to the people who say that trainers DO have a bond... why did tilikum kill dawn? why did ky attack his trainer in texas? why did kasatka drag ken peters to the bottom of the pool and break his foot? why are there numerous accounts of orca attacks against trainers? that sure does sound like a great friendship to me, *sarcasm* just think about that
You know, you are always talking about how arrogant SeaWorld is, yet here you are. Talking about something you have no solid proof of. You are speaking as if you know the thought process of a killer whale. Who are you to say that they don't have a bond?
@webkinzX0X0 - Do you not think its arrogant to assume there IS a bond? It's a moot point. There is no way to prove, as there is evidence to suggest either way. This video is my OPINION, ie I already know it is not factual. But you can't scientifically prove there is a bond either.
@FreedomForOrcas cause i love dolphins especially orcas and because there were no other good usernames to go with dolphins or orcas so i chose this one
Ok, i watched some videos and ur right they do it for the fish but that doesn't mean that they don't have a bond with their trainers ok, first of all u don't know if the orcas are happy with their trainers or not,
And second of all u should talk to one of the trainers and they will tell u the truth and if u ever have an expierience with a killer whale then i gurantee u that u will change your mind
The orcas are not forced to do anything and their food is not withheld. Most of the time they don't get fish as a reward. they get ice, snowballs, a rubdown, or hot water in their mouth. Each whale has a specific diet that is weighed to the ounce. I attended SW career camp& we had to prepare their food for them... i also asked if they kept them hungry b4 a show, and the trainer said she would quit her job if she was ever asked to do that.
@SoCalGal96 - Yeah because asking SeaWorld themselves is SO trustworthy. Of course SW isn't going to tell you the truth, are you really that blind? And btw, several prominent trainers have quit their jobs BECAUSE they don't agree with the practices that go on at SeaWorld! If trainers themselves are leaving because it's cruel, why won't you believe that?
The other trainers stay because they feel that if they left, no one would care for them. True facts.
@FreedomForOrcas I know this because i attended SW Career camp. we went to the back dolphin pool where they are all being trained-we put on wet suits to take part in a training session. the dolphin i was with loved ice, so when she did the behavior we gave her ice. when she did it incorrectly we would stay still for 3 sec so th environment was not changed and the consequence was no ice. they call this LRS-Least Reinforcing Scenario. the dolphin next to me was rewarded by being spayed with a hose
@SoCalGal96 - You obviously didn't listen to a thing I said. If a company is doing something wrong, do you think they will tell everyone that they are doing something wrong? Um... NO.
That, in all honesty, sounds really demeaning. Do you actually think its right to treat these intelligent, self-aware beings like this? You are showing that might is right, that you can dominate these animals if you want to. Have you ever thought about leaving them in the wild where they BELONG?
@FreedomForOrcas so what you are saying is that the employees put on this huge act? And they did have a bond with them. One of the dolphins saw a trainer cleaning algae & started bringing algae to her in her mouth, she did not get rewarded for it, she did it for the positive reaction the trainer gave her. she would say"look your cleaning your room, thank you for helping" in a cheerie voice and the dolphin would dive down for more. she did it for almost 30 min until the trainer stoped cleaning.
@FreedomForOrcas my point is that the dolphin was enjoying the trainer and was wanting the positive reaction. She was making sounds that sounded excited, and she was making enthusiastic mannerisms. the trainer sat by the pool for ten min and just talked and was playing fetch with the dolphin. the dolphin stayed by her side not because she was forced to, but because she wanted to. i later learned that that trainer spent the most time w? tht dolphin. trainer walked around trhe corner and called th
@FreedomForOrcas e dolphins name and the dolphin began jumping around the pool because she heard her voice. it was an amazing thing to watch first hand the BOND they had. it was a true friendship. I wrote you to let you know that you made a mistake by saying they were kept hungry. maybe they did it in the past, but they dont do it now. and you should know im a biased person who agrees animals should not b taken out of their environment, if you dont know me then dont call names..its rude
they dont use food deprevation u cant force them to do anything and if they dont want to do it they dont care and they dont always use food they use affection
@sealifelover1 - Actually, you CAN force a large animal to do something it doesn't want to do. Look at elephants in a circus - they are large, powerful animals, and they are literally beaten to perform. They could easily snap the neck of one of the ringleaders if they wanted (and sometimes, there are cases where they lash out and they do), but most of them don't.
Whilst orcas are not beaten, food is used as leverage to get animals to perform. Do you think they actually WANT to? Hell no!
Hey, I would love to talk to you about some of the points you made, do you have an aim or yahoo? reading the comments back and fourth on here is confusing -_-
Ok...they do feed their whales the amount they are supposed to be fed they are not withheld from food. AND if you have a dog dont you give it a treat if he preforms a trick right for you? it is the same thing they give them their normal food. when they do tricks right then they give them food so that they know they did a good job. it is just how they learn just like any other animal. they are not being starved. their "tricks" are natural behaviors just put with a signal...you just sound stupid.
@JoSweets1 - Please refer to my other video orcas ≠ dogs. Or do you really think that orcas are no better than household pets? Wow, some respect YOU have for them.
@FreedomForOrcas I understand your point dont get me wrong. But are you arguing for all captive animals or just orcas because you cant fight for one but think its ok for all. I agree that all animals should be free in their natural habitat. All i was saying was they arent being torturted and there are reasons to support how they dont hate it. I love orcas I have loved them since I was 3 yrs old.
@FreedomForOrcas and you make household pets sound like they are lower than dirt. Dogs are very intelligent and so are some reptiles that people own. I am in no means saying hey build a tank lets all have our own whale pets. But Dogs werent always household pets. every animal that can be in your typical home was not always there. I understand your arguments but the way people love to watch them up close and personal like any other animal in the zoo, it wont end ever! sad truth.
Amen on pointing out the same fact with the dog. I say this all the time and people respond "a dog is not a wild animal" but, a dog was once a wild animal. Mankind domesticated dogs, trained them, and developed a bond with them.
Personally, I believe it is no different with this HUGE yet BEAUTIFUL animal.
@Twilighter6317 - I think the comparison to dogs and orcas are completely different.
One - domestication of dogs took hundreds of years. Captive orca breeding will most likely end (unless with fresh genes) within 50-100 years.
Two - the reason wolves were domesticated in the first place was because the two species often relied upon each other for food and hunting. Orcas do not share the same relationship with man - they were forcibly captured.
@FreedomForOrcas the ones born there dont know the difference. and actually orcas do rely some what on what humans do in order for them to survive. and we rely on them in order to survive. I agree that they are beautiful and should be in the wild but i am guilty of enjoying them upclose. They are more intelligent than the common dolphin if they werent at all satisfied even a tad bit they are smart enough to create a way were we would have to let them all go.
@FreedomForOrcas Plus orcas are social creatures they love interaction...Now with tilly i think he shouldnt of been isolated i think being isolated more than the others hurt his social need and thats wrong and probably part of why he attacked Dawn. I think orcas deserve more credit then they get. They do socialize with people in the wild but hey they hate that right.
@Twilighter6317 Thanks...and you are right...funny thing people dont get is why do they forget about keiko? he LOVED people...you could put a child in a tank with him and he would be gentle with them. kids in iceland used to do that! he saught out people. Orcas are more intelligent than the common dolphin and dolphins love people what makes people think orcas dont love being touched and loved!! people freedive with them in norway and in new zealand they love checkin people out!
Food deprivation was out phased a long time ago, and some animals respond difrently to diffrent stimuli, some prefer a rub down or a bucket of water or ice chips. I'm not saying that Sea World is perfect, they have alot they have to fix in my opinion but no two animals are the same and hence no two will respond the same way.
I just... I don't even know. I'm not looking for an argument, even though it wouldn't be a problem, but I absolutely disagree with every single bit of this.
I've seen a show at seaworld where they didn't reward the orcas with fish AT ALL because they were full. They hosed them off and gave them rub downs and they also used some giant stuffed animals but there was no feeding the orcas at all in the show.
There was clearly no research done before the making if this video. I want to be an orca trainer at SeaWorld one day and unlike you, I've done my research. You know the trainers at SeaWorld don't force the animals to do tricks by 'taking away their food.' In fact food is just one of the rewards for the Orcas. They also get toys, snowballs, tounge rubs (Orcas love that), belly rubs, exc. As rewards for good behavior. Fish is just one of many. Next time, get your facts straight.
U said u had pets right? My dog& I have a bond, r u going 2 tell me it's fake? What makes marine animals so special? Arent they smarter than dogs?yes! And don't hate on th SW CEOs & managers..what specific things hav they done that makes thm evil ppl? Why would u apply 4 a job at a place that rescues, traines, and is home 2 animals? It doesn't make sence.
@SoCalGal96 - Don't compare dogs to orcas, because their situations are completely different. Your arguments have no grounding and no factual basis. I'm tired of speaking to you.
@FreedomForOrcas Im done to, you are close-minded and i should have realized that from the previous comments. And (not saying this to be rude or mean, its just some friendly advice) when you degrade people and act like you are better it makes them not want to listen to you. If you want to convince people to be non- caps take a different approach (once again i am not saying this in a rude tone).
@SoCalGal96 - HAH. How am I close-minded? If I was, I would believe everything that SeaWorld tells me. Because I don't think outside of what I'm told. THAT is what being close-minded is.
Secondly, how am I supposed to reply to "I have a dog and that's like a bond?". DOGS ARE NOT ORCAS and their situations are COMPLETELY different. If you want to watch the video I made about it, please check it out. It's called Orcas ≠ dogs. I can't be bothered replying to it, so I will direct you there.
@FreedomForOrcas & I'm not giving volunteering credit 2 SW, but they have beach clean ups a lot and their rescue system is great!(you probably havnt seen them actually make a rescue and release though) just a couple weeks ago a sea turtle was released off my coastline.
@FreedomForOrcas I think it's kinda amusing how you make these debates into personal arguments. &sorry tht I misunderstood tht u havnt been 2 SW. You refuse to c the good in SW. I live right by SW &always see SW edu stands@ conventions. I live right by SW &always see SW edu stands@ conventions. And I would gladly take a survey cause I do learn.
First of all let me say you are strong for fighting for what you believe, but I disagree. First question: have you ever been to sea world? Second: have you had an animal interaction encounter? Third: do you have any pets of your own?... Sea world trainers do not starve the animals. They simply just reward them with extra treats. Like such as when you train a dog, you don't take away it's food until it does a trick, you just give it a treat. The trainers are experts on the animals they work with
@SoCalGal96 - 1) Everyone asks that, I don't see how it makes a difference. I don't need to visit a fur farm to know that it is wrong.
2) Yes, I've had animal interaction encounters... in the WILD. It felt good knowing the animals had the CHOICE to come up to me, not being forced to do so.
3) Yes, I've had several pets over the years. I know where you're going to lead this question, so don't bother. It's wrong.
Orcas are predators, not DOGS. They don't need you, or "treats". They need the ocean.
@FreedomForOrcas If you have never been to a Sea World park, then do not talk about how they dont do anything for conservation (like in some of your other videos). Because you do not know how at every exhibit you go to, they educate you on what you can do to help the animal in its natural habitat. 2) If you had an interaction at sea world, I think you would see things differently. When i did one, i learned that SeaWorld does as much as they can to recreate the animals natural habitat.
