@georgehsliew imo - The first move is a fast move, "weakening the armor"; it does not do much damage, but is strong enough to "dent" the opponent, leaving him vulnerable to a more powerful secondary move.
There are more options, but (for me), the second move would have been a swift, powerful kick with the right leg towards the bladder area. The master's stance seems to lend its self to it.
The second move would follow the first fluently and (as said) with quite a bit of force.
@georgehsliew, i think youre right with the denting, and if he had followed through and dented his opponent the upward whipping movements would catch opponent in the throat as he doubled over. I have studied martial arts for over 20 years and chinese internal arts for 12 years, and it is obvious that this is shown as a demo. If they were used for real they would be a lot closer, but if they did them at that range no one could see what was going on.
@colaFRank It is not Wing Chun. It is a demonstration of a structure. If one assumes a melee in frames, this is one frame. I like the whipping energy. The raised hands are probably defensive for a counterattack, much like the opening in the Yang Style form: a double inside deflection with a downward blow or lap sau then downward double palm strike. NO, NO, NO.... he was just happy to punch his student... that's it.
In my earliest days of T'ai Chi study, I had firsthand experience of Professor Cheng's ability, and I can assure all the haters and critics of this clip that no one I ever met could lay a hand on him unless he invited them to do so for demonstration purposes. He was completely rooted and centered, and blindingly fast. You'd be flying backward before you even knew you'd been touched. In the 40 years since then, I've met a lot of "masters," but I've never met anyone who surpassed his skill.
This is a combination move. Deflect and punch is obvious. The next move is, 'Separate Left Foot (Y'u Fen Chio.)' This is a move my sifu used to irreverently call, 'Poke 'em in the eyes, Kick 'em in the Balls and Blow 'em out the door.' If Tam Gibbs (that was his name, by the way) had any 'forward intent' his pelvis bone was going to be sore. The Professor just stopped short of throwing the kick. Master C.M.C. earned his chops the 'old school' way before WWII. Watch and learn.
@georgehsliew With enough 'if, then' statements we might convince ourselves we could put all of Shanghai inside a bottle. This is a 'demo' and not a real fight, or even san shou practice. Next time you go out to spar, have someone make a video. Analyze that video with the same critical eye. If, if, if...
@jingpunch Thank you for the comment. You need time to think and you need time to practice. Also, you need to know what other people think, too. That's how I learn.
I do not have alot of expierience in this. Only practicing a year now. Guys, this is not a real fight. The last move is not realy realevant as it is just a holding back, a sideways release of energy. I think that in a real fight, this would have turned into a hit in the neck. It would keep flowing, here it is stopped and therefore not totaly natural. He also does'nt want to hurt his student so its only fair that he holds back. What goes down comes back up...
@georgehsliew I doubt that. The difference is amazing. But if you mean it is not as simple to use then yes but it is more effective this I know. Much more painful too. I know.
chicky chicky boom boom! dat shit is so waist full!!!! you are right george... why punch when we can make love, he should have done the last move first and made it become a hug!
You are right. His last move is good for hugging. But when facing an enemy, a straight punch will break his nose. I'll tell you more when you become a smart kid.
@stupidkid915 You do not understand the Tao. You are laughing about it. And this is because the Tao is what it is. If you were not laughing about it, it would not be the Tao anymore.
thank you for understanding the Tao for me... and thanks for speaking about the Tao so that I will be able to pin point it and put it in a jar for sale on Ebay
its OK lets be friends why argue? I was just calling this guy out because he thinks he knows everything, and is very negative towards other teachers, even attacking what they do just from youtube :) I didnt mean create another BS youtube argument just got sucked in... My bad
I am talking about the person who posted this video to criticize Cheng man Ch'ing... he posts videos like this pointing out things he thinks are wrong in other teachers... so my comment to him was saying in a sarcastic manner that he is "right" and cheng man ching should hug people first before hitting them. it was a play on the way he criticizes people... then the uploader caught on to my sarcasm and attacked me back. I have respect for Cheng man Qing
I think your a complete idiot who has very little, or no knowledge of Gong Fu.
Anyone with an artistic eye can see the elasticity from one move to the next. The final position as the hands raise shows readiness for another series of forward, or downwards strikes.
The last move you see where he briefly raises his arms is a part of the rest of his move. The energy build-up already begins where he shakes the attackers arm off, that energy could have been built up to a straight punch right after his arms come down again in the end of the technique - this is why the last move looks like it has no purpose. In my opionion it only looks that way because Cheng Man Ching doesn't continue his defense.
@georgehsliew Check the videos by Baguamaweiqi, you wont believe them or the things that he does but his lineage is from Shi Chongying an extremely respected TCM in China. If you want to take a trip to China and feel this for yourself let me know, I can let them know your coming. The school is locate in Dongguan, just south of Hong Kong.
