The Continuing Catastrophe - 24 May 08 - Part 1

[TARASTWO2]

What the Zionist criminals, for all their money, power and supposedly high intelligence, do not see is that the mass retaliation against innocent Palestinian children, women and men will come back to haunt and destroy any semblance of legitimacy of the illegitimately occupied state of Israel.

[Aboulafiah]

"Palistine belongs to the Palestinians. Both Jewish, Muslim and Christian Palis. Not European Jews." from Sana.

Sorry to disappoint you but the land does not belong to its inhabitants. Arabs and Jews are no exception. That is neither an Arab nor a Jewish land. This land belongs like the rest of the creation to the Creator. Now Sana do not be mistaken, "Palestine" has always been until 1964 a geographical notion, not a political concept. No multicultural Palestinian nation ever existed before.

[Aboulafiah]

Thx for your response Sana by the way.

With respect to the $3 billion, that is a lot of money wasted on Palestinian leaders who never helped their people build an economy or an efficient educational system. This is to me THE catastrophe: destroying value instead of creating value, choosing death over life, the blame game over critical thinking. Nevertheless, Palestinian Arabs in Israel are getting an education and I'm sure will be the best advocates of the Palestinian cause in a few years.

[Aboulafiah]

Dear Sana,

if you check your facts you'll find that arab host nations has been receiving tremendous amounts of money from the US. It is actually the most US subsidized country in the world. Now, the UNRWA unlike most of the other UN agencies is focused on Arab Palestinian issues only. It employs 17,000 people and had already costed in 1986 USD 2,939,774,915 (nearly $3 billion).

[Aboulafiah]

Sorry I mixed up my text, I meant the following:

if you check your facts you'll find that arab host nations have been receiving tremendous amounts of money from the US. Egypt is actually the most US subsidized country in the world.

[mbadr87]

could u plz name a source stating that egypt is the most US subsidized country of the world??

[Aboulafiah]

Thx for your question. Egypt is actually the SECOND-most US subsidized country in the world ($2billion a year) behind Israel, as stated in the following document:

"IDEALS VS. REALITY IN HUMAN RIGHTS AND U.S. FOREIGN POLICY: THE CASES OF AZERBAIJAN, CUBA, AND EGYPT" HEARING BEFORE THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS, HUMAN RIGHTS, AND OVERSIGHT OF THE COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

ONEHUNDRED TENTH CONGRESS FIRST SESSION JULY 12, 2007 Serial No. 110--84

[sana6]

2)it received from the west during the 50s. whereas, the arab host nations received no aid, UMWR reports state. And on top of that they were underoing eco-socio-political tormoil. Syria 17 coup d'etat, and Egypt fighting the british. And Britain and AL Jazeera? We are the Briton's enemy and YOU are the allies. thats why they allowed you to immigrate. Palistine belongs to the Palestinians. Both Jewish, Muslim and Christian Palis. Not European Jews.

[johnknoefler]

so America should kick out all the arabs we have here?

Do Jews have a right to Return?

Israel recieved no aid from USA until after 67. Most of the Aid Israel recieved was from Wealthy Jews in other countries. Mostly from AMerican Jews. And I would say Gassing and torturing and slaughtering millions of Jews in Germany and poland and other german occupied nations was violence enough.

[Aboulafiah]

Tell me who serves better the land? Who builds, adds value, creates wealth and grows fruits in the desert? Is that a demonstration of commitment, love and bond with the land and/or to the Creator? Does it demonstrate a stronger and deeper connection between the Jews and this land? I am inclined to think so.

[Aboulafiah]

It is fair to say though that the land belongs to none of its numerous successive inhabitants. Arabs and Jews are no exception. That is not an Arab or a Jewish land.

[Aboulafiah]

The last that have been defeated, the Britons, now try to undermine their ex-enemy by creating arab-biaised channels such as AlJazeera (more or less an extension of the BBC), a TV channel capable of building an entire programme on a consensual idea in the ME that the 14 May 1948 is a catastrophe.

[Aboulafiah]

Interesting narratives really to which I would like to add comments: the sequence of events in the last 35 centuries on that piece of land shows that a number of peoples conquered the region and then were defeated. There is cyclical pattern.

[prettyobserver]

Racist comments like Israel will be nuked are not helpful.

However, Zionist Israel's refusal to accept responsibility for the catastrophe, and Israel's refusal to dismantle illegal settlements are the single biggest obstacles to peace.

Why should neigboring states have to take in refugees? Israel created this mess and should clean it up.

[johnnyoilboy]

Israel will be nuked of the map

jews are not human they must all be killed

i want to drink the blood of every jewish man women and child on the planet

we must nuke israel and libreate our motherland

[johnnyoilboy]

Israel will be nuked of the map

allah will return to earth and will show no mercy to you white infaldels

[johnknoefler]

What of the attacks by the arabs on Jews? HMMM? the commentator makes no mention of it. so much for unbiased reporting.