@SoCalGal96 -Education? Really? If that is the case, where are these billions of people that visit SeaWorld helping the environment and oceans? That's right, they are not. Because SeaWorld hasn't taught them to save the planet, just to go back and spend more money at SW. Otherwise, the oceans wouldn't still be in a declining state, animals still wouldn't be dying at the rate they are now, and maybe, just maybe, the Southern Resident orcas wouldn't still be suffering from the captures in the 60s.
Secondly, the interaction programs are nothing more than to fool guests into THINKING their environment is okay. Do you really think dolphins gladly let people pat them, and ride their backs in the wild? No. It is a perversion of nature. A captive environment can't satisfy all of a cetaceans needs, and this is shown through their early death rates, their stressed behaviour.
Also I don't need to see a dolphin in captivity to appreciate it. I can appreciate their way of life by leaving them alone.
@FreedomForOrcas How do you know the dolphins are "stressed"? you haven't even been there. Have you not noticed the rise in community service/ non profits? those "billions of people" are volunteering and thinking of the beautiful animal they saw at SW before they litter. if it weren't for sea world, then who would be educating the public about ocean conservation?(but once again, you haven't ever been their so you dont know how much educating they do).
@SoCalGal96 - Then why won't SeaWorld allow people to survey their guests to see what they learned? Because they learned nothing. And you cannot say the "rise in community service/non profits" is due to SeaWorld. That is highly unscientific, and you say it merely to give SW credit. You have no evidence at all for your arguments.
Actually, I have been to A Sea World in Australia, so watch your mouth before you blab nonsense. I learned more about animals watching documentaries than at SW.
@FreedomForOrcas "[One Ocean] it educates and inspires. Dancing fountains set the stage as you connect with thrilling sea creatures and realize we are all part of one world, one ocean. Your soul is ignited as our worlds are united… and you realize that we all have the power to make a difference in this planet we share." thats from the SW website.
@SoCalGal96 - Secondly, I have seen the One Ocean show, and from what I have heard with my own ears, there is NO education on HOW to save the environment. This is FACT. It doesn't tell you HOW, it just says "the planet is precious and needs to be saved!". They don't empower you with the knowledge on how to save the planet.
By the way, quoting the SeaWorld website shows that you do not know how to construct a proper argument without relying on bias sources. Yes, SW is a bias source.
While I do think that the trainers love the whales (i can't speak for the whales), I don't think that they have the mystical bond all pro-caps talk about.
@Believe13at - lol you were SO outraged by my comment that you just HAD to come onto one of my videos and leave a non-factual, unscientific reply. I'm sure your argument would win over so many people. Congrats, dumbass.
@petakills11 - At least I provide sources for my facts. You're the one spreading unscientific bullshit. Saying that you work with marine mammals? Oh yeah, because people can't make up ANYTHING on the internet. Liar.
@FreedomForOrcas.. Scientific facts would lead you to being pro-human care.. either you can't read or you deny... I don't have to prove my career status to you, you're frankly not worth my time considering you have no background, exp., or logic...
@petakills11 - Your arguments are not very good. So you say that you need to work with a dolphin before you can learn about a dolphin? Do I need to skin a cat alive to know that the fur trade is cruel? Or to participate in bear bile farming to learn about it? According to your twisted logic, I do.
@FreedomForOrcas.. When you're around these animals every day and actually see what kind of lives they live you'll get it.. until then follow your media b.s. You're mislead, and actually kinda making me laugh
@petakills11 - "Media b.s"? You're joking, right? The media LOVES SeaWorld. The media loves those cute little dolphins with their "smiles". No, I don't need to see a dolphin in captivity (but I have) to know that they do not belong in a tank. These animals travel hundreds of miles a day, this is PIVOTAL to their lifestyle. Captivity is wrong, and will never work for them.
@laceyv1993 - Whatever girl. You had your chance to defend your position in a mature and responsible way. You failed, and instead all you managed to prove was that you had the maturity of a 5 year old. Even now, that you continue to comment on my videos, proves that you are learning nothing. So enjoy being blocked missy.
I'm done arguing with someone who won't even hear the opposing side's views. We win, you lose in the real world. The end :) can't wait to go to SeaWorld next March for spring break so I can go watch these abused animals!
I'm not responding until you've answered all of my questions. And such a valid discussion you host because you BLOCK OUT those who oppose you? Give me a break. You're a close minded person who tries to make themselves look better by making it seem people are defeated when you're the losing one here. News flash- SW isn't ending anytime soon. The BP oil spill was ACCIDENTAL. And SW along with other ORGANIZATIONS sent specialists to help endangered animals from that event.
@laceyv1993 Um. No. I've let you comment on here, even with all the rude things you've said about me personally.
You need to calm down. Take a breath. Think about what you're writing before you say it. And be civilised. You'll see that you're the one acting like a child. So therefore if you continue to do so, I will treat you like one.
Are you ready to continue the discussion in an appropriate manner? Yes? Good :)
Feel free to repeat your questions WITHOUT childish insults. If you fail, goodbye.
Oh, and once more- what about the fact that you're degrading the orcas by insinuating that they're just animals without souls. They clearly have personalities and feelings too but you just look past that. They make bonds with each other so who are you to say that these beautiful, intelligent creatures are limited to making bonds. For someone who acts like you know everything about those discussion, you're making yourself look dumb.
I don't know where you would've gotten that idea from, but I am not degrading orcas, and I have never "insinuated" that they do not have souls. Yes, I agree that they have personalities and feelings. And I never said they can't make bonds, I said they don't. You little lady need to learn to listen and COMPREHEND.
I can easily block you if you don't tone it down on the insults. So I give you a chance to mature up and start acting your age. If you don't, I will block you.
@laceyv1993 2) The " proof " of the harm caused to the animals clearly is shown with the empirical data of pre-mature deaths of Orca on display ( I'm sending you a copy ) Killer Whales don't by nature rip people to shreds... unless they're in captivity. Orca swimming endlessly in circles could easily be viewed as on " autopilot " You've now been 20+ times to SW yet looking over your entire Channel I see no evidence of any interest in Conservation of Killer Whales / Dolphins, ect.
@laceyv1993 1) The mystical " Bond " is clever SW PR... anthropomorphic trite, make no mistake these are still inherently wild animals cast into a Circus environment... your reasoning is hubris. The notion of SW being an organization shows the control SW has over the Punters... this is a huge Corporation that is insidious in their dealings with their critics, the SW Lobbyists have been getting away with murder yet few if any are even aware of the damage they have done ( 1994 MMPA Amendments )
Continued- instead of beating around the bush and repeating your "statistics". You're like a broken record. And you may be '20' but you come off as an immature, repetitive 12 year old. Maybe you should grow up before attacking an ORGANIZATION that you obviously are making false assumptions about. And comments on the other bills to be paid? Japanese whaling companies? You ignore the valid points so ignorantly. Put your energy to good use, Skippy.
@laceyv1993 - LOL. I'm immature? Look at you. You came off here and the first thing you did was insult me straight away. You could have been mature about this, and we would've had a civilised discussion. At least I'm keeping a cool head, you're the one still handing out insults.
And no, SeaWorld is NOT an organisation. They are owned by the Blackstone company. Did you know this company is the same one responsible for releasing a horrid toxin into the water during the Gulf oil spill? Yep...
Oh so now you're making parallels between SeaWorld and circuses? Honestly you have no right to say anything because there is no proof that they harm the animals... Hmmm maybe because they DON'T. and you are such a hypocrite. Calling ME little girl and then trying to say that Im acting superior in the first place? Honestly it's funny that your lane attempts at trying to belittle me are coming from sheer ignorance. You've never gone to SeaWorld I'm guessing, now. Why don't you answer my questions
@laceyv1993 - There IS such a thing as psychological animal abuse. Cetaceans in captivity suffer from lack of space, unable to use their primary sense echolocation, in fact - cetaceans can't do ANYTHING natural in captivity at all. They can't travel, they can't swim very fast like in the wild, they can't hunt. These things are PIVOTAL to their lifestyle. They are fed medication because they have so many stomach ulcers.
And have you ever even gone to a SeaWorld? As a person who has visited there 20+ times and spoken to the trainers in person (and not make assumptions over videos) I find it hard to believe they don't have a bond. The orcas would rip all the trainers to shreds if they really hated it and lacked trust. They trust each other. The way you go about arguing is that these orcas don't have souls and personalities and only act on some sort of autopilot.
You find it hard to believe do you? Well let me tell you darling, there's a BIG difference between believing and knowing. You don't need a bond to get an animal to do your bidding. Elephants for example, are routinely beaten in circuses, and you don't see THEM fighting back.
You are a clear example of a completely uneducated person who anthropomorphises the orcas, thinking it justifies their abusive captivity. Do some research.
Continued- SeaWorld is an amazing ORGANIZATION (yes, organization because they donate a great deal of money to saving and aiding marine wildlife). They have to pay their employees, for food, for supplies, etc. Who cares if their CEO is getting money? They're doing good in the world. And since you like to ignore this, ill ask once more- why don't you waste your energy on protesting against the whaling companies and not an organization that saves whales?
@laceyv1993 - cont'd... SeaWorld is NOT an organisation. Since their "conservation" fund opened, they have donated a mere $7 million dollars. That is virtually nothing. In ONE year, SeaWorld made $1.2 billion dollars, and donated only $1 million to conservation. They donated less than 0.08% of their profits. That is embarrassing and pathetic, and any REAL organisation wouldn't be about money or profits. SeaWorld is a company, nothing more...
First off, I'm pretty sure you're like, twelve. Meanwhile I'm 17. Great comeback, though. Did you learn that last week in your fourth grade class? And while you sit here complaining about America's SeaWorld, have you ever researched (I'm guessing by your accent) Australia's Sea World? They are much different in the fact that USA has huge tanks, while Australia lack in that department.
@laceyv1993 - I'm 20 you idiot, but nice try with the "i'm older therefore superior" move. And I have spent many hours researching SeaWorld in America, because there is a LOT of information associated with them. Meanwhile, if you try to research Australia's Sea World, they have virtually nothing (related to capture dates, locations, births and deaths etc.). American SeaWorld is well documented. And yes, I live in Australia....
Continuous bitchfest at an organization that aims to help conserve and educate people on wildlife conservation, why don't you go after strictly those disgusting and appalling whaling companies in Japan? They are the ones that are truly hurting the wild whales. Besides, your arguments are beginning to sound like a lame conspiracy theory.
@laceyv1993 - An organisation? You're joking, right? SeaWorld is NOT an organisation, they are a company. They have shares, they make profits, and at the end of the day, all they care about is money. In ONE year, SeaWorld donated $1 million to share amongst different groups, and yet they made approx. $1.2 billion dollars. That equates to donating less than 0.08% of their profits. That is disgusting. Get a clue and open your mind, little girl.
