was a prophet, I believe that what he taught was true too. It stems from that. So yes, the Garden was in MO. SOME of the native americans are jewish decent. Not all. We never said that. Only some were. They came originally in 400 BC. That gives life plenty of time to change as more people come from other places and mate with them.
It isn't taught in every lesson. It's not a doctrine they need to teach. If they have questions though, they'll answer them.
Joseph Smith seems to be a "Do as I say, don't do as I do". What did he do besides his revelations and the book of Mormon? He was not a saint. Most revelations were wrong.
Where do you get, "Do as I say, don't do as I do"?
He was a city planner, store owner, military leader, orator, father, husband, friend, architect, and much more.
Never said he was a saint. That's a catholic thing, not mormon.
What revelations were wrong? As far as I know, they are all correct.
He wasn't better than Jesus. "Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it."
Well he was condemned for "money-digging"; he drank wine; he lied to his wife for a while about his multiple wives and some more.
He was all that. Just as so many other great men.
For me, Zion was a bunch of wrong revelations. The one to open a bank in Nauvoo; the other one about Apostle Patten...
Ive read his quote before. Once he said he had done more than anyone, including Jesus (Brodie p 374, HC 6:408-412). But what I mean is, have you seen his latest anniversary celebrations?
He worked for a guy when he was a kid, who wanted to dig for treasure. Heaven forbid your make some money in your spare time.
He drank wine before it was revealed to be forbidden by God.
He never lied to his wife. Common mistake. God told him to practice it in 1831, and it wasn't until 10 years later that he practiced it. Part of the rule was to get the permission of the wife before you practiced polygamy. Period.
I could argue otherwise and you would argue some more, but I really don't care that much about these. I'll only leave you this: in RLDS there was no polygamy.
But Abraham was a polygamist. So were many other prophets from the OT. And it was taught to them, and to those in our religion, that you were to only practice it when the Lord commands you to.
Anyway, this video isn't about polygamy, but rather my testimony that Joseph Smith was a prophet.
Actually, he wanted to practice it. His wife said "no." Not knowing what to do, he had a "revelation" that polygamy was allowed. So then his wife couldn't argue, but historical evidence shows that she did not approve of it.
Also, how is it that later God changes His mind and decided polygamy was NOT okay. According to Mormons, God said polygamy was wrong, right, and then wrong again.
Correct. Emma didn't approve at first, but she eventually did in the end. Just took some time.
You'll have to ask God that one. It's His church and His religion. He must know more than us as to why He changes things. A good place to start is in the Doctrine and Covenants at the back under the Official Declaration 1.
JSmith is treated like Jesuss mother Mary by the catholic church (a bit too much, some might agree). Its difficult for me to picture him as particularly special but for the book of mormon.
Zion and KSS look to me like failed projects. And I guess you can say that the Patten affair wasnt a prophecy. Well, it gets hard to tell whats a prophecy this days.
Some feel like we worship him, but we don't. Jesus is the head of our Church. If we worshipped Joseph, the Church would be named after him. We pray to Christ and He is our savior. We don't worship Joseph, we just are grateful for him. He restored the principles for us to know more about Jesus and His Atonement. So we are grateful he did those things.
John the Revelator speaks plenty on the spirit of prophecy. I won't expound on it here. You can look yourself.
Yes, I'm actually aware that Joseph isn't worshiped. Still, second only to Christ. When I think of Peter, Moses, Job... Those testimonies are in my book stronger than the one of Joseph. What was new with him?
Actually I have a problem with John the Revelator too. There are too many ways to interpret the Book of Revelation, I don't think it should've made to the canon. But also Isaiah, Ezechiel, Jeremiah, Mathew tell about false prophets and how they deceive the best of us (it's not my point..).
Him being second to Christ as you said means that he revealed more truth than any other person except truth. So he brought more through revelation than any other prophet except Christ.
Some scholars have said that the Book of Revelation is the most correct in the Bible. Meaning that it hasn't changed much through translations through the years. There is a lot of symbolism there, but I think that because people don't understand it, they don't change it.
Ok. But I don't see that many changes in the doctrine before Brigham Young. Only some technical aspects about living prophets, ordinances, temples, ceremonies and what not...
I think you're probably right about the Book of Revelation.
Did Joseph Smith really have Blond hair and Blue eyes? Recent illustrations of him keep getting lighter and lighter. Same with Jesus, was he Caucasian with light blue eyes and blond highlights? That seems a bit odd since he was born in the Middle East.
