The second death is the burial of the flesh and a new creation in Christ. If death and hell is all cast away permanently ,all the wickedness and unbelievers will be made righteousness.
Touching story.. and I'm sure many would love it if it were really true. But, the TRUTH of the matter is.. that "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son.. AND WHOSOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM shall not perish but, have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him MIGHT be saved.
@margovallen salvation, grace and faith are all the gifts of God and none "choose Christ" until he first gives that faith. (eph 2:8-9) no amount of preaching the word (sowing the seed) will profit anyone until God causes the word to grow (the parable in Mt 13) and it is God who causes the seed/word of the Gospel to grow (1 Cor 3:6) Salvation is wholly by grace and of God if anyone rejects Christ now it is because he has not YET given them faith.
@harasopia We hear the Gospel, the Holy Spirit speaks to us. We either yield to the Holy Spirit, repent and believe by Faith or we do not yield to the Holy Spirit, repent and believe by faith.. at that time. In various situations we may find ourselves in.. the Holy Spirit will speak to our hearts.. and will continue to speak to us until we either yield to the Spirit and follow through.. or we will not. There will come a time that the Holy Spirit will decide a person will not yield.
(cont) And the Holy Spirit will pull back and allow a "stiff-necked" individual to go on their own. We furnish our own Faith to believe. We have God-given Free-Will to accept or reject.
It's obvious that you are a follower of John Calvin... a simple man.. and heretic.
@margovallen I believe the scripture that tells us that faith is the gift of God and that it is God who causes the word to grow. i follow scripture not john calvin. john believes God will torment people in literal flames for eternity. I believe that Christ IS the savior of the world and not just the "attempted savior". Free will is not taught in scripture. Paul's will was not "free" in Romans 7. The believers will is not "free" in Phil 2:13. To be free is to be outside all influence and none are
@harasopia We "choose" to believe. Everybody has faith.. its already in us. We may pray to God and ask for Him to grow our faith.. but, "Belief" and "Faith" are synonymous.. as if we 'believe' something to be true, we are going on strong surmise without having seen it. It doesn't take 'belief' to know you have hands. You see them everyday.. you know you have them. It doesn't take 'Faith" to know you are breathing. But, it takes belief by faith to know you'll be breathing tomorrow.
(cont) God has given each and every human being Free-Will to choose. Philippians 2:13 is not even speaking of Salvation. Total depravity doesn't mean that we are all a bunch of reprobates. It means that we are all born with the stain of original sin and need persuasion via the Holy Spirit in which, can be heeded or ignored. Pauls will was not free in Romans 7? That is not speaking of Salvation. But, Pauls heart was right but, his flesh was week. He chose to sin.
@margovallen to be "free" is to be outside of all influence. Pauls will was influences by the sin dwelling in him and so his will was not "free". It is GOD working in us both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Again our will is not "free" here either. My point was that our wills are not "free" (outside ALL influence) and those scriptures show us that. Free will is not taught in Scripture. "as many as were ORDAINED to "eternal" (aionion) life believed" (Acts 13:48) Again GOD CAUSES...
@harasopia . Paul was indeed saved, yes? His whole point in Romans 7 has nothing to do with Buddhist philosophies.. or "being free from all outside influence".. Cosmic indeed.. lol! Nobody is like you suggest, dear.There is none who is without sin. Paul was human.. and showing his human weakness.
There are scriptures supporting Free-Will and "choosing." Do I need more than one?
How about John 3:15-18? ie. "Whosoever will".. suggesting choice. The Gospel message in a nut-shell :-)
(cont) Also.. Mark 16:16, John 20:31, Acts 16:31, Romans 10:9, 1 John 3:23 and 1 John 5:13 have no meaning without the free will of mankind. God calls upon mankind to believe in Christ because mankind has the free will to believe or reject Christ. God would have no reason to call upon mankind to believe if mankind were in a state of Total Depravity or Total Inability to respond.
@margovallen Again there is no doubt scripture tells us to believe but where does the faith come from? Not out of our own ability. Christ is the "AUTHOR AND FINISHER" of our faith.(Heb 12:2) God has the power to influence a will to go one way or another. We see it in the story of pharoh, joseph's brothers and the king of asyria. If he can influence them he can influence all to "see the light" whenever he so chooses. There is no "free" will that can thwart him and he wills that ALL be saved.
@harasopia Jesus is the author & finisher of Faith, indeed! Meaning that Jesus Christ is the first and the last, as an example of faith or of confidence in God. He has set the example and we take our own faith (which we provide) and direct it in the same manner as He did. His example is the pre-eminence.. and is the most complete model that can be placed before us. If God "wills" that all be saved then, why are their people in Hell? It's because WE must have that same WILL as God has.
(cont) And per the "every knee shall bow / every tongue confess" thingy is ALL will acklowedge that Jesus is Lord, not in a saving faith sense, but by a 'mental assent' to this truth... as even satan and his demons are fully aware of the fact that Jesus IS Lord.. and they will be part of "EVERY."
The scripture is not saying that everyone will be saved.
@margovallen there is no doubt that we are told to believe in Scripture AND EVERY tongue will confess Jesus is Lord and believe that he is risen frome the dead. BUT where does the faith come frome? It comes from God. God also gave the Jews the law of Moses and told them to obey it and yet we know from Scripture that "the Law is the power of sin" and that man is not even capable of subjecting to the law (Rom 8:7) Here also God tells us to do something we can't WITHOUT him.
@harasopia You are totally preaching to the choir with what you're saying here, hon... other than where we get our faith. We must supply our own Faith. Granted, we may pray and ask God to "strengthen" the faith that we already have (if we have it).. but, 'faith' is what we bring to the table. Think about this : Per say, John 3:16-18.. "whosoever believes".. those of whom 'believe' because they 'want' to believe.. and they therefore, 'choose' to believe.. and its through THEIR faith.
(cont) Do you think we have the very same 'faith' as Jesus Christ had/has? He tells us in MATTHEW 17:20 "Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of MUSTARD SEED ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you." He is speaking to His Disciples. Men of faith, not unbelievers. If they'd gotten their faith from Him, theres no need for the conversation in the first place.
@margovallen In Romans 7 Paul was speaking of himself before CHRIST converted him. Again my point is our will is not "free" as you say but influenced by outside forces. In the case of Romans it was the sin dwelling in Paul. If Pauls will was "free" he could have choosed to do the good he "willed" and not the evil that he did not "will". After coming to Christ (through the GIFT of faith) our will is influenced by God "it is GOD working in us to WILL AND DO according to his pleasure.
@harasopia Think so? Remember, there is no change in ones 'nature' after we experience the New Birth. Theres change in our minds and attitudes.. but, we are still human.. and what is the human nature? Sinful. The natures of the believer and the unbeliever are identical. Paul states in Romans 7:6, (speaking in the present-tense) "But NOW we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter."
(cont) In Romans 7:1-5.. Paul is referring back, before his and his congregations conversions (he's addressing believers) to how things WERE... and verses 6-25 is present-tense.. AFTER conversion :-)
Honey, I cannot stress enough.. God has given His Creation free-will to choose. I sincerely hope you understand that God can only work with 'willing hearts'.. no one is going to be saved whom does not desire to be saved.
(cont) Something else of importance : Paul wrote about his experiences in Romans 7 17 years after his experiences occurred. He had not quite gotten out of the 'Pharisee' mind-set / 'habit' of striving to not sin. He was saved but, had not fully realized the fact that, he was indeed truly dead to the law and sin. Hence, his conflict and struggles. But, in Romans 8.. all that had changed as he then had learned to "let go and let God"..getting his eyes off of 'self' and onto Christ.
I MUST CLARIFY SOMETHING HERE (SURPRISED YOU HAVEN'T JUMPED ON IT LIKE WHITE ON RICE, ALREADY.. LOL!)
BUT, THERE IS NO 'IMMEDIATE'.. OR INSTANTANEOUS CHANGE IN OUR NATURE AFTER OUR EXPERIENCING A NEW-BIRTH. ITS A PROCESS THAT USUALLY ACQUIRES OVER TIME.
@margovallen (cont) the word preached to grow.we who believe Scripture are begotton not of the will of man but OF GOD. (John 1:13) "Not you choose me (Jesus) but I choose you" (john 15:16)
@harasopia The scripture is clear on Hell, OK? Did it ever occur to you that "denial" is not just a river in Egypt?
If you don't believe in Hell as the Bible explains it, that makes you an UN-believer. An accurate understanding of scripture and doctrine is paramount to Salvation. Are we clear?
@margovallen our translations certainly make hell appear to be a place of conscious torment for "eternity". BUT when you study the original Greek and Hebrew text (as I hope God puts it in your heart to) it is nothing like what we have been taught in our most TRANSLATIONS. I believe the Scriptural "hell". I agree that once you see the truth in Scriptre and yet cont. disbelieving that would make you an unbeliever.
@harasopia Haha! Nice try, sweetie-pie! Utilizing my own methods of reasoning on myself... LOL! I am starting to find you incredibly adorable! But, alas.. lots of incredibly adorable people whom are incredibly lost. Unless you are able to fluently speak, read and write in Aramaic, Greek and/or Hebrew, you are really in no position to accurately study the scriptures written in those languages. If they've been "modernly" translated, you are just plainly reading just another translation.
(cont) In fact, you'd fare way, way much better to stick with the King James Version. Frankly, I don't trust 'modern translations' of Gods Word. Many of them are from the pit of Hell in their corruption. And I am able to see that you are on a path of dire-woe destruction.. and sadly, for whatever reason(s).. you refuse to listen (read, comprehend and accept) Biblical TRUTHS I'm sharing with you, despite my providing ample scripture.
@margovallen what you share is what you've learned from your translation (kjv?) this translation has gone thru many corrections and is not perfect. You don't have to be know the entire Greek/Hebrew languages to look up the original words and trace their usage in scripture to get a good understanding of them. Many who are adept in both will tell you what I am about the mistranslating of "hell" and the words translated "eternal" forever, etc. You should really do some research on these words...
@harasopia I have looked up many different terms in the Greek and Hebrew, dear. I know how to study.I don't mind taking instruction, constructive criticism.. or even, correction. But, please don't think you're dealing with a novice. Practically all I do most days of the week are read/study Gods Word and practice guitar. Sometimes, I read other things of interest on the Internet. I am no longer considered young.. but, middle-aged.
(cont) Sometimes, I read other things of interest on the Internet in order to learn about them. I am no longer considered young but, middle-aged. I have had many discussions and debates with many different types from atheists, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Seventh-Day Adventists, satanists and a garden-variety of "Christians" whom chop up the Word of God into little pieces with their so-called "Interpretations" straight from the pit.
@margovallen at least we are the same in our study habits. :) except I actually studied "hell" and the words translated eternal, forever, etc :P (a little joke) i can see you are no "baby Christian".
@harasopia Respectively, doll.. you're going to study Hell up close and personal.. aka a one-way educational "field-trip" if you don't allow the Holy Spirit to lead and guide you into what God intends for you. I think (know) that I am correct on all issues we've covered. While spotting several of your discrepancies that will cause you to perish. One of us is right.. not both. Theres only one way that is acceptable to God in our interpretations of the scriptures. W/o the HS we miss it.
@margovallen (cont.) Based on the scriptures I gave you and many others I am convince that God alone is the Savior, there is no "free will". I don't think we will agree on this apparently. :) Isaiah 46:10, 14:24 tells us that God has said FROM THE BEGINNING that he does ALL his pleasure and ALL that he purposes he does. Why did Christ come? What was his purpose? 1Jn 4:14, 1 Tim 1:15, Lk 19:10. Saving the world was his pupose and his pleasure...
@harasopia Grace is by Faith and that it is a Gift of God.. not of our own doing. We have the free-will to accept or reject it. Those are our choices in which God has allotted us. Christ dies for all. Offered the Gift of Grace to all. Not all accept it. Not everybody gets saved. If Gods will and the will of man don't match up, man loses in that respect. Christs death on the Cross made it possible for all to be saved. But, it didn't save everyone because NOT EVERYONE WILL RECEIVE IT.
@margovallen because you believe in "free will" (which is not supported in scripture) you cannot believe Is 46:10, 14:24. There is no point in trying to convince you about what "hell" is or isn't until you study it for youself (go to the orginal Hebrew / Greek words). Until then I think we will just have to agree to disagree. :) If you would like to keep talking please message me, lest me "spam" up this page anymore! Thanks for your kindness.
@harasopia It IS supported in scripture and I've provided them. You are having trouble enough interpreting scriptures that U know are in the Bible. So, I could provide U scriptures on any topic and so, what good will it do? You have your mind made up via your corrupt understanding of the Word of God. I'm not trying to me mean but, U cannot be reasoned with nor stand truthful Biblical correction. Theres nothing more I can say or do. But, pray u'll find out the truth someday. Blessings!
