Martin Amis & Jon Snow/Part 2

[michaelbalkow]

The point Terry Eagleton was attempting to make is thus: Religion, is a complex imbrolio that involves reverence and respect. Nine eleven was a catalyst that prompted a knee jerk reaction that would always backfire in the face of faith. Amis junior is far to strident, and Eagleton is not much better. To hate something you must have a good understanding of what you hate.

[misterdeadly1]

To oversimplify, I believe Amis is of the opinion that while Judaism and Christianity are deeply flawed, and in many ways malevolent forces in the world, Islam is demonstrably worse. Cultural relativists despise this, since it necessarily involves weighing evidence and making qualitative and quantitative assessments--that he then reaches a conclusion, moreover an UNCOMFORTABLE conclusion, is simply intolerable to the relativists.

[Rnewmanguy]

the thing that everyone defending amis is missing is that he's insulting islam too much compared to how much he's insulting christianity and judaism. he says islam is where the fanatic anti-semitism is (which isn't true, i know lots of secular anti-semites) and doesn't mention that in judaism or christianity there's a lot of islamophobia.

[misterdeadly1]

@Rnewmanguy That you know lots of anti-Semites, whether they be religious or secular, speaks volumes about you, your character, and the company you keep. Your self-righteousness about Islamophobia is hypocritical--if you were sincere and fair-minded about tolerance you would not be associating with so many bigots.

[Rnewmanguy]

@misterdeadly1 haha no they're just people at my university i can't really avoid them unless i leave university. i argue with them, of course, about their bigotry. do you have any points more valid than that one?

[terratrema]

Mmmn. Jon Snow didn't really do such a good job here. Because there's little to say and this is a non-issue. Does Martin Amis really have to apologise for admitting that once he found out about a Muslim fundamentalist plot to destroy 10 airliners in-flight, killing thousands and that, he felt a little angry that the British Muslim community isn't doing enough to keep these nutcases in check?

It was an urge that passed. Amis a human being. Media people are not.

[justnotcricket]

"...Eagleton, with disgraceful sloppyness..."

Why is that what stands out for me? Amis hu-Akbar.

[powereddrive]

This is completely informal but, Martin Amis, sometimes I feel the urge to ask of all writers who leach a living off G-d fearing British people by teaching the youth at university to strip naked and parade yourself through the street with a sign on you saying: "I am not worthy of those who pay me"

[lovemarr]

Ummm,,so Amis RATHER CONVINGINCLY won that one lol

[nickthelight]

@2m50s. "....Islamic people feel because of the way we treat them"

Who is this 'we' and what is this 'way we treat them'? Muslims, like any other denomination, are free to practice their religion. They are not suppressed, silence of prohibited in any way. In fact they are even permitted to protest at the march of returning soldiers.

[axl170]

Poor Mart. If only he had talked to his buddy the Hitch first, and prepared himself for it; he has no option but be honest and "come out" as being against all religious delusion.

He is a critic of Islam, and he should say so. He cannot be the rationalist and skepticist that he is unless he is willing to criticize religious tripe. I could sense here that he was still squirming in terror at the thought of being called a "critic of Islam" on British TV, and his defense sounded weak and anemic.

[ybot1983]

Thankfully weve got Amis to point out the obvious

[czkolyk]

SPOT ON-those who get shrill with NAZI and FASCIST refuse to see this. Maybe like politicians they know how close we are to civil unrest on this- ISLAM does not encourage reason and logic-it encourages hysteria and violent psychosis!

[lucas198]

jon snow just does not get it here at all

[mmyyppaarrttyy]

@lucas198 he's paid to challenge martin, not to agree with him.

[gtalcstories]

Cannel 4 news is the most biased news programme in the free world. It told an iranian opposition leader to shut up and stop accusing ppl when he pointed out that the Guardianistas (incl c 4 news) were supporting the iranian theocracy for years. S Smith their US commentator attacked the gop for nominating a person to run against him saying they shud let him have a free run because hes that amazing. Here Snow is constantly trying to excite his base and get Amis to say something "anti islamic"

[TissuePrices]

this islamaphobic biggot is having a hard time justifying his comments, what a prick

[andrewshere]

ThunderDog97, with respect - Regarding 'hand to head contact' meaning hiding something or telling a falsehood: that's something to be applied to hiding a fact or an action taken (as your own words state). Amis here is stating an opinion. Your observation and implication here is therefore misapplied. The 'Nuff said' is meaningless and redundant if, as you later say, you don't know if he was lying or not. And lying about an opinion here doesn't make sense.

[TheBeastlyBeatitude]

What he sais is basically true yet impracticle, and he knows it. He likes to stir up the pot and hear himself talk. his resortment to thinly veiled racism is a symptom of his being another writer who in their madness clings to outrageous conservitism. Ezra Pound went down that path and it ended him up in St. Elizabeth's for quite a long spell. still can't really disagree with him though.

[ThunderDog97]

Hand to head contact is an idicator of somone hiding something or telling a falsehood.

