@terps616 Your're trying way too hard to get through to a biased moron. It really comes down to this..what was the Civic SI's Nurburgring time compared to the STI's? Let's see here..I found the STI's 7'55. Wait..where is the SI's? I can't find it!!
@Marshmallowrex Dude calm down its the current car i own lol........ if i could choose i would go buy a 05 subaru legacy GT. Just because you can't afford a car doesn't mean you have to be a troll to other people.
Why does he sound stupid as fuck? Because he drives a BETTER car? Get over yourself & stop trolling videos with Subaru hate. Drive one & you'll know IMMEDIATELY has much better it is than any Si you can drive in stock form. For real. Build for build is what I respect but FWD Hondas are NOT driver's cars in stock form.
I speak ill of Subarus here because the price paid for the 2.0 turbo is a lot they all break the engine and gearbox the civic is so much chep and has the same speed. HONDA
@certinhoVTI if you have ever drove a subaru you would change your mind. I use to be a HONDA Fan but i bought a subaru and now im converted to the turbo. I respect Honda but Subaru is WAY BETTER and SOUNDS BETTER unlike the fart cans most ricers have.
i guess my point is id rather have an AWD turbo vs. a FWD n/a car. my dislike for honda's stem from all the kids that cut off the springs and put on a stupid exhaust and drive around thinking it fast when its slower than most mini-vans. civics need to modded pretty extensively to be on par with a stock wrx let alone an sti.and even then its still FWD and to me thats not an ideal track setup.
U pay $20,000 for a brand new si and it lives up until 250,000 miles and an sti is gonna give you a solid 150,000 miles. So why buy a Honda? it's a decent sports car if you aren't too serious about cars and it's real reliable
20000 for si....still get walk by si lmfao...race an nsx.....stop bitching abt honda.....ohh wait i forgot u cant keep up wit an nsx so u have to race a civic so u can beat them by a fender.....a fender tho....pretty sad...thats y my civic love scooby snacks it taste real good
@ekcoupe756 Nobody cares about ur $2,000 civic. Anybody can modify a car to beat anything. You must be one of those kids that think ur civic is the baddest on the road. Chill out its just a honda that you will sell one day for under 4k LOL. I would own a STi over civic anyday.
@EddV91 yea of course i take the subi and den i sell it cuz its played out....but ok yea subi cost more but still lose by a 2000 dollar car...use logic buddy..just imagine u lose by a civic..wat will happen with an s2000 or nsx....u aint ready..
@ekcoupe756 Obviously you will have to mod ur 2000 dollar car to be an sti. Stock for stock a civic or s2k stands no chance against the subie. The NSX is what you will call a reliable super car which comes at 270BHP while the sti at 276BHP. And what happens when you mod an sti? Btw what makes you think subies are played out? They weren't built for drag. Take em to a track or dirt or snow then youll see how good the sti really is.
Crazy comment, sir. STis are known to keep up with NSXs around a track with ease. Where will your NSX be when the winter comes? Not out in the snow. And S2000s are also eaten on a course by an STi. It happens. Honda doesn't have a sports car that can outdo a 22B STi Version or a Spec C. Stock for stock, there is no comparison. Civics are inferior cars to Imprezas. Now imagine modding them... The Impreza has the advantage.
@DOHCEJ22E1 nsx type r will walk an sit all day...who cares abt snow....i seen a lot of videos of civic walking sti or regular wrx or wateva....if i wanted to race u on snow i would rather drive an evo..subi are played out..i saw all subie that are blue,blk some white...they are plyed out..i rather get a civic that can modd different way and different color that stands out...yea subi are fast but they aint that fast...evo are better in my opinion..but i rather get a civic that subi
No, they won't "walk an STi all day". Put up the NSX Type R against a 22B STi Version or a Spec C & it's getting curb stomped & shitted on, stock for stock. Civics DO NOT stand out more than Subarus & get played on way more. Any Joe Blow with a McDonald's job could have one. DXs are not hard to find at all. Evos can beat STis by the skin of their teeth thanks to YAW electronics. How many stock Civics do you know that can knock off 2 seconds off their 0-60mph factory rated launch?
@DOHCEJ22E1 thats the power of boost!!!! lol if only they made a turbo aplication for the k20 stock in a civic SIR :P running at 5 psi, then we can do what you just said at boost her up to a good 18 psi :P or 20 even.
That's the thing, there is already a boosted K series engine & it's PHENOMINAL (K23A1 in RDX). If THAT were boosted to 20 psi, not only could it take that level of power all day, but then it also produces VERY usable TQ for motorsports applications. Unfortunately, there are reports of that engine being very difficult to swap. Another turbocharged beast would be a K20/24 build.
@DOHCEJ22E1 come on buddy u probably walk civic or nsx or type r or si or wateva like a car or twos or even a fender...but think abt it civic never had turbo stock it only came wit a stock motor and sti comes wit turbo cuz they suck at all motor..so imagine a turbo single cam or wat eva lmfao..they will walk an sti...sti suppose to beat a civic cuz they are "turbo"sooo urbo vs motor...of course it will win...but when u mod a lil engine it does damgage
Subaru engines are different than Honda engines. The older ones don't come with variable valve timing, they're not built for high revs like Hondas & it's very expensive to build them up N/A, so most build them up for boost, which is better since WRC is mostly about using AWD & turbo 4cyls, & that is how the engine & AWD were originally designed.
Now, all motor engines for Subarus are the EG & EZ engines (6cyls) build these up & we're talking 400bhp+ easy along with TQ to match.
@ekcoupe756 Why you talking about the nsx? If anything the NSX is played out because it's so damn exspensive for little power. 30k+ for a NSX 20k for an STi/EVO of course depending on miles. And just how are subies played out? They are WRC legends not cars built for drag, but then again tune one of them motherfuckers and they will be bad fast. So stick to you're little $2,000 civic. Maybe one day when you get enough money you will leave the honda game and get a real car.
@EddV91 u tlk shit cuz u got a stock turbo on a wrx lol...buddy look honda never made a manufacture turbo on a civic or accord or nsx or wateva...why dont u take that turbo off and race an all motor....ohhh wait i forgot wrx cant cuz they suck...btw i have a video of a del vs wrx...del with a b16...only a b16 not even closely built....dont hate just a lil rust bucket beat ur shit...and nsx are more rarer den a sti..look it up...subi are plyed out just cuz they came in as factory while civic dont
@ekcoupe756 LOL ok and the BASE Subaru Impreza doesn't come turbo, so what's you're point? You ever drove a Subaru before? I highly doubt it, so enough with the "subies are played out" garbage. That's the problem with you civic fans. You think you're "little civic" is the baddest on the road. Chill out dude it's just a Honda. Btw I don't drive a Subaru I drive a Nissan :)
@ekcoupe756 you have no idea what your talking about...I used to have a 00 impreza 2.5rs n/a that would beat civic si's. if i dropped an sti engine in it then it would crush m3's. honda's suck except for nsx and s2000, what gearhead likes FWD???
@terps616 lol i forgot subaru needed awd cuz they are dogshit if they were fwd...think abt it if honda were awd they would dog subaru but they didnt cuz fwd still fucking shit up...even tho i hate fwd but hey honda still a good ass car that still knocking out awd...i seen civic beat rs all time and rs beating civic...but think abt civic are the lowest class..subaru are fast and if u beat a civic..ok u won it does feel bad cuz civic are fwd..but if u lose by a civic den tow ur car...
@ekcoupe756 all you keep sayin is "think about it." I like cars that give you the most bang for your buck. I know that honda makes some great engines, but the reason i'm an sti owner is cuz for cant find a better performing car for that price. and it performs well in rain, shine, sleet, or snow. ill admit honda's small 4 cylinder engines are well engineered, but you cant sit there and tell me that the sti isn't a great piece of engineering.
@ekcoupe756 Honda is not awd tho because it is dog shit bro. they wouldnt know how to make a good awd system like subaru. hondas dont have the horse power of a subaru either. subarus jump off the line so hard because of the AWD that right wen the race starts, everybody knows the honda doesnt have a chance in winning.
@ekcoupe756 he didn't lose heleft the line later...... like this is preety common a drag strips the sti had a- 13.2 seconds and the civic did it in 14.7 seconds so ?!?!?!?! not sure shwatt shu are talking aboutt
Of course. I want to own an STI one day, but until after I built up my RSX-S. I guess its just a matter of to each their own. Id rather built it myself, than have the manufacturer built it for me. To me, thats the beauty of owning a sports car. The only thing I would love on my car, is AWD. We're stuck with FWD lol...
@johnnybabee not true, bought my subie with 53k miles on it and i just broke 100k miles today actually and only problem ive had with it so far is ppl like to back into the driver side fender of it... everythings still original and i beat the crap outa it too.....
Hondas are just straight up annoying. The sound and look of them are just terrible in my opinion. I never understood why people pay 20000 for an si that has 200 hp. They could buy a used sti or even a brand new mazda speed 3
@Alansr10 haha yea on 06 Key word in phrase 06. A brand new SI COSTS 20000. Yea could get an 07 Sti used thats Sick for 20000 with around 50k. If you find less miles thats pretty sweet.
@argo987: Because most would rather do the work to get them up there. Hondas are great projects. If I wanted to buy something fast, Id buy something fast. I'd rather just make it faster myself.
@LAKid17 Sti's arent all engine theyre all around great cars. Brembo brakes, "bullet proof" 6 speed Tranny, BBS forged wheels with a solid drivetrain, awd, Driver controlled center differental, you can get 400 whp from the stock block and b safe. so trying to get all that into a honda would cost i would think about the same price for a used sti. Hondas r great beginner cars but for more experienced car builders. subarus is where its at. I went from hondas to Sti and happy i did.
