i remember seeing this fight live on HBO, March 17th 1990.. i was absolutely shocked when Richard Steele stopped the fight with only seconds to go..he really did rob Taylor of the championship belt and a win against the great Chavez..Steele should've been banned from boxing for life,and how could Lou Duva tell his fighter he needed the last round to win the fight,unbelievably bad advice...
@USMC19777 The fight was not broadcast live, nor was it a PPV event. The premiere of the fight on HBO was 2 weeks following the fight. Funny how we forget the cold hard facts over time. You didnt watch it live unless you were at the fight.
Your opinion of Steele is based on your sympathy for Taylor, nothing more or less. Steele acted accordingly and did his job. Ask any ref in the world. Banned for life? Heil Hitler!
@USMC19777 How could Duva (and the great George Benton) tell his fighter he needed the last round? Simple. They were at the fight ringside and saw the great Chavez pounding the shit outta their boy all night with clean,crisp well-placed shots that score very high and do alot of damage.They also weren't being lead or misinformed by HBO like the viewing audience.They were actually watching the fight coming to their own conclusion. They were aware of the reality of the situation.It was up for grabs
@USMC19777 It wouldve been a travesty had Duva and Benton told Taylor to run the last round for a couple reasons. 1.) Taylor was dehydrated,suffering triple vision(this is a documented fact),bleeding interally(fact), and had no legs. He was spent. You cant run from a man who has been specifically trained since he was 12 yrs how to fight runners, who was a master at destroying such fighters(Camacho), and expect to survive in Taylors condition. JC wouldve KO'd even earlier in the round.
@USMC19777 2.) You're asking the fighter to give the round away.This was Meldrick Taylor and Julio Cesar Chavez.This fight was still fresh out of the 80's.This, in my opinion, was the last fight of the '80's even though it was in early '90 because this is how they used to do it.This wasnt fucking Oscar DeLahoya and Felix Trinidad.This was fucking Chavez-Taylor. 2 REAL CHAMPIONS. They fought like champions do until the final bell. Taylor went out like a Champ. Chavez closed the show like a Champ
@gprix that's your opinion, what about the club boxers that knocked Julio down face first and forcing him to retire? Who was that guy?
But, regardless, you're wrong yet again.
Taylor knocked out McGirt, nobody thought he could do it. He also beat Garcia by SD in a 12 round slugfest post Chavez I robbery, (Garcia, incidentally was undefeated).
Aaron Davis (who I think beat Vinny Paz, and was no pushover) also lost to Tayler.
@gprix A boy whom I no longer have respect asked you who the club fighter was that dropped JC to his knee's. That club fighter was H.O.F, Kostya Tzsyu. This goes to show how ignorant this shameless piece of longhorn dung is. Only he knows it. He's just a slanderous spin doctor spewing dis-information and lies or at best half-truths. He's the scum of the earth. Don't reply to this cowardly piece of shit any longer. As you said, dont humor him. Want face first? Watch what Mayweather did to Pea.
fucking amatuers. The Whitaker fight was a weird fight he didnt look right in that fight i think drugs and booze combined w almost 100 fight career caught up w him in one night. Add to that the fucking bitch fighting tactics of Pea that night and it was a weak fight. Now if he would of fought JCC the way he fought R Mayweather standing and banging JCC would of KO d the fucking shit out of him. Thats another real solid fighter JCC fucking worked twice.. Bottom line is JCC was the f
the hospital with multiple fractures and damage and who spent the night completely ok and went to an after party... I mean if i was in a street fight w Canibusnj and he beat my ass but it was close but if i was the one that went to the hospital and was truly beaten up... There would be no way i could say i won the fight..
@bmillerdrums Translated,Chavez once said," I'm economical until the crucial moment. Then I strike with all the violence I possess." circa 1985. Now view this video, at the 0:22-0:32 mark is a perfect example of this. Chavez was always very economical and wasted nothing and then he'd suddenly lower the boom. How many times have we witnessed? So much to learn from this warrior.
@TheChoice264 Choice, Mite/Brandt has lost his marbles. Spews utter nonsense. To answer this idiot, his same incredibly stupid crap, is to humor him. Fuck him.
I think people like Canibusnj turn off the production at around 430 bc if they really listened they would hear that he (i mean Taylor )was never the same.. I think the intelligent people clearly know that Chavez was the harder man that night and thats it... Maybe they see a little of themselves in Taylor. Someone that tried really hard to beat someone and gave there all but came up short to a better man. Who knows? I just cant see how people still defend that position.. Who spent the night in
@bmillerdrums Thanks. Yeah, I'm just tired of these shameless fucks who play dumb. Nobody can be that dumb. I even showed a guy a photo or atleast told him where he can view the photo and he actually called that photo of Taylor clutching the top strand with his glove and arm on the rope,hence holding the ropes, an "opinion", not a fact. Really? Fuck him. What a waste of my time. Dont even bother with 09Brant anymore. He's the epitome of Chavez Hater. The worst case I've ever seen.
the right thing. There was no corruption involved. Mel didnt answer the question.. Never let go of the ropes probably didnt know where the fuck he was and got caught at the end of a fight he should of stayed away from. Its not Steeles fault its Taylors and his corner. They werent stupid why else would they tell him to fight the last rd. They saw how damaged he was and knew the fight was close. He got caught/clipped when he should of boxed. Blame Mel and fat ass liar Duva not Steele.
@bmillerdrums "There was no corruption involved" GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK DUDE!!!!! I WON'T ALLOW YOU TO INSULT MY INTELLIGENCE, SO ANSWER THIS QUESTION FOR ME: WHY DID STEELE LET CHAVEZ WANDER AWAY FROM THE NEUTRAL CORNER WHEN HE WAS GIVING MELDRICK THE COUNT AND NEVER PUT HIM BACK....... BUT JUST KEEP COUNTING LIKE HE DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING?!?!?!?!?
@canibusnj continued: BELIEVE IT OR NOT, I have spoken to Meldrick face to face plenty of times and NO his speech is not crystal clear BUT MELDRICK TALKS BETTER THEN I WOULD SAY HALF OF THESE UNEDUCATED, IGNORANT MISERABLE FUCKS CALLING THEMSELVES AFRICAN AMERICAN MEN!!!!! I THINK I'M GOING TO UPLOAD A GOOD QUALITY VIDEO OF ME TALKING TO HIM IN THE FUTURE!!!! :)
@canibusnj Of course they have to convince themselves that T is "retarded" due to Chavez. ha, ha...Ain't so. T gained his motor skills back after away from the ring for a couple yrs. JUST like Riddick Bowe. Look at a replay of Bowe after his ass taking vs Golota and Holyfield at only 28! Nowadays, no probs.
These ninny's need so badly to convince themselves of pure fantasy.
@canibusnj I dont think he "let chavez wander..." that ending is one of most dramatic ever in history. That shit happened so fast and i think he was just mainly focusing on Taylors well being bc he saw the rd by rd breakdown of his body and head. At the time there was also alot of attention on fighter safety bc of the death of a korean fighter fighting Mancini in 85. I think he cared about Mel and saw he was hurt bad and that one more punch could of been potential death. Death dude not a win/ls
Its hilarious too that Hbo chooses to show the part of the interview at the end when Taylor put together his only complete coherent sentence.. If u watch the full interview he can barely speak his brain is so scrambled.. He mispronounces words and is a complete mess. Bottom line to this whole argument is Steele didnt know there was 5 sec left.(his mistake for sure) But... Even if there was say 20 sec left if mel was allowed to continue 1 more punch could of ended his life. IT sucks. Steele did
@bmillerdrums You're wrong about it being "Steele's mistake for sure" about not knowing how much time was left. It's not his concern to begin with. He has no responsibility to know how much time is left in a round. That is the time keepers job and what the time keeper is paid for. Steele's only job is to make sure the fighters are fighting by the Marquess of Queensbury Rules AND, most importantly, the condition and well-being of the fighters.
@bmillerdrums Time is completely irrelevent to a ref. The only time a ref concerns himself with time is on a pick-up count and at the sound of the bell to seperate the fighters. REAL SHIT.
Yeah this documentary was a joke just like the HBO fight commentary. Not only was the commentary horrendous but also notice at the end of every round they only show slow motion replay of Taylors fash punches and never JC's bone crushers he was landing all night long. Too funny.
@bmillerdrums thank you, but I notice all you did was offer opinions, no facts. My opinion is simple: JCC fought mostly a notch above club fighters, won with Steele and Duva's help, (should have walked across the ring and shook Duva's hand).
As far as his "brain being scrambled" that was years of abuse, not one night vs Chavez?!
Steele may have been a professional, but he allowed impulse and panic to misjudge the final moments. He mishandled the final seconds.
Mel's record before this fight: 24 - 0 - 1. After this fight: 14 - 8 (koed 4 times). This is why Duvas said: "After that it was always on the down side. That loss...that loss did it."
@gprix I understand that the truth hurts...YOu can't quote Duva and HBO when it suits your side of the debate, YET ignore the context of their whole argument.
It seeths you to the point of insanity, you simply don't have logic or history on your side. It's that simple, Gprix'er, I'm sorry.
Now, that you poorly listed Mel's highlights, (biased) , let's list who JCC fought and the records of his opponents after this farce.
@09Brant Let's get civil. Aren't you getting things backward? I can't even understand just what you are trying to say here. Why is it important what happened after this fight. JC went to Spain, then came back to fight in Mexico the rest of 1990. Why does this erase or disqualify 115 fights during 25 yrs in the ring. He finally lost 4 yrs after. So?And why is Duva's comment (and the others, I assume you saw the video) out of context?What are you saying,and how is this fight affected.
@gprix what's it, Love Bug? I'm watching "Storage Wars"...is there really some topic that we DIDN'T discuss over the past two and half years? How pathetic is that BS?
@canibusnj Very simple questions, but, since you have NO intelligent answer, you have to ignore them and go to your "gift" silliness, and, oh yeah, insults.
@gprix For your information since you forgot and probably have Alzhimers or Dementia. I HAVE BEEN REPLYING INTELLIGENTLY TO YOUR IGNORANCE AND STUPIDITY FOR TWO TO THREE YEARS!!!!!
@canibusnj Since we're both amused, just to humor me, can you or will you give a simple answer to the questions I asked Mite/Brandt? The ones that got you so mad?
@gprix I have given you plenty of intelligent answers gprix and l won't call you prick anymore because one thing I really respect about you is that you don't seem to hate blacks like a lot of Mexicans do.
@canibusnj Hey dumbfucker hows it goin? I'm not goin to get into a discussion with u on racism,class,or social science in regards to Mexico, for it's quite complex and, quite frankly, over your peanut head. Mexico is no different than any other country and they dont try and pretend to be, in regards to racism and social status. There are dumbfuck racist's like u everywhere the world over. Why do u try to paint a picture that they hide it? They dont.
@canibusnj Where you are wrong is that u think Mexicans discriminate when it comes to their beloved warriors. THEY DO NOT!! It don't matter if you're damn near black like my favorite fighter growing up in the early '80's, The Indian from Cuajimalpa, or dark skinned like Jose Luis Ramirez, or bronze like Sanchez and Chavez or white like Alvarez, if u box in Mexico, you're highly respected regardless of color.
@canibusnj The reason why Alvarez is so popular in Mexico has next to nothing to do with Mexico and EVERYTHING to do with the U.S.! HBO and the U.S have sold Alvarez to Mexico. It's HBO who love the freckles,white skin, and red hair.HBO created the phenomena just as they have for other fighters who dont deserve the attention and accolades. Since HBO has thrown in with Alvarez and made him the chosen one, OF COURSE Mexico is going to support him because he's representing the country.
@canibusnj Its as simple as that. I don't care if an indigenous boxer from Mexico came along or one of the much looked down upon Afro-mexicans living on the coast's that were brought over by the Spaniards as slaves in the 1500's came along out of Mexico. IF HBO threw in with them and built up their star power and said here's the next great thing out of Mexico, then he'd be every bit as popular as Canelo Alvarez. A mexican warrior is a mexican warrior. Class and race have no place....in the ring.
@canibusnj So dont blame and accuse Mexico but your own damn country fool. We takin what u givin us. You given us Alvarez and Jr. Yes, we love Jr. because he's the son of the Legend and great warrior, The Lion of Culiacan. But, Jr. and Alvarez gotta show us something. They got heart, but do they have the goods? Typically i'd say no, but in this day and age...what are the goods when talking the youngins? Say hello to Merldrick for me. Great Jr.Welter. Too bad he wasted his career at Welterweight.
