ever had teenagers tell u how to live while ur paying the bills and keeping them?
i do agree that a just god would never condemn people to an eternal sentence without first disclosing the truth..it seems self righteous of us to assume that we should be in the know. for example, notice that humans do not blame their limited understanding of matters but instead blame an apparrently unjust god, like paranoid power whores...who wants to hang with them kind? idk peace
@supasexycapfantaztic Why does God need friends? More importantly, why is having "groupies" less desirable than sending billions of people to unimaginable eternal torture?
If approximately one third of the angels in Heaven thought that the Christian god was an insufferable asshole and changed teams, then what hope is there for the rest of us?
(2of2)It maybe that a mind can't cope realizating there's no objective or transcendent purpose to life. So a survival mechanism, in the form delusion, has emerged that convinces us purpose has been bestowed upon us & that delusion most commonly manifests as God. Whilst the religious give a face to this, Atheists satisfy themselves with the idea that they can provide themselves with subjective purpose & end it there without attempting to appreciate the gravity of where their reasoning leads them.
(1of2) A Comment on statements made @1:35ish, a slightly alternative hypothesis.I've been having the discussion about why people believe in God for about 10 years now. It maybe that belief in God is more than just hammered in dogma. It could be that evolving into self aware creatures, that recognise our own fragility & mortality, we've instinctively combatted the nihilistic resolve that may emerge from the realization that we don't ultimately matter in the bigger picture. [continued...]
Oh boy! I love this one. I've had very similar ideas rattling around in my head for a long time. But you put it all in a neat little package and tied it up with a pretty little bow.
@talentednita I'm sorry I don't normally reply to comments like yours but are you saying that the trade centre attacks are in the bible? I find this sooo ethnocentric. America is not the only nation to ever of had a great slaughter or have "towers" fall. Why oh why does that passage refer to 9/11? Don't get me wrong it was a terrible horrible thing that happened but I don't see its relevance to the bible. Prehaps when it was written they were refering to babylonian towers. More likely...
@emailpobox666 How so? Just because someone knows what you will do, doesn't mean that that someone forces you to do it. Knowledge about what will happen alone is not equal to power to control what will happen.
@Griexxt Think about it . If every action and thought was know billions of years prior to my existence then my "free will" would have no effect on anything because every action was preordained prior to my birth. ( If you'd like I can expand on this but right now I'm fighting a migraine)
@emailpobox666 If I somehow get a precognition of what you're going to do in exactly one second, and you then do exactly that, does that mean you didn't act of your own accord? No, of course not. And the amount of time has nothing to do with it.
Think of it this way (but cure your migraine first ;-) ): the fact that I know the outcome of a causal chain of events does not mean that I control the chain of events. Each event still happens because it is caused to happen by the event before it.
@emailpobox666 Just because someone else knows what you'll decide does not mean that this person has made the decision for you. You still base your decisions on your experiences, knowledge, perception, personality and so on. An omniscient being would necessarily know all these things about you and would then also know what your decision will be, but this being would not make the decision for you. The illusion is that free will should somehow mean being able to choose completely randomly.
@Griexxt Think of reality as a movie already produced by your god . He knows everything about the movie. Can the characters change the movie from within
@emailpobox666 In a movie characters do things because the script tells them to, not as a reaction to the current situation. In life you make choices based on what you currently perceive to be the situation, ie. your choice is caused by something, not based on a pre-written script. That someone knows how you perceive the situation and therefore knows how you will act, doesn't change that you are reacting to the situation as you perceive it, or that your choice will have an outcome.
@Griexxt You got it right with this "In a movie characters do things because the script tells them to, ". We are just unaware that we are in a movie. But an omniscient god is. My actions were planned billions of years before I was born. You are thinking of your god as trapped in time. You god created time .. Your god is not a prisoner of time. Your god made a creation the universe and set thing in motion ( Chaos Theory) the moment he created it
@Griexxt You got it right with this "In a movie characters do things because the script tells them to, ". We are just unaware that we are in a movie. But an omniscient god is. My actions were planned billions of years before I was born. You are thinking of your god as trapped in time. You god created time .. Your god is not a prisoner of time. Your god made a creation the universe and set thing in motion ( Chaos Theory) the moment he created it
As a point of courtesy, here on YT I usually check my opponent's channel before making assumptions about their beliefs. Of course, sometimes it doesn't tell me much. But in my case there would be no doubt. I'm an atheist. I'm not talking about "my god", I'm talking about a hypothetical being who happens to be omniscient, nothing else.
@Griexxt You can't have an omniscient being outside of space time and free will . An impossibility. Sorry I would have change the last post but I was responding to each one individually. i would have left out the "Your" in your god
@emailpobox666 If I somehow get a precognition of what you're going to do in exactly one second, and you then do exactly that, does that mean you didn't act of your own accord? No, of course not. And the amount of time has nothing to do with it.
Think of it this way (but cure your migraine first ;-) ): the fact that I know the outcome of a causal chain of events does not mean that I control the chain of events. Each event still happens because it is caused to happen by the event before it.
Scott. I've just started watching your videos and recently become an atheist, and I just want to say that I totally agree with this video, and that if the Christian god exists he is a complete douchebag who contradicts himself and I will gladly tell him. But he already knows, doesn't he? lol. I think a person is extremely moronic if he does not accept the fact that anything is possible, however far fetched it may be, but if he believes in Christianity, he is a sheep.
You're so incredibly smug and arrogant, I really feel sorry for you...God feels sorry for you as well... I'm sure my saying that will make you burn a brown mark in your Spiderman undies you bought off gay.com...
@modestoca25 what a Christian like comment. I'm sure your God is proud of you. He isn't being smug or arrogant. He is making an argument that is probably putting you in a corner and you have to get out by kicking and screaming (making a rude comment on a youtube channel)
The really ancient religions - early Judeism, Christianity, Islam, early Buddhism and Confucianism all believed in a subtle, etherlike non-anthropomorphic god, whose existence was something more like 'truth' or 'beauty' than a man in the clouds with a toga. Those religions were against philosophical speculation as a waste of time, and focused on spiritual exercises to development courageous compassion. Buddha was explicitly indifferent to the existence of theistic god. What counts is being good.
@leconfidant Buddhists don't believe in a God/god. Islam isn't that ancient and mixes a pagan moon deity with the God of the Christian/Jews. But you're right, what counts is being good, and without religion, most people would not be good and we'd instead act like animals killing, stealing and raping each other like chimpanzees do--chaos would reign but atheists would be in bliss without religion. Laws and governments would not exist without organized religion.
@modestoca25 :-) Hahaha. Thank you. I was dialoguing with new atheism and he said, 'bad people do bad things in the name of religion'. I said 'It's true that people blame religion for the stuff they get up to but they're always going to blame something. We just invaded Iraq in the name of democracy. Most people believe it was for the oil, but no-one has sugested we give up democracy because of that. People rarely say, 'I did it because I'm an evil schmuk'. Could you do a post on that?
Billions wouldn't be saved anyway. The book of Revelations states that only 144,000 people from 12 different tribes that no longer exist will get to go to heaven. If your not a member of one of the tribes from 2,000 years ago your ass out of luck. The god of the bible doesn't let anyone who kisses his butt in.
Anyway, entertain myself with the atheist/god a lot and never have come across this argument. Kudos to you good sir.
I feel like you've disproven the Christian God's existence. The actual existence of a creator in the universe is completely unfalsifiable. However, I completely agree with what was said and think you did a great job summing it up.
@TheoreticalBullshit I'm an atheist and have been for a little over a year and you summed it up better than I ever could. Consider my mind blown. Thank you.
Knowledge doesn't just "not negate choice", it enhances your choice. For example: knowledge of gravity got us to send vehicles to the opposite ends of the solar system. Knowledge of bicycle mechanics got us flight. Yadda yadda yadda.
the only way, that a plan like that would be valid is if hell was removed from the equation. no christian will ever stop using thier hell threats. they can't even consider that the "terrible few" i.e. the hitlers, dahmers, and vlads would just auto go to heaven if such a place were real.
the theists, are the ones that need hell, not "god", because of there petty, infantile misconceptions of good, evil, and justice.
YOU DONT GO TO HELL BECAUSE YOU DONT BELIEVE GOD EXISTS
god, this is beacuse all of those retarded christians who think theism = "faith" and all you need to do is believe god exists and your saved.
Did apostoles believe God or Jesus existed, yes they did, they were all theists, the devil if he exists is also a theist. They all betrayed him and run like chickens.
Believing in God is not believing that he exists, its is trusting to God based on EVIDENCE
this is totally hilarious and a video based on incorrect logic... every faith/religion claims there is only one god, so what religion is god... Religion is a dangerous thing... There is no proof of god, only faith in the belief, of which has never been proven. The mind is a delicate thing and susceptible to believing many things and many stories, and that’s what the bible is.. A collection of stories... We also hear about the end of the world. plenty of claims but again.. Still here...
@patriot1320 Are you saying this video has incorrect logic? In order to create a logical syllogism involving God, you have to define it, implicitly or explicitly. TB specifically defined God as the Christian god in this video. The logic is inescapably valid and sound.