@cg61000 Wow shut up you idiot subys sound better then a honda take it to snow or dirt or road course watch how that suby kills. You have to modify honda to keep up with an sti how you gonna say its overrated?
@scubbipower07 fwd $2000 car vs an awd $15,000 car? i gurantee you if that lil hatch put the other $13,000 into it, it would fuck that sti, plus that hatch from a roll would walk on that sti, so obviously you dont know shit about cars
@BqueScott u cant spend 2 grand for a civic that runs under 15. i own a 07 wrx and even when it was stock never did i lose to any hondas. ur prolly just a all motor honda fag anyway, the only real honda is one with a turbo.
@scubbipower07 when did i say that a stock civic could run under 15? never...i said the civic cost around $2000 stock and a stock sti is around $15,000 if u put the 13k more into the civic the sti is gonna look mad slow, so please dont talk shit if you dont know wtf you are talking about, please & thank you
so your telling me that you'll take a $15,000 STi, instead of a $3,000 civic with $12,000 cash to upgrade it? i mean, i'm not trying to hate on STi's but man, ill take the civic
When seeking to modify a car for a race, it's the logical choice to try & pick the better class of car. If you did put 13k into a 3k Civic, there is no way on earth it would perform anything close to an equivalent of a 3k Impreza with the same amount of cash spent on it. That 13k Civic would most likely even struggle against 15k STi with no modification. You'd have to drive an STi to fully understand.
Of course. But you can't throw 13K into a Civic. That money would be better spent on a CRX or a Del Sol. THOSE 2 are the cars of choice for racing. When do you ever see a Civic 4dr that can wreck some shit? Never. I've seen all-motor CRXs that will punish an STi.
@DOHCEJ22E1 there are fast all motor civics too, any car can be fast all motor, it just takes time and patience, just because you haven't seen any fast civics doesn't mean they're nonexistent.
All-motor Civics & turbo Civics are few, far, & between. However, all-motor & turbo CRXs (both hatches & Del Sols) are a dime a dozen & have more performance potential due to being designed for handling & control along with being lightweight. I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just stating why I think CRXs make the most logical choice to use as a performance canvas.
lmao josersantos why get so fag down like that lmao why so faggity with honda reply u weird bro u hating the subaru for what i dont understand idk if subaru lost because there is some demon hondas and some demon sti but just sti has more status co stop being a nooblet and a fucking shit i let go ok man clam down any car can be faster than the next
Now that I'm done defeating you & Honda in this debate, I'm done & I'm moving on. Argue with yourself if you want to. I don't see the point in arguing with someone I've crushed so many times. Farewell.
id get ah V8 supercharged audi nd beat all these SUBIE niggaz in reverse, the only reason those subarus beat honda is because their AWD but that bullshit wont work on the AWD audi......
Never said it wasn't. NSX & the S2K were Honda's BEST cars & they are now discontinued. I've seen an S2K in action & know what they can do. But now that it has been discontinued, does Honda have a car that can be considered 'competitive?'
I also never mentioned it's RWD models. When people think of Honda, they generally think of the FWD Civic/Accord models, not the S2K/NSX models. But YOU brought up the S2K so I responded to that.
3) Subaru reliabile you say. From Wiki Subaru Impreza
"Another evolution of the Impreza WRC made its debut in the 2007 Corona Rally Mexico. Unfortunately, the team had several major problems with reliability as the car experienced mechanical difficulties in almost every rally from its first"
Thats ALMOST EVERY RALLY!!
"On 16 December 2008 Subaru announced that it would withdraw from the World Rally Championship"
EVERYONE has failures in their vehicles. That didn't stop Subaru from setting records & taking award, did it? And I REALLY hope you're not comparing Honda to Subaru in terms of reliability because I'll be the first to tell you that Subarus are equal in reliability to Hondas. No questions asked. Subaru's reliability is among the best on the planet. Several magazines & critics have noted this, not just us owners, who know better than most anyways. Seriously dude, give up.
lol fuck civics thats all i gotta say i own a 2008 subaru sti and that car can pick the hell up i have droven my pals civic and its nothing to compare if you want to have a nice nice civic you gotta dump more money into the car than you bought it for. And still the civic wouldnt be able to beat an sti oh and what do civics and periods have in commin all pussys have em
I would not call exploding gas tanks, bad wheel bearings, defective airbags and fires from windows switches 'minor' as they can all potentially kill the driver.
Most Subarus without Turbo hold a 1:1 Hp/tq ratio, look it up. the base model MY 2000 impreza has MORE torque than the current 8th gen civic si
@crxdelsolsir - LOL. When you SAID "Subaru without turbo is a torqueless wonder" (and you did say it) i was merely pointing out that NA Subarus have more torque at the 1:1 ratio. Never mind that the lowest end subaru models push more torque than the SI's and type-R's. -> FAIL.
Who cares about HP when it's TQ that does the work in the low to midrange? You REALLY ARE slow when it comes to power production & practicality.
An older civic may have more HP but I blow them out ALL OF THE TIME with my Legacy. TQ is KING when top end speed isn't needed. Fast cars like highways & fast drivers like corners. This saying alone should be enough reason why Subaru>Honda.
LOL @ Civic! Impreza is a more useful car than a Civic is.
1:Gas engines can also produce shit tons of TQ. Look at Subaru, BMW, Audi, Dodge, & nearly every other company produces a 4 cylinder engine that generates decent TQ. Honda's 4 cylinders seem to be THE ONLY ONES that are completely gutless & focused towards the top end. On tracks with long straights, a Honda might be useful but in urban settings, they have no good TQ for any sort of movement from a stop.
Gas engines do produce good TQ, though obviously not to the extent of a diesel engine. Hell, VW diesels produce good TQ for their size & Audi produces one of the best diesels in the world.
Give me one Honda 4 cyl that produces more TQ than any diesel it's size, let alone any other gas engine it's size & I'll give you a thumbs up.
Hondas are gutless. Extremely gutless. Which is why my Legacy can out run an Integra GSR from stop to top speed in N/A. For a 1.8, Hondas put out terrible TQ numbers.
It does put a smile everytime a review or stats come out showing Honda excelling more than Subaru (Unit Sales, Honda in top 10 cars sold world wide etc etc.)
1:I guess you've never seen the reviews of Subaru owners saying that they would never own any other car. Most of the people in the forum I'm a part of are former Honda owners saying that they would never go back to a Honda. The fact of Subaru>Honda will always remain until Honda steps up their game in the next 20 years or so.
2:And exactly WHAT Honda excelled more than Subaru at? Selling cheap cars for people who can't afford a good one? Wake up. Subaru>Honda in most of everything. Get over it.
1:Wow, selling more cars to people who don't know any better doesn't count as being 'better'. Quality, not quantity determines a good car.
2: The $90K NSX provided performance VERY similar to the $30K STi & it's interior was that of a normal Accord. It didn't even have navigation for that price. It wasn't selling well because 1-It was a 90K Honda=Ridiculous, 2-It couldn't match rivals at that price, & 3-Nobody was going to pay $90K for an Accord with a reversed drivetrain.
1) I bet you will not say that about Subaru if Subaru was outselling Honda.
Honda has better quality (per JD Powers) than Subaru.
2) For one the NSX was aluminium and STi was not.
Engineering wise the NSX was revolutionary. Your assessment of cars once again is only on numbers and speed. You demonstrate again your lack of engineering understanding. If you do understand engineering you sure demostrate a lack of appreciation.
1:Subaru IS outselling Honda in both the new market & the used market & has been outsellng them in the used market for years :)
2:Honda & Subaru = in reliability per the mechanics who work on them, not the fake ass JD Powers.
3:The NSX was revolutionary in body chassis design & usage of VTEC in it's V6. Subaru was revolutionary in it implementation of AWD, Turbo H4, Twin Turbo H4, & usage of rally technology in it's road cars.
1:There aren't as many Subarus are there are Hondas in the world but they sell faster.
2:But the logical assessment. Who knows Subaru's better than those who built & own them? Nobody. Especially not some guy who drove in the car for a week. It takes a lot longer than that to understand a car.
3:Subaru was the first to create a twin turbo H4 & the first to use a Boxer for Rally racing. So no, they didn't copy anybody. Besides, by that time, pretty much EVERYONE used a turbo in rally racing.
Honda's 4 cylinders get phased out after a few years while Subaru has stuck with 1 mainstream 4 cylinder engine. You're very slow if you think that they haven't been advancing in the past 20+ years. EJ is far more advanced than even Honda's V6s. There is so much that can be done with advancing the EJ that Subaru would be stupid to get rid of it now. TOO many things have been done with that engine in terms of engineering, more than Honda could dream of with any of it's 4 cylinders.
Sticking to one engine does not mean its a good trait. Actually its the opposite. It shows how slow the engine evolution is or the designation codes are just as radically updated as Honda.
Fact that Honda has more engines powered in more ways than Subaru means Honda is far more active and far more advanced in engine technology than Subaru.
Subaru doesnt even have Hybrids, Hydrogen powered, Jet or Solar powered engines.
2) Subaru has been using 4wd/awd since the 70's you say? Well Jeep has been producing 4wd since 1940's.
4wd handles better? Only on certain conditions and for the extra cost of weight and economy to name two. Economy is the more important factor today hence more 2wd cars or cars that can run on 2wd.