I'm not sure how Joseph looked. It seems like that's the way he is perceived, but I'm not sure. As for Jesus, he's Jewish from a middle eastern country. He wasn't Arab. So that being said, he's not white, but Mediterranean cultures have light brown skin.
It's another testament. It testifies of Christ. Why do you need 2 textbooks for your class? Because two witnesses only adds to your education. The Bible and Book of Mormon only add to the testimony that Jesus is the Christ.
Joseph Smith didn't teach things the world wanted to hear at that time. He actually taught secret polygamy and hid it from the world. For many years their was total concpiracy fron the leadership to deny and lie about it to church members and the public alike whilst prosletising and making converts.
They even had a cannonised rebuke of polygamy in D&C whilst seretly practising it.
Actually no one wanted to even practice it. Joseph knew he was supposed to do it and he told others that he was supposed to, but no one wanted to. So that rebuke came because they didn't want to do it.
Not sure why you're a mormon, I guess you just want to believe in it, but you should seek God 's truth without any restriction from a Church don't you think? God has more to offer then any Church, and if you don't know that then you don't know God or his true Word!
You make a good point and it may surprise some modern mormons that Joseph Smith felt this same way:
"We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is ANYTHING virtuous, lovely, or of good reprt or praiseworthy we seek after these things."
Hello. I happened to stumble across your video footage and I think you're super knowledgeable about Mormon doctrine. I am not Mormon, but since you've quoted biblical sripture it's imperative that you truly dissect scripture for what it ACTUALLY states. For example in Matt 16 13-19, Jesus clearly states that "...Upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall NOT prevail against it." There was never a so called "Apostasy". So, are you calling Jesus a liar? God Bless.
That "rock" that Christ spoke of is revelation. Many interpret it to mean Peter, but it's not so. So when Christ said He would build His Church on revelation, it is His, so He can take it away as He sees fit. It has happened repeatedly throughout the Old Testament, though not as grand as after the Apostles were killed.
I love this, and yes Joseph Smith had to have loved Jesus Christ especially when you consider he never denied the first vision and seeing God the Father and Jesus Christ even to the sacrificing of his own life. How many could both give their lives and do a fraction of what Joseph did in sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ with those of our day so that we could be more like Jesus and follow the teachings of Jesus Christ to return again to live with God the Father and Jesus Christ.
So what evidence exists that there has been an apostasy? The early Christian fathers always confronted people that accused the Church of having fallen away. They consistently wrote against it and defended the Tradition of the Apostles. These are early writings that have been consistent throughout the centuries. Why should Mormonism be regarded as any differently?
Further, since Mormonism started in the 1800s, during this apostasy, everyone went to hell?
Reazzurro90 8 months ago
@Reazzurro90 The problem was these "early Christian fathers" that you speak of. They were the results of the Apostasy. In the NT, Christ clearly conferred power and ordained his Apostles to lead the Church after He died. Show me where that same thing took place after the 12 Apostles died. Even in the life of the Apostles there was apostasy all about.
The Reformation is another wonderful example of people realizing this.
WhyImMormon 8 months ago
Also Joseph Smith was not a martyr, he died in a gun fight and shot several men before he was kill. You don't even know your own churches history.
Svperstarr 10 months ago
@Svperstarr Guess you need to look at it closer too. He had a single shot pistol that never fired. Can't argue with ballistics, dude.
WhyImMormon 10 months ago
@WhyImMormon
Correction: Joseph had a six-shot, pepperbox pistol. When Hyrum was murdered by the attackers, Joseph fired at the mobbers to protect his friends and himself. Only three of the rounds discharged, hitting three men. However, none of the men died from the wounds......See more at fairlds.org.....
GaryKColeman 5 months ago
@Svperstarr
Joseph & his brother Hyrum were prisoners in the Carthage jail when 200 armed men attacked, murdering both of them & wounding John Taylor. Only after Hyrum was killed did Joseph fire a six-shot pistol in defense of John Taylor, Willard Richards, & himself.
Four men, with 2 pistols, against 200 armed men is called self-defense, not "a gunfight."
GaryKColeman 5 months ago
Joseph Smith was not a prophet and was not Christ like as you claim. I'm going to be posting a video responce to show you.
TheTwoSense 1 year ago 16
@TheTwoSense I never said that he was Christ. But he was a prophet.