You act like it's not expensive to keep the or as safe, healthy, and HAPPY! Sea World is home to many other species of marine life and in order to keep up the money for animal supplies, conservation, and up-keeping the park, they have to charge people. Obviously the animals aren't forced to do things from "food deprivation" because on days when they don't want to do anything, they get their daily amount of food. Listen, I'm all for saving the whales, but instead of aiming your argument and cont
@laceyv1993 - cont'd... yes, it is expensive, most likely because the CEOs and executives like to line their pockets with cetacean blood money. I know that the orcas still get fed despite whether they perform or not, however, notice during a show that the orca's attention is fixated on the bucket. They don't care for performing, and if they had the choice, i'm sure they wouldn't. They do it for food and nothing more. Food is used as leverage to get them to perform.
Also, the whales are obviously doing it for the fish. Just like how a dog will give you its paw for a treat. But the dog, just like the whales, loves its trainer and they DO have strong bonds. You have to work with the whales for a minimum of three years before you can even get in the water. I know, because I am trying to work there as a trainer. Hence, the bond of trust is needed.
@coley4evr - Bond of trust? What about working with elephants in a circus - elephants are large, intelligent and socially complex beings not unlike killer whales. They mourn the loss of their young, travel in family groups and are self-aware, just like orcas. Yet there is no mystical "bond of trust" in a circus when the ringmaster beats her with a bull hook. You don't need trust to get an animal to do your "bidding". The orcas do it for the fish, nothing more.
@FreedomForOrcas I'm not going to post and argue after this... I can see your point, but there is a bond. The trainers love those whales and you can tell the whales actually enjoy to spend time with them too. When there is NO fish reward, such as when they are not doing shows and just laying with the orcas, they stay. Because just like a dog, they like the company. The difference is that in a circus (not anything mdoern day) the animals were abused. The Orcas are not hurt in any way.
@coley4evr - I never said the trainers don't love the orcas, however you have no reason or evidence to show that the orcas enjoy spending time with them. You cannot ask them, and they did not tell you that. However, by observing their behaviour, we can make conclusions as to their state of mind. For example, Tilly killing people? Orcas fighting with each other? Trainers being injured? If there was a bond, and they were happy, none of these things would happen. But they do.
@FreedomForOrcas I actually intern at Seaworld so I do see first hand how much the whales actually like to just relax with the trainers. =] Tilikum does have issues, I agree with you. Dogs attack and kill people every day though. Also, every whale has a different presonality, so some do not all get along. Four people have been killed by Orcas, 3 by one whale... So it is not a wide spread problem. It was a few isolated incidents, and the Orca record compared to other animals is clean.
@coley4evr - How is dying "not a problem"? People died. Would you ride the back of a lion? Would you parade around with a wolf? NO. Why? Because they're dangerous animals, they're wild predators. Orcas are exactly the same. They are predators. Why treat them any different?
Actually, not true. There are a lot of incidents such as injuries, bites, attacks and near misses that have been reported at SeaWorld. Many are also UNreported as well.
@FreedomForOrcas I was simply making the point thatdvery animal that people keep as pets are wild and kill a lot more than Orcas. Sucks for you though, because the vast majority will always want to see these animals up close, so they will always be kept in captivity; which is in an IDEAL environment for unreleasable animals. Why don't you go get angry at every zoo in the world for keeping tigers? And I don't know why you quoted me as saying 'not a problem' for I never said that. So good night.
@coley4evr - quote "So it is not a wide spread problem." That's what you said. I quoted your words.
Yes, I know that some animals are un-releasable, however, the breeding programs should be phased out so no more of them can languish in a tiny tank. Yes, people will always want to see wild animals, doesn't mean they have the right to. Doesn't mean the animals should be exploited for profit. If SeaWorld really cared about marine conservation, they would let people see orcas for free.
@coley4evr Of all of the Orca in the ocean only 0 have killed people. Also you did state that it was not a problem more specifically you stated that it was not a widespread problem. I disagree completely with you. 4 people have died, how many deaths would you require before you could classify this as "widespread". It is also idiotic that you compare domesticated dogs, to an Orca which was captured in the wild & kept in a tank, but thats SW education for you.
@gally50 If you think I stated it wasn't a problem then you are an idiot. You said "you did state that it was not a problem more specifically you stated that it was not a widespread problem." That is INCORREECT. I stated that the issue of whales killing people was not widespread through all parks, as it is two whales only. I NEVER said it was not at all a problem that people have died. Learn to read contextually. Since you anti captivity people are grabbing at straws now, I'm done.
@coley4evr incorrect spelled incorrectly in capital letters lol. o.k. you stated that the issue of whales killing people was not widespread through all parks, wow what an insight. So until someone dies at each park, you think its fine? or are you going to answer my original question which i will alter slightly for you... how many deaths would you require in how many parks before you would classify this as "widespread"? Oh yes, thanks for the insult, i really was not expecting that from you.
@gally50 - Don't worry I agree with you lol. People comparing dogs to orcas are idiots. Clearly SeaWorld hasn't taught them anything about killer whales at all.
@FreedomForOrcas I know, nice videos by the way. Unfortunately coley does not understand the process involved in the domestication of animals, & believes in her ignorance that... " every animal that people keep as pets are wild ", now, I've never seen a pack of wild poodles or chihuahua hunting in the wild, have you lol. Cheers.
@FreedomForOrcas The last thing I would like to say is could you please stop saying that SeaWorld is practically brainwashing people? Two members of my family work there, and theire animals have and always will be well cared for. Thanks.
@coley4evr - Well it's obviously the case. What has SeaWorld taught you about killer whales? I bet if you never researched them properly, you'd think that orcas are domesticated animals that can live in tanks. I bet you wouldn't know how far they traveled, how deep they can dive, how large their family pods are... SeaWorld definitely doesn't teach you that. So I would say, yep, brainwashing.
I'm both Anti and Pro captive. It all depends on the situation. I really like the video, nice work. But we also got to keep in mind that we are not the ones 'behind the scenes." Who knows what's going on! But I'm a very open minded person and I can see where you could be coming from
@MermaidxDesi If you're sitting on the fence you've made a decision... the obvious result is ambivalence and Cognitive dissonance. Justifying, blaming and denying are the only self-remedy.
Your kidding me right They get about 8 different buckets of food a day they fill the buckets up with dozens!!
Have you like never seen the whales totally not respond to the tricks well I have Kayla was not responding and they canceled they show then as you walk past the the tanks you can see every single one of them being feed even Kayla!
Sorry but you REALLY annoy me! With all Anti-Caps they ALL say the SAME
THING! Do you see how you say one thing and then all anti say it to GR you annoy me!
@notdotcalm - Sigh. Another retard who completely misses the point of the video. If you don't learn to use your ears, I will not hesitate to block you. Please, if you don't understand what I am saying, ask kindly and I will explain. Otherwise, shut up.
No I understand perfectly! But when you said they take something away from them that they need and that's food. Well I met they get about 8 buckets of food a day! Yes the hugs and kisses are played out but at least you see that when there is not a show going on you can get a glimpse of the trainers interacting with the orca whales! But yes you are right they are told to do that! You make a good educated point. Anyway sorry If I miss understand.
@notdotcalm - Yes, I know they get fed during the day, regardless of performances! I didn't touch on it properly in the video. However, what I am saying is that during performances and training, food is used as motivation. Otherwise, the animals wouldn't perform.
Watch a video of an orca performing. You'll notice that once it's finished, its attention is completely focused on the bucket, and the fish. They don't perform because they like it, or they want to. They do it for the food.
Well I agree with a lot of the points you're making. But I highly doubt that their killer whales would still be alive if they only got fed from the fish they get during shows. They wouldn't get all the minimum calories they need to eat in a day just to survive from the amount of fish they get in their shows.
Also I don't think it's necessarily that they are STARVING because dogs, birds and other animals are also trained through positive reinforcement and they are NOT starved :>
@DarkToasterMagician - I am not saying they don't get fed at all. Gosh, I know they get fed every other time of the day. However, if you watch a show, you'll see that the orca is obviously focused on the fish, on the bucket. Every time they perform a trick, they swim over with their mouths open. They are purely motivated by food to perform. My point is, that's degrading for a hunter. They've been reduced to scavengers.
It would be a waste of my time to try to change your mind, but at least get your facts straight: there is no food deprivation. If the animals don't earn their fish during the show or training session, they get fed at the end of the day. In addition, they get reinforcements other than fish, like rubdowns, ice, ect. For example, in her book "Lads Before the Wind", Karen Pryor tells about her experience with stenos. Sometimes her animals would keep working just because the task was interesting.
@KaliaRising - Ugh. You are the literally the hundredth person to say that. And you are also the hundredth person to not understand my video. Do you actually use your ears to listen or are they just decorations?
@FreedomForOrcas Haha if I'm the hundredth person to say it, maybe it's true... look you're free to your own opinion, but at least get your facts right. And if I'm the hundredth person to not understand, maybe you're making up what you want to believe.
@KaliaRising - No, it basically means that everyone who comments on this video (besides the people who actually get what i'm saying, regardless of whether they agree with me or not) are brainless idiots.
No. You have completely missed the point of this video. Feel free to stop commenting, unless you actually listen for a second.
@dreadfin That is ridiculous! In the ocean an orca could freely roam, hunt, communicate with other whales and so much more. I am sure they don't prefer cartoons over freedom. If you were taken from your home and held captive in a prison cell for the rest of your life, would you be content if you were given an ipod and a televison? Or would you wish for freedom?
@rozzy2189 Even with limited freedom, I'd be totally content if my life conditions would be not worse than those orcas have in captivity and if my life costed the same high price. How much does your life cost? 1 million? or 10 bucks for a night robber? Don't forget that there is at least 1 billion people on the Earth who are always hungry and live beyond the limit of poverty. They would make a lot of things to live like those Orcas, always full-fed and well-cared.
@FreedomForOrcas I will not be content, if I'd have to struggle for survival and food everyday and my life threatened by millions of natural reasons. You seem to be jobless if you have so much free time to make those videos. Who pays for your bills? Relatives? Social ad? If you'd have your own job, you would know how difficult it is to earn money necessary for your food and living. The same is for wild orcas. But, of course, I agree that people must not touch wild orcas anymore.
@dreadfin - You make it out like being in the wild is the worst life ever. Firstly, everything you said is a complete exaggeration. Orcas do not have to "struggle" for food, and can find food in more than one place. And there aren't "millions" of things that treaten orcas in the wild, just one - humans.
@FreedomForOrcas No, wild orcas have a lot of happy moments in their life and I like them not less than captives. But they DO have to struggle for food. They can't just take it from the grocery and cook at home. They must find food and catch it. And food doesn't want to be catched, it resists, a shark or a whale can mutilate or even kill the orca in defense. Millions of things include natural disasters and diseases that can kill the orca everyday.
@dreadfin - Catching food is just part of their life, and contributes to their highly complex way of living. Have you ever thought that maybe orcas enjoy hunting? And being predators? Why do you think orcas sometimes hunt for food, and then simply play with it? Or just throw it around and discard it? Youtube search a video about orcas attacking a whale and her calf... doesn't look like they're struggling to me.
I'm sorry, but that doesn't count as "millions" of reasons, just 3.