Subaru got it wrong by focusing on full time all wheel drive. Hence why they are not introducing selectable AWD. Even they see the falasy of Constant AWD
Guess you've never heard of Subaru's DCCD, which is manual control over the center differential to change the distribution of power from the front or rear wheels or 50/50 lock. You're far behind in Subaru's advancement.
In all of Subaru's cars, constant AWD is employed. Only in it's top performance models do they use DCCD, meaning that the wheel control is more of a sport thing than something to lower gas mileage. Besides, even if you had control of wheel distribution, it would only affect gas mileage very minimal. You'd only gain about 3 or 4 mpg at BEST because of the mechanical drag of the extra AWD parts. Subarus can net extremely good gas mileage with a feather foot.
3) Honda has not made reliable turbo engines you say?
Contrary to your ill advised comment Honda has been making reliable Turbo engines, albeit formula one. Honda beat Subaru in F1 fair and square with Subaru deemed uncompetitive in the Turbo Era F1.
Honda does build reliable transmission hence the S2000 transmissions hold up while WRX must upgrade to Sti Transmissions as it breaks all the time. Good engineering by Subaru hey... Lol
Correction. I meant Subaru is NOW introducing selectable AWD (albeit on some cars only).
Other manufactueres eg. Nissan Patrol, Toyota Landcruiser and Mitsubishi Pajero, Honda MDX had selectable modes ages ago. They new constant AWD wastes fuel and is not advantageous all the time hence the need to turn it off.
In actual fact 2wd is more the norm with AWD requirements only on exceptional situations. Subaru is only beginning to learn this. A late Learner.
1:Subaru has had it's DCCD system for years. They didn't just come out with it, they only introduced it for people to use.
2:Constant AWD does not disengage & even the DCCD retains an element of AWD despite a mode selection. This is to maintain stability in case the car slips out of control.
3:Subaru is considered 1 of the masters of AWD, alongside Porsche & Audi. Honda cannot stand next to these 2 brands so don't even argue about that either.
Subaru's DCCD is RALLY DERIVED. This means that it's already gone through the trial & errors of being subjected to rally abuse! LOL! Honda's SH-Awd doesn't have shit on the DCCD, which can transfer full power to front, rear, remain variable, or lock into 50/50 (4wd). Honda's SH-Awd does NOT do all of this. Honda won that award because it uses electromagnetic clutches to split the TQ from front to rear. Subaru AND Audi BOTH do this but they don't use electromagnetism.
1:You think that Honda came out with the idea of Yaw Control (Side to Side TQ distribution)? Mitsubishi's been using it TO KEEP UP WITH the Subaru's AWD because it's THAT DAMN GOOD.
2:I guess you missed where I said DCCD can distribute power to the front (70-30), rear (30-70), become variable, or 4WD (50/50).
3:Subaru wasn't designed with yaw control but with way it performs, it definitely doesn't need it & PLEASE don't compare them again...
4:You can stop with Honda now. You're losing badly...
1) Hence Mitsubishis AWD is better than Subaru since Subaru has no Yaw control.
2) DCCD cannot shift as much as Honda. Max front wheel drive effect of DCCD is only 35 front 65 rear (Honda 70 front 30 rear). Max rear wheel drive effect of DCCD is 50/50 (Honda 30 front 70 rear).
DCCD cannot even shift power left and right. Honda has got Subaru system beat.
If Subaru had it Honda would not have won international awards and world first innovation by it.
1:Evo & STi are dead even. Mitsubishi's AWD system is ON PAR with Subaru's DCCD, both of which exceed Honda's SH-AWD.
2:STi's transmission is one of the toughest & most reliable transmissions to ever exist. Honda's SH-AWD is already starting to have problems. No comparison.
3:DCCD is a rally created system. SH-AWD is not. Also, your info is very wrong about the DCCD. Mine's is taken directly from Subaru.
Yaw control doesn't make EVO's AWD better. That is complete & utter ridiculousness. Honda's SH-AWD copies both Mitsu & Subaru yet fails to meet THEIR standards, not the other way around. Get it right. Without the use of electromagnets, the SH-AWD would just barely be an acceptable AWD system. The system is also more complex & much heavier than Subaru & Mitsu's systems for no reason at all. Doesn't really make a good application for a sports car to use.
1:Subaru is innovative & continuously improving too. Which is why it only needs one type of engine to power most of it's cars instead of 8 like Hondas do.
2:WRXs actually have very good transmissions. The problem with those is that the WRX is a badass street car that people just feel the need to beat on. Unfortunately, the trannies were made for street use, not racing.
3:I KNOW you're not talking about transmissions when Honda can't build a good one to save it's life. Most of THEIR trannies suck
You expect a development every year?! Are you serious?
Anyway because Honda is a leader in technology, not just engines look at the SH-AWD innovation. It was the "worlds first" torque vectoring four wheel drive system! With awards from Popular Science as one of the best automotive innovations of 2004, and earned the 2005 "Tech car of the year" from CNET
No equivalent from Subaru.
Honda has the FCX Clarity Hydrogen powered- 1st in US. No equiv from Subaru.
1:Subaru does NOT have airbag defects! LOL! Where the hell did you get THAT from!?
2:Only 2008 Subarus have rod failures & those engines are being replaced. For free. Btw, my Legacy has not 1 strip of paint peeled off of it.
3:N/A Subarus destroy Honda N/As in city driving. They can't accelerate for shit. Any N/A Subaru 2L+ has over 150ft-lbs @ LOW rpm. Hondas can barely make over that at HIGH rpm. Go figure.
A seat belt and an airbag is minor? You're nuts. Even if I wasn't a fanboy, that's just stupid to think that seatbelt or an airbag defects is minor. I use to own a 1993 Accord, so I know. Let's see how minor it is when you don't have a working seatbelt or airbag and you get into a wreck. Also to say Subaru without a turbocharger has less torque is completely false. Have you seen the HP/TQ numbers from a USDM 2000 RS on a dyno? I have, it's got more torque than a stock Type R.
Subaru Without Turbo is a torqueless wonder that cant even compete with Honda!
You are a typical loser that's fucks himself with your own hand, that's so far up your ass you are using it as a means to talk shit with it. I'm not a fanboy. I love all cars for what they are worth, but when someone like you who cites shit from the internet than off hand knowledge, it's sad.
First hand knowldege is a Subaru WRX without a Turbo is essentially an Impreza
No factory NA 2.0 or 2.5 ltr Impreza has even beaten a factory spec S2000, NSX or Type R Civic or Type R Integra or Accord Type R or any older Honda SiR
Subaru needs a turbo to even be competitive
Subaru cannot compete without a turbo hence why no NA subaru competes with other manufacturers purelye on an NA stand point. Because N/A tkes alot more engineering which Subaru is not competitive enough to make
You're stupid. My Legacy is a LOT better and faster than any USDM Si, which is equivalent to any international SiR & I'd love to show you personally that you're full of shit.
Legacy n/a's are equal or better to Accords & the turbocharged one make more power than Type Rs do. This is a limit to how much you can do with N/A. Power is power, it doesn't matter how it's made so stop bitching about turbo vs n/a. Power is power.
Its like saying the US Sti is the same as the Japanese Sti.. its not.
Im not full of shit you are. Power is not just power. Its how its made. Focusing just on power means nothing as a Honda Jet engine makes more power than any Subuar Turbo engine.
Honda making NA cars rivaling Turbo is much more innovative and impresive than a Turbo car which has an induction advantage and already expected to be be powerful.
1:A civic is a civic & a CRX is a CRX. I'm not going to hype them up because whether they are DOHC or SOHC, NEITHER of them are making any REAL power down low where is matters. I mean, they have a hell of a powerband to play with but where's the power? LOL!
2:Power is power because as long as it does what it's supposed to, what else matters? And a Turbo Subaru h4 makes more power than any of Honda's I4s. Power is power.
3:Yeah, 300hp N/As can be impressive until they face a 500hp turbo.
F1 removed turbo as its a cop out way of making power and a recognition NA is more difficult and require higher engineering ingenuity.
Subaru needing a turbo shows it has no engineering ingenuity to compete against an NA Honda.
Have an NA Honda vs NA Subaru and the Honda will wax and rape the Subaru anyday.
Subaru having Turbo and AWD going against an NA and 2WD vehicle is not unique its a set up advantage!! Moron hence the suggestion to take it off to play on even rules.
F1/FIA likes to cut costs. So NA is the way to go, to reduce costs.
Honda having no turbo shows they have engineering ingenuity, 100hp/L with only 197hp is boring.
Turbo Subaru vs Turbo Honda, the subaru will rape the Honda anyday.
Play off on even rules? You're all 'what if the honda did this and the subaru did this' when in reality you have 2 different cars and 2 drivers that want to race each other; and you making excuses when the honda takes the L
FIA going NA is not to cut costs...hahaha...your a douche. Any F1 person knows why they made the switch and its not due to costs. Educate yourself on F1 before making false statements.
Subaru had a chance in going against Honda in F1 (with turbo) but they failed, just like your argument.
As you said 2 diff cars 2 diff set up so this doesnt prove anything. Would call a Turbo Honda vs NA Subaru race even? Im sure you won't
By your comment you obviously dont know that Honda has been in F1 before their recent involvement. They didnt have a spectacular failure in F1as they have already proved themselves and have gained respect since the 1960's you noob.
LOL. Like a 3 - 88 record is something respectable. Honda is an engine supplier, thats it. Not good enough to be an F1 team. Subaru went on to suceed in WRC, while honda stayed and failed in F1 further more.
