Mario Kart Wii: 150cc Banana Cup (3 Stars With 5 Falls)

[yoondad]

Awsome

[DarkMitarwii]

@yoondad Thanks!

[miniman1676]

DarkMitarWii. I've posted an asking for being in you group on one of Gravtacs videos. So confirm or unconfirm soon like I asked Gravtac.

[DarkMitarwii]

@miniman1676 thanks! We could use some help, indeed. Feel free to help us testing if you think you can do fine on 150cc or Mirror Cups. We spend a lot of time playing MKW.

[Gravtac]

I think the key is to collide with CPU's in the first 30 seconds because I think the position penalty starts somewhere around 30 seconds. I believe the position penalty may start at just one second and build the longer one is out of first and how bad the position is. So hitting CPU's with items was easy to do from first place, but testing bumping CPU's would be much harder to accurately test.

[DarkMitarwii]

@Gravtac So hitting the penguins is a 4 second penalty? Interesting. Same could be for cows on Moo Moo Meadows?

You really are working hard with your testings. You discovered so many factors in very short time. Thank you so much for taking your time to do all that.

I intensively tested the max times for some Wii Cups and Retro Cups as well. However, I think that I should do all of my testings over again thanks to your latest discoveries. :)

[Gravtac]

@DarkMitarwii Yeah, I've been obsessed lately because I want to replace my old 3 Star Video guide but I want to have enough facts gathered so other people could help us test. Now I know about the hitting bonus I'm going to re-examine the position penalty and see if I can get a little closer to the answer before I publish a new 3 star guide. I'm hoping to publish it in the next week or two.

[Gravtac]

@DarkMitarwii Here is my latest findings after retesting.

Max times:

Sherbet Land 3:00

Delfino Square 3:00

Waluigi Stadium 3:00 (weird that they are all 3 minutes?)

Luigi Circuit 1:35

MooMoo Meadows 1:50

Mushroom Gorge 2:15

Toad's Factory 2:35

All these were done with jumping out to a lead as fast as possible and not falling out of 1st the rest of the race. Then I also made sure not to hit any CPU's with items. So I feel pretty confident in all these times.

[DarkMitarwii]

@Gravtac Thank you! I've been testing max times too. I think GBA Shy Guy Beach is 2:00 even though some people say it's 2:05. I had hard times of getting 3 stars with just under to 2:05.

Uploaded "Mario Kart Wii: 150cc Banana Cup (2 Stars With 8 Falls)".

[DarkMitarwii]

@Gravtac Waluigi Stadium could be over 3 minutes, maybe.

[Gravtac]

@DarkMitarwii I forgot to mention that I did not seem to get a bonus for hitting CPU's while using Bullet Bill, Invincibility Star, mushrooms or golden mushrooms (never tested the mega mushroom). So right now the only bonuses I've confirmed are for hitting CPU's with a banana, fake item box, red shells and green shells.

I bet you are right about hitting CPU's into walls or off edges, but I'm not sure how to test that without figuring out the position penalty first.

[Gravtac]

@DarkMitarwii As far as hitting cows, I wonder about that too. Hitting Cows, hitting cars on Moonview Highway, and Bats (Wario's Gold Mine and Dry Dry Ruins) are so different than hitting walls and penguins.

[Gravtac]

@DarkMitarwii Here is my most up to date list about hitting CPU's.

Hitting CPU's with red shells, green shells, fake item boxes, and bananas is a 2 second bonus.

Driving into CPU's while using Bullet Bill, Mega Mushroom, Mushroom, Golden Mushroom, and Invincibility Stars does not receive a bonus.

Unknown:  Penalty for running into a CPU's item? Bonus for bumping CPU into wall or a fall?

Unverified - Collisions with everything but: penguins, fireballs, giant piranha plants, crabs, & goombas

[DarkMitarwii]

@Gravtac I think you have sufficent info about 3 stars or enough good facts to make the (pretty much) most accurate guide to date, you can make mini guide for now, and you can update it later when more factors are found (if you needed).

[Gravtac]

@DarkMitarwii I'm sure you're right. I just hate it that the position penalty is still so unknown.

I also tested whether or not there is a bonus for shaking off a POW Block (someone said there was) and there isn't.

[Gravtac]

I forgot to tell you how I tested the hitting CPU's with items. What I did was verify that hitting 4 penguins was a 16 second penalty (I did not hit CPU's and avoided contact as much as possible). Then I jumped out to a lead as fast as I could in Sherbet Land to avoid any position penalty. After I was in the lead I made sure I only hit on CPU and also hit four penguins while constantly staying in 1st.

I think this method could work for testing Bullet Bill and colliding with CPU's.

[Gravtac]

So the position penalty only occurs if you made the max time without the position penalty added in, yet failed to make the max time with the position penalty added in. (I have tried and tried to get the position penalty more than once per cup and have never been able to do so.) I also never missed the max time and incurred the position penalty for the same course (I lost only one ranking even if I missed the max time while staying in 12th most of the race).

[DarkMitarwii]

@Gravtac I don't know what exactly causes the position penalty eighther. I don't think it's calculated by time like seconds e.g how long you're falling behind the others.

Maybe pecentage rate of your average 1st and worse positions (for that race). Maybe?

I think it's the % of 1st place / bad place and a distance travelled. I also think if you fall, your "bad position time" is halved and you need to get in 1st place really fast.

[DarkMitarwii]

@Gravtac And it seems that sometimes, more than one penalty on same course donot hurt your 2 stars. Whether you believe it or not I had 2 star video with 7 falls. I would miss max time on 3 races out of 4 if it was for 3 stars, so I think, 2 star requirements are much different that the requirements for 3. I think there's no position penalty at all (for 2 stars). I think the time penaties are reduced also.

