Void Collos might be strong but it takes a lot of recourses to get out. I mean you need atleast 2 bases to get voids and collos out at the same time with a small support army. If you can harras toss in the early game and stall his macro a bit you will fuck up getting those collo/rays out. Yeah once they are out they are strong but its pretty hard to get them out.
ZvP does favor the protoss player, since all that Z has is pretty much roach/curroptor and the fact that protoss only need to be on 2 base to get up and decent deathball so it dosn`t matter how much harrasment you do or how much map controll you have since you wont be able to kill that deathball no matter how many waves of units you make, you won win...
is mass muta not a viable option?? I find that mass muta wins against equal size balls of stalkers. they would be forced to make templars for storm or archons which is gas heavy and they cant do that with colo and void rays..
comon i saw 3 episodes before commenting all you do guys is wah nerf protoss waaah nurf terran a lil bit we zergs are so helpless... comon guys man up and find strategies for countering colossi i mean mercy zerg max out like 5 mins before toss use it! really!
This was outdated the day it was posted on Youtube. The old fungal raped deathballs too. Hell, nowadays zergs are raping the deathball without using fungal at all.
I'm no Idra, but I really don't think infesters are overpowered, I think the problem people have is that they aren’t too bad against anything. You ever tried to chain fungal void rays though... it takes forever, and infesters are pretty big and easy to focus fire... If there has to be a nurf, I'd place it on the time it takes to get them out, not the unit itself, there a much easier option then holding till spire at the moment, making them easily favourable.
@mozzaneek Infesters are balanced. It's a play style issue on behalf of most terran and protoss' that make infestors so good. High templars can 1 shot infesters with feedback and 2-3 ghosts can counter 12 infestors. People just need to learn how to deal and react to zerg rather than just depending on the zerg to play completely reactionary.
@jshnaidz245 Exactly, on an episode of state of the game artosis and Idra were saying that they were going to start doing this show again but would actually not have an episode on infestors. Not only do ghosts/templar kill off energy units, but they have a dual role against the rest of zerg's army with their other spells. Artosis even mentioned that ghosts might be too strong against zerg lategame because they emp infestors and snipe the tier 3 units.
@jshnaidz245 Give me a break, Ghosts pretty much only "counters" Infestors because SC2 players these days are so fond of binding every single Infestor to 1 hotkey and not bringing Overseers.
A suitable nerf would be removing the energy upgrade, this way all the caster "classes" are equal.
@Taiki1234 So snipe/emp doesn't counter infestor? Yes it does are you retarded. Infestors are only useful with energy and one EMP is equal to one fungal in energy. Though when a ghost has used his snipes or emps on the infestors the ghost can still do a fair amount of DPS with auto attacks.
@anttonoo Do you know why Templars and Infestors doesn't do shit after they're out of energy? It's because they fawking kill shit with their AoE abilities, unlike ghosts. Also, every second spent EMP'ing is a second not spent micro'ing marines and if the marines dies, everything dies.
@Taiki1234 if you suck so much that you can't click a hotkey with ghosts spam click E then click a hotkey with marines and hit t and run then you just suck and should honestly not talk about balance ever. ghosts can do everything they want cloaked and also have a 100/100 way to move an entire army to get into a better position. i can't remember the last time i fungaled a group of marines burrowed but i do remember the last time my broodlords get sniped and my infestors get EMPd
@chickenlittle3724 I don't EMP because I don't play Terran? Makes sense? And you should do you carefull consideration before you say that someone suck when you can't Fungal properly. Also, you're for real? You let your Broods get sniped by Ghosts?
@Taiki1234 before i can even see the ghost.don't even try to say that "oh you need overseers" because last time i checked you should be able to EASILY snipe overseers before anything can happen...
@Taiki1234 Yeah because it's so hard to drop four emps? It's like saying every second a zerg is using infestors they arn't stutterstepping or focus firing with roaches. You can still do it will mulitask, fungal and emp take like two seconds to cast. Though you need to recast fungal while you only need to throw some emp's out once.
@Taiki1234 Oh and you only adressed my later point on the versatility of the Ghost and not the balance of the infestor. Meaning that you probably havn't got a response to what I said.
@anttonoo Oh so you want me to address the balance of Infestors?
264*8 = 2112 total worth of damage. That is what one single Infestors worth of infested marines deal, assuming full uptime.
Fungal - Rooting storm which deals 36 dmg (47 to armored).
Neural Parasite - No complaints.
I honestly don't care much about Fungal, it's the Infested Marines that really grinds my gears. You basically get almost 10k worth of damage every 200 (?) (starcraft)seconds if you drop them in the right place.
@anttonoo I don't know about you, but from the stats listed above. I'd take Infestors over both Ghosts AND Templars, ANY day. Nvm the fact that they don't do jack shit after they're dry of energy, that's just a minor inconvenience.
@Taiki1234 So you're bringin in personal preferences in an objective discussion about what unit is the best by putting up objective facts? That's your opinion, sure and I obviously don't agree because infestors can't do half the things a ghost can do.
@anttonoo So, I listed objective facts and said my personal preference after that. Can you explain to me wtf's wrong with that? And don't even fucking pretend that this is an objective discussion, you already blew that card with this sentence, assuming you know what "objective" means. "sure and I obviously don't agree because infestors can't do half the things a ghost can do."
Besides, I've listed facts, which is more than I can say for a certain someone else.
@anttonoo You haven't actually said anything constructive...at all, since your first post. If I really have to spell out the Infestors utility for you and explain that they and ghosts fill different roles, then you're pretty much retarded. Which makes me question why I even started this debate with someone so obviously biased.
Anyway I'm giving up, I won't post here again, so don't reply to me.
@Taiki1234 Infestors are really slow compared to ghosts and even if they were spread out, u still would still spend less resources on the ghosts to counter infestors than the zerg is spending to make them. You have a way easier time than protoss dealing with infestors anyways. You're suggesting that Ghosts should still have the energy upgrade too while every other race wouldn't have it?
@jshnaidz245 Pardon me if I'm wrong, but Isn't Ghost movment speed 2.25, which is the same as Infestor on creep (2.25)? The issue as I'm seeing it is that if one Infestor countered one ghost, that would be kinda rediculous? Zerg is for most parts quite cost inefficient, but makes up for it by being able to produce shit at a much higher rate (except that the Infestor isn't cost inefficient at all if used right). Are you following me?
