The creator of the universe is the source of truth. It is found in the laws of nature, mathematics, etc. The Bible is the only truth for spiritual truth.
I believe there is no creator of the universe. Truth is a word. All words were invented by mankind. The word truth did not always exist, so nothing can be an absolute truth.
Man invented mathematics as well.
There are no such things as "spiritual truths". Truth comes in 2 forms, empirical truth and tautologous truth. All statements that are spiritual are either beliefs or false. Not 1 of them is proven true.
No reliable history verifies it. That is what makes it so unlikely that Jesus existed as a man anymore than Cupid existed.
The Romans were terrific record keepers, and Pilate existed as a man if we are to believe historical records... and he never tried a man names Jesus, never even left Rome.
The first "historical" record of Jesus came about 50 years after his alleged death, and that was from a discreditted historian.
"Wow! It's you against all the historians in the world1"
Hardly. Many historians have doubted Jesus ever existed.
Is that what they teach you in church? lol. Try reading some historians!
The first account of Jesus outside of scripture was 50 years after his death. That is like first hearing of Hitler in 1995, or Michael Jackson in 2059.
And it is unecessary since the god of the bible is proven to not exist. Whether a man named Jesus ever existed is irrelevent.
Actually, Thallus, (Roman historian) wrote about the darkness during the crucifixion of Jesus in 52 A.D. (19 years after the crucifixion) Cornelius Tacitus (Romand- 54-68 A.D.) wrote that the followers of Christus were called Christians...and Jesus was crucified during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of Pilate. (35 years after Jesus was killed). Josephus (Greatest Jewish historian of the time) said Jesus was a great wise, teacher... and the Jewish messiah. (70 A.D)
The Bible letter of Luke (the story of Jesus) was written to Theophilus, a Roman official. Theophilus had access to the official records and would have verified Luke's account. He found no objection to Luke's letter. In fact, Luke's second book to Theophilus (Acts) implies Theophilus was a believer. We learn from secular history that Jesus lived, died on a Roman cross, was raised from the dead and appeared to many witnesses. The rest of the story is in the historical New Testament!
Humans were not primates before primates existed or before humans existed, thus "humans are primates" is not an absolute truth. There is no logical possibility of any truth being absolute. If you used a hint of logic in what you say you would realize why as well.
Absolute truth is what is always true, forever and ever amen true..... no such possibility since all truths must be proven true and are not true until they are proven true.
You're trying to discuss a matter that you have no idea about.
Humans are primates was not true before either existed, or before logic existed, or before truth existed, or before language existed.... therefore it is not an absolute truth.
Before the earth existed "humans are primates" was not true... or even meaningful. POOF goes your argument.
Absolute truth is a dangerous bit of nonsense since it is what every suicide bomber believes in or they couldn't kill themselves.
Absolute truth is retarded, and violates the basics of formal logic itself. It is idiotic and simply has to go.... it is only suggested by people utterly ignorant of logic itself.
Evolution by the way is a complete strawman argument that fundamentalist religious types have you fooled into thinking you must maintain.
More theists than atheists believe in evolution.
An atheist can believe, and many deists do, that god created the universe and now god doesn't exist.
Evolution has nothing to do with atheism in anyway shape or form. Adhering to it when you don't even know about it, makes you look silly. Nowhere does evolution say man are apes.
atheists are those that believe there is no god, you dumbshit.Those that believe there is no god are atheists, including deists who believe god did exist, and did create the universe and now does not exist. They are atheists. Dumbshit.
Atheism is not science. Atheism is a philosophical conclusion that no god exists. That is all it is. No need to read up on evolution.... as I pointed out some atheists believe god created the universe and now does not exist... and they are called deists by the way.
Better to learn about your topic before trying to write anything about it, unless you are happy with being corrected a lot.
There is no requirement to say that god never did exist to be an atheist whatsoever. As per my example of deists who believe god does not exist... they are atheists even if they believe god did exist and now doesn't.
They believe there is no god, so they are atheists.
All powerful gods can't exist, or they could create a rock so heavy that it can't be lifted.
