Mike Church's Rant Against Socialist SCHIP and Democrats

[MMZen]

Fuck this worthless piece of shit, I'd like to see him survive one day on the steets, if you want to bitch out welfare queens you should bitch about the fucking corporate welfare whores who are about a thousand times as worse...I'd rather see 100 welfare cheats than 1 white collar scumfuck piece of shit. The rightwing is destroying the country

[Narukosaki]

America has lost touch with it's responsibility. People should be responsible for themselves and not some entity called government. The proof is in the pudding. Welfare has dragged America from the Can do country to the I'm entitled country. The weakness withing is destroying us.

[madtrade]

you guys cry for a stupid health insurance.

but no one open his mouth appart from ron paul. when you provided trillions to banks and let the FED killing you with interest over the debt. so seriously you guys are the BIGGEST SOCIALIST COUNTRY EVER by the numbers yes you are !! but instead to pay for health care you bought a 'golden insurance' to just a few Mr Bankster. not even talking about the cost of war. you guys invented the socialism for the richs! deal with it dude

[MrChuck65pa]

Spot On! If you've got money for a computer, internet, cell phone, cable, and a television set...then you've got money to buyI your own damned health care! Period.

I didn't father your children, and therefore I have no responsibility to provide for them. Take responsibility for your own actions,get off your ass, and find sustainable employment.

I'm done feeling sorry for you, so go feel sorry for yourself...and leave my wallet alone. it's MY cash you're after..and you can't have it.

[MsEdd1e]

loud mouth half witted no hearted moron,go ride a horse,yeeha.

[robaquarian]

hillary doesnt support health care she supports the insurance companies. you keep fostering this fake right left paradigm like the democrats and republicans are that different. you guy dont mind speninding billions making corporations and contractors rich in teh middle east on illegal wars but you dont want health care for people back home. the insurance companies have destroyed our health system. obama care makes them even richer and gives them more power,

this guy is a moron making a straw man

[shsband1]

No, I just don't want to debate. I never wanted to debate. I only wanted to post my opinion. You are the one who began posing arguments and I'm not going to continue to debate when it's going nowhere. I'm obviously not going to change your mind, so going on and on is absolutely pointless and a waste of time. I'm sure you are a great person outside of your political opinions, some of my best friends I strongly disagree with when it comes to these sort of things. I'm just done arguing.

[taylor22222222]

Let's not forget who started this and who has been the only one who's accusing, criticizing, insulting, and ridiculing....and you're supposedly older :/

I'm all up for a civil debate, but if you're not willing to comply..I'm only going to laugh at you lol.

Oh, and you have a wonderful day as well sweetheart.

[taylor22222222]

I think I should end it here by saying you are absolutely mentally capable of holding up your own self. And if by any chance your 'disease' affects you...then you can pay for treatment yourself.

And just so you know, life ain't to cherry for me...nor will even a small portion of the world be....so here's where you and I differentiate: I'm not the one complaining for someone else to fix what "*"could"* happen to me one day.

[shsband1]

No, the difference between you and I is that I can actually vote for what happens, where as you can only sit by and watch it happen. So, I'm obviously not going to convince you no matter what. I'm more worried about my father than myself, if you haven't noticed, so stop trying to sound as though I am self-centered. Just stop replying, or actually, you know what? Keep on replying. Because what you say doesn't matter. You can't do shit about it. Bye. Have a nice life.

[taylor22222222]

Lol, okay...running out of P-BO juice already? You're too funny.

[shsband1]

And most of these patients can't AFFORD to keep going back, and are lucky if they have health insurance. 1 in 6 Americans don't have health insurance, the majority being between the ages of 18 and 29. This isn't because they are LAZY, it's because this is the age group that just starts off working and they don't make enough to cover insurance and their job isn't good enough to provide it. If your lucky enough to be healthy in that 10 years of life- great. There are many that aren't.

[shsband1]

And IMO, a person's life is more important than a doctor's ability to afford a new Porsche or a trip to Italy. The government needs to fix this corrupt health care system. Doctors and Pharmeceutical companies get paid MORE for patients that stay sick. This is because the patients need to continue to come back and continue to take prescriptions providing the doctors and pharmaceutical companies with more business.

[shsband1]

I just believe that we have a very materialistic society that cares more about money and expensive things than one another. I work- I work to live. I don't work so that I can afford a new expensive car, or a new plasma tv, or a new expensive laptop. Sure, those things are nice, but they are UNNECESSARY. Doctors are WAY overpaid, those in the pharmaceutical business are WAY overpaid, and health insurance agencies are corrupt. It is the government's JOB to ensure the wellbeing of it's people.

[shsband1]

Did you know that even if I COULD afford it, I CANNOT get health insurance? I have Crohn's disease. As I have a pre-existing condition, no insurance agency would even CONSIDER covering me, I am a risk. I would cost them money instead of make them money. The current healthcare system is captalistic, which is WRONG. A person should NOT be turned away from health care because they are sick. THAT IS WHAT HEALTH CARE IS FOR!

