A big problem I have with this scene is that everything Azrael says is so understandable and sympathetic that their nonchalance about killing him is fucking disgusting.
They're the good guys, apparently, but are unable to show even the slightest pity to this guy?
@louthegiantcookie In their defense he was trying to kill everything in order to escape Hell. His reasons for wanting out become somewhat irrelevant when you consider that he's dooming everyone; innocent and sinner, believer and non-believer alike to the void of nothingnness. Is Hell horrifying and terrible, oh undoubtably. Is it sympathetic for someone to bring about the end of existance itself in order to escape such a fate, that's where things get questionable.
@DragonmanX90 Nothingness almost seems preferable to having to spend your whole life in fear of this omnipotent bully and then spending the rest of ETERNITY mindlessly praising him. Hitchens once called Heaven a 'celestial North Korea' and it's an apt description.
They hear everything he said, everything God drove him to do and then mindlessly cosy up to her at the end of the movie. Maybe, just maybe, God's a little bit unfair. But no, they never ask that question and brainlessly follow orders.
@louthegiantcookie Here's the problem I have with your argument; no one ordered them to kill azrael. They took him out because he was going to kill them, in that light it was self preservation in addition to having to stop the angels. And nothingness may be better than hell for Azrael, but to damn every single living entity to the same fate does not warrant sympathy. He started out as a victim of sorts, and he became an omicidal psycho at the end.
I feel like it was cut because it was just a little too heavy on the philosophy in comparison to the rest of the movie. A little TOO serious. Amazing scene...just not for Dogma.
@FinalFirebrand I have the movie on DVD, and this is in the deleted scenes section. There's an introduction to it by Kevin Smith, and he says that they cut it after showing the movie at Cannes- journalists had said that this scene is just a B-plot, and doesn't further along the main story. So he caved in and dropped it. It's a damn shame though, this is easily one of my favorite scenes from any movie I've ever seen, and something that Jason Lee should be insanely proud of.
This almost wouldve made up for that cunt alanis being in that movie...in fact the story is genius...kevin is a fan boy douche and jay n silent bob are prop clowns...movie equivalents of blowup dolls. Oh affleck sux balls...and has chris rock ever made a good movie?...carlin was hilarious...i'd eat hayek's ass out even after a bad case of the runs...only carlin, hayek's ass, and the plot enable me to watch this movie on occasion. Oh...the meditron was great. Damon is tolerable.
@benzinhuhn my guess is it would anger the Christian community even further, that 2 minutes saying that Hell is abstract concept of man own creations, not a place for sinners that can never be forgiven is a lie, it is throwing out a maybe half the christain teaching out the window.
Really there are debate if Hell actually exists and just Heaven and how that would effect the Christian view.
Or it would have made Azrael look better and feel sorry for him.
@demecowen true. although i guess that in a movie where christianity is taken apart into pieces this one scene doesn´t seem that important to me. But talking only on a "movie-level"; I think they should have kept it in the movie cause it gives Azrael a kind of understandable reason to do the things he does. oh well xD not the first great scene that got cut out .. at least it´s on youtube.
Hell is the absence of God...in essence...we're in hell...and most people in it suffer because they can't come to grips with the reasons they make the decisions they do...
Then again...there are lots of people that pass judgement on others in this world, so by that regard...he is not absent...
I'm being totally sarcastic when I say that...but...
Too bad they cut this scene, it really completed Jason Lee's character and was possibly the most thought provoking scene in the movie. But I suppose I can see why they cut it, you never know what kind of a reaction the audience will have.
Yea this will sound a BIT TOO WIRED, but for the past few weeks I've been watching this clip atleast 10-12 times a week. Right before I go to sleep.....
I said 10-12 times because some nights I watch it twice.
in the end jason says"i rather not exist then go back to that". thats heavy.very heavy.it means the suffering was so bad that he prefers not to exist!!!!!
The messed up part is that he brings up a very good point here. Most cynics argue that a God who sends people to Hell couldn't possibly be a merciful one, and yet this is the same God that would forgive any atrocity you could possibly have ever committed if only you ask. That's all you have to do: ask. You mean to tell me that doesn't sound like a merciful God to you?
@stomyn But it is more than simply asking. With asking comes faith God exists. And with faith comes devotion. On top of that, faith is believing without having any proof or reason to. And so in order to save oneself, you are being forced to devote yourself to something that there is no proof to exist. And humans tend to be very realist with most things. Humans want proof and explanations. So by "asking" to be saved, you are defying what is natural for humans. And thats what it isn't so merciful.
@druvirus really? because I really never had ay problem with it, hell I've had a harder time imagining a world where God doesn't exist as opposed to one where he does. Not to mention our ancestors never really seemed to have a problem with it. If you really think about it, the whole "it doesn't make sense for there to be a higher power" ideal is actually a rather recent development in human history, so to say it's against human nature to beleive in God really doesn't add up.
@stomyn Our ancestors also believed the world was flat. And that we were the center of the universe. There's a lot of things we once believed that have been phased out because .. well .. we learned more. We once were confused about why it rained. Or what the big, bright ball in the sky was. And guess what? We no longer believe the sun is a god with his chariot, racing across the sky. Why? Because we found out what the sun actually is. So .. yeah .. it actually does add up.
@stomyn And, actually, it isn't something new. The idea has been around since Plato's time. While it was commonly believed some form of higher existence was out there, the concept of there not being one was heard of. Do you really want to go over a list of things that were once believed to be true but are now proven false? I mean, aside from blood-letting and using leeches to cure illness. Drinking mercury was a common practice to try and gain immortality but it doesn't quite work.
@stomyn Human nature is to try to use logic to solve problems. This comes directly from our ancestors. We find a problem, we solve it. In that sense, they saw rain but had no way to find out what did it .. so they made up some stories. They had no idea why they existed, so they made up stories. The further along in technology we got, the more we tried to discover things. We dissected animals and humans to figure out how they work. We keep questioning and figuring things out. Its human nature.