Police know this and look for hand to head indication when checking people out.

--

Nuff said.

[bootymanager]

Yeah, you know that's bullshit. That's what the police 'experts' tell you. Same with that 'Lie to Me' bullshit with Tim Roth. How you can 'absolutely tell 100%' that someone's lying. All the 'tells' and all that, they just made it up. All those facial tics are generally a cultural thing anyway. They're specific to a culture.They don't necessarily mean you're lying.

[ThunderDog97]

As I said.... it's an "indicator".

I didn't even suggest that I knew if he was lying or not.

--

[bernardthunder]

Could also just be a little vanity also.

[pritz29]

Channel 4 is just trying to perpuate an idea which Amis is trying to dismiss, you know we can criticise islamic people-based on their actions same we can of Hindu's,Christians, Jewish etc. Amis critices people who use their religion for what he see's as justification for disgusting things why can't he criticise THOSE who do this...he is attacking the actions not the religion

[michelangeli23]

Eagleton (who is both a Catholic and a Marxist - nice combination!), simply quoted Amis out of context. Amis was describing one way of "raising the price" of terrorist action. What he suggested was merely an urge in favour of what would be a utilitarian policy. And he didn't even advocate that policy. Eagleton, ideological relict that he is, apparently wants to silence simple philosophical thought and utilitarian speculations.

[michelangeli23]

The Terry Eagleton, a terrible Catholic-Marxist, simply quoted Amis out of context. Amis was describing one way of "raising the price" of terrorist action. What he suggested was merely an urge in favour of what would be a utilitarian policy. And he didn't even advocate that policy. Eagleton, ideological relict that he is, apparently wants to silence simple philosophical thought and utilitarian speculations.

[scotty123123]

Jon Snow is a total idiot!

[markh79sax]

what makes you say that?

[bobcool3]

Martin Amis is a very intelligent man and a gifted writer and it is way below his intellect to take Quaranic verses out of context he has let himself down horribly.

[DarKool81]

The roots of ethical error lie in moral not intellectual soil

[kynismos]

This is ridiculous! Martin Amis is an artist and not a journalist. He does not have to mince his words. He can be honest about his urges and feelings. Eagleton must be a real simpleton. Nevertheless, an enlightening interview.

[xadlite]

Snow is excellent.

Amis is fumbling and obviously nervous because he knows his comments are wrong and incredibly insulting as well as stupid. His father would be proud no doubt.

[archstan8]

what's wrong with his comments? why are they stupid? why is snow excellent? it seems to me that snow is being obtuse and amis is entirely reasonable in suggesting that something is profoundly wrong with islam if it remains silent or indeed encourages islamists to murder innocent people all over the world. the islamists are the racists, the homophobes, the anti-semites, the uneducated, the illiterate, and the murderous. their culture is a wasteland. please clarify your moronic comment for me.

[DrSaxNJ]

god, Snow is a moron.

[indoknowsbest]

Snow is an idiot pure and simple. He reaffirmed points that Martin had crushed only minutes earlier. His post-colonial guilt is tiring. I mean, you could see the pain on Martin's face when Snow makes the "point" about artists from Iran.

God he's such a freaking idiot. Do you think you're morally superior to Islam? Really? Have you read the fucking Koran? People with such obvious cognitive difficulties shouldn't be allowed on television.

[threecundies]

Amis is right when he talks about the "polite fiction" we have to act out to avoid stating the obvious fact that we have a problem with Islamism (in other words, serious Islam). The problem with discussing Islam is that if you are a high profile person then you are very likely to be putting your life on the line. There is a very real sense of menace and thuggery. Ask Hirsi Ali, Wilders, Rushdie etc. The fawning contradictory stance of the idiotic Left vis-à-vis Islamism sickens me. Shariah-Creep

[bantuz]

Martin Amis... what should I say??? the question is in what position must a person be, to state actions like this, is it because they are so intellectual

the next question should be, are these terrorist, terrorist because they dont see another why out? is it retaliation? is it hate? I dont think any of us that are suffering this internet right now can answer this question.

and Martin Amis definitely cat either.

cheers.

[diceman7bn]

Amis is correct: most countries in the middle east are backward looking. just chill out, relax and open your eyes

[euclidxxx]

Amis is contradicting himself. One minute he is maligning Islam and Muslims in toto, the next he says he understands the distinction between 'Islam' and 'Islamism'... And what nonsense about harmless 'urges' of racism!

Also, it's sheer ignorance to say there's been little 'translated' in Arabic (presumably he means 'translated from English'). (He can only say things like that because he knows he won't be challenged; most people in the UK are not, of course, Arabists.)

[jaybzjaybz]

"terry eagleton, it's becoming hilariously clear, just trawls the internet looking for something to feel self-righteous about" !

