Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald: Part 9 - August 1994

[Mortskcab]

If a diver tries hard enough, and has the right equipment he'll reach the Fitz if he wants to bad enough. No ban will stop him.

[krstnlhjt]

Gathering data for History is essential. And so is preserving grave sites whereever the site may be. Todays technology should allow for research as well as family preservation wishes. Both need to be met.

[lesterclaypool1]

@krstnlhjt

We're still a ways away from being completely non intrusive in our information gathering, but I don't imagine that the scenerio that you've described will be that far off with the leaps and bounds that we're making technology wise.

The familes being, understandably, divided will always be an issue in any wreck. Some are content to leave their loved ones lie, others are not. Regardless, I'm of the opinion that their wishes take precedence over our curiousity.

[krstnlhjt]

@lesterclaypool1 agreed

[pksgigi]

I think they should be allowed to dive but not allowed to touch or remove anything , it's just like walking through a graveyard you are allowed to go visit but you must respect it.

[Droodie]

Forgive my ignorance but at this depth and temperature of a fresh water lake, I'm assuming there are well preserved skeletal remains of the crew. Perhaps it's for this reason that families of those lost are sensitive about further dives?

[letterforms]

All diving on the Fitzgerald has stopped... and the reason why it has stopped was out of respect to the families who lost loved ones.

[Mortskcab]

i bet with new technology and further examination of the wreck will find the cause of the sinking. And the familes agreed they would allow a dive to the wreck if it had a good chance of proving how the ship sank

[bnodurft]

Family members actually petitioned the Canadian government to stop dives to the wreck and most of them remain opposed to further dives.

[551934]

Of all the nerve...they're just like the people who think they can just walk right through the cemetery where my grandfather is buried, all the while defiling his grave with their uncouth eyesight.

I want to start a petition to force google to remove every last satellite image they have of a cemetery, because that's disturbing gravesites just like these pieces of human trash are with their video camera...

[Mortskcab]

they didnt disturb the grave site for god sakes! we must dive down to the fitz now! I heard that a sonar scan in 2002 showed that a part of the fitz deck is collapsing due to decay! we must dive down know if we ever want to know what sank the mighty fitz!

[bnodurft]

They actually did disturb the wreck site. They had quite a taconite mining operation going on - see the You Tube video "Operation Taconite on the Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald". The creditibility the 2002 sonar scan of the Fitzgerald is questionable since it was obtained without the Ontario Ministry of Culture's required license and it has no verification except by the Great Lakes Shipwreck Historical who has an established record of improper and/or illegal activity on shipwrecks.

[letterforms]

Yes, you're right.  I know Tom Farquist personally and he stated that this is why diving has stopped.

[letterforms]

You are so disingenuous! Hey, let's all dig up one of your family remembers over a period of 20 years in the name of "we're trying to learn more."

I know Tom Farnquist personally, he stated we have haulted all diving because the investigation has gone as far as it can go. Out of respect for the families and where their loved ones lie, we have ceased all diving.

GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT BEFORE YOU SPEAK.

[Mortskcab]

I gaurentee you in 30 years their will be manned visits to the fitz again... besides if the ship had not sunk most of the crew would be dead by now anyways due to old age.... its not a grave site its an accident site..... just like a dealy car wreck.... Thats not a grave site...... Dont you see that the best tribute to give the 29 brave men is to solve the mystery... and close minded people like you will never let that happen

[letterforms]

Unbelievable! You are so ignorant of the facts.

Talk to Tom Farnquist you simpleton (Whitefish Bay Shipwreck Museum). Tom Farnquist was involved in a full investigation that spanned over 20 years. There will be NO more "legal" dives on the site. A final tribute came in 1994 when the bell was resurected and a replacement bell was lowered on the wreck. Go dig up a loved one's grave, but leave this one alone.

RESEARCH YOUR FACTS BEFORE YOU ATTEMPT TO SUPPORT YOUR BUFFOONERY.

[letterforms]

The families simply do not want any more dives on the ship so I am trying to understand who this tribute is supposed to be for?