Not really, it means their technology is better suited to WRC. Not to mention the organizational success of Toyota and Subaru. They took the lead role, and succeeded. While neither did well in F1, they are icons in WRC. However, being an engine supplier like Honda doesn't put it on the same level as say Ferrari. They had limited success in F1 and none in WRC. What happened to the JWRC CTR??
@crxdelsolsir subaru never even tried for F1, learn the facts kid they never had a formula project heck they even stopped funding WRC like hyundai and many more, like BMW stopped funding their F1 project and dropped out, learn the FACTS!
I get tired of watching straight line drag racing WRX videos vs other cars.
Where's the video of WRX vs Honda on a track? Or a dirt road? In the snow? On the ice? On a curvy road?
The WRX wasn't made for straight line speed, it was made for exceptional cornering.
slandshark 1 month ago
@terps616 Your're trying way too hard to get through to a biased moron. It really comes down to this..what was the Civic SI's Nurburgring time compared to the STI's? Let's see here..I found the STI's 7'55. Wait..where is the SI's? I can't find it!!
9dewittk 1 month ago
F**K HONDA ricers minus s2ks nsx's etc... subie power
bluntedevz 2 months ago
@Marshmallowrex Dude calm down its the current car i own lol........ if i could choose i would go buy a 05 subaru legacy GT. Just because you can't afford a car doesn't mean you have to be a troll to other people.
Leg22gt 3 months ago
Not even close ;) Your Subaru hate is quite unjustified though. You should have known you were going to get trolled at some point.
DOHCEJ22E1 3 months ago
Why does he sound stupid as fuck? Because he drives a BETTER car? Get over yourself & stop trolling videos with Subaru hate. Drive one & you'll know IMMEDIATELY has much better it is than any Si you can drive in stock form. For real. Build for build is what I respect but FWD Hondas are NOT driver's cars in stock form.
DOHCEJ22E1 3 months ago
I speak ill of Subarus here because the price paid for the 2.0 turbo is a lot they all break the engine and gearbox the civic is so much chep and has the same speed. HONDA
certinhoVTI 4 months ago
@certinhoVTI SUBARU
xmodssouth 3 months ago
@certinhoVTI if you have ever drove a subaru you would change your mind. I use to be a HONDA Fan but i bought a subaru and now im converted to the turbo. I respect Honda but Subaru is WAY BETTER and SOUNDS BETTER unlike the fart cans most ricers have.
Leg22gt 3 months ago
@certinhoVTI not even close to the same speed. but good try.
oceansnow760 1 week ago
@certinhoVTI The honda jumped so early and it still lost
oceansnow760 1 week ago
i guess my point is id rather have an AWD turbo vs. a FWD n/a car. my dislike for honda's stem from all the kids that cut off the springs and put on a stupid exhaust and drive around thinking it fast when its slower than most mini-vans. civics need to modded pretty extensively to be on par with a stock wrx let alone an sti.and even then its still FWD and to me thats not an ideal track setup.
terps616 4 months ago 2
subarus is cheet. if the civic had 300hp and 4wd the impreza never had a chanse!!! hehehehe
certinhoVTI 4 months ago
@certinhoVTI with the added weight of the civic in a drag it wouldnt really matter...
McOrca09 3 months ago
only took one second longer and has less than 100hp HONDA.
certinhoVTI 4 months ago
awd and turbo and only 1 second faster. damn.....
Camg3591 5 months ago
Civic jumped the line and got a head start...And still look at the times - Subaru: 13.245 / Civic: 14.775. Moral of the story: Civic's suck.
NickDevXT 6 months ago
Comment removed
certinhoVTI 6 months ago
@certinhoVTI bullshit your a virgin and you have a small dick, your parents dont love you
andrewpauls777 6 months ago
Comment removed
certinhoVTI 6 months ago
U pay $20,000 for a brand new si and it lives up until 250,000 miles and an sti is gonna give you a solid 150,000 miles. So why buy a Honda? it's a decent sports car if you aren't too serious about cars and it's real reliable
RockyHillTrickShotz 6 months ago
20000 for si....still get walk by si lmfao...race an nsx.....stop bitching abt honda.....ohh wait i forgot u cant keep up wit an nsx so u have to race a civic so u can beat them by a fender.....a fender tho....pretty sad...thats y my civic love scooby snacks it taste real good
ekcoupe756 6 months ago
@ekcoupe756 Nobody cares about ur $2,000 civic. Anybody can modify a car to beat anything. You must be one of those kids that think ur civic is the baddest on the road. Chill out its just a honda that you will sell one day for under 4k LOL. I would own a STi over civic anyday.
EddV91 5 months ago
@EddV91 yea of course i take the subi and den i sell it cuz its played out....but ok yea subi cost more but still lose by a 2000 dollar car...use logic buddy..just imagine u lose by a civic..wat will happen with an s2000 or nsx....u aint ready..
ekcoupe756 5 months ago
@ekcoupe756 Obviously you will have to mod ur 2000 dollar car to be an sti. Stock for stock a civic or s2k stands no chance against the subie. The NSX is what you will call a reliable super car which comes at 270BHP while the sti at 276BHP. And what happens when you mod an sti? Btw what makes you think subies are played out? They weren't built for drag. Take em to a track or dirt or snow then youll see how good the sti really is.
EddV91 5 months ago
@ekcoupe756 learn to fucking speak english
ty922 5 months ago
@ty922 wow u can understand retarded words....
ekcoupe756 5 months ago
Crazy comment, sir. STis are known to keep up with NSXs around a track with ease. Where will your NSX be when the winter comes? Not out in the snow. And S2000s are also eaten on a course by an STi. It happens. Honda doesn't have a sports car that can outdo a 22B STi Version or a Spec C. Stock for stock, there is no comparison. Civics are inferior cars to Imprezas. Now imagine modding them... The Impreza has the advantage.
DOHCEJ22E1 5 months ago
@DOHCEJ22E1 nsx type r will walk an sit all day...who cares abt snow....i seen a lot of videos of civic walking sti or regular wrx or wateva....if i wanted to race u on snow i would rather drive an evo..subi are played out..i saw all subie that are blue,blk some white...they are plyed out..i rather get a civic that can modd different way and different color that stands out...yea subi are fast but they aint that fast...evo are better in my opinion..but i rather get a civic that subi
ekcoupe756 5 months ago
No, they won't "walk an STi all day". Put up the NSX Type R against a 22B STi Version or a Spec C & it's getting curb stomped & shitted on, stock for stock. Civics DO NOT stand out more than Subarus & get played on way more. Any Joe Blow with a McDonald's job could have one. DXs are not hard to find at all. Evos can beat STis by the skin of their teeth thanks to YAW electronics. How many stock Civics do you know that can knock off 2 seconds off their 0-60mph factory rated launch?
DOHCEJ22E1 5 months ago
@DOHCEJ22E1 thats the power of boost!!!! lol if only they made a turbo aplication for the k20 stock in a civic SIR :P running at 5 psi, then we can do what you just said at boost her up to a good 18 psi :P or 20 even.
riggedking 5 months ago
That's the thing, there is already a boosted K series engine & it's PHENOMINAL (K23A1 in RDX). If THAT were boosted to 20 psi, not only could it take that level of power all day, but then it also produces VERY usable TQ for motorsports applications. Unfortunately, there are reports of that engine being very difficult to swap. Another turbocharged beast would be a K20/24 build.
DOHCEJ22E1 5 months ago
@DOHCEJ22E1 come on buddy u probably walk civic or nsx or type r or si or wateva like a car or twos or even a fender...but think abt it civic never had turbo stock it only came wit a stock motor and sti comes wit turbo cuz they suck at all motor..so imagine a turbo single cam or wat eva lmfao..they will walk an sti...sti suppose to beat a civic cuz they are "turbo"sooo urbo vs motor...of course it will win...but when u mod a lil engine it does damgage
ekcoupe756 5 months ago
Subaru engines are different than Honda engines. The older ones don't come with variable valve timing, they're not built for high revs like Hondas & it's very expensive to build them up N/A, so most build them up for boost, which is better since WRC is mostly about using AWD & turbo 4cyls, & that is how the engine & AWD were originally designed.
Now, all motor engines for Subarus are the EG & EZ engines (6cyls) build these up & we're talking 400bhp+ easy along with TQ to match.
DOHCEJ22E1 5 months ago
@ekcoupe756 Why you talking about the nsx? If anything the NSX is played out because it's so damn exspensive for little power. 30k+ for a NSX 20k for an STi/EVO of course depending on miles. And just how are subies played out? They are WRC legends not cars built for drag, but then again tune one of them motherfuckers and they will be bad fast. So stick to you're little $2,000 civic. Maybe one day when you get enough money you will leave the honda game and get a real car.