@canibusnj You can't speak "intelligence" to a grown man who continues to need to live in denial. I laid th ebare facts out straight up to him, and yet, he insists on looking the other way.
"Mel went to the ER". Yes, he did, back in the ring 4 months later.
"JCC stopped his career." Debunked.
I can go on and on, but denial is a dangerous thing. Rememebr, you can't convince someone against their will.
@09Brant What facts are those. It took you 2 days to think of an answer. Could not do it, so you resort to fantasy. And, for the record, I never said JC "stopped his career". What I did say, is that after this Mel came down from sure all-time great to just another guy who won another title, and lost it in his 3rd defense. The same thing the Philly guy, the 2 Sports I guys, and Duva himself say in that video that you refuse to watch or acknowledge.And I sure don't want to convince you.
@gprix No, whiner, mama's boy..it's not called, "it took me two days to answer". It's called:
1) I've had an answer for you and Choice any and every time..which is why you sulk and post me swear words and pout like a bitch..(pretty much like Chavez did after Randall handed him his fourth loss, or like Oscar did by shuting him up, literally by pounding his mouth in that second fight..)
2) Don't know about you, but I work for a living and am a single father, can't be on here 24/7 like some one.
@09Brant Again, just WHAT are you trying to say. Make up your mind.
Yes, Mel fought again, Primo R for the 2nd time, won his title (dec), defended it twice (dec, 1 split) and lost it the 3rd time. A lot different from pre-Chavez Mel (undefeated).
@gprix No, sir, make up your mind. You are saying that JCC ended T's career. This is simply not logical, historical or even remotely factual. I have listed their respective opponents side by side on here and it's too embarrassing for you and Choice to comment on..so you revert back to the same juvenile mantra.
Look at T's opponents' records, ok? Now, do the same for JCC? Who played it safe? T was still slugging it out while JCC was boxing club fighters as "champion" half way across the world.
@09Brant This is so lame. Just why in the world is it SO important who fought who AFTER this ko. Mel went 14 -8. Chavez, well, take a look. And even so, what would this prove. Keep ignoring what Duva and the other guys said regarding this fight, which is the same I've posted.Canib at least think they are wrong, and they owe Mel an apology. What sin did JC commit by going to Spain.
You know, why am I humoring you, a total idiot, Bye.
@gprix Listen to me carefully, and read carefully. It DOES matter and I'll explain to you why: T was NOT a power puncher, yet he fought mostly (except for Ernie Chavez) power punchers this includes Chavez. Unlike Pernell Sweat Pea, who was able to anger JCC by being a moving target, T stood toe-to-toe with him, (and Norris, go figure)?
Post Chavez I, Taylor went on a win streak of power punchers, (This is when he should have taken it easy, got his rythm back). Yes, you're right, most by ...
@09Brant Let me use your insanity against you. Pernel Whitaker, after losing a hotly disputed decision to the great champion Jose Luis Ramirez, immediately fought Antonio Carter, who had an 3-8-1 record, in the cozy confines of his hometown of virginia beach. Ramirez immediately fought a guy named Julio Cesar Chavez who was considered the baddest man on the planet south of the heavyweight division. What does your illogic say about that?
@09Brant Look up any fighters resume and you'll find that fighters fight journeymen even after theyre champion, they have to. Its called going to work. You cant fight everybody and you have to fight your mandatories. The question is not who Chavez fought, but why Taylor ran from him and killing any chance of a rematch for his title. Ask yourself why he fought Chavez 4 yrs later at the same weight as 1990 when he couldve done it in 1990-91?
@09Brant I dont want an answer from you.I was just pointing out your insanity.You'd only give more of your illogical,fanatical,irrational,ludicrous bullshit anyway.I would like to ask you a question though that I would like an answer from you.This is alittle change of pace and off the topic of Chavez-Taylor.Most boxing afficionados consider Roberto Duran the greatest Lightweight Champion in Boxing history.He fought his entire prime in that division.He went 72-1. Do u think he was overrated?
decision victory , but I'm trying to point out the calibur of boxers, (ok, Brown was not a power puncher, he was a counter puncher), But Davis was no bum, neither was Garcia and even Ramos...T was a little guy in a big man's sport.
Now, on to JCC post Taylor I:
I don't need to rehash it. Do I?
So, Duva, or whomever certainly has their right to a opinion, but I'm telling you, it is not so. Duva gave this interview AFTER T's career, not when he was still training him.
Now, I'll use your same logic AGAINST you: Why does it matter so much that you and many JCC fans need to constantly imply that? Did Pryor end Arguello's career? Did Mercer end Morrison's career? It was bad, bad lost. Personally, I think what it did was internal, mental more than anything. He was in utter disbelief when Steele pulled that stoppage on him, look at his face, frigging sucks to have all your hard work end so questionably.
@09Brant Bottom line is Chavez fought his mandatory #1 challenger. The same guy Taylor wouldve had to fight had he beat Chavez. Hello? Now was El Gran Campeon supposed to fight...what...champions from other divisions while he was waiting for his mandatory defense? As I've said he didnt have to fight anybody, but being the great champion he is he didnt sit on his ass and rest on his laurels, he went on the road and fought journeymen. That's what great champions do in between title fights.
@09Brant This is not so. You & canib are not 99.9%.Go to different blogs & see. I do agree with Duva & the other 3 guys, that after this, Mel was a different fighter.Said here too. From undefeated to 14 & 8, with few ko wins.This is important since here an idiot sissy says "Mel fought a perfect fight, ...totally nullifying Chavez" This despite the ending & consequences.Other guys? I don't know or care. In THIS fight, Mel took terrible punishment that he never recovered totally from.
@gprix Okay, maybe not 99% but this is obviously a topic of debate the boxing world over even until this day.
-Of course "you agree with Duva and the other three guys". You have to. You have convince yourself. I don't think Duva was directly refering ONLY to boxing though.
-And, One can also make the same argument that T took a lot away from JCC as well. EX: Flew to another country to fight club fighters while Mel was not. Lost to Pea arguably and Randall and was very careful after this fight.
@09Brant What do those guys know anyway, right? You of course know better. Again, not "ended", since Mel kept fighting. But look at his whole career after this fight. Not that he fought Primo Ramos, again.
Do you understand JC lost on his, what, 90th fight. Does that make sense to you. And what is wrong with fighting in "another country", Spain.
How do you interpret Duva's words? Seem crystal clear to me. What did he mean, according to you. The rest of your comment (careful) is just plain Nuts
@gprix Gprix'er, there is no talking nice to you, because you immediately get defensive regarding Chavez.
You say he lost on his 90th fight, and I say he never fought a notch above club fighters except possibly 12-15 times, and he arguably lost to Sweet Pea, he lost to Mel if not for Steele, he lost to Randall TWICE, (judges did him a favor the second time figuring he would get the point and retire), and had an early loss on his record overturned..now was that when King signed him?
@09Brant Really funny (unintentionally) Mite. Duva and the Philly guy said Mel should have won. So? What does this have to do with both saying Mel was done after this fight. Nothing. The reversed DQ came at his 12th fight.Nobody gave a hoot about another skinny bantamw.Unknown. Not King, the mafia, NOBODY gave a flying fuck about JC then. If you really believe the rest of your incredibly stupid arguments,...well, you are ripe for the loony bin.
@gprix Yeah, I'm ripe for the looney bin...he got a certified loss on his record overturned. And if you think if the roles were reveresed and it was Steele who called the fight JCC, that King wouldn't have protested like he did in Tokyo?
Again, your picking and choosing from "propaganda" HBO to suit your argument...when it suits you.
Everybody has an opinion, but you have to prove it..or it remains an opinion. So far I see a lot of opinions on here...you have yet to "prove" anything to me.
@09Brant I must admit, some times I believe you have got to be kidding. Regarding the 12th fight, do you know for a fact WHEN the ko punch was delivered? After, during, before the bell? I don't, and I don't care. Mite, is something wrong with you? READ Steele's record, and make up your mind on FACTS, not on hatred.
And this is FACT. Mel was ON the ropes, and never stood apart by himself. He justg couldn't. Believe it or not, I could care less.
@TheChoice264 Uh, you know, I'm not really a football fan. I like the underdog by nature which is why being close to NYC, I never took a liking to the Yankees. I can't root for a team that wins all the time. But, yeah, I'll take or leave the Giants.
Hey, I have a theory that it's all rigged anyway, but that's another topic for another time.
As for Roberto...I have to go back and read your question..hang on...
circus those final moments, and I always felt that he should have spoke about it directly. You know we have a book by Taylor, a documentary, but I wish somebody would put Julio on the spot about this fight. I'm not aware of any interview that would challenge him with the questions/comments that I have you and Gprix'er.
Personally speaking, I wouldn't feel much like a winner going down like this with a questionable "win" with such craziness the final seconds.
@09Brant Mites, he leave the division and then he challenges the Chavez. He should have taken the times off get a few fights and rematch the Chavez. Besides these, he did get he rematch and loss it.
This is so ridiculous and child like for such outstanding fighters that give they all and one man has to lose. I see your questions regards to "final moments" of fight, yes, there are questions, and yes, me agree with some of you issues. But the Meldrick leave division, case closed.
@MarcxMx Canib and Mite are the opitome of the term Chavez Hater. They arent concerned with facts or the truth or common sense. They simply are only concerned with Chavez Hating. They don't care what you say. Taylor left the division and everybody knows why. They'll never face it or admit it. Mite cant even admit Taylor was clutching the rope even though theres a picture of it on the net. He cant even admit that Mel was a beaten fighter when he got up.
@09Brant There is a video right here on youtube Mite called Chavez vs Taylor 1 uploaded by a guy that goes by the account name BrutalFights WHERE THE LOOK OF DOUBT ABOUT IF HE (Chavez) TRULY WON THIS FIGHT IS WRITTEN ALL OVER HIS FACE AND I MENTION IT ON THE VIDEO AND SOME PEOPLE THAT WATCHED THE VIDEO THUMBED ME UP!!!!!
@canibusnj LOL!LOL!LOL! You're back to mind reading again, huh? Funny, I know the look you're talking about,yet I have a completely other mind read on that one. This is yet another example of how pathetic you and Mite are. You mind read. Hey, whatever helps you sleep at night....you...who knows what goes through a fighters mind....as if you've been there done that. LOL! Hey, compare the look on his happy unblemished face to that of Mel's sad "got hit by a windmill" face.
@09Brant Way to totally avoid the Duran question again Mite. Ya did good. Good job. I'd expect nothing less from you. Yeah itd been nice if HBO or some american network would get JC's side of it. Do you really think they want it?
Oh you'd feel more like a winner if you won a fight on paper after the ref gave you the final 2 seconds you didnt earn the right to fight and you were a beaten man saved by the bell? You'd feel good about that?
@TheChoice264 I don't think I avoided the "Duran question"..I told you what I know of him. He also didn't "boast" a career of 100 and something...(cough, cough) 'wins'.
JCC seemed to me to fight mostly a notch above club boxers for the majority of those..."wins". When he stepped up in comp, overall, it's not that flattering from Mel on..except Haugen and Camacho, (I have a theory about that Camacho fight, but I'm sure you don't want to hear it). He also had a close win early in his career.
@09Brant "I dont think I avoided the Duran question".--09Denial. You answered nothing concerning the question. You only talked about him losing to middleweights which have nothing to do with my question regarding his reign as a Lightweight. "He also didnt 'boast' a career of 100 and something".--09Denial. Duran had a record of 103-16. Sorry, I just exposed your ass again. Now, 09Slander look up the word "boast" and provide us the proof when and where JC ever "boasted" of 100 wins.
@09Brant Damn right I said he kept busy because thats what it's called. He had to fight his mandatory challenger the #1 contender. That was his next fight. He chose to fight 2 fights before that. Dont you realize you make no sense and you appear to really be confused about boxing?
"Who was Mel fighting? Answer me. Embarrass yourself"--09Hater.
Ok, you asked for it. I'll tell ya who he fought PRIMO RAMOS INSTEAD OF JULIO CESAR CHAVEZ! Are you happy? You're not doing Mel any favors.