@Taiki1234 So engage off creep? Shouldn't be too hard to get rid of it. Infestors don't counter ghosts, it's the reverse. Zerg for the most part IS cost efficient... that's basic knowledge. Their supply inefficient, and make up for it by being able to produce very fast. The former wouldn't make any sense.. No I'm not following you, you pretty much have everything backwards.
One thing i find annoying however is when playing against terran or toss as zerg you are almost always waiting for them to make a mistake to capitalize, but what I dont understand is how is that balanced to rely on a mistake or slip up the only way to win an engagement. I understand control of the map, dealing eco dmg, and attking from multiple angles are key.... but if the enemy force can choose to engage on his terms (FF for terran leap frogging) how can you
@Assaultpredator What do you mean you have to capitalize on their mistakes? Zerg has the strongest late-game. If you play it safe you should win. Thing about zerg is that it's not that they're a weaker race, it just has stronger consequences if you screw up. It's a harder race to play in my opinion until you get into high diamond/masters league. The game is never going to be completely balanced at every level. Blizzard only balances the pro scene and just tells everyone else to get better.
@Assaultpredator ...What? you never need to attack because you will always be on more bases and outmacroing him. Use infestors to pusish him when he attacks.
The problem with spellcaster vs. spellcaster counters is that they're far too often about luck and split second clicks more than anything else. If the feedback or EMP comes too late, infestors have already burned their Fungals and no longer matter in that fight. This has an even greater impact in TvP, where too many ghosts getting feedbacked before their EMPs can easily win Protoss the game, or vice versa. Technically this could be considered balance, but bad balance.
@antsache What you described is skill. There is no chance involved, whoever micros better gets either the fungal, emp or feedback off. If you're complaining that the result varies too often because it's balanced I don't know what to tell you. Whether you can get emps off before he gets feedback off is SKILL. It doesn't involve chance.
Though balanced, we need to be sure it's not putting too much weight on just a split second of gameplay. These abilities have a place in the game, but they need to be implemented so that fights are determined by more than just the skill with which that one ability is used. Feedback is a direct counter when used well, and I think most people agree that these should be avoided more often than not. A fight that comes down to who hits the I WIN button first isn't all that exciting.
@antsache How else would you determine who wins with between 2 maxed out armies with 200/200 and full upgrades? Starcraft 2 is a macro game, not a micro game. I don't know why you would think that the game revolves around who micros better 'in a split second' when the game is oriented towards macro play. I seriously think you just suck at micro and want it changed. This argument died 2 weeks ago and your arguments are really dumb. I'm not replying anymore.
I think what a lot of people would rather see is more ways to handle casters without getting your own and having fights swayed so heavily by who selects and clicks that one unit first. That's not to say anti-caster abilities shouldn't exist, but there should be other ways to handle enemy casters. If there are other options, a player can make the informed decision as to whether or not he wants to try and play the EMP/fungal/feedback race or not without forfeiting.
FUCK VOID RAYS but yeah they are only overpowered in custom games plus void/collo takes a while to build up alot of those fuckers so if you let the game go on for that long chances are your already fucked plus just get spores wtf you dont need to rush to lair that fucks up your build unless you have a build where you tech reallly early but i doubt that
And yes, the main problem with zerg that makes collo/VR imbalanced is that not only does zerg have practically no versatile units that attack air and ground but even their dedicated anti air is awful. They need a massive dps buff on corruptors or to have them replaced with the scourge.
Zerg used to have the most versatile units...now they have the least. Tier 1 has no air attack, tier 1.5 has no air attack, tier 2 has no air attack, tier 2.5 they get a terribly weak dedicated anti air and a harass unit then tier 3 is back to both having no air attack. It's ridiculous.
@AEgamesFtw that allows for more creative play, and hydras are teir two, and spore crawlers take 6 seconds to burrow... there aren't that many air units in the game... think about it ok there are carriers (useless), BCs (corrupters OWN them), Vikings (ata), Phoenix (ata),with one ability, Ravens (support), banshees, annoying, but spores are easy to get out, AND finally the VR, but queens can deal with that, and dipshit, queens are tier ONE units! So as a zerg player, its FINE
@udienowisay Spawn pool: tier 1 Then you can never go straight to hydras so, Lingspeed/RoachWarren/Baneling Nest: tier 1.5 Lair: tier 2 Hydralisk Den: Tier 2.5 And for brood lord Infestor pit: Tier 3 if you already got a hydra or spire Hive: tier 3.5 Greater spire: Tier 4 Making the corruptors: Tier 4.5 Then the morphing of the corruptors to BL can be considered the actual training of the units, so brood lords are tier 4.5 or 4 at the least
@AEgamesFtw every building you make isnt a tier, so its more like this spawning pool tier one then roach and banes are 1.5 lair tech is a tier right? so it is spire/hydra den/infestor/ tier 2 then its hive tech so greater spire and ultra den... you don't get the tier system
@udienowisay By the way, if you didn't realize, zerg supply depots are air units, so just because vikings and phoenix are AtA doesnt mean anything. And you cant just randomly make a load of queens unless you want to die instantly if they dont go banshee rush.
@rocksparadox Not everyone is in NA bronze like you. In order to get overseers in time for banshees you would need to rush lair before ling speed which puts you at massive risk from early rax pushes. And two queens does NOT stop 2 banshees, especially when your queens are in different bases and the banshees can run between the bases very fast.
@rocksparadox you moron im NA High Diamond. You don't need to do PRO zerg to creep spread, you don't make it out of bronze without creep over here. Fact is 2 queens doesnt beat 2 banshee you fucking braindead retarded cunt.
@AEgamesFtw oh what's your user name ? High Diamond, oh really .RLY?
Infusion on queens, and a sporecrawler against stealth/air are pretty easy to get so howmany banshees are we talking about here ?
I happen to know a few guys who are really in Diamond, and I know you are a bullshit talker, because you don't know the timings and you need more queens than 1 to do creepspread and infusion.
@AEgamesFtw Anyway, you've been schooled.... North America sucks at SC2 anyway, Europe and Korea , oh yeah... and Zerg players, unlike bigmouth trolls like yourself, tend to evolve.... they know how to deal with tech.
