Black Caviar takes out the Coolmore Lightning Stakes

[rcjs88]

carajo cmo la hacen correr a lso 6 dias, muy noble la yegua

[SvendBosanvovski]

@Shakira0806 Tomorrow she is back, bigger and better than ever. Rain is predicted, so the track with be dead to slow. She likes tha sting out of the ground. They won't want to knock her around first up, but she should win by about 5 lens against this lot.

[scenicsilver]

RACING IN ENGLAND IS CORRUPT AND UNFAIR. PACEMAKERS ARE SHIT AND SO IS THE RACING IN ENGLAND. THE HORSES ARE SOFT AND THE SO ARE THE JOCKEYS

[taykyl001]

@Shakira0806 Shes back in about 6 wks, if she can do that, without any probs, she will make the opp look like a walk in the park in the UK. The scary thing she has come back even bigger LOL, I hope that is a good thing. Thumbs up for this girl.

[taykyl001]

@Shakira0806 Why in the UK they need pacemakers, Oh what a joke they tried with SYT he lost, he didnt have one, he won. In Oz we dont use Stablemates to encourage the champions, they just dont need it. I dont know the times that frankel runs, but seriously 1 Tickle on her (BC) she moveves likes a freight train, Frankel they have to whip him like crap to make sure he wins. Should I book my ticket for the UK yet. I think so.

[forsoup]

Frankel has been a bit unlucky because he hasn't had a true pace set in any of his big races this season, so he hasn't had chance to produce a winning 'hold-up' ride. I think if a pacemaker set some good fractions he would cruise up to the 2f pole and explode away from the field.

Do you guys think there is much chance Black Caviar will try the 1 mile trip at some point, next season?

[SvendBosanvovski]

@forsoup There is speculation about her moving up in distance, but hard to see her going up to a mile. She is too brilliant. Her sire Bel Espirit raced over that distance, but with less success. She will stay in Australian in the Spring now, according to local reports, and probably race in the UK next year. It is unlikely she will meet Frankel, which is a pity. Her great rival Hay List wont race this year, but 3yos Sepoy and Helmet promise a great deal and are likely to get to the UK. 

[taykyl001]

@forsoup Why does Frankel need a Pacemaker, is it because he has trouble winning alone. BLACK CAVIAR does not need a pacemaker, shes does all the work on her own, meaning what ever comes in her way, she will b happy to win. She hates to loose.

[forsoup]

Frankel would beat this filly. His cruising speed is even better, and the length of his stride means he would put this to bed within 3 or 4 strides and he would not be for catching.

I love Black Caviar, but who has she really beaten?

Get he over to Europe and give herself the chance to become the greatest and find out the answer.

[SvendBosanvovski]

@forsoup You are dreaming. He "cruised" through the first 5f of the Sussex in about 61 seconds. They go quicker at the Bong Bong picnic races. In all of his wins he has soundered along in front, unmolested and then either hung on (St James Palace), wobbled around like an old lush (Guineas) or charged downhill (Sussex) at the end of a dawdling stroll. The times he has run are not indicative of brilliant speed. Every time BC has stepped out, she has set the course on fire.

[forsoup]

@SvendBosanvovski Everyone keeps mentioning these times that Franke has posted. IMO, they are just completely irrelevant. The Guineas time was never going to be quick, Newmarket had ridiculous winds blowing against the horses and given that Frankel had no cover at all in making all the running, his performance was outstanding. These are horses, not robots- they only ever do enough to win races, they don't have a set level to perform to every time.

[SvendBosanvovski]

@forsoup No, they are not robots - agreed. But spectacular claims are made for Frankel's cruising speed, and his dazzling sprinting ability. So, if we want to test those claims we look at the times he is running, because speed is distance travelled over time. He is currently being rated about 3 lens superior to Black Caviar by Timeform UK, which is plain ridiculous. The only objective way to assess their respective merits is to see how fast each has run.

[fowlergod09]

Frankel will beat Black Caviar over 6,7 or a mile she could not live with his turn of pace

[scrappy5011]

@fowlergod09 what planet are you on pal?

[SvendBosanvovski]

@fowlergod09 Well, we dont know how she would run a mile, but Frankel, on disclosed form would have little hope of beating her over 6f (1200m). She has run the final 200m of her races on rain affected tracks in about 10.5 secs. Frankel went a little quicker at Goodwood, where the straight goes downhill. He has run 4 times on a good track, all in very average time (check Racing Post). They will never meet, because his connection would be too frightened of racing her in a sprint.