@09Brant You said "I wish JC wouldve personally offered Mel a rematch.". Heu 09Denial. Watch the post-fight interview of Chavez while Mel is getting assisted back to his corner with stretcher in tow. He was the FIRST person to offer and he offered before he was even asked about it. Are you denying that too?
@09Brant I've tried to help you. I've wasted my precious time giving you facts because I truely thought you were just a misinformed lazy minded brat. I had you pegged from the start and I shouldnt have given you benefit of doubt. You're just a pathetic Chavez Hater. You dont want the truth and you couldnt care less. I truely feel sorry for you. I'm done wasting my time with you. It's disrespectful to go out of my way and show you things and you just play a fucking game.
@09Brant A photograph of Mel clutching the rope with his glove and holding it is not an opinion Mite....it's a fucking photograph of Mel holding the rope. A record of Richard Steele's career that clearly shows he reffed more main event fights after JC-Taylor/Tyson-Ruddock than before, and right up until his final year, is not an opinion Mite. It's a documented fact and the cold hard truth. You say JC boast of 100 wins and then turn around and say it was gprix. That's slander. I hate slanderers.
@09Brant You are in complete denial and guilty of slander. And what really pisses me off is that I have a feeling that you're really not that pathetic or dumb and that you may be quite clever actually and you do this shit to simply get your rocks off. That's dis-heartening when people actually gave you the time of day. I'm done with ya. Nothin personal. I wish ya the best. But, I aint playin along anymore. I'll stick with people who actually love boxing and dont play games. Adios Hater
@TheChoice264 SHUT THE FUCK, MESSAGING MITE LIKE YOU'RE OUT YOUR FUCKING MIND, WHICH OBVIOUSLY YOU ARE!!!!! MELDRICK WON THIS FIGHT FAGGOT, CHAVEZ GOT A KNOCKDOWN AND THE WIN ON PAPER, THAT IS IT!!!!!!!
@canibusnj I was trying to get through to the poor soul. I stopped giving him benefit of doubt. He's just a Chavez Hater like you. On win on paper is what Mel wouldve gotten had Steele given you your way. Beating a man so severely and closing the show is how its done son. Thats not a paper win, thats the sweet-science. Watch that last round again. Just beautiful and artistic...calm executioner. The Master at his best. Chavez got much more than a knockdown. He took Mel's heart and soul.
@TheChoice264 "He took Mel's heart and soul" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Yeah and white people are the greatest inventors in the world, I saw a whale riding a horse yesterday and the MSRP of a Bentley is $8000! ROTFLMAO
@canibusnj If I knew your face and I saw you and was absolutely knew it was you,
I would welcome you with a handshake, and invite you into my home. Let me teach you a lesson that your old man must've forgotten to teach you. TALK IS CHEAP. Dont tell people what you WOULD DO IF. Keep it to yourself until the time comes and then do it. Be a thinker,not a stinker. REAL SHIT
Nope, wrong again...Steele "took away T's heart and soul". But, pisses you off and Gprix that JCC didn't, couldn't stop T. He marched on and fought better competion than Chavez. HOW CAN YOU ACTUALLY DENY THIS AFTER VIEWING THEIR RESPECTIVE OPPONENTS SIDE BY SIDE?!
@09Brant What better competition are u talking about.? The ass kicking he got from Terry Norris or the relatively unknown Crispana? Now your changing the subject bc you know this argument for Ts victory is old hat and i bet you secretly know he got his ass whooped u just like to hate on JCC and argue ive seen it a thousand times. Jcc ill admit fought alot of lower competition but he did fight other top competitors. He never ducked anyone and made Camacho, Haugen and Taylor again in 94 look like
@bmillerdrums Oh, do you really want me to line up their records side by side after this robbery?
Are you talking about the virtually unknown Grover Wiley that knocked JCC down face first, then into retirement, or the slightly ...."better", Lonnie Smith who JCC couldn't knock out?
Lost his edge after this robbery, played it safe...too safe. Went from fighting upper leverl club fighters to slightly better, upper level club fighters.
@09Brant Yeah this is silly. Basically i have my strong opinions you have the same just different, its all good. What it boils down to is they were both great fighters who brought the best out in eachother thats why it was fight of the decade. People argue about this like crazy 32 yrs later. So its over at least from me..Peace
@canibusnj And u know what cunt? Mel didnt even want it back. Do you really think it fucking matters if Mel got the win on paper? Give it fucking to him. Make a petition and I'll be the first to sign it. Reverse it and give him this victory that he evidently deserved more than Chavez. GIVE IT TO HIM. It doesnt change a fucking thing. The man still got owned and got the bloody piss beaten out of him. At the end of the night he is still a beaten man. REAL SHIT
@canibusnj DO you REALLY think it matters? Thats what tickles my nuts about you whiny Taylor bitches. Do you really think it matters? Would that make Taylor happy? Could he fucking get over it then and move on if he got his 2 seconds of glory? If so I'm all for it. But do you really think it means ANYTHING in reality? The reality is the man got his fuckin ass handed to him in a big big way. He lost the fight, so give him the decision. I'm all for it. Shut the baby up, and you motherfucker.
@canibusnj Look at you boy....just look at him. Now look at mine and tell me who'd you wanna be at the end of this one. Careful what you ask for. It was a BLESSING Taylor didnt win this fight by Steele letting it continue, and to win that way. That wouldve been shameful. Atleast with this he could cry injustice for the rest of his life and could wait 4 yrs to fight JC again instead of immediately. Your boy lost a fight. Got his ass kicked.
@canibusnj canib, since you know Mel, Does he say HE won the fight? Does HE say he was not koed? Does He say that he could have gotten off the ropes and continue fighting? Does he acknowledge he got the beating of his life?
If you haven't already, please ask him. Let's hear it.
@TheChoice264 LOL, "closed the show with honor"..Are you watching too many soaps? My goodness, the level of denial between two otherwise smart guys like you and Gprix is actually uncanny.
Both men did what they came to do, for sure.
JCC scored a knockdown.
Steele stopped the fight.
"Honor"? No, "honor" would be JCC grabbing the mike and offering a rematch IMMEDIATELY to Taylor because of such a mishandled mistake by an otherwise good ref, who incidentally did the EXACT same thing to Ruddock.
@09Brant "JCC seemed to fight mostly a notch above club boxers for a majority of those 'wins'. ---09 Slander You dont even know what the term "club boxer" means. You dont know the difference between a club boxer and a journeymen or a journey from a trial horse. JC beat no less than 15 world champions and 37 contenders. It took him 44 fights to get a shot and he was brought up right and did it the hard way. Do the math hater. If you dont know shit about boxing dont open your puss.
@09Brant Use your ignorance method with all the great champions who fought over 100 fights and tell me how that suits you. If Chavez was overrated because he fought over 100 fights and most of them were "club boxers" even though he owns the records in Boxing for champions defeated,title fights,contenders defeated(21), most defenses by KO(tied with J.Louis), and undefeated streak, then what does that say for all the men who fought over 100 times and DO NOT own those records?
Once again, Choice, who did he fight worth a second breath? I can count his "good" opponents on possibly one hand and a half. Not to mention he LOST to Sweat Pea, and Taylor I and Randall II, (quit on his stool, the judges thought that was the end of Julio , so they gave him the fight.).
Will you please wake up and take a serious look with leaving your denial aside.
@09Brant If most of JC's wins were from "club boxers" and he holds several world records at the CHAMPIONSHIP LEVEL then what does that sau for the other 100+ fight members? Then they ALL are overrated in your scheme of things. Robinson,LaMotta,Cerdan,Pep,Armstrong,etc. Even the fighters like Whitaker or Taylor or Leonard who barely fought 40 times and less than 30 in their prime. Even 80 percent of their scant career was them just beating "club boxers". Do you realize how ignorant you are?
@09Brant You could say the things you say about ANY fighter. You can say it about ANY fighter who "boast" over 100 wins. What about the guys with damn near 200? Yet, you comically say that 100 wins is nothing to write home about. What a moron. A guy who never fought a fight in his life and never been in a ring against a "club boxer". Nevermind Chavez owns nearly all the records that matter at the championship level.
@09Brant I read where Cliff Rold of the Ring Magazine,who felt JC lost to Whitaker by the way, was judging all-time greats based on skills,opposition,reign,impact,etc.. I didnt agree with a couple things he said but guess what he said nobody could ever take away from Chavez? "What he did in his prime" and "The competition scale weighs heavily in his favor. The man fought a tremendous pool of battle proven talent in a heavily talented era."
@09Brant "There was only 1 YEAR where Chavez didnt face atleast 1 fighter who was not considered among the top 3 of his resident weight class or above it.---Cliff Rold,Ring Magazine. RE-READ that last sentense moron.
@09Brant Knowing that I took the absolute best that a man has on the greatest night of his life and he didnt hurt me once whilst I reduced him to hamburger and KO'd his ass and hurt him...hurt'em real bad like and fought my fight and closed the show like a true champion and did my thing....yeah....I'd feel pretty damn good as I know the Champ did. By the way Chavez offered your boy a rematch before he was even asked immediately after the fight. Deny on Mite...deny on. 09DENIAL
regarding Duva, yet again...you pick and choose what you wanna discuss. He also said that they felt this fight was "jobbed", and he didn't want Steele as the ref. Again, using the debate when it suits you other than that HBO is pretty useless, biased, and racist, huh?
And Ramos was 39-6, and a slugger...that was T's next fight after this robbery.
JCC fought a dude 5-3. How can you possibly justify your argument?
@09Brant It's harder fighting over-seas than in your own country or continent silly ass. No matter who it is. And talk about paranoia! Try it sometime. JC wasnt fighting only club fighters. He was nothing less than the busiest champion of his era. He completely cleaned out the division after the Taylor fight taking all comers. What else could he do? He wasnt big enough to move up in weight. It wasnt natural for him. This man was a real fighter, not these pumped up chumps of today.
@09Brant Now before you start your childish name calling let me try to help u. Chavez was old. A pretty good general rule of thumb is that a fighters prime is the first 10 yrs of his career. You can swear by this. Ex. Muhammad Ali 1960-1970. Marvin Hagler 1973-'83. Julio Cesar Chavez 1980-'90.Duran 1969-'79 Your peak is usually around the 7-10 yr mark. U can still be successful at the highest level for some time afterwards but you'll never be as prime or peak as those years.
@09Brant 09Slander,Oh and one more thing before I let u go. I made u look the fool and exposed you about your lies regarding Steele getting less and less assignments after this and Tyson/Ruddock when in FACT it doubled(ROFL). Now it's my pleasure to expose you again Pal. GOOGLE:Images of Meldrick Taylor. There u will see several images of Mel pop up,one of them being that famous moment as he's turned his head away from Steele,beaten half to death, WITH HIS GLOVE TIGHTLY CLUTCHING THE TOP STRAND!
@09Brant LOL its SO EASY making u look stupid. Sorry, I wouldve "pm'd you" but if I do recall, you antagonized and goaded another gentleman on this very site for "PM'ing" you. So, why would I wanna do that? Ya see? You're a train wreck pal. This fight has really fucked you up and caused you to be shameless. Step away from it for awhile. Go find yourself. Peace
@TheChoice264 YOU'RE A PIECE OF SHIT, YOU FAGGOT ASS FUCK!!!!!! YOU ARE ON HERE REPLYING COUNTLESS TIMES TO MITE AND YOU CALL HIM AMONG OTHER THINGS A TRAIN WRECK, BOY IF I KNEW YOUR FACE AND I SEE YOU ANYWHERE IN PHILLY I WOULD BEAT THE FUCKING POWER BRAKES OFF OF YOUR MISERABLE FUCKING ASS!!!!!
was he overrated/overhyped...I don't know, man. I'm sorry? Julio fought a younger Oscar and even I actually felt sorry for him. Barkley was winning until Duran knocked him down in a close fight. Both Duran and Chavez are so similar, but I lost respect in Julio for this robbery and felt he should have offered an immediate rematch and realized that it was a cluster f**k the closing seconds of the fight. I would've like to see Julio ackowldege this. It was a three ring
@TheChoice264 Check out Morrison vs Quarry at the Hilton Ballroom on ESPN Saturday afternoon right here on YT. Check out the.."crowd"...who was ref'ing....yup, the main eventer, top dog..Steele. POST JCC vs Taylor and Ruddock vs Tyson.
So, no, you have yet to "expose" anything, Steele got less top main event fights
period. He was ref'ing mid-card boozer's on ESPN.