[klimes86]

John Snow is being such a penus here. As an aspiring journalist, he is not a person I would like to emulate. He has the typical attitude, "Everything that's happening in the Middle East is our fault." I've met Eagleton, an extremely bright guy but his argument against Amis stink a little bit as it got a bit personal. He did not just attack Martin Amis's views, but also his father.

[cpjuk]

You make a good point but might suggest you're being a little harsh. C4 news (particularly Snow) has a reputation for being impartial and to challenge the view, no matter what, from any pundit/author/politician/dogma­tic know-it-all. The fact that Martin Amis was given the best part of 10 mins to portray this controversial opinion (and one I agree with I may add; see earlier comment) should be commended. To me the challenges from Snow were fair and gave Amis every chance to respond properly.

[Elcore]

It's nothing to do with Snow! - he's just reading the questions Channel 4 tells him to ask. Besides, to agree with everything your interviewee is saying is like journalistic suicide. Where would the debate go? It's a good interview - if only there was more of a balance on the TV between mindless auto-feed like Big Brother and the celebrity gossip shows, and figures like Amis. And it's pen'i's.

[andrewshere]

It's disappointing to witness Jon Snow here shamelessly and relentlessly attempting to provoke a sensationalist response - perhaps (I say generously) at the behest of his editor. Amis is surprisingly patient with his repeated distinctions between Islam and Islamism. Snow's pursuit in this manner just makes him look a bit dumb. How much plainer could Amis have made it?

[homanyousofi]

go look up ism's - he's making excuses

[andrewshere]

Thanks, homanyousofi. For me, I think Amis is quite clear about the distinction he is making, and uses the suffix '-ism' to that end. At 1:42 in this exerpt, Snow again ignores the drawn distinction when he makes the non-point that creative artists coming from Iran may or may not be on the side of the mullahs, but that "nevertheless they are Islamic people". Amis - momentarily lost for words - replies that he is not condemning an entire religion, just the radical wing. Yet still Snow persists.

[blatspanner]

islamophobia is when you see a muslim you start freakin' out and sweating like mel brookes in 'high anxiety'.cloris leachman is well fit in that fucking movie.she chomps stogies like a fat fat cock.

[fluidsonly]

It's good to see the man able to give his own account of his views rather than depend upon the accounts of others.

[mavaddat]

What is "affectacious"? Did you mean "affected"?

[Alessandro1985]

I love amis! Read his latest book "the second plane". He's been taken horribly out of context by the islington dinner party circuit. He's really quite nice & liberal. He thinks very clearly indeed.

[sidviscous]

do some research and then look at what you have written. until then i think it's safe to call you an idiot

[jazztitch]

"Affectacious", grapejellysugarmommy? Isn't that a bit affectacious? Mart might be good at words, but he wouldn't be so hilarious as you use "affectatious" when he means "affected".

[darklogos0]

Amis gives us his usual Islmaphobic rhetoric and attempts to be clever by spouting psychobabble but all he does is comes across as a rather smug person trying to find reasons for his prejudices.

[PhillyDickinson]

Define islamophobia please.

[fasterthaninstant]

The problem is that by going un-checked, respect to Eagleton, his personal "urges" will to a significant degree validate a rascist urge in the public domain.

Islam is not a murderous Ideology, and we live in the same communities. What would be achieved by ostracizing Muslims (note Amis' use of "them", "us", "we") further.

[tuftybox1821]

'Islam is not a murderous Ideology'.

Islamsim is. Amis made a very clear distinction between the two. Weren't you listening?

[possessorfaust]

"the anti-semites, the psychotic mysogonists and homophobics, are the Islamists."

Good line Martin

[TomthatiscalledTom]

Persecute 'dusky' passengers at airports and within a while, Al Qaida will dispatch a cell of blond blue-eyed converts to board the plane with knives in their suits

[campbellonia]

Good point. I remember in the Seventies when the Palestinians "hired" a group of Japanese suicide-cultists to attempt an airport bombing. Terrorists are motivated by religion and ideology, but they'll try anything that works towards their aims. Still, Amis makes a fair point, and is not a racist in any sense. If David Myatt can be accepted as part of the Jihadist Umma, then racism doesn't even come into it.

[BlackProteus]

You've got some facts wrong. The People's Front for the Liberation of Palestine were helped by the Japanese Red Army to make the attack of which you speak. They were both Marxist organizations. The PFLP *did* use the JRA because they were racially different, and so not as suspect. So your point remains, but I thought I'd correct the details: Not a suicide cult -- a Marxist guerrilla group; not hired -- but in ideological solidarity.

[NathanZackery]

Amis is correct to say 'why shouldn't we admit to how we feel?' Political correctness wishes to censor what people say, with the result that they only say it in private. Accusing people of racism doesn't cure it.

[cpjuk]

Martin Amis makes a valid point.

During football tournaments, airport security profile check 16-45 yr old white men to ensure known hooligan haven't travelled.

In the same vein, terrorist searches should focus primarily on those from the Middle East/Pakistan. That isn't racist, that is common sense.

[akindofblue]

exactly, we have to regain some sanity on this