@druvirus and yet, despite all the "proof" that keeps popping up over the past few decades that God "doesn't exist", there are still over a billion people dedicating their lives to Him, holding on to their beleifs, despite their "human nature" telling them He doesn't exist
@stomyn Yup. A mass form of insanity that is culturally accepted. It's an amazing phenomenon. If anybody else were to claim that an otherworldly being that can't be seen, heard, or touched and had magic powers was bringing people to another dimension after they died .. he would be locked up in a big, comfy room. But get a billion people to say the same thing and suddenly its "real".
@stomyn Several reasons. One is that children are indoctrinated at an early age. They're taught from a tender, impressionable age what to believe and how to believe it .. and this persists into later years. Another is fear; of death, of eternal misery, of their loved ones simply being gone. People don't want to believe they die and then they just poof. Some are scared of the idea of "hell' so they take the safe route and go along with being "saved". Some have feelings of religiosity.
@stomyn If you want to go with the "long term belief in something must mean its true" concept, you're following the wrong religion. I would go with Hinduism which has been around longer. Judaism would be another possibility. Or you can go even further back to other polytheistic traditions. If beliefs in those have lasted longer than Christianity then doesn't that mean there's a reason it has?
@stomyn Yeah, it's called brainwashing, and nobody who has ever been brainwashed thinks of themselves that way. The people who believe despite all the "proof" as you put it are clearly an example of that. We are simply poorly evolved, we fear the dark, we fear death, and so we make up things to comfort us and it;s easier when it's spoon fed to you from an early age
I think it takes away from the light hearted "black comedy" feel of the movie, therefore removed. It's quite a powerful scene, but can you imagine the OUTCRY that would come out against this movie if this scene hadn't been cut? It's more or less exposing the true doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church. To me anyway.
@almostblue22 I totally do, the Nicean council meeting in 'remaking' their current Christianity stated humans made hell more or less, hence if they chose a God to become a demon that Heaven had to make it so. It was a really convoluted meeting so forgive me for the tl;dr version, but in that one tiny meeting they stated the Heavenly law was decided by man in aspects of Hell and Demons.
@almostblue22 in a twisted kind of way, the most sense I have ever heard concerning religion and Heaven came from this movie, from this rant, the fact that Jesus had brothers and sisters, even the whole "better to have ideas than beleifs" bit.
MAAAAANN! this would have been one of my favourite scenes! I'd always prefer something with morally blurred lines- something to think about- and not just the cliché, old, vapid, 'Good guy kills, but for greater good (government, America, Democracy, ad infinitum)' This may not have been any real mind-f***, but it still adds depth!
@AscendingAshTree I agree with you. The morally blurred lines really do give one pause to think about such things, and such things in any movie really leave alot open for one to ponder in any form be it a basis for fictional writings or true to life scenarios
There is absolutely no reason to cut this scene from the movie, other than to keep the audience from identifying completely with the "bad guy." Movie goers need to be TOLD who to root for, and if this scene were to remain in the finished product, it could potentially undermine the entire film. Azreal reveals his true reason for the plot, and sorry to say it....I can see his point.
The film loses a LOT without this scene. Without it, Azrael is just a nefarious demon that gets killed. This gives him character. Shame it was cut... a real shame.
I really think this would have been cool in the film. I am happy to have been able to see it. I think this would have rounded out the story more than the bloodletting towards t the end.
this is just like how in stand up some jokes u just can't tell because the recation its too uncertin this being a powerful clip puts off the vibe that this isn't just comdey but something more
This really should have been in the movie. It would have encouraged many people to rethink their views on hell and the afterlife, and how that affects their views and behaviors here on Earth. Even if 9 out of 10 people would watch it sail over their heads, at least that one person would think.
@evansmith4401 There's a book that deals with that. In it, all of the souls tortured in Hell escape when Satan decides he's done with it. They all arrive at the real that houses the imbodiment of Death--not knowing where else to go. Most of them are surprisingly nice and normal. But they belived that they had done something to wrong to ever deserve heaven--like one woman who cheated on her husband--and so they're souls subconciously choose hell. Sorry that was long! :)
@repogirl20 oh i see, is that actually from the film or is that from some catholic doctrine. didnt he say is this clip hell was just the absence of God, but the people decde they needed to be pushed further? what i dont understand is that he said they were gluttons for punishment because they believed God woud never forgive them, so does that mean that He,sorry, She would, if they stopped being so self obsessed when they were in Hell?
@evansmith4401 I don't know. But Hell was first said to be only for punishing those that stood against her in the first war of heaven. So I think that before humans decided that they could never be forgiven--she would have. She seems very nice to me. :)
She didn't forgive Bartleby and Loki for ONE drunk night until the very end of the movie, though. She banished them to Wisconsin forever and denied entrance to heaven. Just because Loki acts like a drunken ass on the advice of his asshole of a friend. Old Testament wrath indeed...
@evansmith4401 You have to remember how people were back in the day. The world was pretty much ran by the church, it's not like it is today. People went to church and believed everything they were told. Stealing is a crime because our laws say it is and its wrong, back then it was in the bible and you would get your hands cut off. Bad people feared death because they knew they would pay the price in the long run.
has nothing to do with want to be punished but rather with your peace of mind. God,Allah or whatever doesn't decide if you go to "hell" or "heaven", your soul decides if you can die peacefully or not
One of THE best monologues I've ever seen. Muchos Kudos. I wish more film directors had the balls to draw attention to one of the most important and controversial topics of life, human morality and the negative influence of God/religion in society. Pretty self evident considering I'm commenting on a deleted scene thanks to the frail nature of religious belief. Without God, life is everything.