@TheCrazyHairPianist Just checked the videos, it has nothing to do with qi or "jing". It is merely techniques. I have seen many many so-called qi or "jing" demonstrations. They are nothing but techniques. These kind of skills will not work in real fight. That's why there are seldom any Tai Chi fighters in the fighting rings. Don't take me wrong, I believe Tai Chi is one of the numerous schools of Chinese martial arts, but it's nothing as superior as those so-called masters demonstrate.
At a glance, rather than express his qi into the student as he punches, he withdraws the qi as he pulls his hand back, disperses it into the air using the 'meaningless' movement and then grounds himself at the end.
At a glance, rather than express his qi into the student as he punches, he withdraws the qi as he pulls his hand back, disperses it into the air using the 'meaningless' movement and then grounds himself at the end.
@georgehsliew My teacher used to make the same kinds of movements when demonstrating a technique, especially when concrete was being struck with a sledge hammer on his back or stomach. Rather than absorb the force into himself he would redirect the energy out his arms or down his legs into the ground. Having been on the receiving end of qi strikes during demonstrations, believe me it is much better to have your teacher flap his arms like a bird rather than focus his energy inside your body.
The so-called qi and marvelous internal strength only exist in believers’ thought. No tai chi masters, now and then, have ever proved to be real. If the qi and strength are real, the masters would be the world champs in the martial art world. I want to believe that, but who can prove it?
@georgehsliew Sorry mate, I can't help you there but hopefully one day, you get the opportunity to experience something that will open your eyes to a whole other world.
The real effective and beautiful move in this clip is how the master broke the grip. The rest may be just demonstrating possible following up movements. Without direct explanation from the master (no audio in the clip), we can only guess this or that. Especially the opponent is just standing there with no move. It is hardly giving us any clue.
hi shamanstevev, yes i see what you mean..you could be correct...it's too bad the video ends where it does...but he could be setting up for shoulder stroke..absolutely right! by the way shamanstevev i have learned some tai-chi...not much though i would agree, but only from the best.. master sing ong..best student of master huang, who, in turn, beat cheng mang ching in a closed door session, thereby handing on the mantle of tai-chi to Huang... take that cow-boy$%##
This move is like an eagle ready to swoop down and stop anything that comes. Since nothing came he relaxed into a different posture. It is common in the internal fighting arts to hold your hands high. From that position you can use your weight and gravity to your advantage. Everything that this man does has a martial arts application. Keep an open mind and see all the possibilities.
the entire section is his "dancing" with the partner's intent - his body is loose but ready to explode - the first move is simple, snapping downward through the oponent's "eye of the tiger: - (that area between the forefinger and thumb - the only opening in the hand) - he is able to escape - the result of that movement has his escaping hand chambered back, ready to punch - the last movement, in my opinion, is merely his finishing the dance - his energy is still flowing - he is completing flow
@kingofaikido Obviously you know very little if anything about Tai Chi Chuan of Professor Cheng Man Ching. The movement at the end is set-up for shoulder stroke should the attacker be martially proficient. If you knew ANYTHING about Cheng, you would know (if not SEE ) that his form in combat is flawless. Having no Tai Chi backround(obvious from the ignorance in what you see) what-so-ever, you have no chance to understand the energies that are being transferred. Should you find ...
A lot of philosophy and Eastern mumbo jumbo but no clear explanation, but it looks like he's setting up for a very precise punch but a lot of Chinese master found out that the umph factor had to be adjusted for bigger stronger western frames but some of this stuff does work you just have to find the right technique and apply it and knowledge is for all who seek it.
@georgehsliew Im uncertain but What I see Is the initial punch which he fills the front leg with some weight,then his hips rollback and forwards again to deliver the second strike-his arms do seem to flay wildly but i think its a split judging by the timing-but its just a guess-can we know his mind
@smr144 well then, when you wake up, please tell us about 'true knowledge' Master Teacher smr144, our ears are ablaze w/ curiosity
hey everybody the high priest of 'true knowledge' is gonna shine a light on our unworthy souls, then he might jump up and do a round house flip kick, to show us all were it's really at
@jawneeshow101 For the benefit of those who are serious about finding a knowledgeable teacher of an internal art, not necessary a famous one with lots of schools, I can recommend the following Masters: Sifu H. Won Gim (NYC), Vincent and Gordon Chu (Boston), Sifu Mougdis (FL), Dr. Michael Guen (CA). I am simply a student who is now starting to see the glimpses of this great Art. But there is a lot of confusing information out there and this CMC video is an example of that.
