Donald Fagen talks about PEG pt 2

[denton428]

I have this on VHS somewhere, but no way to play it...

[smartcooky99]

@denton428 You can get it trasvferred onto DVD

[satdarshansingh]

Mr. Fagen gives me a lot of joy with his chords, thanks!

I love Warren Bernhardt too

[Ingr9821]

great technical information, even if it is sophisticated musically

[DougFCKNSteele]

I'm a guitarist, but I like learning theory from piano teachers, thanks for posting.

[jehosh5577]

Piano lessons from the master!

[R0SSTav]

if you are reading this you clicked on part 2. this means you win at life.

[grade21]

@R0SSTav winning . . .

[petenick96]

I'm only 15, and I love Steely Dan. I also love Queen and the Beatles and Rush and so many more fantastic bands. My peers influence me, but I also influence my peers.

[1wayne12345]

How cool is this???? To get a lesson from the Master of one of my favorite songs.

YEAH!!!!!!!!

Thanks for the post!

[Toilalo]

The real deal!!! Awesome!

[turtlelovers3]

You know, so many people these days just sing crappy music like rap and stuff. I really hate that- there's no musicality- nothing. I am really sad that people like donald fagen aren't appreciated by younger kids these days. Man this guy is awesome...

[taemurz]

Masters of the universe .. MANY thanks for sharing this video ..

[captjay2008]

Donald looks like Scott Storch, another great pianist

[GuiitarBilly]

If not already mentioned,. this is from the excellent "Piano Jazz" vid Don did during the years Steely Dan was "broken up." Circa early 90s he was getting his musical feet wet again: jamming out, writing for a music magazine- and forming the New York Rock And Soul Review that led to SD reuniting. Pretty sure any discussions of Steely Dan lyrics need to include Walter Becker. And from the hilarious interviews they've given since 1993, you'll never get straight answers about the words:)

[hemetbrent]

Yet, Debussy wasn't too jazzy, now was he? No pep in his depth. Hahaha. Smiles for everyone. De planes, de planes.

[gackstacker]

you dont have to explain a song like Peg,man. Cmon Donald!

[apparentlybrian]

@gackstacker Well he could have done the "I'm a rock genius, my music speaks for itself, piss off" thing but he didn't. I think it's pretty bloody refreshing to have a rock star sit down and actually just describe some of the musical ideas behind the songs in a friendly, one on one talk/lesson/performance. Really do appreciate all involved and thanks for posting as well.

[intrinsicx]

Top Musicianship here people!!! :)

[casestudyification]

This was really great, but I was hoping Don would talk about the lyrics. I've been in love with this song since I first heard it when I was 13. Been a Dan fan ever since.

[vampyros1]

Aw, stop groveling ... you held your own-

[cobaltjones]

now you're playing dumb and you were the passionate one sweety. ciao

[cobaltjones]

I'll try to be patient with you. When one surrounds a word in quotation marks, like "jazz", it refers to someone other than himself calling it that. You called Debussy Classical without quotation marks. I then corrected the academic error by supplying the "correct" label, not correct for me personally, but for the commonly well versed listener. I'm beginning to think Steely Dan is a little bit too important to you. I like them but they're not deep. That was my point.

[vampyros1]

@cobaltjones Well no, impressionism falls under the moniker of classical as a sub-genre, silly. Follow; when one doesn't surround a word in quotation marks, as you did with "impressionistic" and "classical", it refers to himself calling it that. You refuted the validity of the 'genre' concept, and then proceeded to utilize it twice. You are deep though ..... lol I do enjoy seeing people without "ears" get passionate about what others tell them is good, though. Happy listening, my friend.

[cobaltjones]

In trumpet players, Doc Severinsen could play circles around Miles Davis; although Doc isn't entirely without creativity, he is by no stretch of the imagination a visionary like Davis. Doc's solos are clean and nearly flawless. Arturo Sandoval is another chops player who can't create. Don't be fooled by a flurry of notes. Slow them down and they're cliches and scales. As far as pathos, you're pretending it's purely subjective. Is Steely Dan's music sad? no it isn't. It's cool, aloof and ironic.

