David Starkey on Anne of Cleves - part 2/3

[whyNasra]

omg poor girl!

[firmingitup]

He was mad b/c his breasts were larger than hers.

[monkfan72]

I bet Henry's big breasts and full belly turned many women off. jk, I love Henry Tudor. What a bastard!

[YanPrettyPink]

ironic that the fat diseased old man should stand in judgment

[happybkwrm]

I think part of it was that Anne was another Royal. Henry seemed to like picking out commoners and making them queen.

[Hi22y]

how funny he hated big brest that what now is one of the most common like of many men

[HistoryLover1550]

Love Anne of Cleves!

[HistoryLover1550]

I like how Anne became a friend and mother figure to princesses Mary and Elizabeth.

[belmontsmild]

Just because Anne of Cleves was fuller figured, doesn't mean that the other women are somehow less beautiful. I noticed some of the comments, all fall into this "down play the thin beauty" to "prop up the full" attitude all too common these days. Attraction has a lot to do with smells and styles and other things... Apart from Catherine of Aragon, all his wives were english as was he - and seemingly he did love the english ones best.

[shyfly825]

The woman playing Anne Of Cleves in this documentary is actually pretty...

[diddims]

Anne of Cleves sounds like she had the ideal body for bearing many children (wide-hipped, buxom and voluptuous, womanly) and she could very well have done so, but no...! Henry liked women to look like sylphs (pale, petite, perpetually adolescent) and he likely had defective sperm (proving once more that it was his own fault that he had only two daughters and a son)

[MegaWeike]

wasn't she supposted to be ugly?

[diddims]

@MegaWeike Henry was the only one who thought that Anne was ugly; everyone else thought her perfectly attractive, if not classically beautiful. Henry's aversion to her had more to do with their disastrous first meeting, but furthermore she just wasn't his type.

[MegaWeike]

@diddims

Yes, thank you for bring it up. That is a well known fact. That's why I'm surprised. The society as it is, here we have a piece of documentury on youtube that actually touches the facts. Amazing, even for Strakey.

[RandyAKing]

You would think that since Henry was now "pope" of the Church of England, marriages would be easier for him to annul.

[7QW2KQXQ]

"know her carnally" LOL

aka  "Found Under Carnal Knowledge"

[KungFuWolfB1tch]

She had it the easiest, all she was doing was being herself. She got two palaces, and 2600 a year, whichwas a lot in those days, and servants paid for by the king! She was better off that way.

[luexiana]

a series of queries...hehe

[cupcake101]

He didn't like her because she had big breasts? What a messed up King he was!!!!

[Nachtglanz20]

Too bad they did not have photography that days, portraits painted at that time all seem so unrealistic.... I can't really imagine a human being when seeing pictures... too artificial o.o

btw.. .wasn't that a location they used in Harry Potter at 1.54? :O

[Image4ever]

Yup, I recognize it!! It's Hogwart's court!!!

[NA60469]

The girl who plays her looks just like my cousin.lol

[gpvgpvgpv]

I think anne was a little nieve because she couldn't see what was happening right under her nose!

[Mia646]

She didn't understand Latin the diplomatic language of the day, let alone English - how do you expect her to understand what was going on?

[gpvgpvgpv]

well, i don't mean to be meen but when she married henry she should have started learning right away.

[312827JCK]

I'd like to know if there are any paints of her to see how pretty or ugly she was. I think she wasn't that pretty but Henry wasn't James Bond either.

[Albukhshi]

actually, the Holbein painting might actually be accurate,

there is also another painting, also by a Holbein, said to be of Anne, and it matchches. only diff was that the one we all know was from the front, the other was 3/4 profile.

[DanakatTV]

Different cultures hold diferent standards of beauty. I find it funny how Henry could insult Anne when he was not good looking at all.

Nobody can truly know what she looked like, but I'm willing to bet that Henry exaggerated how much he did not like her looks. Henry seems like a whiner LOL

[Mizvictor07]

HE doesn't like big breasts..interesting Henry

[missdevine09]

He likely didn't like them because he probably had a large set of manboobs himself. LoL.

[faeryquene]

*manboobs*

ROTFLMAO!!!!!

[faeryquene]

LOL!!!