Zerg needs to go corruptors vs colossus and void rays and focus colossus! not void rays... and then go pure Hydras that can clean void rays easy and ground... but u must kill all colossus with corruptors
Corruptors cost far less and they kill void rays in a 1v1 fight. Zerg just need to scout to scout to make sure thru make proper amounts of corrupters. They say the toss scouts the Zerg and switches out of vr/c, but they say nothing about Zerg scouting the toss. equal scouting = balance
@Lambofgod2316 I don't understand the issue here... corrupters are cheap and hard counter both collosi and void rays. They cost only 2/3 of a void ray AND beat the void ray easily in a 1v1 fight. I do the VR/C build enough and have been counted plenty of times. The key is just not to engage with your Roach/Hy while your corrupters dominate his VR/C, then clean up his ground troops when there isn't Collossi support. Really quite simple. Most toss don't do VR/C cause it's too easy to counter.
@quadron117 Void/colosi is too easy to counter? its called the deathball and it destroys most zerg players, you say roach/hydra/corruptor > VR/C but it can go either way, VR/C > roach/hydra/corruptor but regardless you can't say which one counters which one
@ohAlanho thats true in most cases it comes down to micro and correct focus firing with those unit compositions - and whether or not Zerg has been spreading the creep tumors. In this case as Zerg you want your corruptors focusing the Col down wriggling back if the void rays chase which may let your hydras snipe them. If it then develops into a big battle you still want hydras on the voids corruptors on the Col and roaches on the laser beams
@quadron117 theres no such thing as equal scouting because zerg and toss have different units if u want equal scouting then make obs not cloaked and as slow as an overload an upgrade at the robo support bay for speed so go ahead and qq more and the only reason corrupters beat v rays is because in a 1v1 vrays dont get charged
@CakeySoupy no i just said that theres no such thing as equal scouting i just thought of somtin off the top of my head that would be equal scouting but did not go into depth :P scouting cant be equal cause different races have different units
@KnightOfAmarCostume If you think they are whiny, why watch in the first place? Another thing, is the game made perfect and balanced always? Plz man, before you talk shit, learn something about reality.
@LordGilgamesh01 1)"why watch?" - I wanna listen to an idea before saying something about it. 2)"is the game made perfect and balanced always?" - If u let toss get death balls and let him take map control don't blame toss to be imbalanced. Every race has is own style and his type of moves on the map. U've to use the better abilities of your race to mantain the control of the game and refine the weakest point of your gameplay.
@KnightOfAmarCostume Dude. Fuck you. Don't tell me to "get a life". Please. You said shit too dumb ass. You are freaking chump. Wow, I don't know how to say this in a nice way. You are stupid as fuck.
yeah nerf toss even more tards... what should we do? If i dont go for collosi zerg stomp me with hydras, if i dont know for rays coruptors stomp down my colossi so stfu
@dailyminecrafter stop relying on the collosi so much, abuse the mobility of hydras with blink stalkers, keep the zerg pinned down, out macro him, hydras being so slow, attack run away the roaches will pull from the hydras being faster, kill roaches without hydra support, go hts or collosi late game when the zerg is trying to counter ur blink stalkers, if he pushes to ur main base counter him, keep him on 2 base. try using strategy in an rts. -from a masters protoss
@suberkin Oh yeah, it aint like Colossus destroy anything on the ground with 9 range compared to a fragile caster unit that cost 150 gas and got time to maybe fungal twice the army before your roaches are destroyed & your infestors die too, Colo Void is still a major problem, just watch CrunCher play...
@HeavyStunk1942 I'm sure you're straight. And void rays don't do x2 dmg to massive, they've always done +dmg to massive, just looked it up. No such thing as a x2 patch.
Mass infestors will stomp that build no question... Just fungal the center of the ball 20 times. You can fungal the entire army one shot at a time and not let it advance or retreat. They buffed FG specifically for PvZ against the death ball and no one uses it still...
Mass infestors will stomp that build no question... Just fungal the center of the ball 20 times. You can fungal the entire army one shot at a time and not let it advance or retreat.
after seeing the replay i really understand voidray/colossi deathball... its not the colossi that is the strengh in the combo.. its the mass voidray combined with max of 3 colossi.... + zeolots with all the overmins u will have
Repost time! So basically this was what I posted when the episodes were fresh. Now! Now!, can you see what I was talking about? I hope... After All Artosis himself says in the 4th set between MVP and San on April 4th 2011 GSL that the matchup will change quickly as people are learning new styles.
After playing and following the pro scene for other RTS's for over 7 years I have to tell you guys that you both sound pretty silly. Pro scenes change quickly as players 1up each other with new strategies and combinations at a pace that gets progressively faster the longer people play. .
Keep in mind what is just unbeatable for 1 player is easy 4 another. I have watched much pro RTS games in my day and the Pro scene in SC2 right now is probably like 8% of hitting the cieling. 8%!.
Just because something is new doesnt mean its imba, people thought 4 gate was imba during the early stages of starcraft but people adapt and figure out how to beat it, during time people will figure out how to stop this build as well.
when will people realize how hard it is to balance sc2. a lot of us think that BW was balanced.. i'll give you the BIGGEST example of imba maybe slightly OP of ZvT. it was the dark swarm. Terran has splash from siege tanks, and firebats for melee attacks.. after that. good luck. in a lot of boxer games, 1 dark swarm pushes the rines and the seiges tanks to unsiege and fall back... so no, BW wansn't balanced, so stop expecting this to be perfect
You could neural a couple vrs to kill colossus very quickly. also vrs counter corrupters and super hard counter brood lords so in my opinion mutas are the best choice as you just target fire vrs first of all to kill AA and 2nd of all to prevent them from charging.
It's ironic and sad that this video came out over a month before IdrA being taken down by the no-talent hack job newbie Cruncher in TSL by the very strategy listed here. IdrA, I still love your play! Hang in there. Blizzard should nerf FF and Protoss death ball, oh, within a few years or so. It's obvious to real fans that you were the superior player and Cruncher is a laughable excuse for a player.
I find it interesting they do not discuss mass mutas. Mutas are cost effective against void rays and become stronger in numbers. Once the voidrays are gone, everything else goes.