People need to be told what to do, whats right or wrong, because if everything is accepted, reality has no meaning - no purpose. If it was okay for everyone to do anything, morally or otherwise, it would all seem to pointless. Imagine a world where its absolute chaos, no rules, no bounds. Life is meaningless if you dont have any reference points, rules to follow, limitations, boundaries, taboos, theres no way to measure your life, and no point to be here
There are only a handful of movie dialogue that actually shake me at a subscious level and scare the crap out of me. Azraels speech about how human's created a torturous 'hell', the parking lot scene when loki accuses bartelbe of sounding like the lucifer and watch the movie Sneakers (Robert Redford) and listen to the server room discussion he has with Ben Kingsley on how society operates not on reality but the perception of it.
i do like this scene, and it is good to hear peopes philosophies, but this scene if you really listen is trying to say that man has constructed hell to be fire, and burning sulfure with helish screams. in other words it seems to me that azrael is mad because hell wasnt that bad of a place until man constructed it to be what it is now from their imaginations, and their ideas. he seems to be saying that he could handle the absence of god rather then: the abscence of god, and our man conjured hell.
@tazukii I think he's mad for the simple reason that the fallen angels have been blamed for the plight of humanity when in fact it's man's imagination which creates HIS hell for himself. It seems to me Azrael is sick of being blamed for humanities gift of FREE WILL, specifically the part where they don't choose God. The rest is basically man's creation of suffering and punishment for having made that choice. He's telling us that WE are the inspiration for what THEY can create on our behalf.
Holy shit, why was this scene cut from the movie? This is some of the best dialogue I've ever heard! Kevin Smith is capable of some absolutely brilliant stuff.
Hmmmm.....I remember watching this some time ago on the nets, but I believe there was a little more to it. When he throws the gun to one of the triplets, he then goes on to show Bethany the true nature of hell (it was an unfinished shot). He then closes with, I'd rather not exist then go back to that (that's why the cut looks a little funky at the end).
@twist109 most of those movies are just childhood indoctrination. people call me a conspiracy nut all the time bc of all of the symbolism I see in them but some of it is so obvious even my 9 year old nephew notices it. I believe this line was removed from the movie bc its actually true. As painful as that is for ppl to accept, there are exceptions, but human beings, including myself are just animals, and unfortunately an entire generation has been sacrificed bc of this.
Best.Scene.Ever! Shame it got deleted, it makes everything so damn clear. Lee is doing a kick-ass job, letting Azrael's rage and frustration show through.
But then again, the entire movie is made of awesome. Besides, I found it very faith-affirming for myself, especially the portrayal of God in the end. I mean, really...God is a happy, free-spirited girl, running around, staring at the wonders of the world with wide eyes? Best portrayal of God I saw so far.
I dont think ive agreed with a line in a movie so much. Humans are evil, they never own up to their sins or take personal responsibility for anything. They are shallow, arrogant souls who do not deserve what god gives them and they are always looking for salvation outside of themselves. Call me evil, but it is such a slap in the face to personal responsibility, and to top it all off, they blame it all on the devil and/or demons. Humanity needs to grow up and stop being babies.
It's a pity this scene was cut, as it defines Azrael's whole motivation. Without it, he just seems like a demon doing bad things. With it, there's a whole deeper meaning.
'I've spent ions, privy to the flames, inhaling the decay, hearing the wail of the damned! I KNOW-WAT EFFECT, SUCH HORRORS HAVE-ON THE DELICATE PSYCHE OF AN ANGELIC BEING!" He has every right to be angry at us.
i think the monologue was too deep and lots of viewers would have hated seeing that...im pretty sure the movie got lots of bad rep when the movie came out anyways but this would have put the bow on it
@toastgirl87 i just wish smith made more movies with the intelligent and razor sharp social commentary that he did with his earlier films. i know he's said that he can't make those movies anymore because it's no longer what he knows...but i know that somewhere deep inside he still has it in him. and i'm hoping red state is even half as good as this
Most likely they wanted to clip a few minutes out of the movie and picked something that they felt didn't add anything. For some reason,(Cough*DVD SALES*Cough) they always seem to pick the best scenes to cut.
1: In a movie that is already over 2 hours, KS likely wanted to excise as much secondary material as he could to cut down on the running time.
2: This is a fairly heady rant for maintsream audiences in a movie that is already chock full of heady subject matter. More of the same would've likely caused most audiences to tune out. Sad but true.
3: KS ultimately decided to keep Hell as vague as a concept as possible in Dogma.
why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why would Kevin Smith ever delete this scene from his movie it is by far the best scene in any movie I have ever seen him make and its DELETED?!?! someone please this explain to me?
on second thought, I think it should have been left in. even if you can't understand it the first time, it gives Azrael stronger motivation for what he's trying to do.
This whole movie is another way of saying that belief has a lot of power and should be wielded responsibly. This epic scene would have made an epic film much more... erm... epic.
@KC8231 A question raised when I saw I Am Legend is I guess, equal to what you just said. If you were the last person on earth, there would be no responcibility, evil, guilt, or any other human made idea, because they are all based around each other, and they are all an intersubjective and most of all, a circularly reasoned concept. (You're evil because of x and x makes you evil.) The only thing they do to us is limit us in our existence. (Not english so some words might be incorrect.)
that speech was awsome, it makes perfect sense too. wow, its monday morning and my head is already caught up in the complexity of what i just watched, fucking brilliant
@twist109: Why the hell do you watch films if you don't listen to what the freaking actors have to say? Or should the writers just give on dialogue completely and make the actors just pull expressions to a series of emoticons?
Fuckin dope lines.
Gantzer1 1 week ago
This video is possibly one of the greatest deleted scenes I've seen.
deathshadow2492 3 weeks ago
A big problem I have with this scene is that everything Azrael says is so understandable and sympathetic that their nonchalance about killing him is fucking disgusting.
They're the good guys, apparently, but are unable to show even the slightest pity to this guy?
louthegiantcookie 1 month ago
@louthegiantcookie In their defense he was trying to kill everything in order to escape Hell. His reasons for wanting out become somewhat irrelevant when you consider that he's dooming everyone; innocent and sinner, believer and non-believer alike to the void of nothingnness. Is Hell horrifying and terrible, oh undoubtably. Is it sympathetic for someone to bring about the end of existance itself in order to escape such a fate, that's where things get questionable.
DragonmanX90 1 week ago
@DragonmanX90 Nothingness almost seems preferable to having to spend your whole life in fear of this omnipotent bully and then spending the rest of ETERNITY mindlessly praising him. Hitchens once called Heaven a 'celestial North Korea' and it's an apt description.