-Nope, wrong again...he NEVER was "tightly clutching the top strand". I debunked that theory, Choice. He used his knees and one..
glove to pull himself up of the mat. Any reply I saw never showed Taylor "tightly" gripping the ropes. This is evident in the replay, and further proves you grasping for a position.
And I say that with all do respect to you. I understand it must test your patience as a boxer and coach to not get through to us, but in this particular situation I have to disagree with you and say it was just a bad, impulsive, panicked callin Chavez' favor.
@09Brant how he pulled himself up is irrelevent. Once he got up is what counts. He fell back into the ring post and held onto the ropes. You cant get a good look at the replay whether he was gripping the rope or not and I admit that,even though it's irrelevent. Regardless his arms were on the ropes and he was using them for assistance. But since you said he wasnt gripping the rope,as if it matters, I still went ahead and found the proof that he was. How can u deny a million dollar pic?
@09Brant I told u how to find the pic and u still are in denial or u do some type of filibustering. You just cant accept the truth can you? Are you ok man? Morrison and a Querry boy in a Vegas ballroom was not a main event? Who was the main event that night? Just curious. Regardless this doesnt prove what you're saying. For christ sake Mite LOOK AT STEELE'S RESUME. Cant you read? Do u absolutely refuse to educate yourself? What u say is simply not true. Dont know how else to say it.
@09Slander Who they fought immediately after this is completely irrelevent in regards to who won this fight, who was the better fighter, or who had the better career after this fight. Not to mention the fact that Taylor immediately abandoned the division instead of fighting for the rematch of his championship belt,(hence,truck loads of money) completely makes any argument you have regarding who took the easy road after this fight completely and utterly moot and devoid of all rationale.
@TheChoice264 -No, I was commenting on the fact that Gprix'er along with all you other JCC fans insist that JCC "ended" T's career. I was providing evidence, and logical examples of how that is not accurate.
-As for the second part of your argument it's false, Choicey. JCC 'took the easy road", look ar his opposition, dude, c'mon.
-According to Wiki, he felt making the weight zapped him of his strength.
-Also, JCC was not making the money he could've by fighting club fighters, man.
@09Brant Chavez gave and restored order to his division. He took all challenges. He ducked nobody. Everytime some chump (Norris,Leonard) or other coward called him out from another division or made comments that theyd like to fight him, Chavez simply always said,"Come get it". All the good Lightweight champions of the era,including Whitaker completely avoided the Jr.Welter division where Chavez was King after Taylor 1. So howd he play it safe when he fought them all,set records, in that class?
Ohhhh....I get it. Taylor couldnt make the weight for the rematch at age 24 but he could at age....28? Oh, I see. Silly me!! What was I thinking? Because THAT makes perfect sense,right? It's so much easier to lose weight the older you get. LOL. Funny, I NEVER recalled Taylor EVER claiming he was having trouble making weight BEFORE the fight. NEVER heard him claim his intentions were to abandon Jr.Welter after his fight with Chavez BEFORE the fight
@09Brant No, what I DO remember hearing him say is how he was gonna unify the division and be the greatest Jr.Welter in boxing history and best fightwer in the world and how they maybe they were gonna put a statue of him next to Rocky's at the Art Musuem. He actually said this shit.I remember Chavez at a fight press conference rolling his eyes at this and proclaiming,"Taylor can throw a million punches I dont care. I will rout them by my will alone.".
@09Brant "T took alot away from JC as well".--09Slander. You fantasize. He did? How? Chavez didnt take anything even remotely close to a beating from Taylor. He got a pretty damn good workout while Taylor got a pretty damn good working over. The 2 tune-ups before his mandatory defense against the #1 challenger in the world is not an example that Taylor took something away from JC. LOL. Is that all you got? Pathetic. Whitaker,Randall?
@09Brant Look 09Slander, let me tell you what got to JC. 13 yrs of being at the top. 80 fights and many,many wars. Fame on par with Elvis and Ali. Bottom line: for as much as you love to talk about his fights with Whitaker, DeLaHoya, and Randall, the fact of the matter, I'm sorry, is that he was old. Lets just keep it real. Chavez was no longer Chavez. He was old. It happens to all fighters. You cant deny it try as you will. I'm tired of dancing around it. He was old. Accept it. Deal with it.
@09Brant Now this isnt written in stone but through my studies of fighters this tends to have substance and hold true. Now, Chavez was ALREADY a H.O.F and a boxing legend before he ever fought Taylor. Chavez couldve retired in 1989 and with his resume gone down as one of the greatest champs in history. He fought Taylor. Do you know he said in 1991 if he couldnt fight Taylor again he wanted to fight Camacho and retire? He'd had 70 FIGHTS and had been a champion for 7 yrs. fighting 5-6 times a yr.
@09Brant My point? Chavez was contemplating retirement because he knew he was getting old and couldnt do the things he was doing,couldnt train the way he used to and his life was much more demanding than he ever couldve imagined. But, he fought on for the money and for the fans and the glory. Even when he could no longer recognize himself he fought on just like Taylor did. Why? "The sarissa's song is a sad song, he pipes it soft and low.I would ply a gentler trade,says he, but war is all I know"
@09Brant 09Slander stop with all your ramblings about the whoopins he took as an old man and then try to say he wasnt an old man.It's lame,it's pathetic.It really eats at you that this fighter could never be had in his youth and prime,that he was considered invincible as he proved in this fight and as Roger Mayweather tried to warn Taylor.It really eats at you so you have to point at his Elvis vegas years.You're shameless. Go goad Ali fans for getting his old ass handed to him by Holmes y dont u
@09Brant Oh and for once have balls and answer a direct question I'm STILL waiting. DO YOU or DONT YOU think/feel that Roberto Duran,whom many feel was the greatest Lightweight in boxing history, was overrated as a Lightweight where he went an incredible 62-1 and defended his title an equally incredible 12 times.?
@TheChoice264 I don't know much about Roberto, except that he was a warrior, blue collar; puncher, like Julio. He got killed against Hearns, but Hagler and he fought a great fight in which Marvin pays him the greatest respect. Hagler and Duran do NOT pay Leonard respect, because Gay Leonard likes to run his way to a victory..which is what Taylor could have done but punched with a natural puncher. Mel was a natural talent but not a natural puncher. Oh, and he was old when he beat Barkly.
@09Brant I know you dont know shit about boxing so let me help you by giving you a list of some tremendously talented, tough, and great fighters he fought as a Lightweight to help you decide if he was overrated or not. 1.)Ernesto Marcel 2.)Hiroshi Kobayashi 3.)Ken Buchanon 4.)Hector Thompson 5.)Esteban DeJesus 6.)Edwin Viruet 7.)Saoul Mamby. This is one hell of a list. Was he overrated?
Mel won another title (did not grant a rematch), decisioned 2 defenses (one split), got koed by a jr middle, lost his title by ko (3rd defense), got koed again by Chavez. His record including this fight is 14 & 8. Denied a license in some places, stumbled along as best he could, until the sad ending we see here.
@eddieg671 Yup, but he was back in the ring four months later fighting better competition than "champion" JCC whol fled the country to fight two club fighters.
Nope, Chavez didn't end Taylor's career. I think Taylor exposed Chavez on many levels one can argue.
i remember seeing this fight live on HBO, March 17th 1990.. i was absolutely shocked when Richard Steele stopped the fight with only seconds to go..he really did rob Taylor of the championship belt and a win against the great Chavez..Steele should've been banned from boxing for life,and how could Lou Duva tell his fighter he needed the last round to win the fight,unbelievably bad advice...
USMC19777 19 hours ago
@USMC19777 The fight was not broadcast live, nor was it a PPV event. The premiere of the fight on HBO was 2 weeks following the fight. Funny how we forget the cold hard facts over time. You didnt watch it live unless you were at the fight.
Your opinion of Steele is based on your sympathy for Taylor, nothing more or less. Steele acted accordingly and did his job. Ask any ref in the world. Banned for life? Heil Hitler!
TheChoice264 2 hours ago
@USMC19777 How could Duva (and the great George Benton) tell his fighter he needed the last round? Simple. They were at the fight ringside and saw the great Chavez pounding the shit outta their boy all night with clean,crisp well-placed shots that score very high and do alot of damage.They also weren't being lead or misinformed by HBO like the viewing audience.They were actually watching the fight coming to their own conclusion. They were aware of the reality of the situation.It was up for grabs
TheChoice264 2 hours ago
@USMC19777 It wouldve been a travesty had Duva and Benton told Taylor to run the last round for a couple reasons. 1.) Taylor was dehydrated,suffering triple vision(this is a documented fact),bleeding interally(fact), and had no legs. He was spent. You cant run from a man who has been specifically trained since he was 12 yrs how to fight runners, who was a master at destroying such fighters(Camacho), and expect to survive in Taylors condition. JC wouldve KO'd even earlier in the round.
TheChoice264 2 hours ago
@USMC19777 2.) You're asking the fighter to give the round away.This was Meldrick Taylor and Julio Cesar Chavez.This fight was still fresh out of the 80's.This, in my opinion, was the last fight of the '80's even though it was in early '90 because this is how they used to do it.This wasnt fucking Oscar DeLahoya and Felix Trinidad.This was fucking Chavez-Taylor. 2 REAL CHAMPIONS. They fought like champions do until the final bell. Taylor went out like a Champ. Chavez closed the show like a Champ
TheChoice264 2 hours ago
The best 3 fighters Taylor faced knocked him out 4 times.
gprix 23 hours ago
@gprix so what your point asshole?!?
canibusnj 20 hours ago
@gprix that's your opinion, what about the club boxers that knocked Julio down face first and forcing him to retire? Who was that guy?
But, regardless, you're wrong yet again.
Taylor knocked out McGirt, nobody thought he could do it. He also beat Garcia by SD in a 12 round slugfest post Chavez I robbery, (Garcia, incidentally was undefeated).
Aaron Davis (who I think beat Vinny Paz, and was no pushover) also lost to Tayler.
So..now what were you saying?
09Brant 9 hours ago
@gprix A boy whom I no longer have respect asked you who the club fighter was that dropped JC to his knee's. That club fighter was H.O.F, Kostya Tzsyu. This goes to show how ignorant this shameless piece of longhorn dung is. Only he knows it. He's just a slanderous spin doctor spewing dis-information and lies or at best half-truths. He's the scum of the earth. Don't reply to this cowardly piece of shit any longer. As you said, dont humor him. Want face first? Watch what Mayweather did to Pea.
TheChoice264 2 hours ago
chavez lo acabo
caraerga 23 hours ago
fucking amatuers. The Whitaker fight was a weird fight he didnt look right in that fight i think drugs and booze combined w almost 100 fight career caught up w him in one night. Add to that the fucking bitch fighting tactics of Pea that night and it was a weak fight. Now if he would of fought JCC the way he fought R Mayweather standing and banging JCC would of KO d the fucking shit out of him. Thats another real solid fighter JCC fucking worked twice.. Bottom line is JCC was the f
bmillerdrums 1 day ago
the hospital with multiple fractures and damage and who spent the night completely ok and went to an after party... I mean if i was in a street fight w Canibusnj and he beat my ass but it was close but if i was the one that went to the hospital and was truly beaten up... There would be no way i could say i won the fight..
bmillerdrums 2 days ago
@bmillerdrums Translated,Chavez once said," I'm economical until the crucial moment. Then I strike with all the violence I possess." circa 1985. Now view this video, at the 0:22-0:32 mark is a perfect example of this. Chavez was always very economical and wasted nothing and then he'd suddenly lower the boom. How many times have we witnessed? So much to learn from this warrior.
TheChoice264 2 days ago
@TheChoice264 Choice, Mite/Brandt has lost his marbles. Spews utter nonsense. To answer this idiot, his same incredibly stupid crap, is to humor him. Fuck him.
When you read this also, Mite, get fucked.
gprix 1 day ago
I think people like Canibusnj turn off the production at around 430 bc if they really listened they would hear that he (i mean Taylor )was never the same.. I think the intelligent people clearly know that Chavez was the harder man that night and thats it... Maybe they see a little of themselves in Taylor. Someone that tried really hard to beat someone and gave there all but came up short to a better man. Who knows? I just cant see how people still defend that position.. Who spent the night in
bmillerdrums 2 days ago
TheChoice264 is one of the only rational intelligent people debating this issue
bmillerdrums 2 days ago
@bmillerdrums Thanks. Yeah, I'm just tired of these shameless fucks who play dumb. Nobody can be that dumb. I even showed a guy a photo or atleast told him where he can view the photo and he actually called that photo of Taylor clutching the top strand with his glove and arm on the rope,hence holding the ropes, an "opinion", not a fact. Really? Fuck him. What a waste of my time. Dont even bother with 09Brant anymore. He's the epitome of Chavez Hater. The worst case I've ever seen.
