Determinist Meeting 2, pt. 2

[msinummoc]

Anything other than some conception of human agency is non-sensical. Problem with this discussion is that it is utterly philosophical unsophisticated, and you are confusing the brain with our Bewusst-Sein and causal relations with total determination. Free will is, of course, hard to prove. But determinism can atleast be disproved. (Hint. Read your modern philosophy, read Heisenberg.) Dilletants.

[Shezmu]

arrr, I want more Elaine. <_< Anywho, I just wanted to put out that of the people I talked to who believe in free will, they believe that free will is completely materialistic and is somehow in the otherwise completely causual universe. Don't ask me how this is suppose to work. Also, About a comment Elaine made half-way in the video, I used to be a christian and I became an atheist simply by hearing the arguments for atheism.

[toiletholder]

Since I get upset discussing/arguing about fundamental things of the universe, I will say the following: 'yer both damn hot, the two of 'yas.

[burnvictim77]

Well, thank you.

[cymbeli]

One more thing, I think the concept of free will discussed here is not even remotely close to what theists refer to as free will. However, I agree in regards to God being outside the laws of physics. Its the only way there could be a God. I prefer purple to blue and choose blue (freewill). I prefer purple to blue and choose purple. (still free will) Its the preference that is determined by something other than my will who knows, genes, the position of the sun at my birth, childhood experiences.

[LaughsWithKant]

Why aren't compatibilists discussed? :(

[burnvictim77]

Because that term doesn't have a very precise usage. Some have called me a compatibilist because I maintain that morality is possible along with determinism.

[LaughsWithKant]

Gary, it's inacurate to hold the discussion as if determinism automatically precludes free will, and I know you know that. Also, you I'll be in DC Dec 10-25.

[burnvictim77]

Ah, then we'll have to fill a full discussion of compatibilism at that time! If you are game, that is. And you aren't quite as cute as Elaine, but I'm sure it'll be a hit!

[burnvictim77]

Film, even.

[Censeo]

both free and will is nonsensical if it is concepts related to physics, as well as the concept of comprehension and there being anyone out there (agents).

[burnvictim77]

Substantiate.

[Censeo]

I mean it is a very good thing indeed that we don't have free will in that sense. I'd rather have my choices determined by my experience and capacity to calculate the future probabilities and that they are enslaved to what I actually desire and that it follows my priorities well. These are inner states. If they are caused by neurons or a soul doesn't matter. They aren't free from these inner states anyway and that is good news to all who wish to feel any form of freedom in their lives.

[Censeo]

Sleepwalking is considered not to have been a choice. So brain activity alone doesn't make up what is considered to be choice making. Will is therefore connected to the choices you make where you have considered doing it consciously before you did it. It is therefore of key essence to refer to will as caused by experience and emotions and other inner states we get aware of.

[burnvictim77]

I chose to sleepwalk, I'll have you know. I did it of my own free will, just like my seizures.

[Rythsaad]

Hmm...connecting free will to the soul as one concept instead of two?

[hollytoo]

"It's not even true, it's not even true at all."

*snicker

I like Elaine.

[D4Shawn]

I like her noncognitivist approach to "free will". That's the approach I've taken instinctually (also borrowed from theological noncognitivism). It's good to hear someone else articulate it.