If we did a good act merely from love of God and a belief that it is pleasing to Him, whence arises the morality of the Atheist? ...Their virtue, then, must have had some other foundation than the love of God.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Thomas Law, June 13, 1814
Of course Xtians would tell TJ they absorb it from being aground Xtians
kalin666, Great video, you seem so human, alive, and verbal. Truth is always hard for me to know, but as you say it is still true even if noone knows it.. Happy to see you back on YouTUBE at what I think you do best, the God issue. Moving my video response here so may pick up a few views. HarOLD
What about believing in an after life entails not being 'as' bothered by issues of social justice here on earth? I'm not following your reasoning. Additionally what theology can you point to that supports this 'concern/fear' of yours regarding people of faith somehow being less concerned about the wrong person being sentenced to death? If none then on what grounds are you basing this?
@TogetherForPeace I'm basing this on my own personal experience, notice that I qualified my statements with "might and may". Don't forget I used to be a practicing, believing, conservative Jew who did believe in an afterlife. What I described in the video was my own opinion justified by my religious belief. And since I have lost my religion, it's one of the most drastic changes in position I have ever had.
Great point about the justice system. I've heard of stories where people have spent years in jail for crimes they didn't commit all because of lack of dna testing many years ago with improved dna testing at least that helps rule out people who are innocent but it sure doesn't make up for all those years that those innocent people spent in prison. I never believed in the death penalty anyway It puts criminals out of their misery and I'd prefer seeing them rot in jail thinking about what they did
@M31orNGC224 still P3, but after seeing the civilian Dr and getting diagnosed as "perfectly healthy" my recruiters is bugging MEPS. Waiting on MEPS is . . . . . frustrating.
@kalin666 Uh huh what ever you say tiger, but dont try to make out you find and old comb and not get misty eyed for the good old days, when direct overhead lighting posed no glare problems and......wait a minute.
Holy crap, your giant canvas of a forehead made me totally overlook taking the piss out of your glasses. You haven't got a receding hairline, its just packed its bags one morning and fucked off all together.
My god you're hard work, whats a troll got to do to get blocked these days.
@kalin666 I think that might also be a misconception or projection on the part of some. I personally am happy pretty much all of the time. I have all the things some would consider are important for good, happy and stable life. Just enjoy winding people up, always have always will. Trolls just like Atheists are from all walks of life. It's a free country though, you can choose to believe what ever makes you sleep better at night, but the hypocrisy would be palpable from your espoused viewpoints.
@kalin666 If you let on you ruin it ya know. Just stick to the trolls are miserable thing and make out like you didn't read any of the replys. That will get me good (^.o)
I am so sick of atheists trying to convince theists that they are confused. Theists are irrational, by definition.. When are we atheists gonna start talking to each other about what we think is important and what should be focused on. I am sure that the theists don't have this problem. They are organized and pushing the politicos in the direction they want.
@Griexxt Theists are pushing their agenda in politics. I think we should counter that with concepts like separation of church and state, science and reason, etc.
@upshall Come around my place, we can vent together.....maybe under a nice hot shower.... Wait what does vent mean? I think i might be confused (o.O) (o.o (O.o) (O.O)
@TheOJDrinker if it's incorrect then it's not "truth". By using "truth" to describe what someone thinks to be true, but actually isn't, then you've just destroyed the word "TRUE". They are mistaken and what they believe is False.
If there were no humans to know about the age of the universe, the universe's age would not be measured in Earth years. So perhaps that particular truth requires human calendars.
Emotions ARE deep! They're the foundation of how our species operates. Human evolutionary theory 101. That's 'true' just as it is true that birds have wings. Feelings that drive folk to exploit and/or murder each other should be monitored and transmuted into those that drive us to sustainably co-exist IMHO. In that sense, 'squishiness' matters. As far as we're concerned, it's really the whole point. It's the main thing to monitor and learn to sustainably express/harness/control!