TheChoice264 2 days ago
@bmillerdrums "TheChoice is one of the only rational intelligent people debating..."
that is your opinion...couldn't be that you both happen to be JCC fans, now, huh?
09Brant 2 days ago
the right thing. There was no corruption involved. Mel didnt answer the question.. Never let go of the ropes probably didnt know where the fuck he was and got caught at the end of a fight he should of stayed away from. Its not Steeles fault its Taylors and his corner. They werent stupid why else would they tell him to fight the last rd. They saw how damaged he was and knew the fight was close. He got caught/clipped when he should of boxed. Blame Mel and fat ass liar Duva not Steele.
bmillerdrums 3 days ago
@bmillerdrums "There was no corruption involved" GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK DUDE!!!!! I WON'T ALLOW YOU TO INSULT MY INTELLIGENCE, SO ANSWER THIS QUESTION FOR ME: WHY DID STEELE LET CHAVEZ WANDER AWAY FROM THE NEUTRAL CORNER WHEN HE WAS GIVING MELDRICK THE COUNT AND NEVER PUT HIM BACK....... BUT JUST KEEP COUNTING LIKE HE DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING?!?!?!?!?
canibusnj 2 days ago
@canibusnj continued: BELIEVE IT OR NOT, I have spoken to Meldrick face to face plenty of times and NO his speech is not crystal clear BUT MELDRICK TALKS BETTER THEN I WOULD SAY HALF OF THESE UNEDUCATED, IGNORANT MISERABLE FUCKS CALLING THEMSELVES AFRICAN AMERICAN MEN!!!!! I THINK I'M GOING TO UPLOAD A GOOD QUALITY VIDEO OF ME TALKING TO HIM IN THE FUTURE!!!! :)
canibusnj 2 days ago
@canibusnj Of course they have to convince themselves that T is "retarded" due to Chavez. ha, ha...Ain't so. T gained his motor skills back after away from the ring for a couple yrs. JUST like Riddick Bowe. Look at a replay of Bowe after his ass taking vs Golota and Holyfield at only 28! Nowadays, no probs.
These ninny's need so badly to convince themselves of pure fantasy.
09Brant 2 days ago
@canibusnj I dont think he "let chavez wander..." that ending is one of most dramatic ever in history. That shit happened so fast and i think he was just mainly focusing on Taylors well being bc he saw the rd by rd breakdown of his body and head. At the time there was also alot of attention on fighter safety bc of the death of a korean fighter fighting Mancini in 85. I think he cared about Mel and saw he was hurt bad and that one more punch could of been potential death. Death dude not a win/ls
bmillerdrums 2 days ago
Its hilarious too that Hbo chooses to show the part of the interview at the end when Taylor put together his only complete coherent sentence.. If u watch the full interview he can barely speak his brain is so scrambled.. He mispronounces words and is a complete mess. Bottom line to this whole argument is Steele didnt know there was 5 sec left.(his mistake for sure) But... Even if there was say 20 sec left if mel was allowed to continue 1 more punch could of ended his life. IT sucks. Steele did
bmillerdrums 3 days ago
@bmillerdrums You're wrong about it being "Steele's mistake for sure" about not knowing how much time was left. It's not his concern to begin with. He has no responsibility to know how much time is left in a round. That is the time keepers job and what the time keeper is paid for. Steele's only job is to make sure the fighters are fighting by the Marquess of Queensbury Rules AND, most importantly, the condition and well-being of the fighters.
TheChoice264 2 days ago
@bmillerdrums Time is completely irrelevent to a ref. The only time a ref concerns himself with time is on a pick-up count and at the sound of the bell to seperate the fighters. REAL SHIT.
Yeah this documentary was a joke just like the HBO fight commentary. Not only was the commentary horrendous but also notice at the end of every round they only show slow motion replay of Taylors fash punches and never JC's bone crushers he was landing all night long. Too funny.
TheChoice264 2 days ago
@bmillerdrums Peace brother. Viva Chavez!!!
TheChoice264 2 days ago
@TheChoice264 Right on... Right on...
bmillerdrums 2 days ago
09denial is the best.. Im pissing myself
bmillerdrums 3 days ago
@bmillerdrums thank you, but I notice all you did was offer opinions, no facts. My opinion is simple: JCC fought mostly a notch above club fighters, won with Steele and Duva's help, (should have walked across the ring and shook Duva's hand).
As far as his "brain being scrambled" that was years of abuse, not one night vs Chavez?!
Steele may have been a professional, but he allowed impulse and panic to misjudge the final moments. He mishandled the final seconds.
09Brant 3 days ago
man mederick gave alot of punches but dam julio landed fucking bone crushers.
BarrioAztrologist89 3 days ago
.com/watch?v=Xab-FaYBtwc
Highestmedal 1 week ago
Fucked up story but Chavez was a monster
Highestmedal 1 week ago
Mel's record before this fight: 24 - 0 - 1. After this fight: 14 - 8 (koed 4 times). This is why Duvas said: "After that it was always on the down side. That loss...that loss did it."
A brilliant carreer down the dumps.
gprix 1 week ago
@gprix I understand that the truth hurts...YOu can't quote Duva and HBO when it suits your side of the debate, YET ignore the context of their whole argument.
It seeths you to the point of insanity, you simply don't have logic or history on your side. It's that simple, Gprix'er, I'm sorry.
Now, that you poorly listed Mel's highlights, (biased) , let's list who JCC fought and the records of his opponents after this farce.
How ya like me now, Charlie Tuna?
09Brant 1 week ago
@09Brant Let's get civil. Aren't you getting things backward? I can't even understand just what you are trying to say here. Why is it important what happened after this fight. JC went to Spain, then came back to fight in Mexico the rest of 1990. Why does this erase or disqualify 115 fights during 25 yrs in the ring. He finally lost 4 yrs after. So?And why is Duva's comment (and the others, I assume you saw the video) out of context?What are you saying,and how is this fight affected.
gprix 1 week ago
@gprix I've been civil, but you get so defensive that it clouds your logic in my opinion.
09Brant 1 week ago
@09Brant That's it?
gprix 1 week ago
@gprix what's it, Love Bug? I'm watching "Storage Wars"...is there really some topic that we DIDN'T discuss over the past two and half years? How pathetic is that BS?
09Brant 1 week ago
@09Brant No answer? That's it?
Storage wars. The "yup" guy is an asshole.
gprix 1 week ago
@gprix FUCK YOU PRICK!!!! COME TO PHILLY AND I'LL THROW YOUR RUSTY ASS DOWN THE DUMPS, YOU PIECE OF SHIT!!!!
canibusnj 1 week ago
@canibusnj Your stupidity is showng. Blow me.
gprix 1 week ago
@gprix FUCK OFF PRICK!!!! :)
canibusnj 1 week ago
@canibusnj Very simple questions, but, since you have NO intelligent answer, you have to ignore them and go to your "gift" silliness, and, oh yeah, insults.
Too bad. Who asked you anyway?
gprix 1 week ago
@gprix For your information since you forgot and probably have Alzhimers or Dementia. I HAVE BEEN REPLYING INTELLIGENTLY TO YOUR IGNORANCE AND STUPIDITY FOR TWO TO THREE YEARS!!!!!
CHAVEZ GOT THE BIGGEST GIFT OF HIS LIFE!!!!
canibusnj 1 week ago
@canibusnj Dementia? You're confusing me with Mel.
Still no answer to 2 very simple questions.
So sad.
gprix 1 week ago
@gprix Mel has pugilistic demetia. YOU HAVE PLAIN DEMENTIA OR ALZHMIERS!!!!!
I ANSWERED YOU QUESTIONS, I'M TIRED OF REPEATING THEM, GO BACK IN THE COMMENT ARCHIVES PRICK!!!!
canibusnj 1 week ago
@canibusnj You mean you are tired of evading them and not answering.
Still with "prick" in your mouth.
Tsk, tsk. Why so angry?
gprix 1 week ago
@gprix NO, I MEANT WHAT I SAID and I'll say prick for as long as I want!!!!
I'm not angry, you are though!!! :)
canibusnj 1 week ago
@canibusnj Actually you're very amusing.
gprix 1 week ago
@gprix And you are also! :)
canibusnj 1 week ago
@canibusnj Since we're both amused, just to humor me, can you or will you give a simple answer to the questions I asked Mite/Brandt? The ones that got you so mad?
Huh? Yes or no.
gprix 1 week ago
@gprix YES, SHOOT PRICK!!!!!!!!
canibusnj 1 week ago
@canibusnj Read them on the previous page.
gprix 1 week ago
@gprix No I'm not searching. YOU TELL ME, YOU ARROGANT PRICK!!!!!!
canibusnj 1 week ago
@canibusnj The ones that made you so angry in the first place, dumbass.
You won't have any semi-intelligent answer anyway.
gprix 1 week ago
@gprix I have given you plenty of intelligent answers gprix and l won't call you prick anymore because one thing I really respect about you is that you don't seem to hate blacks like a lot of Mexicans do.
canibusnj 1 week ago
@canibusnj People who hate other races or nationalities are ignorant and beneath comtempt.
Forget the questions. Ley it lay.
gprix 1 week ago
@gprix That's alright with me. PEACE!!!
canibusnj 1 week ago
@canibusnj Hey dumbfucker hows it goin? I'm not goin to get into a discussion with u on racism,class,or social science in regards to Mexico, for it's quite complex and, quite frankly, over your peanut head. Mexico is no different than any other country and they dont try and pretend to be, in regards to racism and social status. There are dumbfuck racist's like u everywhere the world over. Why do u try to paint a picture that they hide it? They dont.
TheChoice264 4 days ago
@canibusnj Where you are wrong is that u think Mexicans discriminate when it comes to their beloved warriors. THEY DO NOT!! It don't matter if you're damn near black like my favorite fighter growing up in the early '80's, The Indian from Cuajimalpa, or dark skinned like Jose Luis Ramirez, or bronze like Sanchez and Chavez or white like Alvarez, if u box in Mexico, you're highly respected regardless of color.
TheChoice264 4 days ago
@canibusnj The reason why Alvarez is so popular in Mexico has next to nothing to do with Mexico and EVERYTHING to do with the U.S.! HBO and the U.S have sold Alvarez to Mexico. It's HBO who love the freckles,white skin, and red hair.HBO created the phenomena just as they have for other fighters who dont deserve the attention and accolades. Since HBO has thrown in with Alvarez and made him the chosen one, OF COURSE Mexico is going to support him because he's representing the country.
TheChoice264 4 days ago
@canibusnj Its as simple as that. I don't care if an indigenous boxer from Mexico came along or one of the much looked down upon Afro-mexicans living on the coast's that were brought over by the Spaniards as slaves in the 1500's came along out of Mexico. IF HBO threw in with them and built up their star power and said here's the next great thing out of Mexico, then he'd be every bit as popular as Canelo Alvarez. A mexican warrior is a mexican warrior. Class and race have no place....in the ring.
TheChoice264 4 days ago
@canibusnj So dont blame and accuse Mexico but your own damn country fool. We takin what u givin us. You given us Alvarez and Jr. Yes, we love Jr. because he's the son of the Legend and great warrior, The Lion of Culiacan. But, Jr. and Alvarez gotta show us something. They got heart, but do they have the goods? Typically i'd say no, but in this day and age...what are the goods when talking the youngins? Say hello to Merldrick for me. Great Jr.Welter. Too bad he wasted his career at Welterweight.
TheChoice264 4 days ago
@canibusnj You can't speak "intelligence" to a grown man who continues to need to live in denial. I laid th ebare facts out straight up to him, and yet, he insists on looking the other way.
"Mel went to the ER". Yes, he did, back in the ring 4 months later.
"JCC stopped his career." Debunked.
I can go on and on, but denial is a dangerous thing. Rememebr, you can't convince someone against their will.