WhyImMormon 1 year ago
@TheTwoSense you're wrong and right at the same time, you're wrong, because he was a prophet of God, and you are right, because he's not Christ, and Joseph Smith never claimed to be Christ, nor does the LDS church claim him to be Christ.
michaelgrella 1 year ago
Read the Bible, Deuteronomy Chapter 13 - Joseph Smith's exact story & coming is very clearly prophesied there.
y2ktube 1 year ago
you quote the old testament but you missed the part where it gives a clear outline to determine who was a prophet and who was a false prophet. Joseph smith gave prophesies that he gave clear timelines for that never came to be. FALSE PROPHET. Its pretty clear cut
hplethpavilian 1 year ago
@hplethpavilian It'd be clear cut if he actually made prophecies that never came true, but alas, he didn't.
WhyImMormon 1 year ago
joseph smith went to jail for fraud
he admitted the peeping stones were fake
he edited parts of the book or mormon that were lost
no jews lived in usa 2000 years ago
find a new religion
steptocheese 1 year ago
@steptocheese He went to jail for fraud, but was never convicted for on any of the charges made against him.
The stone weren't fake and he never said so.
He neer edited lost parts. What does that mean anyway?
Of course jews didn't live in the USA 200 years ago cause there was to USA then.
Next time make claims that you can actually back up.
WhyImMormon 1 year ago
J. Smith vision has been changed several times - you should have pointed that out.
TheRedBlueBlues 2 years ago
The accounts were different, but the vision was not.
WhyImMormon 2 years ago
there is a big difference of saying that you saw an angel and having seen God.
TheRedBlueBlues 2 years ago
I am not worried that the Prophet Joseph Smith gave a number of versions of the first vision anymore than I am worried that there are four different writers of the gospels in the New Testament, each with his own perceptions, each telling the events to meet his own purpose for writing at the time.
WhyImMormon 2 years ago
@WhyImMormon
The difference here is that the writers of the New Testament Gospels were four different people, while Joseph Smith is one person. If he was given divine revelation to write down the book verbatim, then presumably it shouldn't have been that difficult to do so again once the missing pages were gone.
Reazzurro90 8 months ago
@Reazzurro90 You better think before you type. There were way more than just 4 writers in the Old Testament. 2nd, he didn't get revelation for the book, he translated it. The D&C was revealed, not the BOM. 3rd, read your history. The original manuscript was stolen and altered so if Joseph would have translated the exact same thing, then the thieves would claim he was a fake by not presenting the same thing. It's all there, buddy.
WhyImMormon 8 months ago
can mormons have beard?
TheRedBlueBlues 2 years ago
ilmesesti.
WhyImMormon 2 years ago
You said "Prophets are called of God" I would agree. But today the Prophets of the LDS church are appointed by man through vote. In the the bible men had no part in the chosing of Gods Prophets ..Prophets were revealed through their teachings and errorless prophesies. can you explain this dramtic change in the way God has chosen to carry out his will?
YoungApologetics 2 years ago
well said!
Jesus through the scriptures fulfilled the prophets of old- so there is no need for prophets any more.
theembracedofgod 2 years ago
Show me that verse. Christ said nothing of the sort. He came to fulfill the law of the prophets. Meaning the Law of Moses. Check out Amos 3:7
WhyImMormon 2 years ago
all righty then, check out Hebrews 1:1-2
"..God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. " Matt 11:13
"For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John, and if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come." John the baptist was the last of a long history of OT prophets that looked forward to the coming of Christ.
theembracedofgod 2 years ago
The prophet is not appointed by man. It has always been the eldest apostle. And through revelation it is revealed to the Quorum of the Twelve who that should be and it is accepted unanimously. Unlike some other churches that go my majority vote.
WhyImMormon 2 years ago
the prophet is not appointed by man?, then you say he is elected because hes eldest? Where in the bible does God "elect" any one who is "eldest" to a prophet? don't tell me moses because him being chosen had nothing to do with his age. did you just contradict your very own response? lol. If someone is elected by Twelve "peoples" then your prophet is elected by men. lol
theembracedofgod 2 years ago
I said "eldest" not oldest. Whomever has served in the Quorum for the longest is the Eldest Apostle. From my recollection, none of that is in the Bible. But that's the point. Not all of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is found therein. That's why there was a Restoration.
WhyImMormon 2 years ago
@WhyImMormon
so would you say that from your understanding the LDS Prophets are appointed in the very same manner as they were in lets say the old testiment?