It HAS been a while since you've made a video....SHAME ON YOU! (With the passing of Easter recently, I was reminded of your "Twinkies" video! Awesome)
*
Speaking of awesome, spectacular answers and dead on the money! That said...DAMN YOU for stealing my answers! I was going to do a response to Jack tonight and you damn near gave the EXACT same response that I was going to give...I even had planned a "favorite ice cream flavor" example for his "is it true" question. I hope you are happy! ; )
@KingHeathen see, this is why I haven't been posting, someone always does what I wanted to do first! Then I'm like "is there anything I can add? Um nope, they already did it better, shit, I guess I better keep my mouth shut."
It took Jack to get you to make a video? (I should talk: I haven't made a video in forever. I should fuck with everyone and make a Doctor Who fan video.)
Good answers, but it won't move Jack. He's set in his ways.
Jack, like most theists, believes in capital T Truth, and that drives his entire world view.
@ceresWar That doesn't make any sense. I would say it like this. It is objectively true that person A is afraid of spiders and also objectively true that person B is not afraid of spiders. So yes, truth is absolute. People's feelings and preferences aren't "truth" in any meaningful sense.
the world does not follow logic, logic and mathematics is mans way of approximating the world. there is a case to be made for religion and a case to be made for atheism. whether or not someone accepts or rejects religion is a result of their environment. for the atheist, god does not exist and for the religious person god does exist.
We're just approaching this concept of "truth" from different angles. What's true for me can be false for you, and vice versa, from that standpoint "the truth" isn't absolute. However, the world does follow logic, and math isn't a way to approximate the world, it is, in itself, absolute. Let us skip the formalities, is there a god, true or false? If it's true it can't be false, if it's false it can't be true. We might answer differently, but that's irrelevant, there can be only one answer.
@ceresWar Either a god exists or a god doesn't exist. What anyone believes makes no difference to whether the existence is true. Yes, a believer thinks that it's true that a god exists and a non-believer doesn't. None of that makes any difference to what's *actually* true.
@ceresWar the world DOES follow logic, reality is not influenced by our whims and fancies. My believing that smurfs live in my backyard does not make it so.
@ceresWar as @Deathinmusic said, you're introducing two different variables to one question, making two different statements, not one. So one is true, one is false, and that's perfectly fine. In a strict mathematical enviroment nothing can be true and false at the same time, it is absolute, regardless of our feelings towards spiders being scary or not.
Does a mermaid exist? Some say yes, some say no. Therefor truth is not absolute. Yes it is depending on what context. Something is either true, or not true, something exist or it doesnt exist. As far as we can KNOW, I think is not possible, that is why I personally don't accept absolutes, I reject absolutes as far as WE can know it. But I do believe in absolutes, I just think I can't possibly know the truth as an absolute.
You misunderstood me. I say absolutes are unachievable by us humans. But there are absolutes obviously, like whether a deity exist or not. Do you understand now?
@jay666KJ No iI think I get what you are saying. It is impossible to know anything as absolutely true or false, even though there IS an absolute answer to everything.
@ceresWar it's true that you are scared of spiders, it's true that i am not especially scared of spiders. These truths are objectively true unless one of us is lying. It's not true for only one of us. Something is either true or it isn't and that is why reality is concrete.
@kalin666 There are also grades of context applied to truth. This is where all the false dichotomies lie. For example. I'm not scared of spiders, except when I am. I've handled tarantulas with trepidation and caution, but I wasn't afraid. However I have woken up with a spider sat on my eyelid, trying to spin a web and that freaked the shit out of me.
You may claim to like strawberry icecream, but it's possible for me to put the best chocolate icecream and the worst strawberry infront of you...
I have just woken up after about 2 hours of sleep in 42 hours, so the preceding comments may not be as insiteful or as pertinent as I believe them to be. Just giving you fair warning.
You are amazingly smart, I like how you combat anti-atheist questions, it's unlike all others. It's very interesting and you make very good points :D
Y2CJW 7 months ago
If we did a good act merely from love of God and a belief that it is pleasing to Him, whence arises the morality of the Atheist? ...Their virtue, then, must have had some other foundation than the love of God.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Thomas Law, June 13, 1814
Of course Xtians would tell TJ they absorb it from being aground Xtians
westkan 1 year ago
HK-47 from KotOR uses the word you're looking for fondly, which is "meatbags." Even says squishy some times.
mikeyman211 1 year ago
Keeping it real as always, good to see a new vid from you: five st........ ... thumbs up.