Omni-anything is contradictory and proof of nonexistence. No atheism required to say an omnipotent god cannot exist, just logic required to prove that. Easy to do as well.
If your assumption is true, none of what you have said is true. The real truth is that the most 'dangerous outlook" is that there is no absolute truth. Is it absolutely true that if you decided it is okay to breath water intead of air you will die? is it true that 2 + 2 is always 4? Is it true that you wrote this letter on a computer, it english? Is it true that without blood your brain cannot think and reason? Is it true that if your are honest, you can see the untruth of your position?
"If your assumption is true, none of what you have said is true"
I am not assuming that any truth must be proven or it may not be true. I am not assuming that if a truth is proven true that it is impossible for it to be absolute. Nothing is true until it is proven true and thus before it is proven true it is not true.... thus no truth is absolute.
"The real truth is that the most 'dangerous outlook" is that there is no absolute truth"
The only way someone can be talked into a suicide bombing is via the ridiculous reasoning that says truth is absolute. They will go to eternal paradise, so they think...
To violate formal logic so openly in the modern age is simply inexcusable.
The promotion of absolute truth is the promotion of extremism in it's ugliest form.
"Is it absolutely true that if you decided it is okay to breath water intead of air you will die?"
Statements about states of affairs are true or false, not the state of affairs. That statement did not exist forever, so it is not an absolute truth. All truths are systemic, they require proof and are not truths until proven true. Thus there are no absolute truths.
Absolute truth is a dangerous fairytale created by religious folk who didn't have modern logic.
Nope. Not before we had the rules of inference or before 2 was granted value, + was defined, equals was defined and 4 had a value. Not before mathematics existed. Not before language existed. Not before mind existed.
You have no truths for the future or past at all. All statements about the past and future are beliefs. A truth about an object proves it exists and the past and future don't.
"Is it true that you wrote this letter on a computer, it english?"
It wasn't true in the year 1800, so it is not an absolute truth.
"Is it true that without blood your brain cannot think and reason?"
Yes it is, it is proven true and until it was proven true it wasn't. No statements existed before languages did and all truths are statements. Therefore there are no absolute truths.
You gave an empirical truth, systematic, relative to a system of proof.
"Is it true that if your are honest, you can see the untruth of your position?"
It is a violation of all forms of logic that exist to say truth is absolute. It is proven false, as all falsehood or truths are.... proven.... thus they cannot be absolute. They were not true prior to being proven.
Truth is either empirical or tautologous, each is systemic... all truths are relative to a system of proof.
Empirical truths are percieved, tautologies are concieved.
Prior to mind, or prior to language existing.... no truths existed at all.
POOF goes the notion of any absolute truths.
Truths are a type of statement called a proposition, everytime.
An absolute truth must be true for every possible circumstance, always be true. No such truth can exist.
Absolutism is the single most dangerous outlook mankind ever concieved.... and is the logic of suicide bombers. Not everyone of course who subscribes to absolute truth is like that, but too many are.
Facts are not truths. Facts are properties of material objects. eg: if my pen is blue, blue is a fact about the pen.
Facts only apply to empirical truths, which are contingent and systematically dependent on the 5 senses to be shown as true.
There are no facts for tautologous truths, which are not percieved like empirical truths... they are concieved, not CONTINGENT on factual support, instead tautologies are NECESSARY per definition.
Each requires a system, a means of being shown true.
Is it a fact that you wrote this letter on a computer, in english and I received it? But you say that if I continue to claim you did so without adding additonal emperical evidence that you never did write it. This is like claiming 2+2 is not 4 without adding additional truth?
You might be tempted to believe drinking sulfuric acid will not harm you unless you personally have more imperical evidence to prove otherwise. This is the reasoning of uneducated men.
" But you say that if I continue to claim you did so without adding additonal emperical evidence that you never did write it."
When discussing truth you are limited to NOW. A truth about an object proves that the object exists. Existence applies NOW, not in the past and not in the future.
All future tense and past tense statements require inductive logic with exponentially increasing amounts of assumption ... depending on distance in time or space.