EddV91 5 months ago
@EddV91 u tlk shit cuz u got a stock turbo on a wrx lol...buddy look honda never made a manufacture turbo on a civic or accord or nsx or wateva...why dont u take that turbo off and race an all motor....ohhh wait i forgot wrx cant cuz they suck...btw i have a video of a del vs wrx...del with a b16...only a b16 not even closely built....dont hate just a lil rust bucket beat ur shit...and nsx are more rarer den a sti..look it up...subi are plyed out just cuz they came in as factory while civic dont
ekcoupe756 5 months ago
@ekcoupe756 LOL ok and the BASE Subaru Impreza doesn't come turbo, so what's you're point? You ever drove a Subaru before? I highly doubt it, so enough with the "subies are played out" garbage. That's the problem with you civic fans. You think you're "little civic" is the baddest on the road. Chill out dude it's just a Honda. Btw I don't drive a Subaru I drive a Nissan :)
EddV91 5 months ago
@EddV91 who said were the baddest one lmfao...ur just tight cuz u lost by an eco rust bucket honda......Y U MAD BRO
ekcoupe756 5 months ago
@ekcoupe756 Nah you just mad cause all you can afford is civics LOL
EddV91 5 months ago
@EddV91 nissan are cheap too 240 are dumb cheap...its ok if ur mad...i be mad to if i drive a nissan and lost by a civic...i be tight like u
ekcoupe756 5 months ago
Respond to this video... i drove my friend wrx....it isnt bad but still its dog shit..the only thing it move cuz of the turbo...witout it its dogshit
ekcoupe756 5 months ago
@ekcoupe756 you have no idea what your talking about...I used to have a 00 impreza 2.5rs n/a that would beat civic si's. if i dropped an sti engine in it then it would crush m3's. honda's suck except for nsx and s2000, what gearhead likes FWD???
terps616 4 months ago
@terps616 lol i forgot subaru needed awd cuz they are dogshit if they were fwd...think abt it if honda were awd they would dog subaru but they didnt cuz fwd still fucking shit up...even tho i hate fwd but hey honda still a good ass car that still knocking out awd...i seen civic beat rs all time and rs beating civic...but think abt civic are the lowest class..subaru are fast and if u beat a civic..ok u won it does feel bad cuz civic are fwd..but if u lose by a civic den tow ur car...
ekcoupe756 4 months ago
@ekcoupe756 all you keep sayin is "think about it." I like cars that give you the most bang for your buck. I know that honda makes some great engines, but the reason i'm an sti owner is cuz for cant find a better performing car for that price. and it performs well in rain, shine, sleet, or snow. ill admit honda's small 4 cylinder engines are well engineered, but you cant sit there and tell me that the sti isn't a great piece of engineering.
terps616 4 months ago
@ekcoupe756 Honda is not awd tho because it is dog shit bro. they wouldnt know how to make a good awd system like subaru. hondas dont have the horse power of a subaru either. subarus jump off the line so hard because of the AWD that right wen the race starts, everybody knows the honda doesnt have a chance in winning.
oceansnow760 1 week ago
@ekcoupe756 he didn't lose heleft the line later...... like this is preety common a drag strips the sti had a- 13.2 seconds and the civic did it in 14.7 seconds so ?!?!?!?! not sure shwatt shu are talking aboutt
petermello55 5 months ago
Subaru is the best known Japanese namebrand for racecars and rally purposes,while Honda Known for producing reliable vehicles.
PimpThe478 6 months ago
who won that race.
PimpThe478 6 months ago
Of course. I want to own an STI one day, but until after I built up my RSX-S. I guess its just a matter of to each their own. Id rather built it myself, than have the manufacturer built it for me. To me, thats the beauty of owning a sports car. The only thing I would love on my car, is AWD. We're stuck with FWD lol...
LAKid17 7 months ago
LOl the rice box civic jumped the line and the sti still smoked him, SUBARU PWR!!!!
shizzel122 8 months ago
20 k? yea, and u prolly won't get down the street without the subie grenading the motor. A used turbo = bad investment.
johnnybabee 10 months ago
@johnnybabee not true, bought my subie with 53k miles on it and i just broke 100k miles today actually and only problem ive had with it so far is ppl like to back into the driver side fender of it... everythings still original and i beat the crap outa it too.....
boostedbogan 10 months ago
@johnnybabee You DEFINE idiot. You have no idea what you're talking about.
paintballfan988 8 months ago
Hondas are just straight up annoying. The sound and look of them are just terrible in my opinion. I never understood why people pay 20000 for an si that has 200 hp. They could buy a used sti or even a brand new mazda speed 3
argo987 10 months ago
@argo987 si's are 20000? WTF??? Thats the price of an 06 STi with less then 50k miles
Alansr10 10 months ago
@Alansr10 haha yea on 06 Key word in phrase 06. A brand new SI COSTS 20000. Yea could get an 07 Sti used thats Sick for 20000 with around 50k. If you find less miles thats pretty sweet.
argo987 10 months ago
@argo987 I ask myself that all the time. I hate hondas
EddV91 9 months ago
@EddV91 Im glad you agree.
argo987 9 months ago
@argo987: Because most would rather do the work to get them up there. Hondas are great projects. If I wanted to buy something fast, Id buy something fast. I'd rather just make it faster myself.
LAKid17 8 months ago
@LAKid17 Valid argument.
argo987 8 months ago
@LAKid17 Sti's arent all engine theyre all around great cars. Brembo brakes, "bullet proof" 6 speed Tranny, BBS forged wheels with a solid drivetrain, awd, Driver controlled center differental, you can get 400 whp from the stock block and b safe. so trying to get all that into a honda would cost i would think about the same price for a used sti. Hondas r great beginner cars but for more experienced car builders. subarus is where its at. I went from hondas to Sti and happy i did.
HonsFF13 7 months ago
first of all the lightest of them is the one that u see in the video which is the eg6 (92-95 honda civic hatchback).
the crx is light but the del sol is heavy bro
elb0ricua123 1 year ago
Even if the sti did lose, which it never would, but IF it did at the end of the day it is still the winner, hondas are for mexicans
TrippyMcFly43 1 year ago
@TrippyMcFly43 Subes=over rated, and i see sti's get beat all the time by hondas bro!!!
cg61000 10 months ago
Put them on a road course or have a Honda race a RWD converted Subaru & see what happens.
Honda techs like to customize their cars, right? So do us Subaru boys.
Not bashing Honda. I think it's an excellent brand of car.
However, the difference between a Subaru & a Honda are night & day.
DOHCEJ22E1 10 months ago
@cg61000 after the honda drops 5000+ on a decent turbo setup...
michaelstotts713 9 months ago
@cg61000 Wow shut up you idiot subys sound better then a honda take it to snow or dirt or road course watch how that suby kills. You have to modify honda to keep up with an sti how you gonna say its overrated?
EddV91 9 months ago
scubbipower07 has a point...
The STi is worth twice it's cost functionally & mechanically.
Shove 13K in a Civic & it still won't be half the car that a stock STi is.
It's only gonna' be faster in a straight line & not even half as fun to drive.
DOHCEJ22E1 1 year ago
i bet that civic has hella work done 2 it and couldnt take a stock subbi
scubbipower07 1 year ago
@scubbipower07 fwd $2000 car vs an awd $15,000 car? i gurantee you if that lil hatch put the other $13,000 into it, it would fuck that sti, plus that hatch from a roll would walk on that sti, so obviously you dont know shit about cars
BqueScott 1 year ago
@BqueScott u cant spend 2 grand for a civic that runs under 15. i own a 07 wrx and even when it was stock never did i lose to any hondas. ur prolly just a all motor honda fag anyway, the only real honda is one with a turbo.
scubbipower07 1 year ago
@scubbipower07 when did i say that a stock civic could run under 15? never...i said the civic cost around $2000 stock and a stock sti is around $15,000 if u put the 13k more into the civic the sti is gonna look mad slow, so please dont talk shit if you dont know wtf you are talking about, please & thank you
BqueScott 1 year ago
@BqueScott i get that but u get way more of a car for 15 grand. even if u did put 13000 in the honda it wont drive like a subaru
scubbipower07 1 year ago
@scubbipower07 @DOHCEJ22E1 i know i'm just talkin about drag racing, the lil civic would get raped on the corners
BqueScott 1 year ago
@scubbipower07
so your telling me that you'll take a $15,000 STi, instead of a $3,000 civic with $12,000 cash to upgrade it? i mean, i'm not trying to hate on STi's but man, ill take the civic
shaochiavang 1 year ago
When seeking to modify a car for a race, it's the logical choice to try & pick the better class of car. If you did put 13k into a 3k Civic, there is no way on earth it would perform anything close to an equivalent of a 3k Impreza with the same amount of cash spent on it. That 13k Civic would most likely even struggle against 15k STi with no modification. You'd have to drive an STi to fully understand.
DOHCEJ22E1 1 year ago
@DOHCEJ22E1
cmon man, you seem to know alot about cars. You know what those hondas can do.
shaochiavang 1 year ago
Of course. But you can't throw 13K into a Civic. That money would be better spent on a CRX or a Del Sol. THOSE 2 are the cars of choice for racing. When do you ever see a Civic 4dr that can wreck some shit? Never. I've seen all-motor CRXs that will punish an STi.
DOHCEJ22E1 1 year ago
@DOHCEJ22E1 there are fast all motor civics too, any car can be fast all motor, it just takes time and patience, just because you haven't seen any fast civics doesn't mean they're nonexistent.
hmoobvaj95 11 months ago
All-motor Civics & turbo Civics are few, far, & between. However, all-motor & turbo CRXs (both hatches & Del Sols) are a dime a dozen & have more performance potential due to being designed for handling & control along with being lightweight. I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just stating why I think CRXs make the most logical choice to use as a performance canvas.
DOHCEJ22E1 11 months ago
@DOHCEJ22E1 those bubble hatch civics are extremely light. The 92-95 VX hatch weighs 2094 lb. also the del sol and the civic share the same chassis.
kyleisreallycool 5 months ago
lmao civic got a damn head start and still couldn't beat tha subaru x)
crazzyboy99 1 year ago
That civic is slow as fuck
JoeyJokester11 1 year ago
from the dig the civic is not going to win to any subaru sti or wrx cause they are 4wd or awd,,
bbblopez 1 year ago
well its was expected...