Karozy 1 year ago
kalin666, Great video, you seem so human, alive, and verbal. Truth is always hard for me to know, but as you say it is still true even if noone knows it.. Happy to see you back on YouTUBE at what I think you do best, the God issue. Moving my video response here so may pick up a few views. HarOLD
hquillin 1 year ago
@hquillin haha, not interested in Avatar: The Last Airbender are we? :)
kalin666 1 year ago
thanks for your response always good to hear from ya :)
TogetherForPeace 1 year ago
@TogetherForPeace my pleasure
kalin666 1 year ago
What about believing in an after life entails not being 'as' bothered by issues of social justice here on earth? I'm not following your reasoning. Additionally what theology can you point to that supports this 'concern/fear' of yours regarding people of faith somehow being less concerned about the wrong person being sentenced to death? If none then on what grounds are you basing this?
TogetherForPeace 1 year ago
@TogetherForPeace I'm basing this on my own personal experience, notice that I qualified my statements with "might and may". Don't forget I used to be a practicing, believing, conservative Jew who did believe in an afterlife. What I described in the video was my own opinion justified by my religious belief. And since I have lost my religion, it's one of the most drastic changes in position I have ever had.
kalin666 1 year ago
Great point about the justice system. I've heard of stories where people have spent years in jail for crimes they didn't commit all because of lack of dna testing many years ago with improved dna testing at least that helps rule out people who are innocent but it sure doesn't make up for all those years that those innocent people spent in prison. I never believed in the death penalty anyway It puts criminals out of their misery and I'd prefer seeing them rot in jail thinking about what they did
HaleyMary 1 year ago
are you in the navy yet?
M31orNGC224 1 year ago
@M31orNGC224 still P3, but after seeing the civilian Dr and getting diagnosed as "perfectly healthy" my recruiters is bugging MEPS. Waiting on MEPS is . . . . . frustrating.
kalin666 1 year ago
Very well stated my friend. thumbs up & faved
KiptaviusFuzz 1 year ago
jacks questions were clearly loaded, and were meant to maneuver/guide people down a curtain path based on his presuppositions.
"Squishy meat creatures" Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!! ★★★★★
Katalyzt
Katalyzt 1 year ago
good to see you back kalin ... keep posting please :)
toprankingsound 1 year ago
Wow that top paddock is really baron huh. Dont seem anything you planted there will grow ya poor bald barsted.
myjizzureye 1 year ago
@myjizzureye Wow.. the bleeding obvious really ricochets around the inside of your head like a rock in a tin can doesn't it ya poor empty bastard.
neuronstorm 1 year ago
@neuronstorm Yeah I know but its like a woman with a mustache, you cant help but just point and go...HOLY SHIT that woman has a MUSTACHE.
Blocked in 5....4...3...2...
myjizzureye 1 year ago
@myjizzureye why would I block someone who makes themselves look ridiculous? Letting you keep ranting is punishment enough.
kalin666 1 year ago
@kalin666 Uh huh what ever you say tiger, but dont try to make out you find and old comb and not get misty eyed for the good old days, when direct overhead lighting posed no glare problems and......wait a minute.
Holy crap, your giant canvas of a forehead made me totally overlook taking the piss out of your glasses. You haven't got a receding hairline, its just packed its bags one morning and fucked off all together.
My god you're hard work, whats a troll got to do to get blocked these days.
myjizzureye 1 year ago
@myjizzureye I don't block trolls, their existence serves as a lesson to the rest of us and they are miserable enough on their own.
kalin666 1 year ago
@kalin666 I think that might also be a misconception or projection on the part of some. I personally am happy pretty much all of the time. I have all the things some would consider are important for good, happy and stable life. Just enjoy winding people up, always have always will. Trolls just like Atheists are from all walks of life. It's a free country though, you can choose to believe what ever makes you sleep better at night, but the hypocrisy would be palpable from your espoused viewpoints.
myjizzureye 1 year ago
@myjizzureye and trolls can't tell when they're being trolled, apparently
kalin666 1 year ago
@kalin666 If you let on you ruin it ya know. Just stick to the trolls are miserable thing and make out like you didn't read any of the replys. That will get me good (^.o)
myjizzureye 1 year ago
I am so sick of atheists trying to convince theists that they are confused. Theists are irrational, by definition.. When are we atheists gonna start talking to each other about what we think is important and what should be focused on. I am sure that the theists don't have this problem. They are organized and pushing the politicos in the direction they want.