@margovallen you didn't actually prove free will by your scriptures. God gave a law that we cannot keep apart from his enabling by grace. in the same way scripture also tells us to believe and also tells us where that faith comes from. our wills are influenced by sin, by God and many other things and so not "free". i see you do some study but I also see you have not done an in depth study on "hell" or the words translated forever etc. i wish many christians would b4 accusing those who have...
@margovallen (cont) of being "blind", "heretics" or "twisters of Scripture". It seems you do not believe Is 46:10 and 14:24 because it doesn't fit with your free will or your eternal hell and punishment doctrine. I believe these scriptures and I believe the original Hebrew/Greek text is "God breathed" and "trust worthy". I do not believe this is the case withh many of our translations including the KJV. All ne 1 needs 2 do is honestly study out these claims in Scripture...as many as he chooses:)
@harasopia In order for us to understand the passages in Isaiah that you've provided, contextual reading and studying are paramount! With that stated, God is speaking 'specifically' to Israel! And if we understand that, we will also understand the fact that, the reason(s) Israel has had so many 'trials and tribulations' is because of their 'DIS-obedience.' But, since they're "Gods Chosen People" God sees them to prevalence but, not without vast struggle via the 'CHOICES' they've made.
(cont) Through His allotment of free-will He has given not only to Israel.. but, every human-being.
Per your 'Hell' argument : What does it really matter if people are going to eternal damnation in Hell.. specifically, the Lake of Fire.. or not? If God tells us that we will either be with Him in Eternity... or just simply all alone, which would an individual want to do? You seem to toss around the 'KJV has been revised a lot' thingy.. so perhaps, you will be more specific? :-)
@margovallen nice try:) if you pay attent. to the words in Is 46:10 he says "saying" (when?) "from the beginning" (not just now in the context) "from the beginning" ALL his counsel (purpose, plans) STANDS (will be done) and ALL his delight he does. Is 14:24 Is the same. God has SWORN that whatever he plans and purposes STANDS and WILL BE DONE..
@harasopia Nice try? So, you're telling me that I am able to lead a horse to water but, cannot make her drink? ..lol!
God is Speaking to Israel in Isaiah! Which syllable are you not understanding, sweet-cakes? You're tinkling against the wind here, honey. If you think I'm mistaken, check it out via born-again Christians. Stay away from Universalism.
Just because we may "wish" something to be true.. because we are afraid what indeed IS TRUE.. is not going to make our wish come true.
@harasopia Why don't you answer my question, in lieu of doing a Watusi around it all? I know you hope like heck there is no Lake of Fire. Do you just plainly wanna skate through life, doing whatever suits your fancy and inherit the Kingdom of God? You love the idea that there is no eternal punishment for those of whom reject Christ? If you will believe the Word of God as its intended and stop fighting a lost cause and receive Christ, you have no worries. Otherwise, its 'WOE".. PERIOD!
(cont) Fact is, the words "Trinity" and "Rapture" aren't in the Bible either. But, being that we must utilize our 'working the equation of words' skills, ie. cross-referencing Scripture with Scripture, we see that the existence of both are factual. Surely, the terms are man-made.. but, the facts are still the same. The Bible uses the term "Godhead" for Trinity.. and the phrase "Christ shall return for His Bride" is the meaning of Rapture.. based on 1 THESSALONIANS 4.
(cont) Also, 1 Thessalonians 4 reveals that 'not everybody will be saved.' If you are looking for those "exact words".. as it seems you like o shoot for... you'll be gravely disappointed. If you take into consideration what I've said all along, it should not come as a surprise :-)
@margovallen "saying" (when?) from the beginning...Was Israel even a nation back then? It is from the beg. that he says HIS cousel stands and he does his delight/pleasure. Unless God has given you eyes to see and ears to hear u will cont. despising that vs. as well as "according to the purpose of Him who works ALL things according to the counsel of His OWN WILL." ePH 1:11 There is no "eternal" ne thing in the original text to prevent that. That isn't assumption but fact. Look it up sister.
@margovallen You can easily find the corrections made to the KJV. The removing of entire books is just one of many. Also the KJV was not taken entirely from "the original Greek/Hebrew but portions of came from the Latin Translation. I will give you a few errors that STILL remain. Even when "aion" appears in the the Greek in its plural form the KJV translates is "ever". If they didn't it would have to read "evers and (Grk is OF not and) evers. There is no such thing as "evers" or "eternals!
@harasopia I believe the whole Bible, including Isaiah. But, fact of the matter is, thats not what Isaiah is saying. So, my deal is not anything to do with disbelief but, "rightly dividing the Word of God" in which, I am able to do only through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. It does no one a bit of good if they' don't know what they're reading. Does that make sense? I'm sharing with you TRUTHS and you're seemingly more concerned about 'being right' even at the cost of your own soul.
@margovallen you are sharing with me your doctrine based on on an imperfect KJV. Confess with ur mouth Jesus believe in ur heart God raised him from the dead. Is this what it takes to b saved? Geuss what, I did this b4 I even studied the scriptural "hell" n "eternal" punishment! I believe what I do b cuz study not fear of "hell" 4 me or ne 1 else. Despite script. on how we come 2 b saved r u saying until I believe in ur fabled KJV eternal hell I m not saved? Balogna!
@harasopia "Attempted" Savior is a little out there. Christs death on the Cross caused "Universal Reconciliation" not 'Universal Salvation.' His death made it possible.. put us into the position where we are all able to be saved. We must have a WILL and CHOOSE to ACCEPT/RECEIVE it in order to have it.
Hello? "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him *MIGHT* be saved."
"Hmmmm .. wonder what could be hindering it? Let me seeeeee."
@margovallen I should tell you that the word "might" is not in the original Greek text. I might have been a l ittle shaken by your warning of my fiery doom if I still believed the KJV was an accurate translation. God is not hindered by our fabled puny "free will". I'm going to continue beliving those vs. I gave u in Isaiah. i think it is time for us to "let go and let God" now. ;)
@harasopia You know what? Why don't you take the Word of God by Faith and choose to believe what is written? The KJV is the most accurate translation by far of all the others.. taken straight from the Greek and Hebrew texts. When you listen to those of whom say things such as, "Umm the KJV has been mistranslated blah blah blah." Its the same old tools of satan trying any desperate way he can to deceive us.
God is Sovereign. But, even so.. He still doesn't "force" His Will.
(cont) Love does not force.. love does not insist on its own way. God loves us.. and God IS LOVE! He wants us to come to love Him for 'Him' not because He forces us.
Why don't you type in certain appropriate 'key' words and do an Internet search regarding this issue. Look at several different sites and make sure you look up the people whom are teaching on the sites, in so to not land (another) heretic. Thats a major part of my study regimen. A wonderful way of cross-referencing :-)
@margovallen WILL and LOVE are they the same? Because Jesus Christ revealed His LOVE for me, I couldn't help but love Him back, then His WILL is made perfect in Me right? Jesus Christ doesn't use His WILL to force people to serve Him, but His LOVE never fails 1 Cor 13:18 Gods love NEVER fails. God bless you friend. Jessica.
@jvsm1971 Will and Love are not the same. Gods Will for us is based on love, just as any parents will is based on their love for their children. Like our own parents can lead, guide and direct us with all the best intentions but, we have choices to either obey or not, usually with tough consequences. God loves us all the unsaved as well as the saved. Even though, the saved aren't His children. It's AGAPE love. The love I have for you and all mankind. There is no 1 Cor 13:18. Blessings!
@ma God will punish and judge all of us. We as believers bare the consequences to our own sin and rebellion and so too does the world and His death was for our sins, so God IS Just and Holy BUT unable to redeem almost all creation? I disagree. I believe He is ALL powerful ALL loving ALL forgiving to do it, to save every single one who is LOST.If just one is thrown into hell for ever and ever(I dont believe this is the truth) then Jesus Christ is NOT Saviour of the World but Saviour of a few.
@jvsm1971 Excuse me? Honey, not the God of the Bible! Jesus Christ took all of that upon Himself and bore our punishment for us.. for those of whom have made their profession of faith in Him. He's made that available to ALL.. through what He did on the Cross aka Universal Reconciliation.. but, we must repent and believe in Him as our own personal Savior, in order to have Eternal Salvation.
When the Rapture occurs, believers will be judged @ the Judgment Seat of Christ, on our deeds.
(cont) Whether good and bad in thought and actions. It will be a 'trial by fire'.. in which, those deeds that were not in Christ, will burn up and become ashes.. while those that withstand, will determine ones 'reward.' Heaven is NOT our reward.. as its a promise to those of whom believe in, trusting in Jesus Christ. Rewards are earned by our works, AFTER becoming a born-again believer.The Great White Throne of Judgment is for UN-believers in which, will go to the Lake of Fire.
One more thing : God works with willing hearts. Time and time again, in the Old Testament.. He is trying to get Israel to get with the program in so He can bless them as He had promised. "If you do this and this and this, I will do this and that" (paraphrasing, obviously). He's not a liar and has basically "painted himself into a corner" so to speak.. by sticking to His Word. The results of what we get from God, is based on our own decisions.. based on His promises.
(cont) "All loving" as God is.. and while He loves the UN-believer as well as, the believer. But, He has laid out a plan for us all.. and has made a way for us to not perish, IF we do what He has commanded in the 'believing in His Son, Jesus Christ'.. and if we do something other than that, the 'dividends' of our beliefs, won't yield what He has promised. Like baking a cake from a box... should we not read and follow the instructions, we will not get what is meant for us to get :-)
@margovallen You are right, He bore all the sins of mankind upon Him and made a way for us BUT dont you still struggle with sin? I do. Dont you still reap what you sow? I know I do. So does the Holy Spirit convict us daily of our sins and teaches us right from wrong? Yes the Spirit of God does this with us all, and though I am saved by what Jesus did, our Father must help us, teach us, show us how to DIE to the flesh which is done DAILY..
@margovallen It isn't the Word of God that I doubt, only the translations of it. The KJV has gone thru MANY revisions. If it was a perfect transl. that would have not been needed. ENTIRE books have been taken out of it. Do you believe Is 46:10, 14:24? If you do than how can you doubt that He will save the world, the lost, sinners? It says he does all he purposes n plans n delights.Christ came for the purpose of saving the world.
@harasopia No! Actually, the KJV is THE most accurate of any translations of the Holy Bible. So what, if it has gone through revisions? Do you thing those revisions are less accurate that the modern-day revisions/versions of the Bible? Please believe me when I tell you that in this day in time, the agenda is not to save souls but, to misdirect in order to deceive and cause people to perish. The books taken out would make up the Gnostic Gospels. Are you sure you really wanna go there?
@margovallen My point is you cannot rely on the KJV to be 100 percent accurate. If it were a perfect translation then they would never have had to make corrections or remove entire books from it. We can't base our doctirnes on any imperfect translation even if it were "the most accurate". Just because the KJV says so doesn't make it true. Sometimes we need to go to the original Greek/Hebrew text and study the usage of words. Usage is the best way of determining a words meaning.
@margovallen Also Scripture does not speak of "eternal", "everlasting" or "forever" punishment. The Greek is aionios and this word is used when speaking of the duration of things that have had both a beginning and an end (not eternal, forever, everlasting). It is also the adject. of aion which is an age (a period of time). No adjective has a greater force than the noun it is derived from. Trace these words in Script. and study their usage n you will see it.
@harasopia We can search for a translation of God's Word that suits our fancy. That doesn't mean that particular translation is accurate and/or of God. Whats your main beef? Where are you trying to go with all of this you're presenting as Biblical Truth? You must have some agenda. The Bible is what it is and says what it says irregardless of what it reads. Are you afraid that Hell is real and literal? Thats the point! You should be!
@margovallen I will leave you w/ this. Is there a sheol/hades "hell" where the dead are until the ressurection? Yes. R they consciously tormented there by ne thing? No. Is this hell eternal? No. Is there coming a judgment where men will be judged according to their works? Yes. Is this eternal? No.Ne one can confirm this by study. Or they can buy into ur doctrine based on faulty transl. and unwillingness (?) to look these things up. Those chosen to rule n reign w/ Christ will.