09Brant 1 week ago
Comment removed
gprix 1 week ago
@09Brant What facts are those. It took you 2 days to think of an answer. Could not do it, so you resort to fantasy. And, for the record, I never said JC "stopped his career". What I did say, is that after this Mel came down from sure all-time great to just another guy who won another title, and lost it in his 3rd defense. The same thing the Philly guy, the 2 Sports I guys, and Duva himself say in that video that you refuse to watch or acknowledge.And I sure don't want to convince you.
gprix 1 week ago
@gprix No, whiner, mama's boy..it's not called, "it took me two days to answer". It's called:
1) I've had an answer for you and Choice any and every time..which is why you sulk and post me swear words and pout like a bitch..(pretty much like Chavez did after Randall handed him his fourth loss, or like Oscar did by shuting him up, literally by pounding his mouth in that second fight..)
2) Don't know about you, but I work for a living and am a single father, can't be on here 24/7 like some one.
09Brant 1 week ago
@09Brant No wonder your single. You are a douchebag and, you do not know what you are talking about. Feel sorry for your kid.
inbloom97 6 days ago
@09Brant Again, just WHAT are you trying to say. Make up your mind.
Yes, Mel fought again, Primo R for the 2nd time, won his title (dec), defended it twice (dec, 1 split) and lost it the 3rd time. A lot different from pre-Chavez Mel (undefeated).
I wish him well. Not you, a huge asshole.
gprix 1 week ago
@gprix No, sir, make up your mind. You are saying that JCC ended T's career. This is simply not logical, historical or even remotely factual. I have listed their respective opponents side by side on here and it's too embarrassing for you and Choice to comment on..so you revert back to the same juvenile mantra.
Look at T's opponents' records, ok? Now, do the same for JCC? Who played it safe? T was still slugging it out while JCC was boxing club fighters as "champion" half way across the world.
09Brant 1 week ago
@09Brant This is so lame. Just why in the world is it SO important who fought who AFTER this ko. Mel went 14 -8. Chavez, well, take a look. And even so, what would this prove. Keep ignoring what Duva and the other guys said regarding this fight, which is the same I've posted.Canib at least think they are wrong, and they owe Mel an apology. What sin did JC commit by going to Spain.
You know, why am I humoring you, a total idiot, Bye.
gprix 5 days ago
@gprix Listen to me carefully, and read carefully. It DOES matter and I'll explain to you why: T was NOT a power puncher, yet he fought mostly (except for Ernie Chavez) power punchers this includes Chavez. Unlike Pernell Sweat Pea, who was able to anger JCC by being a moving target, T stood toe-to-toe with him, (and Norris, go figure)?
Post Chavez I, Taylor went on a win streak of power punchers, (This is when he should have taken it easy, got his rythm back). Yes, you're right, most by ...
09Brant 5 days ago
@09Brant Let me use your insanity against you. Pernel Whitaker, after losing a hotly disputed decision to the great champion Jose Luis Ramirez, immediately fought Antonio Carter, who had an 3-8-1 record, in the cozy confines of his hometown of virginia beach. Ramirez immediately fought a guy named Julio Cesar Chavez who was considered the baddest man on the planet south of the heavyweight division. What does your illogic say about that?
TheChoice264 5 days ago
@09Brant Look up any fighters resume and you'll find that fighters fight journeymen even after theyre champion, they have to. Its called going to work. You cant fight everybody and you have to fight your mandatories. The question is not who Chavez fought, but why Taylor ran from him and killing any chance of a rematch for his title. Ask yourself why he fought Chavez 4 yrs later at the same weight as 1990 when he couldve done it in 1990-91?
TheChoice264 5 days ago
@09Brant I dont want an answer from you.I was just pointing out your insanity.You'd only give more of your illogical,fanatical,irrational,ludicrous bullshit anyway.I would like to ask you a question though that I would like an answer from you.This is alittle change of pace and off the topic of Chavez-Taylor.Most boxing afficionados consider Roberto Duran the greatest Lightweight Champion in Boxing history.He fought his entire prime in that division.He went 72-1. Do u think he was overrated?
TheChoice264 4 days ago
@gprix ..continued...
decision victory , but I'm trying to point out the calibur of boxers, (ok, Brown was not a power puncher, he was a counter puncher), But Davis was no bum, neither was Garcia and even Ramos...T was a little guy in a big man's sport.
Now, on to JCC post Taylor I:
I don't need to rehash it. Do I?
So, Duva, or whomever certainly has their right to a opinion, but I'm telling you, it is not so. Duva gave this interview AFTER T's career, not when he was still training him.
09Brant 5 days ago
@gprix ..continued..
Now, I'll use your same logic AGAINST you: Why does it matter so much that you and many JCC fans need to constantly imply that? Did Pryor end Arguello's career? Did Mercer end Morrison's career? It was bad, bad lost. Personally, I think what it did was internal, mental more than anything. He was in utter disbelief when Steele pulled that stoppage on him, look at his face, frigging sucks to have all your hard work end so questionably.
09Brant 5 days ago
@09Brant Bottom line is Chavez fought his mandatory #1 challenger. The same guy Taylor wouldve had to fight had he beat Chavez. Hello? Now was El Gran Campeon supposed to fight...what...champions from other divisions while he was waiting for his mandatory defense? As I've said he didnt have to fight anybody, but being the great champion he is he didnt sit on his ass and rest on his laurels, he went on the road and fought journeymen. That's what great champions do in between title fights.
TheChoice264 5 days ago
@gprix ..and before you scream at me, I said.."questionably". 99.9% of people believe the fight ended "questionably".
09Brant 5 days ago
@09Brant This is not so. You & canib are not 99.9%.Go to different blogs & see. I do agree with Duva & the other 3 guys, that after this, Mel was a different fighter.Said here too. From undefeated to 14 & 8, with few ko wins.This is important since here an idiot sissy says "Mel fought a perfect fight, ...totally nullifying Chavez" This despite the ending & consequences.Other guys? I don't know or care. In THIS fight, Mel took terrible punishment that he never recovered totally from.
gprix 5 days ago
@gprix Okay, maybe not 99% but this is obviously a topic of debate the boxing world over even until this day.
-Of course "you agree with Duva and the other three guys". You have to. You have convince yourself. I don't think Duva was directly refering ONLY to boxing though.
-And, One can also make the same argument that T took a lot away from JCC as well. EX: Flew to another country to fight club fighters while Mel was not. Lost to Pea arguably and Randall and was very careful after this fight.
09Brant 4 days ago
@09Brant What do those guys know anyway, right? You of course know better. Again, not "ended", since Mel kept fighting. But look at his whole career after this fight. Not that he fought Primo Ramos, again.
Do you understand JC lost on his, what, 90th fight. Does that make sense to you. And what is wrong with fighting in "another country", Spain.
How do you interpret Duva's words? Seem crystal clear to me. What did he mean, according to you. The rest of your comment (careful) is just plain Nuts
gprix 4 days ago
@gprix Gprix'er, there is no talking nice to you, because you immediately get defensive regarding Chavez.
You say he lost on his 90th fight, and I say he never fought a notch above club fighters except possibly 12-15 times, and he arguably lost to Sweet Pea, he lost to Mel if not for Steele, he lost to Randall TWICE, (judges did him a favor the second time figuring he would get the point and retire), and had an early loss on his record overturned..now was that when King signed him?
09Brant 3 days ago
@09Brant Really funny (unintentionally) Mite. Duva and the Philly guy said Mel should have won. So? What does this have to do with both saying Mel was done after this fight. Nothing. The reversed DQ came at his 12th fight.Nobody gave a hoot about another skinny bantamw.Unknown. Not King, the mafia, NOBODY gave a flying fuck about JC then. If you really believe the rest of your incredibly stupid arguments,...well, you are ripe for the loony bin.
gprix 3 days ago
@gprix Yeah, I'm ripe for the looney bin...he got a certified loss on his record overturned. And if you think if the roles were reveresed and it was Steele who called the fight JCC, that King wouldn't have protested like he did in Tokyo?
Again, your picking and choosing from "propaganda" HBO to suit your argument...when it suits you.
Everybody has an opinion, but you have to prove it..or it remains an opinion. So far I see a lot of opinions on here...you have yet to "prove" anything to me.
09Brant 3 days ago
@09Brant I must admit, some times I believe you have got to be kidding. Regarding the 12th fight, do you know for a fact WHEN the ko punch was delivered? After, during, before the bell? I don't, and I don't care. Mite, is something wrong with you? READ Steele's record, and make up your mind on FACTS, not on hatred.
And this is FACT. Mel was ON the ropes, and never stood apart by himself. He justg couldn't. Believe it or not, I could care less.
Try answering, instead of changing the subject.
gprix 3 days ago
@09Brant U a Giants fan Mite? Hey, U ever gonna answer my question regarding Duran? By the way, I think Canib has a crush on you.
TheChoice264 3 days ago
@TheChoice264 Uh, you know, I'm not really a football fan. I like the underdog by nature which is why being close to NYC, I never took a liking to the Yankees. I can't root for a team that wins all the time. But, yeah, I'll take or leave the Giants.
Hey, I have a theory that it's all rigged anyway, but that's another topic for another time.
As for Roberto...I have to go back and read your question..hang on...
09Brant 3 days ago
@TheChoice264 ..continued..
circus those final moments, and I always felt that he should have spoke about it directly. You know we have a book by Taylor, a documentary, but I wish somebody would put Julio on the spot about this fight. I'm not aware of any interview that would challenge him with the questions/comments that I have you and Gprix'er.
Personally speaking, I wouldn't feel much like a winner going down like this with a questionable "win" with such craziness the final seconds.
09Brant 3 days ago
@09Brant Mites, he leave the division and then he challenges the Chavez. He should have taken the times off get a few fights and rematch the Chavez. Besides these, he did get he rematch and loss it.
This is so ridiculous and child like for such outstanding fighters that give they all and one man has to lose. I see your questions regards to "final moments" of fight, yes, there are questions, and yes, me agree with some of you issues. But the Meldrick leave division, case closed.
MarcxMx 3 days ago
@MarcxMx Canib and Mite are the opitome of the term Chavez Hater. They arent concerned with facts or the truth or common sense. They simply are only concerned with Chavez Hating. They don't care what you say. Taylor left the division and everybody knows why. They'll never face it or admit it. Mite cant even admit Taylor was clutching the rope even though theres a picture of it on the net. He cant even admit that Mel was a beaten fighter when he got up.
TheChoice264 3 days ago
@09Brant There is a video right here on youtube Mite called Chavez vs Taylor 1 uploaded by a guy that goes by the account name BrutalFights WHERE THE LOOK OF DOUBT ABOUT IF HE (Chavez) TRULY WON THIS FIGHT IS WRITTEN ALL OVER HIS FACE AND I MENTION IT ON THE VIDEO AND SOME PEOPLE THAT WATCHED THE VIDEO THUMBED ME UP!!!!!
canibusnj 3 days ago
@canibusnj LOL!LOL!LOL! You're back to mind reading again, huh? Funny, I know the look you're talking about,yet I have a completely other mind read on that one. This is yet another example of how pathetic you and Mite are. You mind read. Hey, whatever helps you sleep at night....you...who knows what goes through a fighters mind....as if you've been there done that. LOL! Hey, compare the look on his happy unblemished face to that of Mel's sad "got hit by a windmill" face.
TheChoice264 3 days ago
@09Brant Way to totally avoid the Duran question again Mite. Ya did good. Good job. I'd expect nothing less from you. Yeah itd been nice if HBO or some american network would get JC's side of it. Do you really think they want it?
Oh you'd feel more like a winner if you won a fight on paper after the ref gave you the final 2 seconds you didnt earn the right to fight and you were a beaten man saved by the bell? You'd feel good about that?
TheChoice264 3 days ago
@TheChoice264 I don't think I avoided the "Duran question"..I told you what I know of him. He also didn't "boast" a career of 100 and something...(cough, cough) 'wins'.
JCC seemed to me to fight mostly a notch above club boxers for the majority of those..."wins". When he stepped up in comp, overall, it's not that flattering from Mel on..except Haugen and Camacho, (I have a theory about that Camacho fight, but I'm sure you don't want to hear it). He also had a close win early in his career.
09Brant 3 days ago
@09Brant "I dont think I avoided the Duran question".--09Denial. You answered nothing concerning the question. You only talked about him losing to middleweights which have nothing to do with my question regarding his reign as a Lightweight. "He also didnt 'boast' a career of 100 and something".--09Denial. Duran had a record of 103-16. Sorry, I just exposed your ass again. Now, 09Slander look up the word "boast" and provide us the proof when and where JC ever "boasted" of 100 wins.