"Gravity" isn't true at all. Propositions are true or false, and only propositions. A proposition about gravity is true or false. Statements about gravity that are not proven true or false, are belief statements.
"Your statements have not been proven true or false, so there is no need to comment further."
Showing that you completely miss the point that if any truth is proven (and all truths must be), then that truth is not absolute (and none can be). No truth is valid until proven, thus no truth is absolute. Each truth is dependent on it's system of proof, relative to that system of proof, not true at all without it.
It wasn't true before I was 5, so it is not an absolute truth. Absolute truth must be forever or it isn't what is being called an absolute truth. No tuths can possibly be absolute... the notion is utterly rediculous.
Nope. All past tense statements are beliefs. You and I both need belief to say anything about the past.
You seem to miss the point that "absolute truth" is always true. Forever and ever amen true. No truth CAN be that. Truth did not always exist and cannot exist in lieu of proof, logic, mind and language. Onoy after those things exist can any truth exist.
Sorry, but absolute truth is not only a contradictory term, it is dangerous and the backbone to the mindset of suicide bombers.
@gklr You should learn some logic. The truth is there was no global flood, fact. It takes 'belief' if there is not evidence to support your statements.
The word "absolute" is a LABEL that is very vague and is used to instill confusion by mandating a god. It is meaningless to apply this label next to the word TRUTH. What does it add to it?
If something is true, then it is what it IS; TRUE.
To prove that there is an absolute truth, show me one statement that is "absolutely true" and a second similar statement (in the same sense and context) that is just "true". Then tell me what the DIFFERENCE in truth is between those 2 statements.
"there is only 1 source of truth"
lol
1+1=2 is true. Oops, it isn't in the bible.
No truth can be absolute, since all truths need to be proven true. Nothing is true until proven true... thus nothing is or can be always true.
Religious people should stray away from trying to speak while using logical terms like "truth" until they are prepared to learn about them.
gklr 3 months ago
The creator of the universe is the source of truth. It is found in the laws of nature, mathematics, etc. The Bible is the only truth for spiritual truth.
cootsfortruth 3 months ago
@cootsfortruth,
I believe there is no creator of the universe. Truth is a word. All words were invented by mankind. The word truth did not always exist, so nothing can be an absolute truth.
Man invented mathematics as well.
There are no such things as "spiritual truths". Truth comes in 2 forms, empirical truth and tautologous truth. All statements that are spiritual are either beliefs or false. Not 1 of them is proven true.
gklr 3 months ago
@gklr
Sorry! Was Jesus a real man who lived on this earth 2,000 years ago, was a great teacher and healer, was killed on a Roman cross?
Every reliable history verifies it.
cootsfortruth 3 months ago
@cootsfortruth,
No reliable history verifies it. That is what makes it so unlikely that Jesus existed as a man anymore than Cupid existed.
The Romans were terrific record keepers, and Pilate existed as a man if we are to believe historical records... and he never tried a man names Jesus, never even left Rome.
The first "historical" record of Jesus came about 50 years after his alleged death, and that was from a discreditted historian.
gklr 2 months ago
@gklr
Wow! It's you against all the historians in the world1
Who am I to believe???????????????
cootsfortruth 2 months ago
@cootsfortruth,
"Wow! It's you against all the historians in the world1"
Hardly. Many historians have doubted Jesus ever existed.
Is that what they teach you in church? lol. Try reading some historians!
The first account of Jesus outside of scripture was 50 years after his death. That is like first hearing of Hitler in 1995, or Michael Jackson in 2059.