@lebarosky Unfortunately, I do not know about any good Tai Chi Chuan Sifu in Ohio. But if you are willing to travel like me, I recommend you to go to NYC. Check this out website out: nytaichi dot com slash curriculum and look at the videos. Currently, I live in Fairfax, VA and I go to NYC on the weekends to continue learning from SIFU Gim. But I do it because this is the real deal.
The first move bought him time enough for a second move, plus it really hurt and destabilized the opponent. The second move begins with a high guard that appears to be developing into a hit to the face. The opponent reacts to this, leaving his nether regions wide open. Suddenly the arm drops... If I was doing that, I'd follow with a half step forward, eagle claw the balls, pull as hard as I can and finish with a left hand palm strike to the nose or the jaw. KO. Thank you for your cooperation.
All physical push... No peng-jing. Really folks, do you think that Yang Lu-Chang, The Invincible, was undefeated in the fighting capital of the world -Beijing- of mid 19th century by doing this????? Give me a break...
@jawneeshow101 I do practice the Original Art as practiced by the Yang family lineage and not as the clown/alcoholic of CMC. Go test yourself on the streets to see if what you are learning serves you well or a waste of time/$.
@smr144 um, the whole point of Tai Chi is using NO more then 4 ounces of physical force. If i punched you in testical, as you were moving toward me with a little punch like that, you'd fall down, out of breath.
Give ME break! If you sincerely practiced the art, you wouldn't be so ignorant
His parry and punch are right on time. The next move, which is withdraw (double ward off) and push (but only the first half), works as a sort of temporary guard and counter to possible re-attack by the opponent to Man Ching's initial attack. It only looks strange because they froze the frame on it. He would move on from there to a new ready posture or follow up with the push.
Isn't the "extra move" the start of the form called "raising hands"? Clearly, it sends a wave of motion through the body, which, if he is attacked again, he can use as he is keeping in a fixed position, and not moving his feet. So, it's just physics, right?
CMC was never beaten or surpassed by any martial arts form. If we cannot see the sense in what he did, it is a deficiency in our perception. Someone with absolute certainty in what he does has no need to take chances but for the less experienced to copy might be taking a chance. Thank you for the clip.
The move could have been more direct, his left hand is already on a trajectory towards his opponents exposed face at the same moment he whips his Right hand from the grip. A footwork shuffle would have given his left hand stability and a base to apply force from. However, his right hand whips from the grip, twisting his body which then bounces back toward the opponent. Even if he hadn't broken the hold, the bounce would have uprooted his opponent and could have turned into a lock, throw or break
Just to clear the doubt of many, please let me explan why CMC swung his both arms before he punched. It was his way of losen up muscle and warming up his two arms before he punched. He let his CHI to flow down to his fingertips before he negotiated more effective punch. Undoubtedly the late CMC was a legend and his TAI CHI is unquestionable.
Surprised he punched so simply and with finality? Most others would have created the Tao Te Ching or something. Most effective and a killing blow. Oh, and who gives a hoot about how much of a bad ass he was and how much people liked him and all that silly political crap, the man is a legend so live with it, already.
I met CMC in 1950s in Penang,Malaysia. He brought with him two of his favourite students Wang and Yip who subsequently became very popular TaiChi teachers in Malaysia. I was told that practice of Tai Chi should move the whole body as one. When you look at CMC's hands at the same time you should look at his body and legs as well then you will find some meaning in it. When I saw CMC in Penang he was very strong and firm.
@georgehsliew It feels good to hear you say that. I notice that you practice the "square form" I've always been curious about that style would you ever consider making a video about its history and special characteristics?
Since he never fought anybody we'll never know if his stuff worked or not. Personally I'm not a huge CMC fan, but thats because I learned Tai Ji in mainland China. Nobody seems to like that guy over here.
Look grasshoppa....it IS a wardoff!. The opponent loses contact and control. Cheng can strike. He seems to have balance and opponent does not. Am I wrong? I think not.
this is not a fight...it's a demo for people who have studied with him /really know about those "seemingly meaningless" moves. Think distraction/ multiple opponents / and more;)
To me this video shows the quality of elasticity and explosive power that Cheng's body can produce. He can whip himself however he wants. Very powerful and scary. Not sparring, not a technique demo, but liquid power. Mike
(cont)To me it appears to be a second punch coming out of the natural continuation of the previous issue(both of which are exploiting the center line being left open) but is instead being wound down in his body since the student is already backing off in a confused manner.