[shsband1]

But unless the government fixes the health care system, sick people are going to continue being sick or going bankrupt. And BANKRUPTCY leads to a BAD ECONOMY. D'uh. You obviously have never had an ill relative in a sticky situation. You obviously have had an easy life and a loving family and have never seen what it's like to struggle to survive. And you obviously care more about money than the lives of people. Just like the health insurance agencies and pharmaceutical companies.

[shsband1]

Apparently you think so. Apparently, since my father no longer has a job that gives him healthcare he should either go bankrupt so that he can live, OR he can just let the cancer take over and die. I think that is DUMB. Things should not be that way. If the government provided healthcare, my father wouldn't have to worry about being put out on the street just because he just so happened to get cancer. What you don't understand is circumstance.

[taylor22222222]

Here you go yet again...um, like I said it's up to your STATE government to provide a healthcare system for whatever state you're in. I also think that maybe you're living beyond your means and you complain to the rest of the population that it's all about poor you with this or that disease or you fathers cancer. If you think things shouldn't be this way...well, GTFO! Everyone has their own problems...do ya get it yet?

[shsband1]

Suffer??!! So not being able to have a fuckin excess money is SUFFERING? Get a clue, YOU ARE GREEDY! You care more about being able to have your excess than whether someone dies of cancer! I seriously hope something horrible like that happens to you, maybe then you will change your mind. And I AM NOT living beyond my means. This is not my computer, it's my boyfriends. But that doesn't matter and isn't any of your business.

[shsband1]

And YES, I care about my father's cancer and my health, I'm sorry if I'm GREEDY and SELF-CENTERED for thinking that health should come before luxury. I know that I, for one, would not mind paying extra taxes if it meant saving many peoples lives. But you are a typical conservative, you care more about your luxury than the well-being of other LIVING human beings. You would rather have a couple thousand dollar computer than be able to help another person. YOU ARE SELFISH!

[taylor22222222]

I see you're addressing some of the issues I taked about earlier....I wait until you have an answer for the rest, because this is going nowhere but in circles...

[taylor22222222]

*speaking on behalf of evilness and greediness....just bear this in mind....You can't have it without my organ!

[taylor22222222]

Oh gawd no...not your computer...I knew that was coming :/

[shsband1]

Is there something wrong with it not being my computer? Hmm? Mr. I don't have to pay for my own living conditions and therefor can afford a $2,000 Mac, even though there are people who can't even afford to pay for things such as cancer treatments. Your like a child who screams "MINE!" as soon as someone wants to play with their toy. You would rather have a person die than go without your luxuries. And btw, I've had to buy my own clothes since I was in eighth grade.

[shsband1]

So don't act as though you are SO self-supporting, ok? I've had to find my own way through life since I was 16, I've had to deal with shit that you couldn't even imagine. Now, I consider myself at a good point, but it pisses me off when people are angry over having to pay a little more on taxes so that others can actually LIVE. OH NO! CAN'T GIVE UP THAT LITTLE BIT OF EXCESS MONEY! OMG! But you have no heart, and until you grow one, I'm no longer replying.

[taylor22222222]

Here comes the guilt card...anymore? Gawd I swear, it's nothing but insults...backtracking...criti­cism...and then a little of 'well it's only a little bit more that we have to pay'. Again, you need not pay into a system that corrupt. You're in fantasy land if you think our government is making the right choices. Did you support Bush when he was doing the same thing, but with banks...remember the Enron Scam? How about the massive expansion/invasion of government under Bush...massive deficits?

[1861PATRIOT]

I dont have no "bit of excess money" Nor do I believe such a condition exist. You can never have too much money and I dont have enough. I struggle to feed, cloth, and house my own family because I am forced at the point of the IRS's gun to have about 1/3 of my income stole from me to support habitual leeches. Need something work. I work between 80 - 90 hours a week. I never learned how to hold my hand out. Were is my fair treatment. Charity is the charter of the Church not the Government

[taylor22222222]

No, there's absolutely nothing wrong it. I just knew it when I was typing the comment that you were going to deny that it is yours. Oh, by the way I bought this MacBook Pro after saving for about 2 months.  It was $1296, not 2 grand.

And again, there you go with the whole "i'm better than you in every shape or form because I'm a few years older and I think I have better character than you, even though I'm the one saying that things like *"FREE"* health care should be spoon-fed to me'.

[taylor22222222]

One last thing I want to cover is you say I have no knowledge of economics or politics.....right, k good....now back up that theory, go ahead and prove me wrong on what you think I have no understanding of, wait......are you out of P-BO juice yet?

[shsband1]

As I said, I am not arguing with someone who is telling me that I need to take care of myself when they don't even take care of themself. Your mommy and daddy take care of you, so until you support yourself, shove it. OK? I'm not on welfare, nor do I ever plan to be, and you know NOTHING about me so STFU. I support myself, but sometimes life is difficult and shit happens. My father got cancer right after being laid off because of a failing economy. Should he die because of that?

[taylor22222222]

Nope, and like you said shit happens...so why should someone else suffer for that too? It's like you don't seem to get it....you'll believe anything you hear on the internet, I'm 16 , I've been workikng and buying my own luxuries and necessities such as my own clothes since I was 12...so not necessarily getting spoonfed...oh and I'm homeschooled so...there goes that whole 'I wannebe so popular' deal. Here's a suggestion...you obviously have a computer...sell it! And quit living beyond...(con)

[taylor22222222]

And what else is just the absolute hightlight of the day is that I'm the one saying it's not up to someone else to take care of me or anyone else who is physically and mentally capable of handing their own life. But hey, don't take my word for it...take it from the guys who...you know...created this country!