And it is unecessary since the god of the bible is proven to not exist. Whether a man named Jesus ever existed is irrelevent.
gklr 2 months ago
Actually, Thallus, (Roman historian) wrote about the darkness during the crucifixion of Jesus in 52 A.D. (19 years after the crucifixion) Cornelius Tacitus (Romand- 54-68 A.D.) wrote that the followers of Christus were called Christians...and Jesus was crucified during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of Pilate. (35 years after Jesus was killed). Josephus (Greatest Jewish historian of the time) said Jesus was a great wise, teacher... and the Jewish messiah. (70 A.D)
You are wrong!
cootsfortruth 2 months ago
@gklr
The Bible letter of Luke (the story of Jesus) was written to Theophilus, a Roman official. Theophilus had access to the official records and would have verified Luke's account. He found no objection to Luke's letter. In fact, Luke's second book to Theophilus (Acts) implies Theophilus was a believer. We learn from secular history that Jesus lived, died on a Roman cross, was raised from the dead and appeared to many witnesses. The rest of the story is in the historical New Testament!
cootsfortruth 2 months ago
Humans are Primates.....ABSOLUTE TRUTH
gregrutz 4 months ago
@gregrutz,
Humans were not primates before primates existed or before humans existed, thus "humans are primates" is not an absolute truth. There is no logical possibility of any truth being absolute. If you used a hint of logic in what you say you would realize why as well.
gklr 3 months ago
@gklr Scientific classification if of us.
Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Mammalia
Order: Primates
Family: Hominidae [Great Ape]
Tribe: Hominini
Genus: Homo
Species: H. sapiens
Humans are still primates.
gregrutz 3 months ago
@gregrutz,
Absolute truth is what is always true, forever and ever amen true..... no such possibility since all truths must be proven true and are not true until they are proven true.
You're trying to discuss a matter that you have no idea about.
Humans are primates was not true before either existed, or before logic existed, or before truth existed, or before language existed.... therefore it is not an absolute truth.
Absolute truth is a joke the religious tell.
gklr 3 months ago
@gregrutz,
Before the earth existed "humans are primates" was not true... or even meaningful. POOF goes your argument.
Absolute truth is a dangerous bit of nonsense since it is what every suicide bomber believes in or they couldn't kill themselves.
Absolute truth is retarded, and violates the basics of formal logic itself. It is idiotic and simply has to go.... it is only suggested by people utterly ignorant of logic itself.
gklr 3 months ago
@gklr Truth, Ever since humans evolved they have been apes.
gregrutz 3 months ago
@gregrutz,
Humans were never apes. Humans are BELIEVED to have evolvd from the same ancestor as apes evolved from.
No truth exists for the past or for the future. A truth about an object proves that object exists and the past and the future do not exist.
gklr 3 months ago
@gregrutz,
Evolution by the way is a complete strawman argument that fundamentalist religious types have you fooled into thinking you must maintain.
More theists than atheists believe in evolution.
An atheist can believe, and many deists do, that god created the universe and now god doesn't exist.
Evolution has nothing to do with atheism in anyway shape or form. Adhering to it when you don't even know about it, makes you look silly. Nowhere does evolution say man are apes.
gklr 3 months ago
@gklr You are kind of fucked up. seek help.
gregrutz 3 months ago
@gregrutz,
Insulting those that simply correct you, is not an argument.
gklr 3 months ago
@gklr ''atheist.. believe.. that god created the universe'' YOU THINK THAT STATMENT CORRECTS ME ?!?
ATHIEST DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD DUMB SHIT.
gregrutz 3 months ago
@gregrutz,
atheists are those that believe there is no god, you dumbshit.Those that believe there is no god are atheists, including deists who believe god did exist, and did create the universe and now does not exist. They are atheists. Dumbshit.
gklr 3 months ago
@gregrutz,
Saying atheists do not believe, is true, but says nothing about atheists you dumbshit.
It says what atheists do not do, which does not speak a thing about atheists in anyway shape or form.
When no atheists existed, and no truths existed for atheists, it was true that atheists did not believe in a god. Dumbshit.
No-one is an atheist, or anything, if they do not do something. Dumbshit.
gklr 3 months ago
@gregrutz,
Evolution has nothing to do with atheism at all.
Nor does any science.
Atheism is not science. Atheism is a philosophical conclusion that no god exists. That is all it is. No need to read up on evolution.... as I pointed out some atheists believe god created the universe and now does not exist... and they are called deists by the way.