[johnknoefler]

Sana6 America accepts millions of refugees from around the world. They integrate without exception. All of them. Lebanon to this day has not granted Palistinian Arabs citizenship or right to work. ANd why are they stil in Refugee camps? An equal number of Jews fled arab lands to Israel after 1948 and ALL were integrated and treated with equality. Arabian nations could do the same if so desired.

[BamenYaros]

More jews fled actually.

[sana6]

I don't know about Lebanon, but the other host nations Syria, Jordan, and Egypt have integrated the pal refs. Look at the UNWR reports and I have met many. and how can a country lik lebanon help them out,when they have a $40 billion debt. An equal number of jews decided to leave for Israel after 48. The more than equal number of palis did not choose to leave their lands. Palis=Refs with right to return. Attack on Jews? Hm, what of the jewish militias occupying all Arab cities b4 end of mandate.

[sana6]

and 2, the majority of the 4.6 million pal refugees are refugees within the "state" of palestine. And i already explained why they are still refugees. Only a minority of the 4.6 million were able to go to other arab states. The ones in lebanon were driven out of northern palestine. Violence did happen aganist, but contrary to what Israeli govt says, its hisorians assert it was an intensified moral obligation. And Israel received billions of $ and thats why it was able to integrate them.

[Aboulafiah]

Sana6 you're not clear: what di you mean by Violence did happen aganist, but contrary to what Israeli govt says, its hisorians assert it was an intensified moral obligation. And Israel received billions of $ and thats why it was able to integrate them."

[sana6]

lol! thats exactly what i said earlier!

[sana6]

Violence did happen aganist the jews in arab land, the feeling of insecurity of the jews were jusitifed. But the worst arab violence was nothing compared to the mild russian monogroms- thats what the Israel historians say. And this wave of immigration was catalyzed by moral obligation to build a jewish homeland. So historians say, violence wasn't as big of a factor as the gov't like to say. Read my earlier comments about the UNWR reports, Israel was able to integrate its citizens b/c of the $

[ultbeatlesfan]

Pundits so easily sit in comfortable studios and pontificate about "solutions" which will result in the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians. Discussions of "justice" are easy when you yourself won't suffer.

[sana6]

how will ppl die from this solution to peace. instead, ppl will STOP dying as peace will be achieved. YOu don't think thats possible, look at Egypt and Jordan, how the are living in peace with Israel. Return the land to the palis and you will get peace. BUt if you teer-torring in the peace negotiations, like Jimmy Carter says, then Arabs will get sick of talking. We crushed the crusaders, the mongolians, the europeans, and your next if keep waring with us

[OperationOpera]

The Arabs crushed the Mongols? I don't know if that is the craziest shit I've ever heard from an Arab. Google "sack or Baghdad" or conversly, "Hukagu Khan....

[sana6]

i know that. Did you research about the Mamluks and how they defeated the mongols in Syria/Jordan. That was after the Baghdad Sack, and thats' why the mongolians were pushed backs. The pope was so worried then, that he was considering to launch a crusade. but the arabs finished the job for him

[lproth]

20, 000 mongols was not the main army, 1259, 1261 civil was what hurt the mongols more. they could no longer find unity after that. saved arabia, north africa and western europe. you are right in that the Mamluks holding action helped.

[ultbeatlesfan]

The Arabs didn't crush the Mongolians...the Mongolians were winning, they just left because Gengis Khan died. Had they stayed, they would have crushed the Arabs. And in regards to the Europeans, only under the leadership of Saladin (who was a Kurd) did the Arabs crush the Europeans. In the ensuing Crusades, the Europeans crushed the Arabs. If you look back at your history, you'll also find that Britain ruled most of the Middle East in the days of it's empire.

[sana6]

1)First, to your Mongolians, I am not talking about Gengis Khan, I am taking about the Mamluks and the Mongolians. They mongolians invaded and they were driven out eventually, under the Mamluks. Saladin considered himself an ARAB and had an Arab upbringing in Syria. Nur-ed din did most of the job. Your German crusade and fifth crusade ended in disaster b/c you were eventually overwhelmed by the Arabs. and the brits were never in the middleeast until after WWI, and they were out by the 40s=P

[sana6]

2) return to their land. REFUGEES=INNOCENT. And no matter what sick fucked up time of logic your thinking, Refugees should never be punished. Israel broke Res 192, stopping return of Palis to their home, Res 242, expanding settlements. Plus 325 other UN res. Also, it broke Geneva Article 7 and 47, conquering territory+altering demographic presence. You guys never apply Geneva articles to the ARabs, b/c you consider us savages. And you expect us not to be frustrated and fight back for whats ours

[fitnaresponses]

60 years of ethnic cleansing continues

[alphadawg44]

lets hope they finish the job

[johnknoefler]

Why are arabs who fled to Israel to other nations still living in Refugee camps? Because those arab host nations refuse to let them work or vote or integrate. They are opressed by thier own people.