@BrooklynRagtag let me give you the truth, there is no god, if you believe god exsists then the responsibility is on you to prove that fact and not claim faith, now, if as you say TB specifically defined God as the Christian god, then does this render all other faiths usless as all/most faiths only believe in one god, so why then have diffrent religions?? religion is flawed just like humanity, which created it. one has to open their eyes and apply logic and reason to see the truth. try it !!!!
@patriot1320 You clearly didn't understand his argument. TB gave a logical syllogism against the existence of God, or at least against a common definition of God. TB is an atheist and so am I. Did you even watch the video before posting? It seems like you just assumed he was giving an argument for a god and then didn't even bother to listen to the argument. This wouldn't be good behavior even if TB was a Christian apologist.
Heck, if angels in heaven have both free will and utmost happiness, why can't humans? Given that heaven, if it is by definition the most desirable state of existence for a human, must be devoid of suffering, then does this mean that there is no free will in heaven, according to Christians who attempt to refute the problem of evil? If so, then how can heaven meet the standards of its definition?
Christians think that suspending a natural disbelief is the same as acquiring a supernatural belief. This leads to: 1. Changing what normally would be "seeing is believing" into "believing is seeing". 2. Self-validating second-hand hearsay to call it first-hand revelation. 3. Taking authority as the truth instead of taking truth as the authority. 4. Failing to see the only difference between a ventriloquist & prophet is suspension of disbelief by the latter's audience to hear what they want to.
You make an excellent point in regards to knowledge and the negation of free will.
Christians love to argue that if their god made himself known this would cancel out free will; we would no longer be compelled to choose. What a steaming pile of BS this is!!
They fail to see that if their god made himself known, this would prove the existence of the supernatural and only serve to strengthen the beliefs of those who worship other deities. New religions would be born and new gods created.
@Joseph10805 I thought like the christians do. I didn't watch the history channel cause I was scared them talking about how the world was billions of years old would change my beliefs. Well it did. Sigh. But all people could think like this. I think they are scared to though. And I think they just simply ignore it and try to make excuses. But that doesn't make it real.
I guess I'm a little confused as to how the quote by Pascal is the launching point for your argument. If I understood the quote correctly Pascal said that: 1) God is hidden, and any religion that says otherwise is untrue and 2) any religion that does not explain why does not instruct. Obviously Pascal believed Christianity to be the type of religion that espoused a hidden God AND had an explanation for why He is so, or else I would think Pascal wouldn't be a Christian in the first place.Right?
And because nobody can claim to know anything about God, your stipulations about God (such as his omnipotence or omniscience or onmi-benevolence) cannot be used to prove his nonexistence.
A God that is either Evil or Fictitious? Those are precious few parameters, my friend. How about a God that just doesn't give a shit? How about a God who views people's belief in him open to interpretation?
In making your arguments, you assume that God is a simple being who can be defined by certain requirements and limitations which you state. It is simply the Christian belief that God is omni-benevolent, not the Christian fact. In all actuality, nobody can claim to know anything about God
There is one thing I never understood. As far as I was told growing up, humans had the sole prize of free will. No other creature had it, including his own angels. If that was a misunderstanding, tell me please. If not, how did any angel rebel including the Morning Star? As far as not making his presence known, that is, in itself taking away free will since we don't have the choice to worship him if we don't even know he exists.
I've used an argument similar to this before, but this actually helps me out -- separating clearly the knowledge from the belief.
Devil's advocate:
Unfortunately, I think to the extent that Mysterious Ways is valid (it isn't really), it applies to this. Suppose God also knows what choices you will make when you finally do know X. Perhaps all he's doing is waiting for just the right moment. Perhaps some people would never have accepted it, so it's immaterial whether or not they know...
@FurieMan : According to Romans 1, this guy has everything he needs in order to believe. He already knows that God exists. He simply chooses not to acknowledge that God exists.
Not all Christians believe that non Christians go to hell, including Catholics. In the catechism, it states that non Christians can go to heaven. Since the Catholic Church is the original Christian Chruch and was the only Christian Church for a long time, it's fair to say that at it's roots, Christianity does not condemn non Christians, although the idea that non Christians go to hell has become a common belief among modern Christians.
The qoute you used makes no sense bro God has accourding to the Bible revealed himself in all the Creation dude who wrote is must not have ever read the Bible.
LOL so because you dont believe God dont exist lol dude you have fallen off the crazy wagon I mean argue Evolution or Science but bro this is funny lol Yeshua does not need you to believe to be real and its your choice bro.
@afghanrebel1 the analogy fails because *we* aren't capable of speaking to ants in a way they'd understand directly, but God himself-ominpresent, eternal, all-powerful- has been demonstrated (if you believe the Bible) to speak to *us* directly. He hasn't, at least he hasn't in these times. Or if he has, his method seems to be indistinguishable from schizophrenia or the internal thought processes, tendencies and biases of the particular worshiper God is supposedly speaking to at the time.
We can't speak to ants in a way they can undeniably unequivocally understand. God should be able to speak to us in a way that we undeniably unequivocally could. (He can do anything, right?) He has not.
@afghanrebel1 Probably because whether or not the ants or the rat are aware of our existence is inconsequential both to us and them. According to Christian theology, the awareness of God's existence is not inconsequential.
my logic decrees that 8:45 to 8:51 "god is either evil or fictitious" well we've heard that sound byte a billion times too. Though it is always arrived at the outworkings of logic based on what you (man) think "should" happen to save souls. I am with certainty that a being, "if we so label him/her god", that qualifies as supreme being (the definition of god...generic dictionary) probably has a billion times more clarity on reality as to arrive at the best plan through vastly superior logic.
i believe the idea of burning in hell if u do bad things was originated by the high priests in ancient times, to control society, because the high priests were very trusted and believed so everyone believed them and it continued all the way to today
@victoryX4 Actually, when the Jews were being persecuted in ancient times they invented heaven and hell to give their religion an appeal, and to prevent people from converting/leaving their faith.
The argument against this is that there was an 'enlightened' messiah later on spreading messages about their faith from God himself, and heaven and hell were a part of this message.
yay my thumbs up made it become 999 thumbs up. upside down that becomes...
Anyway I think there may be three options to why God's plan is as bad as it is besides God being evil or not existing at all, and that is that God is really really stupid to come up with this retarded plan to save every soul.
I'd like to point out that the ones who haven't heard the word of God will be spared. Unlike you, who openly try to work logic into the equation. Faith has absolutely nothing to do with logic. That's not saying those who have faith are without logic. What you say throughout many of your videos is simply this, "it doen't seem logical, therefore it cannot be."
There are more possibles than evil or fictitious. He could not be all knowing, or all powerful. He could just be careless or stupid. We could have it backwards, and god lives in a warm and loving place called hell, and he did give us all the motivation we need to get there....
I like pointing out the oh so many contradictions in the bible to Christians. If Satan is the father of lies, doesn't it stand to reason that God is the father of truth? Then why does the "word of god" contradict itself many many many times? Truth doesn't contradict itself. Because if it did, it wouldn't be truth.
Ask a Christian this, and if they ask what contradictions,go to
@PaxOfMind But it's the same either way. Knowing there is 1 god 100%and also knowing that if you chose not to worship him you'd go to Hell isn't free will. That is sheer stupidity.
@PaxOfMind Yes. Also the definition for free will is the ability to make decisions without threats and coercion. I hope i spelled that right. Also if god can't intervene... then why do people say he answers their prayers. How is this possible? I actually just thought of that one.
Your use of 1 Timothy 2:4 seems to misrepresent the verse. The passage makes mention not to each and every individual person, but to all kinds of people to be saved and come to the truth.
@Believer1993 False, It says EXACTLY "who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." As shown here: bible.cc/1_timothy/2-4 .htm
People tell me that LOVE exists. But, I don't know, Scott. Look how painful and destructive love can be. Your girlfriend tells you that she "loves you". Can she PROVE IT? It's just WORDS Maybe she just LIKES you and likes having SEX with you...but there IS no PROOF that she LOVES you...is there? Nor is there any proof that YOU love HER. Does this mean that love DOES NOT exist?. I mean, COME-ON...! You're BOTH FOOLS..! There's no REAL proof..! You're DELUSIONAL! Did you like that? That's you...!
I will destroy the whole thing. God has allowed his presence to be covered up by fallen angels and lucifer in order to test his creation's freewill of choosing either ignorance or indifference to such a huge evil presence. The ones who want to find out about their enemy are the ones who will come to the word of god in the last days(which we are in).
@taylorsickler123 So, God creates free will, granting the ability to choose whatever we want, then God says "You must pick this path, or you will be tortured for all time." That's not a choice, that's a tyrannical demand.
If God "allowed his presence to be covered up by fallen angels," that means God allowed Evil to exist, something an all good god would never do.
The Montanists of the 2nd century thought they were in the last days. Your claim about the last days is no more valid than theirs.
The Bible separates itself from all other religious texts by prophecy. This is the fingerprint of God, it is what makes Christianity very different indeed.