They hear everything he said, everything God drove him to do and then mindlessly cosy up to her at the end of the movie. Maybe, just maybe, God's a little bit unfair. But no, they never ask that question and brainlessly follow orders.
louthegiantcookie 1 week ago
@louthegiantcookie Here's the problem I have with your argument; no one ordered them to kill azrael. They took him out because he was going to kill them, in that light it was self preservation in addition to having to stop the angels. And nothingness may be better than hell for Azrael, but to damn every single living entity to the same fate does not warrant sympathy. He started out as a victim of sorts, and he became an omicidal psycho at the end.
DragonmanX90 1 week ago
I feel like it was cut because it was just a little too heavy on the philosophy in comparison to the rest of the movie. A little TOO serious. Amazing scene...just not for Dogma.
FinalFirebrand 1 month ago
@FinalFirebrand I have the movie on DVD, and this is in the deleted scenes section. There's an introduction to it by Kevin Smith, and he says that they cut it after showing the movie at Cannes- journalists had said that this scene is just a B-plot, and doesn't further along the main story. So he caved in and dropped it. It's a damn shame though, this is easily one of my favorite scenes from any movie I've ever seen, and something that Jason Lee should be insanely proud of.
tag7100 1 month ago
This needed to be in the movie
dayman152 1 month ago
This is an amazing scence... I can't believe that it was cut...
Rahera22 2 months ago
This almost wouldve made up for that cunt alanis being in that movie...in fact the story is genius...kevin is a fan boy douche and jay n silent bob are prop clowns...movie equivalents of blowup dolls. Oh affleck sux balls...and has chris rock ever made a good movie?...carlin was hilarious...i'd eat hayek's ass out even after a bad case of the runs...only carlin, hayek's ass, and the plot enable me to watch this movie on occasion. Oh...the meditron was great. Damon is tolerable.
bastardluv 2 months ago
Jeez, that is a really good scene, and well thought out. pity it wasn't in the original.
vanityhiggins01 3 months ago 5
U fucking fuck
asdasdasd123ify 3 months ago
Wow, that was really deep. I know how to re-think my whole life... oh wait were can I get Miller Genuine Draft?
sentryzero 4 months ago 6
woah. this is really a good scene. why didnt they keep it in the movie?
benzinhuhn 4 months ago
@benzinhuhn my guess is it would anger the Christian community even further, that 2 minutes saying that Hell is abstract concept of man own creations, not a place for sinners that can never be forgiven is a lie, it is throwing out a maybe half the christain teaching out the window.
Really there are debate if Hell actually exists and just Heaven and how that would effect the Christian view.
Or it would have made Azrael look better and feel sorry for him.
demecowen 3 months ago 8
@demecowen true. although i guess that in a movie where christianity is taken apart into pieces this one scene doesn´t seem that important to me. But talking only on a "movie-level"; I think they should have kept it in the movie cause it gives Azrael a kind of understandable reason to do the things he does. oh well xD not the first great scene that got cut out .. at least it´s on youtube.
benzinhuhn 3 months ago
@demecowen You missed the point.
He says Evil is an abstract.
Evil is created by ones mind.
Hell is the absence of God...in essence...we're in hell...and most people in it suffer because they can't come to grips with the reasons they make the decisions they do...
Then again...there are lots of people that pass judgement on others in this world, so by that regard...he is not absent...
I'm being totally sarcastic when I say that...but...
You probably know what I mean...
SFIII8510 1 month ago
that shouldnt have been cut it made him sound almost reasonable.
IamAngeline 4 months ago
Holy shit, I synced this scene up to watch?v=oVOONyMkgKk
but I lost the awesome timing
xoxgodofgodsgodxx 4 months ago
@xoxgodofgodsgodxx
0:00 to 0:03 works pretty well though
xoxgodofgodsgodxx 4 months ago
Holy shit, I synced this scene up to watch?v=oVOONyMkgKk
but I lost the awesome timing
xoxgodofgodsgodxx 4 months ago
Why oh fucking why did he cut that? This is even better than the parking lot rant.
Porly62 4 months ago
This is a really good scene.. I wonder why it was left out
kaelwinters 5 months ago
one of the most interesting lines in any movie, wish they kept it
mmarchese17 5 months ago
Too bad they cut this scene, it really completed Jason Lee's character and was possibly the most thought provoking scene in the movie. But I suppose I can see why they cut it, you never know what kind of a reaction the audience will have.
s5b678 5 months ago
Yea this will sound a BIT TOO WIRED, but for the past few weeks I've been watching this clip atleast 10-12 times a week. Right before I go to sleep.....
I said 10-12 times because some nights I watch it twice.
RaafiUTube1 5 months ago
in the end jason says"i rather not exist then go back to that". thats heavy.very heavy.it means the suffering was so bad that he prefers not to exist!!!!!
erezlev 5 months ago
This slightly reminds of the scene with Samuel L. Jackson in Pulp fiction.
SignedWithBlood 5 months ago
The messed up part is that he brings up a very good point here. Most cynics argue that a God who sends people to Hell couldn't possibly be a merciful one, and yet this is the same God that would forgive any atrocity you could possibly have ever committed if only you ask. That's all you have to do: ask. You mean to tell me that doesn't sound like a merciful God to you?
stomyn 5 months ago
@stomyn But it is more than simply asking. With asking comes faith God exists. And with faith comes devotion. On top of that, faith is believing without having any proof or reason to. And so in order to save oneself, you are being forced to devote yourself to something that there is no proof to exist. And humans tend to be very realist with most things. Humans want proof and explanations. So by "asking" to be saved, you are defying what is natural for humans. And thats what it isn't so merciful.
druvirus 5 months ago
@druvirus really? because I really never had ay problem with it, hell I've had a harder time imagining a world where God doesn't exist as opposed to one where he does. Not to mention our ancestors never really seemed to have a problem with it. If you really think about it, the whole "it doesn't make sense for there to be a higher power" ideal is actually a rather recent development in human history, so to say it's against human nature to beleive in God really doesn't add up.