Better to learn about your topic before trying to write anything about it, unless you are happy with being corrected a lot.
gklr 3 months ago
@gklr Atheism is a philosophical conclusion that no god exists. AND NEVER DID.
gregrutz 3 months ago
@gregrutz,
There is no requirement to say that god never did exist to be an atheist whatsoever. As per my example of deists who believe god does not exist... they are atheists even if they believe god did exist and now doesn't.
They believe there is no god, so they are atheists.
gklr 3 months ago
@gklr all powerful gods don't just go away.
gregrutz 3 months ago
@gregrutz,
All powerful gods can't exist, or they could create a rock so heavy that it can't be lifted.
Omni-anything is contradictory and proof of nonexistence. No atheism required to say an omnipotent god cannot exist, just logic required to prove that. Easy to do as well.
gklr 3 months ago
If your assumption is true, none of what you have said is true. The real truth is that the most 'dangerous outlook" is that there is no absolute truth. Is it absolutely true that if you decided it is okay to breath water intead of air you will die? is it true that 2 + 2 is always 4? Is it true that you wrote this letter on a computer, it english? Is it true that without blood your brain cannot think and reason? Is it true that if your are honest, you can see the untruth of your position?
cootsfortruth 8 months ago
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@cootsfortruth,
"If your assumption is true, none of what you have said is true"
I am not assuming that any truth must be proven or it may not be true. I am not assuming that if a truth is proven true that it is impossible for it to be absolute. Nothing is true until it is proven true and thus before it is proven true it is not true.... thus no truth is absolute.
All truths are relative to a system of proof.
gklr 8 months ago
@cootsfortruth,
"The real truth is that the most 'dangerous outlook" is that there is no absolute truth"
The only way someone can be talked into a suicide bombing is via the ridiculous reasoning that says truth is absolute. They will go to eternal paradise, so they think...
To violate formal logic so openly in the modern age is simply inexcusable.
The promotion of absolute truth is the promotion of extremism in it's ugliest form.
gklr 8 months ago
@cootsfortruth,
"Is it absolutely true that if you decided it is okay to breath water intead of air you will die?"
Statements about states of affairs are true or false, not the state of affairs. That statement did not exist forever, so it is not an absolute truth. All truths are systemic, they require proof and are not truths until proven true. Thus there are no absolute truths.
Absolute truth is a dangerous fairytale created by religious folk who didn't have modern logic.
gklr 8 months ago
@cootsfortruth,
"is it true that 2 + 2 is always 4?"
Nope. Not before we had the rules of inference or before 2 was granted value, + was defined, equals was defined and 4 had a value. Not before mathematics existed. Not before language existed. Not before mind existed.
You have no truths for the future or past at all. All statements about the past and future are beliefs. A truth about an object proves it exists and the past and future don't.
gklr 8 months ago
@cootsfortruth,
"Is it true that you wrote this letter on a computer, it english?"
It wasn't true in the year 1800, so it is not an absolute truth.
"Is it true that without blood your brain cannot think and reason?"
Yes it is, it is proven true and until it was proven true it wasn't. No statements existed before languages did and all truths are statements. Therefore there are no absolute truths.
You gave an empirical truth, systematic, relative to a system of proof.
gklr 8 months ago
@cootsfortruth,
"Is it true that if your are honest, you can see the untruth of your position?"
It is a violation of all forms of logic that exist to say truth is absolute. It is proven false, as all falsehood or truths are.... proven.... thus they cannot be absolute. They were not true prior to being proven.
Truth is either empirical or tautologous, each is systemic... all truths are relative to a system of proof.
Empirical truths are percieved, tautologies are concieved.
gklr 8 months ago
Prior to mind, or prior to language existing.... no truths existed at all.
POOF goes the notion of any absolute truths.
Truths are a type of statement called a proposition, everytime.
An absolute truth must be true for every possible circumstance, always be true. No such truth can exist.
Absolutism is the single most dangerous outlook mankind ever concieved.... and is the logic of suicide bombers. Not everyone of course who subscribes to absolute truth is like that, but too many are.
gklr 8 months ago
Facts are not truths. Facts are properties of material objects. eg: if my pen is blue, blue is a fact about the pen.
Facts only apply to empirical truths, which are contingent and systematically dependent on the 5 senses to be shown as true.