Isaiah 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid and fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? Isa. 66:22,23 in the new heavens and new earth then vs 24 And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. Ye must be born again or wind up here
@mwilson70201 note the word "carcases". also the words "the fire not quenched" is used in other places of scripture where the fire actually burned out...but not until it had accomplished its purpose. also look up the hebrew for "worm" and you find it is speaking of maggots. maggots and carcases go together like peas and carrots. Also this is refering to Gehenna/Vally of Hinnom, a place outside Jerusalem where city trash was burned and not hell where all the dead r till the ressurection. (ecl 9)
@harasopia *also the words "the fire not quenched" is used in other places of scripture where the fire actually burned out...but not until it had accomplished its purpose*
@harasopia The dead unbelievers are indeed in Hell waiting in their judgment in which, they will be cast into the LAKE OF FIRE! Don't try to game it dear. It is what it is and it is not pretty for those of whom reject Christ or believe heresies! Thats the absolute Biblical TRUTH! The lost cannot plead ignorance. Gods not going to listen to those of whom cry out "Lord I thought U meant blah blah blah!" He won't be interested! God puts people in our lives for a reason, dear! Coffees on!
@margovallen O Margo…Let’s say that despite the fact the Rev. is a book of symbols that the LAKE of fire is literal…How long r those not given faith there 4? The Greek says the aionS of aionS. An aion is an age (u can confirm this) and its in the plural! If the KJV didn’t ignore that it would say for everS of everS! They r not there forever. Stop basing ur “biblical truth” on the KJV.
@m some food for thought. I die 1st physically&as a believer I die to the flesh daily 2nd. The unbelievers resurrected on judgment day have already died -hence resurrection.They will be raised into immortal bodies &will SEE&BELIEVE Jesus Christ - no need for FAITH.They are cast into the Lake of Fire where they die to the old man Adam that they still have.This is the 2nd death.1Cor3:15 If ANY man's work shall be BURNED, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be SAVED; yet so as by FIRE.
Have you ever tried to burn a book? They all only singe around the edges if they are closed. He said a mouthful when he said he got a new god. I noticed he never mentions the new birth who needs it if we're all going to them same place.If he Though we or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel than that which we have preached let him be accursed. He has a new god & new gospel by his own admission, His god is the prince of the power of the air. Ye have perverted the words of the living God
@mwilson70201 If you listened to more of his teaching MWilson, you would see where he is coming from. It is obvious you closed yourself off from the beginning. He NEVER says you must not be born again.
@SwordandShield7 Satan has blinded this man.. you better believe it! His own preacher-daddy told him he'd read it and it was heresy. He disobeyed his dad and went his own way.. against God and Truth... for a deceptive lie of the devil.
The old guy is lost.. if he has stood his ground. Sadly.
Are you're listening to him and buying into it all and will perish if you don't repent.
@carolinagsings77 But, we must repent and believe it by faith in Christ in order to receive it. Christ dies for all.. and the Gift of Grace was/is offered to all. But, not all accept it.
I can offer you a gift...but, you have to accept the gift in order to actually 'have' it.
I believe in the Restoration of All Things. In the same breath, Preston has not dedicated his entire existence to enter the Holy of Holies, he writes about it, but has not fully dedicated himself to it.
II Peter 2:19 They shall promise them liberty, but shall be servants of corruption.
Your teachings were my "booklet" several years ago. Your experience is exactly what happened to me, & I am alone also. My family and friends are HELL bound to believe in a literal & eternal damnation & we are harshly judged for not 'going to church". There is no "church" to attend in our area (TN) & we are isolated & only have each other & of course The Holy Spirit to fellowship with. We can't stand to sit and listen to our Lord being maligned in such grievous ways.
Acts 3:21-23 "Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people."
@tentmaker777 Not ALL Jews are in Hell. Just those of whom reject Jesus Christ as the Messiah. There are indeed such people as "Messianic" Jews.. aka Christian Jews. Whom are with Jesus Christ today.
Jesus completed His work of Atonement for sin on the Cross.. then went to Hell, taking the keys of Hell and Death back from satan, stripping him of all authority. Took the lake of fire to the furthermost depths 'pit' of Hell.. and preached VICTORY to those held captive in Hell.
(cont) Then, delivered them (all but, the fallen angels, turned demons held in chains) over into Paradise aka Abraham's Boson.. then, upon His ascension into Heaven, led a train of those in Paradise.. up into Heaven.
Hence, the Gift of Grace... that must be accepted and received via repentance and belief through faith in Jesus Christ.
Many (most) reject this wonderful Gift of Grace.. therefore, inherit eternal damnation! God is Sovereign yet, gives us free-will to choose :-)
@DJM8002 if you look closer at the translation in Acts 3, the word used is not restitution but restoration.countless scriptures back this up,you are quick to quote Jesus, but what about in John12;32 if i be lifted up from the earth I WILL DRAW "ALL"MEN UNTO ME!..dont you know that EVERY knee will bow and every tounge confess that Jesus is LORD to the glory of the Father, no1 can confess Jesus as lord except by the Holy Spirit, confession is made unto salvation, He makes ALL things new..:¬)
@david1611kjv the "Every knee will bow and every tongue confess" thingy is that EVERY person will indeed do this... those of whom do it because they've known it and accepted it as truth long ago... and those of whom WILL HAVE TO BITE THE BULLET AND ADMIT IT IS SO.. AFTER HAVING SEEN IT FOR THEMSELVES... but, it will be too late for them. They had to see it to believe it.... whereas the rest believed it by faith.
@margovallen ok so let me get this straight...God created everything and everyone with all foreknowledge of things that will come to pass...yet He will torture most of His creation forever????...then why did He bother?...is God not love?......romans3;3(kjv)For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?....it is Gods will that all be saved.He will do all His pleasure.He will see the travail of His soul and be satisfied.:¬)
@david1611kjv Correct! He "bothered" because He was desiring for us to be obedient in our love for Him. Before the Great Flood, He became extremely disheartened the fact that His Creation of man had gravely disappointed Him. He destroyed it all and started from scratch w/Noah and his family. God, at that time already having a back-up plan, had better way for us to be able to not have to inherit eternal damnation but, life everlasting via Jesus Christ! UN-belief is damning, yes!
(cont) One thing that seems to be difficult for many to grasp : It's not about "the Faith of God" but, our own Faith that allows us to believe in order for God to save us. If God did it all from the womb to Heaven, we would not have to do anything. We would not have any say in any of it, as God's Creation (us) would be a bunch of mindless, soul-less drones. Are we mindless drones? If someone offers me a gift, I know I must reach and accept it. Then, the gift is mine! :-)
@david1611kjv Because you are so refusing to hear the truth you make replies AGAINST God Almighty. When you say "yet He will torture most of His creation forever?", you reply against God. God is not a man, that he should hear someone. God created all things for HIS pleasure. If you think that the wrath of God nullifies the truth that God is love, then you are after something other than God. God sets the standards my friend; not the feelings of men and their minds.
@DJM8002 so His pleasure is to torture people and your fine with that?????....do you think that God is this sick and petty?..and so incapable of restoring the creation that He is responsible for.....your god sucks dude!....if you truly love your fellow man as yourself then how could you ever be happy in eternity knowing that your God is torturing your fellow man with no hope of escape?..or will he give you some sort of spiritual labotomy so that you are ignorant and wont care?
And you refuse to agree with what the Lord Jesus Christ has declared is the truth. As for your question about "did I find the Lord or did he find me", it isn't matter of "finding" God. Its a matter of choosing to follow God. It is God who revealed himself to me, but ulitametely it was my CHOICE to ask him to be my Lord and Saviour, wash away my sins, and become the Lord of my life.
@DJM8002 Your vanity betrays you. Acts 3:21, Read "who chooses who" by Gary Amirault. Google it. Your choosing proves your vanity. All we like sheep have gone astray. There is NONE that seeks, including you.
@tentmaker777 "Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people."
@tentmaker777 Nobody needs to read ANY OTHER BOOKS OTHER THAN THE WORD OF GOD. Thats why you've missed it sir. You're trusting in the supplementary text of those of whom are lost hence, 'the blind leading the blind." Everything we need is in the Written Holy Word of God. Trust nothing else! Has nothing to do with "vanity".. as the God who created us gave us a brain and a Free-Will to choose.
(cont) Did you choose your own wife or was it an arranged marriage? Surely, you'd want your wife to love you for you.. and not because she is suppose to because it was arranged, yes?
Very same thing with God. He is surely Sovereign.. but, in that sovereignty He allows us to choose. The sign of true love.. and non-abuse of power. He doesn't want us to love Him because we are mindless drones and don't know any better or worse.
"Choose you this day whom you'll serve." - Joshua 24:15
@tentmaker777 The Bible tells us to "seek and you shall find." God created us, He knows exactly where we are at all times. He doesn't have to seek us, we are to seek Him. God created us, He offered His Plan, He holds the Trump-Card! We don't design our own way to Heaven. We get there by doing what He says in order to have Eternal Life. We are in no position to think we are superior in that genre. If we don't want Heaven thats a decision we ARE in position to make & how we make it.
Tentmaker777, you seem to be ignoring some very simple truths in the scriptures I have quoted you. I am not exactly sure what "fear" you are referring to when you say "fear has blinded me to the truth". You still haven't said anything to counter the scripture I quoted that says "for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it"
@DJM8002 The Gate is as narrow as one person, the person Jesus Christ. And few find Him, but HE FINDS EVERYONE because He came to seek and save them which are lost. Where you once lost, my friend? Did you find Jesus or did He find you? Be VERY careful how you answer that question, lest pride betray you.
@tentmaker777 You still haven't said anything that stands against the scripture I quoted. You simply cut-out part of the scripture and only responded to the party that your fallacious argument actually has any ability to respond to. I will re-post the part that you refuse to acknowledge: "for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:"
These are the words of Jesus. Jesus Christ is the King of kings and the Lord of lords.
DJM8002 6 minutes ago Jesus is the door for the salvation of the whole world. Rigtht now most of the world doesn't see that including YOU. So YOU are on the road that leads to destruction. YOU blaspheme God and doen't even blink an eye. How can you say you know Jesus when you say He fails for most of mankind? Visit the tentmaker ministries site. It has tons of material on the subject. This subject can't be debated in this platform, it's to leave a comment and then go on.
@tentmaker777 We are to be the ones of whom SEEK, in order to find. God knows exactly where each of us are. He's not the lost one and in need of salvation.... but, it is we whom are.
I pray that you toss your deal and get onto the narrow road.. via Christ. The one who puts us where we need to be :-)
Revelation 21:8 "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death"
The Word of God is very clear on this. Anyone who is saying that no one will go to hell is a LIAR. Eternal damnation in hell is what every single person is ALL READY condemned to; it is only by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour that you can be saved from this.
@DJM8002 "This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance and to this end we both labor and suffer reproach (from guys like DJM8002) because we trust in the living God who is the savior of ALL MEN, especially those that believe. These things command and teach." 1 Tim. 4:9-11 THAT is what Paul the apostle to the nations taught, that is what I teach, that is what the word of God teaches and anyone who teaches otherwise (Lke DJM8002) is deceived according to the Bible.
I am not trying to attack you; I am simply trying to expose you to the truth. I want you to know the truth. Jesus Christ is the saviour of all men in the sense that he died for all of the sins of the world. This means that no matter what kind of sinner you are, no matter what you have done, if you repent and ask the Lord Jesus Christ to forgive you and to become your Saviour, you will be saved. But you cannot be saved unless you BELIEVE.
@DJM8002 Everyone WILL believe in the "fullness of time." Jesus is the Savior of the world. THAT is what you should believe. But you don't. So you perpetrate on poor souls a God who is going to torture most of mankind because they didn't believe at the right time. Well, Jesus holds the keys to death and Hell and He knows what to do with those keys, set the prisoners free.
"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:9
John 3: 17-18 "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God"
@DJM8002 Yes, that is true. And this is also true that "every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord TO THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER." not to His shame. Everyone either on this side of the grave or the other side will meet the real Jesus, not the twisted false image the church has painted for 1600 years and they will ALLLL fall in love with Him. It's in the Bible, but fear has blinded you to the truth.
"For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed" Romans 10: 10-11
@mario10311 Who writes a book about something they don't know about? Those of whom are lost and un-knowing per the topic of the book. Never read material written by those of whom are lost. It can end in nothing good.
It wasnt long until I was admonished that I was wrong and reading heretical writing. Soon I was another one of the throngs of people going in and out of mainstream religious institutions, continually seeking, knocking and asking with no answers to satisfy me...And here it is 13 years later and Ive come full circle back to a doctrine that resonates with what I have found to be true. I have no use for the little itty bitty petty war god who rules by fear, he doesnt even exist except in mens minds!