@FreedomForOrcas "Maybe" is a key word. I've seen at least several videos of orcas attacking a whale and it DOES look as a very hard battle and VERY RISKY for orcas. Mostly adult males participate in this attacks, a whale is much larger than orcas and a hit of its tale can be deadly dangerous for the orca. Orca's struggle with a whale can last for hours and often it ends with nothing, orcas just give up and leave the battlefield being hungry. I meant millions of bacteria :)
@dreadfin - The orcas don't necessarily have to attack a huge humpback calf. For example, the video I saw, orcas killed the calf and only ate the tongue. That seems like a huge waste if they were terribly hungry. Not to mention all animals they kill and just throw around and play with, and not even eat.
Also, orcas have immunity to a lot of diseases out in the ocean right now. Their only main threat is humans, with pollution and toxins. However, their numbers in the wild are stable.
Secondly, it would be very unwise of you to assume i'm jobless because in fact i'm not. Just because I have a lot of time on certain days doesn't mean I don't work a lot. And yes, I know how difficult it is to earn money and support yourself - but don't you realise that humans made it difficult for themselves like that? Do you really think society HAD to turn out capitalist?
Besides, I don't even understand the relevance of this point.
@FreedomForOrcas Do you think you'll not have to work at socialism? Or work will be less difficult? I lived in the biggest socialist country of the world - the USSR - until 13 years age and I very well remember all the people worked hardly and had almost nothing for that. I got a master's degree in economy from university and my work is related with that, so don't tell me tales about the subject you don't know. It's time to grow up from kindergarten.
@dreadfin - Here we go with the personal insults. I never made mention of socialism at all, you were the one who brought it up and then proceeded to insult my intelligence on a topic that i'm not even talking about. Do you think I care about how you grew up in the USSR? Not at all. Please, this is about orcas. Not your sorry life.
@FreedomForOrcas You were the first who asked a question about capitalism. What form of economy is better? Most of countries now develop mixed economy trying to combine good elements of capitalism and socialism together. It's surely a better way but it also brings a lot of new social problems. OK, let's stop this discussion. You know my position, it's not clear pro-cap. My position is in the middle between two utmost viewpoints. I feel I'll not be able to change your mind. Let it be so.
@dreadfin - I didn't ask a question about capitalism, and you quite clearly missed my point. The society and way we run things is a life we choose for ourselves, and doesn't necessarily have to be that way. I'm not suggesting that other ways are better, hell no. However, orcas are designed for their life in the ocean. That is their way.
I totally agree with you. Our entertainment is the cost of their freedom. These "trainers" obviously have an understanding of orcas; and with that knowledge, there is an obligation to regonize an orcas needs (social interaction with a pod, sonar, etc.) They are disregarding these facts, and justifying their actions so that they can cash a paycheck. If they really cared about them, they would want the whales to be free...not stuck in a concrete bathtub.
Im sorry but i disagree...one of my cousins was a orca trainer and he and chloe (the orca) had a crazy bond together. If fact when he didnt come in to work somedays, she would start crying and missing him. then once he quit and moved somewhere else the orca died from depression because she missed him so much. Orcas and trainers DO have bonds
@FreedomForOrcas I wasnt quite sure what park (i havent talked to him for like 3 years) but the orca was still a baby..So maybe thats why her name didnt appear on google...? o.O i dont know though..i personally think its wrong to keep these HUGE animals in small aquariums for the rest of there life. Large animals like whales NEED to be in the ocean and not in aquariums...
they HAVE TO have a bound the orca is the top predator in the ocean!!! if you dont believe me search up this user name- frenchorcatrianer he IS a real orca trainer!!!!! why would they not be able to do anything in the water for two whole years? BECAUSE SW CARES!!! why would they work with animals if the hated them? BEACUSE THEY DONT!! leave the bond of orcas and trainers ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@morgan1999123 - Buddy. Easy on the caps lock okay? It doesn't prove your point any better.
There is no scientific, or reasonable proof that shows orcas share a "bond" with trainers - in fact I would say the opposite seeing as trainers are injured and killed by orcas. You don't kill what you "love".
@morgan1999123 - Scared of what? They've been in captivity for years. There's nothing unusual or upsetting that would have frightened them. No, they reacted out of stress from captivity.
The ocean is apparently, according to pro-caps, an even "scarier" place, yet orcas never attack humans in the wild. Why is that?
-cont- Another thing before orcas were put into captivity humans hated and feared orcas, there weren't any protection laws for them and fishermen killed them because they ate all of their fish. And if you look at captive orca statistics, the majority of the orcas were not taken from American waters.
@shamuroxy - Secondly, one of the first orcas ever captured was never intended to be put on display - it was captured to make a life sized model of an orca. I'm sure you've heard of the story Moby Doll. It was meant to be killed, but they discovered it was still alive and so they kept it. The argument you use is just a by-product of the captures, something that was never intended to happen, so using it as an excuse now doesn't work.
@shamuroxy cont'd... finally, I never said the majority of orca were captured from American waters... approx 1200 orcas were captured/killed in japanese waters...
However, the decline in orca numbers in American waters was DIRECTLY caused by captures due to marine parks and greedy men. Supporting those parks now means supporting what they did.
I've recently read "When Elephants Weep" and found these two quotes. Performing may be a chance to work, to display prowess, to feel proud. To jump through a hoop is perhaps better than nothing for them. Condemned to slow death by boredom unless it finds pleasure in performing is a sad commentary on what humans have done to these magnificent predators.
@metridium - Yes, I've often thought that orcas choose to perform only because to do otherwise would cause them extreme boredom. As a pro-cap once said to me, orcas that don't perform are put in the back pools.... yes, how much fun that must be! To float around by themselves in the back pool, ignored by everyone and not doing anything.
food deprivation? really? where is your proof? where did you see that? cuz if you notice in the shows they are reinforced in other ways such as ice or a rub down THE WHALES ARE NOT FORCED TO PERFORM FOR FOOD! they get the same amount of food and care regardless of how well they perform or if they perform at all as i have told you many times before but you refuse to listen and face the facts.. as you said they use POSITIVE reinforcement what you are explaining here is negative punishment
@shamuroxy - Oh, are you talking about the videos of the trainers that are planned and totally not put on? Yeah. I would believe that too. Gullible much?
@FreedomForOrcas um I am not talking about any video.. I am talking about what I have been told and witnessed myself from vsiting SeaWorld.. Again I ask where is your proof that these animals are being forced to perform through food deprivation?
@shamuroxy - Oh, you mean the little set up interactions that people can watch? What about behind closed doors? When no one is watching? How much do you REALLY know?
I'm talking about - why give orcas "encouragement" at all? If they really want to perform, they don't need to be given fish as a treat, they'd do it themselves happily enough.
No. Orcas are kept just that little bit hungry before shows to encourage them to perform. THAT is what i'm talking about.
to the people who say that trainers DO have a bond... why did tilikum kill dawn? why did ky attack his trainer in texas? why did kasatka drag ken peters to the bottom of the pool and break his foot? why are there numerous accounts of orca attacks against trainers? that sure does sound like a great friendship to me, *sarcasm* just think about that
AlexOneill9 1 month ago
You know, you are always talking about how arrogant SeaWorld is, yet here you are. Talking about something you have no solid proof of. You are speaking as if you know the thought process of a killer whale. Who are you to say that they don't have a bond?
webkinzX0X0 2 months ago
@webkinzX0X0 - Do you not think its arrogant to assume there IS a bond? It's a moot point. There is no way to prove, as there is evidence to suggest either way. This video is my OPINION, ie I already know it is not factual. But you can't scientifically prove there is a bond either.
FreedomForOrcas 2 months ago
First, amazing debate skills.
Second, you are correct, pro-captivity all propose same arguments, but I must point out, all anti-captivity people proprose the same arguments too.
Twilighter6317 2 months ago
@FreedomForOrcas cause i love dolphins especially orcas and because there were no other good usernames to go with dolphins or orcas so i chose this one
Freethedolphins1 3 months ago
Ok, i watched some videos and ur right they do it for the fish but that doesn't mean that they don't have a bond with their trainers ok, first of all u don't know if the orcas are happy with their trainers or not,
And second of all u should talk to one of the trainers and they will tell u the truth and if u ever have an expierience with a killer whale then i gurantee u that u will change your mind
Freethedolphins1 3 months ago
@Freethedolphins1 - I actually have spoken to several trainers that worked at SeaWorld.
Also why is your username freethedolphins? :/
FreedomForOrcas 3 months ago
Comment removed
animalluver229 3 months ago
Comment removed
animalluver229 3 months ago
im onlye in to native zoos wildlife parks that hold anmales
howie1945 4 months ago
im anticaptivdy in lase if a land anmals whales dolphins porpise donte duzeve be in jall sary for my bad splling
howie1945 4 months ago
It's all about reward, and that to me is slavery!
Congratulations on the excellent work. You just got a fan in Brazil!
Keep up the good Job! My best regards!
TheBraune 5 months ago
The orcas are not forced to do anything and their food is not withheld. Most of the time they don't get fish as a reward. they get ice, snowballs, a rubdown, or hot water in their mouth. Each whale has a specific diet that is weighed to the ounce. I attended SW career camp& we had to prepare their food for them... i also asked if they kept them hungry b4 a show, and the trainer said she would quit her job if she was ever asked to do that.
SoCalGal96 6 months ago 2
@SoCalGal96 - Yeah because asking SeaWorld themselves is SO trustworthy. Of course SW isn't going to tell you the truth, are you really that blind? And btw, several prominent trainers have quit their jobs BECAUSE they don't agree with the practices that go on at SeaWorld! If trainers themselves are leaving because it's cruel, why won't you believe that?
The other trainers stay because they feel that if they left, no one would care for them. True facts.
FreedomForOrcas 6 months ago
@FreedomForOrcas I know this because i attended SW Career camp. we went to the back dolphin pool where they are all being trained-we put on wet suits to take part in a training session. the dolphin i was with loved ice, so when she did the behavior we gave her ice. when she did it incorrectly we would stay still for 3 sec so th environment was not changed and the consequence was no ice. they call this LRS-Least Reinforcing Scenario. the dolphin next to me was rewarded by being spayed with a hose
SoCalGal96 6 months ago
@SoCalGal96 - You obviously didn't listen to a thing I said. If a company is doing something wrong, do you think they will tell everyone that they are doing something wrong? Um... NO.
That, in all honesty, sounds really demeaning. Do you actually think its right to treat these intelligent, self-aware beings like this? You are showing that might is right, that you can dominate these animals if you want to. Have you ever thought about leaving them in the wild where they BELONG?
FreedomForOrcas 6 months ago
@FreedomForOrcas so what you are saying is that the employees put on this huge act? And they did have a bond with them. One of the dolphins saw a trainer cleaning algae & started bringing algae to her in her mouth, she did not get rewarded for it, she did it for the positive reaction the trainer gave her. she would say"look your cleaning your room, thank you for helping" in a cheerie voice and the dolphin would dive down for more. she did it for almost 30 min until the trainer stoped cleaning.