Shsband1 who apparently is too good for aruging with this kid, just wants the gov to take care of here every need..one week it's healthcare...next it's welfare..you people are hilarious!

[taylor22222222]

It's not up to the federal government to take care of your butt...which is exactly what you're getting at. It's up to the states and whether or not they can afford it...and guess what?! Not only can most states do that themselves, but the government is already driving us into the ground with the other projects which are going absolutely nowhere. WE CANNOT EVEN A-F-F-O-R-D IT!

[taylor22222222]

*Not only can most states NOT do that themselves.

[taylor22222222]

that taxes the second highest percentage of consumption taxes of any other nation in the world, yet we still hold at least the 37th spot in healthcare.

One thing I should ask that would definitely be beneficial for you is, have you ever read any founding documents...have you ever put yourself in the past and realized what this country has overcome by NOT having a large government.

Part of what's useful of the 10th amendment is healthcare for it's people don't ya think?

[shsband1]

The way I look at it is this: If your house catches fire and burns down or a criminal breaks into your home, do you get billed for calling the fire department or police? The answer is no. They are paid by the government, their wages and all that are regulated BY the government. That is the way healthcare should be.

[taylor22222222]

WOW........

The Police, the Fire Department are local. Like I mentioned with the whole 10th amendment thing. It's funded by the state not the federal government.

Listen, it's not the government's job to take care of your butt...and that's exactly what you're getting at.

Haven't you realized when programs are controlled by the government, it goes in the toilet. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, the Post Office (even Obama will tell you that lol).

[shsband1]

You know what? I don't even know why the hell I am arguing with a 14 year old. Until YOU pay taxes, YOU have a job, and YOU have to pay for your own healthcare, STFU. You have no idea what the real world is like, so stop trying to sound as though you do and go play your video games and worry about how poplular you are in school. End of argument. Until you can run for office, or at least vote, keep your opinions to yourself. Have a nice day. :)

[taylor22222222]

There you go, show your true liberal colors!...I knew I'd get it out of you eventually. LOL!! I guess my taking points were a little too convicing so you go way off topic and say that I just don't understand things when really it's that I don't understand things the way you want me to, otherwise you'd actually have a comeback rather than an insult or criticism. Tell you what....since you can't bother to keep up with me or the world around you, GTFO!

Have a wonderful day hon! :^)

[shsband1]

He PROVED my point that he's an idiot at the end. France East. LOL. Dumbass.

[shsband1]

ANDDDDDDD WTF does what you WEAR of the way you style your HAIR have to do with ANYTHING. This guy is an IDIOT. And how old is he? He wants to egg people's homes? And he completely contradicts himself- so he'll give money to the church to help support those in need but not to the government. What he wants is a Theocracy.

Oh wait... He's a Catholic. That explains everything.

[shsband1]

#1, for all the people that call Democrats Socialists, well then- Republicans are Theocrats. So stfu. Please.

#2 I'm SO sick of people stating that those who want Universal Healthcare just sponge off the government. Be a LITTLE open-minded. PLEASE. Just because YOU were always able to make it, doesn't mean that everyone was. My father got cancer RIGHT after being laid off from a car dealership. Guess where all his life savings went because he had not health insurance? Health care.

[floridajeff27]

Blame beaurocrats (politians) for insurance cost and high amounts of GDP toward healthcare. Health insurance is a scam and we did not need it for almost 200 years and did very well! Ron Paul talks about his days giving free care at his hospital at the begining of his health career.

[taylor22222222]

:) thank you. I really appreiciate your comment. And seriously, if these libs suddenly got a huge raise in their job or an inheritance, then they'd be all conservative, I guarentee that! God Bless y'all.

[shsband1]

Not all liberals are "losers" or "lazy". I'm liberal. I was at the top of my class, I did chores, I have a job. I decided not to go to college because it's not for me, NOT because I'm lazy. I HAVE a job. I support myself. I just can't afford to spend hundreds a month on health insurance, nor could I if I wanted to. No health insurance agency WOULD cover me because I have Crohn's Disease. So until you get REFUSED healthcare, please stfu and stop talking about things you don't know about.

[taylor22222222]

Right...got it. Just answer me this. Since when is health care ever 'free'? It's as if you're telling me that the big evil companies we have are no better than Obama's proposed health care plan. Correct me if I'm wrong, but also try to elaborate a little more.

And another thing, I don't think I ever called liberal's 'losers'. I could say that every liberal that I have met in my lifetime was a 'loser' without a job. I'm glad you take care of yourself though and have a job, good for you.

[taylor22222222]

To back up this comment: All you have to do is look at Alec Baldwin's recent views on taxes...he's all liberal until it comes to taxes...because it effects him as well.

[shsband1]

I'm not complaining about taxes. I'd rather pay high taxes than $700 a month on healthcare- oh wait, but I can't get healthcare because I'm not perfectly healthy. Soooo, I'd rather pay high taxes than thousands of dollars on simple healthcare procedures. Healthcare shouldn't even be as expensive as it is.