[Mortskcab]

For them! I'm sick of people telling me where i can and can not dive! i have dreams about diving the fitz since i was young. My dream is to one day look at the ship that captivated my childhood and I'm not letting you people take away my dream. I have been diving with my uncle for about ten years.... he says that there are too much poltics involed with wreck diving. Tom Farnquist is a criminal he stole the bell and is now profiting off of it knowing it would attract more visitors to his musem.

[letterforms]

The FAMILIES are telling YOU to stop diving on the grave of their loved ones.

At the request of the FAMILIES, Tom Farnquist raised the old bell and replaced it with a replica.

Furthermore in 1995, the FAMILIES, Gordon Lightfoot and Tom Farnquist held a commeration ceremony to honor that event.

The FAMILIES thanked Tom Farnquist and at the FAMILIES REQUEST, Tom gave his word that there would be no more dives.

So your dream takes precedence over all of this?

[rosariofan101]

sorry to tell you this we dont care if people tell us to stop we are going to for the future of history and intrest of the veiwers if you have a problem, the you and the FAMILIES can write a petition which will be thrown out

[lesterclaypool1]

@rosariofan101

Seeing as the government has now told you to stop, as well, I guess that that petition worked.

[rosariofan101]

@lesterclaypool1 guess so

[letterforms]

spelling "commemoration"

... and you're a simpleton, educate yourself before calling someone a crook.

[ShabogamoLakeRider]

@Mortskcab

Wrong. Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong you are WRONG. The bell was recovered for the families for closure. It was the families who wanted the bell. Not Farquist. "If we couldn't have the men, then we wanted the bell". -Janice Armagost. Don't get me wrong, I was captivated by the Fitzgerald ever since I was a child too. But, you got to respect the families. Your "dreams" are nothing important compared to their greif.

[Mortskcab]

@ShabogamoLakeRider yeah it sucks they died.... but the best tribute to those brave men is finding out how they died.....  how are we gonna sole it if we cant return to the wreck? I'm sick of the government telling me what i can and can not do.....

[lesterclaypool1]

@ShabogamoLakeRider

In my last indepth look into this, the families were as divided on the bell recovery as they were on any possible recovery of their men.

You can't please all of the people all of the time in any matter that involves two or more people. SLR.

[lesterclaypool1]

@Mortskcab

It never fails to amaze me how up your own ass you sport divers are:

Stepping over the bodies of dead men to take part in your pissing contest of one.

[Mortskcab]

@lesterclaypool1 The human body is nothing more than a shell. The spirits of those brave men are with god. My uncle dives on many wrecks and he respects them we are sick of the government telling us were we can and cannot dive. Besides If I died in a wreck i would want my family to have closeure on why my ship sank. The only way to solve how a big ship like the fitz went down while lesser ships survived the storm is by diving down and penetrating the hull to look for clues.

[lesterclaypool1]

@Mortskcab

"Besides if I died in a wreck I would want my family to have the closure on why my ship sank."

In the case of the Fitz the families feel that they have this closure. This was a privately funded vessel manned by private citizens. If it were a vessel that had been funded by our tax dollars manned by individuals on my taxes payroll, I would feel the way that you do. As it isn't, and as the families are content with the information that they do have, your curiousity is not justified.

[Mortskcab]

@lesterclaypool1 I guess we have to agree to disagree. I hered from a diver in Duluth say that the wreck will evenutally be reopened for diving once all the family members of the fitz crew all pass away. so this ban is only prolonging the unaviodable

[lesterclaypool1]

@Mortskcab

It's been my experience that the families are very understanding of the curiousity that still surrounds this wreck.

If new technology is brought to them, as I'm sure it will very shortly, that will not distrub the wreck I doubt that they would object to further study being conducted, but as it stands we don't have that technology...yet.

Bear in mind that you would still have to deal with the government to get clearence for your dive and if it is purely sport it won't be approved.

[Mortskcab]

@lesterclaypool1 Rest easy cuse I'll never go down there. My uncle wont ethier he hates diving below the 200ft depth. You need super advanced equipment just to reach the fitz. the cost of the equipment plus the price of the boat to bring you out there, would probably cost about 100,000 dollars. 2 guys did actualy reached the wereck by diving... they only spent about 6 minuets on the wreck itself though.