Perhaps you gauge the risk differently. From your comments here and in the other video you seem like an intelligent fighter with limited exposure to PCMC Tai Chi theory. I will attempt to explain what my limited skills can inerpret from this to help your genuine curiosity. The hand escaping is a simply a clear. Shaking off of a booger in a way. You seem mostly curious about the move after the punch(the punch seems very nice to me btw).
or me the most important thing in fighting is a gook connection with the ground.A practitioner who is rooted to the ground can defeat one who is not.You get there through practicing forms correctly.Cheng in this video is firmly rooted to the ground.I would'nt like to be in the way of power that starts in the legs and is transfered through the body into the hands.
this video is not stupid at all. Thanks for putting it up. Why not question the technique? Only idiots go through life believing in everything from faith. The same kind of people that blindly follow gurus. Personally I think Tai Chi is a pretty decent system of self defense and can be very useful in grappling situations.
What's the meaning of this video? First, what we see CMC doing here certainly doesn't look like free fighting, but rather some demo or application of internal power principles. So how is the footage even relevant to the questions being asked in the video?! Secondly, everyone knows fighting is ultimately determined by mindset, not tiny technical details of external movements..
@jadewillow There isnt too many times you would ever want to use anything such as a double hand peng...It leaves you quite open...unless you were fighten a noob then they wouldnt even relize they coulda hit ya.
You would have to try it out yourself to see if it "does" something for you. I'm pretty sure that he had some experience in fighting competions. One of his students (Ben Lo) certainly did. From my experience in fixed-step push hands, most T'ai Chi techniques just make you look stupid, unless you do them EXACTLY right.
Understand the functions of Chi. Gathering Chi / Dispersing Chi. Opening Chi / Closing Chi. Raising Chi/ Lowering Chi. The functions of the body mechanic must align with the functions of Chi. In learning fundamental concepts in Taichi we have to seek to understand these governing principles.
I am a taichi newbie. So in my "not very humble" opinion: First he wrenches his hand using the coiling power, at the same time he destroys opponents balance, two stabs with fist that stop before reaching his opponent and the last funny movement looks like one of the chen postures "Six Sealing Four Closing"
i have wondered my self how good CMC was. some guys put on a big show of push hands fajin power and some use tai chi more like a hard style. if CMC can really fight with tai chi then i would expect more conservative jin power with more sensible boxing tactics. i am not seeing him demo great fajin power or good boxing skill. i don't know. i could justify what he is doing or could question what he is doing. i really just don't know what CMC was really capable of.
TaiChi sends out force after in contact with the opponent so forces won't be lost when u move ur hands and it's harder for the opponent to dodge. That's why it looks soft b/c you don't need to store force when ur hands aren't on ur opponent.
In my opinion the opponent has come forward, Prof. Cheng then uses the opponents retreat or pull back to power to fuel his punch strike, the so called meaningless posture afterward is to cast of the extra power so not to fire it into the training partner and cause harm... least that's my interpretation.
a punch from 'whiskers' meant death. he was a REAL fighter, but even more, a true master of the five excellences. he had gong fu and so did many of his students.
Won a lot...Lost a few on the main land) Few would challenge him in Taiwan. Most talked trash about him after he left to America. A lot of his student entered into full contact tournaments and did really well...
His style is softer than most of the Yang Chen fu disciples ..but that could be because he was smaller than most and really relied on the Yin (softness) instead of the Yang (hardness)
Taijquan is about mastering both Yin and Yang...Chen Man Ching preferred the Yin over the Yang
I don't know about death...but he was a fighter in his youth. I come down from the Chen wei Ming linage and even we have some stories of Chen Man Ching's being a scrapper.
IMHO it is a trainings video. When u train, u try to avoid to really hit your partner. So you will break the attack at some point. The point why it may look funny is, that his movements are still in the soft way, like it should be in tai chi (think always in circles ;)
I'm no expert in tai chi, but I think this is push hands, which is a drill, not a combat application.
To me it looks like he throws a very quick punch and pulls it so as not to hurt his partner, the next movement seems like just a reaction to pulling the punch.
Most tai chi techniques seem to almost infer or imply their result through their own elegance, a bit like logic. For example, Single Whip virtally demands a strike to the shoulder or side. The technique in the video did not infer its result. But then, Cheng Man Ching was a prodigious internal martial artist.
there are many things not easily visible with someone like chen man ching, because he practices an internal art. If u don;t know what to look for, you wont see it. I'm not making excuses for him, actually as ihave watched his vids my estimation of his ability has declined. i can't say i'd do it like him but i'm not in a position to comment a lot here as there isn't enough to go on. i will say that if u control yr opponent, what else u do is at your leisure.
my friend there are more senses than your sight:) seeing on very low quality video for a fraction of a sec is also not nearly the same as seeing in real life. I personally don't think it looks good either but its so hard to say considering the above.
the move you cite as meaningless is, in my opinion, most likely a way of taking the opponent's mind. when CMC's hand goes up, Tam rises in response. William C.C. Chen teaches a similar way of working with the interconnection between two people engaged in martial dynamics.