Just watch "Frontline: Sick Around the World", it's in 5 parts, watch them all. Google it and click on the first link, then click on "Watch Full Program Online".

[taylor22222222]

I've seen videos like those, I've even watched Sicko. Anyways, it just makes me wonder why people like you would trust an organization that shouldn't have anything to do with businesses. Look at our debt....and our underestimated deficits that the white house keeps reporting. I agree that the healthcare system needs to be revamped, but the proposed plan will hurt us in the long run. And what you're doing is supporting it, because it may help you...what about the 300 million other people?

[taylor22222222]

So, that means that someone is going to pay for it and it won't be cheap. Companies that people have health insurance though are likely to put them on Obama Care because the price is lower...then when the system is overwhelmed, it will collapse. Not to mention you'll get government employees fresh out of medical school willing to work for less. It's like, you have social security, medicare/medicaid bankrupting the nation non-stop and you want to put more faith in the federal government?

[shsband1]

If you've seen videos like that, then you must realize that those healthcare systems haven't failed, so why would it fail if our government copied one? We are the richest country in the world, and yet are healthcare system ranks 37th overall with efficiency, quality, price, etc.

[taylor22222222]

Because every other government that posses such a system has been BAnkrUPt!  Why is it that when the US catches a cold, the rest of the worlds gets the flu. It couldn't possibly be because of our success being a Capitalist nation. Oh, and speaking of capitalism and success, ever since India adopted this system, they've cut their poverty levels in half. Finally: I'll tell you why our system ranks 37th and not in 1st...it's because we have had a wanna be socialist government...(cont...)

[taylor22222222]

That's what I say, but no it's just too hard for them, even a simple job like a cashier. Gosh, every time I go into a grocery store or even a Wal-Mart or Target, you get people that have absolutely no personality or just blow you off. You know, I just don't see why they can't be like the rest of us, heck I'm only 14 years old and I work hard around my neighborhood whether it's mowing, detailing cars, or gardening. And on top of school and doing chores around the house and I'm not complaining.

[red5standing]

So, does my husband spending $550 a month for healthcare for a family of 3 ridiculous or is it me? Shouldn't I be able to lobby the health insurance companies for a lower payment because I am sorry, I don't think it makes us competitive as a country when a large part of our income goes to ridiculously high health care costs! It should not cost $6,000 a year plus co payments to insure a family...

[Dyne77]

United States: life expectancy (m/f) 75/80; spends 15.2% of GDP on healthcare

Canada: life expectancy (m/f) 78/83; spends 9.8% of GDP on healthcare

France: life expectancy (m/f) 77/84; spends 11.2% of GDP on healthcare

UK: life expectancy (m/f) 77/81; spends 8.2% of GDP on healthcare

Website with info:

who(.)int(/)countries(/)en(/)

(remove parentheses)

[Dyne77]

According to the World Health Organization, the United States spends more money per person on healthcare than any country in the world. However, countries with universal healthcare systems (including Canada, Britain, and France) have higher life expectancy and lower infant mortality rates, despite spending a smaller percentage of their income on healthcare.

[RedPandaBoy]

i have a job, thank you very much. but thanks for being presumptious.

[jtkratzer]

There are a federal regulations on the insurance companies requiring them to take in a certain amount of money in premium based on the number of policies they have issued. A company must be solvent and able to pay a massive number of claims should some freak disaster happen.

Blaming the insurance companies is the equivalent of blaming Big Oil for the gas prices when the government (federal and state combined) get several times more profit per gallon of gas we purchase than the oil company does.

[jtkratzer]

There are a lot of abuses in the healthcare system and it's part of the reason why the costs of insurance are so high. There is absolutely no reason my wife and I should pay the amount of money we do for healthcare for how little we use medical services.

That $17,000 price increase on the exact same procedure my sister got two years prior is an example. That price increase, "due to inflation," from a non-profit hospital.

It's not the insurance that's to blame. It's the doctors and facilities.

[jtkratzer]

I have no issues with healthcare reform, our system is in need, but we do not need the federal government controlling the healthcare system.

As I said earlier, there is a problem with the mentality of the people. We have the most advanced medical equipment in the world, the best medical technology...who is going to pay for it? Who pays the costs of the multi-million dollar pieces of equipment?

If you use the services, they you do, as you should.

[jtkratzer]

You are making excuses for people. With the freedom to choose comes the responsibility to take care of yourself. I don't want the government to be my babysitter. I take responsibility for my family. My bills, insurance, etc. (my needs) come before my wants - vacations, new cars, newer electronics, etc.

I'm an adult and take care of myself. The government's job is not to save me from myself.

[jtkratzer]

France and Canada aren't better places to get care. There are long wait times in both places for elective and non-emergency medical care. I've spent time in France and Germany while in school. Ask me how I know. I know people who live in all three countries who have all said healthcare in the US is better. No, they don't pay for insurance, but they pay through the nose for taxes.

You complained about SS and not getting what you paid. You'll being paying for others' healthcare, is that ok?

[WhatCrass]

Then why is France rated number 1 in the world for health care; where doctors still make house calls 24 hours a day and the United States ranks 37th?