Freewill is not in this equation here, this is just confusing matters for you. It is our sin that separates us from God, we could not see God in all His glory and then live, this is what the Bible teaches us. God is perfect and holy and we are not. The Bible also teaches a 1st & 2nd coming of Messiah (twice).
...Your question is answered in a parable of Jesus’. The rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16) the rich man asks that Lazarus be sent to his brothers to warn them “so that they will not also come to this place of torment”. In this parable Abraham replies “They have Moses and the prophets let them listen to them.” also he says "If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead."
@bttrflykiss7701 Hi there, we know it is God's word because of the accuracy of the prophecies. The prophecies are specific with no margin for error. It is written of God's word: "I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please." (Isaiah 46:10) Check out my top fave video on my channel. It is a very specific & interesting messianic prophecy - I think it would be good for you to see it.
Oh piffle. Talking walking snakes, angels, heaven, hell, wizards, blocks of salt, magic potions, and wholesale violations of natural law mean one thing, you are dealing with mythology.
Pretending something is rational doesn't make it rational.
Or perhaps we do not know "x" because we are not seeking to identify and/or understand "x." "Fallen angels," most notably Lucifer, did not opt to "fall." Their position within the Heavenly Host was not enough for these agents of God, so they sought to supplant God in Heaven, and in their lust for power were cast out of paradise to exist in the dolorous pride they hoped to attain while still in communion with God. Or perhaps human beings are not equipped to "know" the divine plan, so we seek...
...answers wherever they can be found. Incidentally, God has made himself known to humanity in a number of ways. We typically find accounts of God existing through the works of human beings or through the presence of the Blessed Mother or the Holy Spirit. Some examples include, but are not limited to, the vision of Our Lady of Guadeloupe by Juan Diego, the vision of Our Lady of Lourdes, or the vision of Our Lady of Fatima. There is proof of God all around us. We choose to see or not to see.
@MageSutek If there is this supposed "evidence", then it is not faith. What is the difference between God making us believe in him from birth and God coming down to show himself as a "vision" and declare his existence? Either way, the conclusion of the existence of God is not a faith-based view; it is inherently empirically-based, negating the very purpose of the religion.
There is evidence in select cases, and I suspect that is what you would need in order to believe that God exists. A satisfactory evidentiary standard is present with a preponderance of the evidence we do have. Believers need not have clear and convincing evidence in order to substantiate their claims. Nor does there have to be proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Esotericism and spirituality would cease being what they are if they were held to that standard. Faith is not eliminated simply because...
...there are cases in which evidence is available. There is a significant difference between God "making" us believe in him from birth and God manifesting himself through a vision or other type of physical intercession. One would remove the element of God's gift of freedom of choice whereas the latter would keep that element intact. But I cannot agree with your assertion that God's existence is possible outside a faith-based view. If God's existence was inherently empirically based, there...
@MageSutek "God "making" us believe in him from birth ... would remove the element of God's gift of freedom of choice"
I'd like you to explain how having this knowledge implanted within us would inhibit our freedom of choice. Can you give me an example of a choice we could make without this knowledge that we could not possibly make with it?
I was referring to the human capacity/ability to know God with or without access to empirical data presenting one with direct evidence of that said existence. Having reframed what I had written in several other posts, I would think that would be sufficient to answer you query. If you are asking how an "innate" knowledge of God's existence would either impair or enhance our ability to make choices in life, indeed choices of our own volition, I cannot give you an example, as I do not...
...think things work that way. My implicit remark of removing choice from the equation if we were to be born with an innate and unshakable belief in God would eliminate rather than inhibit our freedom of choice as it pertains to one's belief in God. However, since I do not think this is the way things work, and that people choose to believe or not to believe, the issue is not really a debate as far as I am concerned. It is an interesting thought though. Gay men and women are being persecuted...
@MageSutek It's hard for me to figure out exactly what you're saying with your comments... What one believes is not subject entirely to the will. You do not get to simply choose what you are and are not convinced of. I'm not sure if you're saying you agree with that sentiment, or disagree.
Sorry if I am being confusing in my responses. I would agree that what one believes is not entirely subject to one's will alone, although I believe that is the case with some "things" in one's life. However, I don't follow why one can't simply choose what one is convinced of and what one is not convinced of; such things are easily overcome through presentation of fact. I am convinced that there are exceptions to both topics, so my answer is I both agree and disagree, which is likely not helpful.
@MageSutek There is a complex interplay between our cognitive inputs and our conscious desires and will. To say that one's beliefs are entirely involuntary would be incorrect, just as it would be to say that we simply decide what to believe in every case. A person can profess a belief without actually holding it, and eventually end up believing it in some sense. There is one line of thinking in Christianity where someone should act as if they believe until they receive the gift of faith.
@Arkalius80 I agree that one's beliefs are not entirely involuntary. A person can indeed profess a belief without actually holding it, although there is usually a separate motive in doing so. I suppose it is reasonable to say that one could eventually end up believing it, although doing so perhaps belies one's initial feigned avowal of belief. I do not know much about this "one line of thinking" you mentioned. I submit that you either have faith or do not have faith. Kids might be an exception.
@MageSutek Well I'm not a theologian, but I believe it was Thomas Aquinas who developed the idea. As I remember it (perhaps incorrectly), faith wasn't something anyone can just "have", it was a gift from God when he felt you're ready. Those who had not yet received this gift ought to live as if they believed and in time, it would come to them. Cognitively, this does two things. It creates more professing believers, and it directs a person's cognitive biases toward finding reasons to believe.
...en masse in the US because their straight counterparts insist that "being gay" is a choice, and that one's sexual identity can be turned on and off. No matter how many gay people speak out that they did not choose to be gay, but were rather born gay, it never seems to be enough for those in the majority. It is an interesting dichotomy. Many people insisting they are not like the rest, and shunned because of it. Many people of faith shunned because they cannot "prove" their beliefs have merit.
...would be insufficient evidence to make an empirical claim that God exists. Faith is essential in the continuity of belief. I am frankly disinterested in religion, as I believe that institutionalized religion serves to distance humanity from God more than it does not. I did not always believe this, and perhaps that is a failing on my part, but I can believe in God without empirical data proving His existence. That would be my faith that He exists. Whatever your opinions on religion, it...
It is a shame that is all you got out of my posts. Maybe rereading them would prove fruitful, although it is entirely possible you just are not going to get anything from them. I suspect your inability to derive meaning or substance from what I wrote has more to do with your beliefs and how they likely differ from my own. However, if what you got from my writing is that "God only exists in [my] mind," then you did miss the point. That is okay though, as I appreciate the views of others openly.
...is much harder to disprove God's existence to the faithful than it is to disprove God's existence to churchgoers. These days there is an indelible separation between the two groups, even if the faithful believe that the churches can again espouse true belief through faith alone. Sadly, they have lost this ability in many capacities. I would argue that religion has played an empirically antithetical role in the preservation of faith through faith alone, and yet my faith has not wavered. Weird!
I've wondered about that...satan having been in the very presence of God and still choosing to rebel? Over "feelings" ?? And the fact that God seems at one point to have all this action going on with man and then withdrawing ?? people suffering, God has the power to stop things, but doesn't ??Believers have these same questions but deny themselves the truth because to question, to doubt is to lack faith. Then there's hell to look foward to. Very cruel if you ask me. Loved your video buddy.
Good work. Thank you for posting this. With how much religion is an ingrained portion of society, it is great to be able to know that I am not alone in my thoughts on these topics. I think that we (the non believers) do credit unto each other when we speak our minds because we edify each others thought processes and solidify our position through this discourse. Thanks again. Well rehearsed and simply flawless. Rock n roll.
hey scott dont know if my video sent....please contact me want to talk to you ...my name is Armand and my e mail is fadgadget7@yahoo.com ....i love to talk about religion and philosophy and thought you brought up some amazing points, i have a much different perspective than most people and would love to talk to you ...i bring up the same points you do and people get mad at me ...my perspective is much different than most athest and christians would love to share with you ...Armand
Who told you the unsaved burn in hell living? Did you eat of the tree of life? Are you aware that the choice is listed in Romans 6:23? Do you not know that Luke 12:5 is explained by Matthew 10:28? Hell was made for the devil and his angels. They have eaten of the tree of eternal life. Who knows what warnings they got prior to such behavior of eating of that tree?
Why do you devote so much time to "disproving christians" dude? What in the world did they ever do to you that you have countless videos where you try to use logic to tear down the foundations of a very large and for the most part peaceful group of people? They believe what they do, and I can gaurantee you that your logic games are doing nothing but hardening atheists against christians. You're creating a divide dude, and if you even read this, I hope you take some serious time to think about it
@westpsmity dude, the point of the video is not to attack christianity. It is simply trying to help others free themselves from the shackles of religion. If there might be someone who is somewhat questioning their faith, this video could help them figure out the truth. That we don't know whether or not a god exists, but it is extremely unlikely.
Do you have any idea how pretentious it is to claim to know the absolute truth about the mysteries of the world?