SoCalGal96 6 months ago
@FreedomForOrcas my point is that the dolphin was enjoying the trainer and was wanting the positive reaction. She was making sounds that sounded excited, and she was making enthusiastic mannerisms. the trainer sat by the pool for ten min and just talked and was playing fetch with the dolphin. the dolphin stayed by her side not because she was forced to, but because she wanted to. i later learned that that trainer spent the most time w? tht dolphin. trainer walked around trhe corner and called th
SoCalGal96 6 months ago
@FreedomForOrcas e dolphins name and the dolphin began jumping around the pool because she heard her voice. it was an amazing thing to watch first hand the BOND they had. it was a true friendship. I wrote you to let you know that you made a mistake by saying they were kept hungry. maybe they did it in the past, but they dont do it now. and you should know im a biased person who agrees animals should not b taken out of their environment, if you dont know me then dont call names..its rude
SoCalGal96 6 months ago
they dont use food deprevation u cant force them to do anything and if they dont want to do it they dont care and they dont always use food they use affection
sealifelover1 6 months ago
@sealifelover1 - Actually, you CAN force a large animal to do something it doesn't want to do. Look at elephants in a circus - they are large, powerful animals, and they are literally beaten to perform. They could easily snap the neck of one of the ringleaders if they wanted (and sometimes, there are cases where they lash out and they do), but most of them don't.
Whilst orcas are not beaten, food is used as leverage to get animals to perform. Do you think they actually WANT to? Hell no!
FreedomForOrcas 6 months ago
Hey, I would love to talk to you about some of the points you made, do you have an aim or yahoo? reading the comments back and fourth on here is confusing -_-
Gabiheckyess 7 months ago
@Gabiheckyess - Haha sure, but I don't have either aim or yahoo sorry!
I saw you joined the forum - would that be alright for now?
FreedomForOrcas 7 months ago
@FreedomForOrcas Yes hahah i typed that before i found the forum. I clearly am not the most computer savy.
Gabiheckyess 7 months ago
@JoeSweets1
sure. performing loops and balancing balls on their nose is natural. IT IS NOT!!
TheEbonyshadow1 7 months ago
Just saying your agruments have flaws and can be proved otherwise...BUT i do agree they needa be in the wild.
JoSweets1 7 months ago
Ok...they do feed their whales the amount they are supposed to be fed they are not withheld from food. AND if you have a dog dont you give it a treat if he preforms a trick right for you? it is the same thing they give them their normal food. when they do tricks right then they give them food so that they know they did a good job. it is just how they learn just like any other animal. they are not being starved. their "tricks" are natural behaviors just put with a signal...you just sound stupid.
JoSweets1 7 months ago
@JoSweets1 - Please refer to my other video orcas ≠ dogs. Or do you really think that orcas are no better than household pets? Wow, some respect YOU have for them.
FreedomForOrcas 7 months ago
@FreedomForOrcas I understand your point dont get me wrong. But are you arguing for all captive animals or just orcas because you cant fight for one but think its ok for all. I agree that all animals should be free in their natural habitat. All i was saying was they arent being torturted and there are reasons to support how they dont hate it. I love orcas I have loved them since I was 3 yrs old.
JoSweets1 7 months ago
@FreedomForOrcas and you make household pets sound like they are lower than dirt. Dogs are very intelligent and so are some reptiles that people own. I am in no means saying hey build a tank lets all have our own whale pets. But Dogs werent always household pets. every animal that can be in your typical home was not always there. I understand your arguments but the way people love to watch them up close and personal like any other animal in the zoo, it wont end ever! sad truth.
JoSweets1 7 months ago
@JoSweets1
Amen on pointing out the same fact with the dog. I say this all the time and people respond "a dog is not a wild animal" but, a dog was once a wild animal. Mankind domesticated dogs, trained them, and developed a bond with them.
Personally, I believe it is no different with this HUGE yet BEAUTIFUL animal.
Twilighter6317 2 months ago
@Twilighter6317 - I think the comparison to dogs and orcas are completely different.
One - domestication of dogs took hundreds of years. Captive orca breeding will most likely end (unless with fresh genes) within 50-100 years.
Two - the reason wolves were domesticated in the first place was because the two species often relied upon each other for food and hunting. Orcas do not share the same relationship with man - they were forcibly captured.
FreedomForOrcas 2 months ago
@FreedomForOrcas the ones born there dont know the difference. and actually orcas do rely some what on what humans do in order for them to survive. and we rely on them in order to survive. I agree that they are beautiful and should be in the wild but i am guilty of enjoying them upclose. They are more intelligent than the common dolphin if they werent at all satisfied even a tad bit they are smart enough to create a way were we would have to let them all go.
JoSweets1 2 months ago
@FreedomForOrcas Plus orcas are social creatures they love interaction...Now with tilly i think he shouldnt of been isolated i think being isolated more than the others hurt his social need and thats wrong and probably part of why he attacked Dawn. I think orcas deserve more credit then they get. They do socialize with people in the wild but hey they hate that right.
JoSweets1 2 months ago
@Twilighter6317 Thanks...and you are right...funny thing people dont get is why do they forget about keiko? he LOVED people...you could put a child in a tank with him and he would be gentle with them. kids in iceland used to do that! he saught out people. Orcas are more intelligent than the common dolphin and dolphins love people what makes people think orcas dont love being touched and loved!! people freedive with them in norway and in new zealand they love checkin people out!
JoSweets1 2 months ago
Food deprivation was out phased a long time ago, and some animals respond difrently to diffrent stimuli, some prefer a rub down or a bucket of water or ice chips. I'm not saying that Sea World is perfect, they have alot they have to fix in my opinion but no two animals are the same and hence no two will respond the same way.
SeaLife357 7 months ago
I just... I don't even know. I'm not looking for an argument, even though it wouldn't be a problem, but I absolutely disagree with every single bit of this.
Thank you @Hanyahgm13 for reading my mind.
TillyKyKayKat 7 months ago
I've seen a show at seaworld where they didn't reward the orcas with fish AT ALL because they were full. They hosed them off and gave them rub downs and they also used some giant stuffed animals but there was no feeding the orcas at all in the show.
Believe13at 7 months ago
@Believe13at - Did the orcas tell the trainers they were full? Great science there.
FreedomForOrcas 7 months ago
There was clearly no research done before the making if this video. I want to be an orca trainer at SeaWorld one day and unlike you, I've done my research. You know the trainers at SeaWorld don't force the animals to do tricks by 'taking away their food.' In fact food is just one of the rewards for the Orcas. They also get toys, snowballs, tounge rubs (Orcas love that), belly rubs, exc. As rewards for good behavior. Fish is just one of many. Next time, get your facts straight.
Hanyahgm13 8 months ago
Comment removed
SoCalGal96 8 months ago
U said u had pets right? My dog& I have a bond, r u going 2 tell me it's fake? What makes marine animals so special? Arent they smarter than dogs?yes! And don't hate on th SW CEOs & managers..what specific things hav they done that makes thm evil ppl? Why would u apply 4 a job at a place that rescues, traines, and is home 2 animals? It doesn't make sence.
SoCalGal96 8 months ago
@SoCalGal96 - Don't compare dogs to orcas, because their situations are completely different. Your arguments have no grounding and no factual basis. I'm tired of speaking to you.
FreedomForOrcas 8 months ago
@FreedomForOrcas Im done to, you are close-minded and i should have realized that from the previous comments. And (not saying this to be rude or mean, its just some friendly advice) when you degrade people and act like you are better it makes them not want to listen to you. If you want to convince people to be non- caps take a different approach (once again i am not saying this in a rude tone).
SoCalGal96 8 months ago
@SoCalGal96 - HAH. How am I close-minded? If I was, I would believe everything that SeaWorld tells me. Because I don't think outside of what I'm told. THAT is what being close-minded is.
Secondly, how am I supposed to reply to "I have a dog and that's like a bond?". DOGS ARE NOT ORCAS and their situations are COMPLETELY different. If you want to watch the video I made about it, please check it out. It's called Orcas ≠ dogs. I can't be bothered replying to it, so I will direct you there.
FreedomForOrcas 8 months ago
@FreedomForOrcas & I'm not giving volunteering credit 2 SW, but they have beach clean ups a lot and their rescue system is great!(you probably havnt seen them actually make a rescue and release though) just a couple weeks ago a sea turtle was released off my coastline.
SoCalGal96 8 months ago
@FreedomForOrcas I think it's kinda amusing how you make these debates into personal arguments. &sorry tht I misunderstood tht u havnt been 2 SW. You refuse to c the good in SW. I live right by SW &always see SW edu stands@ conventions. I live right by SW &always see SW edu stands@ conventions. And I would gladly take a survey cause I do learn.
SoCalGal96 8 months ago
First of all let me say you are strong for fighting for what you believe, but I disagree. First question: have you ever been to sea world? Second: have you had an animal interaction encounter? Third: do you have any pets of your own?... Sea world trainers do not starve the animals. They simply just reward them with extra treats. Like such as when you train a dog, you don't take away it's food until it does a trick, you just give it a treat. The trainers are experts on the animals they work with
SoCalGal96 8 months ago
@SoCalGal96 - 1) Everyone asks that, I don't see how it makes a difference. I don't need to visit a fur farm to know that it is wrong.
2) Yes, I've had animal interaction encounters... in the WILD. It felt good knowing the animals had the CHOICE to come up to me, not being forced to do so.
3) Yes, I've had several pets over the years. I know where you're going to lead this question, so don't bother. It's wrong.
Orcas are predators, not DOGS. They don't need you, or "treats". They need the ocean.
FreedomForOrcas 8 months ago
@FreedomForOrcas If you have never been to a Sea World park, then do not talk about how they dont do anything for conservation (like in some of your other videos). Because you do not know how at every exhibit you go to, they educate you on what you can do to help the animal in its natural habitat. 2) If you had an interaction at sea world, I think you would see things differently. When i did one, i learned that SeaWorld does as much as they can to recreate the animals natural habitat.
SoCalGal96 8 months ago
@SoCalGal96 -Education? Really? If that is the case, where are these billions of people that visit SeaWorld helping the environment and oceans? That's right, they are not. Because SeaWorld hasn't taught them to save the planet, just to go back and spend more money at SW. Otherwise, the oceans wouldn't still be in a declining state, animals still wouldn't be dying at the rate they are now, and maybe, just maybe, the Southern Resident orcas wouldn't still be suffering from the captures in the 60s.
FreedomForOrcas 8 months ago
Secondly, the interaction programs are nothing more than to fool guests into THINKING their environment is okay. Do you really think dolphins gladly let people pat them, and ride their backs in the wild? No. It is a perversion of nature. A captive environment can't satisfy all of a cetaceans needs, and this is shown through their early death rates, their stressed behaviour.
Also I don't need to see a dolphin in captivity to appreciate it. I can appreciate their way of life by leaving them alone.
FreedomForOrcas 8 months ago
@FreedomForOrcas How do you know the dolphins are "stressed"? you haven't even been there. Have you not noticed the rise in community service/ non profits? those "billions of people" are volunteering and thinking of the beautiful animal they saw at SW before they litter. if it weren't for sea world, then who would be educating the public about ocean conservation?(but once again, you haven't ever been their so you dont know how much educating they do).