HMOs are corporations that MAKE money by denying you care.

[jtkratzer]

Who said anything about HMOs? I don't have one. I don't work with any.

All insurance companies are businesses and the last I checked, most businesses are in business to make a profit. Their doors aren't open to provide jobs or free service.

If you ever had the desire to open a business of your own, don't you think you'd want to make a profit?

[WhatCrass]

The problem I have is that these HMOs should not exist at all.

I have no problem when it comes to people who want to make profit off of nonessential items, like a car or a bagel. But the idea of making profit off of sickness or war is sickening and it should be immediately stopped.

[jtkratzer]

Should car insurance companies not make a profit? What about life insurance?

Insurance is about transferring risk. You pay for that. It's not making money off of sickness. It's making money off of people being healthy. Insurance companies don't make money when they're paying out claims. They make money by people paying premiums and not going to the doctor because they don't get sick. That's why there is underwriting and they want the healthiest people to insure.

[WhatCrass]

A car is a luxury item that has nothing to do with my point about HMOs.

Following your example of risk, what if we removed airbags and replaced them with machetes pointed at everyone's throat? Then changed the speed limit to 3 miles per hour.

[jtkratzer]

What are you talking about with the airbags and machetes?

[taylor22222222]

hmmmm...kind of sounds like what the government is doing.

[jtkratzer]

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury. From that time on the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship."

- attributed to Sir Alex Fraser Tytler (1742-1813)

Someone should listen to this guy.

[RedPandaBoy]

I believe people are willing to vote for socialized healthcare.. in the regard that we still pay for it through taxes, but lose the profit from the middle people.. insurance companies.

Doctors will still get paid, but having companies take the backslash of providing healthcare and those companies using insurance companies who profit off everyone.. Maybe some of us just honestly think there's a better solution to this. If other countries can do it, so can this one.

[jtkratzer]

And that's the problem right there. The government is forcing companies to stop making a profit in an effort to provide everyone healthcare. It's not the government's job to provide healthcare.

When you start taking away profits, that's wrong.

How can the government manage, let alone create this program when they can't run a census on the computer and they're back to pencil and paper?

[RedPandaBoy]

By copying 'a' government that did it correctly. Though it's not general 'companies'.. it's insurance companies. I kind of find them the middle man that doesn't need to be there.

[jtkratzer]

And you don't work in the insurance industry to have any knowledge of how it works do you?

[RedPandaBoy]

actually yes, I work for a hospital and one of the people who have to tell other people that their insurance won't cover 'it'.

[jtkratzer]

I absolutely agree about the sign in your yard about being on welfare. It would be incentive to get off the program for those who actually care that they're a burden to society. I'd love to know who's getting my tax dollars, who else am I feeding with my paycheck other than my own family.

[WhatCrass]

You also have a socialized police and fire department, schools, and libraries.

[Szierse]

To answer your question Dadadamien: state mandated atheism, secret police, show trials, gulags, and government created famines, all of which killed millions of innocent people. That's some people's problem with socialism.

[WhatCrass]

That's Stalinist Communism. People who talk about things they don't know say stuff like that.

Socialism is about putting people before profits. College and health care would be paid through taxes and the drug companies would be regulated like the utilities.

[jtkratzer]

And it's not the government's responsibility to provide these things. Read the constitution. Profit is what drives this country and this economy. People who make profit create jobs. The government does not. It's not the drug companies' responsibility to take care of healthcare or education.

Be an adult and take care of it yourself. Take responsibility for your own life.

[WhatCrass]

Really? So we shouldn't have a fire department, library, police department or public schools according to you since it's not written in the Constitution.

How would you feel if the fire department reported there was 40 fires in the town and only put of 20. Would you be happy with the profits they made off of denying services like an HMO? What if your house was the one they didn't put out.

[jtkratzer]

And guess what...those services, fire, ambulance, police, etc...all local services. Not funded by the federal government. I'm fine with a charity system that is monitored and administered at the local level to have better control over the abuses.

I'm a firm believer in strictly limiting what's available for purchase with welfare money to the bare basic necessities to survive...no junk food, no fast food, no alcohol, no tobacco...bare basics. You want more...get yourself a job!

[Dadadamien]

What the fuck is some people's problem against socialism? Or even against some aspects of it? Socialist healthcare? What the sweet crap is so wrong about that?

He wants his kids to have the choice a medical insurer? What about if his kids can't afford a medical insurer? Waiting in a line for a bureaucrat? Has he even left the USA to experience socialism?

[jtkratzer]

The problem is we shouldn't be taxed for it. We should have the right to choose. There is no right to healthcare. There is no right to education. You have to be able to afford them.

How can the government manage our healthcare when they can't properly handle running the next national census on computer software and they're doing it with pencil and paper. How can they handle healthcare when they can't handle a census?

[RedPandaBoy]

.. how can 'the' government do it.... i guess copying 'a' government that was able too.

But I guess that's the issue... as a people, we make up the 'rights'. We decide which right or obligations the government has, and what right to take away.

There's no clause in the constitution saying the government needs be socialist.. but there's nothing 'against' it either.

They're taking away the right to choose... Yeah.. You don't pick to pay for it.. you have to, like how we pay for the police.