YoungApologetics 2 years ago
Absolutely. The glories of continuous revelation through God's chosen leader!
WhyImMormon 2 years ago
@WhyImMormon
who was this "chosen leader" in the old testiment. I mean Prophets didn't appoint one another..
YoungApologetics 2 years ago
You're right, Elijah didn't tell Elisha that he was to be the next prophet. Elijah had no revelation to know such things. Obviously apostasy started long ago.
Come on buddy. The real question you need to ask is, " Was Joseph Smith a prophet of God?" If you can answer that, then you will know what the revelation that he received on who will be the next prophet is true.
WhyImMormon 2 years ago
awesome video Chris!
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
I'm an ex-mormon and i feel very sorry for you.
Btw nice way to sugar coat what God allegedly told Joseph Smith
"I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt"
Other religions are an abomination in his sight? And you guys claim that you respect other peoples religious beliefs. lol, what a joke.
sanjayarulz 2 years ago
You taught the same things on your mission, and therefore, all you can do is humbly walk away. To say what you said with any credibility is impossible now. So don't say it. You can leave the church, but can't leave it alone, is a true statement. It happens all the time for those who lost their way.
The statement was their CREEDS were an abomination in his sight, not that other religions are an abomination in his sight. I would think that YOU would have known this.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
Grow up mormonanswerman and stop using old and tired cliches used by old, rich white men who claim to be apostles of God. I can honestly tell you that I have found true happiness after leaving the confines of the Mormon religion and I know that others such as yourself can find this too. That is why we do what we do. Yes it may get contentious at times but as Christ said we must earnestly contend for the faith. Sure it bugs you true believer mormons but if only one person is saved, its worth it.
sanjayarulz 2 years ago
Define "happiness", Sanjaya.
WhyImMormon 2 years ago
Ok, in that case please explain what is considered a non-mormon creed that God allegedly referred to as an abomination?
sanjayarulz 2 years ago
The Trinity IS a creed, and everyone knows that, and that this idea can not be found in the Bible or supported by the Bible. It is a creed.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
same thing right? If you have a creed with your religion then wouldn't also apply to the religion? Any normal child could point that out to you.
theembracedofgod 2 years ago
Bless you brother for your videos..keep the faith...no matter how many enemies throw themselves at the gates...they shall not prevail.
imtherealthing 2 years ago
excellent video
OnlyMORMONsGo2Heaven 2 years ago
hi i'm mormon too. thanks for posting these videos.
Marishka1234 2 years ago
Thanks Chris for your videos on YouTube. Keep sharing your testimony of our Savior, Jesus Christ and His restored Church, His Prophet, Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. God bless you in your worthy work.
1ldschristian 2 years ago
whyimmormon.
it says in detueronemy (spelling) in the bible that if a so called prophet spoke on behalf of god and the thing did not come to pass then he is a false prophet.
joey had alot of false prophercies and yes he spoke in gods name...so therefore he is a false prophert - do u agree? note* it only takes 1 false prophercy to be a false prophert*
..i can see why mormons pick n choose what scriptures they like best from the bible and disregard others - makes sense right?
cezza57 3 years ago 2
Actually, it doesn't make sense. We don't pick and choose our scriptures. We accept all of them into our canon. Revelation 19:10 tells us that anyone can speak with the spirit of prophecy if they do it in the testimony of Jesus.
And just because something hasn't come true YET, doesn't mean it won't. Christ Himself said He would come to earth a Second Time. He hasn't yet. According to you, that would make Christ a false prophet. Which He's not.
WhyImMormon 3 years ago
8. Lastly, Joseph Smith was not a martyr. He was in Jail for illegally destroying a printing press that criticized him, freedom of press? He died in a gun battle after he shot two men, like a lamb to the slaughter?
Every good thing you can say about Joseph Smith I can say something equally damaging to his character. You would be correct and so would I because he did some great things and some unsavory things as. You can give me your word he was a prophet and I'll give you mine that he wasn't.
Kilgour88 3 years ago
you have very good points my friend.
its a shame mormons turn a blind eye to the truth
cezza57 3 years ago
He was a martyr. He died for his beliefs. That's why people came to kill him. Do you really think they were super pissed off at him because he destroyed a press?
I have blocked you because you have abused this forum. It is meant for discussion and those that want to learn more. It is not for those who want to prove me wrong and have an agenda. And if you ever comment on another video again, message someone. Don't have 8 entries. Please obey the commenting etiquette set forth by YouTube.