SoCalGal96 8 months ago
@SoCalGal96 - Then why won't SeaWorld allow people to survey their guests to see what they learned? Because they learned nothing. And you cannot say the "rise in community service/non profits" is due to SeaWorld. That is highly unscientific, and you say it merely to give SW credit. You have no evidence at all for your arguments.
Actually, I have been to A Sea World in Australia, so watch your mouth before you blab nonsense. I learned more about animals watching documentaries than at SW.
FreedomForOrcas 8 months ago
@FreedomForOrcas "[One Ocean] it educates and inspires. Dancing fountains set the stage as you connect with thrilling sea creatures and realize we are all part of one world, one ocean. Your soul is ignited as our worlds are united… and you realize that we all have the power to make a difference in this planet we share." thats from the SW website.
SoCalGal96 8 months ago
@SoCalGal96 - Secondly, I have seen the One Ocean show, and from what I have heard with my own ears, there is NO education on HOW to save the environment. This is FACT. It doesn't tell you HOW, it just says "the planet is precious and needs to be saved!". They don't empower you with the knowledge on how to save the planet.
By the way, quoting the SeaWorld website shows that you do not know how to construct a proper argument without relying on bias sources. Yes, SW is a bias source.
FreedomForOrcas 8 months ago
First off let me just say it's very strong of you to fight for what you believe. But I have to disagree. My first question is
SoCalGal96 8 months ago
While I do think that the trainers love the whales (i can't speak for the whales), I don't think that they have the mystical bond all pro-caps talk about.
DisneyCal95 8 months ago
Orcas and trainers have a bond? Yes. Enough said.
Believe13at 9 months ago
@Believe13at - lol you were SO outraged by my comment that you just HAD to come onto one of my videos and leave a non-factual, unscientific reply. I'm sure your argument would win over so many people. Congrats, dumbass.
FreedomForOrcas 9 months ago
@FreedomForOrcas.. From somebody who works with multiple species of cetaceans you have no clue...
petakills11 9 months ago
@petakills11 - I call bullshit.
FreedomForOrcas 8 months ago
@FreedomForOrcas.. And this speaks from what experience? Enough said.. Keep spreading your bullshit I'm sure you'll find a few idiots to follow you
petakills11 8 months ago
@petakills11 - At least I provide sources for my facts. You're the one spreading unscientific bullshit. Saying that you work with marine mammals? Oh yeah, because people can't make up ANYTHING on the internet. Liar.
FreedomForOrcas 8 months ago
@FreedomForOrcas.. Scientific facts would lead you to being pro-human care.. either you can't read or you deny... I don't have to prove my career status to you, you're frankly not worth my time considering you have no background, exp., or logic...
petakills11 8 months ago
@petakills11 - Your arguments are not very good. So you say that you need to work with a dolphin before you can learn about a dolphin? Do I need to skin a cat alive to know that the fur trade is cruel? Or to participate in bear bile farming to learn about it? According to your twisted logic, I do.
FreedomForOrcas 8 months ago
@FreedomForOrcas.. When you're around these animals every day and actually see what kind of lives they live you'll get it.. until then follow your media b.s. You're mislead, and actually kinda making me laugh
petakills11 8 months ago
@petakills11 - "Media b.s"? You're joking, right? The media LOVES SeaWorld. The media loves those cute little dolphins with their "smiles". No, I don't need to see a dolphin in captivity (but I have) to know that they do not belong in a tank. These animals travel hundreds of miles a day, this is PIVOTAL to their lifestyle. Captivity is wrong, and will never work for them.
FreedomForOrcas 8 months ago
The fact of the matter is that we win! :D
laceyv1993 9 months ago
@laceyv1993 - Whatever girl. You had your chance to defend your position in a mature and responsible way. You failed, and instead all you managed to prove was that you had the maturity of a 5 year old. Even now, that you continue to comment on my videos, proves that you are learning nothing. So enjoy being blocked missy.
FreedomForOrcas 9 months ago
I'm done arguing with someone who won't even hear the opposing side's views. We win, you lose in the real world. The end :) can't wait to go to SeaWorld next March for spring break so I can go watch these abused animals!
laceyv1993 9 months ago
@laceyv1993 - Um, what? Did you even read what I wrote?
"Feel free to repeat your questions WITHOUT childish insults."
I'm all for listening to the opposing sides views. Why do you think comments aren't disabled?
You're either really stupid, or a really bad troll.
FreedomForOrcas 9 months ago
I'm not responding until you've answered all of my questions. And such a valid discussion you host because you BLOCK OUT those who oppose you? Give me a break. You're a close minded person who tries to make themselves look better by making it seem people are defeated when you're the losing one here. News flash- SW isn't ending anytime soon. The BP oil spill was ACCIDENTAL. And SW along with other ORGANIZATIONS sent specialists to help endangered animals from that event.
laceyv1993 9 months ago
@laceyv1993 Um. No. I've let you comment on here, even with all the rude things you've said about me personally.
You need to calm down. Take a breath. Think about what you're writing before you say it. And be civilised. You'll see that you're the one acting like a child. So therefore if you continue to do so, I will treat you like one.
Are you ready to continue the discussion in an appropriate manner? Yes? Good :)
Feel free to repeat your questions WITHOUT childish insults. If you fail, goodbye.
FreedomForOrcas 9 months ago
Oh, and once more- what about the fact that you're degrading the orcas by insinuating that they're just animals without souls. They clearly have personalities and feelings too but you just look past that. They make bonds with each other so who are you to say that these beautiful, intelligent creatures are limited to making bonds. For someone who acts like you know everything about those discussion, you're making yourself look dumb.
laceyv1993 9 months ago
@laceyv1993 - cont'd...
I don't know where you would've gotten that idea from, but I am not degrading orcas, and I have never "insinuated" that they do not have souls. Yes, I agree that they have personalities and feelings. And I never said they can't make bonds, I said they don't. You little lady need to learn to listen and COMPREHEND.
I can easily block you if you don't tone it down on the insults. So I give you a chance to mature up and start acting your age. If you don't, I will block you.
FreedomForOrcas 9 months ago
@laceyv1993 2) The " proof " of the harm caused to the animals clearly is shown with the empirical data of pre-mature deaths of Orca on display ( I'm sending you a copy ) Killer Whales don't by nature rip people to shreds... unless they're in captivity. Orca swimming endlessly in circles could easily be viewed as on " autopilot " You've now been 20+ times to SW yet looking over your entire Channel I see no evidence of any interest in Conservation of Killer Whales / Dolphins, ect.
metridium 9 months ago
@laceyv1993 1) The mystical " Bond " is clever SW PR... anthropomorphic trite, make no mistake these are still inherently wild animals cast into a Circus environment... your reasoning is hubris. The notion of SW being an organization shows the control SW has over the Punters... this is a huge Corporation that is insidious in their dealings with their critics, the SW Lobbyists have been getting away with murder yet few if any are even aware of the damage they have done ( 1994 MMPA Amendments )
metridium 9 months ago
Continued- instead of beating around the bush and repeating your "statistics". You're like a broken record. And you may be '20' but you come off as an immature, repetitive 12 year old. Maybe you should grow up before attacking an ORGANIZATION that you obviously are making false assumptions about. And comments on the other bills to be paid? Japanese whaling companies? You ignore the valid points so ignorantly. Put your energy to good use, Skippy.
laceyv1993 9 months ago
@laceyv1993 - LOL. I'm immature? Look at you. You came off here and the first thing you did was insult me straight away. You could have been mature about this, and we would've had a civilised discussion. At least I'm keeping a cool head, you're the one still handing out insults.
And no, SeaWorld is NOT an organisation. They are owned by the Blackstone company. Did you know this company is the same one responsible for releasing a horrid toxin into the water during the Gulf oil spill? Yep...
FreedomForOrcas 9 months ago
Oh so now you're making parallels between SeaWorld and circuses? Honestly you have no right to say anything because there is no proof that they harm the animals... Hmmm maybe because they DON'T. and you are such a hypocrite. Calling ME little girl and then trying to say that Im acting superior in the first place? Honestly it's funny that your lane attempts at trying to belittle me are coming from sheer ignorance. You've never gone to SeaWorld I'm guessing, now. Why don't you answer my questions
laceyv1993 9 months ago
@laceyv1993 - There IS such a thing as psychological animal abuse. Cetaceans in captivity suffer from lack of space, unable to use their primary sense echolocation, in fact - cetaceans can't do ANYTHING natural in captivity at all. They can't travel, they can't swim very fast like in the wild, they can't hunt. These things are PIVOTAL to their lifestyle. They are fed medication because they have so many stomach ulcers.
And yes, I've been to Sea World, duh...
FreedomForOrcas 9 months ago
And have you ever even gone to a SeaWorld? As a person who has visited there 20+ times and spoken to the trainers in person (and not make assumptions over videos) I find it hard to believe they don't have a bond. The orcas would rip all the trainers to shreds if they really hated it and lacked trust. They trust each other. The way you go about arguing is that these orcas don't have souls and personalities and only act on some sort of autopilot.
laceyv1993 9 months ago
@laceyv1993 - cont'd...
You find it hard to believe do you? Well let me tell you darling, there's a BIG difference between believing and knowing. You don't need a bond to get an animal to do your bidding. Elephants for example, are routinely beaten in circuses, and you don't see THEM fighting back.
You are a clear example of a completely uneducated person who anthropomorphises the orcas, thinking it justifies their abusive captivity. Do some research.
FreedomForOrcas 9 months ago
Continued- SeaWorld is an amazing ORGANIZATION (yes, organization because they donate a great deal of money to saving and aiding marine wildlife). They have to pay their employees, for food, for supplies, etc. Who cares if their CEO is getting money? They're doing good in the world. And since you like to ignore this, ill ask once more- why don't you waste your energy on protesting against the whaling companies and not an organization that saves whales?
laceyv1993 9 months ago
@laceyv1993 - cont'd... SeaWorld is NOT an organisation. Since their "conservation" fund opened, they have donated a mere $7 million dollars. That is virtually nothing. In ONE year, SeaWorld made $1.2 billion dollars, and donated only $1 million to conservation. They donated less than 0.08% of their profits. That is embarrassing and pathetic, and any REAL organisation wouldn't be about money or profits. SeaWorld is a company, nothing more...
FreedomForOrcas 9 months ago
First off, I'm pretty sure you're like, twelve. Meanwhile I'm 17. Great comeback, though. Did you learn that last week in your fourth grade class? And while you sit here complaining about America's SeaWorld, have you ever researched (I'm guessing by your accent) Australia's Sea World? They are much different in the fact that USA has huge tanks, while Australia lack in that department.
laceyv1993 9 months ago
@laceyv1993 - I'm 20 you idiot, but nice try with the "i'm older therefore superior" move. And I have spent many hours researching SeaWorld in America, because there is a LOT of information associated with them. Meanwhile, if you try to research Australia's Sea World, they have virtually nothing (related to capture dates, locations, births and deaths etc.). American SeaWorld is well documented. And yes, I live in Australia....