[vampyros1]

@cobaltjones Your obsession w/pathos is a red herring. Music can be devastatingly emotional sans the maudlin goo you've a penchant for. Can Fagen-music be "cool, aloof, ironic"? Uh huh ... hey pal, welcome to JAZZ. It's also, at turns, buoyant, introspective, beautiful, and melancholic. It's rich in imaginative and tasteful chord progressions, emotive soloing, lyrical play and dynamism. To dismiss it as "music for boys" because it's beyond the scope of your 'ear' speaks volumes about you.

[7thvenom]

@vampyros1 BOTH OF "YOU" ARE SOME SMART MOTHER FUCKERS !!!!

ONLY 7 % OF THE WORLD COULD UNDERSTAND WHAT THE HELL YOU TWO ARE TALKING ABOUT.

I GUESS THE ONE THING I GOT FROM YOUR WORDS & SENTENCE BATTLE IS THAT YOU BOTH

LOVE AND UNDERSTAND REAL MUSIC !!!! CHEERS TO "COBALTJONES" VS "VAMPYROS"

[cobaltjones]

You're rather aggressive without necessity. Miles Davis was not a technical player. He splats notes all over the place and doesn't care, because he has creative vision. Fagen had creative vision and is no great player himself. Apparently you missed my illustration of the pointlessness of categorizing. I didn't categorize, I made reference to social and academic labels. I guess I would sum up Steely Dan as music for boys. Try this dichotomy -Oscar Petersen, a player, versus Bill Evans.

[vampyros1]

@cobaltjones If I thought you were feigning ignorance, I wouldn't bother ... when you refer to Debussy as "impressionistic" and not "classical", and to "jazz", then you're citing >genres<, all of which follows your opener of "genres have no meaning". Talk about schizoid. You've embraced genre-speak because you obviously love it, so ix-nay the pseudo-edgy posturing of thinking it's cool to eschew it ... (yawn). Can you grasp that elemental truism?

[cobaltjones]

genres have no meaning. period. they are social or academic constructs. Debussy is "classified" as impressionistic anyway, not classical. when we define type, we distance ourselves from direct experience. Fagen does have a spark of genius, but he lacks pathos and uses cleverness to avoid depth of feeling. if we have to type music, there is far more mediocrity in instrumental "jazz" than almost anything else, owing largely to the fact that players are left brained, can't create and don't know it.

[vampyros1]

@cobaltjones The 'concept' of genres has no rightful meaning for the creating mind, but as a communicative reference for ball-parking people in the right musical vicinity, it has relevance. Your usage (in a single paragraph) of no less than 3 is testament ... the first for which Debussy would have called you an "imbecile", and the third wherein you lay claim that Miles Davis couldn't create and was oblivious to it. A clairvoyant couldn't fathom Fagens' "pathos", let alone an illusory fucktard-

[marcimello]

the ultimate jam session (4:28-) !!!!!!!

[cobaltjones]

I endlessly applaud their musical sophistication, but it lacks something, emotional depth. It tends to be sleek music for musicians, but it doesn't really enchant. Contrast these chord sequences, which I do admire and enjoy, with Claude Debussy's Beau Soir, written before he was twenty. Now, if someone is finally able to synthesize Debussian chord ether with groove(losing all sense of the one), we will truly be in a new age. It relates strongly to having both genders present in the psyche.

[vampyros1]

@cobaltjones Well, there's an element of subjectivity involved, but you're mixing apples and oranges; the two pieces were intended to invoke different moods. This certainly enchants me, and by and large, I consider jazz to be a far more spiritual genre than classical, which, to me, is rife with mediocrity to a point that frequently quells any desire to discover the nuggets for fear of the trawl. Fagen is a genius.

[TVTasten]

Immer wieder interessant!

[designermite]

Very cool. Thanks!