Void Collos might be strong but it takes a lot of recourses to get out. I mean you need atleast 2 bases to get voids and collos out at the same time with a small support army. If you can harras toss in the early game and stall his macro a bit you will fuck up getting those collo/rays out. Yeah once they are out they are strong but its pretty hard to get them out.
philateliceun 3 weeks ago
"GO GHOST"
(Danny Phantom)
Hulavuta 3 weeks ago
ZvP does favor the protoss player, since all that Z has is pretty much roach/curroptor and the fact that protoss only need to be on 2 base to get up and decent deathball so it dosn`t matter how much harrasment you do or how much map controll you have since you wont be able to kill that deathball no matter how many waves of units you make, you won win...
1337Wunderbaum 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Why paying 25 bucks monthly to GomTv when you can see it all free at quitgn dot info
StrubRountree322 1 month ago
I'm guessing that Artosis and Idra stopped bothering to make another video and/or is too busy.
justplaino 4 months ago
is mass muta not a viable option?? I find that mass muta wins against equal size balls of stalkers. they would be forced to make templars for storm or archons which is gas heavy and they cant do that with colo and void rays..
Sequence75 4 months ago
@Sequence75 Haha, i just read this 2 mounths after your post and i must say you were ahead of your time. look how comman mass muta is in pvz now.
HerosEnd 1 month ago
protoss don't need void rays to be Op... stalker/colo is already Op...
JuglarEuskaldun 5 months ago
@JuglarEuskaldun Marine/Marauder/vikings?
AssFragger 1 month ago
comon i saw 3 episodes before commenting all you do guys is wah nerf protoss waaah nurf terran a lil bit we zergs are so helpless... comon guys man up and find strategies for countering colossi i mean mercy zerg max out like 5 mins before toss use it! really!
deathjames21 5 months ago
This series pretty much is. Nerf Protoss and terran, Buff zerg kthx
luckycandy101 5 months ago
thank god they stopped doing these
VickTheQuick 6 months ago
infestors get butt fucked before they fungal, and high templars aso raep infestors.
JeRRiiEz 6 months ago
This was outdated the day it was posted on Youtube. The old fungal raped deathballs too. Hell, nowadays zergs are raping the deathball without using fungal at all.
PhlegmMaster 6 months ago
I'm no Idra, but I really don't think infesters are overpowered, I think the problem people have is that they aren’t too bad against anything. You ever tried to chain fungal void rays though... it takes forever, and infesters are pretty big and easy to focus fire... If there has to be a nurf, I'd place it on the time it takes to get them out, not the unit itself, there a much easier option then holding till spire at the moment, making them easily favourable.
luciferdern 6 months ago
0.01
johncitizen2000 6 months ago
Old news...now infestor rape everything. Basically we went from Protoss Death ball to Infestor Death Unit!
mozzaneek 6 months ago
@mozzaneek nice copy paste bro
TheVoices297 6 months ago
@mozzaneek Infesters are balanced. It's a play style issue on behalf of most terran and protoss' that make infestors so good. High templars can 1 shot infesters with feedback and 2-3 ghosts can counter 12 infestors. People just need to learn how to deal and react to zerg rather than just depending on the zerg to play completely reactionary.
jshnaidz245 6 months ago 13
@jshnaidz245 Exactly, on an episode of state of the game artosis and Idra were saying that they were going to start doing this show again but would actually not have an episode on infestors. Not only do ghosts/templar kill off energy units, but they have a dual role against the rest of zerg's army with their other spells. Artosis even mentioned that ghosts might be too strong against zerg lategame because they emp infestors and snipe the tier 3 units.
goldsociety 6 months ago
@jshnaidz245 Give me a break, Ghosts pretty much only "counters" Infestors because SC2 players these days are so fond of binding every single Infestor to 1 hotkey and not bringing Overseers.
A suitable nerf would be removing the energy upgrade, this way all the caster "classes" are equal.
Taiki1234 6 months ago
@Taiki1234 So snipe/emp doesn't counter infestor? Yes it does are you retarded. Infestors are only useful with energy and one EMP is equal to one fungal in energy. Though when a ghost has used his snipes or emps on the infestors the ghost can still do a fair amount of DPS with auto attacks.
anttonoo 6 months ago
@anttonoo Do you know why Templars and Infestors doesn't do shit after they're out of energy? It's because they fawking kill shit with their AoE abilities, unlike ghosts. Also, every second spent EMP'ing is a second not spent micro'ing marines and if the marines dies, everything dies.
Taiki1234 6 months ago
@Taiki1234 if you suck so much that you can't click a hotkey with ghosts spam click E then click a hotkey with marines and hit t and run then you just suck and should honestly not talk about balance ever. ghosts can do everything they want cloaked and also have a 100/100 way to move an entire army to get into a better position. i can't remember the last time i fungaled a group of marines burrowed but i do remember the last time my broodlords get sniped and my infestors get EMPd
chickenlittle3724 6 months ago
@chickenlittle3724 I don't EMP because I don't play Terran? Makes sense? And you should do you carefull consideration before you say that someone suck when you can't Fungal properly. Also, you're for real? You let your Broods get sniped by Ghosts?
Taiki1234 6 months ago
@Taiki1234 before i can even see the ghost.don't even try to say that "oh you need overseers" because last time i checked you should be able to EASILY snipe overseers before anything can happen...
chickenlittle3724 6 months ago
@Taiki1234 Yeah because it's so hard to drop four emps? It's like saying every second a zerg is using infestors they arn't stutterstepping or focus firing with roaches. You can still do it will mulitask, fungal and emp take like two seconds to cast. Though you need to recast fungal while you only need to throw some emp's out once.
anttonoo 6 months ago
@Taiki1234 Oh and you only adressed my later point on the versatility of the Ghost and not the balance of the infestor. Meaning that you probably havn't got a response to what I said.
anttonoo 6 months ago
@anttonoo Oh so you want me to address the balance of Infestors?
264*8 = 2112 total worth of damage. That is what one single Infestors worth of infested marines deal, assuming full uptime.
Fungal - Rooting storm which deals 36 dmg (47 to armored).
Neural Parasite - No complaints.
I honestly don't care much about Fungal, it's the Infested Marines that really grinds my gears. You basically get almost 10k worth of damage every 200 (?) (starcraft)seconds if you drop them in the right place.