[taykyl001]

No Hay List is a good horse, he just car'nt beat her in the 4 starts between them.

[CaptnDash]

And totally ignored in all of this is poor Hay List! A great horse in its own right and a winner on any other day of the week. No shame in coming second to Black Caviar.

[Wheels1974]

I cannot believe people are comparing BC with RM the reason BC is the best Thoroughbred in the world today is because she is the BEST in the world with out a doubt and after her win in the TJ Smith Stakes giving HEY LIST 4 to 5 lengths lead with 300 meters to go and still won by 3 lengths eased up on the line was AMAZING. I always thought she would run 1400 early but after the TJ Smith she will be better over a mile+ which is SCARY. Who ever mentioned RM will beat BC has rocks in there head.

[Vlisady]

Idk what those two below me are bickering about but i would like to make a statement about this video: ......have you EVER seen a better gallop on a horse!!!??? BAHHHHH gorgeous!!!

[dan197929]

they wont be making meat pies out of this horse

[Wheels1974]

I found this info in a article while doing a little research, I then looked it up on our stud book and it's TOTALLY accurate. It's quoted below.

"What is not widely known is that she is channelling the great Vain's genes.

Vain just happens to be Black Caviar's great-grandfather on one side and great-great-grandfather on the other side. In breeding terms this is known as a three by four cross of Vain."

Just type (VAIN AND BLACK CAVIAR SHARE GEANS) in Google to read the full article. Cheers

[SvendBosanvovski]

@Wheels1974 Iglesia's time was set on New Year's Day, 2001, when the track was lightning fast. Black Caviar could have won the Newmarket by another three lengths at least, which is equivalent to about .6 secs. She could have run under 1m 7sec, if ridden out. With 58 kgs on her back, that is clearly the fastest we have ever witnessed down the straight six. A magnificent performance!!

[kopkingstevie8]

@SvendBosanvovski sorry i was just reading your comment there i totally agree she could have won by more yesterday but 3 lenghts in no more than 2 seconds for a racehorse in full flight i dont know were you would get 6 seconds from a human could walk 3 lenghts of a horse in 6 seconds lol

[SvendBosanvovski]

@kopkingstevie8 I'm pleased we are in agreement, but you have misread what I wrote. 3 lens is roughly equivalent to 0.6 sec, not 6 secs. This is handicapping 101. The 0.2 secs per length is a basic rule of thumb, of course. If yiou are really keen, you can apply the laws of physics to get the exact relationship, but that can wait for another day.

[kopkingstevie8]

@SvendBosanvovski sorry i was just reading your comment there i totally agree she could have won by more yesterday but 3 lenghts in no more than 2 seconds for a racehorse in full flight i dont know were you would get 6 seconds from a human could walk 3 lenghts of a horse in 6 seconds lol

[Wheels1974]

@kopkingstevie8 I just thought I would explain something because you wrote and I quote "3 lengths is no more than 2 seconds" That's TOTALLY incorrect. What im about to explain gives a accurate estimate as to how many lengths the average Thoroughbred will cover per second on a Good/Dead. The average works out to be 6 lengths per second. When you said "3 lengths is no more then 2 seconds" You now know in 2 seconds your average Thoroughbred will cover a average of 12 lengths. Hope that helps.

[kopkingstevie8]

@Wheels1974 sorry but the incorrect 1 here is you when i said 3 lenghts in 2 seconds i wasnt trying to be tottally accurate do you know what a lenghts is? have you ever ridden a horse? i have ridden throughbred racehorses at paul nicholls racing yard since i have been 14 years old riding out every day after school and full time since iv been 17 i can put my life on it a racehorse does not extend its full action 12 times in 2 seconds and thats a lenght and thats a fact! so u can google all u want

[SvendBosanvovski]

@kopkingstevie8 A length has been standardised to 2.7 metres. Obviously, the time taken to cover that distance will depends upon the horse's speed. They go slower over longer distances, so will take longer. 600 metres is 222.2 lens. If BC ran it in, say, 33 secs, she would cover a len in .15 secs.

