@ketsan obviously aikikai aikido emphesize on throwing and round circles they sometimes use principals in a different way but i have seen christian tissier who if i am not wrong do aikikai also do normal aikido meaning not emphesize .
don white also does aikikai i think again kokyoho techniques seem to be more emphesized .
i dont want to say they are more agressive but they definitely do some swaying or pushing to emphesize some points still i think they can just not do it when they want
@ketsan normal aikido lies somewhere between aikiai on the one far side and yoshinkan aikido on the other
i think if i am not wrong one was inspired by morihiro saito the other was linage inspired from shihoda gozo both of which were moriheis outstanding students.
@TheRogueMonk I wouldn't try to define Aikikai aikido, it's more a collection of styles than a single style. Which is why there's a bit of a movement within the Aikikai to standardise on what hombu i.e doshu is doing.
@ketsan morihei was a takeda student so aikido should not be too different from daito ruy aikijujutsu.. if you loose youre ma ai .. extend ki and stright back and you loose your kamae then you start loosing real aikido principals
i am not sure if i can say aikikai is loose or not but any style that sacrifice those elements which are cruicial to work in real budo or war or battle that style is further from aikido
@TheRogueMonk my opinion is that the better aikido is the one that uses less muscle and blends more with the attacker... logically, if you look at o' sensei's aikido it went from harder to softer and from good to better while doing this... it didnt go from soft to harder to harder to harder... so from this we can say that the better aikido is the softer, more gentle, more flowing, simpler, less steps, less contact aikido that o'sensei was displaying at the end of his life... this video is good.
@matthewexpert i think that it is like this for all martial arts the higher they com ein mastery the more soft and delicate they become because they know so much..
it is a misconception that a master should do violent actions just because he can but rael masters realize this that its not the strongest way.. it just seems impressive on television .. sure you could impress people by hurting them but where is the mastery in that?
@TheRogueMonk i'm agreeing with you... o'sensei progressed from hard to soft
this means he got better the softer his aikido became.
this means (logically) that softer aikido is better than hard aikido
its also well known that the internal (soft) martial arts win over the hard martial arts in competitions even when the internal martial artist is much older and weaker...
@matthewexpert we are all here to realize the role of being supporting in teh world not destructive..
its very simple but why we get to it so hardly .. but as humasn we are imperssed by both agression and peace but the fact is that is easier to get shsallow results by using agression and it takes longer using peace..
but in some ironic and strange way peace is easier and faster .. i dont know how it all turns this way ..if you are kind you may not get things right there but you feel lighter
@ketsan i have a site where i collect aikido techniques i choose only people who seem to have some good principals
one of the guys who have a great collection of videos himself and he is a master is stennud stefan.
he is swedish and writen some books i think and has a site , he has not made himself teh head of his aikido but aikido the head of his aikido.. search him on youtube he has effective approach.
@TheRogueMonk surely there are many people who can hurt someone they just need good genes and strong bones tructure and a mind that has no mercy on otehr peoples lives .. and yo u have yourself a killing machine.. but that is not aikido is it?
@TheRogueMonk let me just say that the person who boasts and brags about his power and ability to beat up other people contains nothing but luck and genetics..in my view peopel were not made to fight and if someone is way stronger then eomeone else its because of preposition..
contest in truth is not or maybe even never fair you will always find element of luck and predisposition.
In aikido we strive for things that have nothing to do with luck and we try to make people not need a predispostion
@TheRogueMonk in cultures otuside of religion and it has influced even religion even they have recognized the fact that goes ,like this and i make up this right now bu tthe meanign is the same "dont brag because what you have you have been given" meaning it cuold have had been to someone else.. also that you should be thankful because its a gift its not your achievement alone
again this is confusing to people and yes it is not easy to grasp .. but to have mercy on others requires some reflection
It's true that the atemi could be used to potentially end the confrontation at the beginning but Aikido is not traditionally about ending a confrontation via a strike. Rather than striking back at the energy coming at you with an attack of your own the emphasis is on blending with the energy coming at you and then redirecting it.
Nage uses an atemi here to bring uke so much out of ballance that nage can slip under uke's arm. That is far fetched. One could use that atemi to end it. Although it's aiki, it's not realistic.
@superesonator Very true, but that would just be a bad form of karate. My point is that this use of the aiki principle is in this case far fetched. Using aiki for the sake of aiki. It's unrealistic. The nice thing about the aiki principle is that it costs little energy. But like this it prolonges the fighting. If you are able to place an atemi, just do it. Why bother with very difficault techniques then?
ya and in ten years you will almost be "bad ass" enough to kick ass. it's great and has a lot of practical applications, but the learning curve is brutal
I don't think it takes that long. As little as two years should do it if you know how to use kata and can pull the practical applications out. It only takes ten years if you don't start examining the kata until you've perfected it.
