Newsnight: Michael Heseltine and Ken Loach 6 October 2010

[longandwindingroad88]

The top two comments sum up this debate. Loach is either thick or "wipes the floor clean" with Heseltine. The one person who was most spot on was actually Paxman when he made the point "we simply don't know". Loach doesn't know if 4 million will be unemployed, but the point that Heseltine made was weak when he referred to it being 2.5 mill. That figure has been passed. The 1 point that Loach made which nobody can really argue with is the damaging effects of such an unequal distribution of wealth

[voltigeur1850]

And before the inevitable ad hominem attacks begin, please note I said "could", not "should" in my first post. I merely wish to make the point that the matter is far more complex than Loach would have you believe and decorate my points with a few facts rather than petty personal comments as is the usual thing on Youtube comments!

[voltigeur1850]

Loach talks of a potential 4 million unemployed - latest estimates expect it to peak at around 3 million. That is huge of course, but considerably better than 4 million. As for the industrial base of this country, it was destroyed by being uncompetitive and making overpriced things people did not want to buy. The classic example is British Leyland. This was not unique to Britain - it happened all over Western Europe and America too. China and the far east provide incredibly cheap labour.

[voltigeur1850]

Some facts: the top 10% of income tax payers pay 53% of income tax and the top 1% pay 24%. Indeed, the 40% higher rate catches 12% of taxpayers and they pay 56% of income tax. The top 50% of taxpayers pay 90% of income tax revenues. If anything you could argue that the "rich" pay more than their fair share considering they own slightly less than half the private wealth of the country and when you consider they pay CGT and Inheritance tax, higher council taxes and taxes on savings!

[dlk1dlk1]

No, YOU, Sir, need to listen more carefully to what Heseltine said. He said talking about 'deserving poor and undeserving' was NOT a useful way to look at it. He said the real poor should be helped and that they always will be helped. He said before you 'share wealth' you MUST create it; that is what he did in the 1980s with Mrs Thatcher, when the then SOCIALIST Labour opposition was saying exactly the same thing as Loach here, and they were defeated FOUR times in the elections from 1979-1992.

[Etular]

As said, Loach wiped the floor with Heseltine. As has been repeated, this capitalist system supports the broken communities and unemployment, becoming more prominent the further right-wing the government becomes and more conservative its spending is. In times of recession such as these (already, some may argue, predicted by Marx in Das Kapital),anyone who isn't politically apathetic can't simply sit on the side-lines, supporting the centre parties. They're inclined to sway one way or the other.

[dlk1dlk1]

@Etular No, that is nonsense, all Loach had was a load of slogans, or 'claptrap'. I doubt very much whether Loach even fully understood what he kept saying here. He did NOT engage properly with Heseltine in the discussion because he knew Heseltine would destroy his argument if he did so.

[Etular]

@dlk1dlk1 The way I saw it, Loach was making valid points and Heseltine just dismissed it all as "claptrap" or "conspiracy theories". He may have quoted one or two slogans near the start, but after the second minute or so you cannot deny that Loach was pounding Heseltine with points that he not only refused to answer, but dismissed as "complete rubbish" because he simply couldn't answer. Personally, I would much rather have Loach in government than Heseltine, even if Loach is a film director.

[Etular]

@dlk1dlk1 Also, it would help if you could elaborate on what you mean by "destroy his argument" - as far as I see it, at the moment, Heseltine's argument is being put into practice in this Conservative government, and it isn't working.

[Edgey1988]

Heseltine Wins

[realzoomy]

STEALING POOR PEOPLE'S CHILDREN IN SECRET FAMILY COURTS IS VERY LUCRATIVE. DO THE SECRET FAMILY COURT HUMAN TRAFFICKERS PAY TAX ON EACH CHILD THEY STEAL?

[dezboss]

Ken loach is talking such bollocks, he refuses to acknowledge that when Labour came to power in 1997, the economy was in a great state. He refuses to acknowledge the Winter of Discontent, has decided all the problems we face today have been caused by Heseltine and the Conservatives, and seems to think every working class person is owed a living.

Heseltine could have argued his corner better, but Loach is prick.

[dezboss]

Ken Loach sounds like he's thick.