[jtkratzer]

Actually, the constitution does not allow for socialism. The constitution limits the power of the federal government and any power not directly given to the constitution falls back to the individual state. If it's not formally addressed by the state, it's up to the individual.

There are no rights to guaranteed healthcare or education. Just like you don't have the right to be guaranteed to not be murdered and to have protection by the police.

[RedPandaBoy]

you're making it sound as if there's no such thing as 'limited socialism'.. as if Social Security and Medicare isn't a form of distribution of wealth.

"There are no rights to guaranteed healthcare or education" .. even though it's against the law to not allow you child to attend school or get an education and if you can't afford a special school, there's public education.

It's kind of hard to take that seriously when our government currently contradicts you. Maybe you should state your source

[jtkratzer]

I'm not a fan of Medicare or Social Security either. I'm not a fan of the government doing something for me that I can do myself.

SS is not a redistribution of wealth. You pay in based on your income and the more you paid in, the more you get. It's not like I pay a % of my income and then get the same flat rate as the guy who worked minimum wage until he retired.

[RedPandaBoy]

"SS is not a redistribution of wealth. You pay in based on your income and the more you paid in, the more you get. It's not like I pay a % of my income and then get the same flat rate as the guy who worked minimum wage until he retired. "

But you don't exactly get what you pay.. you're paying for someone else's SS.. and other people will literally pay for yours when you stop working. But it's a 'form' of socialism, limited at most.

[jtkratzer]

I can go down a list of the Pillars of Communism in the Communist Manifesto and find things in US legislation that meet those criteria in that book. That doesn't make it right and it doesn't make the country as a whole a socialist country. I want to limit the socialism.

I'm tired of entitlement programs. SS exists because people aren't responsible enough to manage their own money for retirement. It's another case of the government trying to take care of people who should be able themselves.

[RedPandaBoy]

And that's where the conversation should end... "I'm tired of entitlement program"... It's not about what's best for the majority of the people.. it's just you.

But there are people who want this.. and it seems to out number the other side. But that's what the election process is for. I know which side i'm voting for, it's understand if mines doesn't hold interest to you.

[jtkratzer]

Did you read this quote? If so, and you understand it, you're part of the problem.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury. From that time on the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship."

[RedPandaBoy]

I don't see asking for socialized healthcare as that problem. considering canada is doing pretty well with it.

That quote implies that people can ask ruin a coverment over who can offer the most promises. But that doesn't imply it is wrong to expect _something_ from the government. It's a nice quote, but I can and have fully disagree with the premise considering as things are now we are kinda in that dictatorship when a president ignores our constituions.

Short answer - wrong issue.

[jtkratzer]

The president isn't ignoring the constitution. If he was, he'd be impeached.

It is wrong to expect something from the government. The government isn't in place to babysit, take care of, or provide a lifestyle for people.

Read the Federalist Papers. They fully explain the constitution, why it's written the way it is, and why it works.

[RedPandaBoy]

"The President isn't ignoring the constitution" .... 5 words.. _Patriot Act and Unwarranted Wiretapping_ Those two programs contradict the constitution.. And he called for them..

[jtkratzer]

Have you contacted your politicians or are you just and internet tough guy who complains online about the President?

[RedPandaBoy]

Joe Casey and Arlen Specter. The answer is yes... though let's get side track from the issue and let's talk about rather or not if I take politics seriously..

If the president did A.. B should happen.. let's ignore that A did happen and B is slowly going into the process as we speak.

[WhatCrass]

You know what, you're right! All this whining by us socialist who think it's not fair that he makes more than me....its not fair that I can't heat my house or buy groceries...its not fair that I can't keep my home...its not fair that I can't afford my medicine and I am 78 years old and suffering from diabetes and I had to bury my husband in the backyard because I cant afford funeral expenses.....waaaahhhh....toug­hen up and stop being jealous of everyone who earned their place at the top!

[RedPandaBoy]

what about the people.. who can't afford it.. sure, we ALL want a better life, but what about those who have that desire.. but the desire isn't enough?

Oh.. they were treated wrongly buy the people after they appeared.. they were demonized.. He's diverting the problem..

[jtkratzer]

Work full time hours. Plenty of employers have employer group healthplans for those who work full time. If you work full time, you should be able to pay your bills and get off the welfare system.

Get a job and pay your own bills. Take care of yourself.

[RedPandaBoy]

Unless you have a previous condition.. or get a condition your health plan doesn't cover.

But you don't really offer solutions to 'these' kind of problem, or acknowledge there is a problem.

I see it like this.. if we don't pay the police people personally by the hour, or get charged for their services.. why not move that protection to health care?

But whatever

[jtkratzer]

Employer groups, for the most part, take everyone after a 30-day waiting period.

There is a difference between not being able to get insurance because of a health condition and not being able to afford it while driving an SUV, smoking a pack a day at almost $5/pack, drink alcohol, have huge TVs with all the extra services, etc. etc. etc. It's call priorities. I pay for my health insurance for my wife and I 100% out of my pocket. It's a priority to me.

[RedPandaBoy]

And we open up the possibility... and what about the people not being able to get 'health' insurance because of health conditions?