[Gravtac]

@DarkMitarwii I got to say my findings were different. I have always been able to know in advance what my ranking will be with the exception of the position penalty. From what I've found each missed max time is a -1 ranking, and a missed max time overrides the position penalty. So I would love to see any videos where you got 2 stars and missed the max times on more than one course.

But I do concur that the known penalties might influence the position penalty.

[DarkMitarwii]

@Gravtac Ok, I'll upload some "weird" 2 star videos soon! Sorry about my previous comment. To correct myself about position penalty. As we both know, your position does matter for 2 stars but not that much.

[DarkMitarwii]

@Gravtac Are you saying that you are not penalized for being in bad position with the position penalty if you miss the max time?

I think when you get the penalties - are for the race only, not for the Cup.

Anyway, I got a two-star video for the 150cc Mushroom Cup and I can upload it next time.

I missed max times on three races: race 1, race 3, and race 4 (if I remember correctly). It has 2 falls. Will that video be good enough or do you want me to do another video with more falling in it?

[Gravtac]

@DarkMitarwii I agree and the position penalty happens on a course and not the whole cup, but what I've found is that missing the max time overrides the position penalty.

So in other words, miss the max time on the 1st race and occur the position penalty is only -1 ranking.

Miss the max time on the 1st race, get the position penalty in the 2nd race, get -2 ranking.

Miss the max times on all four races and incur the position penalty on all four races will be -4 ranking.

Does that make sense?

[DarkMitarwii]

@Gravtac I understand what you're trying to say. I think, it's like this: there are max times for 3 stars and the max times for 2.

As I promised I, uploaded "150cc Mushroom Cup With Missed Max Times/Test" video. It's unlisted right now. You can find the link to it in the description of this video.

[Gravtac]

@DarkMitarwii So here is the way I have found the rankings to be calculated.

-1 ranking for every missed max time.

-1 for position penalty (if the max time was not missed) and only one position penalty can be incurred for entire cup

-1 for 52-59 standing points.

-2 for 40-51 standing points

-3 for 16-39 standing points

-4 for 0-15 standing points

So yes, if you have a video that proves my findings incorrect I'd love to see it (and 1 video is fine).

[DarkMitarwii]

@Gravtac Thank you very much for the info. Okay, I'll up the video next time.

[Gravtac]

@DarkMitarwii And I also tried to do a video with 7 falls and got 2 stars. I will admit that I thought I missed the max time on 2 races when I got the 2 stars, but I couldn't be sure so I assumed that I must have only missed the max time on one course. So maybe your right about the 2 star ranking, but at this time I'm still skeptical that one can get 2 stars while missing the max time on more than one course.

Thanks again for sharing all your findings, it has been really fun working with you.

[Gravtac]

So even though I can't figure out what the threshold is exactly, I feel very comfortable that it is a time penalty at the course level and not the cup level (when I calculated time penalties against my cup times there was no consistency whatsoever). And as you proved is not not a straight calc of time out of 1st or in some way back position (or your near 3:00 time on Sherbet won't have worked). And the penalty is never part of the ranking if you already failed the max time.

[DarkMitarwii]

@Gravtac If you fall twice, then it's like all over unless you have some descend lead advantage over other racers. Well, I'm guessing this but I was extremely cautious to my position when I was doing my 3 star video with 2 falls - so far succeeded only 2 times. It's really, really hard to get 3 stars with falling twice.

[Gravtac]

So after analyzing all 20+ recordings of my 2 star and 3 star races, it seemed that once I crossed the threshold there was a time penalty of around 8 seconds. The 8 second penalty really seemed to work because so many of my videos that were 3 stars had a Sherbet time of >2:52 and the 2 stars had times on Sherbet of <2:52. But as I tried to verify what the threshold was, I started getting inconsistent results.

[Gravtac]

@Gravtac Sorry, I reversed my "less than" and "greater than" symbols. 2 star videos were greater than and equal to 2:52 while the 3 star videos were less than 2:52

[DarkMitarwii]

@Gravtac It seems that my information about penatly for falling = 9 seconds was incorrect. I haven't been doing much testing since then, I think it's closer to eight than nine, even, though, back then I wasn't able to get 3 stars with 8. I think, it's because I was not sufficiently attentive to my position.

[Gravtac]

I've been thinking more about the position penalty. I went back and looked at your "how to really get 3 stars" video and realized that the penalty has to start after reaching some threshold. In other words, it can't be a penalty based just on time in some position or you would have had some penalty during your video. So it must happen after a certain amount of time (or some other trigger). -->

[seljak14022222222222]

Great job! I've done 3 stars with 10 falls.

[DarkMitarwii]

@seljak14022222222222 Thanks! You've done... What?! Uh, I'm sorry, I'm confused. :) I don't see your video. 3 stars with 10 fall? So sorry, I'm just trying to understand. Would mind uploading that video of yours?

[Gravtac]

Awesome discovery! Did you determine that 2:43 was the worst score you could get and still get 3 stars? I just got 2:44 and only got 2 stars but I'm not totally sure I didn't get the position penalty. If that is the worst score, then it's 9 seconds for 1st fall and 7 for the second fall. (Very strange time penalties.)

Thanks for sharing the discovery! I'm still trying to disprove my hypothesis about the bloopers and so on. I think I may have my hypothesis disproved, I'll let you know.

[DarkMitarwii]

@Gravtac Thank you!

[goittagofast321]

wowzerz

[j99431]

get internet now!! i am mad at you! lol

[DarkMitarwii]

@j99431 I wish I could :(