[Wheels1974]

@kopkingstevie8 Firstly when u say u were not trying to be totally accurate, u are not even close. You say and I quote "a racehorse does not extend its full action 12 times in 2 seconds and thats a lenght and thats a fact". YOUR WRONG on average the Thoroughbred will cover 6 lengths for each second so in 2 seconds the average will cover 12 lengths. Every single stride/length a Thoroughbred covers in full gallop equates to a average of 6 to 7 meters or a average of 17 meters covered per second.

[Wheels1974]

I'm sure your aware but forgot to mention that BC's win in the Newmarket was the quickest time in the Newmarkets history and she was held up towards the line.

BC will also have the highest ratings a mare has ever had in the HISTORY of racing, her ratings will sky rocket to around the 135-138 I would imagine.

[bgardiner2000]

@Wheels1974 Her official Timeform rating is now 135, the 9th highest rated sprinter of all-time and 1lb behind Manikato. The interesting thing for me is that it's unlikely that she will ever improve on that, given that Moody has stated that the Newmarket would be the one and only time she would race under handicap conditions. It's unlikely she would out-perform her Newmarket rating at set weights or WFA. Though in saying that, I still think we are yet to see the best of Black Caviar.

[mohawk548]

One horse can beat her flat.. the mighty ROCKET MAN ! Check it out oz.

[bgardiner2000]

@mohawk548 Rocket Man is another excellent Australian sprinter. However, if you run a line through Ortensia in the HK Sprint Black Caviar is about 4 lengths better than Rocket Man over 6F. And that was from a race where she was eased up (Patinack Farm Classic). I hope they never run her on dirt or on an artificial surface, but on turf he wouldn't blow wind up her bum ;)

[mohawk548]

@bgardiner2000 One question Though, Sir/Mdm. What was her best time ever over 1200m ? Dosn't matter she could out-run horses in 5-20 lengths.. fact is, she hasn't run in an international G1 sprint event..! Running on turf or on dirt surface makes NO difference to a genuine good sprinting Horse like the Rocket Man. Still, No excuse if she were to be smitten by the occasion, if at all prevails. We're waiting in anticipation.. 

[SvendBosanvovski]

@mohawk548 She has just run 1m 8.71 on a dead track at Randwick in winning the the Group 1 T J Smith. That is about .4 sec outside the track record where horses have been racing for 150 years. She ran down Hay List, who is as good as Rocket Man, after giving him 4 lens start at the top of the rise.

[SvendBosanvovski]

@mohawk548 The Randwick 1200 is tougher than most, because the track rises just after the turn. Black Caviar is doing things on tracks where other great sprinters have gone before (some you will know), and she is in a different zone to them. Alverta, which ran 3rd in the Darley July Cup in the UK last year, was beaten 8lens by BC today! Alverta left Kinsdale King and the best Eurpopeans in her wake and was a len behind Equiano and Starspangledbanner.

[bgardiner2000]

@mohawk548 Time is important when ur in gaol.This is why form lines are used. RM ran 1:11.28 when winning the Golden Shaheen. BC ran 1:07.96 eased down on a dead track in the Patinack. International sprint events?? Sorry, not fact at all. The Lightening & the Newmarket? Both of these are legs of the world sprint series. The main reason the internationals don't go there is because Aust sprinters are so strong (RM). Dirt tracks are good for car-parks. Good horses shouldn't be subjected to them.

[mohawk548]

@bgardiner2000 Dirt tracks are generally much slower, albeit the Golden shaheen ; you can't compare horses' timing under different track condition ! Your remarks on Dirt tracks lacked Knowledge and derogatory in essence.Dirt tracks obviously had it's 'pros' on the flip side; which had been widely used in the US,Europe, Korea, the great Dubai race.. Dirt tracks had by nature, offered a more level ' field' to even the outer-most horses in racing and can minimize jockeys injury when fall.

[bgardiner2000]

@mohawk548 Ummm... you were the one that asked for time comparisons?? Remember I said "Time is only important when you're in gaol." Sorry, but my comments on dirt tracks are kowledge-based. Take some time to review the relative injury rates of dirt / artificial surfaces compared to turf, and you'll see why anti-inflammatory / pain killing medication has been propping up the t'bred industry in the states for years, as has Lasix.