stomyn 5 months ago
@stomyn Our ancestors also believed the world was flat. And that we were the center of the universe. There's a lot of things we once believed that have been phased out because .. well .. we learned more. We once were confused about why it rained. Or what the big, bright ball in the sky was. And guess what? We no longer believe the sun is a god with his chariot, racing across the sky. Why? Because we found out what the sun actually is. So .. yeah .. it actually does add up.
druvirus 5 months ago
Comment removed
druvirus 5 months ago
@stomyn And, actually, it isn't something new. The idea has been around since Plato's time. While it was commonly believed some form of higher existence was out there, the concept of there not being one was heard of. Do you really want to go over a list of things that were once believed to be true but are now proven false? I mean, aside from blood-letting and using leeches to cure illness. Drinking mercury was a common practice to try and gain immortality but it doesn't quite work.
druvirus 5 months ago
@stomyn Human nature is to try to use logic to solve problems. This comes directly from our ancestors. We find a problem, we solve it. In that sense, they saw rain but had no way to find out what did it .. so they made up some stories. They had no idea why they existed, so they made up stories. The further along in technology we got, the more we tried to discover things. We dissected animals and humans to figure out how they work. We keep questioning and figuring things out. Its human nature.
druvirus 5 months ago
@druvirus and yet, despite all the "proof" that keeps popping up over the past few decades that God "doesn't exist", there are still over a billion people dedicating their lives to Him, holding on to their beleifs, despite their "human nature" telling them He doesn't exist
stomyn 5 months ago
@stomyn Yup. A mass form of insanity that is culturally accepted. It's an amazing phenomenon. If anybody else were to claim that an otherworldly being that can't be seen, heard, or touched and had magic powers was bringing people to another dimension after they died .. he would be locked up in a big, comfy room. But get a billion people to say the same thing and suddenly its "real".
druvirus 5 months ago
@druvirus ever think that there is a reason that said belief has lasted this long?
stomyn 5 months ago
@stomyn Several reasons. One is that children are indoctrinated at an early age. They're taught from a tender, impressionable age what to believe and how to believe it .. and this persists into later years. Another is fear; of death, of eternal misery, of their loved ones simply being gone. People don't want to believe they die and then they just poof. Some are scared of the idea of "hell' so they take the safe route and go along with being "saved". Some have feelings of religiosity.
druvirus 5 months ago
@stomyn If you want to go with the "long term belief in something must mean its true" concept, you're following the wrong religion. I would go with Hinduism which has been around longer. Judaism would be another possibility. Or you can go even further back to other polytheistic traditions. If beliefs in those have lasted longer than Christianity then doesn't that mean there's a reason it has?
druvirus 5 months ago
@stomyn Yeah, it's called brainwashing, and nobody who has ever been brainwashed thinks of themselves that way. The people who believe despite all the "proof" as you put it are clearly an example of that. We are simply poorly evolved, we fear the dark, we fear death, and so we make up things to comfort us and it;s easier when it's spoon fed to you from an early age
TheLydianRocks 5 months ago
damnit, i'm PISSED they left this out of the finished film. that was fucking amazing.
drewhadou 5 months ago
I love Jason Lee--Damn...
vetdetta 5 months ago
I think it takes away from the light hearted "black comedy" feel of the movie, therefore removed. It's quite a powerful scene, but can you imagine the OUTCRY that would come out against this movie if this scene hadn't been cut? It's more or less exposing the true doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church. To me anyway.
ThesmokeNmirrorsHQ 5 months ago
This guy kinda got screwed when they cut this scene. I mean, DANG it's good!
Demithegoddess 5 months ago
I'm curious...you guys think it's true? One way or another...
almostblue22 6 months ago
@almostblue22 I totally do, the Nicean council meeting in 'remaking' their current Christianity stated humans made hell more or less, hence if they chose a God to become a demon that Heaven had to make it so. It was a really convoluted meeting so forgive me for the tl;dr version, but in that one tiny meeting they stated the Heavenly law was decided by man in aspects of Hell and Demons.
CrowDreams 5 months ago
@almostblue22 in a twisted kind of way, the most sense I have ever heard concerning religion and Heaven came from this movie, from this rant, the fact that Jesus had brothers and sisters, even the whole "better to have ideas than beleifs" bit.
stomyn 5 months ago
Probably got banned because it's proof that the way most religions see evil is bullshit.
babybubbly 6 months ago
Jason Lee FTW. Awesome scene that should've stayed in the movie but because of it's extreme enlightenment it isn't. Sadface.
ashbekind 6 months ago
I really love this scene they should have kept it in there.
ilikeblondie 6 months ago
Jason Lee really played his part well and i feel he was under-utilized throughout the movie he could have made it better having more scenes/lines
PUCKEREDSTARFISHMAN 6 months ago
MAAAAANN! this would have been one of my favourite scenes! I'd always prefer something with morally blurred lines- something to think about- and not just the cliché, old, vapid, 'Good guy kills, but for greater good (government, America, Democracy, ad infinitum)' This may not have been any real mind-f***, but it still adds depth!
AscendingAshTree 7 months ago
@AscendingAshTree I agree with you. The morally blurred lines really do give one pause to think about such things, and such things in any movie really leave alot open for one to ponder in any form be it a basis for fictional writings or true to life scenarios
PUCKEREDSTARFISHMAN 6 months ago
There is absolutely no reason to cut this scene from the movie, other than to keep the audience from identifying completely with the "bad guy." Movie goers need to be TOLD who to root for, and if this scene were to remain in the finished product, it could potentially undermine the entire film. Azreal reveals his true reason for the plot, and sorry to say it....I can see his point.
zcal0221 7 months ago
The film loses a LOT without this scene. Without it, Azrael is just a nefarious demon that gets killed. This gives him character. Shame it was cut... a real shame.
AngerIsOurGift 7 months ago
I really think this would have been cool in the film. I am happy to have been able to see it. I think this would have rounded out the story more than the bloodletting towards t the end.
TDKinTOKYO 7 months ago
...That was fucking awesome.