FreedomForOrcas 9 months ago
Continuous bitchfest at an organization that aims to help conserve and educate people on wildlife conservation, why don't you go after strictly those disgusting and appalling whaling companies in Japan? They are the ones that are truly hurting the wild whales. Besides, your arguments are beginning to sound like a lame conspiracy theory.
laceyv1993 9 months ago
@laceyv1993 - An organisation? You're joking, right? SeaWorld is NOT an organisation, they are a company. They have shares, they make profits, and at the end of the day, all they care about is money. In ONE year, SeaWorld donated $1 million to share amongst different groups, and yet they made approx. $1.2 billion dollars. That equates to donating less than 0.08% of their profits. That is disgusting. Get a clue and open your mind, little girl.
FreedomForOrcas 9 months ago
You act like it's not expensive to keep the or as safe, healthy, and HAPPY! Sea World is home to many other species of marine life and in order to keep up the money for animal supplies, conservation, and up-keeping the park, they have to charge people. Obviously the animals aren't forced to do things from "food deprivation" because on days when they don't want to do anything, they get their daily amount of food. Listen, I'm all for saving the whales, but instead of aiming your argument and cont
laceyv1993 9 months ago
@laceyv1993 - cont'd... yes, it is expensive, most likely because the CEOs and executives like to line their pockets with cetacean blood money. I know that the orcas still get fed despite whether they perform or not, however, notice during a show that the orca's attention is fixated on the bucket. They don't care for performing, and if they had the choice, i'm sure they wouldn't. They do it for food and nothing more. Food is used as leverage to get them to perform.
FreedomForOrcas 9 months ago
OF COURSE THEY HAVE A BOND. IF THEY DID NOT WANT TO DO WHAT THE TRAINERS WANTED TO DO THE WOULDN'T DO IT!!!!!!!!
iloveheehaw 9 months ago
@iloveheehaw - lol.
FreedomForOrcas 9 months ago
lol whatever. While you guys keep protesting the keeping of whales I'll wave to you guys while I'm riding a dolphin. later.
coley4evr 9 months ago
Also, the whales are obviously doing it for the fish. Just like how a dog will give you its paw for a treat. But the dog, just like the whales, loves its trainer and they DO have strong bonds. You have to work with the whales for a minimum of three years before you can even get in the water. I know, because I am trying to work there as a trainer. Hence, the bond of trust is needed.
coley4evr 9 months ago
@coley4evr - Bond of trust? What about working with elephants in a circus - elephants are large, intelligent and socially complex beings not unlike killer whales. They mourn the loss of their young, travel in family groups and are self-aware, just like orcas. Yet there is no mystical "bond of trust" in a circus when the ringmaster beats her with a bull hook. You don't need trust to get an animal to do your "bidding". The orcas do it for the fish, nothing more.
FreedomForOrcas 9 months ago
@FreedomForOrcas I'm not going to post and argue after this... I can see your point, but there is a bond. The trainers love those whales and you can tell the whales actually enjoy to spend time with them too. When there is NO fish reward, such as when they are not doing shows and just laying with the orcas, they stay. Because just like a dog, they like the company. The difference is that in a circus (not anything mdoern day) the animals were abused. The Orcas are not hurt in any way.
coley4evr 9 months ago
@coley4evr - I never said the trainers don't love the orcas, however you have no reason or evidence to show that the orcas enjoy spending time with them. You cannot ask them, and they did not tell you that. However, by observing their behaviour, we can make conclusions as to their state of mind. For example, Tilly killing people? Orcas fighting with each other? Trainers being injured? If there was a bond, and they were happy, none of these things would happen. But they do.
FreedomForOrcas 9 months ago
@FreedomForOrcas I actually intern at Seaworld so I do see first hand how much the whales actually like to just relax with the trainers. =] Tilikum does have issues, I agree with you. Dogs attack and kill people every day though. Also, every whale has a different presonality, so some do not all get along. Four people have been killed by Orcas, 3 by one whale... So it is not a wide spread problem. It was a few isolated incidents, and the Orca record compared to other animals is clean.
coley4evr 9 months ago
@coley4evr - How is dying "not a problem"? People died. Would you ride the back of a lion? Would you parade around with a wolf? NO. Why? Because they're dangerous animals, they're wild predators. Orcas are exactly the same. They are predators. Why treat them any different?
Actually, not true. There are a lot of incidents such as injuries, bites, attacks and near misses that have been reported at SeaWorld. Many are also UNreported as well.
FreedomForOrcas 9 months ago
@FreedomForOrcas I was simply making the point thatdvery animal that people keep as pets are wild and kill a lot more than Orcas. Sucks for you though, because the vast majority will always want to see these animals up close, so they will always be kept in captivity; which is in an IDEAL environment for unreleasable animals. Why don't you go get angry at every zoo in the world for keeping tigers? And I don't know why you quoted me as saying 'not a problem' for I never said that. So good night.
coley4evr 9 months ago
@coley4evr - quote "So it is not a wide spread problem." That's what you said. I quoted your words.
Yes, I know that some animals are un-releasable, however, the breeding programs should be phased out so no more of them can languish in a tiny tank. Yes, people will always want to see wild animals, doesn't mean they have the right to. Doesn't mean the animals should be exploited for profit. If SeaWorld really cared about marine conservation, they would let people see orcas for free.
FreedomForOrcas 9 months ago
@coley4evr I said it wasn't a wide spread problem, as in of all the orcas in captivity, only 2 have killed people. I NEVER said it was NOT a problem.
coley4evr 9 months ago
@coley4evr Of all of the Orca in the ocean only 0 have killed people. Also you did state that it was not a problem more specifically you stated that it was not a widespread problem. I disagree completely with you. 4 people have died, how many deaths would you require before you could classify this as "widespread". It is also idiotic that you compare domesticated dogs, to an Orca which was captured in the wild & kept in a tank, but thats SW education for you.
gally50 9 months ago 2
@gally50 If you think I stated it wasn't a problem then you are an idiot. You said "you did state that it was not a problem more specifically you stated that it was not a widespread problem." That is INCORREECT. I stated that the issue of whales killing people was not widespread through all parks, as it is two whales only. I NEVER said it was not at all a problem that people have died. Learn to read contextually. Since you anti captivity people are grabbing at straws now, I'm done.
coley4evr 9 months ago
@coley4evr incorrect spelled incorrectly in capital letters lol. o.k. you stated that the issue of whales killing people was not widespread through all parks, wow what an insight. So until someone dies at each park, you think its fine? or are you going to answer my original question which i will alter slightly for you... how many deaths would you require in how many parks before you would classify this as "widespread"? Oh yes, thanks for the insult, i really was not expecting that from you.
gally50 9 months ago
@gally50 - Don't worry I agree with you lol. People comparing dogs to orcas are idiots. Clearly SeaWorld hasn't taught them anything about killer whales at all.
FreedomForOrcas 9 months ago
@FreedomForOrcas I know, nice videos by the way. Unfortunately coley does not understand the process involved in the domestication of animals, & believes in her ignorance that... " every animal that people keep as pets are wild ", now, I've never seen a pack of wild poodles or chihuahua hunting in the wild, have you lol. Cheers.
gally50 9 months ago
@FreedomForOrcas The last thing I would like to say is could you please stop saying that SeaWorld is practically brainwashing people? Two members of my family work there, and theire animals have and always will be well cared for. Thanks.
coley4evr 9 months ago
@coley4evr - Well it's obviously the case. What has SeaWorld taught you about killer whales? I bet if you never researched them properly, you'd think that orcas are domesticated animals that can live in tanks. I bet you wouldn't know how far they traveled, how deep they can dive, how large their family pods are... SeaWorld definitely doesn't teach you that. So I would say, yep, brainwashing.
FreedomForOrcas 9 months ago
Comment removed
coley4evr 9 months ago
I'm both Anti and Pro captive. It all depends on the situation. I really like the video, nice work. But we also got to keep in mind that we are not the ones 'behind the scenes." Who knows what's going on! But I'm a very open minded person and I can see where you could be coming from
MermaidxDesi 10 months ago
@MermaidxDesi If you're sitting on the fence you've made a decision... the obvious result is ambivalence and Cognitive dissonance. Justifying, blaming and denying are the only self-remedy.
metridium 9 months ago
Your kidding me right They get about 8 different buckets of food a day they fill the buckets up with dozens!!
Have you like never seen the whales totally not respond to the tricks well I have Kayla was not responding and they canceled they show then as you walk past the the tanks you can see every single one of them being feed even Kayla!
Sorry but you REALLY annoy me! With all Anti-Caps they ALL say the SAME
THING! Do you see how you say one thing and then all anti say it to GR you annoy me!
notdotcalm 1 year ago
@notdotcalm - Sigh. Another retard who completely misses the point of the video. If you don't learn to use your ears, I will not hesitate to block you. Please, if you don't understand what I am saying, ask kindly and I will explain. Otherwise, shut up.
FreedomForOrcas 1 year ago
@FreedomForOrcas
No I understand perfectly! But when you said they take something away from them that they need and that's food. Well I met they get about 8 buckets of food a day! Yes the hugs and kisses are played out but at least you see that when there is not a show going on you can get a glimpse of the trainers interacting with the orca whales! But yes you are right they are told to do that! You make a good educated point. Anyway sorry If I miss understand.
Faith
notdotcalm 1 year ago
@notdotcalm - Yes, I know they get fed during the day, regardless of performances! I didn't touch on it properly in the video. However, what I am saying is that during performances and training, food is used as motivation. Otherwise, the animals wouldn't perform.
Watch a video of an orca performing. You'll notice that once it's finished, its attention is completely focused on the bucket, and the fish. They don't perform because they like it, or they want to. They do it for the food.
FreedomForOrcas 1 year ago
@FreedomForOrcas
Okay thank you.
notdotcalm 1 year ago
Comment removed
coley4evr 9 months ago
Well I agree with a lot of the points you're making. But I highly doubt that their killer whales would still be alive if they only got fed from the fish they get during shows. They wouldn't get all the minimum calories they need to eat in a day just to survive from the amount of fish they get in their shows.
Also I don't think it's necessarily that they are STARVING because dogs, birds and other animals are also trained through positive reinforcement and they are NOT starved :>
DarkToasterMagician 1 year ago
@DarkToasterMagician - I am not saying they don't get fed at all. Gosh, I know they get fed every other time of the day. However, if you watch a show, you'll see that the orca is obviously focused on the fish, on the bucket. Every time they perform a trick, they swim over with their mouths open. They are purely motivated by food to perform. My point is, that's degrading for a hunter. They've been reduced to scavengers.
FreedomForOrcas 1 year ago
It would be a waste of my time to try to change your mind, but at least get your facts straight: there is no food deprivation. If the animals don't earn their fish during the show or training session, they get fed at the end of the day. In addition, they get reinforcements other than fish, like rubdowns, ice, ect. For example, in her book "Lads Before the Wind", Karen Pryor tells about her experience with stenos. Sometimes her animals would keep working just because the task was interesting.
KaliaRising 1 year ago
@KaliaRising - Ugh. You are the literally the hundredth person to say that. And you are also the hundredth person to not understand my video. Do you actually use your ears to listen or are they just decorations?