I was 19 when I came upon this teaching, I remember being at work, we had computer access and there was a printer. It wasnt so much that we couldnt print whatever we wanted, it was that technically, I shouldnt be spending my time feverishly searching through messages of the gospel. Well, I felt it was too important and remember printing about a thousand pages of this stuff and within a few weeks "got converted". I too had my smuggling experience with this gospel as I had to smuggle the paper out
@N1k1mon My friend, if you think U have gotten converted via the message this guy has put before U, you are sadly mistaken! The message of the heretic is damning to the soul, should one take heed to it. Please, don't listen to these 'wolves' and get the message of the Gospel of Jesus Christ into your heart, soul and being via getting saved and listening to the Holy Spirit in your reading and studying the Word of God. Otherwise, you're just listening to the testimony of a lost soul.
When i see in scripture that God will work all things after the counsel of His own Will and read in scripture that he is of one mind (not double minded) as men and read it is his Will for the salvation of all men how dare we say God cannot get what he wants He is the Almighty not us to me it is being a enemy of the cross when we deny the salvation of all
The purpose of "Comments" is for a person to leave a comment positive or negative. This is NOT a discussion board. Anyone like dkarnish or peterpulpitpounder who hound this video leaving hundreds of posts is a SPAMMER and inconsiderate. These incessant posts will be removed not because the producer of the video is afraid of these spams but because these spammers are rude and inconsiderate.
dkarnish wrote: NO, thats not true, they are just about identical in thought and meaning, but not language
I just wanted you to put your foot in your mouth before I gave some examples and the space in is really not condusive to do this. I'm going to go and pray for you to get more honest. And tomorrow, when I find some time, I'll dig up some choice examples of how the Dead Sea scrolls differed from the Masoretic. In the meantime, I'm still waiting for YOUR translation. Convict her, Holy Spirit
Sweety, I can tell by what you wrote you haven't a clue. You're just mouthing some book or wikipedia article you read. I can show you verses in the Isaiah Scroll from Qumram that DIFFERS from the Masoretic Text used for our modern Bible translations. Girl, your faith is more what preachers taught you than your personal relationship with Jesus. You're parrot. And as far as study goes, you haven't scratched the surface, and your heart knows it. How many children do you have? Could you burn them?
Oh, really? 1 Cor. Ch. 3, Eph. 2:15; Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Do you stone your rebellious children? Do you tell Jews that should still do that?
@tentmaker777 I will tell you since you asked, even though you will just come back and tell me that they are all corrupted and have been changed, denying that God protects His very own word. Geneva, KJV, NLT, NASB, RSV, ESV, Living Bible, and countless others to numerous to list here. Now, if you would be so kind as to state exactly which versions you use primarily, the top 5 would be good starters.
I am going to ask you to go to God right now. I want to see if you are really being honest and sincere. You spoke specifically of YOUR translation in another post. Ask the Holy Spirit if you are being honest right now. I believe there is A translaion which you call YOUR Bible. You pray to God right now and see if He convicts you right now of not being honest with me. I'm going to pray to Him right now too. Which of these translations would your husband , if you have one, is your main translation
@tentmaker777 I already answered this for you I thought, did you misunderstand what I stated in a previous post? I have been honest with you from the very beginning. I have nothing to hide about which translations I have been reading.
I will pray that the Holy Spirit will convict you because I don't believe you. You specifically mentioned "YOUR translation." That's singular, not plural. Yes, you may have several, but if you need to look up a verse real quick, you will go to a particular translation, which is it? And why so evasive?
Well over 90 percent of the world, my friend never got a chance, never heard the gospel and your gospel can't give them a chance because after they die that is no hope for them. But I know a savior who holds the keys to death and hades and knows how to evangelize the dead. I know a Lord of the living AND THE DEAD. I hope one day you'll know such an awesome powerful Savior. He will perfect His love in you and drive all that demonic fear out of you.
@tentmaker777 NO you don't know scripture, Peter explains that Jesus preached the Gospel unto those that had died before the cross, and you make Jesus a liar when you say that because He said the Gospel would be preached unto the ends of the world. God wouldn't offer a plan of salvation if He wasn't going to make it available to all mankind, He would be creating people just for damnation and picking favorites to go heaven. Thats not Jesus. Its the command to us who believe to go out and teach it
I realize you have been brainwashed not to pay close attention to the scriptures, but pay attention this time. Look at the tense of the words: Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. Is "went" past tense? And how far is "ends of the world." And when was this done? Now I realize this messes with your head. But you see, it is the eschatology you've been taught that is messing this up for you.
What I teach requires the 'FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST," not YOUR faith in Jesus Christ. You can't even confess Jesus as Lord without the help of God. So why don't you see everyone else is in the same condition? It's all about God and nothing about you. There is NONE righteous, nay, not one. Adam condemned us all and Christ will save us all. To me, that's good news. And to millions of others who have had the tradtions of men removed from their eyes.
Jesus said the Holy Spirit(the Spirit of Truth) would lead his followers into all truth, Jesus IS the only Way the only Truth and the only Life. (John 14:6) Since the Holy Spirit leads people to Jesus, who is the truth, denying Who(Jesus) the Holy Spirit leads a person to is blasphemy, and UNFORGIVABLE, by the Lords very own words. So you deny the WORD, Jesus is THE WORD of GOD, so you are denying Jesus. This puts you in the realm of blasphemy and teaching that blasphemy to others.
That's false. He was speaking to the self-righteous Pharisees (who speak like you do) and told them they would not be forgiven in THIS AGE NOR IN THE AGE TO COME. The KJV mistranslated aion. There are ages, plural past and ages, plural in the future. Jesus did NOT say the pharisees could never be forgiven. Don't you remember all Jesus said about the importance to forgive? Is Jesus a hypocrite? All mankind will be forgiven.
@tentmaker777 don't quote the KJV on your web page repeatedly and then tell me it got it mistranslated something, that ridiculous. Quote a source and then claim the source is corrupted, are you that confused? And yes Jesus did state exclusively to those who claimed he was casting out devils by the power of Satan that they had just blasphemed the HOLY SPIRIT and would NEVER be forgiven, are you going to make Jesus out to be a liar now and claim He didn't say this? You are a very confused man.
I told you why I usually quote translations people are familiar with. I told you Universal Salvation can be proven in ANY translation, in some it's more difficult like the KJV because it is so hellish and archaic. And I told you the Pharisees will be forgiven in an age in the future, not the age Jesus was in, not the next age, the one we are in, but in the next age, when you grow up and learn righteous judgment. Who knows, maybe Jesus will let YOU teach the Pharisees the truth. But first get it.
@tentmaker777 then you are misleading people, that is like me saying I use the book of mormon to get through to mormons because they are familiar with it. Thats absurd, either you believe 2 Timothy 3:16, that all scripture is breathed out by God and is good for training, correction, reproof etc, or you don't believe that, thats up to you, but if you don't believe that, then you deny the very WORD Himself, who penned those very words through the Holy Spirit and faithful men. Which do you believe?
Now YOU are being absurd. Ok, let's try something else. What translation do you use? And do you believe YOUR translation in inerrant? And don't tell me you believe the scriptures are inerrant in their originals. YOU DON"T HAVE THE ORIGINALS. You have YOUR translation. Is it inerrant?
@tentmaker777 I read every translation I can get my hand on, I know God would not give me a broken record of Himself and then leave me to try to figure it all out. He protects HIS HOLY WORD, no I don't have the originals, neither does anyone else but Greek is still Greek, and Hebrew is still Hebrew, and we have 25,000 copies of the original copies that have been scrutinized over for almost two millennia, by some men who's sole object was to glorify the name of Jesus by getting it right.
YOu are not being truthful. You mentioned specifically YOUR translation. How cough up the name. Don't play footsieys with me. When someone asked you to look up a verse, what translation do you go to?
You turn the most beautiful expression of God's Love to man, sacrificing His only SON to take our place, our deserved wrath, our deserved separation from Him, our completely deserverd judgment onto Himself to reconcile fallen man (God's enemies) back to a loving relationship with the Father into a cheap bandaid for even those who CHOOSE to reject this free gift, who choose to reject Jesus and what he did on the cross by choosing to not believe in HIM. A cheap get out of hell free for disbelief.
Lies again. You turn the cross into mockery. Jesus came to save the world and you say He can't. That is unbelief. Did Paul "chose" Jesus? Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. Joh 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last d
By your own words you make Jesus, the LORD, and creator of this world, every thing and every one in it out to be a liar. 2 Thessalonians 1:7b when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with EVERLASTING* destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory or His power. *Greek AIDIOS permanence and UNchangeableness!
On Tentmaker Ministries web site is "Scholars Corner." and a book "Bible Threatenings Explained." Under "everlasting destruction" is the answer to your question. No, I don't make God a liar, you do. Jesus said He came to save the world. You don't believe He can. We'll find out who is the liar, you or Jesus. Rom 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written,
@tentmaker777 There you go again, picking and choosin from an unreliable source. Please refrain from telling me what I believe, you tell me that all English versions of the Bible are corrupt, and then you quote from them. So if you believe they are corrupt, then why do you use a corrupt source, your making a fool of yourself. Either its completed reliable and infallible or its not, if its not a firm foundation then you really shouldn't stand on it, especially if you constantly misquote it.
If I quoted from the Young's literal, Rotherham's Emphasized, Concordant literal, Twentieth Century N.T., Weymouths, etc, etc. you'd condemn me for using nonsense translations. If I use your own line of translations to prove universal salvation, you still condemn me. See, friend, it doesn't matter what translation I use, you love your hell, you want some folks it in and you'll find a way of putting some folks in regardless of the translation. Hell is in your heart and until it's removed from the
@tentmaker777 NO, I don't condemn you, you did that yourself when you used a translation after telling me it was corrupted and unreliable. NO, I don't love hell, I love Jesus and I believe what HE SAID. I'm don't need to find a way for any of what you said, Its clearly defined in scripture. I pray that you come to the full knowledge of the truth and stop cheapening the sacrifice Jesus made on the Cross for all of humanity, but people can accept or reject this, just as the Bible says they will.
No one from Adam all the way up to now be thrown away.
jamesstenbeck1977 1 month ago
The second death is the burial of the flesh and a new creation in Christ. If death and hell is all cast away permanently ,all the wickedness and unbelievers will be made righteousness.
jamesstenbeck1977 1 month ago
Sad enough to know loved ones passed then having to worry if they are going to heaven or burn in fire.
jamesstenbeck1977 1 month ago
Simply wonderful! All Praise Honour and Glory to our Beloved King of all kings.AMEN
jvsm1971 2 months ago
Touching story.. and I'm sure many would love it if it were really true. But, the TRUTH of the matter is.. that "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son.. AND WHOSOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM shall not perish but, have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him MIGHT be saved.
margovallen 2 months ago
Comment removed
margovallen 2 months ago
@margovallen salvation, grace and faith are all the gifts of God and none "choose Christ" until he first gives that faith. (eph 2:8-9) no amount of preaching the word (sowing the seed) will profit anyone until God causes the word to grow (the parable in Mt 13) and it is God who causes the seed/word of the Gospel to grow (1 Cor 3:6) Salvation is wholly by grace and of God if anyone rejects Christ now it is because he has not YET given them faith.
harasopia 2 months ago
@harasopia We hear the Gospel, the Holy Spirit speaks to us. We either yield to the Holy Spirit, repent and believe by Faith or we do not yield to the Holy Spirit, repent and believe by faith.. at that time. In various situations we may find ourselves in.. the Holy Spirit will speak to our hearts.. and will continue to speak to us until we either yield to the Spirit and follow through.. or we will not. There will come a time that the Holy Spirit will decide a person will not yield.
margovallen 2 months ago
(cont) And the Holy Spirit will pull back and allow a "stiff-necked" individual to go on their own. We furnish our own Faith to believe. We have God-given Free-Will to accept or reject.
It's obvious that you are a follower of John Calvin... a simple man.. and heretic.
margovallen 2 months ago
@margovallen I believe the scripture that tells us that faith is the gift of God and that it is God who causes the word to grow. i follow scripture not john calvin. john believes God will torment people in literal flames for eternity. I believe that Christ IS the savior of the world and not just the "attempted savior". Free will is not taught in scripture. Paul's will was not "free" in Romans 7. The believers will is not "free" in Phil 2:13. To be free is to be outside all influence and none are
harasopia 2 months ago
@harasopia We "choose" to believe. Everybody has faith.. its already in us. We may pray to God and ask for Him to grow our faith.. but, "Belief" and "Faith" are synonymous.. as if we 'believe' something to be true, we are going on strong surmise without having seen it. It doesn't take 'belief' to know you have hands. You see them everyday.. you know you have them. It doesn't take 'Faith" to know you are breathing. But, it takes belief by faith to know you'll be breathing tomorrow.
margovallen 2 months ago
(cont) God has given each and every human being Free-Will to choose. Philippians 2:13 is not even speaking of Salvation. Total depravity doesn't mean that we are all a bunch of reprobates. It means that we are all born with the stain of original sin and need persuasion via the Holy Spirit in which, can be heeded or ignored. Pauls will was not free in Romans 7? That is not speaking of Salvation. But, Pauls heart was right but, his flesh was week. He chose to sin.
margovallen 2 months ago
@margovallen to be "free" is to be outside of all influence. Pauls will was influences by the sin dwelling in him and so his will was not "free". It is GOD working in us both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Again our will is not "free" here either. My point was that our wills are not "free" (outside ALL influence) and those scriptures show us that. Free will is not taught in Scripture. "as many as were ORDAINED to "eternal" (aionion) life believed" (Acts 13:48) Again GOD CAUSES...
harasopia 2 months ago
@harasopia . Paul was indeed saved, yes? His whole point in Romans 7 has nothing to do with Buddhist philosophies.. or "being free from all outside influence".. Cosmic indeed.. lol! Nobody is like you suggest, dear.There is none who is without sin. Paul was human.. and showing his human weakness.