WhyImMormon 3 years ago
7. Yet again near the end of the video you rail against other Churches not having the whole truth. Could it be that God wants to see what we will do with the truth we have? Maybe he'll judge us by our hearts and not which church we belonged to. Also, why didnt you include the part where God tells Joseph that the other churches are "an abomination"?
Perhaps you wonder why people pick on your religion. Look at the foundations of Mormonism and what you're saying. It's and affront to Christianity
Kilgour88 3 years ago
We say all churches have truth, but it's just ours that has all of it. Those of you that have some truth in your hearts should act on it. Do what you can to find more truth. Follow that Light of Christ within you.
He will judge us on the desires of our hearts. But did you desire to follow Christ into His Church?
WhyImMormon 3 years ago
6. Josephs story about his family being of different faiths is interesting. I don't doubt that he didn't know which church to join so he thought, why not just start my own? This would not seem out of character of a lad who was a money digger (gold plates) and who was known to spin great tales about the native Americans. The general belief of his time was that indians were from Israel, so he wrote a book giving people what they wanted. Also, There are several version of Josephs "first vision"
Kilgour88 3 years ago
He never started his own church. He never wanted to either.
The only money digging he did was for a job. A guy paid him to dig, so he did. I'd do the same thing if I was getting paid for it. Bet you would too.
Joseph didn't write the Book of Mormon. He translated.
The only different accounts of the First Vision were minute differences that occurred when he told different sources over the course of 15 years. You try to remember everything.
WhyImMormon 3 years ago
5. I think it's extremely arrogant to cite enlightened men (more so than Joseph) like Martin Luther as "Paving the way" for Joseph Smith's "restoration." Joseph Smith barrowed Heavily from protestant teachings and beliefs. In fact, his Book of Mormon conviently solved the particulars of mid 19th century Christian debate. But I'm sure that just a coincidence.
Men such as Martin Luther were blessed of God, their lives were dedicated to him fully. They didn't seek Power/Wealth/Women like Joseph.
Kilgour88 3 years ago
The Book of Mormon came forth once the world was in need of it.
Martin Luther was a great man! Never said he wasn't. He just wasn't a prophet. He himself never said he was.
Joseph never sought power, wealth or women!
WhyImMormon 3 years ago
4. Your comments about Baptism are somewhat valid, it has been debated. The requirements of baptism are not set, so we must look at the act with Christ, he is a grown man and in a river, logic dictates age and immersion.
However, the one about the trinity is not valid. Throughout it's history the vast majority of Christians have held to the Belief in One God (which is demanded in the old testament). The idea of Polytheism as Mormons believe has Never been a Christian belief.
Kilgour88 3 years ago
Debatable, but that's not the point. I think the overall question you need to ask is, was Joseph Smith a prophet and is Thomas S. Monson his successor? If so, then all they revealed and spoke of is true. If not, then none of this is true.
WhyImMormon 3 years ago
3. You say you learned through history and the bible that the "true church" was lost. What history is this? I think it must be the LDS slant on Christianities history right? I think you need to study the history of Joseph Smith my friend.
First of all Jesus only mentions a "church" a few time, When he's giving the keys to Peter and PROMISES him that the gates of hell will not prevail against it. What you're saying is that Jesus lied and that hell did prevail.
Kilgour88 3 years ago 2
The history- just look at the Nicean Creed for a good example on apostasy.
With the prevailing scripture, I look at that in conjunction of faith without works is dead. Say Peter and everyone else apostatized, would Christ continue to let Peter rule the Church? Nope.
It was later revealed: And if you do these last commandments of mine, which I have given you, the gates of hell shall not prevail against you.
WhyImMormon 3 years ago
2. I used to be LDS and even though you say it's the Church of Jesus Christ I would argue that Joseph Smith is Almost as important to LDS people. One of the reasons I left Mormonism is because of such and emphasis on Joseph Smith. He is talked about, taught about, sung about, painted, praised, and virtually worshiped. even your video is a tribute to Joseph Smith.
Kilgour88 3 years ago 2
Sure it may be a tribute, but like I said, we don't worship him. He is a man. He did much, but he's not god. Look at my PREVIOUS video, and you'll see all about Jesus Christ.
3 Nephi 27:8-9 and D&C 135:3
WhyImMormon 3 years ago
If you don't mind I'd like to critique your video, perhaps giving a counter point.