[HonoringDelaram2009]

I think the physique of English and German women, on average, were notably different. What may have been considered beautiful by English and French standards (petite, pale, small breasts) may have been different by German, Russian, or Italian standards

[eyezthruanangel]

because have u seen GERMAN, RUSSIAN AND ITALIAN WOMAN!!! * Shivers*

[Albukhshi]

what's wrong with them?

seriously, I don't know.

[angrypufferfish]

Large breasts were unfashionable at the time. That's why Henry disliked Annes. It's amusing really because the way her appearance and body are described it seems like she could have had numerous children. XD

[fatmaccam]

these are great. thanks a million, miss s!

[seywhat82]

poor anne.... so innocent! also, it seems to me that the description of anne's body sounds like the perfect body to bear him many male heirs.... silly man! :P

[faeryquene]

I had thought the same thing-she could have given the idiot many children both male and female.

[KWalsh554]

Probably not. I think she would be the most likely of all the wives to give him lots of healthy children, but because Henry had fathered so many pregnancies from different women which resulted in stillbirths or miscarriages, and because Queen Elizabeth was really his only healthy child (not counting his illegitimate son who I think lived a long life), the problem probably was not the wives, the problem was probably Henry himself. Bad sperm I guess.

[faeryquene]

I have read in some bios that likely Henry VIII had syphilis or some sexual disease or another which his poor wives caught and the result was the stillbirths, and miscarriages.

[Turefu2]

His son by Bessie Blount lived only 17 years and died from consumption.

[HistoryLover1550]

@Turefu2 "The Tudors" should've kept it that way, yet the series was good regardless.

[Mia646]

Henry's recogmised illigitimate son, Henry Fitzroy died 6 months after the death of Anne Boleyn......

[HistoryLover1550]

@Mia646 He was 17 when he died, in "The Tudors" he was younger and died from the sweatinf sickness. The series would've been more interesting had he lived further, we would've seen Henry's relationship with his "bastard' son.

[starquant]

@seywhat82 its a pity women were so useless. I'm amazed they didn't drown the females at birth.

[sheriwhispers]

It seems as though the KING could do no wrong !

Unbelievable, he is less than noble ...how about he repulsed her !!!!!!!!!!!!

*shakes head * men men is that wot they called themselves

[kathCT]

I have so much admiration for Catherine of Aragon, Anne Boleyn, Anne of Cleves, and Catherine Howard. They were all treated horribly by Henry VIII. I especially admire how Anne curtsied to Catherine Howard. See "David Starkey on Anne of Cleves- part 3/3" for more information.

[QueenieLizzie]

Anne of Cleaves cool.

[mckfrr]

IDK about her but after what happened to Henry's other wives I would be overjoyed to leave him! I think she got off easy.

[DuttyGyal718]

I agree. :-D

[DuttyGyal718]

Dammit Henry!!!

:-P

[wishiwas1d]

well, in those days it was considered most attractive for a woman to have a large wide forehead and a big gap in her front teeth... so...

[Gvanillavodka]

wow....

[severyn1982]

then id be awesome!lol

[Concetta20]

Jerk-face!

[AlexandraLara]

I bet Anne was better looking then fatso!

[KelseyDuke]

she is lovely!!!

[fattybatty1]

and the funny thing is now a day men love love girls with big breast and ass and of a nice darkish complexion oh and he was fat and ugly and  she got lucky cause i think he had syphilises

[princesssakura196]

i kno rite! maybe today she would have been considered a babe and the others would the ugly ones. who knows? but i still think she was the most lovely.

[huntresskrystle]

Before henry bashes Anne for her looks, he must first look at himself at the mirror.

I think Anne of Cleves is lovely.

[Princesspeach2007]

I hate how Anne was blamed when it's Henry's fault he couldn't perform besides he was 46 years old. Lawl you can't really expect him to at that age XD

[shellezzle1]

This is the killer part, he was not attractive either. LMFAO.

[MarieCaseyStevens]

Starkey's ought to be embarrassed. "Still more naively, for Henry."

[heartofsnow23]

it really is so sad, Henry was deff a sexist pig, as i suppose mostly all men were in those days, i can not imagine being so reformed, i would have hit him in the face with his crown and yelled, "Im ugly?? well YOUR FAT! go to,ye olde weight watchers before you insult me....! "

[audie83]

Here here!! :)

[missdevine09]

Rotfl! That'd have been treason!