Sorry I guess I just needed to vent.
upshall 1 year ago
@upshall Do we really have a common political agenda, you think?
As far as I can see, we atheists as a whole have one thing in common: atheism. How do you make politics of that?
Griexxt 1 year ago
@Griexxt Theists are pushing their agenda in politics. I think we should counter that with concepts like separation of church and state, science and reason, etc.
upshall 1 year ago
@upshall Come around my place, we can vent together.....maybe under a nice hot shower.... Wait what does vent mean? I think i might be confused (o.O) (o.o (O.o) (O.O)
myjizzureye 1 year ago
@myjizzureye lol
upshall 1 year ago
Sometimes people have a problem with 'truth'. This is the way I see it:
Truth - What you believe to be true; something you believe to be accurate; that which is not a lie.
Fact - The way things actually exist regardless of anyone's perceptions.
Liking a certain kind of ice cream is a fact. (it's a fact that you have a positive opinion of it.)
If someone thinks you prefer vanilla and tells someone that, it's the truth (as far as they perceive it) but it's not factual, it's incorrect.
TheOJDrinker 1 year ago
@TheOJDrinker "Truth - What you believe to be true; something you believe to be accurate; that which is not a lie."
I believe myself to be the worlds greatest lover. Doesn't make it true. ;-)
Griexxt 1 year ago
@TheOJDrinker if it's incorrect then it's not "truth". By using "truth" to describe what someone thinks to be true, but actually isn't, then you've just destroyed the word "TRUE". They are mistaken and what they believe is False.
kalin666 1 year ago
If there were no humans to know about the age of the universe, the universe's age would not be measured in Earth years. So perhaps that particular truth requires human calendars.
EyeMonniker 1 year ago
@EyeMonniker it's a relative measurement, a conversion into a different unit would describe the same thing with a different label.
kalin666 1 year ago
Emotions ARE deep! They're the foundation of how our species operates. Human evolutionary theory 101. That's 'true' just as it is true that birds have wings. Feelings that drive folk to exploit and/or murder each other should be monitored and transmuted into those that drive us to sustainably co-exist IMHO. In that sense, 'squishiness' matters. As far as we're concerned, it's really the whole point. It's the main thing to monitor and learn to sustainably express/harness/control!
TrueHealth27 1 year ago
It HAS been a while since you've made a video....SHAME ON YOU! (With the passing of Easter recently, I was reminded of your "Twinkies" video! Awesome)
*
Speaking of awesome, spectacular answers and dead on the money! That said...DAMN YOU for stealing my answers! I was going to do a response to Jack tonight and you damn near gave the EXACT same response that I was going to give...I even had planned a "favorite ice cream flavor" example for his "is it true" question. I hope you are happy! ; )
KingHeathen 1 year ago
@KingHeathen see, this is why I haven't been posting, someone always does what I wanted to do first! Then I'm like "is there anything I can add? Um nope, they already did it better, shit, I guess I better keep my mouth shut."
kalin666 1 year ago
We are squishy meat creatures. Haha.
EntinludeX 1 year ago
It took Jack to get you to make a video? (I should talk: I haven't made a video in forever. I should fuck with everyone and make a Doctor Who fan video.)
Good answers, but it won't move Jack. He's set in his ways.
Jack, like most theists, believes in capital T Truth, and that drives his entire world view.
CousinoMacul 1 year ago
(13.72 billion years -- get it right. ;) )
Squishy ... Michael Shermer used the word "woo woo" when addressing Deepak Chopra.
websnarf 1 year ago
oh my gawd its yew
LDNLeon 1 year ago
Comment removed
cain825 1 year ago
Completely agreed on death penalty, and in fact numerous innocent people have already been murdered by the system through death penalty.