1. I noticed your references about prophets were all with the old testament. After Jesus and his mission he called apostles. and prophets as they are known in the old testament and in your religion ceased to exist. Christians believe that people can have the gift of Prophecy, personal and otherwise but generally do not believe in a "prophet" at the head of a religion or church. In fact they see that as a cult.
Kilgour88 3 years ago
Where did Christ say there would be no more prophets? I only see references to which He will only continue to call prophets. Ephesians 2:20 being one of them.
WhyImMormon 3 years ago
" I boast that no man did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from him, but the latter-Day Saints never ran away from me yet. JOSEPH SMITH
hernhillrebel 3 years ago
Yeah, he must have written this early on because most of the founding members/leaders ended up leaving the religion at one point or another.
I feel sad for all the men who Joseph Smith sent on a mission and he secretly married their wives "celestially."
Kilgour88 3 years ago
Smith would have run away from Jesus too and so would I consdering what was going to happen to him and could happen to me. However, unlike Joseph Smith I wouldn't dare mock Christ or his followers.
britishfirstandlast 3 years ago
Believing in The Bible(or anything else) "as far as it is correctly translated" is a very sensible policy.The same test has been applied to Joseph Smith's "Book of Abraham." Even today many Mormons are not aware of this or the results.
hernhillrebel 3 years ago
please don´t get me wrong..but i myself am always struggling finding out who does lies and who doesn´t. At the end what really matters is your Faith in God and Jesus Christ.
Gos bless you!
quiero3ver 3 years ago
Your faith, and how you worship him. James 2:26
WhyImMormon 3 years ago
And about the Bible...once you study it you really don´t need other books. And once you understand what Jesus said you don´t need the Mosaic Law either.
It is way to hard to love everyone as He wants us to.
The more we strive to avoid suffering the more away we move from beeing Christ like(if that is what we want to).
It is absolutely clear ( to me )that Jesus is the light of the world the beginning and the end.
Following him is a different story.
Shalom aleichem!
quiero3ver 3 years ago
Agreed that it is hard, but it's what we gotta do. And that's one reason why the Book of Mormon is so precious. It helps us better understand God's word and Christ's counsel. It's like studying chemistry in a way. Why just have one book? A second could help you understand better.
And besides, if God wants another book, should we disallow that? Either God has spoken again and this is His book, or it's not. Simple as that.
WhyImMormon 3 years ago
STAY STRONG!! the harvest is plenty but the workers r few, I'm not mormon but I have listen to ur guys testimony and it is very incouraging 2 me and I don't belong 2 any church or profess 2 any specific faith, my faith is sacred 2 me & I keep it that way, i find it better that way personally though my experiences, do me a favor and don't ever convert 2 another faith, what's done is done, u can find God if ur a athiest or jew or whatever if u truly want 2!
mysanitysgone 3 years ago
Hi WhyImMormon!
Joseph Smith was suposed to restore the churh to its original form (so many others tried too). Did he? and what about Mormons today? I believe that all churches went astray.
live in grace !
quiero3ver 3 years ago
What other people, like Martin Luther, did wasn't a restoration of truth, but rather a reformation. What they did was important and needed to happen in order for Joseph Smith to complete the restoration. They were all good people, but not prophets. Even Martin Luther himself said so. Unfortunately his followers missed that point and set up a church anyway.
All churches after Christ's death went astray. The apostles were persecuted, and truth went wrong. This was called an apostasy.
WhyImMormon 3 years ago
An apostasy is a time where Christ's true and pure gospel, along with all of its leaders and principles necessary for salvation, are taken from the earth because of disobedience. The true form of Christ's Church was changed by man to suit their needs after Christ's death. That is why a Restoration was needed.
Make sense?
WhyImMormon 3 years ago
I don't understand why mormons don't use the joseph smith translation of the bible. and why they disregard some of their prophets teachings, like brigham young and the adam-god doctrine.
struer22 3 years ago
The JST is used. It's all there, intertwined with the King James Version. Look up adam-god at "en fairmormon org" (disregard the spaces and add periods)
WhyImMormon 3 years ago
Please comment on the South Park video about Mormons.
Do you really believe that the Garden of Eden is in Missouri? That Native Americans are decedants of Jews (despite DNA evidence to the contrary)? What about about the whole Lucy Harris thing and how she basically proved that Joseph Smith was making stuff up?
Curious: When you missionaries travel to Latin America or talk to Black people, do you omit the whole thing about them be descendants of everyone evil in the Bible/Book of Mormon?