There are scriptures supporting Free-Will and "choosing." Do I need more than one?
How about John 3:15-18? ie. "Whosoever will".. suggesting choice. The Gospel message in a nut-shell :-)
margovallen 2 months ago
(cont) Also.. Mark 16:16, John 20:31, Acts 16:31, Romans 10:9, 1 John 3:23 and 1 John 5:13 have no meaning without the free will of mankind. God calls upon mankind to believe in Christ because mankind has the free will to believe or reject Christ. God would have no reason to call upon mankind to believe if mankind were in a state of Total Depravity or Total Inability to respond.
margovallen 2 months ago
(cont) Heres yet, another passage that supports free-will and choosing : REVELATION 3
20 Behold, I STAND AT THE DOOR, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Not just 'hear His voice.. but, (makes the choice to) open the door'.. :-)
margovallen 2 months ago
@margovallen Again there is no doubt scripture tells us to believe but where does the faith come from? Not out of our own ability. Christ is the "AUTHOR AND FINISHER" of our faith.(Heb 12:2) God has the power to influence a will to go one way or another. We see it in the story of pharoh, joseph's brothers and the king of asyria. If he can influence them he can influence all to "see the light" whenever he so chooses. There is no "free" will that can thwart him and he wills that ALL be saved.
harasopia 2 months ago
@harasopia Jesus is the author & finisher of Faith, indeed! Meaning that Jesus Christ is the first and the last, as an example of faith or of confidence in God. He has set the example and we take our own faith (which we provide) and direct it in the same manner as He did. His example is the pre-eminence.. and is the most complete model that can be placed before us. If God "wills" that all be saved then, why are their people in Hell? It's because WE must have that same WILL as God has.
margovallen 2 months ago
(cont) And per the "every knee shall bow / every tongue confess" thingy is ALL will acklowedge that Jesus is Lord, not in a saving faith sense, but by a 'mental assent' to this truth... as even satan and his demons are fully aware of the fact that Jesus IS Lord.. and they will be part of "EVERY."
The scripture is not saying that everyone will be saved.
margovallen 2 months ago
@margovallen there is no doubt that we are told to believe in Scripture AND EVERY tongue will confess Jesus is Lord and believe that he is risen frome the dead. BUT where does the faith come frome? It comes from God. God also gave the Jews the law of Moses and told them to obey it and yet we know from Scripture that "the Law is the power of sin" and that man is not even capable of subjecting to the law (Rom 8:7) Here also God tells us to do something we can't WITHOUT him.
harasopia 2 months ago
@harasopia You are totally preaching to the choir with what you're saying here, hon... other than where we get our faith. We must supply our own Faith. Granted, we may pray and ask God to "strengthen" the faith that we already have (if we have it).. but, 'faith' is what we bring to the table. Think about this : Per say, John 3:16-18.. "whosoever believes".. those of whom 'believe' because they 'want' to believe.. and they therefore, 'choose' to believe.. and its through THEIR faith.
margovallen 2 months ago
(cont) Do you think we have the very same 'faith' as Jesus Christ had/has? He tells us in MATTHEW 17:20 "Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of MUSTARD SEED ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you." He is speaking to His Disciples. Men of faith, not unbelievers. If they'd gotten their faith from Him, theres no need for the conversation in the first place.
margovallen 2 months ago
@margovallen In Romans 7 Paul was speaking of himself before CHRIST converted him. Again my point is our will is not "free" as you say but influenced by outside forces. In the case of Romans it was the sin dwelling in Paul. If Pauls will was "free" he could have choosed to do the good he "willed" and not the evil that he did not "will". After coming to Christ (through the GIFT of faith) our will is influenced by God "it is GOD working in us to WILL AND DO according to his pleasure.
harasopia 2 months ago
@harasopia Think so? Remember, there is no change in ones 'nature' after we experience the New Birth. Theres change in our minds and attitudes.. but, we are still human.. and what is the human nature? Sinful. The natures of the believer and the unbeliever are identical. Paul states in Romans 7:6, (speaking in the present-tense) "But NOW we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter."
margovallen 2 months ago
(cont) In Romans 7:1-5.. Paul is referring back, before his and his congregations conversions (he's addressing believers) to how things WERE... and verses 6-25 is present-tense.. AFTER conversion :-)
Honey, I cannot stress enough.. God has given His Creation free-will to choose. I sincerely hope you understand that God can only work with 'willing hearts'.. no one is going to be saved whom does not desire to be saved.
margovallen 2 months ago
(cont) Something else of importance : Paul wrote about his experiences in Romans 7 17 years after his experiences occurred. He had not quite gotten out of the 'Pharisee' mind-set / 'habit' of striving to not sin. He was saved but, had not fully realized the fact that, he was indeed truly dead to the law and sin. Hence, his conflict and struggles. But, in Romans 8.. all that had changed as he then had learned to "let go and let God"..getting his eyes off of 'self' and onto Christ.
margovallen 2 months ago
I MUST CLARIFY SOMETHING HERE (SURPRISED YOU HAVEN'T JUMPED ON IT LIKE WHITE ON RICE, ALREADY.. LOL!)
BUT, THERE IS NO 'IMMEDIATE'.. OR INSTANTANEOUS CHANGE IN OUR NATURE AFTER OUR EXPERIENCING A NEW-BIRTH. ITS A PROCESS THAT USUALLY ACQUIRES OVER TIME.
AS WITH PAUL IN ROMANS 8 :-)
margovallen 2 months ago
@margovallen (cont) the word preached to grow.we who believe Scripture are begotton not of the will of man but OF GOD. (John 1:13) "Not you choose me (Jesus) but I choose you" (john 15:16)
harasopia 2 months ago
@harasopia The scripture is clear on Hell, OK? Did it ever occur to you that "denial" is not just a river in Egypt?
If you don't believe in Hell as the Bible explains it, that makes you an UN-believer. An accurate understanding of scripture and doctrine is paramount to Salvation. Are we clear?
Thanks.
margovallen 2 months ago
@margovallen our translations certainly make hell appear to be a place of conscious torment for "eternity". BUT when you study the original Greek and Hebrew text (as I hope God puts it in your heart to) it is nothing like what we have been taught in our most TRANSLATIONS. I believe the Scriptural "hell". I agree that once you see the truth in Scriptre and yet cont. disbelieving that would make you an unbeliever.
harasopia 2 months ago
@harasopia Haha! Nice try, sweetie-pie! Utilizing my own methods of reasoning on myself... LOL! I am starting to find you incredibly adorable! But, alas.. lots of incredibly adorable people whom are incredibly lost. Unless you are able to fluently speak, read and write in Aramaic, Greek and/or Hebrew, you are really in no position to accurately study the scriptures written in those languages. If they've been "modernly" translated, you are just plainly reading just another translation.
margovallen 2 months ago
(cont) In fact, you'd fare way, way much better to stick with the King James Version. Frankly, I don't trust 'modern translations' of Gods Word. Many of them are from the pit of Hell in their corruption. And I am able to see that you are on a path of dire-woe destruction.. and sadly, for whatever reason(s).. you refuse to listen (read, comprehend and accept) Biblical TRUTHS I'm sharing with you, despite my providing ample scripture.
Is Christ a liar? Read how He describes HELL.
margovallen 2 months ago
@margovallen what you share is what you've learned from your translation (kjv?) this translation has gone thru many corrections and is not perfect. You don't have to be know the entire Greek/Hebrew languages to look up the original words and trace their usage in scripture to get a good understanding of them. Many who are adept in both will tell you what I am about the mistranslating of "hell" and the words translated "eternal" forever, etc. You should really do some research on these words...
harasopia 2 months ago
@harasopia I have looked up many different terms in the Greek and Hebrew, dear. I know how to study.I don't mind taking instruction, constructive criticism.. or even, correction. But, please don't think you're dealing with a novice. Practically all I do most days of the week are read/study Gods Word and practice guitar. Sometimes, I read other things of interest on the Internet. I am no longer considered young.. but, middle-aged.
margovallen 2 months ago
(cont) Sometimes, I read other things of interest on the Internet in order to learn about them. I am no longer considered young but, middle-aged. I have had many discussions and debates with many different types from atheists, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Seventh-Day Adventists, satanists and a garden-variety of "Christians" whom chop up the Word of God into little pieces with their so-called "Interpretations" straight from the pit.
margovallen 2 months ago
@margovallen at least we are the same in our study habits. :) except I actually studied "hell" and the words translated eternal, forever, etc :P (a little joke) i can see you are no "baby Christian".
harasopia 2 months ago
@harasopia Respectively, doll.. you're going to study Hell up close and personal.. aka a one-way educational "field-trip" if you don't allow the Holy Spirit to lead and guide you into what God intends for you. I think (know) that I am correct on all issues we've covered. While spotting several of your discrepancies that will cause you to perish. One of us is right.. not both. Theres only one way that is acceptable to God in our interpretations of the scriptures. W/o the HS we miss it.
margovallen 2 months ago
@margovallen (cont.) Based on the scriptures I gave you and many others I am convince that God alone is the Savior, there is no "free will". I don't think we will agree on this apparently. :) Isaiah 46:10, 14:24 tells us that God has said FROM THE BEGINNING that he does ALL his pleasure and ALL that he purposes he does. Why did Christ come? What was his purpose? 1Jn 4:14, 1 Tim 1:15, Lk 19:10. Saving the world was his pupose and his pleasure...
harasopia 2 months ago
@harasopia Grace is by Faith and that it is a Gift of God.. not of our own doing. We have the free-will to accept or reject it. Those are our choices in which God has allotted us. Christ dies for all. Offered the Gift of Grace to all. Not all accept it. Not everybody gets saved. If Gods will and the will of man don't match up, man loses in that respect. Christs death on the Cross made it possible for all to be saved. But, it didn't save everyone because NOT EVERYONE WILL RECEIVE IT.
margovallen 2 months ago
@margovallen because you believe in "free will" (which is not supported in scripture) you cannot believe Is 46:10, 14:24. There is no point in trying to convince you about what "hell" is or isn't until you study it for youself (go to the orginal Hebrew / Greek words). Until then I think we will just have to agree to disagree. :) If you would like to keep talking please message me, lest me "spam" up this page anymore! Thanks for your kindness.
harasopia 2 months ago
@harasopia It IS supported in scripture and I've provided them. You are having trouble enough interpreting scriptures that U know are in the Bible. So, I could provide U scriptures on any topic and so, what good will it do? You have your mind made up via your corrupt understanding of the Word of God. I'm not trying to me mean but, U cannot be reasoned with nor stand truthful Biblical correction. Theres nothing more I can say or do. But, pray u'll find out the truth someday. Blessings!
margovallen 2 months ago
@margovallen you didn't actually prove free will by your scriptures. God gave a law that we cannot keep apart from his enabling by grace. in the same way scripture also tells us to believe and also tells us where that faith comes from. our wills are influenced by sin, by God and many other things and so not "free". i see you do some study but I also see you have not done an in depth study on "hell" or the words translated forever etc. i wish many christians would b4 accusing those who have...
harasopia 2 months ago
@margovallen (cont) of being "blind", "heretics" or "twisters of Scripture". It seems you do not believe Is 46:10 and 14:24 because it doesn't fit with your free will or your eternal hell and punishment doctrine. I believe these scriptures and I believe the original Hebrew/Greek text is "God breathed" and "trust worthy". I do not believe this is the case withh many of our translations including the KJV. All ne 1 needs 2 do is honestly study out these claims in Scripture...as many as he chooses:)
harasopia 2 months ago
@harasopia In order for us to understand the passages in Isaiah that you've provided, contextual reading and studying are paramount! With that stated, God is speaking 'specifically' to Israel! And if we understand that, we will also understand the fact that, the reason(s) Israel has had so many 'trials and tribulations' is because of their 'DIS-obedience.' But, since they're "Gods Chosen People" God sees them to prevalence but, not without vast struggle via the 'CHOICES' they've made.
margovallen 2 months ago
(cont) Through His allotment of free-will He has given not only to Israel.. but, every human-being.
