God's sovereignty, Human responsibility: 1tmoch dialogues

[SicilianOedipus]

if god gave man free will, what specific words would one expect to find in the bible?

[travismification]

I think Paul Washer would give a different view of what this guy is saying.

[blakodeel]

God predestines, we make those choices that we willingly make, then we are held accountable. The ones that condemned Jesus to the cross did it out of the hatred of their hearts just as we do things out of the depravity that was always within us. Every thing that God predestines is ultimately for His deserved glory, and the redemption of His people. God's use of secondary means or evil to accomplish this in the end in no way makes God guilty of sinning or the depravity itself. Seemple

[CBALLEN]

No matter what's decreed by God,everyone who willfully sins knows what they are doing is wrong.God tells believers to always obey and get the facts from His word,because He makes known to us that He is going to cause the world a great delusion so that they will believe a lie that they want to believe,even more.This is where Christians get in trouble,some join in and are caught up in the lie meant for the goats.Evolution is one I can think of right off the top of my head.

[malikzzzzz]

God is all knowing. Just because He knows the ending before the beginning doesn't mean He's going to change it. On a side note, God made man perfect in His image so if you want to blame anyone, blame Eve and then Adam for sinning and bringing damnation on the entire human race outside of Christ.

[animecrazy470]

why does adam and eve get the privilege of choosing the fates of all human generations really cause if ur saying that they had a choice to make the right decision then why couldn't any of us be there instead of them, other people would've took it more seriously but since we'll never know

[animecrazy470]

point we had no say in the matter then because we weren't there so they adam and eve set the forces in motion

[animecrazy470]

okay how can i be responsible for adam and eve if they decided by themselves and acted alone their decision to make the wrong choice they both knew better come on it's like blaming u because i stole something if u were my uncle, if a criminal robs a bank does his relatives get blames for it and if so how because they had to say in the matter, so everything was undoubtedly decided upon 2 people we couldn't do anything about it

[1tmoch]

@FujiwaraNoGo Actually, sociopaths tailor quite well to their own happiness. Oh, do you care to go down the fallacious road of utilitarianism? Suffering is actually quite a good thing when it tells me something is wrong in my body. The only thing you have done is raised more questions, of which you cannot answer authoritatively. All you can do is give your auto-biography, but then who gives a rip? Great, Fuji thinks this, someone else thinks that.

[skoobalon]

@1tmoch

You sound so smart.

BIG BABY!

ZACK LOOKS LIKE JESUS!

[1tmoch]

@skoobalon Huh? What you talking bout Willis?

[Kapitananime]

You have no CHOICE and are BLAMELESS if God made you to be evil before the Earth was created.

God is creating all evil if he created Satan and Sin as well as knowing before a

person does evil. This person on the Mike is wrong and should be ignored.

[theocratickingdom30]

I'm not getting the confusion. Why can't God, for His own ends, choose to use the evil of man to bring Himself glory? He knows they'll be corrupt. So what is wrong with bringing them into the world in order to reveal His various attributes as Romans 9 indicates? Secondly, when this kid lies or looks at a woman in lust can that kid honestly say he's not the one committing that sin?

[TheReformedapologist]

@FujiwaraNoGo Can you tell me where on the clock he said that in this video?

[VeryImagesozo]

I wonder if the preordained murder of Christ or the preordained actions of Joseph's brothers is confussing to the individual that is confussed on how we can be blamed for choices if God preordains things. Predestination is true. To ignore it, is to ignore a major portion of scripture.

[lieberR1]

I think all things are preordained. God does not have a god above Him called 'lady luck' whereby He hopes things go His way.

Even the most heinous activities of a man are restrained by the grace of God. God just gives people over to what their hearts really want, while using them it for His good purposes. Further, man should have been wiped off the planet and sent to hell with no escape plan in Christ. So everyday that goes by where the wicked live on is of God's grace and mercy.

[MandrewP]

Man's actions are the same as God's actions, for God is the creator of man. Whatever man does is what God does. The difference is in the motive for the action, that is where God and man part. God meant it for good, but man meant it for evil. Man is accountable for his motives, which are revealed by his actions.

God and man are one when it comes to the action, but different in the motive.

[orochimaru7777777]

Pharaoh always had a choice, everyone does, to not to is to take away our free agency, but god knew pharoah wouldn't let the isrealites go. Pharoah is responsible, but his son was taken not only to punish Pharoah, but to save his son. Save him from the empire that egypt was becoming, and from the wickedness surrounding him.

[musicbox2345]

As far as Pharaoh could tell he had 2 choices, he could have chosen to let them go, even though God knew he couldn't. I think that's why Pharaoh was responsible.

[musicbox2345]

In Exodus4 God tells Moses to command Pharoah to let the people go, but God will harden Pharaoh's heart so that Pharaoh won't let them go. Pharaoh had to refuse, since God hardened his heart. It was NOT a free choice.

But mustn't Pharaoh still be responsible since God killed Pharaoh's firstborn son as a result of his disobedience?

