Mother Angelica on... Seven Last Words of Christ - Part 1 (3/29/95)

[NotreDameCatholic90]

Mother Angelica is amazing!!!

[loggats]

These comments should be censored, some of them are pure filth.

[LetReasonPrevail1]

Are you meaning my comments? If yes, in what way are they "pure filth"?

I didn't use any profantiy, nor did I name call.

However, I very strongly objected to her wallowing in the retelling of the torture of another human being, and I also called-out the immoral preaching that one can have their sins wiped clean via the torture of another. I say again, this is a positively hideous doctrine that is antithetical to morality which must be based on personal responsibility.

[loggats]

@LetReasonPrevail1 moron.

[LetReasonPrevail1]

@loggats Thank you for showing that you have absolutely NOTHING of merit to offer.

All you can seemingly say is, "She's an old Nun, therefore, what she says is necessarily lovely and is beyond rebuke".

What rubbish.

The stupid, it hurts....

[loggats]

@LetReasonPrevail1 respect for the lifetime's wisdom of certain people is important in our society, yes. just because you think she presents nothing of value doesn't necessarily make it so - we are free to listen. when you (mis)characterize that contribution or use it as a platform for your own ideas, a line is crossed. your behavior is "positively hideous" and your statements are antithetical to seasoned and mutually respectful debate or discussion. Find somewhere else for your grandstanding.

[LetReasonPrevail1]

Man, this is painful stuff.

How have a mischaracterized what she says? I very specifically said that she is talking with absolute certainty about things she can not possibly know. She might believe them to be true, but this is not the same as knowledge of something's truthfulness.

And I would respect you intellectually if you would just provide a single shread of an idea beyond the logically fallacious non-sequitor: "I don't like your attitude, therefore, you're wrong"

Seriously?

[LetReasonPrevail1]

And I must say, that I find it deliciously ironic that you are characterizing me as the socially abhorent one, considering the fact that I am the one who is asserting that the celebration of a human being's torture & murder is immoral & unethical

Unknowingly, you are saying: "No, it isn't! The torture & murder of the 1st century Jewish prophet, Jesus, was a loving celebration of god's perfect love & foregiveness"

...yea, or he could have simply said, "I forgive you for not being perfect" Hmm.

[loggats]

@LetReasonPrevail1 He actually did say that. "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do."

It's deliciously ironic (but infinitely sad) how closely those words correspond to your attitude, over two thousand years later.

[LetReasonPrevail1]

OK, let's dissect you latest bit of illogic.

First, the triune god concept posits that god the father, son & holy spirit are in actuality the same being, so it makes no sense for Jesus to ask himself to forgive his executioners, instead he should simply say "I" forgive them.

However, it still makes no sense for him to forgive them, since his execution is supposedly a necessary action, so instead he should be thanking them for killing him.

[LetReasonPrevail1]

This passage in Mark points to the fact that the author of the Gospel of Mark likely did not consider Jesus to be god, thus Mark's author did not believe or even understand the Triune god concept as even being a possibility

Jesus was the son of god and nothing more. It isn't until the much later Gospel of John that Jesus is represented as God incarnate

Also, Mark (the earliest gospel) makes no mention of the virgin birth

In Jewish tradition, there were many "sons of gods", such as King David

[loggats]

@LetReasonPrevail1 you are coming at this as though there were some kind of argument between equals - you have little real knowledge of catholic theology, and yet you pretend that you do! Also, you conflate earlier traditions that are now understood in a fuller light by the Church, as though they were still valid positions.

Get back to the books if you want to present something of value. Thanks,

[LetReasonPrevail1]

I love how instead of actually addressing my point, you meekly reply with "you have little real knowledge of catholic theology".

Not only is this yet again a substanceless statement, but it also presumes that catholic theology is correct. Sorry, but you might have allowed for that presumption to infect your critical thinking, but mine is unencumbered by such logical nonsense.

Can you actually defend a single point with anything that even remotely resembles sound logic or good evidence?

[LetReasonPrevail1]

Further, the "newer" understandings provided by the Church that you elude to presume the gospels must be harmonious, thus their logic again is flawed from the start as it presumes that which it must in fact be logically proven.

Thus, I fail to see any good reason why the gospels should not be examined individually. When this is done, they each paint a different understanding of who jesus was & is presented to be.

[LetReasonPrevail1]

Your entire field of theology is logically fallacious as it starts with the conclusion, then spends all it's efforts back-filling the premises. It is mental masturbation & nothing more

And don't get me started on the other catholic nuggets of logic like the triune god, immaculate conception, or transfiguration. These logical gems are enough to drop anyone's IQ by at least 50 points

So I agree this isn't a discourse of equals, as you already have two preverbial arms tied behind your brain

[1980kyboy]

@loggats these people are idiots. if u arent their denomination then your going to hell. this person sits an tells how wrong catholics are bla bla. he probably is a freewill baptists well dressed, speaks proper, been a deacon for 20 years, and after church on sundays he goes home an masturbates to child pornography. LOL

[LetReasonPrevail1]

So besides resorting to what amounts to a logically fallacious appeal to outrage, do you have anything of actual substance to offer in retort?