Per your 'Hell' argument : What does it really matter if people are going to eternal damnation in Hell.. specifically, the Lake of Fire.. or not? If God tells us that we will either be with Him in Eternity... or just simply all alone, which would an individual want to do? You seem to toss around the 'KJV has been revised a lot' thingy.. so perhaps, you will be more specific? :-)
margovallen 2 months ago
@margovallen nice try:) if you pay attent. to the words in Is 46:10 he says "saying" (when?) "from the beginning" (not just now in the context) "from the beginning" ALL his counsel (purpose, plans) STANDS (will be done) and ALL his delight he does. Is 14:24 Is the same. God has SWORN that whatever he plans and purposes STANDS and WILL BE DONE..
harasopia 2 months ago
@harasopia Nice try? So, you're telling me that I am able to lead a horse to water but, cannot make her drink? ..lol!
God is Speaking to Israel in Isaiah! Which syllable are you not understanding, sweet-cakes? You're tinkling against the wind here, honey. If you think I'm mistaken, check it out via born-again Christians. Stay away from Universalism.
Just because we may "wish" something to be true.. because we are afraid what indeed IS TRUE.. is not going to make our wish come true.
margovallen 2 months ago
@harasopia Why don't you answer my question, in lieu of doing a Watusi around it all? I know you hope like heck there is no Lake of Fire. Do you just plainly wanna skate through life, doing whatever suits your fancy and inherit the Kingdom of God? You love the idea that there is no eternal punishment for those of whom reject Christ? If you will believe the Word of God as its intended and stop fighting a lost cause and receive Christ, you have no worries. Otherwise, its 'WOE".. PERIOD!
margovallen 2 months ago
(cont) Fact is, the words "Trinity" and "Rapture" aren't in the Bible either. But, being that we must utilize our 'working the equation of words' skills, ie. cross-referencing Scripture with Scripture, we see that the existence of both are factual. Surely, the terms are man-made.. but, the facts are still the same. The Bible uses the term "Godhead" for Trinity.. and the phrase "Christ shall return for His Bride" is the meaning of Rapture.. based on 1 THESSALONIANS 4.
margovallen 2 months ago
(cont) Also, 1 Thessalonians 4 reveals that 'not everybody will be saved.' If you are looking for those "exact words".. as it seems you like o shoot for... you'll be gravely disappointed. If you take into consideration what I've said all along, it should not come as a surprise :-)
margovallen 2 months ago
@margovallen "saying" (when?) from the beginning...Was Israel even a nation back then? It is from the beg. that he says HIS cousel stands and he does his delight/pleasure. Unless God has given you eyes to see and ears to hear u will cont. despising that vs. as well as "according to the purpose of Him who works ALL things according to the counsel of His OWN WILL." ePH 1:11 There is no "eternal" ne thing in the original text to prevent that. That isn't assumption but fact. Look it up sister.
harasopia 2 months ago
@margovallen You can easily find the corrections made to the KJV. The removing of entire books is just one of many. Also the KJV was not taken entirely from "the original Greek/Hebrew but portions of came from the Latin Translation. I will give you a few errors that STILL remain. Even when "aion" appears in the the Greek in its plural form the KJV translates is "ever". If they didn't it would have to read "evers and (Grk is OF not and) evers. There is no such thing as "evers" or "eternals!
harasopia 2 months ago
@harasopia I believe the whole Bible, including Isaiah. But, fact of the matter is, thats not what Isaiah is saying. So, my deal is not anything to do with disbelief but, "rightly dividing the Word of God" in which, I am able to do only through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. It does no one a bit of good if they' don't know what they're reading. Does that make sense? I'm sharing with you TRUTHS and you're seemingly more concerned about 'being right' even at the cost of your own soul.
margovallen 2 months ago
@margovallen you are sharing with me your doctrine based on on an imperfect KJV. Confess with ur mouth Jesus believe in ur heart God raised him from the dead. Is this what it takes to b saved? Geuss what, I did this b4 I even studied the scriptural "hell" n "eternal" punishment! I believe what I do b cuz study not fear of "hell" 4 me or ne 1 else. Despite script. on how we come 2 b saved r u saying until I believe in ur fabled KJV eternal hell I m not saved? Balogna!
harasopia 2 months ago
@harasopia "Attempted" Savior is a little out there. Christs death on the Cross caused "Universal Reconciliation" not 'Universal Salvation.' His death made it possible.. put us into the position where we are all able to be saved. We must have a WILL and CHOOSE to ACCEPT/RECEIVE it in order to have it.
Hello? "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him *MIGHT* be saved."
"Hmmmm .. wonder what could be hindering it? Let me seeeeee."
margovallen 2 months ago
@margovallen I should tell you that the word "might" is not in the original Greek text. I might have been a l ittle shaken by your warning of my fiery doom if I still believed the KJV was an accurate translation. God is not hindered by our fabled puny "free will". I'm going to continue beliving those vs. I gave u in Isaiah. i think it is time for us to "let go and let God" now. ;)
harasopia 2 months ago
@harasopia You know what? Why don't you take the Word of God by Faith and choose to believe what is written? The KJV is the most accurate translation by far of all the others.. taken straight from the Greek and Hebrew texts. When you listen to those of whom say things such as, "Umm the KJV has been mistranslated blah blah blah." Its the same old tools of satan trying any desperate way he can to deceive us.
God is Sovereign. But, even so.. He still doesn't "force" His Will.
margovallen 2 months ago
(cont) Love does not force.. love does not insist on its own way. God loves us.. and God IS LOVE! He wants us to come to love Him for 'Him' not because He forces us.
Why don't you type in certain appropriate 'key' words and do an Internet search regarding this issue. Look at several different sites and make sure you look up the people whom are teaching on the sites, in so to not land (another) heretic. Thats a major part of my study regimen. A wonderful way of cross-referencing :-)
margovallen 2 months ago
@margovallen WILL and LOVE are they the same? Because Jesus Christ revealed His LOVE for me, I couldn't help but love Him back, then His WILL is made perfect in Me right? Jesus Christ doesn't use His WILL to force people to serve Him, but His LOVE never fails 1 Cor 13:18 Gods love NEVER fails. God bless you friend. Jessica.
jvsm1971 2 months ago
@jvsm1971 Will and Love are not the same. Gods Will for us is based on love, just as any parents will is based on their love for their children. Like our own parents can lead, guide and direct us with all the best intentions but, we have choices to either obey or not, usually with tough consequences. God loves us all the unsaved as well as the saved. Even though, the saved aren't His children. It's AGAPE love. The love I have for you and all mankind. There is no 1 Cor 13:18. Blessings!
margovallen 2 months ago
@ma God will punish and judge all of us. We as believers bare the consequences to our own sin and rebellion and so too does the world and His death was for our sins, so God IS Just and Holy BUT unable to redeem almost all creation? I disagree. I believe He is ALL powerful ALL loving ALL forgiving to do it, to save every single one who is LOST.If just one is thrown into hell for ever and ever(I dont believe this is the truth) then Jesus Christ is NOT Saviour of the World but Saviour of a few.
jvsm1971 2 months ago
@jvsm1971 Excuse me? Honey, not the God of the Bible! Jesus Christ took all of that upon Himself and bore our punishment for us.. for those of whom have made their profession of faith in Him. He's made that available to ALL.. through what He did on the Cross aka Universal Reconciliation.. but, we must repent and believe in Him as our own personal Savior, in order to have Eternal Salvation.
When the Rapture occurs, believers will be judged @ the Judgment Seat of Christ, on our deeds.
margovallen 2 months ago
(cont) Whether good and bad in thought and actions. It will be a 'trial by fire'.. in which, those deeds that were not in Christ, will burn up and become ashes.. while those that withstand, will determine ones 'reward.' Heaven is NOT our reward.. as its a promise to those of whom believe in, trusting in Jesus Christ. Rewards are earned by our works, AFTER becoming a born-again believer.The Great White Throne of Judgment is for UN-believers in which, will go to the Lake of Fire.
margovallen 2 months ago
One more thing : God works with willing hearts. Time and time again, in the Old Testament.. He is trying to get Israel to get with the program in so He can bless them as He had promised. "If you do this and this and this, I will do this and that" (paraphrasing, obviously). He's not a liar and has basically "painted himself into a corner" so to speak.. by sticking to His Word. The results of what we get from God, is based on our own decisions.. based on His promises.
margovallen 2 months ago
(cont) "All loving" as God is.. and while He loves the UN-believer as well as, the believer. But, He has laid out a plan for us all.. and has made a way for us to not perish, IF we do what He has commanded in the 'believing in His Son, Jesus Christ'.. and if we do something other than that, the 'dividends' of our beliefs, won't yield what He has promised. Like baking a cake from a box... should we not read and follow the instructions, we will not get what is meant for us to get :-)
margovallen 2 months ago
@margovallen You are right, He bore all the sins of mankind upon Him and made a way for us BUT dont you still struggle with sin? I do. Dont you still reap what you sow? I know I do. So does the Holy Spirit convict us daily of our sins and teaches us right from wrong? Yes the Spirit of God does this with us all, and though I am saved by what Jesus did, our Father must help us, teach us, show us how to DIE to the flesh which is done DAILY..
jvsm1971 2 months ago
@margovallen It isn't the Word of God that I doubt, only the translations of it. The KJV has gone thru MANY revisions. If it was a perfect transl. that would have not been needed. ENTIRE books have been taken out of it. Do you believe Is 46:10, 14:24? If you do than how can you doubt that He will save the world, the lost, sinners? It says he does all he purposes n plans n delights.Christ came for the purpose of saving the world.
harasopia 2 months ago
@harasopia No! Actually, the KJV is THE most accurate of any translations of the Holy Bible. So what, if it has gone through revisions? Do you thing those revisions are less accurate that the modern-day revisions/versions of the Bible? Please believe me when I tell you that in this day in time, the agenda is not to save souls but, to misdirect in order to deceive and cause people to perish. The books taken out would make up the Gnostic Gospels. Are you sure you really wanna go there?
margovallen 2 months ago
@margovallen My point is you cannot rely on the KJV to be 100 percent accurate. If it were a perfect translation then they would never have had to make corrections or remove entire books from it. We can't base our doctirnes on any imperfect translation even if it were "the most accurate". Just because the KJV says so doesn't make it true. Sometimes we need to go to the original Greek/Hebrew text and study the usage of words. Usage is the best way of determining a words meaning.
harasopia 2 months ago
@margovallen Also Scripture does not speak of "eternal", "everlasting" or "forever" punishment. The Greek is aionios and this word is used when speaking of the duration of things that have had both a beginning and an end (not eternal, forever, everlasting). It is also the adject. of aion which is an age (a period of time). No adjective has a greater force than the noun it is derived from. Trace these words in Script. and study their usage n you will see it.
harasopia 2 months ago
@harasopia We can search for a translation of God's Word that suits our fancy. That doesn't mean that particular translation is accurate and/or of God. Whats your main beef? Where are you trying to go with all of this you're presenting as Biblical Truth? You must have some agenda. The Bible is what it is and says what it says irregardless of what it reads. Are you afraid that Hell is real and literal? Thats the point! You should be!
margovallen 2 months ago
@margovallen I will leave you w/ this. Is there a sheol/hades "hell" where the dead are until the ressurection? Yes. R they consciously tormented there by ne thing? No. Is this hell eternal? No. Is there coming a judgment where men will be judged according to their works? Yes. Is this eternal? No.Ne one can confirm this by study. Or they can buy into ur doctrine based on faulty transl. and unwillingness (?) to look these things up. Those chosen to rule n reign w/ Christ will.
harasopia 2 months ago
Isaiah 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid and fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? Isa. 66:22,23 in the new heavens and new earth then vs 24 And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. Ye must be born again or wind up here
mwilson70201 4 months ago
@mwilson70201 note the word "carcases". also the words "the fire not quenched" is used in other places of scripture where the fire actually burned out...but not until it had accomplished its purpose. also look up the hebrew for "worm" and you find it is speaking of maggots. maggots and carcases go together like peas and carrots. Also this is refering to Gehenna/Vally of Hinnom, a place outside Jerusalem where city trash was burned and not hell where all the dead r till the ressurection. (ecl 9)
harasopia 2 months ago
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@harasopia *also the words "the fire not quenched" is used in other places of scripture where the fire actually burned out...but not until it had accomplished its purpose*
BULL-HOCKY!