My 2 cents...you see the hidden punch? just at about 14s. look at the leg and the hand combination. It forms a straight line that could punch right throught the chess. Of course, Master Cheng didn't do it.. thats why it looks meaningless..
CMC was an actual fighter with a fearsome reputation. Why do people think they know more than he does?
jacksawild 1 week ago
@jacksawild He had never had a real fight. All so-called fights were demo only.
georgehsliew 3 days ago
This is just my opinion. From the second move, the old master could execute a lot of power. But he does not follow through.
colaFRank 2 weeks ago
@colaFRank His student could strike back well before the master could follow through under such circumstances.
georgehsliew 2 weeks ago
@georgehsliew imo - The first move is a fast move, "weakening the armor"; it does not do much damage, but is strong enough to "dent" the opponent, leaving him vulnerable to a more powerful secondary move.
There are more options, but (for me), the second move would have been a swift, powerful kick with the right leg towards the bladder area. The master's stance seems to lend its self to it.
The second move would follow the first fluently and (as said) with quite a bit of force.
colaFRank 2 weeks ago
@colaFRank Thank you. I like your comments.
georgehsliew 2 weeks ago
@georgehsliew You're welcome, sir.
colaFRank 2 weeks ago
@georgehsliew, i think youre right with the denting, and if he had followed through and dented his opponent the upward whipping movements would catch opponent in the throat as he doubled over. I have studied martial arts for over 20 years and chinese internal arts for 12 years, and it is obvious that this is shown as a demo. If they were used for real they would be a lot closer, but if they did them at that range no one could see what was going on.
massivezen7 3 hours ago
@colaFRank Thank you.
georgehsliew 2 weeks ago
@colaFRank It is not Wing Chun. It is a demonstration of a structure. If one assumes a melee in frames, this is one frame. I like the whipping energy. The raised hands are probably defensive for a counterattack, much like the opening in the Yang Style form: a double inside deflection with a downward blow or lap sau then downward double palm strike. NO, NO, NO.... he was just happy to punch his student... that's it.
tjm167x 5 days ago
@tjm167x I'm not sure I understand that last bit, tjm.
colaFRank 3 days ago
@colaFRank injecting levity...
tjm167x 3 days ago
In my earliest days of T'ai Chi study, I had firsthand experience of Professor Cheng's ability, and I can assure all the haters and critics of this clip that no one I ever met could lay a hand on him unless he invited them to do so for demonstration purposes. He was completely rooted and centered, and blindingly fast. You'd be flying backward before you even knew you'd been touched. In the 40 years since then, I've met a lot of "masters," but I've never met anyone who surpassed his skill.
ShenSpirit 1 month ago
the commantary on this video is stupid
louidoggify 1 month ago
Oops. 'Separate RIGHT Foot.' Sorry. Watch and learn anyway.
taichiapprentice 1 month ago
This is a combination move. Deflect and punch is obvious. The next move is, 'Separate Left Foot (Y'u Fen Chio.)' This is a move my sifu used to irreverently call, 'Poke 'em in the eyes, Kick 'em in the Balls and Blow 'em out the door.' If Tam Gibbs (that was his name, by the way) had any 'forward intent' his pelvis bone was going to be sore. The Professor just stopped short of throwing the kick. Master C.M.C. earned his chops the 'old school' way before WWII. Watch and learn.
taichiapprentice 1 month ago
@taichiapprentice Tam Gibbs should have strikde with his left hand before CMC could do anything.
georgehsliew 1 month ago
@georgehsliew With enough 'if, then' statements we might convince ourselves we could put all of Shanghai inside a bottle. This is a 'demo' and not a real fight, or even san shou practice. Next time you go out to spar, have someone make a video. Analyze that video with the same critical eye. If, if, if...
taichiapprentice 1 month ago
@taichiapprentice That's how learned.
georgehsliew 1 month ago
i think all you people think to much . dont over analyze . (practice)
jingpunch 1 month ago
@jingpunch Thank you for the comment. You need time to think and you need time to practice. Also, you need to know what other people think, too. That's how I learn.
georgehsliew 1 month ago
I do not have alot of expierience in this. Only practicing a year now. Guys, this is not a real fight. The last move is not realy realevant as it is just a holding back, a sideways release of energy. I think that in a real fight, this would have turned into a hit in the neck. It would keep flowing, here it is stopped and therefore not totaly natural. He also does'nt want to hurt his student so its only fair that he holds back. What goes down comes back up...
RubenFlamand 2 months ago
@RubenFlamand Good thinking.
georgehsliew 2 months ago
I think you don't see what's happening.
To me it looks pritty direct, effective and simple.
In the beginning the attacker has his both hand on Cheng.(To grap or push him)
He turns with his hip his hand out, and punch back.(Turning the hip)
I believe he's even doing another "strike" on the throat. (You also could do a strike on the head.)