54356789 8 months ago
This should never have been cut from the film.
dragonofblood 8 months ago 3
Azrael actually isnt a demon. Hes the angel of death.
deneco4 9 months ago 2
@deneco4 in the movie loki was the angel of death
11kreider 8 months ago
You know, they could have kept this in if they maybe cut out a few dozen sex refrences.
louthegiantcookie 9 months ago 30
@louthegiantcookie and that whole scene with the poop demon.
I would rather have my mind blown by this amazing speech, than watch people run from a semi sentient ball of feces.
repogirl20 2 months ago in playlist repogirl20's favorites
I want to start war against God!
ironshadow89 9 months ago
@ironshadow89 Oh hey, a fucking retard who didn't understand the scene at all.
ataraxia60 8 months ago
@ataraxia60 Yawn* You mad bro ?
ironshadow89 8 months ago
@ironshadow89 You don't have to stretch out your disgusting mouth, I can already tell you are retarded. There's no need at all to aid me.
ataraxia60 8 months ago
@ataraxia60 But you keep coming back :D
ironshadow89 8 months ago
@ironshadow89 I'm not but you've just given yourself the worst title possible,douchebag troll
EMERALDanimations 6 months ago
@EMERALDanimations :(
ironshadow89 6 months ago
This is what shows how great a writer Kevin Smith is.
newzikiwi 9 months ago 2
The dialog in Kevin Smith movies is awesome and Jason Lee probably spits out the best lines.
FerretsForMe123 9 months ago 29
Awesome is not enough to describe this scene
Kaprah91 9 months ago 3
they should have left that in it was awesome.
privittrobert 9 months ago
wow i see why this was deleted.
im impressed
nephozo 9 months ago
The actor's voice is both appropriate and annoying. He sound like an angelic fag, so the dialog fit, but he cannot express anger.
AbsentiaeAddoAccendo 10 months ago
Wow that totally completed the sceen. The edited version is rather shitty and emotionless.
doomrot 10 months ago 3
this is just like how in stand up some jokes u just can't tell because the recation its too uncertin this being a powerful clip puts off the vibe that this isn't just comdey but something more
JRyaBoi 10 months ago
This really should have been in the movie. It would have encouraged many people to rethink their views on hell and the afterlife, and how that affects their views and behaviors here on Earth. Even if 9 out of 10 people would watch it sail over their heads, at least that one person would think.
heysteve84 10 months ago
I wish there was a sort of like button, or a kind of right button
sodonewithearth 10 months ago
i dont understand it, why would people want to be punished? doesnt make sense to me, but maybe im stupid
evansmith4401 11 months ago
@evansmith4401 There's a book that deals with that. In it, all of the souls tortured in Hell escape when Satan decides he's done with it. They all arrive at the real that houses the imbodiment of Death--not knowing where else to go. Most of them are surprisingly nice and normal. But they belived that they had done something to wrong to ever deserve heaven--like one woman who cheated on her husband--and so they're souls subconciously choose hell. Sorry that was long! :)
repogirl20 11 months ago
@repogirl20 oh i see, is that actually from the film or is that from some catholic doctrine. didnt he say is this clip hell was just the absence of God, but the people decde they needed to be pushed further? what i dont understand is that he said they were gluttons for punishment because they believed God woud never forgive them, so does that mean that He,sorry, She would, if they stopped being so self obsessed when they were in Hell?
evansmith4401 11 months ago
@evansmith4401 I don't know. But Hell was first said to be only for punishing those that stood against her in the first war of heaven. So I think that before humans decided that they could never be forgiven--she would have. She seems very nice to me. :)
repogirl20 10 months ago
@repogirl20
She didn't forgive Bartleby and Loki for ONE drunk night until the very end of the movie, though. She banished them to Wisconsin forever and denied entrance to heaven. Just because Loki acts like a drunken ass on the advice of his asshole of a friend. Old Testament wrath indeed...
Lamporre 10 months ago 2
@evansmith4401 Well people can get consumed by their own guilt, especially when they believe they cannot be forgiven.
LingLingRox 10 months ago
@evansmith4401 You have to remember how people were back in the day. The world was pretty much ran by the church, it's not like it is today. People went to church and believed everything they were told. Stealing is a crime because our laws say it is and its wrong, back then it was in the bible and you would get your hands cut off. Bad people feared death because they knew they would pay the price in the long run.
sirsteveo 8 months ago
@evansmith4401
has nothing to do with want to be punished but rather with your peace of mind. God,Allah or whatever doesn't decide if you go to "hell" or "heaven", your soul decides if you can die peacefully or not
Decat90 7 months ago
This is amazing. Should have been left in, but like the user above mentions, I understand why it was cut.
jessegladsaget 11 months ago
Damn, they cut it so perfectly, I didn't even missed something in the original.
Armuotas 11 months ago
One of THE best monologues I've ever seen. Muchos Kudos. I wish more film directors had the balls to draw attention to one of the most important and controversial topics of life, human morality and the negative influence of God/religion in society. Pretty self evident considering I'm commenting on a deleted scene thanks to the frail nature of religious belief. Without God, life is everything.
a7xdude87 11 months ago
this so would have explained a lot in the movie, wish they had kept it....
rah01kah 11 months ago
Imagine if Edward Norton or Heath Ledger were Azrael in this scene! This really should have been in the movie!
bigjew899 11 months ago
WHY WASN'T THIS IN THE MOVIE?!
Domatophobic 1 year ago
People need to be told what to do, whats right or wrong, because if everything is accepted, reality has no meaning - no purpose. If it was okay for everyone to do anything, morally or otherwise, it would all seem to pointless. Imagine a world where its absolute chaos, no rules, no bounds. Life is meaningless if you dont have any reference points, rules to follow, limitations, boundaries, taboos, theres no way to measure your life, and no point to be here
RandomGenericComment 1 year ago 5
To be honest, after that speech I was expecting Jay TO SAY SOMETHING STUPID AND FUNNY
He woulda probably said "SO WHAT THE FUCK IS EVIL AGAIN?"