Aikido and basically all other forms of martial art does NOT have a purpose of causing any harm to another person, unless it is completely unavoidable then we apply the techniques to defend our selves or other helpless people in danger. The state of mind you develop is one of peace. not wanting to harm anyone. the state of mind you have right now is not one of peace....i would simply be irresponsible to recommend any martial art to you. since you are allready aproaching the art completely wrong.
Practise Martial arts to learn how to DEFEND youself, and build moral character. Not for anything else. - if your moral reasons for learning martial arts is not friendly. then martial arts is probably not for you.
@bbroegger Like a certain Greek 7th dan sensei said once in a small dojo, in a small Greek village: "Tae Kwon Do teaches you how to break/destroy things with your hands and feet. It teaches you how to kill... efficiently.
I happen to agree with him.
Moreover, in my opinion all martial arts that contain offensive techniques teach you how to harm people. All else is but a point of view --one that may be shared by instructors, people and the general population, but it's just that.
Aikido is so cool, I want to learn it, but no one would teach me because I don't wish to learn anything about becoming one with your surroundings, and all that mind and body crap. I tell my instructs right out; "I want to beat up a room full of guys and possible take over the world with my skills"...I'm usually turned away at that point. Does anyone know of a martial art that skips the cosmic crap and gets right down to the meat and potatos of fighting? This isn't a joke, I really want to know.
"i want to be jason bourne and be able to react to any physical attack by any number of people, but i'm too add to sit down and learn the proper fundamentals."
you might try muy thai, but you're not going to find a martial art with the power generation of aikido that will let you skip the "cosmic crap"
Thing is mate, there really isn't that much 'cosmic crap'. To be able to beat up a room full of people, you need discipline, i.e. self-control. Without self-control, you make mistakes. If you make too many mistakes, you're the one that's gonna end up getting your ass kicked.
Discipline is all about humility and patience. It's very straightforward. You'll find that the "mind and body crap" comes very naturally once you look it from this angle.
I know what you mean about cosmic crap, and I hate that stuff too. I partly agree with Cranky: that it's about patience, but i think humility is a word that puts people off. For me the mental exercises that are about concentration, balance and focus. They help build awareness of your 'centre' (which is a real physical thing as opposed to a chakra or soul).
As Cranky says, if you want to beat up a room full of people, you definately want to give Aikido a go. It's all about the multiple attack.
His angle of entry is way off he needs to entering in at about 90 degrees to uke so that uke's arm is stretched. Then he needs to tenkan under uke's wrist so that he's in position to cut the neck with the tegatana. That locks the shoulder up and creates the body positioning which brings uke down.
You can do it as shown for ai hamni though because you have a free hand to cut the elbow and bring uke down.
Ah, and I was thinking it's OSensei's grandchild we're looking at. But as you absolutely correctly observed this nage doesn't really know how to properly apply Kaiten Nage. So my conclusion is, that this must be an impostor :D
what is the name of the video/dvd? i'd like to buy it...
matthewexpert 1 year ago
good luck.
ph33ric 1 year ago
can soeone answer me
Doshu moriteru ueshiba AIKIKAI?
and was his father aikikai?
what was morihei aikido?
TheRogueMonk 1 year ago
@TheRogueMonk Yup. What ever the Ueshiba family does is Aikikai.
ketsan 1 year ago
@ketsan i thought by watching that morihei and his son did not do a specific style but moriteru seems to do a clear aikikai..
i am not fond of "styles" one should try to do normal aikido or neutral aikido in my opinion doing a style can disrupt the neutrality of the art.
TheRogueMonk 1 year ago
@TheRogueMonk Well supposedly what Moriteru is doing is neutral Aikido. Supposedly.
ketsan 1 year ago
@ketsan obviously aikikai aikido emphesize on throwing and round circles they sometimes use principals in a different way but i have seen christian tissier who if i am not wrong do aikikai also do normal aikido meaning not emphesize .
don white also does aikikai i think again kokyoho techniques seem to be more emphesized .
i dont want to say they are more agressive but they definitely do some swaying or pushing to emphesize some points still i think they can just not do it when they want
TheRogueMonk 1 year ago
@ketsan normal aikido lies somewhere between aikiai on the one far side and yoshinkan aikido on the other
i think if i am not wrong one was inspired by morihiro saito the other was linage inspired from shihoda gozo both of which were moriheis outstanding students.