PrepeiNaSasPw 3 years ago
What video?
If I believe that Joseph was a prophet, I believe that what he taught was true too. It stems from that. So yes, the Garden was in MO. SOME of the native americans are jewish decent. Not all. We never said that. Only some were. They came originally in 400 BC. That gives life plenty of time to change as more people come from other places and mate with them.
It isn't taught in every lesson. It's not a doctrine they need to teach. If they have questions though, they'll answer them.
WhyImMormon 3 years ago
Joseph Smith seems to be a "Do as I say, don't do as I do". What did he do besides his revelations and the book of Mormon? He was not a saint. Most revelations were wrong.
Why is he depicted as better than Jesus?
edgarrsoares 3 years ago
Where do you get, "Do as I say, don't do as I do"?
He was a city planner, store owner, military leader, orator, father, husband, friend, architect, and much more.
Never said he was a saint. That's a catholic thing, not mormon.
What revelations were wrong? As far as I know, they are all correct.
He wasn't better than Jesus. "Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it."
WhyImMormon 3 years ago
Well he was condemned for "money-digging"; he drank wine; he lied to his wife for a while about his multiple wives and some more.
He was all that. Just as so many other great men.
For me, Zion was a bunch of wrong revelations. The one to open a bank in Nauvoo; the other one about Apostle Patten...
Ive read his quote before. Once he said he had done more than anyone, including Jesus (Brodie p 374, HC 6:408-412). But what I mean is, have you seen his latest anniversary celebrations?
edgarrsoares 3 years ago
He worked for a guy when he was a kid, who wanted to dig for treasure. Heaven forbid your make some money in your spare time.
He drank wine before it was revealed to be forbidden by God.
He never lied to his wife. Common mistake. God told him to practice it in 1831, and it wasn't until 10 years later that he practiced it. Part of the rule was to get the permission of the wife before you practiced polygamy. Period.
WhyImMormon 3 years ago
I could argue otherwise and you would argue some more, but I really don't care that much about these. I'll only leave you this: in RLDS there was no polygamy.
edgarrsoares 3 years ago
I know they didn't.
But Abraham was a polygamist. So were many other prophets from the OT. And it was taught to them, and to those in our religion, that you were to only practice it when the Lord commands you to.
Anyway, this video isn't about polygamy, but rather my testimony that Joseph Smith was a prophet.
WhyImMormon 3 years ago
Actually, he wanted to practice it. His wife said "no." Not knowing what to do, he had a "revelation" that polygamy was allowed. So then his wife couldn't argue, but historical evidence shows that she did not approve of it.
Also, how is it that later God changes His mind and decided polygamy was NOT okay. According to Mormons, God said polygamy was wrong, right, and then wrong again.
PrepeiNaSasPw 3 years ago
Correct. Emma didn't approve at first, but she eventually did in the end. Just took some time.
You'll have to ask God that one. It's His church and His religion. He must know more than us as to why He changes things. A good place to start is in the Doctrine and Covenants at the back under the Official Declaration 1.
WhyImMormon 3 years ago
Why was Zion a wrong revelation? And the Kirtland Safety Society? David Patten? What?
We're not JW's. Sorry we celebrate birthdays.
WhyImMormon 3 years ago
I really dont want to upset you.
JSmith is treated like Jesuss mother Mary by the catholic church (a bit too much, some might agree). Its difficult for me to picture him as particularly special but for the book of mormon.
Zion and KSS look to me like failed projects. And I guess you can say that the Patten affair wasnt a prophecy. Well, it gets hard to tell whats a prophecy this days.
edgarrsoares 3 years ago
Some feel like we worship him, but we don't. Jesus is the head of our Church. If we worshipped Joseph, the Church would be named after him. We pray to Christ and He is our savior. We don't worship Joseph, we just are grateful for him. He restored the principles for us to know more about Jesus and His Atonement. So we are grateful he did those things.
John the Revelator speaks plenty on the spirit of prophecy. I won't expound on it here. You can look yourself.
WhyImMormon 3 years ago
Yes, I'm actually aware that Joseph isn't worshiped. Still, second only to Christ. When I think of Peter, Moses, Job... Those testimonies are in my book stronger than the one of Joseph. What was new with him?