Dragontohancock 1 year ago
There are only a handful of movie dialogue that actually shake me at a subscious level and scare the crap out of me. Azraels speech about how human's created a torturous 'hell', the parking lot scene when loki accuses bartelbe of sounding like the lucifer and watch the movie Sneakers (Robert Redford) and listen to the server room discussion he has with Ben Kingsley on how society operates not on reality but the perception of it.
PetShopMod 1 year ago 5
that is one of the most powerful scenes ever created, if you ask me the entire film was worthy of oscars, even without this scene in it
jakeriding53 1 year ago
i do like this scene, and it is good to hear peopes philosophies, but this scene if you really listen is trying to say that man has constructed hell to be fire, and burning sulfure with helish screams. in other words it seems to me that azrael is mad because hell wasnt that bad of a place until man constructed it to be what it is now from their imaginations, and their ideas. he seems to be saying that he could handle the absence of god rather then: the abscence of god, and our man conjured hell.
tazukii 1 year ago
@tazukii I think he's mad for the simple reason that the fallen angels have been blamed for the plight of humanity when in fact it's man's imagination which creates HIS hell for himself. It seems to me Azrael is sick of being blamed for humanities gift of FREE WILL, specifically the part where they don't choose God. The rest is basically man's creation of suffering and punishment for having made that choice. He's telling us that WE are the inspiration for what THEY can create on our behalf.
JustinLB82 1 year ago
Holy shit, why was this scene cut from the movie? This is some of the best dialogue I've ever heard! Kevin Smith is capable of some absolutely brilliant stuff.
superchief86 1 year ago
Hmmmm.....I remember watching this some time ago on the nets, but I believe there was a little more to it. When he throws the gun to one of the triplets, he then goes on to show Bethany the true nature of hell (it was an unfinished shot). He then closes with, I'd rather not exist then go back to that (that's why the cut looks a little funky at the end).
mgt247 1 year ago
Humens ARE so capable of such things. Hitler,Mosalini,Charles Manson and so on and so on.
Patrickdraven 1 year ago
@Patrickdraven Humen? Mosalini?
...Google.
Gokira666 1 year ago
aww... i almost forgot about this movie! im a real sucker of those philosophical thrillers. now i need to rewatch this one for sure!
another movie with religious/philosophical questions i highly recommend, is "Jacobs Ladder"
MrMushroom123 1 year ago
@twist109 most of those movies are just childhood indoctrination. people call me a conspiracy nut all the time bc of all of the symbolism I see in them but some of it is so obvious even my 9 year old nephew notices it. I believe this line was removed from the movie bc its actually true. As painful as that is for ppl to accept, there are exceptions, but human beings, including myself are just animals, and unfortunately an entire generation has been sacrificed bc of this.
UnderDawg1205 1 year ago
Best.Scene.Ever! Shame it got deleted, it makes everything so damn clear. Lee is doing a kick-ass job, letting Azrael's rage and frustration show through.
But then again, the entire movie is made of awesome. Besides, I found it very faith-affirming for myself, especially the portrayal of God in the end. I mean, really...God is a happy, free-spirited girl, running around, staring at the wonders of the world with wide eyes? Best portrayal of God I saw so far.
Pardan 1 year ago
I dont think ive agreed with a line in a movie so much. Humans are evil, they never own up to their sins or take personal responsibility for anything. They are shallow, arrogant souls who do not deserve what god gives them and they are always looking for salvation outside of themselves. Call me evil, but it is such a slap in the face to personal responsibility, and to top it all off, they blame it all on the devil and/or demons. Humanity needs to grow up and stop being babies.
UnderDawg1205 1 year ago 7
epic!!! the second best scene of the movie! the first is of course the parking lot!
jason lee is huge here- one of the best lines in the history of cinema!!!!!!!!!!!
erezlev 1 year ago 2
if this scene was in the film Dogma would've been rolling on oscars
jakeriding53 1 year ago
It's a pity this scene was cut, as it defines Azrael's whole motivation. Without it, he just seems like a demon doing bad things. With it, there's a whole deeper meaning.
aussiejed1 1 year ago 74
'I've spent ions, privy to the flames, inhaling the decay, hearing the wail of the damned! I KNOW-WAT EFFECT, SUCH HORRORS HAVE-ON THE DELICATE PSYCHE OF AN ANGELIC BEING!" He has every right to be angry at us.
PetShopMod 1 year ago 4
Man, what happened to him? This was such an awesome scene now he's doing My Name Is Earl!?! WTF
gibbsies 1 year ago
That was GREAT. That was one of the best View Askew pieces. Why would they cut that?
panicfreak317 1 year ago
See if God really did exist in the way people think he does: as an all loving, forgiving kind of guy.
Then he would simply forgive you if you said sorry, but as azrael pointed out here people seem to have this entire Psycho drama built up.
Man it's great to be an athiest and be free of this facade.
sirAthrus 1 year ago 3
@sirAthrus not everyone brother. some people make up the so called spycho drama but not all of us who believe in god do that.
Ocelot923 1 year ago
@Ocelot923 Yeah but as history teaches us, it only takes a few people to make things, bad or good happen.
sirAthrus 1 year ago
wow. y did they delete this scene? jason does an amazing job. plus the voice effect was fucking awesome
TheKhaos1369 1 year ago
this was a good cut, but what an epic scene
oiat 1 year ago
they dont know nothing~!!!!!!its in our belief!
MrH20rybon 1 year ago
@MrH20rybon
?
What arts thou talking about?
BlankPicketSign 1 year ago
i think the monologue was too deep and lots of viewers would have hated seeing that...im pretty sure the movie got lots of bad rep when the movie came out anyways but this would have put the bow on it
kinkycutter 1 year ago
so, that means bethany... is part black?
FYSFAN12 1 year ago
it is a shame this was deleted...
Pemphetru 1 year ago 3
why would they leave this out!?
bastardluv 1 year ago 2
they cut this out cause its true and they didnt want to offend anyone and because it was too long
KevinHomicide 1 year ago
huge scene ! "evil is an abstract"= another epic line ( second only to the parking lot
scene)/
erezlev 1 year ago 2
Jason Lee kicks ass in this scene. Understandable why it was cut, though-- just because it was a little *too* philosophical for a comedy.
toastgirl87 1 year ago 67
@toastgirl87 I'd say it's a little harsh on the organized religions.