@MasterDebator809 A lot of my comment is reflecting on what you see in the comment section here. Not once have I seen "well maybe my religion is wrong..." or anything remotely along that line. The only comments are either a) I'm a Christian and you're wrong or b) I'm an atheist and you're right. I understand what he's trying to do, but in practice I don't believe he's doing anything but further defining boundaries between people.
actually. if you date back to sumerian culture, they did exactly what you are speaking about. they knew there were gods, no questions asked. no arguements. It's pretty illogical to be athiest to be honest. we all have a unique gene to reason that CANNOT have been "taught" over evolution. or else cats and dogs would be in line for a mocha latte at ur starbucks today. every religion is fabricated to their own liking from sumerian text. its proven fact. alas ignorance is bliss...poor ppl.
This post would have made sense were it not for Jesus Christ. He is God made flesh. He claims to be God. He lived among men. He is a historical figure. He was crucified for our sins and He was resurrected from the dead. We are living in 2010 A.D (after Christ's birth) 'X' is Jesus Christ. 'X' is God CHOOSING to be a finite human like us. How much more clear can this get?
@jouljert Jesus the "historical figure", if he existed, had nothing to do with a God in human form. The historicity of Jesus doesn't say anything about his godly nature. That's like saying that *you* are God because I can find your birth certificate. "2010 A.D." is something that Christians came up with years after that (supposed) historic Jesus walked the Earth. It doesn't say *anything* about Jesus himself.
@jouljert what indisputable evidence is there that Jesus was and did everything the Bible claims? What form of dissemination has been put in place to make sure every human on the planet knew about this event from the moment of his resurrection? What messianic prophecy did Jesus fulfil that could not have simply been intentionally fulfilled or historically fudged? What should be clear is that you have a looooooong way to go with that argument.
@CasperTheMeanieGhost if i was betting money on it id say thered be a hell of a lot less.
it takes more evidence to convice people of different things. some people have never researched the holucaust and just believe it without researching it, and some people will take an awful lot of convincing. BUT, if there was physical evidence and historical records of it (like the holucaust has), then yes there would be less atheists.
"no matter how obvious something is", yes but HOW is it obvious? throughout the entire conversation you didnt explain how it was obvious atall?
i could just as easily say to you, "you dont want to be held accountable to allah, some people no matter how obvious you make it to them that islam is true, will just never accept allah because they are biased".
but that wouldnt be fair atall would it? so you shouldnt say it either.
@Ilikenuman The statement u just made about islam is COMPLETELY accurate.the fact that there are people who reject islam has no bearing on whether or not islam is true.LIKEWISE,the fact that there are people who reject christianity has no bearing on whether or not christianity is true.
Do u deny that no matter how obvious theism is,there would STILL be atheists?
some people just take more convincing but there is always a way of convincing people. Like if god appeared in front of the whole world right now and did loads of magic and showed without a shadow of a doubt that it wasnt just an illusion of special effects and showed people heaven for a little bit, or jesus appeared or the prophet mohammed returned for a little while. YES, absolutely everyone who saw it would believe it.
@CasperTheMeanieGhost Here`s a better question ... IF the evidence for God were ON PAR with the evidence for the actual existence of the universe,WOULD THERE STILL BE ATHEISTS???
(hint ... before u answer,realize that there really are 1 billion people who actually believe the universe doesn`t exist)
@CasperTheMeanieGhost "1 billion dont believe the universe exists" wrong, they believe the universe exists only in their mind. so they still believe in a form of reality. and for all we know they could be right.
heres a qustion for you.
if there was as much evidence of a natural cause to the universe (no god) as there was that the universe existed. would there still be theists?
now, do you still believe that the man who made this video, is just in denial? or do you think hes being honest?
jesus is a whore
Jimbotloser1 5 days ago
Barney Fife is God
ONQproductions 2 weeks ago
God has given us free will and people like you wish it away by making videos denying His existence...
ProtestantsRUs 3 weeks ago
@ProtestantsRUs God is a myth. Free will ..Hmm let me see do as I command or suffer for all eternity. I'm underwhelmed by our ( LOL) free will
emailpobox666 2 weeks ago
@ProtestantsRUs If God gave us free will, then why aren't we allowed to use it without getting tortured for eternity in the "afterlife"?
DerMaskenfrosch 1 week ago
oh and merry christmas and may you never know the loneliness that is worse than being alone.
supasexycapfantaztic 1 month ago
because lonelyness sucks.
ever had teenagers tell u how to live while ur paying the bills and keeping them?
i do agree that a just god would never condemn people to an eternal sentence without first disclosing the truth..it seems self righteous of us to assume that we should be in the know. for example, notice that humans do not blame their limited understanding of matters but instead blame an apparrently unjust god, like paranoid power whores...who wants to hang with them kind? idk peace
supasexycapfantaztic 1 month ago
what if a celebrity wanted real friends and not the usual "groupie". would the celebrity go around announcing who they were?
supasexycapfantaztic 1 month ago
@supasexycapfantaztic Why does God need friends? More importantly, why is having "groupies" less desirable than sending billions of people to unimaginable eternal torture?
killerkerara 1 month ago
@killerkerara " Why does God need friends?" I'm guessing that the Christians are more like pets than friends
emailpobox666 1 month ago 2
If approximately one third of the angels in Heaven thought that the Christian god was an insufferable asshole and changed teams, then what hope is there for the rest of us?
dingodavid 1 month ago
@dingodavid Excellent comment
emailpobox666 1 month ago
love this argument
Category120 1 month ago
(2of2)It maybe that a mind can't cope realizating there's no objective or transcendent purpose to life. So a survival mechanism, in the form delusion, has emerged that convinces us purpose has been bestowed upon us & that delusion most commonly manifests as God. Whilst the religious give a face to this, Atheists satisfy themselves with the idea that they can provide themselves with subjective purpose & end it there without attempting to appreciate the gravity of where their reasoning leads them.
MrLittletomdj 2 months ago
(1of2) A Comment on statements made @1:35ish, a slightly alternative hypothesis.I've been having the discussion about why people believe in God for about 10 years now. It maybe that belief in God is more than just hammered in dogma. It could be that evolving into self aware creatures, that recognise our own fragility & mortality, we've instinctively combatted the nihilistic resolve that may emerge from the realization that we don't ultimately matter in the bigger picture. [continued...]
MrLittletomdj 2 months ago
Comment removed
MrLittletomdj 2 months ago
Oh boy! I love this one. I've had very similar ideas rattling around in my head for a long time. But you put it all in a neat little package and tied it up with a pretty little bow.
dymchurch1 2 months ago
religions are nuts !
flexbrat 3 months ago
PLUS BILLIONS OF PPL WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN KILLED THRU OUT HISTORY IN RELIGIONS NAME !
flexbrat 4 months ago
How does the Earth Orbit around the Sun?
Gravity?
How is the earth 93,000,000 miles from the sun? Perfect Distance by the way in order for us not 2 get BBQ lol
How does the ocean wave stop until they reach the shore?
Job 38:11
When I said, this far you may come, but no farther, and here your proud waves must stop!
9/11 Verse-Isaiah 30:25
And on every lofty mountain and every high hill there will be brooks running with water, in the day of the great slaughter, when the towers fall.
talentednita 4 months ago
@talentednita Funny thing how life evolved to fit in this particular environment.
emailpobox666 4 months ago
@talentednita I'm sorry I don't normally reply to comments like yours but are you saying that the trade centre attacks are in the bible? I find this sooo ethnocentric. America is not the only nation to ever of had a great slaughter or have "towers" fall. Why oh why does that passage refer to 9/11? Don't get me wrong it was a terrible horrible thing that happened but I don't see its relevance to the bible. Prehaps when it was written they were refering to babylonian towers. More likely...
Kimmyloca0 4 months ago
Really good.
eggertstwart 4 months ago
All of these arguments are moot if we don't have free will - and we don't. Destroy the notion of free will and you destroy religion.
rcguy69 4 months ago
@rcguy69 If a god is omniscient then free will doesn't exist
emailpobox666 4 months ago
@emailpobox666 How so? Just because someone knows what you will do, doesn't mean that that someone forces you to do it. Knowledge about what will happen alone is not equal to power to control what will happen.
Griexxt 3 months ago
@Griexxt Think about it . If every action and thought was know billions of years prior to my existence then my "free will" would have no effect on anything because every action was preordained prior to my birth. ( If you'd like I can expand on this but right now I'm fighting a migraine)
emailpobox666 3 months ago
@emailpobox666 If I somehow get a precognition of what you're going to do in exactly one second, and you then do exactly that, does that mean you didn't act of your own accord? No, of course not. And the amount of time has nothing to do with it.
Think of it this way (but cure your migraine first ;-) ): the fact that I know the outcome of a causal chain of events does not mean that I control the chain of events. Each event still happens because it is caused to happen by the event before it.
Griexxt 3 months ago
@Griexxt If everything is know before I do it then I have no way of changing it. ergo no free will
emailpobox666 3 months ago
@Griexxt My ignorance of the future give me the illusion that my decisions have an effect but those decisions were already chosen for me
emailpobox666 3 months ago
@emailpobox666 Just because someone else knows what you'll decide does not mean that this person has made the decision for you. You still base your decisions on your experiences, knowledge, perception, personality and so on. An omniscient being would necessarily know all these things about you and would then also know what your decision will be, but this being would not make the decision for you. The illusion is that free will should somehow mean being able to choose completely randomly.