[signoftheserpent]

@dezboss listen more closely then. I admit it's a bit hard when you have Heseltine dribbling his tory excuses.

[dezboss]

@signoftheserpent It's even harder with Loach spouting all his communist bullshit.

[signoftheserpent]

@dezboss what communist bullshit would that be, please give examples.

[rhessex]

Hope someone will post the recent 'Hardtalk' with Ken Loach.

[rhessex]

Bravo Ken.

[ehpl]

Very funny that folk can swing the led on benefits – as I understand it Thatcher created Incapacity benefit to dump millions of folk into an abyss to help her fudge the unemployment figures- the system is ran by psychopaths and always has been - how we recognise and stop this is the key

[MrIOTOPIA]

Loach confuses the deficit for debt at around 2:05 and keeps showing his economic ignorance from thereon.

Agree about Hestletine though, anyone with all their marbles would have destroyed Loach and his waffling.

[misterpopvideo2]

I really enjoyed watching this, it almost defies belief that the Tories thought it fit to put Heseltine forward to fight their corner, if any proof at all is needed that the Conservatives are still entrenched in their old Thatcherite ways, this is it. The sheer stubborn hypocrisy and bigoted nature of Michael Heseltine is superbly laid open for all to see by the calm and collected figure of Ken Loach. Pity there's nobody left in the Labour Party willing to make the same argument.

[GravityBoy72]

Michael Hestletine is an arze.

Him and his like are evil.

There is no shortage of wealth, it's just that he has been part of the process to make sure more and more of the wealth went to the people at the top of the pile.

Ken Loach is right, Tax the wealthiest and clear the debt, leave the people at the bottom out of it.

[dezboss]

@GravityBoy72 So the people on the bottom who live off benefits from the taxpayer and never make the slightest effort to do a day's work in their lives should be allowed to completely get away with it?

That is so ridiculous it's almost laughable. There are scroungers at BOTH ends of the social scale you know. People like Michael Heseltine made their fortunes through hard work, why should they be the only ones to pay and low class scum get away from it.

[GravityBoy72]

@dezboss So the people at the top who live off dividends and never make the slightest effort to do a days work in their lives should be allowed to get completely away with it?

Listen mate, it's not the people at the bottom who are the problem. It's the people at the top hoarding wealth and denying opportunites for everyone else.

Tax them.

Tax them hard!

[dezboss]

@GravityBoy72 No it isn't, it's people at both ends of the scale. Not just the rich, I admit that rich people who have money (whether they work or not) should be taxed like normal people. But there ARE people at the bottom who scrounge with benefits from the taxpayer, do you really think they should be allowed to get away with it?

Neither side should be allowed to do that. Maybe the richest might have to bear the burden of highest taxation, but like f**k should low class scroungers get away.

[GravityBoy72]

@dezboss The small people are small fry.

The real problem are the rich. They have been getting richer and richer at the expense of everyone else and they don't deserve it

They own the system.

It needs to be taken back off them.

It's always been the problem for the human race.

Pointing at 'scrougers' (most of whom actually would like some meaningful work) is just a distraction.

[dezboss]

@GravityBoy72 Well, let's take it like this. My father had (like me) a good private school eductation, a stint with the RAF and then became an aircraft salesman and a property landlord. He is 61 this year, and in that time he has worked himself almost to death and bankruptcy. He is now a millionaire from stinking hard work. He is being faced with huge tax bills that he has to work extra hard for. Someone at my local has never done a days work in his life and lives off the state because 'he can'.

[GravityBoy72]

@dezboss

Let's put it like this, my Dad slogged his guts out in a factory doing 50/60 hour weeks (for the overtime because his basic wage was crap) for 40 years and worked far harder than an millionaire and for what. He now owns his tiny little ex-council house. Big deal.

If your Dad is facing hugh tax bills it's tough, he should have paid his taxes properly in the first. I bet he had a nice time along the way.

And please, stop going on about scroungers.

Are really expecting sympathy

[dezboss]

@GravityBoy72 My Dad has always paid his taxes, in fact his first business in the 70s was ruined because of taxes from the Labour Government. Also in his way to working get where he is, he suffered two heart attacks on the way and now has a pace maker. He deserved his rewards, he should not have to pay for low class scum who do fuck all everyday.