[allyoursphotography1]

actually there are good young musicians, they just can't get record deals - check out Michael Mann from the UK.

[Abbatton]

Donal Fagen is like the Stanley Kubrick of music. It especially reminds me of this when hearing him speak in comparison to this Kubrick audio interview.



[nergvol]

So glad it doesn't take talent to enjoy this music!  two thumbs up and a few more.

[kperk014]

Awesome!

[Peter0656]

No wonder I can't play it!

[tyleryesta1]

if wish he'd do this for some of his earlier stuff to. this is great stuff

[bagley232]

I love this song good see the backdrop on how it was put together

[DeuceTV]

This is the GOOD STUFF right here!!!

[Khultan]

I just can't stop grinning. I LOVE THIS!!!

[Nick300wm]

I don't understand the musical technician stuff, but I know it's brilliant, and I could watch this all day!

[DDRaHolic]

It's amazing to watch music being constructed.

[oldbump]

damnit !

[StKittsDave]

Don's the coolest cat .

[keykrazy0]

@towelboy12 re "that E7sus4 in the chorus sounds more like a minor 9th chord somehow in the way he plays it here. ... maybe m. macdonald's vocals in the original version? had something to do with this?"

I can't hear the actual audio while i'm still at work :-/ but i know just what you mean... Maybe Michael's singing the 9th of the chord or something? There's another video somewhere ("Making of Aja"?) where Michael mentions having to sing two notes only a whole step apart (9th or 2nd)..

[nedmanxxx]

1:12

[nedmanxxx]

1:26

[tyleryesta1]

a classic example of 3 against 4 is in the organ solo of Light my fire.

[kitakashiwa]

Donnie sure knows how to tickle the ivories!

[olliespike2]

Don is THE Don of New York...

[JustAintthatWay]

around 2:40 mr b says, '3 against 4

kinda feeling'

can anyone explain what that means

to a novice (me)

+ plus it always amazes me how sometimes the original composer seems to know less about a song than the person s/he is discussing it with

it s not that way of course just that

those of us so taken w/ a song

look at it in more ways than the writer did

jerry reed had a quip, 'just b/c i wrote a song dont mean i know how to play it'

that kinda thing sorta ...

[Karnevil717]

it's time signiture i believe from watever the time sig is in the begining to 3 beats for every 4(use a metronome to hear it

[benvye]

At that point Warren is clapping his hands, so I think it pertains to 3 accents in 4/4 timing.

[GraFZhL]

'3 against 4' basically describes a poly-rhythm where you play 3 strokes (or notes or whatever) over the same time that 4 strokes would need at a given tempo. If you do both, playing 3 strokes AND 4 strokes (with different limbs for example), you get the '3 against 4 feeling'. Playing 8th-triplets with your left hand and 16th notes with your right (on the drums maybe) would be an easy-to-understand example.

[naedsukram]

@GraFZhL in that part of Peg, he is accenting every third 8th note with those chords, creating accents which sound 3/4 withing the 4/4 groove.

[GraFZhL]

Ok I see, but then it's not a real 3 against 4 feel, but rather (as you said) a 3/4 withing the actual 4/4 signature.

[naedsukram]

for 2 bars it is real, it gives the impression of 3/4 but he doesn't continue it into a full polyrhythm, just goes back to the 4/4 groove of the intro. But that bit is actually more of a 6/8 feel anyway, u can imagine those few chords as the basis for a blues song on its own. He's one of the greatest writers.

[JustAintthatWay]

i wish i could adequately describe what this composition means to me

its effect

i cant but it s okay b/c everyone reading this is here for the same reason

it s so much more than just another song

t/y very much for the share

[edgarallanpoet]

Warren is tearing it up!

[Paparexi]

fantastic! what a great piece of film. I just learned this on guitar. Hearing the theory behind it is amazing. I have seen SD 6 times and they always play Peg. Where is this song i writing today, where is the harmony???