Griexxt 3 months ago
@Griexxt If My so called choices don't change things then there is no free will and everything is preordained
emailpobox666 3 months ago
@Griexxt the illusion of free will is ignorance of the future. Ignorance of the future or anything is a luxury your god does not have
emailpobox666 3 months ago
@Griexxt the illusion of free will is ignorance of the future. Ignorance of the future or anything is a luxury your god does not have
emailpobox666 3 months ago
@Griexxt Think of reality as a movie already produced by your god . He knows everything about the movie. Can the characters change the movie from within
emailpobox666 3 months ago
@emailpobox666 In a movie characters do things because the script tells them to, not as a reaction to the current situation. In life you make choices based on what you currently perceive to be the situation, ie. your choice is caused by something, not based on a pre-written script. That someone knows how you perceive the situation and therefore knows how you will act, doesn't change that you are reacting to the situation as you perceive it, or that your choice will have an outcome.
Griexxt 3 months ago
@Griexxt You got it right with this "In a movie characters do things because the script tells them to, ". We are just unaware that we are in a movie. But an omniscient god is. My actions were planned billions of years before I was born. You are thinking of your god as trapped in time. You god created time .. Your god is not a prisoner of time. Your god made a creation the universe and set thing in motion ( Chaos Theory) the moment he created it
emailpobox666 3 months ago
@Griexxt You got it right with this "In a movie characters do things because the script tells them to, ". We are just unaware that we are in a movie. But an omniscient god is. My actions were planned billions of years before I was born. You are thinking of your god as trapped in time. You god created time .. Your god is not a prisoner of time. Your god made a creation the universe and set thing in motion ( Chaos Theory) the moment he created it
emailpobox666 3 months ago
@emailpobox666 (cont.)
As a point of courtesy, here on YT I usually check my opponent's channel before making assumptions about their beliefs. Of course, sometimes it doesn't tell me much. But in my case there would be no doubt. I'm an atheist. I'm not talking about "my god", I'm talking about a hypothetical being who happens to be omniscient, nothing else.
Griexxt 3 months ago
@Griexxt You can't have an omniscient being outside of space time and free will . An impossibility. Sorry I would have change the last post but I was responding to each one individually. i would have left out the "Your" in your god
emailpobox666 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@emailpobox666 If I somehow get a precognition of what you're going to do in exactly one second, and you then do exactly that, does that mean you didn't act of your own accord? No, of course not. And the amount of time has nothing to do with it.
Think of it this way (but cure your migraine first ;-) ): the fact that I know the outcome of a causal chain of events does not mean that I control the chain of events. Each event still happens because it is caused to happen by the event before it.
Griexxt 3 months ago
Religion is for people who cannot think for themselves.
0rockerboi85 4 months ago
@0rockerboi85 Upvote for you sir for a great statement!
guitargod1815 4 months ago
Scott. I've just started watching your videos and recently become an atheist, and I just want to say that I totally agree with this video, and that if the Christian god exists he is a complete douchebag who contradicts himself and I will gladly tell him. But he already knows, doesn't he? lol. I think a person is extremely moronic if he does not accept the fact that anything is possible, however far fetched it may be, but if he believes in Christianity, he is a sheep.
0rockerboi85 4 months ago 2
Did Adam (and Eve) know god directly? Did Adam and Eve have free will?
sigmata0 5 months ago
wow a the who t shirt im officially in love!!!!!
bevz2nikki 6 months ago
You're so incredibly smug and arrogant, I really feel sorry for you...God feels sorry for you as well... I'm sure my saying that will make you burn a brown mark in your Spiderman undies you bought off gay.com...
modestoca25 6 months ago
@modestoca25 Was that really necessary!?
falynsoul 6 months ago
@modestoca25 what a Christian like comment. I'm sure your God is proud of you. He isn't being smug or arrogant. He is making an argument that is probably putting you in a corner and you have to get out by kicking and screaming (making a rude comment on a youtube channel)
OnlyTbone 6 months ago
The really ancient religions - early Judeism, Christianity, Islam, early Buddhism and Confucianism all believed in a subtle, etherlike non-anthropomorphic god, whose existence was something more like 'truth' or 'beauty' than a man in the clouds with a toga. Those religions were against philosophical speculation as a waste of time, and focused on spiritual exercises to development courageous compassion. Buddha was explicitly indifferent to the existence of theistic god. What counts is being good.
leconfidant 7 months ago
@leconfidant Buddhists don't believe in a God/god. Islam isn't that ancient and mixes a pagan moon deity with the God of the Christian/Jews. But you're right, what counts is being good, and without religion, most people would not be good and we'd instead act like animals killing, stealing and raping each other like chimpanzees do--chaos would reign but atheists would be in bliss without religion. Laws and governments would not exist without organized religion.
modestoca25 6 months ago
@modestoca25 :-) Hahaha. Thank you. I was dialoguing with new atheism and he said, 'bad people do bad things in the name of religion'. I said 'It's true that people blame religion for the stuff they get up to but they're always going to blame something. We just invaded Iraq in the name of democracy. Most people believe it was for the oil, but no-one has sugested we give up democracy because of that. People rarely say, 'I did it because I'm an evil schmuk'. Could you do a post on that?
leconfidant 6 months ago
Billions wouldn't be saved anyway. The book of Revelations states that only 144,000 people from 12 different tribes that no longer exist will get to go to heaven. If your not a member of one of the tribes from 2,000 years ago your ass out of luck. The god of the bible doesn't let anyone who kisses his butt in.
Anyway, entertain myself with the atheist/god a lot and never have come across this argument. Kudos to you good sir.
HumanNonPerson 7 months ago
I feel like you've disproven the Christian God's existence. The actual existence of a creator in the universe is completely unfalsifiable. However, I completely agree with what was said and think you did a great job summing it up.
Skynt 7 months ago
@TheoreticalBullshit I'm an atheist and have been for a little over a year and you summed it up better than I ever could. Consider my mind blown. Thank you.
TalonyPoo 7 months ago
Knowledge doesn't just "not negate choice", it enhances your choice. For example: knowledge of gravity got us to send vehicles to the opposite ends of the solar system. Knowledge of bicycle mechanics got us flight. Yadda yadda yadda.
beriukay 7 months ago
the only way, that a plan like that would be valid is if hell was removed from the equation. no christian will ever stop using thier hell threats. they can't even consider that the "terrible few" i.e. the hitlers, dahmers, and vlads would just auto go to heaven if such a place were real.
the theists, are the ones that need hell, not "god", because of there petty, infantile misconceptions of good, evil, and justice.
Ihatemelee 8 months ago
I love how they put the christian prayer center ad right next to your video. Does this bother you?
BatliciousBatgirl 8 months ago
YOU DONT GO TO HELL BECAUSE YOU DONT BELIEVE GOD EXISTS
god, this is beacuse all of those retarded christians who think theism = "faith" and all you need to do is believe god exists and your saved.
Did apostoles believe God or Jesus existed, yes they did, they were all theists, the devil if he exists is also a theist. They all betrayed him and run like chickens.
Believing in God is not believing that he exists, its is trusting to God based on EVIDENCE
niinja2 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@niinja2 John 3:16 says you have to believe in him
BatliciousBatgirl 8 months ago
this is totally hilarious and a video based on incorrect logic... every faith/religion claims there is only one god, so what religion is god... Religion is a dangerous thing... There is no proof of god, only faith in the belief, of which has never been proven. The mind is a delicate thing and susceptible to believing many things and many stories, and that’s what the bible is.. A collection of stories... We also hear about the end of the world. plenty of claims but again.. Still here...
patriot1320 8 months ago
@patriot1320 Are you saying this video has incorrect logic? In order to create a logical syllogism involving God, you have to define it, implicitly or explicitly. TB specifically defined God as the Christian god in this video. The logic is inescapably valid and sound.
BrooklynRagtag 7 months ago
@BrooklynRagtag let me give you the truth, there is no god, if you believe god exsists then the responsibility is on you to prove that fact and not claim faith, now, if as you say TB specifically defined God as the Christian god, then does this render all other faiths usless as all/most faiths only believe in one god, so why then have diffrent religions?? religion is flawed just like humanity, which created it. one has to open their eyes and apply logic and reason to see the truth. try it !!!!
patriot1320 7 months ago
@patriot1320 You clearly didn't understand his argument. TB gave a logical syllogism against the existence of God, or at least against a common definition of God. TB is an atheist and so am I. Did you even watch the video before posting? It seems like you just assumed he was giving an argument for a god and then didn't even bother to listen to the argument. This wouldn't be good behavior even if TB was a Christian apologist.
BrooklynRagtag 7 months ago
Heck, if angels in heaven have both free will and utmost happiness, why can't humans? Given that heaven, if it is by definition the most desirable state of existence for a human, must be devoid of suffering, then does this mean that there is no free will in heaven, according to Christians who attempt to refute the problem of evil? If so, then how can heaven meet the standards of its definition?