TheChoice264 3 days ago
@TheChoice264
Maybe not JCC, but Gprix always brings it up. And my response is, his quality means nothing compared to Duran's quality.
What do you want me to say?
09Brant 3 days ago
@TheChoice264 Nope, you've "exposed" how angry you're getting, and how you have no comebacks other than personal opinion. Just like the rest of us.
09Brant 3 days ago
@TheChoice264 sorry, mistake...JCC foughtt quaniity...
you say he "kept busy" LOL.....ROFL!!!! yup by fighting two club fighters after this robbery as "champion" with a total wijn record of "8".
Who was Mel fighting?
Answer me. Embarrass yourself.
09Brant 3 days ago
@09Brant Damn right I said he kept busy because thats what it's called. He had to fight his mandatory challenger the #1 contender. That was his next fight. He chose to fight 2 fights before that. Dont you realize you make no sense and you appear to really be confused about boxing?
"Who was Mel fighting? Answer me. Embarrass yourself"--09Hater.
Ok, you asked for it. I'll tell ya who he fought PRIMO RAMOS INSTEAD OF JULIO CESAR CHAVEZ! Are you happy? You're not doing Mel any favors.
TheChoice264 2 days ago
@09Brant You said "I wish JC wouldve personally offered Mel a rematch.". Heu 09Denial. Watch the post-fight interview of Chavez while Mel is getting assisted back to his corner with stretcher in tow. He was the FIRST person to offer and he offered before he was even asked about it. Are you denying that too?
TheChoice264 2 days ago
@09Brant I've tried to help you. I've wasted my precious time giving you facts because I truely thought you were just a misinformed lazy minded brat. I had you pegged from the start and I shouldnt have given you benefit of doubt. You're just a pathetic Chavez Hater. You dont want the truth and you couldnt care less. I truely feel sorry for you. I'm done wasting my time with you. It's disrespectful to go out of my way and show you things and you just play a fucking game.
TheChoice264 2 days ago
@09Brant A photograph of Mel clutching the rope with his glove and holding it is not an opinion Mite....it's a fucking photograph of Mel holding the rope. A record of Richard Steele's career that clearly shows he reffed more main event fights after JC-Taylor/Tyson-Ruddock than before, and right up until his final year, is not an opinion Mite. It's a documented fact and the cold hard truth. You say JC boast of 100 wins and then turn around and say it was gprix. That's slander. I hate slanderers.
TheChoice264 2 days ago
@09Brant You are in complete denial and guilty of slander. And what really pisses me off is that I have a feeling that you're really not that pathetic or dumb and that you may be quite clever actually and you do this shit to simply get your rocks off. That's dis-heartening when people actually gave you the time of day. I'm done with ya. Nothin personal. I wish ya the best. But, I aint playin along anymore. I'll stick with people who actually love boxing and dont play games. Adios Hater
TheChoice264 2 days ago
@TheChoice264 SHUT THE FUCK, MESSAGING MITE LIKE YOU'RE OUT YOUR FUCKING MIND, WHICH OBVIOUSLY YOU ARE!!!!! MELDRICK WON THIS FIGHT FAGGOT, CHAVEZ GOT A KNOCKDOWN AND THE WIN ON PAPER, THAT IS IT!!!!!!!
canibusnj 2 days ago
@canibusnj I was trying to get through to the poor soul. I stopped giving him benefit of doubt. He's just a Chavez Hater like you. On win on paper is what Mel wouldve gotten had Steele given you your way. Beating a man so severely and closing the show is how its done son. Thats not a paper win, thats the sweet-science. Watch that last round again. Just beautiful and artistic...calm executioner. The Master at his best. Chavez got much more than a knockdown. He took Mel's heart and soul.
TheChoice264 2 days ago
@TheChoice264 "He took Mel's heart and soul" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Yeah and white people are the greatest inventors in the world, I saw a whale riding a horse yesterday and the MSRP of a Bentley is $8000! ROTFLMAO
canibusnj 2 days ago
@canibusnj If I knew your face and I saw you and was absolutely knew it was you,
I would welcome you with a handshake, and invite you into my home. Let me teach you a lesson that your old man must've forgotten to teach you. TALK IS CHEAP. Dont tell people what you WOULD DO IF. Keep it to yourself until the time comes and then do it. Be a thinker,not a stinker. REAL SHIT
TheChoice264 2 days ago
@TheChoice264
Nope, wrong again...Steele "took away T's heart and soul". But, pisses you off and Gprix that JCC didn't, couldn't stop T. He marched on and fought better competion than Chavez. HOW CAN YOU ACTUALLY DENY THIS AFTER VIEWING THEIR RESPECTIVE OPPONENTS SIDE BY SIDE?!
Denial?
09Brant 2 days ago
@09Brant What better competition are u talking about.? The ass kicking he got from Terry Norris or the relatively unknown Crispana? Now your changing the subject bc you know this argument for Ts victory is old hat and i bet you secretly know he got his ass whooped u just like to hate on JCC and argue ive seen it a thousand times. Jcc ill admit fought alot of lower competition but he did fight other top competitors. He never ducked anyone and made Camacho, Haugen and Taylor again in 94 look like
bmillerdrums 1 day ago
@bmillerdrums Oh, do you really want me to line up their records side by side after this robbery?
Are you talking about the virtually unknown Grover Wiley that knocked JCC down face first, then into retirement, or the slightly ...."better", Lonnie Smith who JCC couldn't knock out?
Lost his edge after this robbery, played it safe...too safe. Went from fighting upper leverl club fighters to slightly better, upper level club fighters.
I say this with all do respect. Thanks.
09Brant 1 day ago
@09Brant Yeah this is silly. Basically i have my strong opinions you have the same just different, its all good. What it boils down to is they were both great fighters who brought the best out in eachother thats why it was fight of the decade. People argue about this like crazy 32 yrs later. So its over at least from me..Peace
bmillerdrums 21 hours ago
@canibusnj And u know what cunt? Mel didnt even want it back. Do you really think it fucking matters if Mel got the win on paper? Give it fucking to him. Make a petition and I'll be the first to sign it. Reverse it and give him this victory that he evidently deserved more than Chavez. GIVE IT TO HIM. It doesnt change a fucking thing. The man still got owned and got the bloody piss beaten out of him. At the end of the night he is still a beaten man. REAL SHIT
TheChoice264 2 days ago
@canibusnj DO you REALLY think it matters? Thats what tickles my nuts about you whiny Taylor bitches. Do you really think it matters? Would that make Taylor happy? Could he fucking get over it then and move on if he got his 2 seconds of glory? If so I'm all for it. But do you really think it means ANYTHING in reality? The reality is the man got his fuckin ass handed to him in a big big way. He lost the fight, so give him the decision. I'm all for it. Shut the baby up, and you motherfucker.
TheChoice264 2 days ago
@canibusnj Look at you boy....just look at him. Now look at mine and tell me who'd you wanna be at the end of this one. Careful what you ask for. It was a BLESSING Taylor didnt win this fight by Steele letting it continue, and to win that way. That wouldve been shameful. Atleast with this he could cry injustice for the rest of his life and could wait 4 yrs to fight JC again instead of immediately. Your boy lost a fight. Got his ass kicked.
TheChoice264 2 days ago
@canibusnj canib, since you know Mel, Does he say HE won the fight? Does HE say he was not koed? Does He say that he could have gotten off the ropes and continue fighting? Does he acknowledge he got the beating of his life?
If you haven't already, please ask him. Let's hear it.
gprix 2 days ago
@canibusnj Did he? Did he boy? He get that ass hit or what? And you know what i mean by "hit" Now tell me im wrong.
TheChoice264 2 days ago
@canibusnj Yeah ask him to why,as a champion, he'd have in honor in winning like that. LOL. Cant wait to hear this one.
TheChoice264 2 days ago
@canibusnj Win or lose Chavez closed the show with honor. I'll take that anyday over Taylors ass kicked
TheChoice264 2 days ago
@TheChoice264 WELL LET ME PUT IT LIKE THIS, IF I KNEW YOUR FACE AND I SAW YOU IN PHILLY AND WAS ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE IT WAS YOU,
I WOULD BEAT THE FUCK OUT OF YOU!!!!!!!!!
canibusnj 2 days ago
@TheChoice264 CONTINUED: OH..... AND BY THE WAY DICK STEELE CLOSED THE SHOW! CHAVEZ GOT A KNOCKDOWN AFTER LOSING ROUND AFTER ROUND!
canibusnj 2 days ago
@TheChoice264 LOL, "closed the show with honor"..Are you watching too many soaps? My goodness, the level of denial between two otherwise smart guys like you and Gprix is actually uncanny.
Both men did what they came to do, for sure.
JCC scored a knockdown.
Steele stopped the fight.
"Honor"? No, "honor" would be JCC grabbing the mike and offering a rematch IMMEDIATELY to Taylor because of such a mishandled mistake by an otherwise good ref, who incidentally did the EXACT same thing to Ruddock.
09Brant 2 days ago
@09Brant "JCC seemed to fight mostly a notch above club boxers for a majority of those 'wins'. ---09 Slander You dont even know what the term "club boxer" means. You dont know the difference between a club boxer and a journeymen or a journey from a trial horse. JC beat no less than 15 world champions and 37 contenders. It took him 44 fights to get a shot and he was brought up right and did it the hard way. Do the math hater. If you dont know shit about boxing dont open your puss.
TheChoice264 3 days ago
@09Brant Use your ignorance method with all the great champions who fought over 100 fights and tell me how that suits you. If Chavez was overrated because he fought over 100 fights and most of them were "club boxers" even though he owns the records in Boxing for champions defeated,title fights,contenders defeated(21), most defenses by KO(tied with J.Louis), and undefeated streak, then what does that say for all the men who fought over 100 times and DO NOT own those records?
TheChoice264 2 days ago
@TheChoice264
"he owns the records in Boxing for..' -Choice.
Once again, Choice, who did he fight worth a second breath? I can count his "good" opponents on possibly one hand and a half. Not to mention he LOST to Sweat Pea, and Taylor I and Randall II, (quit on his stool, the judges thought that was the end of Julio , so they gave him the fight.).
Will you please wake up and take a serious look with leaving your denial aside.
09Brant 2 days ago
@09Brant If most of JC's wins were from "club boxers" and he holds several world records at the CHAMPIONSHIP LEVEL then what does that sau for the other 100+ fight members? Then they ALL are overrated in your scheme of things. Robinson,LaMotta,Cerdan,Pep,Armstrong,etc. Even the fighters like Whitaker or Taylor or Leonard who barely fought 40 times and less than 30 in their prime. Even 80 percent of their scant career was them just beating "club boxers". Do you realize how ignorant you are?
TheChoice264 2 days ago
@09Brant You could say the things you say about ANY fighter. You can say it about ANY fighter who "boast" over 100 wins. What about the guys with damn near 200? Yet, you comically say that 100 wins is nothing to write home about. What a moron. A guy who never fought a fight in his life and never been in a ring against a "club boxer". Nevermind Chavez owns nearly all the records that matter at the championship level.
TheChoice264 2 days ago
@09Brant I read where Cliff Rold of the Ring Magazine,who felt JC lost to Whitaker by the way, was judging all-time greats based on skills,opposition,reign,impact,etc.. I didnt agree with a couple things he said but guess what he said nobody could ever take away from Chavez? "What he did in his prime" and "The competition scale weighs heavily in his favor. The man fought a tremendous pool of battle proven talent in a heavily talented era."
TheChoice264 2 days ago
@09Brant "There was only 1 YEAR where Chavez didnt face atleast 1 fighter who was not considered among the top 3 of his resident weight class or above it.---Cliff Rold,Ring Magazine. RE-READ that last sentense moron.
TheChoice264 2 days ago
@09Brant Knowing that I took the absolute best that a man has on the greatest night of his life and he didnt hurt me once whilst I reduced him to hamburger and KO'd his ass and hurt him...hurt'em real bad like and fought my fight and closed the show like a true champion and did my thing....yeah....I'd feel pretty damn good as I know the Champ did. By the way Chavez offered your boy a rematch before he was even asked immediately after the fight. Deny on Mite...deny on. 09DENIAL
TheChoice264 3 days ago
@TheChoice264 your full of sh*t times two...Chavez got that "win on paper only" because in part of Steele.