[satinhooks]

all that good music stuff has gone down the toilet.

young folks don't look up to older musicians anymore.

they're all influenced directly by their own peers. and that sucks.

[clarencekellerII]

don't worry lol! I'm 22 and I love these guys. Although I will admit, my generation does suck! Trying to share this music with all of my friends!

[GDarkstar74]

that's not true. my biggest influence is Frank Zappa, along with a lot of jazz fusion like Al Di Meola, John McLaughlin, Stanley Clarke, etc. And I also love Steely Dan. I don't know if you're a musician or not but if you are you'd know that there are plenty of good young musicians who only play and listen to that good stuff.

[satinhooks]

i'm not taking about the all the young people playing sophisticated music. i'm talking about the overwhelming number of young musicians like ourselves who aren't even aware of music like this & don't 'get it' for whatever reason.

what i mean specifically is that Steely Dan was a mainstream act. Who the hell is doing pop music that is this advanced that EVERYONE knows about?

99% of 18 year olds don't even know who frank zappa is.

this kinda musicianship should b reintroduced to the mainstream.

[GDarkstar74]

exactly. that's a point i was going to make, how music like Steely Dan would never be played on the radio today, because pop music has deteriorated to the point where even the popular new rock groups are just awful. There's nothing mainstream which is good right now outside of the jazz scene, because jazz appeals to those of us who actually know music.

[naedsukram]

really good point, it should be heard by everyone, especially young aspiring writers, or even non musicians. But, the young are force fed their musical tastes by media, and so many producers/writers repeat the 'recipes' for hit songs..."get to the chorus in under 50secs" mentality. There's still quality music out there, lot of genres now...but a lot of gimmicky crap too : )

[olliespike2]

@naedsukram

The great Donny F.

Love you man.

Love from Dublin, Ireland

M.

[Khultan]

@satinhooks You identified the problem directly.

[coachcdobbs]

@satinhooks Im going to respectfully disagree with that to an extent. Being a young musician myself, I think in order to grow you have to look up to people who have "been there, done that". There are plenty of young musicians who are very rehearsed in music theory and are very good writers as well. We get a bad name because of what you hear on mainstream radio. It isnt our fault! There are plenty of young guys making great music, but the business wants to sell faces, not songwriters anymore...

[satinhooks]

@coachcdobbs

that's my point. there are institutions cranking out great studio musicians, leaders & sidemen. u are an exception.

Steely Dan used to be young people making pop music on mainstream radio. if there were an abundance of young folks paying their dues & really understanding/embracing sophisticated musics like this, those monster record companies would be promoting them, because it would make money.

those kind of young people are sort of rare these days.

[steg111]

@satinhooks there are plenty of young musicians and bands that look up to classic artists. just depends on what genre you're trying to ingest

[satinhooks]

@steg111

genres something for record labels to sort out. genre categories are ultimately there as an aid to sell music. my only point is that this level of musicianship & understanding are not present in popular music today. nothing to do with genres. this stuff isn't popular because it isn't widely embraced and that's a shame.

it would be easier to stomach Chris Brown, Katy Perry & all the other pop drivel if it was accompanied by musical sophistication, & not just amazing production.

[steg111]

@satinhooks that's all I meant. the pop music today, of course, has nowhere near the level of musicianship of pop during the 60s and 70s. That's what I meant by looking to other genres. there are still young folks who are cranking out hot jazz in empty clubs every week.

[danboyguitar94]

@satinhooks i agree however i'm 18 and Steely Dan are my Favourite band i'v been playing guitar for 5 years now and am loving it. If it wasn't for Steely Dan i wouldn't have learnt anywhere near as much as i'v already learnt. It's a shame nobody else my age likes them :(

[WappsOps]

@danboyguitar94 So true, man. Steely Dan's work is so wide, you can learn like ten songs and be pretty far out there.

[gabe25591]

@danboyguitar94 Wrong about nobody else. I'm right there with you. Started when I was 12, never looked back

[DancingSpiderman]

@satinhooks Yeah i gree.