[Mizvictor07]

Anne's head would have rolled but She would have been my Hero

[Albukhshi]

she's a hero just for surviving Henry VIII.

[Jamestopboy]

oh yeah, even though she never remarried, she was the only one who didn't die, Henry's 6th wife dies a couple of years after henry due to the same thing Jane got

[uniquesongstress]

"go to ye old weight watchers" that was hilarious

[chrisiam1968]

@heartofsnow23 LMAOOOOOOO@your comment...."go to ye olde weight watchers" Priceless!!!



[chinagrrl]

I feel sorry for her! Even though she was the most fortunate ex-wife of Henry VIII, at that moment in time, it must've been really frightening to her, the thought that she may get beheaded like the previous Anne!

[Princesspeach2007]

Not really fortunate, she lost her own family  as a price cause the king didn't like how she looked.

[chinagrrl]

In those days, when Princesses got married and lived with their husbands and husbands' families, I think it was to be expected that the princesses would not be seeing their families much anyway because travel was pretty hard then. I think Anne pretty much expected not to see much of her family anyway. She was fortunate that even though the king did not like her, he didn't try to cut off her head! Instead, he gave her money and houses and thankfully left her alone. She was lucky.

[Princesspeach2007]

That is true

[wirramirra26]

Yes she was possibly the luckiest of all the wives, she did the best out of being married to henry!

[RocktheSocks]

She ended up being a great friend of his, as well as Elizabeth's and Mary's. Hence being stereotyped as the "ugly little sister" figure.

Personally, I think Henry didn't like that he was marrying for state reasons. He was used to getting his way with beauties such as Anne Boleyn and Elizabeth Blount (mistress). Even Catherine of Aragon was handsome for her age. Anne of Cleves was average, and as King of England, Henry would not accept average. He liked marrying for love/lust, not state.

[chinagrrl]

Even though Anne was pretty average, she was smart in her own way. She knew that she was dependent on the King to keep her in a good lifestyle. Of course she would be friendly with the King and the princesses.

You are right, Henry was a romantic. He did prefer to pick his own wives rather than have one pushed into him for a political marriage.

[DuttyGyal718]

yes he was romantic, but beware if he got bored with ya!!

:-P

[elinheartstristin]

@chinagrrl yeah and if he did cut off her head, that would have angered the Germans!!

[slytherinpuddle]

I never understood why people thought Anne was ugly! From her portraits she looks quite pretty to me :)

[XxCrazygal2007xX]

yeah i agree she seems prettier than jane seymour!

[supergirl011]

The artist was so amazed by her dress that he forgot about the details on her face(potmarks).

[XxCrazygal2007xX]

is that what put him off? pock marks? thats no reason to 'go off' someone!!

[BlueMiscellany]

I think they are both pretty in their own ways - they both have nice-shaped faces and flawless complexions.

[XxCrazygal2007xX]

Nah I dont think Jane Seymour was that pretty, the others were I think but there's just something about Jane that makes me think she aint that pretty

[littlemisssunnydale]

Jane was described by the Imperial ambassador Chapuys as being very plain (and Chapuys had every reason to like Jane but he was rather honest in his portrayal of her). She was described as being quiet, lacking wit and not being a beauty. Nevertheless for her lack of talents, she was praised by conservatives as she was sympathetic for their cause. But ironically even they did not call her beautiful.

[littlemisssunnydale]

BTW, no contemporary said that Anne had pock marks on her face. This appears to have been invented years later. The only person who said Anne was particularly ugly was Henry. But no one else at the time was implying that she was not good looking. She probably was pretty in her own way, but unfortunately for her such looks were not Henry's preference.

I do like though how they used a pretty actress in this therefore rejecting the idea that she was truly hideous.

[haroof]

@littlemisssunnydale the truth is no one really knows. all we can go by are these paintings by holbein that may or may not have been biased to gain the king's favor. i'd certainly not trust a single thing chapuys had to say since he had all sorts of agendas.

[angrypufferfish]

Jane Seymour was never repuated to be beautiful. Henry was attracted to her behavior and her pale skin.

[XxCrazygal2007xX]

poor anne, henry viii i hope u suffered a long and painful death!!!

[caleacat]

A fat king who wants someone skinny, ha! What a fussy man. I admire Anne since she saved herself in a smart way. Yeah, Anne good for you!!!