Though.. even able to get a huge TV (considering the 'small' percentage of people able to afford hd), does a thousand dollar really cover the thousands of dollars to get taken care of?

It's funny.. "Employer Groups, 'for the most part'" meaning they don't take everyone.. and a lot of people aren't covered. That's the problem...

[jtkratzer]

I didn't say there is an end all be all solution by nixing the whole program. I'm simply saying that socialized healthcare is not the answer. The best healthcare in the world comes with a price. Why do you think more people want to come to this country for their care than anywhere else?

The problem with this country, with goods and services, is most people want the absolute best of the best but complain about the price tag. They want it at the cheapest price. The world doesn't work that way.

[RedPandaBoy]

"The best Healthcare in the world comes with a price" - though other countries have the same rank, but use less money...

"Why do you think more people want to come to this country" Because it's hard for illegal immigrants to survive in other healthy countries....

"The problem with this country," .. is that few can afford anything here.. while we're over priced for medication that we can get from canada (the exact same thing) cheaper

[jtkratzer]

And where is the research conducted and the technology developed? That's what I thought, here in the US.

Illegal immigrants shouldn't survive well in any country. Notice the word "illegal."

Few can afford anything? Right, that's why there are constantly credit programs out there for every good and service. It's called materialism and people buy buy buy without being responsible with their finances.

[RedPandaBoy]

other countries are better at technology... french are better with cleaner power, oil comes from another country... and the majority of the electronics we have in thsi country... are imported. I think it's nice to be proud to be an american.. but let's not delude ourselves..

Illegal immigrants survive quite well in 'this' country.. But let's admit.. the majority of immigrants are illegal here.

And ... we are suffering a credit problem.. but that's another issue..

[jtkratzer]

And illegal immigrants are a problem here. They're drawing off the entitlement programs without contributing.

I didn't say electronic technology, I was specifically referring to medical advances and medical technology. That is what we're talking about here, healthcare, not MP3 players.

The credit problem is the same as the healthcare problem. People don't take responsibility to prioritize with their money. When people place material possessions ahead of healthcare, that's their problem.

[RedPandaBoy]

eh... france has better medical advancement than us.... And comparing medical problems with credit problems is like comparing a dog for a boot.

People can't excessively 'borrow' treatment.. as opposed to making a promise and creditor giving credit away _none stop_ to people who probably shouldn't have it in the first place.

Credit Problem - everyone loses... Healthcare Problem, people who can't afford treatment lose.

[jtkratzer]

Comparing whether or not people can pay their bills on their credit cards and whether or not they can afford to buy health insurance because of other bad financial decisions they've made isn't comparing a dog to a boot. It's simply saying that people in general are responsible for their own problems.

I get no assistance on the price of my insurance, I'm self-employed. My wife's employer is based in London and doesn't provide group coverage. We pay 100% on our own. We make it work.

[jtkratzer]

People do borrow treatment. They sign a paper saying "I'm financially responsible should my insurance not cover this."

I know people who have thousands of dollars in medical bills to various facilities because they chose not to buy insurance and now are responsible for those expenses.

I don't lose on the credit problem because I didn't abuse my credit. I don't lose on the healthcare because I made it a financial priority to pay for it. So should everyone else. Take responsibility.

[RedPandaBoy]

It's ignore the people who 'haven't' made bad financial or health decisions and still unable to afford healthcare.

If someone can afford healthcare and decide not to pay. No one would argue what they get is ironic.. But there are people who simply 'can't' afford it from no fault of their own. That's why people like me are pushing for sociailzed medicine. I already can afford my own bills and have insurance, but I have people I know who are struggling to get help even w/ insurance.

[jtkratzer]

I just can't fathom how people can't afford insurance. There are plans out there for under $50/month for my wife and I. Sure, they have high deductibles and what not, but it's insurance.

You have not answered me on this question: How can the government manage or administrate a nationwide socialized healthcare system when they can't even get software for a census to work?

[RedPandaBoy]

"I just can't fathom how people can't afford insurance" I should apologize.. I meant 'health care'. I said 'healthcare' Insurance is just one way towards health care. But if you have a previous condiction.. or if your current condition is too much, you can lose your insurance immediately.. after getting your money back.

[jtkratzer]

Whoever is doing this needs sued. It's illegal. I work in the insurance industry. Where are you in PA?

[RedPandaBoy]

exactly what is this... I posted a lot of "this" to you.

[jtkratzer]

Is this directed at me? If so, I have no idea what you mean.

RedPandaBoy (3 minutes ago)

exactly what is this... I posted a lot of "this" to you.

[RedPandaBoy]

I'm not sure why, but my post aren't coming through. Anyway, to continue this, you can reach me at pawsie @ gmail . com I find that better than talking about this over youtube.

[Quickwinklongsstare]

this guy is retarded, lets shoot him

[Drayke15]

About the church... how much did the surgery cost? Probably several thousand dollars, if not dozens of thousand!!! And you're going to tell me your church, which probably only gets 50 people every sunday, will be able to donate that much? NO! Barely anyone goes to churches anymore, and you expect churches to pay for healthcare now? What if you aren't Catholic, or you're athiest? People have the right to be athiest. Does that mean if you're athiest, you don't get help from churches?