If your Dad didn't have a great job and doesn't have much now then tough for him. Maybe he wasn't qualified for anything great?

[dezboss]

@GravityBoy72 Are you honestly saying that that is remotely 'fair'? If you are then you're fucking deluded. And don't tell me that that sort of thig is rare, because there are many cases like that.

I would like to have a sensible and fair discussion about this, but you just sound like a bitter communists with a chip on your shoulder and no sense whatsoever.

[GravityBoy72]

@dezboss

The rich are hoarding the wealth they took of the backs of ordinary people.

There is no shortage of wealth and the debt was caused by ordinary poor people.

Please, acknowledge the real problem.

Greed.

Massive greed and thirst for power by super-rich people.

There is going to be a revolution in this country and it will be their fault because they didn't acknowledge their social responsibilities.

[GravityBoy72]

@GravityBoy72

Sorry.. the debt was NOT caused by ordinary people.

[dezboss]

@GravityBoy72 You're off your head, this isn't the middle ages or the 19th century. If you think that this is all the fault of the rich and there will be a revolution then good for you. You're a typical far leftie, a complete moaning whinger.

Carry on dreaming.

[GravityBoy72]

@dezboss

This the way it works. Money is used to buy the system that makes money.

In the end a few people own everything.

Look around.

Then what happens is the people at the bottom get hacked off and decide it's time for a bit of wealth redistribution.

The so the cycle goes on.

I'm not a 'far leftie', just an ordinary bloke who can see what's happening and he's had enough.

There is no shortage of wealth, it's just been 'one for you one hundred for me' for too long.

[dezboss]

@GravityBoy72 Well, for someone who isn't far left you sure sound like a communist. If people on the bottom can't be bothered to work hard enough to make it to the top then that's their own fault. My father could have been like that had he not had the guts to work hard to pick himself up.

There may not be a shortage of wealth, but it seems that peasant who were born with nothing (no one's fault) seem to believe they deserve every amount of sympathy others can muster. As if other people care.

[GravityBoy72]

@dezboss

Communist my arse,

Ordinary people have woken up and spotted where all the wealth went.

It won't be long now,

[dezboss]

@GravityBoy72 Oh well, wake me up when it's over will you?

I have no doubt it'll be that interesting and it'll cause that much interest that people will probably sleep through it.

[jonoessex]

Pity Hesletine can't debate with a left-winger without calling him a communist

[dezboss]

@jonoessex But he is a communist.

[jonoessex]

@dezboss He's a socialist

[usainlightning]

Ken Loach is a total dick, there is no substantive economic theory to back up the drivel and nonsense he is espousing.

[nem700]

i like the way heseltine talks

[frediswyde]

Well done Ken, we need more like you to speak out for the down trodden working class

[KnightsofZion]

@dezboss Have you been watching a different video? It's Tarzan aka Heseltine who spends the whole of the interview wagging his finger at Ken Loach!

Did the video appear in sepia, or as I suspect a pinkish hue as you must have viewed it through rose tinted glasses!

Idiot.

[dezboss]

@KnightsofZion You don't have to agree with me, but why don't you learn some fucking manners instead of calling me an idiot just because you don't agree what I said.

I won't get an apology, but it's owed nonetheless.

[KnightsofZion]

@dezboss You really are an idiot aren't you.

Is the use of bad language / expletives just for effect, or do you really struggle to articulate yourself?

Perhaps you also should reflect upon what constitutes a 'more adult conversation'!

apology? KMA

[dezboss]

@KnightsofZion Like I said, an apology is owed whether you give it or not.

I consider myself able to have an adult enough conversation with people who don't agree with me without having to call them an idiot. I think you are the one struggling to articulate yourself.

[autofreak7]

Ken Loach lives of government subsidies. He steals money from the 'artistic' government budget subsidies which could pay for DOZENS of unemployed. Hypocrite, stubborn child who isn't enough of a person to take responsibility for his party's actions. Do not take the piss out of people for something you are responsible!

[dezboss]

@autofreak7 Absolutely! I agree that left wing politics have their place in democracy (I'm only centre-right myself), but deluded idiots like Ken Loach are completely and utterly blind and those are the type of politics I hate.