A case in point: That god-awful "Duck Sauce - Barbara Streisand" .

[Dannymusic1999]

@satinhooks so... true.

[johnnymason15]

@satinhooks im 16 i can play most of the dans tunes on piano pretty well, i own all their own albums not just showbiz kidz, and fagens solo works.

im the exception

[ESmithStringSlinger]

@satinhooks Yes,that does.Still influenced by these guys and my favs.Beck,Mclaughlin,Clapton,F­agen,Nick Hopkins,,Page,Uncle Ray.Just to name a few.I'm a a guitarist at 46,and catch some new rhyths.

[TheCoolBand1]

@satinhooks That is not all true. We are a band and you can bet I listen to guys like "The Dan" and are significantly influenced in my song writing. We pull from Motown, old 60s soul, 90s hip hop, reggae, everything and we are all 26.

[badnolar]

@satinhooks wrong.



[satinhooks]

@badnolar

dang dude, if I was so wrong, wouldn't there be an abundance of sophisticated music young people play and follow? this was the pop music of it's time. Maroon 5 doesn't even have it together musically like this. Please name a few popular recording acts that aren't mostly interesting production.

[toodietoodieomg]

@satinhooks I'm 17, and I've been listening to steely dan and curtis mayfield since I was a baby...

[satinhooks]

@toodietoodieomg

you're an exception. most 17 yr olds don't have a clue who Steely Dan OR Curtis Mayfield is.

[DukeIrritable]

@satinhooks

Don't diss Rap, Dude.

Tone deaf people need music too :-P

[27dedrummer]

@satinhooks i disagree, i listen to steely dan regularly and i still can appreciate music (not commercial entertainment) thats made today. plus, we are all our own peers, i dont wanna be one of those "im 17 comments" but don't lose faith in good music.

[timothysmyth1]

First, whoever responded to my question by email, thank you very much. Wow, so Mr. Bernhardt was a personal friend of Bill Evans! The Village Vanguard sessions are true landmarks and personal favorites. (I also dig the Tony Bennet collaborations, some of the best-felt renditions of some of the best songs ever written.) Mr. Fagen's chording is an interesting contrast to that of Mr. Evans, a more "angular" approach than Bill's subtle inner voice leading (or so it sounds to a non-keyboardist).

[timothysmyth1]

Who is the gentleman with whom Mr. Fagen converses?

[hoodooskidoo]

His name is Warren Bernhardt who has been steely Dan's musical director on several of their tours over the years. Warren is also an accomplished pianist who was a personal friend of the late Bill Evans.

[tinytotom913]

ha ha i dont mean to be horrible but are you from the 19th century?

[jjmatashi]

Utterly sublime. Stumbled on this at 4 in the morning. It is wonderfully inspiring. Thanks for posting it.

[caraphyllis]

These two videos about Peg offer wonderful insight into the Steely Dan musical process, how they tweak standard harmonic conventions like the basic blues, to create something we haven't heard before. This vid also reveals Fagen's best skill, which is as a composer. A great improviser he's not. But that's ok, he hires the best people to improvise on the great tunes he and Becker write. Works out just fine.

[Vidsquad]

Fantastic inside video- please post more!!

[xpinkdog]

Christ, that guy with the shades is like totally boring.

[upstart555]

That was a boring thing to say

[clarencekellerII]

lol

[arsofe]

Thank you very much for posting this, priceless.

[towelboy12]

that E7sus4 in the chorus sounds more like a minor 9th chord somehow in the way he plays it here. you can hear the suspension, but it sounds like a darker chord to me. maybe m. macdonald's vocals in the original version had something to do with this? maybe i'm just hearing things..

[Brianjonestown]

Yeah, you're onto something there...the original even seems to resolve to the major 3rd. Fagen may be demonstrating it the way he hears and performs the chart today.

[earnestf]

Donald Fagen is a freakin' mad scientist. Brilliant.

[mozo32]

Great! Thanks for making this available!