Chavez knocked Mel down, Mel got up from this....famous right hand. Steele ko'd him, lol.
you keep on digging, babe..
09Brant 3 days ago
@gprix ..continued..
regarding Duva, yet again...you pick and choose what you wanna discuss. He also said that they felt this fight was "jobbed", and he didn't want Steele as the ref. Again, using the debate when it suits you other than that HBO is pretty useless, biased, and racist, huh?
And Ramos was 39-6, and a slugger...that was T's next fight after this robbery.
JCC fought a dude 5-3. How can you possibly justify your argument?
09Brant 3 days ago
@09Brant Yawn.
gprix 3 days ago
@09Brant It's harder fighting over-seas than in your own country or continent silly ass. No matter who it is. And talk about paranoia! Try it sometime. JC wasnt fighting only club fighters. He was nothing less than the busiest champion of his era. He completely cleaned out the division after the Taylor fight taking all comers. What else could he do? He wasnt big enough to move up in weight. It wasnt natural for him. This man was a real fighter, not these pumped up chumps of today.
TheChoice264 4 days ago
@09Brant Now before you start your childish name calling let me try to help u. Chavez was old. A pretty good general rule of thumb is that a fighters prime is the first 10 yrs of his career. You can swear by this. Ex. Muhammad Ali 1960-1970. Marvin Hagler 1973-'83. Julio Cesar Chavez 1980-'90.Duran 1969-'79 Your peak is usually around the 7-10 yr mark. U can still be successful at the highest level for some time afterwards but you'll never be as prime or peak as those years.
TheChoice264 4 days ago
@09Brant 09Slander,Oh and one more thing before I let u go. I made u look the fool and exposed you about your lies regarding Steele getting less and less assignments after this and Tyson/Ruddock when in FACT it doubled(ROFL). Now it's my pleasure to expose you again Pal. GOOGLE:Images of Meldrick Taylor. There u will see several images of Mel pop up,one of them being that famous moment as he's turned his head away from Steele,beaten half to death, WITH HIS GLOVE TIGHTLY CLUTCHING THE TOP STRAND!
TheChoice264 4 days ago
@09Brant LOL its SO EASY making u look stupid. Sorry, I wouldve "pm'd you" but if I do recall, you antagonized and goaded another gentleman on this very site for "PM'ing" you. So, why would I wanna do that? Ya see? You're a train wreck pal. This fight has really fucked you up and caused you to be shameless. Step away from it for awhile. Go find yourself. Peace
TheChoice264 4 days ago
@TheChoice264 YOU'RE A PIECE OF SHIT, YOU FAGGOT ASS FUCK!!!!!! YOU ARE ON HERE REPLYING COUNTLESS TIMES TO MITE AND YOU CALL HIM AMONG OTHER THINGS A TRAIN WRECK, BOY IF I KNEW YOUR FACE AND I SEE YOU ANYWHERE IN PHILLY I WOULD BEAT THE FUCKING POWER BRAKES OFF OF YOUR MISERABLE FUCKING ASS!!!!!
FUCK YOU AND YOUR LIFE!!!!!
canibusnj 3 days ago
@canibusnj Real intelligent.
TheChoice264 3 days ago
@TheChoice264 ..continued..
was he overrated/overhyped...I don't know, man. I'm sorry? Julio fought a younger Oscar and even I actually felt sorry for him. Barkley was winning until Duran knocked him down in a close fight. Both Duran and Chavez are so similar, but I lost respect in Julio for this robbery and felt he should have offered an immediate rematch and realized that it was a cluster f**k the closing seconds of the fight. I would've like to see Julio ackowldege this. It was a three ring
09Brant 3 days ago
@TheChoice264 Check out Morrison vs Quarry at the Hilton Ballroom on ESPN Saturday afternoon right here on YT. Check out the.."crowd"...who was ref'ing....yup, the main eventer, top dog..Steele. POST JCC vs Taylor and Ruddock vs Tyson.
So, no, you have yet to "expose" anything, Steele got less top main event fights
period. He was ref'ing mid-card boozer's on ESPN.
-Nope, wrong again...he NEVER was "tightly clutching the top strand". I debunked that theory, Choice. He used his knees and one..
09Brant 3 days ago
@TheChoice264 ..continued..
glove to pull himself up of the mat. Any reply I saw never showed Taylor "tightly" gripping the ropes. This is evident in the replay, and further proves you grasping for a position.
And I say that with all do respect to you. I understand it must test your patience as a boxer and coach to not get through to us, but in this particular situation I have to disagree with you and say it was just a bad, impulsive, panicked callin Chavez' favor.
09Brant 3 days ago
@09Brant how he pulled himself up is irrelevent. Once he got up is what counts. He fell back into the ring post and held onto the ropes. You cant get a good look at the replay whether he was gripping the rope or not and I admit that,even though it's irrelevent. Regardless his arms were on the ropes and he was using them for assistance. But since you said he wasnt gripping the rope,as if it matters, I still went ahead and found the proof that he was. How can u deny a million dollar pic?
TheChoice264 3 days ago
@09Brant I told u how to find the pic and u still are in denial or u do some type of filibustering. You just cant accept the truth can you? Are you ok man? Morrison and a Querry boy in a Vegas ballroom was not a main event? Who was the main event that night? Just curious. Regardless this doesnt prove what you're saying. For christ sake Mite LOOK AT STEELE'S RESUME. Cant you read? Do u absolutely refuse to educate yourself? What u say is simply not true. Dont know how else to say it.
TheChoice264 3 days ago
@09Slander Who they fought immediately after this is completely irrelevent in regards to who won this fight, who was the better fighter, or who had the better career after this fight. Not to mention the fact that Taylor immediately abandoned the division instead of fighting for the rematch of his championship belt,(hence,truck loads of money) completely makes any argument you have regarding who took the easy road after this fight completely and utterly moot and devoid of all rationale.
TheChoice264 5 days ago
@TheChoice264 -No, I was commenting on the fact that Gprix'er along with all you other JCC fans insist that JCC "ended" T's career. I was providing evidence, and logical examples of how that is not accurate.
-As for the second part of your argument it's false, Choicey. JCC 'took the easy road", look ar his opposition, dude, c'mon.
-According to Wiki, he felt making the weight zapped him of his strength.
-Also, JCC was not making the money he could've by fighting club fighters, man.
09Brant 4 days ago
@09Brant Chavez gave and restored order to his division. He took all challenges. He ducked nobody. Everytime some chump (Norris,Leonard) or other coward called him out from another division or made comments that theyd like to fight him, Chavez simply always said,"Come get it". All the good Lightweight champions of the era,including Whitaker completely avoided the Jr.Welter division where Chavez was King after Taylor 1. So howd he play it safe when he fought them all,set records, in that class?
TheChoice264 4 days ago
@09Brant "according to wiki..."---09Slander.
Ohhhh....I get it. Taylor couldnt make the weight for the rematch at age 24 but he could at age....28? Oh, I see. Silly me!! What was I thinking? Because THAT makes perfect sense,right? It's so much easier to lose weight the older you get. LOL. Funny, I NEVER recalled Taylor EVER claiming he was having trouble making weight BEFORE the fight. NEVER heard him claim his intentions were to abandon Jr.Welter after his fight with Chavez BEFORE the fight
TheChoice264 4 days ago
@09Brant No, what I DO remember hearing him say is how he was gonna unify the division and be the greatest Jr.Welter in boxing history and best fightwer in the world and how they maybe they were gonna put a statue of him next to Rocky's at the Art Musuem. He actually said this shit.I remember Chavez at a fight press conference rolling his eyes at this and proclaiming,"Taylor can throw a million punches I dont care. I will rout them by my will alone.".
TheChoice264 4 days ago
@09Brant "T took alot away from JC as well".--09Slander. You fantasize. He did? How? Chavez didnt take anything even remotely close to a beating from Taylor. He got a pretty damn good workout while Taylor got a pretty damn good working over. The 2 tune-ups before his mandatory defense against the #1 challenger in the world is not an example that Taylor took something away from JC. LOL. Is that all you got? Pathetic. Whitaker,Randall?
TheChoice264 4 days ago
@09Brant Look 09Slander, let me tell you what got to JC. 13 yrs of being at the top. 80 fights and many,many wars. Fame on par with Elvis and Ali. Bottom line: for as much as you love to talk about his fights with Whitaker, DeLaHoya, and Randall, the fact of the matter, I'm sorry, is that he was old. Lets just keep it real. Chavez was no longer Chavez. He was old. It happens to all fighters. You cant deny it try as you will. I'm tired of dancing around it. He was old. Accept it. Deal with it.
TheChoice264 4 days ago
@09Brant Now this isnt written in stone but through my studies of fighters this tends to have substance and hold true. Now, Chavez was ALREADY a H.O.F and a boxing legend before he ever fought Taylor. Chavez couldve retired in 1989 and with his resume gone down as one of the greatest champs in history. He fought Taylor. Do you know he said in 1991 if he couldnt fight Taylor again he wanted to fight Camacho and retire? He'd had 70 FIGHTS and had been a champion for 7 yrs. fighting 5-6 times a yr.
TheChoice264 4 days ago
@09Brant My point? Chavez was contemplating retirement because he knew he was getting old and couldnt do the things he was doing,couldnt train the way he used to and his life was much more demanding than he ever couldve imagined. But, he fought on for the money and for the fans and the glory. Even when he could no longer recognize himself he fought on just like Taylor did. Why? "The sarissa's song is a sad song, he pipes it soft and low.I would ply a gentler trade,says he, but war is all I know"
TheChoice264 4 days ago
@09Brant 09Slander stop with all your ramblings about the whoopins he took as an old man and then try to say he wasnt an old man.It's lame,it's pathetic.It really eats at you that this fighter could never be had in his youth and prime,that he was considered invincible as he proved in this fight and as Roger Mayweather tried to warn Taylor.It really eats at you so you have to point at his Elvis vegas years.You're shameless. Go goad Ali fans for getting his old ass handed to him by Holmes y dont u
TheChoice264 4 days ago
@09Brant Oh and for once have balls and answer a direct question I'm STILL waiting. DO YOU or DONT YOU think/feel that Roberto Duran,whom many feel was the greatest Lightweight in boxing history, was overrated as a Lightweight where he went an incredible 62-1 and defended his title an equally incredible 12 times.?
TheChoice264 4 days ago
@TheChoice264 I don't know much about Roberto, except that he was a warrior, blue collar; puncher, like Julio. He got killed against Hearns, but Hagler and he fought a great fight in which Marvin pays him the greatest respect. Hagler and Duran do NOT pay Leonard respect, because Gay Leonard likes to run his way to a victory..which is what Taylor could have done but punched with a natural puncher. Mel was a natural talent but not a natural puncher. Oh, and he was old when he beat Barkly.
09Brant 3 days ago
@09Brant I know you dont know shit about boxing so let me help you by giving you a list of some tremendously talented, tough, and great fighters he fought as a Lightweight to help you decide if he was overrated or not. 1.)Ernesto Marcel 2.)Hiroshi Kobayashi 3.)Ken Buchanon 4.)Hector Thompson 5.)Esteban DeJesus 6.)Edwin Viruet 7.)Saoul Mamby. This is one hell of a list. Was he overrated?
TheChoice264 4 days ago
Mel won another title (did not grant a rematch), decisioned 2 defenses (one split), got koed by a jr middle, lost his title by ko (3rd defense), got koed again by Chavez. His record including this fight is 14 & 8. Denied a license in some places, stumbled along as best he could, until the sad ending we see here.
gprix 1 week ago
fuck larry merchant ! i cant stand dat old racist fart en serio !
TruSmokka13 1 week ago
@TruSmokka13 I hate Larry Merchant as well!
canibusnj 1 week ago
Taylor took the worst ass whooping of his life that night
eddieg671 1 week ago
@eddieg671 Yup, but he was back in the ring four months later fighting better competition than "champion" JCC whol fled the country to fight two club fighters.
Nope, Chavez didn't end Taylor's career. I think Taylor exposed Chavez on many levels one can argue.
09Brant 1 week ago
one of the biggest robberies
werdskantxpress 2 weeks ago
@werdskantxpress BIG HEADED FUCKER
SantaBadd 2 weeks ago
Comment removed
werdskantxpress 2 weeks ago