York Use - Credo from the York Masses

[NihilNominis]

Logically thinking person? Like St. Thomas Aquinas, perhaps? Or would you like to explain in greater depth the logic behind your masterful syllogism, "It sounds made up, therefore it is"?

How much of Physics sounds like bad science fiction? Yet it turns up as true.

[Vitrearum]

Do you have anything intelligent to say while you are here? Come on, surely you can do better than simply debunking Christianity as myth.

[FraterCyprianus]

Oh dear! I don't know why so many people rated my earlier comment negatively. There was nothing contentious in it. It was simply a statement of fact. The taperer on the south side is me. This is the 2004 reconstruction that we did. I was also the subdeacon at the 2008 reconstruction in Norwich. At one time, John had suggested that I be asked to be celebrant, and Allan was toying with the idea himself before he was ordained. These reconstructions are not intended as real masses. They are done...

[FraterCyprianus]

...in part for academic purposes, and so that people can learn something of the Christian liturgical heritage of Britain, whether for academic or for devotional purposes, and partly because it's fun. It's useful to have an ordained person as celebrant because such a person is usually more acquainted than most with how to behave at an altar but beyond that there's no other reason why the celebrants so far have all been Anglican clergy.

[allwasforanapple]

It is doubtful that this polyphony would have been sung in such a small parish church in York. A genuine (Catholic) Mass according to the Use of York should be celebrated in Ampleforth Abbey - with permission being sought from the Catholic Ordinary and the Holy Father. The Minster would be the ideal location, but the altar would have to be reconsecrated or a mensa brought in.

Perhaps the next time it's 'performed' boys and male altos should replace the women.

[FraterCyprianus]

You're likely right about the music. The most recent one was probably more authentic in that there were simply two clerks singing the propers and ordinary. I'm surprised nobody has commented on the authenticity of the taperers. One is black (me) and the other is female. I doubt that would have been authentic in 15th century York. Still, it was good fun.

[Winaska]

beautiful, but was this Church of England or Catholic under Anglican use?

[FraterCyprianus]

Neither. It was a reconstruction by the Gild of Clerks, which is a non-denominational special interest group.

[Winaska]

oh so it wasnt even a real service?

[Vitrearum]

Yes, to my mind it was a proper act of worship. One that hadn't been offered for many centuries, therefore required reconstructing both textually and visually.

[Vitrearum]

Thank you for your kind words. At 32 I too have become weary of the lack of timelessness and continuity in the liturgy. The liturgy of ages speaks to all generations, I think. As for the music, this was the first time it had been performed since before the English Reformation.

[TrainmasterCurt]

I think the English Use Altar looks more dignified than the Baroque type, Percy Dearmer always reccommended them

[mudws]

@TrainmasterCurt : I agree, although I miss the low reredos or riddel curtains that fit well with the low east window. I understand that All Saints once had these, but removed 'em.

[Vitrearum]

It isn't intended to be 100% accurate, but was intended to give a 'feel' of late medieval liturgy. If we had been entirely authentic it would have been necessary to rip up the fitted carpet and restore the medieval levels at the east end of the chancel.

[juggles20007]

I don't understand entirely isn't there a prayer for thepope even in the york usage. How did you as Anglicans get around this?

[TrainmasterCurt]

This mass is indeed the Roman Rite, according to the Use of York, but the church is CofE and is Anglo-Catholic, which is in communion with the See of Canterbury

[Vitrearum]

No, both the clergy and the church are part of the established church.

[Moneybags916]

Is this Mass in union with the Church of Rome?

[FraterCyprianus]

No. It was only an academic reconstruction and not intended as an actual offering of the mass. There was even talk of having a layman do it at one point.