Speaks2Much 1 year ago
lol civic lost, and it had a head start, i expected that. everyone calm your tits... jeez -_- leave your opinion, reflect and move on lol
JUSTchillen 1 year ago
lmao josersantos why get so fag down like that lmao why so faggity with honda reply u weird bro u hating the subaru for what i dont understand idk if subaru lost because there is some demon hondas and some demon sti but just sti has more status co stop being a nooblet and a fucking shit i let go ok man clam down any car can be faster than the next
paulam128 1 year ago
Now that I'm done defeating you & Honda in this debate, I'm done & I'm moving on. Argue with yourself if you want to. I don't see the point in arguing with someone I've crushed so many times. Farewell.
akabane1984 1 year ago
y do ppl even put civic's against that AWD subaru??? y not juss get ah EVO nd kill that BULLSHIT!!!!
panthercreekallday 1 year ago
id get ah V8 supercharged audi nd beat all these SUBIE niggaz in reverse, the only reason those subarus beat honda is because their AWD but that bullshit wont work on the AWD audi......
panthercreekallday 1 year ago
GST Impreza was an example of how well the EJ takes to ethanol after being built. Subaru didn't actually build it.
akabane1984 1 year ago
@akabane1984
Honda already had ethanol, bio fuel and flex fuel ages ago.. you dont stand a chance in this argument.
Point an alternate fuel source Subaru pioneered or applied before any one else. you will not find one.
crxdelsolsir 1 year ago
@akabane1984
so a Honda S2000 is not a corner carver? what the fuck are you smoking? get a ride in one and tell me it doesn't drive through the corners.
v8subie 1 year ago
Never said it wasn't. NSX & the S2K were Honda's BEST cars & they are now discontinued. I've seen an S2K in action & know what they can do. But now that it has been discontinued, does Honda have a car that can be considered 'competitive?'
akabane1984 1 year ago
@akabane1984
you said Hondas. nothing was said about discontinuation.
v8subie 1 year ago
I also never mentioned it's RWD models. When people think of Honda, they generally think of the FWD Civic/Accord models, not the S2K/NSX models. But YOU brought up the S2K so I responded to that.
akabane1984 1 year ago
@akabane1984
you said Hondas.
v8subie 1 year ago
You're being a dick ;)
akabane1984 1 year ago
@crxdelsolsir
yeah, the ep3's transmission matched so well with the engine.
v8subie 1 year ago
@akabane1984
3) Subaru reliabile you say. From Wiki Subaru Impreza
"Another evolution of the Impreza WRC made its debut in the 2007 Corona Rally Mexico. Unfortunately, the team had several major problems with reliability as the car experienced mechanical difficulties in almost every rally from its first"
Thats ALMOST EVERY RALLY!!
"On 16 December 2008 Subaru announced that it would withdraw from the World Rally Championship"
I wonder why? Ha ha
crxdelsolsir 1 year ago
EVERYONE has failures in their vehicles. That didn't stop Subaru from setting records & taking award, did it? And I REALLY hope you're not comparing Honda to Subaru in terms of reliability because I'll be the first to tell you that Subarus are equal in reliability to Hondas. No questions asked. Subaru's reliability is among the best on the planet. Several magazines & critics have noted this, not just us owners, who know better than most anyways. Seriously dude, give up.
akabane1984 1 year ago
honda is shit u cant compare shitty civics VTi wiv subaru Comon
fab0273 1 year ago
lol fuck civics thats all i gotta say i own a 2008 subaru sti and that car can pick the hell up i have droven my pals civic and its nothing to compare if you want to have a nice nice civic you gotta dump more money into the car than you bought it for. And still the civic wouldnt be able to beat an sti oh and what do civics and periods have in commin all pussys have em
ripper20677 1 year ago
the world according to crxdelsolsir;
honda is the greatest f1 team every
(0 wins)
honda can take absolutely all credit for the success of the teams they supply engines to
superior engineering ONLY includes 2.0L or less, N/a engines with no torque
the NSX is the greatest car ever.
honda defects and recalls don't count, but subarus do.
- "Without Turbo and AWD Subaru is shit.", because its ok to take away everything that makes a car unique
VTEC > Boost, bigger displacement, more cylinders
NOPN 1 year ago
@NOP
Honda Defects are minor compared to Subaru. (power window switch and airbag)
Subar Defects are MAJOR - Rod failures, head gasket failuress, Paint peeling after 1 Yr!! Engine manufacuring temporarily stopped etc
With class actions against Subaru hence the stoppage of manufacturing!!!
NSX has a very flat torque curve for an NA
Subaru Without Turbo is a torqueless wonder that cant even compete with Honda!
crxdelsolsir 1 year ago
I would not call exploding gas tanks, bad wheel bearings, defective airbags and fires from windows switches 'minor' as they can all potentially kill the driver.
Most Subarus without Turbo hold a 1:1 Hp/tq ratio, look it up. the base model MY 2000 impreza has MORE torque than the current 8th gen civic si
NOPN 1 year ago
@NOPN
Who said 1:1 is the most ideal ratio?
Who cares if your Impreza has more torque? Both in NA form The Civic has more Hp!
Even an older civic has more Hp than your newer N/A Impreza!
crxdelsolsir 1 year ago
@crxdelsolsir - LOL. When you SAID "Subaru without turbo is a torqueless wonder" (and you did say it) i was merely pointing out that NA Subarus have more torque at the 1:1 ratio. Never mind that the lowest end subaru models push more torque than the SI's and type-R's. -> FAIL.
NOPN 1 year ago
Who cares about HP when it's TQ that does the work in the low to midrange? You REALLY ARE slow when it comes to power production & practicality.
An older civic may have more HP but I blow them out ALL OF THE TIME with my Legacy. TQ is KING when top end speed isn't needed. Fast cars like highways & fast drivers like corners. This saying alone should be enough reason why Subaru>Honda.
LOL @ Civic! Impreza is a more useful car than a Civic is.
akabane1984 1 year ago
@akabane1984
If Torque was King then Diesel would be better than your car.
Fact Diesel is not the majority of cars and not the choice of people shows Torque is not the end all.
Lol to your argument Torque is everything!
crxdelsolsir 1 year ago
1:Gas engines can also produce shit tons of TQ. Look at Subaru, BMW, Audi, Dodge, & nearly every other company produces a 4 cylinder engine that generates decent TQ. Honda's 4 cylinders seem to be THE ONLY ONES that are completely gutless & focused towards the top end. On tracks with long straights, a Honda might be useful but in urban settings, they have no good TQ for any sort of movement from a stop.
akabane1984 1 year ago
@akabane1984
Gas engines producing tons of TQ? whats your reference to that. I bet per Ltr displacement a Diesel will produce more Tq.
Oh i forget your narrow mind cannot comprehend Ratios... LoL
Honda Gutless? Thats why Subaru needs a Turbo to compete with NA Honda.
Honda Gutless? Thats why Subaru couldnt make a competitive F1 engine in the same class as Honda.
Lol Akabane get a life. You keep loosing and i keep enjoying proving you wrong.
crxdelsolsir 1 year ago
Gas engines do produce good TQ, though obviously not to the extent of a diesel engine. Hell, VW diesels produce good TQ for their size & Audi produces one of the best diesels in the world.
Give me one Honda 4 cyl that produces more TQ than any diesel it's size, let alone any other gas engine it's size & I'll give you a thumbs up.
Hondas are gutless. Extremely gutless. Which is why my Legacy can out run an Integra GSR from stop to top speed in N/A. For a 1.8, Hondas put out terrible TQ numbers.
akabane1984 1 year ago
Have fun trying to disprove what cannot be disproven. Subaru>Honda. End of story. You couldn't even dream your way out of that.
akabane1984 1 year ago
@akabane1984
Already proven Honda is > Subaru. End of Story.
Not a dream but reality.
It does put a smile everytime a review or stats come out showing Honda excelling more than Subaru (Unit Sales, Honda in top 10 cars sold world wide etc etc.)
crxdelsolsir 1 year ago
1:I guess you've never seen the reviews of Subaru owners saying that they would never own any other car. Most of the people in the forum I'm a part of are former Honda owners saying that they would never go back to a Honda. The fact of Subaru>Honda will always remain until Honda steps up their game in the next 20 years or so.
2:And exactly WHAT Honda excelled more than Subaru at? Selling cheap cars for people who can't afford a good one? Wake up. Subaru>Honda in most of everything. Get over it.
akabane1984 1 year ago
@akabane1984
1) Same can be said as plenty of people on Honda forums have had Subaru and now glad to have seen the light and completely happy with their Honda.
2) What has Honda excelled more than Subaru you ask?
Hells more cars than Subaru.
You say Honda is cheap? The NSX was worth more than any premium branded Subaru!
Honda was first before Subaru to have an aluminium chassy
Honda was first before Subaru to have aluminium suspension
Whats your next argument that needs debunking?
crxdelsolsir 1 year ago
1:Wow, selling more cars to people who don't know any better doesn't count as being 'better'. Quality, not quantity determines a good car.
2: The $90K NSX provided performance VERY similar to the $30K STi & it's interior was that of a normal Accord. It didn't even have navigation for that price. It wasn't selling well because 1-It was a 90K Honda=Ridiculous, 2-It couldn't match rivals at that price, & 3-Nobody was going to pay $90K for an Accord with a reversed drivetrain.
akabane1984 1 year ago
@akabane1984
1) I bet you will not say that about Subaru if Subaru was outselling Honda.
Honda has better quality (per JD Powers) than Subaru.
2) For one the NSX was aluminium and STi was not.
Engineering wise the NSX was revolutionary. Your assessment of cars once again is only on numbers and speed. You demonstrate again your lack of engineering understanding. If you do understand engineering you sure demostrate a lack of appreciation.