Taiki1234 6 months ago
@anttonoo I don't know about you, but from the stats listed above. I'd take Infestors over both Ghosts AND Templars, ANY day. Nvm the fact that they don't do jack shit after they're dry of energy, that's just a minor inconvenience.
Taiki1234 6 months ago
@Taiki1234 So you're bringin in personal preferences in an objective discussion about what unit is the best by putting up objective facts? That's your opinion, sure and I obviously don't agree because infestors can't do half the things a ghost can do.
anttonoo 6 months ago
@anttonoo So, I listed objective facts and said my personal preference after that. Can you explain to me wtf's wrong with that? And don't even fucking pretend that this is an objective discussion, you already blew that card with this sentence, assuming you know what "objective" means. "sure and I obviously don't agree because infestors can't do half the things a ghost can do."
Besides, I've listed facts, which is more than I can say for a certain someone else.
Taiki1234 5 months ago
@Taiki1234 You havn't said what they can do more than a ghost. Thats the thing.
anttonoo 5 months ago
@anttonoo You haven't actually said anything constructive...at all, since your first post. If I really have to spell out the Infestors utility for you and explain that they and ghosts fill different roles, then you're pretty much retarded. Which makes me question why I even started this debate with someone so obviously biased.
Anyway I'm giving up, I won't post here again, so don't reply to me.
Taiki1234 5 months ago
@Taiki1234 Infestors are really slow compared to ghosts and even if they were spread out, u still would still spend less resources on the ghosts to counter infestors than the zerg is spending to make them. You have a way easier time than protoss dealing with infestors anyways. You're suggesting that Ghosts should still have the energy upgrade too while every other race wouldn't have it?
jshnaidz245 5 months ago
@jshnaidz245 Pardon me if I'm wrong, but Isn't Ghost movment speed 2.25, which is the same as Infestor on creep (2.25)? The issue as I'm seeing it is that if one Infestor countered one ghost, that would be kinda rediculous? Zerg is for most parts quite cost inefficient, but makes up for it by being able to produce shit at a much higher rate (except that the Infestor isn't cost inefficient at all if used right). Are you following me?
And none should have the upgrade imho.
Taiki1234 5 months ago
@Taiki1234 So engage off creep? Shouldn't be too hard to get rid of it. Infestors don't counter ghosts, it's the reverse. Zerg for the most part IS cost efficient... that's basic knowledge. Their supply inefficient, and make up for it by being able to produce very fast. The former wouldn't make any sense.. No I'm not following you, you pretty much have everything backwards.
jshnaidz245 5 months ago
@jshnaidz245
I agree.
One thing i find annoying however is when playing against terran or toss as zerg you are almost always waiting for them to make a mistake to capitalize, but what I dont understand is how is that balanced to rely on a mistake or slip up the only way to win an engagement. I understand control of the map, dealing eco dmg, and attking from multiple angles are key.... but if the enemy force can choose to engage on his terms (FF for terran leap frogging) how can you
Assaultpredator 5 months ago
@Assaultpredator What do you mean you have to capitalize on their mistakes? Zerg has the strongest late-game. If you play it safe you should win. Thing about zerg is that it's not that they're a weaker race, it just has stronger consequences if you screw up. It's a harder race to play in my opinion until you get into high diamond/masters league. The game is never going to be completely balanced at every level. Blizzard only balances the pro scene and just tells everyone else to get better.
jshnaidz245 5 months ago
@jshnaidz245
Close... but not quite.
Zerg late game is quite strong if you have map control and are the one ATTACKING.
A good terran will not give you the chance to remax your army... and we all know that 200 / 200 zerg is shit.
Assaultpredator 5 months ago
@Assaultpredator ...What? you never need to attack because you will always be on more bases and outmacroing him. Use infestors to pusish him when he attacks.
jshnaidz245 5 months ago
@jshnaidz245
The problem with spellcaster vs. spellcaster counters is that they're far too often about luck and split second clicks more than anything else. If the feedback or EMP comes too late, infestors have already burned their Fungals and no longer matter in that fight. This has an even greater impact in TvP, where too many ghosts getting feedbacked before their EMPs can easily win Protoss the game, or vice versa. Technically this could be considered balance, but bad balance.
antsache 5 months ago
@antsache What you described is skill. There is no chance involved, whoever micros better gets either the fungal, emp or feedback off. If you're complaining that the result varies too often because it's balanced I don't know what to tell you. Whether you can get emps off before he gets feedback off is SKILL. It doesn't involve chance.
jshnaidz245 5 months ago
@jshnaidz245
Though balanced, we need to be sure it's not putting too much weight on just a split second of gameplay. These abilities have a place in the game, but they need to be implemented so that fights are determined by more than just the skill with which that one ability is used. Feedback is a direct counter when used well, and I think most people agree that these should be avoided more often than not. A fight that comes down to who hits the I WIN button first isn't all that exciting.
antsache 5 months ago
@antsache How else would you determine who wins with between 2 maxed out armies with 200/200 and full upgrades? Starcraft 2 is a macro game, not a micro game. I don't know why you would think that the game revolves around who micros better 'in a split second' when the game is oriented towards macro play. I seriously think you just suck at micro and want it changed. This argument died 2 weeks ago and your arguments are really dumb. I'm not replying anymore.
jshnaidz245 5 months ago
@jshnaidz245
(continued)
I think what a lot of people would rather see is more ways to handle casters without getting your own and having fights swayed so heavily by who selects and clicks that one unit first. That's not to say anti-caster abilities shouldn't exist, but there should be other ways to handle enemy casters. If there are other options, a player can make the informed decision as to whether or not he wants to try and play the EMP/fungal/feedback race or not without forfeiting.
antsache 5 months ago
@antsache Are you trolling? You're complaining that you have to micro. Play a different game. Go play chess.
jshnaidz245 5 months ago
the infestor buff scared idra away :o
killtheorc0 6 months ago
I demand more stuffs!
killtheorc0 6 months ago
@SC2Tonberry its spelt zealot
B4n5h33Chess 6 months ago
I wonder why they discontinued this series.
It got so many views, people loved it. Meh.. :I
Hankatu 7 months ago
@Hankatu Idra moved back to USA
TaeradunStarcraft 6 months ago
@TaeradunStarcraft That's true. They could still continue doing this online however.