[dezboss]

I cannot believe what complete utter rubbish Ken Loach is yapping out here.

[pastrychef1985]

Oh look, an obligatory fringe libertarian troll.

[VonMises1990]

Poverty dosen't exist in Britain. It is a boogeyman conjured up by the Left to hammer the middle classes, whom they despise for being conservative and prudent with money. Poverty exists in places like North Korea, where babies are used as food because they are so poor. Places like Cuba where people risk drowning as they cross the ocean to get to America. Mr Loach is free to go and live on those countries, but he chooses to remain in the free capitalist West. Slimeball hypocrite he is

[Bigmartinno1]

@VonMises1990 Poverty doesn't exist in the uk etc, bla, de blah de blah. Got any more cliched nonsense there?

I'd suggest you get some clothes on & get out there & get some real 'human action'......

[Bigmartinno1]

@VonMises1990 funny I thought it was mostly those prudent middle class people who bought into Britain's property bubble & were left with lots of prudent negative equity!

I honestly cannot believe how you people cannot see that your type of ideologies are the great enabler of everything that's happened this last few years! & before you come out with more preposterous cliches, even the great witch herself said Blair & Blue Labour were her greatest legacies....

[VonMises1990]

Those middle class people have mortgage debt. It is the new middle classes, e.g. those whose incomes were inflated by Blair and Brown through tax credits etc, who have the debt because they spend far too much. Also, Mrs Thatcher turned a budget deficit into a 3% surplus.

Free market ideology hasn't failed. Why would a free marketeer bail out a bank. They'd let them fail. This crisis has confirmed an old truth about the state... it is useless at interfering in the marketplace.

[VonMises1990]

And some statistics for Mr Loach... the top 1% of earners in the UK pay 25% of the total income tax take. The top 5% pay 50%, and the top 10% pay 90% of the total tax take.

The City provides 25% of the corporation tax intake. If you want 'frontline' public services, then you need the money to pay for it, and the bankers provide it for you.

[Bigmartinno1]

@VonMises1990 & they should pay more tax, or get paid less as part of a redistribution of income, one of the two.......

& the city should be kneecapped, after its drug dealingesque inherently corrupting influence on national politics

[p0lyph0nyXX]

The bit where Hesiltine patronizingly talks about our living in a global economy is base hypocrisy. Walmart's CEOs have the freedom to move their company and wealth wherever they like -- the same is categorically not true of those who manufacture Walmart's products. Even if the working poor of the developing/under-developed world could somehow scrape together the $ to move to a better-off country, their visa would almost certainly be denied. This neoliberal rhetoric of "freedom" makes me sick...

[fireflyman]

4:21 if anyone wants to step in and correct me pelase do so but does anyone have the heart to tell mr Loach that it was falling apart reguardless of the government?

[Iain1962]

Oops Mr Loach..The poor have to be bullied back to work??? Excuse me?

[steviepage7]

I had the pleasure of working with Ken in 1988 on the drama/documentary 'View From The Woodpile' Subject matter a group of unemployed young people from a socially disadvantaged area of the Black Coumtry expressing theselves through Theatre. With regards to Heseltine and the general conservatyive world view. Yes of course there is a percentage of people who have become dependent on claiming welfare. What the conservatives dont understand is the level of hopelessness the long term unemployed feel

[wishyouenough]

Ken Loach has been ignored or vilified for many years because his films expose hypocrisy, bigotry and the subjugation of.... er.. most of us. We are so poorly served by our 'leaders', we should wonder who they are really there for. The crimes against humanity perpetrated by the likes of Heseltine, Thatcher, Bliar, Bush, Rice and their, so far, nameless paymasters should be addressed. We are going to suffer anyway so why not take the bastards down with us?

[sehort]

Heleltine was the one in that dreadful 1992 Conservative recession who shut down some 35 coal mines overrnight & threw 30,000 miners on the scrapheap while at the same time, his own chancellor Nigel Lawson put intrestet rates up to 15% to help those with money get richer,

[rogerredcat]

the eloquent ken loach puts tree collector in his place.....................list­ening to and watching the wild haired tree collector you realise nothings changed with the tories.