ThatGuyWithHippyHair 8 months ago
Christians think that suspending a natural disbelief is the same as acquiring a supernatural belief. This leads to: 1. Changing what normally would be "seeing is believing" into "believing is seeing". 2. Self-validating second-hand hearsay to call it first-hand revelation. 3. Taking authority as the truth instead of taking truth as the authority. 4. Failing to see the only difference between a ventriloquist & prophet is suspension of disbelief by the latter's audience to hear what they want to.
MySocksSmell2 9 months ago
You make an excellent point in regards to knowledge and the negation of free will.
Christians love to argue that if their god made himself known this would cancel out free will; we would no longer be compelled to choose. What a steaming pile of BS this is!!
They fail to see that if their god made himself known, this would prove the existence of the supernatural and only serve to strengthen the beliefs of those who worship other deities. New religions would be born and new gods created.
nosajj12345 9 months ago
Have you read John Hicks "Soul-Making Theodicy"?
Bobdillos 9 months ago
I wish the world were filled with more minds like yours.
Joseph10805 10 months ago
@Joseph10805 I thought like the christians do. I didn't watch the history channel cause I was scared them talking about how the world was billions of years old would change my beliefs. Well it did. Sigh. But all people could think like this. I think they are scared to though. And I think they just simply ignore it and try to make excuses. But that doesn't make it real.
BatliciousBatgirl 8 months ago
I wish the world were filled with more minds like yours.
Joseph10805 10 months ago
I guess I'm a little confused as to how the quote by Pascal is the launching point for your argument. If I understood the quote correctly Pascal said that: 1) God is hidden, and any religion that says otherwise is untrue and 2) any religion that does not explain why does not instruct. Obviously Pascal believed Christianity to be the type of religion that espoused a hidden God AND had an explanation for why He is so, or else I would think Pascal wouldn't be a Christian in the first place.Right?
rogersreel 1 year ago
This is an argument I had half-formed in my mind. Good to see it fleshed out.
ByTor190 1 year ago 2
And because nobody can claim to know anything about God, your stipulations about God (such as his omnipotence or omniscience or onmi-benevolence) cannot be used to prove his nonexistence.
thedudemanguyboy 1 year ago
A God that is either Evil or Fictitious? Those are precious few parameters, my friend. How about a God that just doesn't give a shit? How about a God who views people's belief in him open to interpretation?
In making your arguments, you assume that God is a simple being who can be defined by certain requirements and limitations which you state. It is simply the Christian belief that God is omni-benevolent, not the Christian fact. In all actuality, nobody can claim to know anything about God
thedudemanguyboy 1 year ago
There is one thing I never understood. As far as I was told growing up, humans had the sole prize of free will. No other creature had it, including his own angels. If that was a misunderstanding, tell me please. If not, how did any angel rebel including the Morning Star? As far as not making his presence known, that is, in itself taking away free will since we don't have the choice to worship him if we don't even know he exists.
skywize 1 year ago
I've used an argument similar to this before, but this actually helps me out -- separating clearly the knowledge from the belief.
Devil's advocate:
Unfortunately, I think to the extent that Mysterious Ways is valid (it isn't really), it applies to this. Suppose God also knows what choices you will make when you finally do know X. Perhaps all he's doing is waiting for just the right moment. Perhaps some people would never have accepted it, so it's immaterial whether or not they know...
SanityInAnarchy 1 year ago
Just because non-believers exist doesn't mean that God doesn't exist. Your non-belief is a result of your free will.
SummerSunshine1988 1 year ago
@SummerSunshine1988 Jump to 6:03, he brings up that very issue.
Please do comment again after watching from that point, i would really like to hear what you have to say about it.
FurieMan 1 year ago
@FurieMan : According to Romans 1, this guy has everything he needs in order to believe. He already knows that God exists. He simply chooses not to acknowledge that God exists.
SummerSunshine1988 1 year ago
Not all Christians believe that non Christians go to hell, including Catholics. In the catechism, it states that non Christians can go to heaven. Since the Catholic Church is the original Christian Chruch and was the only Christian Church for a long time, it's fair to say that at it's roots, Christianity does not condemn non Christians, although the idea that non Christians go to hell has become a common belief among modern Christians.
WhenPeonsAttack 1 year ago
The qoute you used makes no sense bro God has accourding to the Bible revealed himself in all the Creation dude who wrote is must not have ever read the Bible.
BrandonClapp74 1 year ago
LOL so because you dont believe God dont exist lol dude you have fallen off the crazy wagon I mean argue Evolution or Science but bro this is funny lol Yeshua does not need you to believe to be real and its your choice bro.
BrandonClapp74 1 year ago
why don't we show ourselves to ant at the farm? why don't we explain who we are and what we are doing? or that rAt stuck in maze?
afghanrebel1 1 year ago
@afghanrebel1 the analogy fails because *we* aren't capable of speaking to ants in a way they'd understand directly, but God himself-ominpresent, eternal, all-powerful- has been demonstrated (if you believe the Bible) to speak to *us* directly. He hasn't, at least he hasn't in these times. Or if he has, his method seems to be indistinguishable from schizophrenia or the internal thought processes, tendencies and biases of the particular worshiper God is supposedly speaking to at the time.
drusillathetinsmith 1 year ago
We can't speak to ants in a way they can undeniably unequivocally understand. God should be able to speak to us in a way that we undeniably unequivocally could. (He can do anything, right?) He has not.
drusillathetinsmith 1 year ago
@afghanrebel1 Probably because whether or not the ants or the rat are aware of our existence is inconsequential both to us and them. According to Christian theology, the awareness of God's existence is not inconsequential.
Arkalius80 1 year ago
my logic decrees that 8:45 to 8:51 "god is either evil or fictitious" well we've heard that sound byte a billion times too. Though it is always arrived at the outworkings of logic based on what you (man) think "should" happen to save souls. I am with certainty that a being, "if we so label him/her god", that qualifies as supreme being (the definition of god...generic dictionary) probably has a billion times more clarity on reality as to arrive at the best plan through vastly superior logic.
hexusziggurat 1 year ago
You didn't call it.... ^-^
OneInAMillionFaces14 1 year ago
i believe the idea of burning in hell if u do bad things was originated by the high priests in ancient times, to control society, because the high priests were very trusted and believed so everyone believed them and it continued all the way to today
victoryX4 1 year ago
@victoryX4 Actually, when the Jews were being persecuted in ancient times they invented heaven and hell to give their religion an appeal, and to prevent people from converting/leaving their faith.
The argument against this is that there was an 'enlightened' messiah later on spreading messages about their faith from God himself, and heaven and hell were a part of this message.
Toms2bomb 1 year ago
WOW. Extremely well said. *Subscribes*
quixotical07 1 year ago
yay my thumbs up made it become 999 thumbs up. upside down that becomes...
Anyway I think there may be three options to why God's plan is as bad as it is besides God being evil or not existing at all, and that is that God is really really stupid to come up with this retarded plan to save every soul.
Nails077 1 year ago
I'd like to point out that the ones who haven't heard the word of God will be spared. Unlike you, who openly try to work logic into the equation. Faith has absolutely nothing to do with logic. That's not saying those who have faith are without logic. What you say throughout many of your videos is simply this, "it doen't seem logical, therefore it cannot be."
ekalbborecky 1 year ago
out of curiosity, where do you get the idea of omni-benevolence?
bofumytofu 1 year ago
@bofumytofu I think its a less awkward way of saying "perfectly good", or "as good as you can get".
playerwithfaith 1 year ago
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Skelros 1 year ago
i just want to say,
one of the greatest living philosophers i've heard
orionmetzger 1 year ago
I never understood the freewill argument. I know that L. Ron Hubbard existed, but I still choose not to check my Thetan levels.
Jonstern1983 1 year ago
Wow. You wrapped that up quite nicely. Great video.
jamesgaspard 1 year ago 27
There are more possibles than evil or fictitious. He could not be all knowing, or all powerful. He could just be careless or stupid. We could have it backwards, and god lives in a warm and loving place called hell, and he did give us all the motivation we need to get there....
Good video, thanks.
SpamSpamNEggs 1 year ago
I like pointing out the oh so many contradictions in the bible to Christians. If Satan is the father of lies, doesn't it stand to reason that God is the father of truth? Then why does the "word of god" contradict itself many many many times? Truth doesn't contradict itself. Because if it did, it wouldn't be truth.
Ask a Christian this, and if they ask what contradictions,go to
the thinking atheist . com
for a list of the bibles contradictions.
Watch them repeat bible verses over and over
subjer0 1 year ago 3
Comment removed
stephen212 1 year ago
Actually, knowing that God did exist 100% would be better for "free will" then not. Then you could choose to follow him and his ways, or not.
As it stands now, it's not free will at all, it's forced belief - or eternal damnation!
Yes, you actually have to force yourself to believe with no evidence in order to be "saved". Wow how loving of HIM! sigh.