Hankatu 6 months ago
@Hankatu They are saying they may start it back up now that IdrA is going back to Korea.
PwngeTrooper 6 months ago
MOAR
TeshnosFire 7 months ago
Idra should blame his race, it's only on top of the food chain atm
Slamdoxical 7 months ago
FUCK VOID RAYS but yeah they are only overpowered in custom games plus void/collo takes a while to build up alot of those fuckers so if you let the game go on for that long chances are your already fucked plus just get spores wtf you dont need to rush to lair that fucks up your build unless you have a build where you tech reallly early but i doubt that
blaekman 7 months ago
And yes, the main problem with zerg that makes collo/VR imbalanced is that not only does zerg have practically no versatile units that attack air and ground but even their dedicated anti air is awful. They need a massive dps buff on corruptors or to have them replaced with the scourge.
AEgamesFtw 7 months ago
2:47
Lol
"You just throw armies at it and then everything is... dead"
AEgamesFtw 7 months ago
let Idra speak more
VENOM304 7 months ago 28
Bring back the Scourge for VOIDS. BANELINGS WITH WINGS!!!
Fuck you Protoss!
DeathsHand88 7 months ago
@DeathsHand88 scourge is so important cos right now zergs massive hole is in anti air.
AEgamesFtw 7 months ago
void/collos is fucking hard
didy7178 7 months ago
in silver and gold league people dont know how to micro and it is very difficult to deal againstcolossus force field espacially with zerg
etwisabeta 7 months ago
Zerg used to have the most versatile units...now they have the least. Tier 1 has no air attack, tier 1.5 has no air attack, tier 2 has no air attack, tier 2.5 they get a terribly weak dedicated anti air and a harass unit then tier 3 is back to both having no air attack. It's ridiculous.
AEgamesFtw 8 months ago
@AEgamesFtw that allows for more creative play, and hydras are teir two, and spore crawlers take 6 seconds to burrow... there aren't that many air units in the game... think about it ok there are carriers (useless), BCs (corrupters OWN them), Vikings (ata), Phoenix (ata),with one ability, Ravens (support), banshees, annoying, but spores are easy to get out, AND finally the VR, but queens can deal with that, and dipshit, queens are tier ONE units! So as a zerg player, its FINE
udienowisay 7 months ago
AEgamesFtw 7 months ago
@AEgamesFtw every building you make isnt a tier, so its more like this spawning pool tier one then roach and banes are 1.5 lair tech is a tier right? so it is spire/hydra den/infestor/ tier 2 then its hive tech so greater spire and ultra den... you don't get the tier system
udienowisay 7 months ago
@udienowisay No...you cant build lair tech without first building a lair or there is two buildings you need of lair tech, a .5 each.
AEgamesFtw 7 months ago
@udienowisay By the way, if you didn't realize, zerg supply depots are air units, so just because vikings and phoenix are AtA doesnt mean anything. And you cant just randomly make a load of queens unless you want to die instantly if they dont go banshee rush.
AEgamesFtw 7 months ago
@AEgamesFtw You just need two queens, two ... to defend against banshees, by the time he gets them you can easily have overseers and aa.
rocksparadox 7 months ago
@rocksparadox Not everyone is in NA bronze like you. In order to get overseers in time for banshees you would need to rush lair before ling speed which puts you at massive risk from early rax pushes. And two queens does NOT stop 2 banshees, especially when your queens are in different bases and the banshees can run between the bases very fast.
AEgamesFtw 7 months ago
@AEgamesFtw hahah mongoloid, you don't even play the game probably ...
and I started gold ...you sucker.
Two queens is nothing weird in bases because PRO zerg...does creep spread...
Keep playing runescape, you talentless limey wanker,
now STFU you loser noob.
rocksparadox 7 months ago
@rocksparadox you moron im NA High Diamond. You don't need to do PRO zerg to creep spread, you don't make it out of bronze without creep over here. Fact is 2 queens doesnt beat 2 banshee you fucking braindead retarded cunt.
AEgamesFtw 7 months ago
@AEgamesFtw oh what's your user name ? High Diamond, oh really .RLY?
Infusion on queens, and a sporecrawler against stealth/air are pretty easy to get so howmany banshees are we talking about here ?
I happen to know a few guys who are really in Diamond, and I know you are a bullshit talker, because you don't know the timings and you need more queens than 1 to do creepspread and infusion.
Keep contradicting yourself, bigmouth failfag newbface ...
hahahaha
rocksparadox 7 months ago
@AEgamesFtw Anyway, you've been schooled.... North America sucks at SC2 anyway, Europe and Korea , oh yeah... and Zerg players, unlike bigmouth trolls like yourself, tend to evolve.... they know how to deal with tech.
rocksparadox 7 months ago
@rocksparadox I'm NA high diamond EURO high gold. If i couldn't deal with shit I wouldn't be in gold.
AEgamesFtw 7 months ago
@udienowisay I forgot the spire you need before the greater spire. BL are tier 5.
AEgamesFtw 7 months ago
Why aren't there any more episodes?
GotenSSJ1 8 months ago
Try mutalisks? Mutas are still fairly good against void rays
lilchinboi 8 months ago
@lilchinboi when there'e voidrays, they can easily be phoenixes
ohAlanho 8 months ago
Zerg needs to go corruptors vs colossus and void rays and focus colossus! not void rays... and then go pure Hydras that can clean void rays easy and ground... but u must kill all colossus with corruptors
GdjeBoli 8 months ago
Anyone else who got the 3 minute ad of Assassins creed revelations? It's one of the best game trailers ever lol
K4inan 8 months ago
Idra isn't korean???? O.O ................
banish199125 8 months ago
Hey guys! Love your show. When is the next episode coming out?
codonbyte 8 months ago
They should make a new IMBALANCED about the new fungal thing
MrDerekftw 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
yes play terrain that is so easy.
BUT ARTOSIS WE WANT MORE!
Say something about the recent patch please!
kampkrieger 9 months ago
Comment removed
kampkrieger 9 months ago
Corruptors cost far less and they kill void rays in a 1v1 fight. Zerg just need to scout to scout to make sure thru make proper amounts of corrupters. They say the toss scouts the Zerg and switches out of vr/c, but they say nothing about Zerg scouting the toss. equal scouting = balance
quadron117 9 months ago
@quadron117 its not equal scouting you stubborn protoss faggot.
why cant toss admit they are OP when they are?? Overlord scouting is almost useless.