[borjon23]

As Paxman pointed to, Heseltine seems unable to understand that Loach was making a broader statement about the sociopolitical culture in the UK (and in the broader neoliberal sphere), not a narrow, petty point about mainstream parties.

[p0lyph0nyXX]

@borjon23 Heseltine really is incredibly myopic on that point, isn't he? It would be somewhat hilarious if it weren't so sad -- particularly sad since this seems to be a quite prevalent way of looking at the situation: pointless endless bickering between far right neoliberalism (Tory) vs center-right neoliberalism (New Labour), with all other points of view marginalized as "crypto-communist claptrap" from the outset.

[nickestone]

Brilliant demolition job on this old bigot Heseltine. Well done Ken. We must fight the coming slaughter of public sector jobs, stand together as workers black,white ,young old,male female against this bloody awful government and the bosses.London Fireman for example are taking the fight forward with their strike on November 5. We must support them .

[toryboy69]

Great video. Thanks for posting. Never heard of Ken Loach but he put the key arguments across better than anyone in the Labour cabinet will ever dare to attempt. Heseltine is a nutcase and his unelected breed in the house of lords want doing away with. Its obviously a question of fairness and theyre obviously favouring certain sections of the population more than others because it boils down to the fact that money lost through tax avoidance is worth more than money lost through benefit fraud.

[sugarraygras]

@toryboy69 The most heinous tory cover story for the blatant attack on the poorest people in our society is that it has something to do with benefit fraud. You dont solve benefit fraud by attacking those not perpetuating it. Class war has been declared by the looks of it and anyone who relishes the prospect obviously know nothing of the nations history. The country will be ripped apart socially and I believe the homeless innercity population will be less polite than the miners of 20yrs ago

[celticricky32]

hesseltine is a bully and has a heart of stone. he doesnt care who he destroys. i hope he goes to hell.

[venerablejohn]

Loach killed him, "this man was part of the destruction of our industrial base" . "this is the man who destroyed communities".

Heseltine's face at that point - I've seen Lie to Me - GUILT!!! SHAME!!! That's what his face said, couldn't bring himself to say sorry though, upper class, entitled twit.

[closertofiftythanyew]

Bluddy feckin Torys.

And Tory-lite? Is that fat-free or sugar-free? Noooo, it is left-free, and look at the mess we are in after over three decades of Tory/Tory-lite governments.

Go Ken! The only bloke that seems to talk sense these days.

[ronnoten]

ken loach eats him up, well done ken.

[TerrySleeper]

Heseltine: another bloated Tory telling the rest of us to "tighten our belts".

To Hell with him & his class.

[jasonleigh1974]

@nmh1975 No, you make no sense. Thatcher started the ball rolling with the deregulaton of the financial institutions and removed any restrictions on the London Stock Exchange. With Privatisation she flogged off public assets to the highest bidders who were only interested in making a profit. She basically invented 'Casino Capitalism'..encouraging traders and bankers to take monumental risks without fear of reprisal. New Labour just continued with same ideas. She ruined this country you fool.

[45mooks]

Ken Loach did more in six minutes and forty seven seconds to expose the Tories than what New "Labour" will manage to do over the next five years.

[gruejo]

"crypto-communist load of clap-trap". With such a statement as that Heseltine conveys how ignorant and how out of date the Conservative party are. To believe that Thatcher was a great PM and that New labour wasn't Thatcherite policies in disguise you have to be ignorant or retarded. This is conveyed by the ill-educated nmh1975. As the Economist said a few years back when Tony Blair left power and the Economic crisis started "Thatcherism is now dead". Hopefully this will be true.

[nmh1975]

Heseltine makes sense, and Left wing head in the sand fools always seek others to blame for their mammoth mistakes. Labour scum created the problems we are in by allowing a credit fuelled boom so they could gorge on the tax receipts from the Banks to pay people to sit at home in a better standard of living than those in work. That isn't fair, and Labour have never been fair. They then leave behind generations of debt for the next government to clear. Ken Loach is a fool and offers no solutions

[lindsay40k]

Heseltine is clearly paranoid if not actually mentally ill. Thirteen years of Labour? Thirteen years of new Labour, continuing with his and Thatcher's policies of mass unemployment, corporate bailouts, privatisation, warmongering and brutal attacks on civil liberties.