When you see the guy in the end doing the "meaningless move", he already got away and punched the guy.
yyekcim 2 months ago
The move after the punch is what seals the deal. lol
nerlind 3 months ago
@nerlind
lol
georgehsliew 3 months ago
if you want to see what this move is used for: look at their hip fold
and then keep at it until you are 60 years, and you may feel a little gratitude.
wangchentsogyal 5 months ago
@wangchentsogyal
Thanks. But I am 71 now. I've been doing tai chi since 1962.
georgehsliew 5 months ago
@georgehsliew I doubt that. The difference is amazing. But if you mean it is not as simple to use then yes but it is more effective this I know. Much more painful too. I know.
LordBarron100 6 months ago
@LordBarron100
Thanks. Try it and you'll get the answer.
georgehsliew 5 months ago
chicky chicky boom boom! dat shit is so waist full!!!! you are right george... why punch when we can make love, he should have done the last move first and made it become a hug!
stupidkid915 7 months ago
@stupidkid915
You are right. His last move is good for hugging. But when facing an enemy, a straight punch will break his nose. I'll tell you more when you become a smart kid.
georgehsliew 7 months ago
@georgehsliew
don't hold your breath... I will never be as smart and genius as you :)
sinserely,
Stupidkid
stupidkid915 7 months ago
@stupidkid915
Sorry to hear that.
georgehsliew 6 months ago
@stupidkid915 You do not understand the Tao. You are laughing about it. And this is because the Tao is what it is. If you were not laughing about it, it would not be the Tao anymore.
NarmolanyaoOo 5 months ago
@NarmolanyaoOo
thank you for understanding the Tao for me... and thanks for speaking about the Tao so that I will be able to pin point it and put it in a jar for sale on Ebay
stupidkid915 5 months ago
@stupidkid915 I did not speak about the Tao. I just quoted what a master said.
NarmolanyaoOo 5 months ago
@NarmolanyaoOo
its OK lets be friends why argue? I was just calling this guy out because he thinks he knows everything, and is very negative towards other teachers, even attacking what they do just from youtube :) I didnt mean create another BS youtube argument just got sucked in... My bad
stupidkid915 5 months ago
@stupidkid915 Wait. Who is "this guy"? I thought you were criticizing Master Cheng Man Ch'ing ^^'
NarmolanyaoOo 5 months ago
@NarmolanyaoOo
I am talking about the person who posted this video to criticize Cheng man Ch'ing... he posts videos like this pointing out things he thinks are wrong in other teachers... so my comment to him was saying in a sarcastic manner that he is "right" and cheng man ching should hug people first before hitting them. it was a play on the way he criticizes people... then the uploader caught on to my sarcasm and attacked me back. I have respect for Cheng man Qing
stupidkid915 5 months ago
@stupidkid915 Oh, i did not understand it at all. Sorry, my english is not perfect ^^' I apologize
NarmolanyaoOo 5 months ago
I think your a complete idiot who has very little, or no knowledge of Gong Fu.
Anyone with an artistic eye can see the elasticity from one move to the next. The final position as the hands raise shows readiness for another series of forward, or downwards strikes.
jake8808 7 months ago
@jake8808
Silly guy says silly thing. lol
You're so funny. Hahaha !!!
georgehsliew 7 months ago
his left hand is free why doesnt he just punch him in the face??
taichinat 7 months ago
@taichinat
Good question. That's my line, too.
georgehsliew 7 months ago
The last move you see where he briefly raises his arms is a part of the rest of his move. The energy build-up already begins where he shakes the attackers arm off, that energy could have been built up to a straight punch right after his arms come down again in the end of the technique - this is why the last move looks like it has no purpose. In my opionion it only looks that way because Cheng Man Ching doesn't continue his defense.
JohnofNub 7 months ago
@JohnofNub Qi can only use for demonstration, not for real fight.
georgehsliew 7 months ago
@maezumi I wish I could.
georgehsliew 7 months ago
@georgehsliew Check the videos by Baguamaweiqi, you wont believe them or the things that he does but his lineage is from Shi Chongying an extremely respected TCM in China. If you want to take a trip to China and feel this for yourself let me know, I can let them know your coming. The school is locate in Dongguan, just south of Hong Kong.
TheCrazyHairPianist 7 months ago
@TheCrazyHairPianist Just checked the videos, it has nothing to do with qi or "jing". It is merely techniques. I have seen many many so-called qi or "jing" demonstrations. They are nothing but techniques. These kind of skills will not work in real fight. That's why there are seldom any Tai Chi fighters in the fighting rings. Don't take me wrong, I believe Tai Chi is one of the numerous schools of Chinese martial arts, but it's nothing as superior as those so-called masters demonstrate.
georgehsliew 7 months ago
@georgehsliew Any tool is useful if you know how to use it. Become an expert and you shall see.