Deathinmusic 1 year ago
@kalin666
good video response
bubbamickmac 1 year ago
for someone who is afraid of of spiders, spiders are scary. for others, spiders are not scary. therefore truth is not absolute.
ceresWar 1 year ago
@ceresWar That doesn't make any sense. I would say it like this. It is objectively true that person A is afraid of spiders and also objectively true that person B is not afraid of spiders. So yes, truth is absolute. People's feelings and preferences aren't "truth" in any meaningful sense.
Deathinmusic 1 year ago
the world does not follow logic, logic and mathematics is mans way of approximating the world. there is a case to be made for religion and a case to be made for atheism. whether or not someone accepts or rejects religion is a result of their environment. for the atheist, god does not exist and for the religious person god does exist.
ceresWar 1 year ago
We're just approaching this concept of "truth" from different angles. What's true for me can be false for you, and vice versa, from that standpoint "the truth" isn't absolute. However, the world does follow logic, and math isn't a way to approximate the world, it is, in itself, absolute. Let us skip the formalities, is there a god, true or false? If it's true it can't be false, if it's false it can't be true. We might answer differently, but that's irrelevant, there can be only one answer.
NekaiiOnera 1 year ago
@ceresWar Either a god exists or a god doesn't exist. What anyone believes makes no difference to whether the existence is true. Yes, a believer thinks that it's true that a god exists and a non-believer doesn't. None of that makes any difference to what's *actually* true.
Deathinmusic 1 year ago
@ceresWar the world DOES follow logic, reality is not influenced by our whims and fancies. My believing that smurfs live in my backyard does not make it so.
kalin666 1 year ago
@ceresWar as @Deathinmusic said, you're introducing two different variables to one question, making two different statements, not one. So one is true, one is false, and that's perfectly fine. In a strict mathematical enviroment nothing can be true and false at the same time, it is absolute, regardless of our feelings towards spiders being scary or not.
NekaiiOnera 1 year ago
@ceresWar
Does a mermaid exist? Some say yes, some say no. Therefor truth is not absolute. Yes it is depending on what context. Something is either true, or not true, something exist or it doesnt exist. As far as we can KNOW, I think is not possible, that is why I personally don't accept absolutes, I reject absolutes as far as WE can know it. But I do believe in absolutes, I just think I can't possibly know the truth as an absolute.
jay666KJ 1 year ago
@jay666KJ wow, that makes no sense
kalin666 1 year ago
@jay666KJ
You misunderstood me. I say absolutes are unachievable by us humans. But there are absolutes obviously, like whether a deity exist or not. Do you understand now?
jay666KJ 1 year ago
@jay666KJ No iI think I get what you are saying. It is impossible to know anything as absolutely true or false, even though there IS an absolute answer to everything.
KiptaviusFuzz 1 year ago
@KiptaviusFuzz
Exactly, but I was responding to Kalin in response to my response to cereswar.
But as far as ice cream, and what flavor is best, etc, there is no absolutes, its all just opinion.
jay666KJ 1 year ago
@ceresWar it's true that you are scared of spiders, it's true that i am not especially scared of spiders. These truths are objectively true unless one of us is lying. It's not true for only one of us. Something is either true or it isn't and that is why reality is concrete.
kalin666 1 year ago
@kalin666 There are also grades of context applied to truth. This is where all the false dichotomies lie. For example. I'm not scared of spiders, except when I am. I've handled tarantulas with trepidation and caution, but I wasn't afraid. However I have woken up with a spider sat on my eyelid, trying to spin a web and that freaked the shit out of me.
You may claim to like strawberry icecream, but it's possible for me to put the best chocolate icecream and the worst strawberry infront of you...
AnonEyeMouse 1 year ago
and I'm fairly sure you'd pick the chocolate. What has this got to do with anything?
Glad you asked.
You say you are speaking in different languages, I don't think so. I think you are speaking in differing contexts or perceptual frames.
After all, I'm sure you and Jack share far more 'values' than Jack and a Nigerian Christian (where they kill children as witches).
What Jack 'values' about hislife may well be identical to what we value as Atheists as part of ours. It's the source we debate.
AnonEyeMouse 1 year ago
@AnonEyeMouse
I have just woken up after about 2 hours of sleep in 42 hours, so the preceding comments may not be as insiteful or as pertinent as I believe them to be. Just giving you fair warning.
AnonEyeMouse 1 year ago