PaxOfMind 1 year ago 47
@PaxOfMind I agree with you 100%
PinkYui16 1 year ago
@PaxOfMind But it's the same either way. Knowing there is 1 god 100%and also knowing that if you chose not to worship him you'd go to Hell isn't free will. That is sheer stupidity.
ekalbborecky 1 year ago
@PaxOfMind Yes. Also the definition for free will is the ability to make decisions without threats and coercion. I hope i spelled that right. Also if god can't intervene... then why do people say he answers their prayers. How is this possible? I actually just thought of that one.
BatliciousBatgirl 8 months ago
Your use of 1 Timothy 2:4 seems to misrepresent the verse. The passage makes mention not to each and every individual person, but to all kinds of people to be saved and come to the truth.
Believer1993 1 year ago
@Believer1993 False, It says EXACTLY "who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." As shown here: bible.cc/1_timothy/2-4 .htm
PinkYui16 1 year ago
forrykid 1 year ago
talk about earning a subscription
do0me0nice 1 year ago 4
least importantly he was a christian.
do0me0nice 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Evil or Fictitious, or BOTH!!!
heronemisis123 1 year ago
Evil or fictictious.... or BOTH!!!!
heronemisis123 1 year ago
Read the book. Start from the beginning. By the time you get to the talking snake you know you are dealing with a myth.
SamWiseGingy 1 year ago 3
@SamWiseGingy The bible? lol... for sure... :-) ..and it only gets worse from there...
bttrflykiss7701 1 year ago
You theoretical proof is faulty. The first two premises leads to a faulty conclusion. You cannot go from
All M are P.
All M are S.
and conclude with anything but
Some S are P.
Your last two premises do not support your final conclusion because you are proving yourself into a existential fallacy.
barrinmw 1 year ago
this is "Bullshit"
VyckRo 1 year ago
I will destroy the whole thing. God has allowed his presence to be covered up by fallen angels and lucifer in order to test his creation's freewill of choosing either ignorance or indifference to such a huge evil presence. The ones who want to find out about their enemy are the ones who will come to the word of god in the last days(which we are in).
taylorsickler123 1 year ago
@taylorsickler123 So, God creates free will, granting the ability to choose whatever we want, then God says "You must pick this path, or you will be tortured for all time." That's not a choice, that's a tyrannical demand.
If God "allowed his presence to be covered up by fallen angels," that means God allowed Evil to exist, something an all good god would never do.
The Montanists of the 2nd century thought they were in the last days. Your claim about the last days is no more valid than theirs.
lhvinny 1 year ago 2
@taylorsickler123 Please tell me you aren't serious...
bttrflykiss7701 1 year ago
The Bible separates itself from all other religious texts by prophecy. This is the fingerprint of God, it is what makes Christianity very different indeed.
Freewill is not in this equation here, this is just confusing matters for you. It is our sin that separates us from God, we could not see God in all His glory and then live, this is what the Bible teaches us. God is perfect and holy and we are not. The Bible also teaches a 1st & 2nd coming of Messiah (twice).
laurapaloozza 1 year ago
...Your question is answered in a parable of Jesus’. The rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16) the rich man asks that Lazarus be sent to his brothers to warn them “so that they will not also come to this place of torment”. In this parable Abraham replies “They have Moses and the prophets let them listen to them.” also he says "If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead."
God uses His word and his people to reach out.
laurapaloozza 1 year ago
@laurapaloozza How do you know the bible is god's word?
bttrflykiss7701 1 year ago 2
@bttrflykiss7701 Hi there, we know it is God's word because of the accuracy of the prophecies. The prophecies are specific with no margin for error. It is written of God's word: "I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please." (Isaiah 46:10) Check out my top fave video on my channel. It is a very specific & interesting messianic prophecy - I think it would be good for you to see it.
laurapaloozza 1 year ago
@laurapaloozza
Oh piffle. Talking walking snakes, angels, heaven, hell, wizards, blocks of salt, magic potions, and wholesale violations of natural law mean one thing, you are dealing with mythology.
Pretending something is rational doesn't make it rational.
SamWiseGingy 1 year ago
Or perhaps we do not know "x" because we are not seeking to identify and/or understand "x." "Fallen angels," most notably Lucifer, did not opt to "fall." Their position within the Heavenly Host was not enough for these agents of God, so they sought to supplant God in Heaven, and in their lust for power were cast out of paradise to exist in the dolorous pride they hoped to attain while still in communion with God. Or perhaps human beings are not equipped to "know" the divine plan, so we seek...
MageSutek 1 year ago
...answers wherever they can be found. Incidentally, God has made himself known to humanity in a number of ways. We typically find accounts of God existing through the works of human beings or through the presence of the Blessed Mother or the Holy Spirit. Some examples include, but are not limited to, the vision of Our Lady of Guadeloupe by Juan Diego, the vision of Our Lady of Lourdes, or the vision of Our Lady of Fatima. There is proof of God all around us. We choose to see or not to see.
MageSutek 1 year ago
@MageSutek If there is this supposed "evidence", then it is not faith. What is the difference between God making us believe in him from birth and God coming down to show himself as a "vision" and declare his existence? Either way, the conclusion of the existence of God is not a faith-based view; it is inherently empirically-based, negating the very purpose of the religion.
xnightwishx18 1 year ago
There is evidence in select cases, and I suspect that is what you would need in order to believe that God exists. A satisfactory evidentiary standard is present with a preponderance of the evidence we do have. Believers need not have clear and convincing evidence in order to substantiate their claims. Nor does there have to be proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Esotericism and spirituality would cease being what they are if they were held to that standard. Faith is not eliminated simply because...
MageSutek 1 year ago
...there are cases in which evidence is available. There is a significant difference between God "making" us believe in him from birth and God manifesting himself through a vision or other type of physical intercession. One would remove the element of God's gift of freedom of choice whereas the latter would keep that element intact. But I cannot agree with your assertion that God's existence is possible outside a faith-based view. If God's existence was inherently empirically based, there...
MageSutek 1 year ago
@MageSutek "God "making" us believe in him from birth ... would remove the element of God's gift of freedom of choice"
I'd like you to explain how having this knowledge implanted within us would inhibit our freedom of choice. Can you give me an example of a choice we could make without this knowledge that we could not possibly make with it?
Arkalius80 1 year ago
I was referring to the human capacity/ability to know God with or without access to empirical data presenting one with direct evidence of that said existence. Having reframed what I had written in several other posts, I would think that would be sufficient to answer you query. If you are asking how an "innate" knowledge of God's existence would either impair or enhance our ability to make choices in life, indeed choices of our own volition, I cannot give you an example, as I do not...
MageSutek 1 year ago
...think things work that way. My implicit remark of removing choice from the equation if we were to be born with an innate and unshakable belief in God would eliminate rather than inhibit our freedom of choice as it pertains to one's belief in God. However, since I do not think this is the way things work, and that people choose to believe or not to believe, the issue is not really a debate as far as I am concerned. It is an interesting thought though. Gay men and women are being persecuted...
MageSutek 1 year ago
@MageSutek It's hard for me to figure out exactly what you're saying with your comments... What one believes is not subject entirely to the will. You do not get to simply choose what you are and are not convinced of. I'm not sure if you're saying you agree with that sentiment, or disagree.
Arkalius80 1 year ago
Sorry if I am being confusing in my responses. I would agree that what one believes is not entirely subject to one's will alone, although I believe that is the case with some "things" in one's life. However, I don't follow why one can't simply choose what one is convinced of and what one is not convinced of; such things are easily overcome through presentation of fact. I am convinced that there are exceptions to both topics, so my answer is I both agree and disagree, which is likely not helpful.
MageSutek 1 year ago
@MageSutek There is a complex interplay between our cognitive inputs and our conscious desires and will. To say that one's beliefs are entirely involuntary would be incorrect, just as it would be to say that we simply decide what to believe in every case. A person can profess a belief without actually holding it, and eventually end up believing it in some sense. There is one line of thinking in Christianity where someone should act as if they believe until they receive the gift of faith.
Arkalius80 1 year ago
@Arkalius80 I agree that one's beliefs are not entirely involuntary. A person can indeed profess a belief without actually holding it, although there is usually a separate motive in doing so. I suppose it is reasonable to say that one could eventually end up believing it, although doing so perhaps belies one's initial feigned avowal of belief. I do not know much about this "one line of thinking" you mentioned. I submit that you either have faith or do not have faith. Kids might be an exception.
MageSutek 1 year ago
@MageSutek Well I'm not a theologian, but I believe it was Thomas Aquinas who developed the idea. As I remember it (perhaps incorrectly), faith wasn't something anyone can just "have", it was a gift from God when he felt you're ready. Those who had not yet received this gift ought to live as if they believed and in time, it would come to them. Cognitively, this does two things. It creates more professing believers, and it directs a person's cognitive biases toward finding reasons to believe.
Arkalius80 1 year ago
...en masse in the US because their straight counterparts insist that "being gay" is a choice, and that one's sexual identity can be turned on and off. No matter how many gay people speak out that they did not choose to be gay, but were rather born gay, it never seems to be enough for those in the majority. It is an interesting dichotomy. Many people insisting they are not like the rest, and shunned because of it. Many people of faith shunned because they cannot "prove" their beliefs have merit.