Actually I have a problem with John the Revelator too. There are too many ways to interpret the Book of Revelation, I don't think it should've made to the canon. But also Isaiah, Ezechiel, Jeremiah, Mathew tell about false prophets and how they deceive the best of us (it's not my point..).
edgarrsoares 3 years ago
Him being second to Christ as you said means that he revealed more truth than any other person except truth. So he brought more through revelation than any other prophet except Christ.
Some scholars have said that the Book of Revelation is the most correct in the Bible. Meaning that it hasn't changed much through translations through the years. There is a lot of symbolism there, but I think that because people don't understand it, they don't change it.
WhyImMormon 3 years ago
Ok. But I don't see that many changes in the doctrine before Brigham Young. Only some technical aspects about living prophets, ordinances, temples, ceremonies and what not...
I think you're probably right about the Book of Revelation.
edgarrsoares 3 years ago
Did Joseph Smith really have Blond hair and Blue eyes? Recent illustrations of him keep getting lighter and lighter. Same with Jesus, was he Caucasian with light blue eyes and blond highlights? That seems a bit odd since he was born in the Middle East.
divinegoddessartemis 3 years ago
I'm not sure how Joseph looked. It seems like that's the way he is perceived, but I'm not sure. As for Jesus, he's Jewish from a middle eastern country. He wasn't Arab. So that being said, he's not white, but Mediterranean cultures have light brown skin.
WhyImMormon 3 years ago
Romans 15:19 ".................I have FULLY preached the gospel of Christ" if we have the fully gospel why do we need the book of mormon?????
rioschris 3 years ago
It's another testament. It testifies of Christ. Why do you need 2 textbooks for your class? Because two witnesses only adds to your education. The Bible and Book of Mormon only add to the testimony that Jesus is the Christ.
WhyImMormon 3 years ago
Great testimony - I admire your courage and conviction.
chekmayt 3 years ago
Great testimony! don't worry about the people who are quick to point fingers. You have a beautiful testimony of a simple truth.
DLloydP 3 years ago
Joseph Smith didn't teach things the world wanted to hear at that time. He actually taught secret polygamy and hid it from the world. For many years their was total concpiracy fron the leadership to deny and lie about it to church members and the public alike whilst prosletising and making converts.
They even had a cannonised rebuke of polygamy in D&C whilst seretly practising it.
ElderJoseph 3 years ago
Actually no one wanted to even practice it. Joseph knew he was supposed to do it and he told others that he was supposed to, but no one wanted to. So that rebuke came because they didn't want to do it.
WhyImMormon 3 years ago
You really don't understand the definition of faith, do you?
WhyImMormon 3 years ago
Not sure why you're a mormon, I guess you just want to believe in it, but you should seek God 's truth without any restriction from a Church don't you think? God has more to offer then any Church, and if you don't know that then you don't know God or his true Word!
funnrun 2 years ago
Or I could just gain a testimony that this is Christ's Church. You should try it too.
WhyImMormon 2 years ago
You make a good point and it may surprise some modern mormons that Joseph Smith felt this same way:
"We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is ANYTHING virtuous, lovely, or of good reprt or praiseworthy we seek after these things."
Joseph Smith
lindamattkids 2 years ago
i really felt the spirit. i am lds btw. great movies=)
samilou06 3 years ago
And death truly hasn't conquered the hero!
osmiolos 3 years ago
Hello. I happened to stumble across your video footage and I think you're super knowledgeable about Mormon doctrine. I am not Mormon, but since you've quoted biblical sripture it's imperative that you truly dissect scripture for what it ACTUALLY states. For example in Matt 16 13-19, Jesus clearly states that "...Upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall NOT prevail against it." There was never a so called "Apostasy". So, are you calling Jesus a liar? God Bless.
nezzy1340 3 years ago
That "rock" that Christ spoke of is revelation. Many interpret it to mean Peter, but it's not so. So when Christ said He would build His Church on revelation, it is His, so He can take it away as He sees fit. It has happened repeatedly throughout the Old Testament, though not as grand as after the Apostles were killed.
WhyImMormon 3 years ago
I love this, and yes Joseph Smith had to have loved Jesus Christ especially when you consider he never denied the first vision and seeing God the Father and Jesus Christ even to the sacrificing of his own life. How many could both give their lives and do a fraction of what Joseph did in sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ with those of our day so that we could be more like Jesus and follow the teachings of Jesus Christ to return again to live with God the Father and Jesus Christ.
pangeanet 3 years ago 2
and Joseph Smith truly loved Jesus Christ and knew him well.
A love we can ALL emulate!!
osmiolos 3 years ago