NSX is way above any Subaru
crxdelsolsir 1 year ago
1:Subaru IS outselling Honda in both the new market & the used market & has been outsellng them in the used market for years :)
2:Honda & Subaru = in reliability per the mechanics who work on them, not the fake ass JD Powers.
3:The NSX was revolutionary in body chassis design & usage of VTEC in it's V6. Subaru was revolutionary in it implementation of AWD, Turbo H4, Twin Turbo H4, & usage of rally technology in it's road cars.
akabane1984 1 year ago
@akabane1984
1) Not globally.
Your thinking locally again
2) Local and personal assessment.
Not the global conclusion.
3) haha.. implementation of AWD? AWD was around in WW2!
Turbo H4? The Turbo was implemented on cars predating Subaru!
Twin Turbo? Porsche already had Twin Turbo!
Audi Quattro was the first AWD, Turbo on a Rally car. Subaru copied.
NSX was revolutionary not just due to chassy design and Vtec implementation but also in its suspension, engine internals and much more.
crxdelsolsir 1 year ago
1:There aren't as many Subarus are there are Hondas in the world but they sell faster.
2:But the logical assessment. Who knows Subaru's better than those who built & own them? Nobody. Especially not some guy who drove in the car for a week. It takes a lot longer than that to understand a car.
3:Subaru was the first to create a twin turbo H4 & the first to use a Boxer for Rally racing. So no, they didn't copy anybody. Besides, by that time, pretty much EVERYONE used a turbo in rally racing.
akabane1984 1 year ago
Subaru>Honda for these reasons:
1-Subaru still has it's designated EJ engine in production for more than 20 years.
2-Subaru has been using 4wd/awd since the 70's & their cars handle much better.
3-Subaru builds RELIABLE turbo engines & transmissions.
Honda has done NONE of these not to mention that no Honda comes with the same features that have been present in a Subaru.
akabane1984 1 year ago
@akabane1984
1) Engine designation is only designation. Has no bearing. But engine advancement does.
Subaru making the same engines only proves its not revolutionary in the engine deparment, unlike Honda.
Honda has made Solar engines, Hybrid engines, Hydrogen Engines and Jet Engines.
Subaru has made none of the above. Subaru is way behind and below Honda Engine wise.
crxdelsolsir 1 year ago
Honda's 4 cylinders get phased out after a few years while Subaru has stuck with 1 mainstream 4 cylinder engine. You're very slow if you think that they haven't been advancing in the past 20+ years. EJ is far more advanced than even Honda's V6s. There is so much that can be done with advancing the EJ that Subaru would be stupid to get rid of it now. TOO many things have been done with that engine in terms of engineering, more than Honda could dream of with any of it's 4 cylinders.
akabane1984 1 year ago
@akabane1984
Sticking to one engine does not mean its a good trait. Actually its the opposite. It shows how slow the engine evolution is or the designation codes are just as radically updated as Honda.
Fact that Honda has more engines powered in more ways than Subaru means Honda is far more active and far more advanced in engine technology than Subaru.
Subaru doesnt even have Hybrids, Hydrogen powered, Jet or Solar powered engines.
Subaru doesnt even compare to Honda Engine wise.
crxdelsolsir 1 year ago
@akabane1984
2) Subaru has been using 4wd/awd since the 70's you say? Well Jeep has been producing 4wd since 1940's.
4wd handles better? Only on certain conditions and for the extra cost of weight and economy to name two. Economy is the more important factor today hence more 2wd cars or cars that can run on 2wd.
Subaru got it wrong by focusing on full time all wheel drive. Hence why they are not introducing selectable AWD. Even they see the falasy of Constant AWD
crxdelsolsir 1 year ago
Guess you've never heard of Subaru's DCCD, which is manual control over the center differential to change the distribution of power from the front or rear wheels or 50/50 lock. You're far behind in Subaru's advancement.
akabane1984 1 year ago
@akabane1984
Only front to back a max of 50/50?
Honda has max 70/30 or 30/70 front to back.
Honda also has active vectoring capabilities to channel power left to right 0-100% and 100-0% which Subaru has yet to have an answer for.
Only Audi has a similar system as Audi (figures as they were first with the Quattro system). As usuall Subaru is behind.
crxdelsolsir 1 year ago
In all of Subaru's cars, constant AWD is employed. Only in it's top performance models do they use DCCD, meaning that the wheel control is more of a sport thing than something to lower gas mileage. Besides, even if you had control of wheel distribution, it would only affect gas mileage very minimal. You'd only gain about 3 or 4 mpg at BEST because of the mechanical drag of the extra AWD parts. Subarus can net extremely good gas mileage with a feather foot.
akabane1984 1 year ago
@akabane1984
3) Honda has not made reliable turbo engines you say?
Contrary to your ill advised comment Honda has been making reliable Turbo engines, albeit formula one. Honda beat Subaru in F1 fair and square with Subaru deemed uncompetitive in the Turbo Era F1.
Honda does build reliable transmission hence the S2000 transmissions hold up while WRX must upgrade to Sti Transmissions as it breaks all the time. Good engineering by Subaru hey... Lol
crxdelsolsir 1 year ago
@akabane1984
Correction. I meant Subaru is NOW introducing selectable AWD (albeit on some cars only).
Other manufactueres eg. Nissan Patrol, Toyota Landcruiser and Mitsubishi Pajero, Honda MDX had selectable modes ages ago. They new constant AWD wastes fuel and is not advantageous all the time hence the need to turn it off.
In actual fact 2wd is more the norm with AWD requirements only on exceptional situations. Subaru is only beginning to learn this. A late Learner.
crxdelsolsir 1 year ago
1:Subaru has had it's DCCD system for years. They didn't just come out with it, they only introduced it for people to use.
2:Constant AWD does not disengage & even the DCCD retains an element of AWD despite a mode selection. This is to maintain stability in case the car slips out of control.
3:Subaru is considered 1 of the masters of AWD, alongside Porsche & Audi. Honda cannot stand next to these 2 brands so don't even argue about that either.
akabane1984 1 year ago
@akabane1984
@akabane1984
3) Subaru doesnt have an answer to Honda's Super Handling AWD system
Honda won lauded by Popular Science as one of the best automotive innovations of 2004, and earned the 2005 - Tech car of the year - from CNET
Only Audi and BMW has any similar system - after Honda i may add
How can i not argue and win when Subaru doesnt even have a similar system
crxdelsolsir 1 year ago
Subaru's DCCD is RALLY DERIVED. This means that it's already gone through the trial & errors of being subjected to rally abuse! LOL! Honda's SH-Awd doesn't have shit on the DCCD, which can transfer full power to front, rear, remain variable, or lock into 50/50 (4wd). Honda's SH-Awd does NOT do all of this. Honda won that award because it uses electromagnetic clutches to split the TQ from front to rear. Subaru AND Audi BOTH do this but they don't use electromagnetism.
akabane1984 1 year ago
@akabane1984
SH-AWD doesnt need to be tested on Rally conditions to say it works. It does and Subaru has no equivalent.
DCCD cannot do what the SH-AWD can which is shift power left to right (as well as front to back)
Subaru cannot compare to Honda when they dont even have a similar system.
SH-Awd can do what the DCCD can do yet even exceed the 50/50 dist to 30/70 or 70/30. Greater power transfer capability.
crxdelsolsir 1 year ago
1:You think that Honda came out with the idea of Yaw Control (Side to Side TQ distribution)? Mitsubishi's been using it TO KEEP UP WITH the Subaru's AWD because it's THAT DAMN GOOD.
2:I guess you missed where I said DCCD can distribute power to the front (70-30), rear (30-70), become variable, or 4WD (50/50).
3:Subaru wasn't designed with yaw control but with way it performs, it definitely doesn't need it & PLEASE don't compare them again...
4:You can stop with Honda now. You're losing badly...
akabane1984 1 year ago
@akabane1984
1) Hence Mitsubishis AWD is better than Subaru since Subaru has no Yaw control.
2) DCCD cannot shift as much as Honda. Max front wheel drive effect of DCCD is only 35 front 65 rear (Honda 70 front 30 rear). Max rear wheel drive effect of DCCD is 50/50 (Honda 30 front 70 rear).
DCCD cannot even shift power left and right. Honda has got Subaru system beat.
If Subaru had it Honda would not have won international awards and world first innovation by it.
Your the one that lost.
crxdelsolsir 1 year ago
1:Evo & STi are dead even. Mitsubishi's AWD system is ON PAR with Subaru's DCCD, both of which exceed Honda's SH-AWD.
2:STi's transmission is one of the toughest & most reliable transmissions to ever exist. Honda's SH-AWD is already starting to have problems. No comparison.
3:DCCD is a rally created system. SH-AWD is not. Also, your info is very wrong about the DCCD. Mine's is taken directly from Subaru.
akabane1984 1 year ago
@akabane1984
1) Evo has better AWD since it has Yaw control.
Honda SHAWD combines Yaw control (like EVO) and power shift capabilities (like the DCCD) in the one package. No equivalent from Subaru .
2) Problems will occur & expected from any new technology. In any case its not a problem (as Honda is innovative & continuously improving).