[lindsay40k]

Freedom? Where was my free choice when the government decided to force me to underwrite the gambling debts of the bankers? Where was my free choice not to fund state terrorism when the bloodthirsty Tories demanded more dead Iraqis, killed faster, at my expense? Where was my free choice when the Tories decided to kick away the ladder of free education that they all climbed?

[tiarnan17]

"what are you defending except a crypto-communist load of clap-trap?" LOL

[mesneeze]

Heseltine: owned

[pastrychef1985]

Heseltine loses it so easily. Nutter!

[hls1991]

what a loathsome fool heseltine is, as always Ken Loach brilliant in his put downs why don't we get to listen to more people like him. heseltine's dismissal of Loach's arguments as 'cryto communist crap' shows how reactionary political commentary is in this country.

[arbeitsscheuer]

God I love Loach

[SimonHHH]

Excellent calm and cool performance by Ken Loach there - really exposed the tories for what they are. I wonder how badly the UK would have been hit by the US sub-primes crisis had the finance sector and stock exchange not been completed deregulated by the Heseltine/Thatcher clique?

[alimort1]

My favourite piece of telly so far this year.

Thanks for posting it.

[TerrySleeper]

Loach ripped Heseltine's head off rather nicely, I thought.

[boomchilds]

@TerrySleeper

He was talking like it was still the 80's.

[Schniddo]

@boomchilds

Indeed, in the 80s people still had the gall to oppose the orthodoxy of neoliberal ideology. Go figure.

[midianholic]

@TerrySleeper You thought ? Well that's a first. The most sensible comment I saw on this debate was that those on the right would take comfort from Hezza's view and claim he won and those on the left would do the same with Loach simply as both reinforced their prejudices. I think, for a Tory, Hezza is a decent chap. He opposed Thatcherism and its cancerous effect on the nation. As for Loach. One of the finest drama makers this country has produced.

[AFXE]

By the way, when ever people start to blame thatcher, or the tories, or labour or the bankers etc first they should consider that what is really to blame: the ideology of neo-liberalism - an ideology all those actors had or currently do support whole heartedly. That is the ideology that is turning back the clock on all the hard work previous generations had done in creating a fairer, more equal and democratic society. It will create hell on earth if the enemy of neo-liberalism is not reversed!

[robinchume]

Ken Loach should be applauded. He had the courage to say what many people think. How dare the Tory millionaires lecture ordinary people. They have no idea what their lives are like. The briefer their peiod in office the better. Time the greedy parasitic bankers paid the money back.

[barrington23]

@midianholic and heseltine isn't?!?

[midianholic]

@barrington23 He tried to bring down Thatcher and saw the dangers she posed to the Tory Party in the longer term. Bashing him for Thatcherism is a bit daft by Loach.

[Schniddo]

@midianholic This didn't stop Heseltine from rushing to defend Thatcher's legacy. The fact many Tories turned their backs on her after the fury over the Poll Tax only goes to show what an unprincipled bunch they are.

[midianholic]

@Schniddo Hezza did not turn on her after she left. He had reservations going back to 1979.

[Schniddo]

@midianholic He may well have had reservations but he was still responsible for the closure of the remaining mines in the early 90s. He also seems to think it is perfectly okay for governments to be blackmailed by big capital and the bourgeoisie ("if we tax them they'll go elsewhere!") - but if the unions go on strike, well they're holding the country to ransom. One rule for them, another rule for us.

[midianholic]

How is attacking dole spongers an attack on working people ? These people are sponging scum.

[AFXE]

@midianholic 'Dole spongers' are a minority and it is the pretext used to justify cuts in social spending that will hurt a far greater number of ordinary working people on low and middle incomes, whilst those who caused the crisis and therefore a massive part of the debt we are in today continue living their lives of extreme opulence. It's amazing how so many have been diverted away from the real criminals and spongers by focusing on the weakest and most vulnerable in society. Classic trick.

[midianholic]

@AFXE Yeah, I guess it is all the bankers fault as well. Not the fault of the government with their incompetent regulation or the mugs who borrowed more money that they could afford to pay back.