FreedomForOrcas 1 year ago
@FreedomForOrcas Haha if I'm the hundredth person to say it, maybe it's true... look you're free to your own opinion, but at least get your facts right. And if I'm the hundredth person to not understand, maybe you're making up what you want to believe.
KaliaRising 1 year ago
@KaliaRising - No, it basically means that everyone who comments on this video (besides the people who actually get what i'm saying, regardless of whether they agree with me or not) are brainless idiots.
No. You have completely missed the point of this video. Feel free to stop commenting, unless you actually listen for a second.
FreedomForOrcas 1 year ago
Comment removed
KaliaRising 1 year ago
@dreadfin That is ridiculous! In the ocean an orca could freely roam, hunt, communicate with other whales and so much more. I am sure they don't prefer cartoons over freedom. If you were taken from your home and held captive in a prison cell for the rest of your life, would you be content if you were given an ipod and a televison? Or would you wish for freedom?
rozzy2189 1 year ago
@rozzy2189 Even with limited freedom, I'd be totally content if my life conditions would be not worse than those orcas have in captivity and if my life costed the same high price. How much does your life cost? 1 million? or 10 bucks for a night robber? Don't forget that there is at least 1 billion people on the Earth who are always hungry and live beyond the limit of poverty. They would make a lot of things to live like those Orcas, always full-fed and well-cared.
dreadfin 1 year ago
@dreadfin - But the fact is, orcas were content with their life before humans interfered with it. Just leave them alone and stop meddling with them!
FreedomForOrcas 1 year ago
@FreedomForOrcas I will not be content, if I'd have to struggle for survival and food everyday and my life threatened by millions of natural reasons. You seem to be jobless if you have so much free time to make those videos. Who pays for your bills? Relatives? Social ad? If you'd have your own job, you would know how difficult it is to earn money necessary for your food and living. The same is for wild orcas. But, of course, I agree that people must not touch wild orcas anymore.
dreadfin 1 year ago
@dreadfin - You make it out like being in the wild is the worst life ever. Firstly, everything you said is a complete exaggeration. Orcas do not have to "struggle" for food, and can find food in more than one place. And there aren't "millions" of things that treaten orcas in the wild, just one - humans.
FreedomForOrcas 1 year ago
@FreedomForOrcas No, wild orcas have a lot of happy moments in their life and I like them not less than captives. But they DO have to struggle for food. They can't just take it from the grocery and cook at home. They must find food and catch it. And food doesn't want to be catched, it resists, a shark or a whale can mutilate or even kill the orca in defense. Millions of things include natural disasters and diseases that can kill the orca everyday.
dreadfin 1 year ago
@dreadfin - Catching food is just part of their life, and contributes to their highly complex way of living. Have you ever thought that maybe orcas enjoy hunting? And being predators? Why do you think orcas sometimes hunt for food, and then simply play with it? Or just throw it around and discard it? Youtube search a video about orcas attacking a whale and her calf... doesn't look like they're struggling to me.
I'm sorry, but that doesn't count as "millions" of reasons, just 3.
FreedomForOrcas 1 year ago
@FreedomForOrcas "Maybe" is a key word. I've seen at least several videos of orcas attacking a whale and it DOES look as a very hard battle and VERY RISKY for orcas. Mostly adult males participate in this attacks, a whale is much larger than orcas and a hit of its tale can be deadly dangerous for the orca. Orca's struggle with a whale can last for hours and often it ends with nothing, orcas just give up and leave the battlefield being hungry. I meant millions of bacteria :)
dreadfin 1 year ago
@dreadfin - The orcas don't necessarily have to attack a huge humpback calf. For example, the video I saw, orcas killed the calf and only ate the tongue. That seems like a huge waste if they were terribly hungry. Not to mention all animals they kill and just throw around and play with, and not even eat.
Also, orcas have immunity to a lot of diseases out in the ocean right now. Their only main threat is humans, with pollution and toxins. However, their numbers in the wild are stable.
FreedomForOrcas 1 year ago
@dreadfin - Cont'd..
Secondly, it would be very unwise of you to assume i'm jobless because in fact i'm not. Just because I have a lot of time on certain days doesn't mean I don't work a lot. And yes, I know how difficult it is to earn money and support yourself - but don't you realise that humans made it difficult for themselves like that? Do you really think society HAD to turn out capitalist?
Besides, I don't even understand the relevance of this point.
FreedomForOrcas 1 year ago
@FreedomForOrcas Do you think you'll not have to work at socialism? Or work will be less difficult? I lived in the biggest socialist country of the world - the USSR - until 13 years age and I very well remember all the people worked hardly and had almost nothing for that. I got a master's degree in economy from university and my work is related with that, so don't tell me tales about the subject you don't know. It's time to grow up from kindergarten.
dreadfin 1 year ago
@dreadfin - Here we go with the personal insults. I never made mention of socialism at all, you were the one who brought it up and then proceeded to insult my intelligence on a topic that i'm not even talking about. Do you think I care about how you grew up in the USSR? Not at all. Please, this is about orcas. Not your sorry life.
FreedomForOrcas 1 year ago
@FreedomForOrcas You were the first who asked a question about capitalism. What form of economy is better? Most of countries now develop mixed economy trying to combine good elements of capitalism and socialism together. It's surely a better way but it also brings a lot of new social problems. OK, let's stop this discussion. You know my position, it's not clear pro-cap. My position is in the middle between two utmost viewpoints. I feel I'll not be able to change your mind. Let it be so.
dreadfin 1 year ago
@dreadfin - I didn't ask a question about capitalism, and you quite clearly missed my point. The society and way we run things is a life we choose for ourselves, and doesn't necessarily have to be that way. I'm not suggesting that other ways are better, hell no. However, orcas are designed for their life in the ocean. That is their way.
FreedomForOrcas 1 year ago
I totally agree with you. Our entertainment is the cost of their freedom. These "trainers" obviously have an understanding of orcas; and with that knowledge, there is an obligation to regonize an orcas needs (social interaction with a pod, sonar, etc.) They are disregarding these facts, and justifying their actions so that they can cash a paycheck. If they really cared about them, they would want the whales to be free...not stuck in a concrete bathtub.
rozzy2189 1 year ago
Im sorry but i disagree...one of my cousins was a orca trainer and he and chloe (the orca) had a crazy bond together. If fact when he didnt come in to work somedays, she would start crying and missing him. then once he quit and moved somewhere else the orca died from depression because she missed him so much. Orcas and trainers DO have bonds
kittyzpwn303 1 year ago
@kittyzpwn303 - Oh yeah, what park did he work for? And I googled your "orca", didn't find any results.
FreedomForOrcas 1 year ago
@FreedomForOrcas I wasnt quite sure what park (i havent talked to him for like 3 years) but the orca was still a baby..So maybe thats why her name didnt appear on google...? o.O i dont know though..i personally think its wrong to keep these HUGE animals in small aquariums for the rest of there life. Large animals like whales NEED to be in the ocean and not in aquariums...
kittyzpwn303 1 year ago
@kittyzpwn303 - Sorry but I googled her and found nothing. I would appreciate some more credible information, if you can.
FreedomForOrcas 1 year ago
they HAVE TO have a bound the orca is the top predator in the ocean!!! if you dont believe me search up this user name- frenchorcatrianer he IS a real orca trainer!!!!! why would they not be able to do anything in the water for two whole years? BECAUSE SW CARES!!! why would they work with animals if the hated them? BEACUSE THEY DONT!! leave the bond of orcas and trainers ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
morgan1999123 1 year ago 2
@morgan1999123 - Buddy. Easy on the caps lock okay? It doesn't prove your point any better.
There is no scientific, or reasonable proof that shows orcas share a "bond" with trainers - in fact I would say the opposite seeing as trainers are injured and killed by orcas. You don't kill what you "love".
FreedomForOrcas 1 year ago
@FreedomForOrcas hey ever think that they got scared and paniced!!
morgan1999123 1 year ago
@morgan1999123 - Scared of what? They've been in captivity for years. There's nothing unusual or upsetting that would have frightened them. No, they reacted out of stress from captivity.
The ocean is apparently, according to pro-caps, an even "scarier" place, yet orcas never attack humans in the wild. Why is that?
FreedomForOrcas 1 year ago
@FreedomForOrcas Also she was a rescue..they found her in the ocean with no mother (i believe her mother was killed possibly...)
kittyzpwn303 1 year ago
-cont- Another thing before orcas were put into captivity humans hated and feared orcas, there weren't any protection laws for them and fishermen killed them because they ate all of their fish. And if you look at captive orca statistics, the majority of the orcas were not taken from American waters.
shamuroxy 1 year ago
@shamuroxy - Secondly, one of the first orcas ever captured was never intended to be put on display - it was captured to make a life sized model of an orca. I'm sure you've heard of the story Moby Doll. It was meant to be killed, but they discovered it was still alive and so they kept it. The argument you use is just a by-product of the captures, something that was never intended to happen, so using it as an excuse now doesn't work.
FreedomForOrcas 1 year ago
@shamuroxy cont'd... finally, I never said the majority of orca were captured from American waters... approx 1200 orcas were captured/killed in japanese waters...
However, the decline in orca numbers in American waters was DIRECTLY caused by captures due to marine parks and greedy men. Supporting those parks now means supporting what they did.
FreedomForOrcas 1 year ago
I've recently read "When Elephants Weep" and found these two quotes. Performing may be a chance to work, to display prowess, to feel proud. To jump through a hoop is perhaps better than nothing for them. Condemned to slow death by boredom unless it finds pleasure in performing is a sad commentary on what humans have done to these magnificent predators.
metridium 1 year ago
@metridium - Yes, I've often thought that orcas choose to perform only because to do otherwise would cause them extreme boredom. As a pro-cap once said to me, orcas that don't perform are put in the back pools.... yes, how much fun that must be! To float around by themselves in the back pool, ignored by everyone and not doing anything.
No wonder they choose to perform.
FreedomForOrcas 1 year ago
food deprivation? really? where is your proof? where did you see that? cuz if you notice in the shows they are reinforced in other ways such as ice or a rub down THE WHALES ARE NOT FORCED TO PERFORM FOR FOOD! they get the same amount of food and care regardless of how well they perform or if they perform at all as i have told you many times before but you refuse to listen and face the facts.. as you said they use POSITIVE reinforcement what you are explaining here is negative punishment
shamuroxy 1 year ago
@shamuroxy - Oh, are you talking about the videos of the trainers that are planned and totally not put on? Yeah. I would believe that too. Gullible much?
FreedomForOrcas 1 year ago
@FreedomForOrcas um I am not talking about any video.. I am talking about what I have been told and witnessed myself from vsiting SeaWorld.. Again I ask where is your proof that these animals are being forced to perform through food deprivation?
shamuroxy 1 year ago
@shamuroxy - Oh, you mean the little set up interactions that people can watch? What about behind closed doors? When no one is watching? How much do you REALLY know?
I'm talking about - why give orcas "encouragement" at all? If they really want to perform, they don't need to be given fish as a treat, they'd do it themselves happily enough.
No. Orcas are kept just that little bit hungry before shows to encourage them to perform. THAT is what i'm talking about.
FreedomForOrcas 1 year ago