I don't fully understand it myself but that's what the Bible seems to say. Proverbs 3:5 tells us to "lean NOT on our own understanding"!

[musicbox2345]

Exodus4:21-23: The LORD said to Moses, “When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go. 22 Then say to Pharaoh, ‘This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son, 23 and I told you, “Let my son go, so he may worship me.” But you refused to let him go; so I will kill your firstborn son.’”

[musicbox2345]

We do have choices BUT what we want to choose has been decided. How are we responsible? It's a puzzling question but I think this is a good illustration:

 Someone asks which door you want to walk through - red or green? You choose red because you want to choose red, even though you could, as far as you knew, have choosen green.

However GOD always knew you would choose red and the green door was an illusion, even though YOU thought both were real and thought you could choose either one.

[adsloganville]

I thought you did a pretty good job in your answer to this guy. On a surface level it might seem like the Bible teaches free will, but if we study the scriptures carefully, I think the Calvinist position is more faithful to the Bible. I think the guy's question is exactly addressed in Romans 9. How can God blame us if we can't thwart his will? That was exactly his question.

[Creationcreed]

I think 1tmoch did well in explaining this with what he know right now: or how he understands it thus far. Sometimes we do have to change our views/doctrine that we hold dear, or atleast take a second examination of whether this or that doctrine is actually in the Bible. Both sides aren't lazy when it comes to studying this topic though.

[Creationcreed]

That aspect of calvinism is one I question. The question doesn't even have to appeal to emotion. Logic says God is responsible for all evil or good(these are choices....by God). Noone actually DESERVES punishment: it's unmerited. That is not confusing as far as the honest conclusion. Unmerit Salvation and Unmerited Damnation. Is it in scripture uumm I question that as well. Scripture acts as if we are meriting Salvation or Damnation by OUR choices, not preprogrammed by God to choose those things

[KingKumaForever]

Hmmmm don't think you answered the boys question well.

[1tmoch]

@KingKumaForever What would you have added to this answer?

[granjitsingh]

Romans 9:22-23 (English Standard Version)

22What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—

[reformedman]

This is terrible.

[1tmoch]

@reformedman What is terrible, is someone who leaves a lame comment like yours, and doesn't suggest what would have made something not "terrible." So what is it, that should have been said, hmmm?

[1tmoch]

@Dunnization We have a say from our perspective, but in the infinite plan of God, things are fixed to happen a certain way. Since we are finite, we don't know what that plan is, and we still make choices, unawares many times of the things which operate behind those choices. We do what we want, but the problem is with the want. Ya, i've studied this issue for a long time, and can only conclude the more i learn, how this is consistently biblical. I can't avoid it. I have more vids on the topic.

[Dunnization]

@1tmoch

Certain things yes are preordained but not everything, and certainly not our actions. We don't know the infinite plan only this Earthly plan and what John wrote about. Like your friends say that an atheist may interpret it one way, a Christian another, a Muslim another, etc... etc... I appreciate you commewnting back by the way. I want to speak with you about Evolution if you get a chance I have alot of questions and I sent you a message earlier.

[1tmoch]

@Dunnization Well, i let the bible speak for itself, and as i said, i have shown how every last detail is planned by God. No room here to go into detail, but if you are interested, see my vids on the topic. I have about 15 vids on this issue. As far as evolution, i also have a multitude of videos on that subject. Perhaps the easiest way to see them all is to type in "1tmoch evolution" as a search option. Probably, around 30 videos or more.

[Dunnization]

@1tmoch

Yeah I have watched a good bit of those videos and I watch videos from you daily I guess. I have specific questions everyday you know? I constantly think of things and your videos won't address alot of them.

[Dunnization]

@1tmoch

If I send you some questions would you be able to answer them at your convenience?

[1tmoch]

@Dunnization Sure. Shoot them my way. I'll try my best.

[Dunnization]

@1tmoch

Alright cool, I'll have to gather some good ones. Some guy called fivepointbaptist was bashing on the guy who goes out with you Wayne. He made a video called ''Wayne blows it again'' or soemthing like that check it out.

[1tmoch]

@Dunnization Actually, it is fivepointbaptist who goes out with us from time to time, not Wayne. I'm not even sure what state Wayne lives in.

[Dunnization]

@1tmoch

God doesn't preordain our actions we have a choice to do whatever we want. I had a choice to accept Jesus and I did, I have a choice to type on this computer and comment on this video but God had no part in that. He doesn't manipulate me to conform I have to choose to love him and that's what he wants.

[stonewall97]

Nope, i believe in free will. God is not the author of sin. So the Homosexual is fated to be that way. so why would it be just for God to send that Homo to hell????? Calvinists beliefs are very confusing.

[VeryImagesozo]

This obsession people have with freewill is mindboggling. They don't seem to understand what freewill is. A free-will is a sovereign will. If we are sovereign in our will, then God is not sovereign in his will. If God is sovereign in is will, then we are not sovereign in our will. Our will is not free, but controlled by sin or in subjection to Christ. God decrees all according to his will, and all of it works toward good for His bride the church (Romans 8:28).