TheRogueMonk 1 year ago
@TheRogueMonk I wouldn't try to define Aikikai aikido, it's more a collection of styles than a single style. Which is why there's a bit of a movement within the Aikikai to standardise on what hombu i.e doshu is doing.
ketsan 1 year ago
@ketsan morihei was a takeda student so aikido should not be too different from daito ruy aikijujutsu.. if you loose youre ma ai .. extend ki and stright back and you loose your kamae then you start loosing real aikido principals
i am not sure if i can say aikikai is loose or not but any style that sacrifice those elements which are cruicial to work in real budo or war or battle that style is further from aikido
TheRogueMonk 1 year ago
@TheRogueMonk that is what i concern myself about so as long as the style does that it should be okay to pass as aikido .
aikido is principal it is not necessarily a form .
TheRogueMonk 1 year ago
@TheRogueMonk my opinion is that the better aikido is the one that uses less muscle and blends more with the attacker... logically, if you look at o' sensei's aikido it went from harder to softer and from good to better while doing this... it didnt go from soft to harder to harder to harder... so from this we can say that the better aikido is the softer, more gentle, more flowing, simpler, less steps, less contact aikido that o'sensei was displaying at the end of his life... this video is good.
matthewexpert 1 year ago
@matthewexpert i think that it is like this for all martial arts the higher they com ein mastery the more soft and delicate they become because they know so much..
it is a misconception that a master should do violent actions just because he can but rael masters realize this that its not the strongest way.. it just seems impressive on television .. sure you could impress people by hurting them but where is the mastery in that?
TheRogueMonk 1 year ago
@TheRogueMonk i'm agreeing with you... o'sensei progressed from hard to soft
this means he got better the softer his aikido became.
this means (logically) that softer aikido is better than hard aikido
its also well known that the internal (soft) martial arts win over the hard martial arts in competitions even when the internal martial artist is much older and weaker...
matthewexpert 1 year ago
@matthewexpert we are all here to realize the role of being supporting in teh world not destructive..
its very simple but why we get to it so hardly .. but as humasn we are imperssed by both agression and peace but the fact is that is easier to get shsallow results by using agression and it takes longer using peace..
but in some ironic and strange way peace is easier and faster .. i dont know how it all turns this way ..if you are kind you may not get things right there but you feel lighter
TheRogueMonk 1 year ago
@TheRogueMonk I don't disagree.
ketsan 1 year ago
@ketsan i have a site where i collect aikido techniques i choose only people who seem to have some good principals
one of the guys who have a great collection of videos himself and he is a master is stennud stefan.
he is swedish and writen some books i think and has a site , he has not made himself teh head of his aikido but aikido the head of his aikido.. search him on youtube he has effective approach.
TheRogueMonk 1 year ago
@TheRogueMonk surely there are many people who can hurt someone they just need good genes and strong bones tructure and a mind that has no mercy on otehr peoples lives .. and yo u have yourself a killing machine.. but that is not aikido is it?
TheRogueMonk 1 year ago
@TheRogueMonk let me just say that the person who boasts and brags about his power and ability to beat up other people contains nothing but luck and genetics..in my view peopel were not made to fight and if someone is way stronger then eomeone else its because of preposition..
contest in truth is not or maybe even never fair you will always find element of luck and predisposition.
In aikido we strive for things that have nothing to do with luck and we try to make people not need a predispostion
TheRogueMonk 1 year ago
@TheRogueMonk in cultures otuside of religion and it has influced even religion even they have recognized the fact that goes ,like this and i make up this right now bu tthe meanign is the same "dont brag because what you have you have been given" meaning it cuold have had been to someone else.. also that you should be thankful because its a gift its not your achievement alone
again this is confusing to people and yes it is not easy to grasp .. but to have mercy on others requires some reflection
TheRogueMonk 1 year ago
It's true that the atemi could be used to potentially end the confrontation at the beginning but Aikido is not traditionally about ending a confrontation via a strike. Rather than striking back at the energy coming at you with an attack of your own the emphasis is on blending with the energy coming at you and then redirecting it.
vorheesemycheese2 1 year ago
Nage uses an atemi here to bring uke so much out of ballance that nage can slip under uke's arm. That is far fetched. One could use that atemi to end it. Although it's aiki, it's not realistic.
MaxSluiman 2 years ago
yeah but if he flinches the atemi may not work, you might as well just do the movement as well to evade any further attacks by uke.
maxgunn555 1 year ago
@maxgunn555 If he flinches? That would be like learning how to fly, just in case a sprained ankle might prevent one from walking.
MaxSluiman 1 year ago
@MaxSluiman
This is demonstration, and practice speed.