[mohawk548]

@bgardiner2000 All i said was- Never compare Race time on DIFFERENT TRACK CONDITION ! Where and when did i say 'TIME' was not important??? Meanwhile, Kindly substantiate figures / statistics to back your claim of 'Injury Rate"; By which you expressly implied 'High' on Dirt / Artificial surfaces than that of Turf surface. I am doubtful you can !

[bgardiner2000]

@mohawk548 So you asked for a time comparison for horses that have never raced in the same country, knowing that comparisons of different tracks / conditions are worthless? I was the one that said time was not important. Formlines in this case are far more telling. And they put BC lengths ahead of other OS-based Australian sprinters. This is fact. People who don't understand form ratings shouldn't really make comments on them.

[mohawk548]

@bgardiner2000 * I was the one that said time was not important *

Time was not important ? Ever involved in Horse betting ?? Rarely is ignorance so succintly demonstrated ! Kiddo.Renown Punters all over the world used 6 Cardinal indicators to decide their bets,1 important indicator being the final posted TIME.. Supposedly You have 12 horses in a race, 5 of the horses are at their prime forms ; WHAT besides their 'formlines' do you need in calculation for a winning bet ?? #LOL

[bgardiner2000]

@mohawk548 U asked me for her best time over 6F as a way of demonstrating that RM had any hope of being comp against BC. Which he doesn't. You can talk about all kinds of tricks "renown punters" (I think u meant reknowned? which is ok as ur clearly Engl as a 2nd language) use when comparing times for horses running on the same track under the same or similar conditions with varying weights. But it doesn't change the fact, the formlines are clear. BC is at worst 4L better than RM over 6F.

[mohawk548]

@bgardiner2000 Is there a word as "reknown" ? (ask a teacher pls) Or are you actually schooled at all seriously? Beggar ( your moniker suggests ),stop further embarassing your halfwit besides exposing your fraud unwittingly ! Your mindless jibbering and bumbling lies ( your so-called "quotation" indicates) suit you fine to being someone who's associated with a Lobotomy in Conjunction with Castration. Sorry, I can't have any serious discourse with a halfwit LIAR, Get a life ! #LOL

[bgardiner2000]

@mohawk548 Riiiight.... maybe you should leave the big internet to grown ups.

[mohawk548]

@bgardiner2000 Beggar, you've #FAIL in the face of your country's screwed-up Education system. Shame on you ! ciao

[taykyl001]

@mohawk548 What ashame feel sorry for yr country. Apparently someone that cause alot of damages is finally dead. Oh well carnt win them all. GO BLACK CAVIAR. Karma some how always follows, funny that.

[mohawk548]

@taykyl001 ------------>ShitHead.  #LOL !

[mohawk548]

@bgardiner2000 Again, i've repeatedly ask that : Kindly substantiate figures / statistics to back your claim of 'Injury Rate"; By which you expressly implied INJURY RATE IS HIGHER on Dirt / Artificial surfaces than that of Turf surface. SUBSTANTIATE YOUR CLAIM,  PLEASE !

[bgardiner2000]

@mohawk548 Any idiot can use google and find a load of information on injury rates. As it seems that you are unable to do so, I will assist you. Have a look at bloodhorse. com... and I quote "According to the analysis for the two-year period, the catastrophic injury rate per 1,000 starts on dirt was 2.14; on turf, 1.74."

[mohawk548]

@bgardiner2000 Aust being ONE of the the trading grounds for thoroughbreds' descendants like many other countries, can only count their blessing in producing some of the finest race horses at times. In fact, Thoroughbred originated in England and and their ancestry can trace back to three foundation sires;

Thomas Darley, L.Godolphin and Cpt Robert Byerly. No dictatorial rule can ever claim with arrogance that they produce the current best horses, Esp when trading's concerned !

[Wheels1974]

If BC remains sound, it wont take long before ALL agree that BC is the greatest sprinter of all time that we know of to date, YES better then Vain over the true sprinting distance (1000 to 1200 meters)

BC should run in the Newmarket, I cannot see Moody pulling her out due to her 58kg weight penalty. After she does race in the Newmarket with a mighty 58kg and blows the rest of the field away by 2 lengths then tell me if you still consider Vain the benchmark of great sprinters.