margovallen 2 months ago
@harasopia The dead unbelievers are indeed in Hell waiting in their judgment in which, they will be cast into the LAKE OF FIRE! Don't try to game it dear. It is what it is and it is not pretty for those of whom reject Christ or believe heresies! Thats the absolute Biblical TRUTH! The lost cannot plead ignorance. Gods not going to listen to those of whom cry out "Lord I thought U meant blah blah blah!" He won't be interested! God puts people in our lives for a reason, dear! Coffees on!
margovallen 2 months ago
@margovallen O Margo…Let’s say that despite the fact the Rev. is a book of symbols that the LAKE of fire is literal…How long r those not given faith there 4? The Greek says the aionS of aionS. An aion is an age (u can confirm this) and its in the plural! If the KJV didn’t ignore that it would say for everS of everS! They r not there forever. Stop basing ur “biblical truth” on the KJV.
harasopia 2 months ago
@m some food for thought. I die 1st physically&as a believer I die to the flesh daily 2nd. The unbelievers resurrected on judgment day have already died -hence resurrection.They will be raised into immortal bodies &will SEE&BELIEVE Jesus Christ - no need for FAITH.They are cast into the Lake of Fire where they die to the old man Adam that they still have.This is the 2nd death.1Cor3:15 If ANY man's work shall be BURNED, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be SAVED; yet so as by FIRE.
jvsm1971 2 months ago
Have you ever tried to burn a book? They all only singe around the edges if they are closed. He said a mouthful when he said he got a new god. I noticed he never mentions the new birth who needs it if we're all going to them same place.If he Though we or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel than that which we have preached let him be accursed. He has a new god & new gospel by his own admission, His god is the prince of the power of the air. Ye have perverted the words of the living God
mwilson70201 4 months ago
@mwilson70201 If you listened to more of his teaching MWilson, you would see where he is coming from. It is obvious you closed yourself off from the beginning. He NEVER says you must not be born again.
dridinger1953 3 months ago
What a gifted man, God has blessed him with understanding
Thanks for posting this
SwordandShield7 4 months ago
@SwordandShield7 Satan has blinded this man.. you better believe it! His own preacher-daddy told him he'd read it and it was heresy. He disobeyed his dad and went his own way.. against God and Truth... for a deceptive lie of the devil.
The old guy is lost.. if he has stood his ground. Sadly.
Are you're listening to him and buying into it all and will perish if you don't repent.
margovallen 2 months ago
Praise God, Jesus Christ is truth and it truly is, finished.
carolinagsings77 5 months ago
@carolinagsings77 But, we must repent and believe it by faith in Christ in order to receive it. Christ dies for all.. and the Gift of Grace was/is offered to all. But, not all accept it.
I can offer you a gift...but, you have to accept the gift in order to actually 'have' it.
margovallen 2 months ago
I believe in the Restoration of All Things. In the same breath, Preston has not dedicated his entire existence to enter the Holy of Holies, he writes about it, but has not fully dedicated himself to it.
II Peter 2:19 They shall promise them liberty, but shall be servants of corruption.
MichaelBoryAlis 7 months ago
Your teachings were my "booklet" several years ago. Your experience is exactly what happened to me, & I am alone also. My family and friends are HELL bound to believe in a literal & eternal damnation & we are harshly judged for not 'going to church". There is no "church" to attend in our area (TN) & we are isolated & only have each other & of course The Holy Spirit to fellowship with. We can't stand to sit and listen to our Lord being maligned in such grievous ways.
nootsz 7 months ago
Acts 3:21-23 "Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people."
DJM8002 8 months ago
@DJM8002 So according to you, all Jews are in hell. :-)
tentmaker777 8 months ago
@tentmaker777 Not ALL Jews are in Hell. Just those of whom reject Jesus Christ as the Messiah. There are indeed such people as "Messianic" Jews.. aka Christian Jews. Whom are with Jesus Christ today.
Jesus completed His work of Atonement for sin on the Cross.. then went to Hell, taking the keys of Hell and Death back from satan, stripping him of all authority. Took the lake of fire to the furthermost depths 'pit' of Hell.. and preached VICTORY to those held captive in Hell.
margovallen 2 months ago
(cont) Then, delivered them (all but, the fallen angels, turned demons held in chains) over into Paradise aka Abraham's Boson.. then, upon His ascension into Heaven, led a train of those in Paradise.. up into Heaven.
Hence, the Gift of Grace... that must be accepted and received via repentance and belief through faith in Jesus Christ.
Many (most) reject this wonderful Gift of Grace.. therefore, inherit eternal damnation! God is Sovereign yet, gives us free-will to choose :-)
margovallen 2 months ago
@DJM8002 if you look closer at the translation in Acts 3, the word used is not restitution but restoration.countless scriptures back this up,you are quick to quote Jesus, but what about in John12;32 if i be lifted up from the earth I WILL DRAW "ALL"MEN UNTO ME!..dont you know that EVERY knee will bow and every tounge confess that Jesus is LORD to the glory of the Father, no1 can confess Jesus as lord except by the Holy Spirit, confession is made unto salvation, He makes ALL things new..:¬)
david1611kjv 5 months ago
@david1611kjv the "Every knee will bow and every tongue confess" thingy is that EVERY person will indeed do this... those of whom do it because they've known it and accepted it as truth long ago... and those of whom WILL HAVE TO BITE THE BULLET AND ADMIT IT IS SO.. AFTER HAVING SEEN IT FOR THEMSELVES... but, it will be too late for them. They had to see it to believe it.... whereas the rest believed it by faith.
margovallen 2 months ago
@margovallen ok so let me get this straight...God created everything and everyone with all foreknowledge of things that will come to pass...yet He will torture most of His creation forever????...then why did He bother?...is God not love?......romans3;3(kjv)For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?....it is Gods will that all be saved.He will do all His pleasure.He will see the travail of His soul and be satisfied.:¬)
david1611kjv 2 months ago
@david1611kjv Correct! He "bothered" because He was desiring for us to be obedient in our love for Him. Before the Great Flood, He became extremely disheartened the fact that His Creation of man had gravely disappointed Him. He destroyed it all and started from scratch w/Noah and his family. God, at that time already having a back-up plan, had better way for us to be able to not have to inherit eternal damnation but, life everlasting via Jesus Christ! UN-belief is damning, yes!
margovallen 2 months ago
(cont) One thing that seems to be difficult for many to grasp : It's not about "the Faith of God" but, our own Faith that allows us to believe in order for God to save us. If God did it all from the womb to Heaven, we would not have to do anything. We would not have any say in any of it, as God's Creation (us) would be a bunch of mindless, soul-less drones. Are we mindless drones? If someone offers me a gift, I know I must reach and accept it. Then, the gift is mine! :-)
margovallen 2 months ago
@david1611kjv Because you are so refusing to hear the truth you make replies AGAINST God Almighty. When you say "yet He will torture most of His creation forever?", you reply against God. God is not a man, that he should hear someone. God created all things for HIS pleasure. If you think that the wrath of God nullifies the truth that God is love, then you are after something other than God. God sets the standards my friend; not the feelings of men and their minds.
DJM8002 2 months ago
@DJM8002 so His pleasure is to torture people and your fine with that?????....do you think that God is this sick and petty?..and so incapable of restoring the creation that He is responsible for.....your god sucks dude!....if you truly love your fellow man as yourself then how could you ever be happy in eternity knowing that your God is torturing your fellow man with no hope of escape?..or will he give you some sort of spiritual labotomy so that you are ignorant and wont care?
david1611kjv 2 months ago
And you refuse to agree with what the Lord Jesus Christ has declared is the truth. As for your question about "did I find the Lord or did he find me", it isn't matter of "finding" God. Its a matter of choosing to follow God. It is God who revealed himself to me, but ulitametely it was my CHOICE to ask him to be my Lord and Saviour, wash away my sins, and become the Lord of my life.
DJM8002 8 months ago
@DJM8002 Your vanity betrays you. Acts 3:21, Read "who chooses who" by Gary Amirault. Google it. Your choosing proves your vanity. All we like sheep have gone astray. There is NONE that seeks, including you.
tentmaker777 8 months ago
@tentmaker777 "Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people."
DJM8002 8 months ago
@tentmaker777 Nobody needs to read ANY OTHER BOOKS OTHER THAN THE WORD OF GOD. Thats why you've missed it sir. You're trusting in the supplementary text of those of whom are lost hence, 'the blind leading the blind." Everything we need is in the Written Holy Word of God. Trust nothing else! Has nothing to do with "vanity".. as the God who created us gave us a brain and a Free-Will to choose.
margovallen 2 months ago
(cont) Did you choose your own wife or was it an arranged marriage? Surely, you'd want your wife to love you for you.. and not because she is suppose to because it was arranged, yes?
Very same thing with God. He is surely Sovereign.. but, in that sovereignty He allows us to choose. The sign of true love.. and non-abuse of power. He doesn't want us to love Him because we are mindless drones and don't know any better or worse.
"Choose you this day whom you'll serve." - Joshua 24:15
margovallen 2 months ago
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@tentmaker777 The Bible tells us to "seek and you shall find." God created us, He knows exactly where we are at all times. He doesn't have to seek us, we are to seek Him. God created us, He offered His Plan, He holds the Trump-Card! We don't design our own way to Heaven. We get there by doing what He says in order to have Eternal Life. We are in no position to think we are superior in that genre. If we don't want Heaven thats a decision we ARE in position to make & how we make it.
margovallen 2 months ago
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margovallen 2 months ago
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Since you have brought up the subject of "Fear" and while we are on that subject, I think there are some important scriptures you ought to hear
"And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the LORD, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding." Job 28:28
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding." Proverbs 9:10
DJM8002 8 months ago
Tentmaker777, you seem to be ignoring some very simple truths in the scriptures I have quoted you. I am not exactly sure what "fear" you are referring to when you say "fear has blinded me to the truth". You still haven't said anything to counter the scripture I quoted that says "for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it"
DJM8002 8 months ago
@DJM8002 The Gate is as narrow as one person, the person Jesus Christ. And few find Him, but HE FINDS EVERYONE because He came to seek and save them which are lost. Where you once lost, my friend? Did you find Jesus or did He find you? Be VERY careful how you answer that question, lest pride betray you.
tentmaker777 8 months ago
@tentmaker777 You still haven't said anything that stands against the scripture I quoted. You simply cut-out part of the scripture and only responded to the party that your fallacious argument actually has any ability to respond to. I will re-post the part that you refuse to acknowledge: "for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:"
These are the words of Jesus. Jesus Christ is the King of kings and the Lord of lords.
DJM8002 8 months ago
DJM8002 6 minutes ago Jesus is the door for the salvation of the whole world. Rigtht now most of the world doesn't see that including YOU. So YOU are on the road that leads to destruction. YOU blaspheme God and doen't even blink an eye. How can you say you know Jesus when you say He fails for most of mankind? Visit the tentmaker ministries site. It has tons of material on the subject. This subject can't be debated in this platform, it's to leave a comment and then go on.
tentmaker777 8 months ago
@tentmaker777 We are to be the ones of whom SEEK, in order to find. God knows exactly where each of us are. He's not the lost one and in need of salvation.... but, it is we whom are.
I pray that you toss your deal and get onto the narrow road.. via Christ. The one who puts us where we need to be :-)
margovallen 2 months ago
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Revelation 21:8 "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death"
DJM8002 8 months ago
The Word of God is very clear on this. Anyone who is saying that no one will go to hell is a LIAR. Eternal damnation in hell is what every single person is ALL READY condemned to; it is only by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour that you can be saved from this.
DJM8002 8 months ago
@DJM8002 "This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance and to this end we both labor and suffer reproach (from guys like DJM8002) because we trust in the living God who is the savior of ALL MEN, especially those that believe. These things command and teach." 1 Tim. 4:9-11 THAT is what Paul the apostle to the nations taught, that is what I teach, that is what the word of God teaches and anyone who teaches otherwise (Lke DJM8002) is deceived according to the Bible.
tentmaker777 8 months ago
@tentmaker777
I am not trying to attack you; I am simply trying to expose you to the truth. I want you to know the truth. Jesus Christ is the saviour of all men in the sense that he died for all of the sins of the world. This means that no matter what kind of sinner you are, no matter what you have done, if you repent and ask the Lord Jesus Christ to forgive you and to become your Saviour, you will be saved. But you cannot be saved unless you BELIEVE.