If this were an actual situation, you would never know what hit you.
superesonator 1 year ago
@superesonator Very true, but that would just be a bad form of karate. My point is that this use of the aiki principle is in this case far fetched. Using aiki for the sake of aiki. It's unrealistic. The nice thing about the aiki principle is that it costs little energy. But like this it prolonges the fighting. If you are able to place an atemi, just do it. Why bother with very difficault techniques then?
MaxSluiman 1 year ago
@MaxSluiman
True, exactly my point also. If it were a real fight you wouldn't do the things you do in a demonstration. But this is just a demonstration.
superesonator 1 year ago
ya and in ten years you will almost be "bad ass" enough to kick ass. it's great and has a lot of practical applications, but the learning curve is brutal
gyrmat0868 2 years ago
I don't think it takes that long. As little as two years should do it if you know how to use kata and can pull the practical applications out. It only takes ten years if you don't start examining the kata until you've perfected it.
ketsan 2 years ago
Aikido and basically all other forms of martial art does NOT have a purpose of causing any harm to another person, unless it is completely unavoidable then we apply the techniques to defend our selves or other helpless people in danger. The state of mind you develop is one of peace. not wanting to harm anyone. the state of mind you have right now is not one of peace....i would simply be irresponsible to recommend any martial art to you. since you are allready aproaching the art completely wrong.
bbroegger 2 years ago
Practise Martial arts to learn how to DEFEND youself, and build moral character. Not for anything else. - if your moral reasons for learning martial arts is not friendly. then martial arts is probably not for you.
bbroegger 2 years ago
@bbroegger Like a certain Greek 7th dan sensei said once in a small dojo, in a small Greek village: "Tae Kwon Do teaches you how to break/destroy things with your hands and feet. It teaches you how to kill... efficiently.
I happen to agree with him.
Moreover, in my opinion all martial arts that contain offensive techniques teach you how to harm people. All else is but a point of view --one that may be shared by instructors, people and the general population, but it's just that.
NaxNax96 2 years ago
Aikido is so cool, I want to learn it, but no one would teach me because I don't wish to learn anything about becoming one with your surroundings, and all that mind and body crap. I tell my instructs right out; "I want to beat up a room full of guys and possible take over the world with my skills"...I'm usually turned away at that point. Does anyone know of a martial art that skips the cosmic crap and gets right down to the meat and potatos of fighting? This isn't a joke, I really want to know.
Badger9001 2 years ago
"i want to be jason bourne and be able to react to any physical attack by any number of people, but i'm too add to sit down and learn the proper fundamentals."
you might try muy thai, but you're not going to find a martial art with the power generation of aikido that will let you skip the "cosmic crap"
ergopropterhoc 2 years ago
Thing is mate, there really isn't that much 'cosmic crap'. To be able to beat up a room full of people, you need discipline, i.e. self-control. Without self-control, you make mistakes. If you make too many mistakes, you're the one that's gonna end up getting your ass kicked.
Discipline is all about humility and patience. It's very straightforward. You'll find that the "mind and body crap" comes very naturally once you look it from this angle.
crankymcstab 2 years ago
yeah its called knitting
acquiesce100 2 years ago
Knitting is a martial art? And it allows you to beat people up? I don't even want to know what the sweaters look like where you come from.
Badger9001 2 years ago
mate, Im just kidding you. I feel the same as you do
acquiesce100 2 years ago
I know. It's hard to depict "sarcasm" in written words.
Badger9001 2 years ago
I know what you mean about cosmic crap, and I hate that stuff too. I partly agree with Cranky: that it's about patience, but i think humility is a word that puts people off. For me the mental exercises that are about concentration, balance and focus. They help build awareness of your 'centre' (which is a real physical thing as opposed to a chakra or soul).
As Cranky says, if you want to beat up a room full of people, you definately want to give Aikido a go. It's all about the multiple attack.
MrTasteslikechicken 2 years ago
His angle of entry is way off he needs to entering in at about 90 degrees to uke so that uke's arm is stretched. Then he needs to tenkan under uke's wrist so that he's in position to cut the neck with the tegatana. That locks the shoulder up and creates the body positioning which brings uke down.
You can do it as shown for ai hamni though because you have a free hand to cut the elbow and bring uke down.
ketsan 2 years ago
Ah, and I was thinking it's OSensei's grandchild we're looking at. But as you absolutely correctly observed this nage doesn't really know how to properly apply Kaiten Nage. So my conclusion is, that this must be an impostor :D
Arboreth 2 years ago 2
tags: gyakuhanmi katatedori Uchi kaiten nage
bryand79 2 years ago
jes ^^ looks like ^^
linglinggggg 3 years ago
hey so neji does aikido.
sirmoalot 4 years ago