[pacificguitarist]

"the masses who can't care for their kids they shoudn't have had them in the first place!"

So.... your punishing the kids for their parents mistake? You my friends are a fucking idiot. And I dont say that a lot.

[cunfuzzed]

And why don't the Republicans change their name to the Nazi Party?

[james1053]

Maybe because the Nazis were the National Socialist Party of Germany, and the Republicans aren't the one's advocating SOCIALIZED medicine, SOCIALIZED daycare, SOCIALIZED housing, SOCIALIZED anything... that's the Democrats.

[cunfuzzed]

Time for a history lesson. The Nazis weren't socialists, they were fascist. Fascism and socialism are two conflicting ideologies. Get your facts right.

Besides, government is meant for the good of the people. Wouldn't one think that involves socializing some things that involve the good of the people?Like healthcare?

[james1053]

you can't rewrite history.

nazi = national socialist party

go look it up.

no. i don't think the federal government should socialize healthcare. i don't think it's in the people's best interest.

[cunfuzzed]

Take your own advice. Instead of assuming they were socialist based on the fact that the word is in their name, go look up their ideals. Every article I've ever read on them (and I'm a history buff) says the word "Fascist." Socialism was the government favored by Communists, not Nazis. One would imagine there's a reason many socialists were deemed "unworthy of life," By the Nazi party. You're the one who's got your history wrong.

Then explain to me how the people couldn't benefit from it.

[james1053]

"instead of assuming they were socialist based on the fact that the word is in their name"

hilarious.

socialized medicine is an unconstitutional burden where wealth is redistributed (ie socialism/communism) and the government controls who gets healthcare, when they get it, from whom they get it, if they get it. it's failing in canada, UK, and france. should it be desired by a constituency, it's only constitutional at the state level, and not the federal level.

[cunfuzzed]

Unconstitutional? Where in the Constitution does it say that government shouldn't provide for the benefit of the people? Nowhere! That is simply an absurd statement.

The great thing about this country is that government doesn't have the power to decide who gets it, the people do. Government is by the people, for the people. That would mean that everybody would receive health care.

[cunfuzzed]

I could understand your objection, if we lived in a dictatorship, but we don't. The people would control who would get health care.

[james1053]

here's what makes it unconstitutional... it's not enumerated as a power to the federal government anywhere in the constitution and the tenth amendment says... "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

so my assertion that socialized medicine can only be instituted at the state level is factually sound.

[cunfuzzed]

Did it ever occur to you that socialized medicine (or socialism for that matter) wasn't a concept that the founding fathers knew about? If they had, they would've said that it was a good thing.

[Backpackr3]

cunfuzzed...you certainly live up to your name. You have you question completely backward. You should have asked "Where in the constitution is the federal government granted the power to enact socialist medicine?" Yes...fed run socialist medicine is unconstitutional....one needs look no further than the 10th amendment.

[cunfuzzed]

'"instead of assuming they were socialist based on the fact that the word is in their name"'

hilarious."

Maybe so, but if you ever took a history class (which evidently isn't worth your time) you would know they are fascist. History is on my side, not yours.

[james1053]

oh ok. so even though they call themselves socialist and adopted a socialist platform, they really aren't socialist? my bad.

the government DOES decide who gets healthcare under socialized medicine. ask a canadian how long it takes to get a CAT scan. brits are flying to india for heart surgery because they can't get it in their own country. obese people can't emigrate to new zealand. the french don't even get treated for cancer if it's in an advanced stage.

[cunfuzzed]

They didn't even have a socialist platform. The only reason that socialism is even mentioned in the name of the Nazi Party was to convey a sense of common duty among the Volk (people of Germany).

The whole idea behind socialism is that the government works only for the good of the people. The idea behind Nazi fascism was that the government's duty was to restore the purity of the Volk.

[diesel5355]

horray dude!

[violatrix]

lol. Classical American.

[lolo2556]

this guy is stupid as hell

[TeamSIckoEh]

too bad the condom broke and Mike Church was born because of that

[TeamSIckoEh]

You are a moran your statement. Two of uncles were KILLED by a communist government and you are too STUPID to understand what a communist government is. - typical neo-con

[asclepias]

Wow, this guy is a fascist. We need socialism, we need health care for all, and we really don't need Mike Church with a microphone. What a scumbag.

[mhmckee]

Well, everyone who thinks the way you folks do ought to be exterminated.

[vocalbrush]

Hats off to you!!

[suspect19766]

Keep up the good work Mike.

[TonyComix]

YES, thank you for saying this! I understand shit happens, but over half of the people who are on welfare don't even try to get a job. All they have to do is go in interviews and dress all shitty and won't even try to get that job, so they stay on welfare. Some of them even get more kids so they get more money and those kids won't even get a DIME from it.

[JakeandElwoodBlues]

Amen! Boneheads like Hillary, Ed Rendell, Nancy Pelosi, Ted Kennedy, they don't look outside the box. We should focus on actual poor people who really need our help. Instead they spread it to everyone, rich or poor, oblivious to how much it would cost, yet they complain about was costs, then when the President vetos it because of logical reasons, they outcry that he doesn't care about the children. Lies!