There are no facts for tautologous truths, which are not percieved like empirical truths... they are concieved, not CONTINGENT on factual support, instead tautologies are NECESSARY per definition.
Each requires a system, a means of being shown true.
gklr 8 months ago
@gklr
Is it a fact that you wrote this letter on a computer, in english and I received it? But you say that if I continue to claim you did so without adding additonal emperical evidence that you never did write it. This is like claiming 2+2 is not 4 without adding additional truth?
You might be tempted to believe drinking sulfuric acid will not harm you unless you personally have more imperical evidence to prove otherwise. This is the reasoning of uneducated men.
Is this your God complex?
cootsfortruth 8 months ago
@cootsfortruth,
" But you say that if I continue to claim you did so without adding additonal emperical evidence that you never did write it."
When discussing truth you are limited to NOW. A truth about an object proves that the object exists. Existence applies NOW, not in the past and not in the future.
All future tense and past tense statements require inductive logic with exponentially increasing amounts of assumption ... depending on distance in time or space.
gklr 8 months ago
Truth needs proof. If proven, it is systemic, relative to a system of proof.
Absolute truth is impossible and it's easy to prove why.
gklr 1 year ago
@gklr So something needs to be proven to be true? Gravity wasn't true until it was proven?
db247310 8 months ago
@db247310,
"Gravity" isn't true at all. Propositions are true or false, and only propositions. A proposition about gravity is true or false. Statements about gravity that are not proven true or false, are belief statements.
gklr 8 months ago
@gklr
This is positively proveable double-talk
cootsfortruth 8 months ago
@gklr
This is positive proveable double-talk
cootsfortruth 8 months ago
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@gklr
Your statements have not been proven true or false, so there is no need to comment further.
cootsfortruth 8 months ago
@cootsfortruth,
"Your statements have not been proven true or false, so there is no need to comment further."
Showing that you completely miss the point that if any truth is proven (and all truths must be), then that truth is not absolute (and none can be). No truth is valid until proven, thus no truth is absolute. Each truth is dependent on it's system of proof, relative to that system of proof, not true at all without it.
Absolute truth is magic for the uneducated.
gklr 8 months ago
@gklr You are over the age of 5, that is an abosolute TRUTH.
gregrutz 4 months ago
@gregrutz,
It wasn't true before I was 5, so it is not an absolute truth. Absolute truth must be forever or it isn't what is being called an absolute truth. No tuths can possibly be absolute... the notion is utterly rediculous.
gklr 4 months ago
@gklr YOU WERE 5 YEARS OLD AT ONE TIME... ABSOLUTE TRUTH
DIP
gregrutz 4 months ago
@gregrutz,
Nope. All past tense statements are beliefs. You and I both need belief to say anything about the past.
You seem to miss the point that "absolute truth" is always true. Forever and ever amen true. No truth CAN be that. Truth did not always exist and cannot exist in lieu of proof, logic, mind and language. Onoy after those things exist can any truth exist.
Sorry, but absolute truth is not only a contradictory term, it is dangerous and the backbone to the mindset of suicide bombers.
gklr 4 months ago
@gklr You should learn some logic. The truth is there was no global flood, fact. It takes 'belief' if there is not evidence to support your statements.
gregrutz 4 months ago
@gregrutz,
Why don't you show me what logic I need to learn? Point to a single error, thanks.
I never said there was a global flood.... I am an atheist. You might try doing a little research on people you try to reply to.
gklr 3 months ago
Comment removed
WAKEUPstudios 2 years ago
this is a satire right?
MillManD500 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The word "absolute" is a LABEL that is very vague and is used to instill confusion by mandating a god. It is meaningless to apply this label next to the word TRUTH. What does it add to it?
If something is true, then it is what it IS; TRUE.
To prove that there is an absolute truth, show me one statement that is "absolutely true" and a second similar statement (in the same sense and context) that is just "true". Then tell me what the DIFFERENCE in truth is between those 2 statements.
fatfist 2 years ago
I like your simple to the point style.
copscott 3 years ago