Jontish316 1 year ago
@toastgirl87 Maybe they could have made it into an acceptable scene if they had Jay respond with something catchy or something funny.
AbnoCreations 1 year ago
@toastgirl87 i just wish smith made more movies with the intelligent and razor sharp social commentary that he did with his earlier films. i know he's said that he can't make those movies anymore because it's no longer what he knows...but i know that somewhere deep inside he still has it in him. and i'm hoping red state is even half as good as this
crackedout23 7 months ago
the whole joke, that is god, is really pathetic
SmilingThruChaos 1 year ago
Freaking spectactular bit of philosophy, dressed up as role playing.
ShadesOfKnight 1 year ago
How did this not stay in the film???
Lamporre 1 year ago 4
They beat me to it.
Geert365 1 year ago
fuckin a performance by lee...
but i can see why it was cut... guess it messed with the pace of the flick
KahlerHahn 1 year ago
I have no idea why this was cut. This is a really good speech!
Metamorp8 1 year ago 2
This is my favorite movie in the View Askewniverse. Affleck and Lee's rants were awesome.
07azunyan 1 year ago
omg is he earl?
TrollforJustice 1 year ago
@TrollforJustice no, it's Brodie Bruce..recognize mf
dcthevd 1 year ago
@dcthevd He's both.
07azunyan 1 year ago
@07azunyan yeah, i was just joking. i pretty much watch anything w/ jason lee hoping he'll be as funny as he was in mallrats
dcthevd 1 year ago
@dcthevd no Banky Edwards
11Sweeneytodd 1 year ago
@TrollforJustice yes he is :)
mukkabu 1 year ago
too much big talk for main stream audiences. people don't like to hear about how stupid they are.
boognishishere 1 year ago
why wasnt that in the movie?!!!
shaepsycho 1 year ago
why was this cut?
Selana 1 year ago
@Selana
Most likely they wanted to clip a few minutes out of the movie and picked something that they felt didn't add anything. For some reason,(Cough*DVD SALES*Cough) they always seem to pick the best scenes to cut.
NBluth 1 year ago
this was at least as good as (if not BETTER than) everything else in the movie. i wish it hadn't been deleted.
plasshopper 1 year ago 2
It pains me that this scene was deleted, I think it gives Asreal too much empathy from the viewer though which may have been why it was cut
dontkillmeful 1 year ago
3 reasons why this was cut:
1: In a movie that is already over 2 hours, KS likely wanted to excise as much secondary material as he could to cut down on the running time.
2: This is a fairly heady rant for maintsream audiences in a movie that is already chock full of heady subject matter. More of the same would've likely caused most audiences to tune out. Sad but true.
3: KS ultimately decided to keep Hell as vague as a concept as possible in Dogma.
Still, this rant rules!
PaladinHero 1 year ago
damn this is really good! I wonder why Kevin decided to cut it out...
thekidzcantfathom 1 year ago
Damn...Jason Lee should have gotten an Oscar just for these 2 minutes....Kept in the movie or not, this is a great scene.
Emunguia85 1 year ago
WHO THE FUCK IN THERE RIGHT MIND CUT THIS OUT OF THE MOVIE ! ! !
LordOfTheObvious 1 year ago
why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why would Kevin Smith ever delete this scene from his movie it is by far the best scene in any movie I have ever seen him make and its DELETED?!?! someone please this explain to me?
karn33333 1 year ago
Genius. Genius!!!
TheReparedWings 1 year ago
Thats deep... evil is abstract consept
madhippy3 1 year ago
That was a pretty bad ass scene imo...
mrzergmrzergmrzerg 1 year ago
on second thought, I think it should have been left in. even if you can't understand it the first time, it gives Azrael stronger motivation for what he's trying to do.
Rathause 1 year ago
@Rathause The spitting was good too for ppl that didnt really care about the complicated stuff
madhippy3 1 year ago
I can see why it was cut. it's very cool, but somewhat difficult to follow.
Rathause 1 year ago
That's some deep shit man, never seen it before, but not funny enough for the movie I bet right
VLOGSPHERE 1 year ago
Heavy
farmercout10 1 year ago
This whole movie is another way of saying that belief has a lot of power and should be wielded responsibly. This epic scene would have made an epic film much more... erm... epic.
jacksawild 1 year ago
Evil is a human made creation. For if their were no humans, would their be evil? The answer is no, as temptation towards evil would not exist,
KC8231 1 year ago 3
@KC8231 A question raised when I saw I Am Legend is I guess, equal to what you just said. If you were the last person on earth, there would be no responcibility, evil, guilt, or any other human made idea, because they are all based around each other, and they are all an intersubjective and most of all, a circularly reasoned concept. (You're evil because of x and x makes you evil.) The only thing they do to us is limit us in our existence. (Not english so some words might be incorrect.)
RogierViHarkema 1 year ago
Damn, this is a powerful scene.
johngalt200 1 year ago 2
This was bloody brilliant, they definitely should have left it in the movie.
lilshawty814 1 year ago
really love this deleted scene from Dogma Marvelously done by Jason Lee, Heads off Heheh
noscirenamra 1 year ago
(sits, speechless)
o.
m.
G.
MobileMsSeana 1 year ago
that speech was awsome, it makes perfect sense too. wow, its monday morning and my head is already caught up in the complexity of what i just watched, fucking brilliant
binkiie4dictator 1 year ago
This REALLY should have stayed in the final cut. It brings so much more light to his character.
roosterIX 1 year ago
i think they deleted it because what he was saying would go over to many poeple's head.
Many people dont realy listen to wat the actors are saying when they are watching a film. Anyone agree?
twist109 1 year ago 4
@twist109: Why the hell do you watch films if you don't listen to what the freaking actors have to say? Or should the writers just give on dialogue completely and make the actors just pull expressions to a series of emoticons?
barenakedfan87 1 year ago 3