Lambofgod2316 9 months ago
@Lambofgod2316 I don't understand the issue here... corrupters are cheap and hard counter both collosi and void rays. They cost only 2/3 of a void ray AND beat the void ray easily in a 1v1 fight. I do the VR/C build enough and have been counted plenty of times. The key is just not to engage with your Roach/Hy while your corrupters dominate his VR/C, then clean up his ground troops when there isn't Collossi support. Really quite simple. Most toss don't do VR/C cause it's too easy to counter.
quadron117 9 months ago
@quadron117 Void/colosi is too easy to counter? its called the deathball and it destroys most zerg players, you say roach/hydra/corruptor > VR/C but it can go either way, VR/C > roach/hydra/corruptor but regardless you can't say which one counters which one
ohAlanho 9 months ago
@ohAlanho thats true in most cases it comes down to micro and correct focus firing with those unit compositions - and whether or not Zerg has been spreading the creep tumors. In this case as Zerg you want your corruptors focusing the Col down wriggling back if the void rays chase which may let your hydras snipe them. If it then develops into a big battle you still want hydras on the voids corruptors on the Col and roaches on the laser beams
CakeySoupy 8 months ago
@Lambofgod2316 no need to insult people here. if playing zerg frustrates you, try another race.
cent4urus 9 months ago
@Lambofgod2316 lol shut up
TheBrunaland 9 months ago
@TheBrunaland lololol
Lambofgod2316 8 months ago
@quadron117 theres no such thing as equal scouting because zerg and toss have different units if u want equal scouting then make obs not cloaked and as slow as an overload an upgrade at the robo support bay for speed so go ahead and qq more and the only reason corrupters beat v rays is because in a 1v1 vrays dont get charged
TheInfectous 9 months ago
@TheInfectous then is the overlord also going to take 3 tech buildings to unlock and cost 100 gas? because then zerg players are sooo screwed
CakeySoupy 8 months ago
@CakeySoupy no i just said that theres no such thing as equal scouting i just thought of somtin off the top of my head that would be equal scouting but did not go into depth :P scouting cant be equal cause different races have different units
TheInfectous 8 months ago
whatever happened to this series? lol
nka203 9 months ago
I have new found respect for idra
EatpieUTUBE 10 months ago
Idra remind anyone else of emo spiderman in spiderman 3?
Lasueas 10 months ago
@Lasueas venom?
Bigdaddymage 9 months ago
so whining dudes...so fuckin whining
KnightOfAmarCostume 10 months ago
@KnightOfAmarCostume If you think they are whiny, why watch in the first place? Another thing, is the game made perfect and balanced always? Plz man, before you talk shit, learn something about reality.
LordGilgamesh01 10 months ago
@LordGilgamesh01 1)"why watch?" - I wanna listen to an idea before saying something about it. 2)"is the game made perfect and balanced always?" - If u let toss get death balls and let him take map control don't blame toss to be imbalanced. Every race has is own style and his type of moves on the map. U've to use the better abilities of your race to mantain the control of the game and refine the weakest point of your gameplay.
3) get a life
KnightOfAmarCostume 10 months ago
@KnightOfAmarCostume Dude. Fuck you. Don't tell me to "get a life". Please. You said shit too dumb ass. You are freaking chump. Wow, I don't know how to say this in a nice way. You are stupid as fuck.
LordGilgamesh01 10 months ago
Why did they stop making these videos?
Penguinlordb 10 months ago
@Penguinlordb they didnt exactly. There is an ocean between them xD
terranark 9 months ago
You'd have thought that Artosis would have begun pronouncing Idra correctly by now
TheEponet 10 months ago
yeah nerf toss even more tards... what should we do? If i dont go for collosi zerg stomp me with hydras, if i dont know for rays coruptors stomp down my colossi so stfu
dailyminecrafter 10 months ago
@dailyminecrafter stop relying on the collosi so much, abuse the mobility of hydras with blink stalkers, keep the zerg pinned down, out macro him, hydras being so slow, attack run away the roaches will pull from the hydras being faster, kill roaches without hydra support, go hts or collosi late game when the zerg is trying to counter ur blink stalkers, if he pushes to ur main base counter him, keep him on 2 base. try using strategy in an rts. -from a masters protoss
Vergos001 10 months ago
It's cool to see a pro giving advice. It's really nice of idrA to humor such n00b questions like ghosts early game.
Is stronger early game balanced by weaker late game? Obviously not. You have to survive the early game to reach the late game.
11:35 WTF is artosis talking about? Stalkers have anti-air. They're much more versatile massed than straight marauders. The terran equivalent is
marines.
For a collosi/warp army, what about fungal growth's armor damage?
Kogerii 10 months ago
@Kogerii the fungal buff wasnt out back when this was made..voidray colos is no longer that great because of fungals
suberkin 10 months ago
@suberkin Oh yeah, it aint like Colossus destroy anything on the ground with 9 range compared to a fragile caster unit that cost 150 gas and got time to maybe fungal twice the army before your roaches are destroyed & your infestors die too, Colo Void is still a major problem, just watch CrunCher play...
Maho2109 10 months ago
@Maho2109 ????
suberkin 10 months ago
Make colossus void slower and problem solved
victojua1213 10 months ago
It could be like that gay 2 base carrier build in sc1?
That thing was abusive as hell for a long time until flash came along.
Zzzzzzeer 10 months ago
Btw everyone, this is outdated. New fungal rapes deathballs now
liewecz 10 months ago 26
@liewecz theyre still qqing about it
Allenzo04 10 months ago
@liewecz It does. I'm gonna have to watch out then.
LordGilgamesh01 10 months ago
@liewecz No it doesn't.
leljala 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@liewecz
no it does not
smoKing4freedom 9 months ago
@enderock13
Yes, because the damage was more important than the 4s extra root, especially against Protoss.