[lesterclaypool1]

@Mortskcab

And the dive community knows about those two guys, which is the only reason that tech divers would dive this wreck...for the notoriety amongst their peers. You know as a diver, yourself, that nothing of any educational value could be obtained in a tech dive, so why even bother doing it? Which gets back to my original comment about divers being up their own ass :).

I moreso hate the thought of tech divers, and heaven forbid sport divers, dying down there trying to prove something.

[lesterclaypool1]

@Mortskcab

Con't We already have so many desireable, and often dangerously stupid, dive sites where people get killed why advertise another that has bad dive written all over it? A deep timed air dive in dark cold open water where weather can change in a heartbeat to see a ship that is becoming more decrepit every day, all you need is a drunk dive master and faulty equipment to make this scenerio any worse.

Go use your skill somewhere nice, man. There's beautiful, legal diving in Aruba.

[YTbob721]

@Mortskcab Going down to the ship won't solve anything. The community has a pretty good idea of what sank the ship. They have it narrowed down, anyway. Some of it comes from the design. Some of it comes from the maintenance of the ship. Some of it comes from the lack of regard for the weather that day. The Fitz left Superior with uncovered hatches and steamed into a storm of historical proportions.

[Goofus5453]

@YTbob721 Hatch cover's didn't have anything to do with it.

[YTbob721]

@Goofus5453 So, with a forecast for gales the following day that would include waves rolling over the deck and a master willing to pull away from the dock in Superior without closing the hatch covers because it was company policy to not pay overtime for work on Sundays WASN'T a factor?

[Goofus5453]

@YTbob721 The hatch covers where closed friend. The hatches where closed on the way out. Have you seen the interview with the captian of the anderson? Check it out, it all makes sense. Let me know what you think.

[YTbob721]

@Goofus5453 The Anderson wasn't present at the neighboring dock in Superior when the Fitz departed. Read Raymond Ramsay's book. He and the CRA interviewed the crew. According to the skipper and the mate they departed with the hatches OFF, because the two of them had a conversation regarding it, especially in light of the weather report. This makes sense when McSorley the next evening is heard to shout off radio "Don't let nobody out on deck!" Flooding certainly explains the list.

[Goofus5453]

@YTbob721 I was not there like you, but i'm sure they they put the covers on. I believe what captian Cooper said, that at 3 10 that afternoon the ship grounded in shallow water or the hull split. The ship had a sudden list and the fence rail had broken, a sure sign that the hull had hogged. The ship could pump over 9000 gallons a minute but could'nt keep up. I just don't believe the hatch cover theory, sorry.

[YTbob721]

@Mortskcab Massive flooding sank the ship, and it probably broke apart, owing to the lack of a distress signal. After seeing how the Algoport sank in the Pacific, I'm not sure I'd sail on any ship on the Lakes, except a salty.

[letterforms]

The families simply do not want any more dives on the ship so I am trying to understand who this tribute is supposed to be for?

[letterforms]

date error. It was 1995

[bnodurft]

There is a lot of misinformation floating around about the Fitz. It was Joe MacInnis who was the expedition leader and held the archaeological license to salvage the Fitz bell. And the Canadians will still grant a site-specific license to dive to the Fitz for archaeological study. See the website whitefishpointwatch to see this information.

[lesterclaypool1]

@bnodurft

0:40 "In the hull"?

I thought that no dives were cleared to penetrate, or is that just a slip of the tongue?

[YTbob721]

@lesterclaypool1 There is a video circulating where a dive was made into one of the holds.

[YTbob721]

@letterforms Facts like the wedding ring from the crew member's hand on the Superior City that is/was displayed in the museum after being shown in the documentary "Graveyard of the Great Lakes"?

[ShabogamoLakeRider]

@Mortskcab

The deck did not collapse due to decay, It collapsed because when it hit the bottom, the explosive force tore open the sides, the deck was hanging there by a thread.

[kinkajou777]

The grave robbers covered all angles of the disturbe grave!