DJM8002 8 months ago
@DJM8002 Everyone WILL believe in the "fullness of time." Jesus is the Savior of the world. THAT is what you should believe. But you don't. So you perpetrate on poor souls a God who is going to torture most of mankind because they didn't believe at the right time. Well, Jesus holds the keys to death and Hell and He knows what to do with those keys, set the prisoners free.
tentmaker777 8 months ago
"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:9
John 3: 17-18 "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God"
DJM8002 8 months ago
@DJM8002 Yes, that is true. And this is also true that "every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord TO THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER." not to His shame. Everyone either on this side of the grave or the other side will meet the real Jesus, not the twisted false image the church has painted for 1600 years and they will ALLLL fall in love with Him. It's in the Bible, but fear has blinded you to the truth.
tentmaker777 8 months ago
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"For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed" Romans 10: 10-11
DJM8002 8 months ago
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"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kindgom of God" John 3:3
"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it" Matthew 7:13-14
DJM8002 8 months ago
J. Preston Eby is writing a wonderful work titled "From the Candlestick to the Throne" for anyone wanting insight into the book of Revelation.
You can find it at ... sigler org/eby/...
God bless you J.Preston Eby and thank God for you.
mario10311 9 months ago
@mario10311 Who writes a book about something they don't know about? Those of whom are lost and un-knowing per the topic of the book. Never read material written by those of whom are lost. It can end in nothing good.
margovallen 2 months ago
It wasnt long until I was admonished that I was wrong and reading heretical writing. Soon I was another one of the throngs of people going in and out of mainstream religious institutions, continually seeking, knocking and asking with no answers to satisfy me...And here it is 13 years later and Ive come full circle back to a doctrine that resonates with what I have found to be true. I have no use for the little itty bitty petty war god who rules by fear, he doesnt even exist except in mens minds!
N1k1mon 10 months ago
I was 19 when I came upon this teaching, I remember being at work, we had computer access and there was a printer. It wasnt so much that we couldnt print whatever we wanted, it was that technically, I shouldnt be spending my time feverishly searching through messages of the gospel. Well, I felt it was too important and remember printing about a thousand pages of this stuff and within a few weeks "got converted". I too had my smuggling experience with this gospel as I had to smuggle the paper out
N1k1mon 10 months ago
@N1k1mon My friend, if you think U have gotten converted via the message this guy has put before U, you are sadly mistaken! The message of the heretic is damning to the soul, should one take heed to it. Please, don't listen to these 'wolves' and get the message of the Gospel of Jesus Christ into your heart, soul and being via getting saved and listening to the Holy Spirit in your reading and studying the Word of God. Otherwise, you're just listening to the testimony of a lost soul.
margovallen 2 months ago
When i see in scripture that God will work all things after the counsel of His own Will and read in scripture that he is of one mind (not double minded) as men and read it is his Will for the salvation of all men how dare we say God cannot get what he wants He is the Almighty not us to me it is being a enemy of the cross when we deny the salvation of all
Charityfailethnot777 11 months ago
The purpose of "Comments" is for a person to leave a comment positive or negative. This is NOT a discussion board. Anyone like dkarnish or peterpulpitpounder who hound this video leaving hundreds of posts is a SPAMMER and inconsiderate. These incessant posts will be removed not because the producer of the video is afraid of these spams but because these spammers are rude and inconsiderate.
tentmaker777 1 year ago 3
@dkarnish
You REALLY need to study the Original Language, because without it, you are a Blind man in a dark cave.
But this too,.....is up to GOD,.....not you or me.
EmeiBaguazhang 1 year ago
@dkarnish
No it is not clear at all,.......not the way YOU interpret the Word of God.
"I choose you, you do NOT choose me!"
Is THAT clear enough,.....of course not.
The Blind cannot see.
Just do not attempt to drag anyone else into a ditch with you.
EmeiBaguazhang 1 year ago
dkarnish wrote: NO, thats not true, they are just about identical in thought and meaning, but not language
I just wanted you to put your foot in your mouth before I gave some examples and the space in is really not condusive to do this. I'm going to go and pray for you to get more honest. And tomorrow, when I find some time, I'll dig up some choice examples of how the Dead Sea scrolls differed from the Masoretic. In the meantime, I'm still waiting for YOUR translation. Convict her, Holy Spirit
tentmaker777 1 year ago
Sweety, I can tell by what you wrote you haven't a clue. You're just mouthing some book or wikipedia article you read. I can show you verses in the Isaiah Scroll from Qumram that DIFFERS from the Masoretic Text used for our modern Bible translations. Girl, your faith is more what preachers taught you than your personal relationship with Jesus. You're parrot. And as far as study goes, you haven't scratched the surface, and your heart knows it. How many children do you have? Could you burn them?
tentmaker777 1 year ago
dkarnish writes: God's covenants are eternal.
Oh, really? 1 Cor. Ch. 3, Eph. 2:15; Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Do you stone your rebellious children? Do you tell Jews that should still do that?
tentmaker777 1 year ago
We are going to find out who is ridiculous. What is YOUR Bible translation? No more stalling.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 I will tell you since you asked, even though you will just come back and tell me that they are all corrupted and have been changed, denying that God protects His very own word. Geneva, KJV, NLT, NASB, RSV, ESV, Living Bible, and countless others to numerous to list here. Now, if you would be so kind as to state exactly which versions you use primarily, the top 5 would be good starters.
dkarnish 1 year ago
I am going to ask you to go to God right now. I want to see if you are really being honest and sincere. You spoke specifically of YOUR translation in another post. Ask the Holy Spirit if you are being honest right now. I believe there is A translaion which you call YOUR Bible. You pray to God right now and see if He convicts you right now of not being honest with me. I'm going to pray to Him right now too. Which of these translations would your husband , if you have one, is your main translation
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 I already answered this for you I thought, did you misunderstand what I stated in a previous post? I have been honest with you from the very beginning. I have nothing to hide about which translations I have been reading.
dkarnish 1 year ago
I will pray that the Holy Spirit will convict you because I don't believe you. You specifically mentioned "YOUR translation." That's singular, not plural. Yes, you may have several, but if you need to look up a verse real quick, you will go to a particular translation, which is it? And why so evasive?
tentmaker777 1 year ago
Well over 90 percent of the world, my friend never got a chance, never heard the gospel and your gospel can't give them a chance because after they die that is no hope for them. But I know a savior who holds the keys to death and hades and knows how to evangelize the dead. I know a Lord of the living AND THE DEAD. I hope one day you'll know such an awesome powerful Savior. He will perfect His love in you and drive all that demonic fear out of you.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 NO you don't know scripture, Peter explains that Jesus preached the Gospel unto those that had died before the cross, and you make Jesus a liar when you say that because He said the Gospel would be preached unto the ends of the world. God wouldn't offer a plan of salvation if He wasn't going to make it available to all mankind, He would be creating people just for damnation and picking favorites to go heaven. Thats not Jesus. Its the command to us who believe to go out and teach it
dkarnish 1 year ago
I realize you have been brainwashed not to pay close attention to the scriptures, but pay attention this time. Look at the tense of the words: Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. Is "went" past tense? And how far is "ends of the world." And when was this done? Now I realize this messes with your head. But you see, it is the eschatology you've been taught that is messing this up for you.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
What I teach requires the 'FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST," not YOUR faith in Jesus Christ. You can't even confess Jesus as Lord without the help of God. So why don't you see everyone else is in the same condition? It's all about God and nothing about you. There is NONE righteous, nay, not one. Adam condemned us all and Christ will save us all. To me, that's good news. And to millions of others who have had the tradtions of men removed from their eyes.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
Jesus said the Holy Spirit(the Spirit of Truth) would lead his followers into all truth, Jesus IS the only Way the only Truth and the only Life. (John 14:6) Since the Holy Spirit leads people to Jesus, who is the truth, denying Who(Jesus) the Holy Spirit leads a person to is blasphemy, and UNFORGIVABLE, by the Lords very own words. So you deny the WORD, Jesus is THE WORD of GOD, so you are denying Jesus. This puts you in the realm of blasphemy and teaching that blasphemy to others.
dkarnish 1 year ago
That's false. He was speaking to the self-righteous Pharisees (who speak like you do) and told them they would not be forgiven in THIS AGE NOR IN THE AGE TO COME. The KJV mistranslated aion. There are ages, plural past and ages, plural in the future. Jesus did NOT say the pharisees could never be forgiven. Don't you remember all Jesus said about the importance to forgive? Is Jesus a hypocrite? All mankind will be forgiven.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 don't quote the KJV on your web page repeatedly and then tell me it got it mistranslated something, that ridiculous. Quote a source and then claim the source is corrupted, are you that confused? And yes Jesus did state exclusively to those who claimed he was casting out devils by the power of Satan that they had just blasphemed the HOLY SPIRIT and would NEVER be forgiven, are you going to make Jesus out to be a liar now and claim He didn't say this? You are a very confused man.
dkarnish 1 year ago
I told you why I usually quote translations people are familiar with. I told you Universal Salvation can be proven in ANY translation, in some it's more difficult like the KJV because it is so hellish and archaic. And I told you the Pharisees will be forgiven in an age in the future, not the age Jesus was in, not the next age, the one we are in, but in the next age, when you grow up and learn righteous judgment. Who knows, maybe Jesus will let YOU teach the Pharisees the truth. But first get it.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 then you are misleading people, that is like me saying I use the book of mormon to get through to mormons because they are familiar with it. Thats absurd, either you believe 2 Timothy 3:16, that all scripture is breathed out by God and is good for training, correction, reproof etc, or you don't believe that, thats up to you, but if you don't believe that, then you deny the very WORD Himself, who penned those very words through the Holy Spirit and faithful men. Which do you believe?
dkarnish 1 year ago
Now YOU are being absurd. Ok, let's try something else. What translation do you use? And do you believe YOUR translation in inerrant? And don't tell me you believe the scriptures are inerrant in their originals. YOU DON"T HAVE THE ORIGINALS. You have YOUR translation. Is it inerrant?
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 I read every translation I can get my hand on, I know God would not give me a broken record of Himself and then leave me to try to figure it all out. He protects HIS HOLY WORD, no I don't have the originals, neither does anyone else but Greek is still Greek, and Hebrew is still Hebrew, and we have 25,000 copies of the original copies that have been scrutinized over for almost two millennia, by some men who's sole object was to glorify the name of Jesus by getting it right.
dkarnish 1 year ago
YOu are not being truthful. You mentioned specifically YOUR translation. How cough up the name. Don't play footsieys with me. When someone asked you to look up a verse, what translation do you go to?
tentmaker777 1 year ago
You turn the most beautiful expression of God's Love to man, sacrificing His only SON to take our place, our deserved wrath, our deserved separation from Him, our completely deserverd judgment onto Himself to reconcile fallen man (God's enemies) back to a loving relationship with the Father into a cheap bandaid for even those who CHOOSE to reject this free gift, who choose to reject Jesus and what he did on the cross by choosing to not believe in HIM. A cheap get out of hell free for disbelief.
dkarnish 1 year ago
Lies again. You turn the cross into mockery. Jesus came to save the world and you say He can't. That is unbelief. Did Paul "chose" Jesus? Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. Joh 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last d
tentmaker777 1 year ago
By your own words you make Jesus, the LORD, and creator of this world, every thing and every one in it out to be a liar. 2 Thessalonians 1:7b when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with EVERLASTING* destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory or His power. *Greek AIDIOS permanence and UNchangeableness!
dkarnish 1 year ago
On Tentmaker Ministries web site is "Scholars Corner." and a book "Bible Threatenings Explained." Under "everlasting destruction" is the answer to your question. No, I don't make God a liar, you do. Jesus said He came to save the world. You don't believe He can. We'll find out who is the liar, you or Jesus. Rom 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written,
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 There you go again, picking and choosin from an unreliable source. Please refrain from telling me what I believe, you tell me that all English versions of the Bible are corrupt, and then you quote from them. So if you believe they are corrupt, then why do you use a corrupt source, your making a fool of yourself. Either its completed reliable and infallible or its not, if its not a firm foundation then you really shouldn't stand on it, especially if you constantly misquote it.
dkarnish 1 year ago
If I quoted from the Young's literal, Rotherham's Emphasized, Concordant literal, Twentieth Century N.T., Weymouths, etc, etc. you'd condemn me for using nonsense translations. If I use your own line of translations to prove universal salvation, you still condemn me. See, friend, it doesn't matter what translation I use, you love your hell, you want some folks it in and you'll find a way of putting some folks in regardless of the translation. Hell is in your heart and until it's removed from the
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 NO, I don't condemn you, you did that yourself when you used a translation after telling me it was corrupted and unreliable. NO, I don't love hell, I love Jesus and I believe what HE SAID. I'm don't need to find a way for any of what you said, Its clearly defined in scripture. I pray that you come to the full knowledge of the truth and stop cheapening the sacrifice Jesus made on the Cross for all of humanity, but people can accept or reject this, just as the Bible says they will.
dkarnish 1 year ago