N0oDLX 10 months ago
Great show! Keep it going! :)
N0oDLX 10 months ago
Couldn't Fungal Growth help to counter this?
zosma2010 10 months ago
@zosma2010 Ignore my post.
zosma2010 10 months ago
... well I think this discussion here is ok. (i'm a toss)
But do you think the recent remove off the khyadin amulett will encourage player to go for high templar instead of collosus? I don't.
Thats why i support the idea of stopping to nerf and buff units instead.
It's rediculous how they remove one toss-upgrade after the other ...
MXopti 10 months ago
my name is idra, i have a problem with rage ;_;
ROEDERBABY 10 months ago
pretty sure void rays do x2 dmg vs massive units, gg ultra strat.
alvarisle 10 months ago
@alvarisle was before patch 1.3 you faggot
HeavyStunk1942 10 months ago
@HeavyStunk1942 cuz void rays got their dmg nerfed right?
alvarisle 10 months ago
@alvarisle it actually got buffed dumbass
jamquackers 10 months ago
@alvarisle you idiot the x2 vs massive was after 1.3 theyre talking pre 1.3 ffs youre a fag
HeavyStunk1942 10 months ago
@HeavyStunk1942 I'm sure you're straight. And void rays don't do x2 dmg to massive, they've always done +dmg to massive, just looked it up. No such thing as a x2 patch.
alvarisle 10 months ago
@alvarisle oh god they didnt wth fucking non masters scrub bitching around add me and we bull it out CENTRY 606
HeavyStunk1942 10 months ago
@HeavyStunk1942 you're just angry lol, can't even make sense anymore, just mashing bad words together. gg already.
alvarisle 10 months ago
Where did u get that hoodie? It's awesome!
ReverseDamage 10 months ago
where do i find this squirrel vs mvp game?
dustdust7 10 months ago
did you see 'poor idra'?
Saqua19 10 months ago
u mad?
stingyzx 10 months ago
even time he says "mech" I smell pickles o-o happen anybody else?
AznLoserWin 10 months ago
Mass infestors will stomp that build no question... Just fungal the center of the ball 20 times. You can fungal the entire army one shot at a time and not let it advance or retreat. They buffed FG specifically for PvZ against the death ball and no one uses it still...
cantgetgot 10 months ago
@cantgetgot Fungal Growth 20 times ? Are you kidding me. Thats absurd and you know it.
Adamazeroni 10 months ago
Mass infestors will stomp that build no question... Just fungal the center of the ball 20 times. You can fungal the entire army one shot at a time and not let it advance or retreat.
cantgetgot 10 months ago
after seeing the replay i really understand voidray/colossi deathball... its not the colossi that is the strengh in the combo.. its the mass voidray combined with max of 3 colossi.... + zeolots with all the overmins u will have
fall0rn 10 months ago
Comment removed
paweldziedziul 10 months ago
Repost time! So basically this was what I posted when the episodes were fresh. Now! Now!, can you see what I was talking about? I hope... After All Artosis himself says in the 4th set between MVP and San on April 4th 2011 GSL that the matchup will change quickly as people are learning new styles.
**takes a bow
Yes Yes, thank you for the applause.
xxSpiritFriendxx 10 months ago
After playing and following the pro scene for other RTS's for over 7 years I have to tell you guys that you both sound pretty silly. Pro scenes change quickly as players 1up each other with new strategies and combinations at a pace that gets progressively faster the longer people play. .
Keep in mind what is just unbeatable for 1 player is easy 4 another. I have watched much pro RTS games in my day and the Pro scene in SC2 right now is probably like 8% of hitting the cieling. 8%!.
xxSpiritFriendxx 10 months ago
i want a vial of these zerg tears
RataFucker 10 months ago
You guys should talk about banelings next time, talk about July zerg's plays and perhaps even cite Morrow vs Jinro in the TSL
Fablezzz 10 months ago
Just because something is new doesnt mean its imba, people thought 4 gate was imba during the early stages of starcraft but people adapt and figure out how to beat it, during time people will figure out how to stop this build as well.
Robo120130 10 months ago
when will people realize how hard it is to balance sc2. a lot of us think that BW was balanced.. i'll give you the BIGGEST example of imba maybe slightly OP of ZvT. it was the dark swarm. Terran has splash from siege tanks, and firebats for melee attacks.. after that. good luck. in a lot of boxer games, 1 dark swarm pushes the rines and the seiges tanks to unsiege and fall back... so no, BW wansn't balanced, so stop expecting this to be perfect
Qwerty48121 10 months ago
mutas are HORRIBLE fighters i hope u guys know that
Qwerty48121 10 months ago
You could neural a couple vrs to kill colossus very quickly. also vrs counter corrupters and super hard counter brood lords so in my opinion mutas are the best choice as you just target fire vrs first of all to kill AA and 2nd of all to prevent them from charging.
oldy559 11 months ago
MOAR PL0X?
MandrewSandwich 11 months ago
"I like Idra, he knows how to hate. I can respect that."
FeastyBeasty 11 months ago 37
no more imbalanced?
bood3e 11 months ago
are u gonna do some more of these alone artosis?
Protoss1389 11 months ago
@Protoss1389 he should get tasteless in there :)
RobFight 11 months ago
I watched a match on the tsl zvp
the protoss was Zeerax, he did a poorly executed imho void/colo
the zerg just overwhelmed him with roaches
KoRNeRd 11 months ago
Comment removed
KoRNeRd 11 months ago
It's ironic and sad that this video came out over a month before IdrA being taken down by the no-talent hack job newbie Cruncher in TSL by the very strategy listed here. IdrA, I still love your play! Hang in there. Blizzard should nerf FF and Protoss death ball, oh, within a few years or so. It's obvious to real fans that you were the superior player and Cruncher is a laughable excuse for a player.
aaronthebaron80 11 months ago
The way he says Zealot makes me cringe.
Cruz7906 11 months ago
is this series dead now that idra is back in usa
246trinitrotoluene 11 months ago
What about mutas? They're good against void rays
iimeanyii 11 months ago
@iimeanyii its about the combination in the protoss army not a single unit like at other races: mutas marauders
Alexon88 11 months ago
I find it interesting they do not discuss mass mutas. Mutas are cost effective against void rays and become stronger in numbers. Once the voidrays are gone, everything else goes.
ViciousZeroEnder 11 months ago
@ViciousZeroEnder stalkers hard counter mutas
Pisces3124 11 months ago