WRX also had many tranny problems and had to upgrade to Sti trannys. Comming from a supposed rally experience & years of AWD use that is shocking.
crxdelsolsir 1 year ago
Yaw control doesn't make EVO's AWD better. That is complete & utter ridiculousness. Honda's SH-AWD copies both Mitsu & Subaru yet fails to meet THEIR standards, not the other way around. Get it right. Without the use of electromagnets, the SH-AWD would just barely be an acceptable AWD system. The system is also more complex & much heavier than Subaru & Mitsu's systems for no reason at all. Doesn't really make a good application for a sports car to use.
akabane1984 1 year ago
1:Subaru is innovative & continuously improving too. Which is why it only needs one type of engine to power most of it's cars instead of 8 like Hondas do.
2:WRXs actually have very good transmissions. The problem with those is that the WRX is a badass street car that people just feel the need to beat on. Unfortunately, the trannies were made for street use, not racing.
3:I KNOW you're not talking about transmissions when Honda can't build a good one to save it's life. Most of THEIR trannies suck
akabane1984 1 year ago
@crxdelsolsir Big deal. Science. It's 2010. Honda hasn't made anything innovative; neither created anything new.
KuroShinigami 1 year ago
@KuroShinigami
You expect a development every year?! Are you serious?
Anyway because Honda is a leader in technology, not just engines look at the SH-AWD innovation. It was the "worlds first" torque vectoring four wheel drive system! With awards from Popular Science as one of the best automotive innovations of 2004, and earned the 2005 "Tech car of the year" from CNET
No equivalent from Subaru.
Honda has the FCX Clarity Hydrogen powered- 1st in US. No equiv from Subaru.
Your wrong.
crxdelsolsir 1 year ago
1:Subaru does NOT have airbag defects! LOL! Where the hell did you get THAT from!?
2:Only 2008 Subarus have rod failures & those engines are being replaced. For free. Btw, my Legacy has not 1 strip of paint peeled off of it.
3:N/A Subarus destroy Honda N/As in city driving. They can't accelerate for shit. Any N/A Subaru 2L+ has over 150ft-lbs @ LOW rpm. Hondas can barely make over that at HIGH rpm. Go figure.
akabane1984 1 year ago
@crxdelsolsir
A seat belt and an airbag is minor? You're nuts. Even if I wasn't a fanboy, that's just stupid to think that seatbelt or an airbag defects is minor. I use to own a 1993 Accord, so I know. Let's see how minor it is when you don't have a working seatbelt or airbag and you get into a wreck. Also to say Subaru without a turbocharger has less torque is completely false. Have you seen the HP/TQ numbers from a USDM 2000 RS on a dyno? I have, it's got more torque than a stock Type R.
v8subie 1 year ago
Minor as in easy fix. Seat belts are 15 min fix and an airbag is modularised 10min tops to change.
Not from a safety stand point but from a rectification point you d*ck.
crxdelsolsir 1 year ago
@ V8subie
Quote me where i said Subaru had less torque? Your putting words in my mouth. Typical looser arguing technique.
crxdelsolsir 1 year ago
@crxdelsolsir
"
crxdelsolsir (5 days ago)
@NOP
Honda Defects are minor compared to Subaru. (power window switch and airbag)
Subar Defects are MAJOR - Rod failures, head gasket failuress, Paint peeling after 1 Yr!! Engine manufacuring temporarily stopped etc
With class actions against Subaru hence the stoppage of manufacturing!!!
NSX has a very flat torque curve for an NA
Subaru Without Turbo is a torqueless wonder that cant even compete with Honda!"
NOPN 1 year ago
@crxdelsolsir
Read this sentence that I quoted:
crxdelsolsir
1 month ago
@NOPN
NSX has a very flat torque curve for an NA
Subaru Without Turbo is a torqueless wonder that cant even compete with Honda!
You are a typical loser that's fucks himself with your own hand, that's so far up your ass you are using it as a means to talk shit with it. I'm not a fanboy. I love all cars for what they are worth, but when someone like you who cites shit from the internet than off hand knowledge, it's sad.
v8subie 1 year ago
@crxdelsolsir
Get a life
v8subie 1 year ago
@v8subie
I do. Maybe you should.
crxdelsolsir 1 year ago
@v8subie
First hand knowldege is a Subaru WRX without a Turbo is essentially an Impreza
No factory NA 2.0 or 2.5 ltr Impreza has even beaten a factory spec S2000, NSX or Type R Civic or Type R Integra or Accord Type R or any older Honda SiR
Subaru needs a turbo to even be competitive
Subaru cannot compete without a turbo hence why no NA subaru competes with other manufacturers purelye on an NA stand point. Because N/A tkes alot more engineering which Subaru is not competitive enough to make
crxdelsolsir 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@crxdelsolsir
Quote me where i said Subaru had less torque? Your putting words in my mouth. Typical looser arguing technique.
crxdelsolsir
1 month ago
@NOPN
NSX has a very flat torque curve for an NA
Subaru Without Turbo is a torqueless wonder that cant even compete with Honda!
v8subie 1 year ago
You're stupid. My Legacy is a LOT better and faster than any USDM Si, which is equivalent to any international SiR & I'd love to show you personally that you're full of shit.
Legacy n/a's are equal or better to Accords & the turbocharged one make more power than Type Rs do. This is a limit to how much you can do with N/A. Power is power, it doesn't matter how it's made so stop bitching about turbo vs n/a. Power is power.
akabane1984 1 year ago
@akabane1984
USDM Si is not the same as an SiR ... Lol
Its like saying the US Sti is the same as the Japanese Sti.. its not.
Im not full of shit you are. Power is not just power. Its how its made. Focusing just on power means nothing as a Honda Jet engine makes more power than any Subuar Turbo engine.
Honda making NA cars rivaling Turbo is much more innovative and impresive than a Turbo car which has an induction advantage and already expected to be be powerful.
crxdelsolsir 1 year ago
1:A civic is a civic & a CRX is a CRX. I'm not going to hype them up because whether they are DOHC or SOHC, NEITHER of them are making any REAL power down low where is matters. I mean, they have a hell of a powerband to play with but where's the power? LOL!
2:Power is power because as long as it does what it's supposed to, what else matters? And a Turbo Subaru h4 makes more power than any of Honda's I4s. Power is power.
3:Yeah, 300hp N/As can be impressive until they face a 500hp turbo.
akabane1984 1 year ago
@NOP
F1 removed turbo as its a cop out way of making power and a recognition NA is more difficult and require higher engineering ingenuity.
Subaru needing a turbo shows it has no engineering ingenuity to compete against an NA Honda.
Have an NA Honda vs NA Subaru and the Honda will wax and rape the Subaru anyday.
Subaru having Turbo and AWD going against an NA and 2WD vehicle is not unique its a set up advantage!! Moron hence the suggestion to take it off to play on even rules.
crxdelsolsir 1 year ago
F1/FIA likes to cut costs. So NA is the way to go, to reduce costs.
Honda having no turbo shows they have engineering ingenuity, 100hp/L with only 197hp is boring.
Turbo Subaru vs Turbo Honda, the subaru will rape the Honda anyday.
Play off on even rules? You're all 'what if the honda did this and the subaru did this' when in reality you have 2 different cars and 2 drivers that want to race each other; and you making excuses when the honda takes the L
NOPN 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@ NOPN
FIA going NA is not to cut costs...hahaha...your a douche. Any F1 person knows why they made the switch and its not due to costs. Educate yourself on F1 before making false statements.
Subaru had a chance in going against Honda in F1 (with turbo) but they failed, just like your argument.
As you said 2 diff cars 2 diff set up so this doesnt prove anything. Would call a Turbo Honda vs NA Subaru race even? Im sure you won't
crxdelsolsir 1 year ago
Reality is Subaru failed in F1 where Honda excelled. Shows trully which manufacturer is superior
crxdelsolsir 1 year ago
@crxdelsolsir What those this has to do with this video??? Dumbass
Viperfet 1 year ago
If you cant get your head around it then dont ask. You obviously cant make your brain work. Sh*t for brains.
crxdelsolsir 1 year ago
@crxdelsolsir
Reality is you think the spectacular failure of the Honda F1 team is 'excelling'...what high standards you have!
NOPN 1 year ago
@NOPN
By your comment you obviously dont know that Honda has been in F1 before their recent involvement. They didnt have a spectacular failure in F1as they have already proved themselves and have gained respect since the 1960's you noob.
crxdelsolsir 1 year ago
@NOPN
Honda powered winning cars, teams and constructors championships with Lotus, McLaren, Tyrrell and Williams and Six Constructors Championships.
If you think Honda that is a failure in spectacular form how about Subaru in F1!!
No Constructor wanted Subaru engines!! The only one that did regretted it. Subaru failed to even take a podium win (that is how competitive F1 is).
Your argument fails and you backing Subaru shows you have NO Standards!
crxdelsolsir 1 year ago
LOL. Like a 3 - 88 record is something respectable. Honda is an engine supplier, thats it. Not good enough to be an F1 team. Subaru went on to suceed in WRC, while honda stayed and failed in F1 further more.
NOPN 1 year ago
@NOPN
Fact that both Toyota and Subaru have had successes in WRC yet both did not find success in F1 goes to show how F1 is much more competitive than WRC.
crxdelsolsir 1 year ago
@crxdelsolsir
Not really, it means their technology is better suited to WRC. Not to mention the organizational success of Toyota and Subaru. They took the lead role, and succeeded. While neither did well in F1, they are icons in WRC. However, being an engine supplier like Honda doesn't put it on the same level as say Ferrari. They had limited success in F1 and none in WRC. What happened to the JWRC CTR??
NOPN 1 year ago
@crxdelsolsir subaru never even tried for F1, learn the facts kid they never had a formula project heck they even stopped funding WRC like hyundai and many more, like BMW stopped funding their F1 project and dropped out, learn the FACTS!
willwork4superpowazz 1 year ago