[schumiisking]

@midianholic

well when youre poor, with low income, and youre offered the chance at living in a house of any kind instead of renting, you cannot blame the people for borrowing more than they could afford.

you miss the big picture, you have to ask, why were in that position in the first place?

its not the bankers fault at all, they did their jobs, its government for deregulating. and then bailing them out. and then getting us pay back the bailout....even tho they were bailed out with our money

[AFXE]

@midianholic It's the capitalists fault and those who gave them the power to dominate society which includes the past Labour government. And yes some people were stupid with borrowing, but the majority were advised it was a safe course of action deemed necessary to maintain a standard of living expected by them and society and very vigorously and actively encouraged by the banks AND government. A reason for the increase in personal debt is the stagnation of real wages since the 70's.

[midianholic]

@AFXE Wages rocketed in the 70s due to rampant inflation. That was the problem not the solution.

[Bigmartinno1]

@midianholic British industry from the late 60s onwards suffered an acute lack of investment in plant or model upgrades. most of the investment moved in the direction of finance. British capitalists thought this was the way forward. On the problems of the 70s you can look at that first & look at rising international competition that did the opposite second, 2 oil shocks & then look at, well I don't think you really have to look at rising wages as a cause of inflation

[midianholic]

@Bigmartinno1

I always saw rising wages as a consequence of inflation rather than the cause of it. IT became a vicious circle. The Labour government was tackling the issue of overspending and inflation - the legacy of Anthony Barber firing up the printing presses in the early seventies - and doing a good job. Sadly the rest is history.

[tedmaulz]

When you cant disprove what is being said, just use the old it's a 'conspiracy theory' tactic. that should fool some of the brainwashed.

[adamitinerant]

And the best that hysterical Lord Heseltine can do is fling ad hominem attacks? Britain's people will need all the help they can get under this shower again. Raining Stones indeed.

[closertofiftythanyew]

Tarzan Hezza just does not get it, he is trying to get Ken to defend 13 years of Labour, what an arse. Ken is there to tell the fool what will probably happen to large sections of the population in the UK in the coming years. Just give Hezza a £3000 bottle of Petrus plonk to quafe and tell him to just shut it.

[GravityBoy72]

Ken Loach, THANK YOU!

This is the UNDESERVING RICH against the powerless poor.

Brilliant.

[closertofiftythanyew]

Top drawer, Ken.

These crypto-fascist old Torys just still do not have a clue. It may have taken decades for them to see sense, but Scotland and possibly Wales will bin these SE little englanders from their life,once and for all. Yes, 1980s torys destroyed the UK. And if these financially well-off "elite" want to piss off out of this country, let me hold the door open for them, and let the rest of us carry on without their destroying financial-robbing ways.

[Kozzy06]

@jasonleigh1974 You are completely deluded. It was LABOUR that got the country into this mess, and LABOUR who spent money we did not have, which they knew we did not have.

The Tories, once again, are having to clean up the economic mess that Labour ALWAYS leave the country with, which the Tories ALWAYS have to clean up. If

Labour supporters are completely deluded of the mess thier party made of the country. We are paying £100m+ a DAY in INTEREST ffs!

[polzasderty]

@Kozzy06 The mess Labour got this country in was the result of carrying on Margaret Thatcher's legacy in the deluded impression that they could do it in a more humane way. The reason the Tories took so long to recover was they couldn't offer any alternative to their own policies that Labour was pushing through.

[digimaton]

@jasonleigh1974 @jasonleigh1974 it's difficult to ignore the wage issue, but somehow it never get's discussed in any great detail, look at the trend in the states since the late 70s, wages essentially flat-lined while production steadily increased, leading to a situation where people worked harder for less as the cost of living rose. Same thing has been happening here. The recession is an excuse to squeeze people even harder, it suits the Tory agenda, the perfect smoke screen for them.

[reverendmississippi]

contributions in terms of what brilliant 

[reverendmississippi]

this is the best argument I have heared yet od on ye Ken

[reverendmississippi]

this is tyhe best argument I have heared yet od on ye Ken

[sonofcy]

Good one Ken, you kept your cool and presented him with the record of what he and the government he served in did. All he could do was splutter, constantly interrupt and then start calling names because he damned t New Labour as Tories. So that's what it's come to now eh , if you don't support the Tories or New Labour - Tory light - then you must be a communist? Ken was right about what happened and what's going to and you know it. That's why you got angry.