JohnofNub 7 months ago
@JohnofNub
Agree that any tool is useful. But which tool works better is the consideration.
georgehsliew 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
At a glance, rather than express his qi into the student as he punches, he withdraws the qi as he pulls his hand back, disperses it into the air using the 'meaningless' movement and then grounds himself at the end.
Ogami187 8 months ago
At a glance, rather than express his qi into the student as he punches, he withdraws the qi as he pulls his hand back, disperses it into the air using the 'meaningless' movement and then grounds himself at the end.
Ogami187 8 months ago
@Ogami187 Very good imagination.
georgehsliew 8 months ago
@georgehsliew My teacher used to make the same kinds of movements when demonstrating a technique, especially when concrete was being struck with a sledge hammer on his back or stomach. Rather than absorb the force into himself he would redirect the energy out his arms or down his legs into the ground. Having been on the receiving end of qi strikes during demonstrations, believe me it is much better to have your teacher flap his arms like a bird rather than focus his energy inside your body.
Ogami187 8 months ago
@Ogami187
The so-called qi and marvelous internal strength only exist in believers’ thought. No tai chi masters, now and then, have ever proved to be real. If the qi and strength are real, the masters would be the world champs in the martial art world. I want to believe that, but who can prove it?
georgehsliew 7 months ago
@georgehsliew Sorry mate, I can't help you there but hopefully one day, you get the opportunity to experience something that will open your eyes to a whole other world.
Ogami187 7 months ago
@Ogami187 I really hope so.
georgehsliew 7 months ago
有道理，不敢恭维曼青先生推手，其拳架也未能形于手指。
iowataiji 8 months ago
The real effective and beautiful move in this clip is how the master broke the grip. The rest may be just demonstrating possible following up movements. Without direct explanation from the master (no audio in the clip), we can only guess this or that. Especially the opponent is just standing there with no move. It is hardly giving us any clue.
joshao1 8 months ago
hi shamanstevev, yes i see what you mean..you could be correct...it's too bad the video ends where it does...but he could be setting up for shoulder stroke..absolutely right! by the way shamanstevev i have learned some tai-chi...not much though i would agree, but only from the best.. master sing ong..best student of master huang, who, in turn, beat cheng mang ching in a closed door session, thereby handing on the mantle of tai-chi to Huang... take that cow-boy$%##
kingofaikido 9 months ago
awesome, thx for makin this video RIP Professor Cheng
Kbo3o3 11 months ago
@Kbo3o3
I am glad you like it.
georgehsliew 8 months ago
This move is like an eagle ready to swoop down and stop anything that comes. Since nothing came he relaxed into a different posture. It is common in the internal fighting arts to hold your hands high. From that position you can use your weight and gravity to your advantage. Everything that this man does has a martial arts application. Keep an open mind and see all the possibilities.
cuz5119 11 months ago
Its not so much the video that raises questions, its the replies...
teapotmonk 1 year ago
the entire section is his "dancing" with the partner's intent - his body is loose but ready to explode - the first move is simple, snapping downward through the oponent's "eye of the tiger: - (that area between the forefinger and thumb - the only opening in the hand) - he is able to escape - the result of that movement has his escaping hand chambered back, ready to punch - the last movement, in my opinion, is merely his finishing the dance - his energy is still flowing - he is completing flow
sifucarr 1 year ago
the truth is he's made a mistake and put too much into the push-punch and pull-back... this is why he has almost fallen over backwards...
he's raising his arms just to get back on balance...and to keep from falling backwards..
kingofaikido 1 year ago
@kingofaikido Obviously you know very little if anything about Tai Chi Chuan of Professor Cheng Man Ching. The movement at the end is set-up for shoulder stroke should the attacker be martially proficient. If you knew ANYTHING about Cheng, you would know (if not SEE ) that his form in combat is flawless. Having no Tai Chi backround(obvious from the ignorance in what you see) what-so-ever, you have no chance to understand the energies that are being transferred. Should you find ...
shamanstevev 9 months ago
Pourquoi ce poser la question de l'efficacité de cette application martiale puisqu'ils ont tous des pistolets :-))
sopathierry 1 year ago
A lot of philosophy and Eastern mumbo jumbo but no clear explanation, but it looks like he's setting up for a very precise punch but a lot of Chinese master found out that the umph factor had to be adjusted for bigger stronger western frames but some of this stuff does work you just have to find the right technique and apply it and knowledge is for all who seek it.
TheDano1947 1 year ago
damn the old man could move!