[SvendBosanvovski]

@Wheels1974 Your judgement may be vindicated, but she has not done what he did in his amazing 3 year old season. His win in the 6f Craven A Stakes (now the Salinger), 7f Linlithgow (technically the Salinger) and the George Adams Mile (now the Emirates Stakes) were simply astonishing. He beat Black Onyx and Our Faith in the Linlithgow by 6 lens, eased up. BO won the Newmarket Hcp with 57.5 kg and two Doomben 10,000s, the second time carring 59 kgs. Our faith was a group 1 winner.

[SvendBosanvovski]

@Wheels1974 He won the George Adam with 10 lb (5kg) over weight for age. But his greatest win was the Craven A. He won by 12 lens eased up, running 6f on a slow track in 1m 9.8 secs, which is equivalent to 1m 9.6 for 1200m. He made a very talented sprinters such a Dual Choice and Balck Onyx look like Maiden Handicappers. BC may be his equal, but she still has a way to go.

[Wheels1974]

@SvendBosanvovski BC is without the BEST sprinter in the world thus far. BC could have won by 6+ lengths in the Newmarket with the 58kg, she could carry 60+kg and still have the same impact. IMO she is better then the GREAT VAIN and providing she remains sound, in time you will agree. Eventually Moody will step her up to 7f as for 8f I'm not sure at this stage. No point in raising the distance when she breaks her competitors hearts at 5f and 6f. She has yet to get out of second gear.

[SvendBosanvovski]

@Wheels1974 Yes, her win in the Newmarket was absolutely brilliant. Allowing for the weight, no horse has gone down the straight 6 faster. Final Card was credited with the first metric record after equalling Aurie Star's pacesetter of 1m7.8. Then came Brawny Sprit 1m 7.7, Gold Ace 1m 7.5, and Iglesia 1m 7.16. Others to run under the 1m 8secs have been Miss Penny Money, 1m 7.6 (53,5); Miss Andretti, 1m 7.7 (56kgs); and Isca, 1m 7.8 (52.5).

[scrappy5011]

@Wheels1974 Haha,2 lengths?She"ll demolish them by at least 5!This mare is from another planet-we"ll never see anything like this again.

[bgardiner2000]

@Wheels1974 I'm pretty sure the true benchmark is Abernant... then Dayjur / Vain / Manikato? In my opinion, I don;t think think there is a lot between them. However, I think that later in her career she will prove to be capable of things that Vain wasn't. I think she is a true sprinter-miler. Just the sort of horse that wins Cox Plates.

[Wheels1974]

Why compare the freakish Black Caviar to the mighty Vain who raced from 68-70 If you are even going to contemplate such a thing, then lets be totally honest.

Due to the era when Vain raced, the horse racing fraternity had different laws and permitted many controlled substance that enhanced performance. If both horses were to race within the same era then you can deduct at the very least 1 second from BC times or increase her winning margin by at least 6 lengths. BC has yet to exceed 2nd gear.

[SuperFreak2004]

Vain is the benchmark of great sprinters and as good as Black Mamma is she wouldn't get within 2L of him, but in saying that she is ahead of the rest including Manikato over the short course, if and when she is tried at 1200 and beyond will tell us how good she is and if she can improve on the 2L against Vain... 1. Vain 2. Black Caviar 3. Manikato$1.01c trifecta? LOL

[ozgoog]

Vain beat open aged horses as a 2 and 3 year old.....wait till Black Caviar does that..and as far as Manikato....Manikato did it year in and year out. for 5-6 years..won some race 3, 4 and 5 times....Black Caviar has alot to do yet to have a race record like that

[SvendBosanvovski]

@ozgoog Good call. And as you know, Vain stretched his brilliance to a mile and proved his superiority over Daryls Joy, a brilliant Kiwi that went to to win group level races in the US. Vain didn't beat open age horse at two, but at three he gave weight and a huge thrashing to what today would be multiple group one winners. Manikato's record speaks for itself, but I don't ever remember him beating a WFA field as contemtuously as BC did yesterday.

[ErionLigu]

new australian champion... forget cricket and AFL, its champion horses like this that make this country unique.

[SvendBosanvovski]

I have seen all the great modern Aussie sprinters from Wenona Girl to Miss Andretti, Todman, Vain, Manikato, Hareeba, Scillarchi, and Placid Ark, and Luskin Star. Vain has always been the benchmark for me, with Manikato not far behind. I have no doubt she is the greatest sprinting mare we have seen, and she may challenge those two mighty champions in the coming season. Clealry, we have not seen the best of her.