[sana6]

1)Do you even know anything. In the 1950s, they were over 1 million pali refugees in host arab nations. UNWR Reports in the 1950s, stated Arab nations made GENUINE attempts at accepting the Palis. But how much could they have done! Each nation was undergoing soci-political tormoil. Syria 17 coup d'etat, Egypt was busy with ousting the British. Oil didn't become a major product til 70s. Naturally, the Gulf states are going to focus on their own infrastructure first. Refugees deserve to

[brick4sale]

Wow, they're not even trying to hide their view I wish there was a neutral media on this but that's impossible.

[johnh23]

The sheer arrogance of the Haaretz guy shows the true evil nature of Zionist Israel.

[brick4sale]

Haaretz is a more liberal paper keep that in mind.

[catjesus]

The fact is that the people living in 'Palestine' are doing so because of manipulative arab states. They are the pawns in the suffering game, set up for the benefit of the western media in order to present a case against Israel, who are simply trying to defend their precarious little corner against crazed religious fanatics.

[psandbergnz]

catjesus, I think your statement that the Arabs are to blame for "people living in Palestine" is breathtakingly naive and prejudiced. The Palestininas have been living there for hundreds of years. Are you saying the Arabs should remove them to cede all the land to the Jews?

[jerkinp]

The Arab dictators known as moderates by the West who support them will not accept the Palestinians simply because they will destabilize their regimes. Just look at the Egyptians whom the majority don't care about having a democratic government. If a large amount of Palestinians come in who have no loyalty to these tyrants and who lack the tolerance. There will be trouble.

But trying to get the surrounding states to pay for Israel's mistakes is not justifiable or fair.

[johnknoefler]

The palistinian Arabs will destablilize any place they go. They are just nuts. The ones who came to USA cause nothing but trouble. They are dangerous. One guy stabbed his daughter to death while the mother held her because she got a job.

[megatron0357]

And please dont get me wrong. i dont mean for palestinians to up and move to jordan. Palestine is their home and their grievanced need to be addressed. injustice needs to be corrected. israel is very very unjust and for a people who have been heaped great injustice to them should know better and understand what palestinians feel. Many do understand but that ultra orthodoxy won't allow anny concessions. Talmud wont let them do it. sad state of affairs. old saying "God dont like ugly"

[megatron0357]

hmm. can anyone tell me why jordan who has many palestinians there..why they dont grant them full citizenship? they are all brothers. why not grant that and build society stronger?

[jerkinp]

Jordan house many refugees from across the Middle East and their running out of resources. To ask them to grant citizenship to the Palestinians is impossible without angering the Iraqi refugees who also want citizenship.

[scentciti]

thank you Dr marwan

[forgutMyName]

As long as the arabs don't see their mistakes, they will proceed no where.

It's easy to blame Israel on every thing, but would the arabs take responsibility for you own actions and decisions? you resist UN partition plan, you claim war against Israel's right to exist (The right was approved in UN) so as we say in Israel: you eat the cake you cooked! stop weeping all the time, and instead go back to reality, hate and blame will lead no where as the last 60 yrs proved!

[xxashyy]

Real arrogant jew you are. The Arabs are not the only one blaming israel (and rightfully so) now or days. Israel has gotten so cocky and even more bloody half if not the whole world knows what Isreal and the US are up to and are critising. Because of Israel actions they are isolating itself more and more. Israel has violated more UN resoultions than the arabs countries combined and you have the nerve to cite the UN partition plan?!? Zionists like you will be the undoing of your state.

[themerrill]

Both sides need to calm down. Israel seems to believe it can act with impunity (mostly because American presidents line up lock-step with them). Because of this impunity, they do some very stupid things, like the settlements or the wall.

Oh, and America: Blocking off the Gaza Strip after Hamas took control - stupid.

Hamas will have to come to terms with Israel existing in some form long into the future.

Hopefully future world leaders will have an interest in fixing this, because now they don't

[xxashyy]

I agree.

[brick4sale]

Oh come on they both do that, they all point the finger to the other.

[crazycatfguy]

Oh please. You can't invade a country to steal their land and ethnically cleanse it an then claim self defense when they fight back.

[jerkinp]

This the same U.N. that could not stop the Iraq War. The same U.N. that got bullied by the United States and changed Iraq status from occupation to mandate. The same U.N. that failed to stop the Rwanda Genocide. The same U.N. that investigates Iran's nuclear allegations but not the allegations against Israel nuclear arsenals. The same U.N. that can't do anything about the violations committed by veto holding nations and their allies.

[sugarpuddin88]

As long as only 3 Zionist own every major American media outlet, this terrible injustice will continue

[ratonnewmex]

yeap, you got that right.

[BIGMEL1981]

nothing against the people of Isreal & Palestine at all ... all our governments are scum bags trying to divide us further with so called reforms and new ideas .... what they do is plunder and go away thats all ... leaving us behind to battle one another ... absolutely rubbish POLITICIANS !