[dm18876]

Heseltine had no argument to offer except a cynical move to associate Loach with being supportive of New Labour, when everyone knows he was one of their most vocal critics. And as for the 'psedo-communist claptrap' comment......oh dear.

[AlpineRoute]

There seems to be an outbreak of pseudo communist clap trap within the comments here....

[captainpanic08]

It's odd, one of the conditions for my partner to visit the country is proving the intent and ability to leave within 6 months. Funny how 'freedom enables people to decide where to live' but he doesn't seem to count as a person when billionaire venture capitalists do. And now the immigration cap!

Trickle down economics works. Very badly, creating massive inequality and global poverty for all but a few, but it puts food on the table. That's exactly how the billionnares and politicians want it.

[TheRosanoff]

Well Said Ken

[123WelshDan321]

Good going Ken - the Tory's only response is to try and talk over you with the usual rhetoric.

[digimaton]

Hesiltine @ 2:38 "we live in a global economy" yet, he insists on blaming the economic downturn on the outgoing political party?

Hesiltine's face @ 3:40 sums up the Tories: psychotic scum.

If they want people off the dole maybe they should sort out the minimum wage issue and pay people a reasonable wage for their labour, why is there no discussion on this?

[sugarraygras]

@digimaton True. Rich loose the money and the poor pay the cost. Ghettos will result and the costs to our society will be far more than those paid in benefits. The idea that they will be making over 1 million homeless and chaos will not result shows that they have learnt nothing from the poll tax debacle. The poor are a soft target but the impact will effect the whole of society. Do they expect the poor to die soundless in the gutter and the rest of us to step over them without care.

[PolitelyHomicidal]

@digimaton Heseltine has got all his brains in his hair. The man's a buffoon. Loach wiped the floor with him. And Cameron has just brought Heseltine back into government...God help us.

[Caspar33]

@PolitelyHomicidal ...Perfect! And look where we are now as Blair counts his millions.

[Caspar33]

Brilliant. The truth here is like classic comedy. So funny because so painful. I'd make this essential viewing in all schools and living rooms across our once green and pleasant...

[dlk1dlk1]

@PolitelyHomicidal No, it IS yesterday's claptrap.

[owls1588]

@digimaton because you cant pay top wack wages for unskilled work,take your sick socialist views and stick em up ur arse

[digimaton]

@owls1588 you are clearly an idiot, blindly spouting the word "socialist," and ignoring reality, look at the facts before you start making stupid ad hominem attacks. The relationship between inflation, minimum wage, and minimum standard of living, has nothing to do with politics, it's a matter of human rights.

[usainlightning]

@digimaton

Increase the minimum wage and you'll cause unemployment

[frankster2345]

@digimaton We do live in a global economy yet we seem to be the worst hit by the economic downturn why? Because of labour pissing money up the wall. And to make the assertion that the tories are psychotic scum on someones facial expression is pathetic. @misterpopvideo2 is there anything wrong with thatcherism a doctrine based on self improvement, Tebbit and Thatcher both came from humble backgrounds something that may escaped your notice.

[number94]

Thanks Ken

[misterpopvideo2]

I really enjoyed watching this, it almost defies belief that the Tories thought it fit to put Heseltine forward to fight their corner, if any proof at all is needed that the Conservatives are still entrenched in their old Thatcherite ways, this is it. The sheer stubborn hypocrisy and bigoted nature of Michael Heseltine is superbly laid open for all to see by the calm and collected figure of Ken Loach. Pity there's nobody left in the Labour Party willing to make the same argument.

[SwarmWorld]

One of the dying big beasts of the Neo Nasty Party still trying to defend the indefensible.

All part of the Big Society B/S.

"We are all in this together."

Except the rich, of course.

Only the little people pay taxes.

[emanitudism]

I will not be held to ransom by the rich.

If they want to emigrate then they're not fit to live amongst the civilised.

It's easy to hold to ransom those citizens who are trapped and who can't walk away.

It's also despicably cruel, vicious, and plain old-fashioned nasty.