MageSutek 1 year ago
...would be insufficient evidence to make an empirical claim that God exists. Faith is essential in the continuity of belief. I am frankly disinterested in religion, as I believe that institutionalized religion serves to distance humanity from God more than it does not. I did not always believe this, and perhaps that is a failing on my part, but I can believe in God without empirical data proving His existence. That would be my faith that He exists. Whatever your opinions on religion, it...
MageSutek 1 year ago
@MageSutek The only thing I got out of what you are saying is that 'God' only exists in your mind. Correct me if I'm wrong.
imafoolhahaha 1 year ago
It is a shame that is all you got out of my posts. Maybe rereading them would prove fruitful, although it is entirely possible you just are not going to get anything from them. I suspect your inability to derive meaning or substance from what I wrote has more to do with your beliefs and how they likely differ from my own. However, if what you got from my writing is that "God only exists in [my] mind," then you did miss the point. That is okay though, as I appreciate the views of others openly.
MageSutek 1 year ago
@MageSutek I agree. I basically didn't even pay attention to what you read, I skimmed and made a false assumption. So I'm sorry for that x'[
imafoolhahaha 1 year ago
No worries dude. Blessed be.
MageSutek 1 year ago
...is much harder to disprove God's existence to the faithful than it is to disprove God's existence to churchgoers. These days there is an indelible separation between the two groups, even if the faithful believe that the churches can again espouse true belief through faith alone. Sadly, they have lost this ability in many capacities. I would argue that religion has played an empirically antithetical role in the preservation of faith through faith alone, and yet my faith has not wavered. Weird!
MageSutek 1 year ago
I've wondered about that...satan having been in the very presence of God and still choosing to rebel? Over "feelings" ?? And the fact that God seems at one point to have all this action going on with man and then withdrawing ?? people suffering, God has the power to stop things, but doesn't ??Believers have these same questions but deny themselves the truth because to question, to doubt is to lack faith. Then there's hell to look foward to. Very cruel if you ask me. Loved your video buddy.
SuckaFreeSista1313 1 year ago
Evil, fictitious, or an incompetent jerk!
triftenC 1 year ago
Good work. Thank you for posting this. With how much religion is an ingrained portion of society, it is great to be able to know that I am not alone in my thoughts on these topics. I think that we (the non believers) do credit unto each other when we speak our minds because we edify each others thought processes and solidify our position through this discourse. Thanks again. Well rehearsed and simply flawless. Rock n roll.
jamminjh37 1 year ago
hey scott dont know if my video sent....please contact me want to talk to you ...my name is Armand and my e mail is fadgadget7@yahoo.com ....i love to talk about religion and philosophy and thought you brought up some amazing points, i have a much different perspective than most people and would love to talk to you ...i bring up the same points you do and people get mad at me ...my perspective is much different than most athest and christians would love to share with you ...Armand
fadgadget76 1 year ago
Who told you the unsaved burn in hell living? Did you eat of the tree of life? Are you aware that the choice is listed in Romans 6:23? Do you not know that Luke 12:5 is explained by Matthew 10:28? Hell was made for the devil and his angels. They have eaten of the tree of eternal life. Who knows what warnings they got prior to such behavior of eating of that tree?
ReligionOfSacrifice 1 year ago
Why do you devote so much time to "disproving christians" dude? What in the world did they ever do to you that you have countless videos where you try to use logic to tear down the foundations of a very large and for the most part peaceful group of people? They believe what they do, and I can gaurantee you that your logic games are doing nothing but hardening atheists against christians. You're creating a divide dude, and if you even read this, I hope you take some serious time to think about it
westpsmity 1 year ago
@westpsmity dude, the point of the video is not to attack christianity. It is simply trying to help others free themselves from the shackles of religion. If there might be someone who is somewhat questioning their faith, this video could help them figure out the truth. That we don't know whether or not a god exists, but it is extremely unlikely.
Do you have any idea how pretentious it is to claim to know the absolute truth about the mysteries of the world?
MasterDebator809 1 year ago
@MasterDebator809 A lot of my comment is reflecting on what you see in the comment section here. Not once have I seen "well maybe my religion is wrong..." or anything remotely along that line. The only comments are either a) I'm a Christian and you're wrong or b) I'm an atheist and you're right. I understand what he's trying to do, but in practice I don't believe he's doing anything but further defining boundaries between people.
westpsmity 1 year ago
actually. if you date back to sumerian culture, they did exactly what you are speaking about. they knew there were gods, no questions asked. no arguements. It's pretty illogical to be athiest to be honest. we all have a unique gene to reason that CANNOT have been "taught" over evolution. or else cats and dogs would be in line for a mocha latte at ur starbucks today. every religion is fabricated to their own liking from sumerian text. its proven fact. alas ignorance is bliss...poor ppl.
jakksincorpse 1 year ago
Respond to this video...g
spedmaster69 1 year ago
This post would have made sense were it not for Jesus Christ. He is God made flesh. He claims to be God. He lived among men. He is a historical figure. He was crucified for our sins and He was resurrected from the dead. We are living in 2010 A.D (after Christ's birth) 'X' is Jesus Christ. 'X' is God CHOOSING to be a finite human like us. How much more clear can this get?
jouljert 1 year ago
@jouljert Jesus the "historical figure", if he existed, had nothing to do with a God in human form. The historicity of Jesus doesn't say anything about his godly nature. That's like saying that *you* are God because I can find your birth certificate. "2010 A.D." is something that Christians came up with years after that (supposed) historic Jesus walked the Earth. It doesn't say *anything* about Jesus himself.
How much more clear can this get?
XXIstCenturyBoy 1 year ago
@jouljert what indisputable evidence is there that Jesus was and did everything the Bible claims? What form of dissemination has been put in place to make sure every human on the planet knew about this event from the moment of his resurrection? What messianic prophecy did Jesus fulfil that could not have simply been intentionally fulfilled or historically fudged? What should be clear is that you have a looooooong way to go with that argument.
ArcaneLogic 1 year ago
@CasperTheMeanieGhost its an ad hominem because instead of explaining why his argument is wrong, youve just accused him of having a biased opinion.
and yes, you CAN convince a holucaust denier, ive done it!
Ilikenuman 1 year ago
@Ilikenuman Let me ask u a question ...
If the evidence for God were ON PAR with the evidence for the holocaust,WOULD THERE STILL BE ATHEISTS???
CasperTheMeanieGhost 1 year ago
@CasperTheMeanieGhost if i was betting money on it id say thered be a hell of a lot less.
it takes more evidence to convice people of different things. some people have never researched the holucaust and just believe it without researching it, and some people will take an awful lot of convincing. BUT, if there was physical evidence and historical records of it (like the holucaust has), then yes there would be less atheists.
Ilikenuman 1 year ago
@Ilikenuman I didn`t ask u if there would be less.i asked u if there would STILL be atheists.
Basically,no matter how obvious something is,there will STILL be people who deny it.
CasperTheMeanieGhost 1 year ago
@CasperTheMeanieGhost
"no matter how obvious something is", yes but HOW is it obvious? throughout the entire conversation you didnt explain how it was obvious atall?
i could just as easily say to you, "you dont want to be held accountable to allah, some people no matter how obvious you make it to them that islam is true, will just never accept allah because they are biased".
but that wouldnt be fair atall would it? so you shouldnt say it either.
Ilikenuman 1 year ago
@Ilikenuman The statement u just made about islam is COMPLETELY accurate.the fact that there are people who reject islam has no bearing on whether or not islam is true.LIKEWISE,the fact that there are people who reject christianity has no bearing on whether or not christianity is true.
Do u deny that no matter how obvious theism is,there would STILL be atheists?
CasperTheMeanieGhost 1 year ago
@CasperTheMeanieGhost
nope. not atall.
some people just take more convincing but there is always a way of convincing people. Like if god appeared in front of the whole world right now and did loads of magic and showed without a shadow of a doubt that it wasnt just an illusion of special effects and showed people heaven for a little bit, or jesus appeared or the prophet mohammed returned for a little while. YES, absolutely everyone who saw it would believe it.
Ilikenuman 1 year ago
@Ilikenuman Sorry but ur wrong.
ALL of that can be explained away in an atheistic worldview.
Hell,there are hundreds of fatima sightings of a miraculous nature witnessed by huge amounts of people but i`m not a catholic.how about u?
CasperTheMeanieGhost 1 year ago
@CasperTheMeanieGhost Here`s a better question ... IF the evidence for God were ON PAR with the evidence for the actual existence of the universe,WOULD THERE STILL BE ATHEISTS???
(hint ... before u answer,realize that there really are 1 billion people who actually believe the universe doesn`t exist)
CasperTheMeanieGhost 1 year ago
@CasperTheMeanieGhost "1 billion dont believe the universe exists" wrong, they believe the universe exists only in their mind. so they still believe in a form of reality. and for all we know they could be right.
heres a qustion for you.
if there was as much evidence of a natural cause to the universe (no god) as there was that the universe existed. would there still be theists?
now, do you still believe that the man who made this video, is just in denial? or do you think hes being honest?
Ilikenuman 1 year ago