Or is the best you have to proivde nothing more than an intellectual temper tantrum?

Hmmm?

[LetReasonPrevail1]

It's sickening how much she relishes the retelling of the turtore that Jesus supposedly went through.

Further, she has NO WAY of knowing if ANY of this is true. All of this is pure conjecture on her part.

Finally, it is morally repungnant to think you can gain forgiveness for yourself vicariously through the torture of another person.

Shame on you, Mother Angelica for spewing forth such rubbish.

[loggats]

@LetReasonPrevail1 This is our faith. You can respectfully oppose it, or use a bunch of moronic rhetoric to show how insensitive and stupid you are. I guess you opted for the latter.

[LetReasonPrevail1]

@loggats What was moronic about what I said?

What did I say that was rhetorical in nature?

Do you feel that in the name of faith you should be allowed to profess any belief no matter how evil, illogical or pathetic?

I shouldn't have to point this out to you, but Mother Angelica made the decision to pronounce her thoughts in a very public forum, so she should expect any & all critiques of her musings.

Or do you feel that her beliefs are immune from review?

[loggats]

@LetReasonPrevail1 youre/beneath/contempt.get/bac­k/to/flipping/burgers

[witchcraftlover]

@LetReasonPrevail1 what the hell is wrong with you? she didnt make the story up. She happens to find inner peace in Catholicism. and she is a good person who doesnt deserve your mean comments. Live and let live.

[LetReasonPrevail1]

What is wrong with me you ask?

The simple fact is, she speaks about something for which she has NO IDEA about its truth. That in and of itself if intellectually idiotic.

Further, I say again, that she is wallowing in the description of another person being tortured & murdered.

That fact that it was "Jesus" is irrelevant to me.

You should ask yourself why talk of torturing a human named Jesus somehow gives you all "warm & fuzzies" inside.

This is sick stuff. Wake up.

[witchcraftlover]

@LetReasonPrevail1 it is not sick stuff . but in case you did not know, throughout History people worshipped Gods that sacrificed themselves for them. Like Horus and Mithras and more recently the Horned God. It is human need to feel important enough that a God would die for us. it gives us a relationship with that energy. my point is, its human.

[LetReasonPrevail1]

Thanks for a response that provides actual insight & something for me to consider. I appreciate your input.

I agree that god-worship is a basic, human condition, but that doesn't make it correct, justified, good or true.

Similarly, we all as children anthropamorphize shadows in the closet & sounds from the next room as monsters, but this commonality we share doesn't make these assertions in the least bit accurate.

Would you agree with this logical point?

[LetReasonPrevail1]

Regarding the sickness of the doctrine of vicarious redemption, I find this concept utterly abhorent.

All serious attempts at ethics & morality must necessarily start with taking full responsibility for our actions & the idea that our failures & transgressions can be "wiped clean" by the torture & murder of another human being is simply disgusting.

The fact that this realization is uncomfortable for most believers is irrelevant.

It's time for us to grow up.

Your thoughts?

[LetReasonPrevail1]

People spend their entire lives incessantly obessing over that fact that this person, Jesus, was tortured and murdered, thus THEY magically get to spend forever in paradise.

What a grotesque way to obtain your admission into paradise.

And what do these clerics tell you if you object this "offer" of paradise by way of a human's torture & murder?

"Well, you can go to hell then!"

Excuse me? Sod off, I say.

What say you? Do you have anything of merit to add?

[loggats]

@LetReasonPrevail1 You know, you really need to be addressing these issues to God. Sometimes the grotesque is more real than all the artificial beauty you can impose on the world.

[LetReasonPrevail1]

You said, "Sometimes the grotesque is more real than all the artificial beauty you can impose on the world"

Is worthless poetic rhetoric all you can muster?

That's about as worthless as "God is love" and "Jesus is the word become flesh"

Nothing but flowery, mumbo jumbo, jibberish.

Can't you actually state one thing of substance?

And "Talk to god"?

Give me a break.

The stupid, it still hurts...

[loggats]

@LetReasonPrevail1 you hate poetry... that's got to be hell right there.

[LetReasonPrevail1]

My "lord" this is hilarious. I've never encountered someone so consistently obtuse

I never even faintly implied that I hate poetry. I specfically called BS on your use of poetic language DISGUISED AS an objective observation.

Feel free to recite poetry all you want, just don't pretend it illuminates any sort of objective truth about the world

Sorry, but the religious don't have a monopoly on the artistic, luminous, or transcendent. These are all common, shared HUMAN experiences

[loggats]

@LetReasonPrevail1 what do you know of humanity? your total hysterical hatred of religion denies thousands of years of human religious expression, in all media and by every experience. You don't even think it's worth respecting those modes of understanding the world: you're ignorant, and arrogant. There can't be dialogue with people like you, people who have given up their humanity and foster hatred and pride in their hearts. Nobody cares whether or not you believe in God - respect those who do.

[velundstucko]

Mother we LOVE you! The people of the world THANK YOU FOR EWTN!!!

Wishin' you a Blessed and Happy Easter!

God bless ~

Catholic Cathy :o)

[wesselbindt]

3:30

That right there, was a moment of pure sensuality.