Meeting #3 Part 6/9 The Beast Of Revelation 13

[jrblack83]

There is NO EVIDENCE AT ALL that Constantine united Christianity with paganism. Constantine DID summon the First Council of Nicaea, but THERE ARE NO PAGAN DOCTRINES OR PRACTICES established at the First Council of Nicaea! This whole notion that Constantine blended paganism with Christianity is TOTAL NONSENSE!

[nodoubt257]

Read The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop to start with and you will find a lot of evidence.

[bozie09]

The roman catholic church did. Not constantine. want prove?

[jrblack83]

Sure "PROVE" it.

I've heard all this "proof" before, and its all BS.

[bozie09]

"Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday [in the original: "sabbato" shall not be idle on the Sabbath], but shall work on that day; but the Lord's day they shall especially honour, and as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If, however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out ["anathema,"--excommunicated] from Christ." Council of Laodicea, c. A.D. 337, Canon 29, quoted in C.J. Hefele, "A History of the Councils of the Church," Vol. 2, p. 316.

[jrblack83]

This guy is full of crap.

[bozie09]

"It has often been charged... that Catholicism is overlaid with many pagan incrustations. Catholicism is ready to accept that accusation - and even to make it her boast... the great god Pan is not really dead, he is baptized" -The Story of Catholicism p 37

The RCC admits it pagan practices.

[jrblack83]

1) "The Story of Catholicism" does not speak for the Catholic Church.

2) Pagan "incrustations" have effected and influenced Catholic (and all Christian) social aspects... But not beliefs, practices, or doctrine.

[jrblack83]

3) "Incrustation" in no way refers to a thorough blending or mixing of practices and beliefs. Think of Catholicism as a ship; pagan influences are just the barnacles that have collected on it's hull, The ship has never changed.

4) "... the great god Pan is not really dead, he is baptized" This is just a literary device to illustrate that pagan peoples adopted Christianity, but still retained their cultural heratige.

WOW, GREAT JOB QUOTE MINING!

[bozie09]

The pagans did not adopt christianity. The rcc adopted paganism. Where have you seen a bible believing PAGAN? Shrines, relics, repeated prayers, idols and bowing to them, prayer beads, etc are all from paganism.

[bozie09]

Cardinal Newman admits in his book that; the "The use of temples, saints, incense, lamps, and candles; holy water; asylums; holydays and seasons, use of calendars, processions, sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure, the ring in marriage, turning to the East, perhaps the ecclesiastical chant, and the Kyrie Eleison [Note 17], are all of pagan origin, and sanctified by their adoption into the Church. {374}" -An Essay on the The Development of the Christian Doctrine John Henry "Cardinal Newman" p.359

[jrblack83]

1) Temples - From Jewish practice

2) Saints - From Revelation

3) Incense - From Jewish practice / in revelation

4) Lamps and Candles - From Jewish practice

5) Vestments - From Jewish practice

6) Processions - What does THAT have to do with paganism?

7) Tonsure - Paul did it in ACTS!

8) The Ring in Marriage - All Christians do this, SO WHAT!

[jrblack83]

9) Chant - You can't SING in worship of God?

10) Holy Water - From Jewish practice

11) Kyrie Eleison - "Lord have mercy... Christ have Mercy" Yeah REAL pagan.

12) Holydays and seasons, use of calendars... - BIG DEAL

[bozie09]

Bowing to a statutes is pagan. Do you want to see catholics praying to statutes? Do you want to see them kneeling before it. Prayer beads is pagan and so is repeatedly saying a prayer to a statute in a shrine.

[jrblack83]

Catholics do not PRAY TO statues. They sometimes pray in the presence of statues because it helps the reflect on the goodness of God and His faithful servants the Saints. Bowing to a statue is a sign of respect to the Saint that the statue represents, not the statue itself. As for the Rosary, the focus is on the life of Jesus through the eyes of His mother - how is that pagan? And there is nothing wrong with repeadedly saying a prayer, as long as your heart is fully engaged.

[bozie09]

Mttw 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Bowing is a sign of worship according to the bible.

Romans 11:4

But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

We are not to bow to ANY IMAGE AT ALL. This is what GOD says even today.

[jrblack83]

Why don't you put Matthew 6:7 and Romans 11:4 in CONTEXT.

In Matthew 6 Jesus is condemning the practice of acting in VAIN (key word) while doing good deeds or saying prayers in a repetative fashion just to gain admiration.

In Romans 11:4 Paul is refering to 1 Kings 19:18 which is clearly stating that there are 7,000 men who haven't worshiped Baal. This is refering to the actual worship of a false god not its image.