TLMcKinzie5601 1 year ago
Your enemy is your ignorance that keeps you asleep. Keep sleeping. True knowledge is not for everyone anyways.
smr144 1 year ago
@smr144
Please keep that in mind.
georgehsliew 1 year ago 3
@georgehsliew Im uncertain but What I see Is the initial punch which he fills the front leg with some weight,then his hips rollback and forwards again to deliver the second strike-his arms do seem to flay wildly but i think its a split judging by the timing-but its just a guess-can we know his mind
abraxnos 1 year ago
@smr144 well then, when you wake up, please tell us about 'true knowledge' Master Teacher smr144, our ears are ablaze w/ curiosity
hey everybody the high priest of 'true knowledge' is gonna shine a light on our unworthy souls, then he might jump up and do a round house flip kick, to show us all were it's really at
jawneeshow101 1 year ago
@jawneeshow101 For the benefit of those who are serious about finding a knowledgeable teacher of an internal art, not necessary a famous one with lots of schools, I can recommend the following Masters: Sifu H. Won Gim (NYC), Vincent and Gordon Chu (Boston), Sifu Mougdis (FL), Dr. Michael Guen (CA). I am simply a student who is now starting to see the glimpses of this great Art. But there is a lot of confusing information out there and this CMC video is an example of that.
smr144 1 year ago 7
@smr144 Can you recommend a sifu in Ohio?
lebarosky 10 months ago
@lebarosky Unfortunately, I do not know about any good Tai Chi Chuan Sifu in Ohio. But if you are willing to travel like me, I recommend you to go to NYC. Check this out website out: nytaichi dot com slash curriculum and look at the videos. Currently, I live in Fairfax, VA and I go to NYC on the weekends to continue learning from SIFU Gim. But I do it because this is the real deal.
smr144 10 months ago
@smr144 for those who are serious, practicing every day is advised
jawneeshow101 1 month ago
The first move bought him time enough for a second move, plus it really hurt and destabilized the opponent. The second move begins with a high guard that appears to be developing into a hit to the face. The opponent reacts to this, leaving his nether regions wide open. Suddenly the arm drops... If I was doing that, I'd follow with a half step forward, eagle claw the balls, pull as hard as I can and finish with a left hand palm strike to the nose or the jaw. KO. Thank you for your cooperation.
jannevellamo 1 year ago
All physical push... No peng-jing. Really folks, do you think that Yang Lu-Chang, The Invincible, was undefeated in the fighting capital of the world -Beijing- of mid 19th century by doing this????? Give me a break...
smr144 1 year ago
Comment removed
jawneeshow101 1 year ago
@jawneeshow101 I do practice the Original Art as practiced by the Yang family lineage and not as the clown/alcoholic of CMC. Go test yourself on the streets to see if what you are learning serves you well or a waste of time/$.
smr144 1 year ago
@smr144 practice makes perfect and ego is your enemy
NO charge
jawneeshow101 1 year ago
@smr144 I would not prefere to test on the streets, as tai chi is one of the most brutal martiial arts. It's meant to kill, and kill fast.
AlchemistRubensis 10 months ago
Comment removed
jawneeshow101 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@smr144 um, the whole point of Tai Chi is using NO more then 4 ounces of physical force. If i punched you in testical, as you were moving toward me with a little punch like that, you'd fall down, out of breath.
Give ME break! If you sincerely practiced the art, you wouldn't be so ignorant
jawneeshow101 1 year ago
His parry and punch are right on time. The next move, which is withdraw (double ward off) and push (but only the first half), works as a sort of temporary guard and counter to possible re-attack by the opponent to Man Ching's initial attack. It only looks strange because they froze the frame on it. He would move on from there to a new ready posture or follow up with the push.
BadgeMan911 1 year ago
when is one most vulnerable to attack?
after a strike...
what should one do, after one has struck and now there is an opening and a TARGET for one's opponent?
jawneeshow101 1 year ago
Comment removed
jawneeshow101 1 year ago
from perspective of the heart mind it doesn't seem so meaningless
Cutedervish 1 year ago
He looks like he's flapping his arms like a bird unable to fly
bovinicide 1 year ago
@bovinicide
Interesting comments.
georgehsliew 1 year ago
that last move seems to be to deflect any counters.
i like how you are still studying the older martial artist.
*bow*
Bebopchiflow 1 year ago
@Bebopchiflow Thank you for watching.
georgehsliew 1 year ago
it is a CRANE move
jawneeshow101 1 year ago
@jawneeshow101
Interesting.
georgehsliew 1 year ago
the extra move is a CRANE move
jawneeshow101 1 year ago
No real effect in combat.
Though you knew all tactics unless you have strenght you are done, friend
NAVEGANTE1900 1 year ago
Then I would be interested to hear your ideas. His position, movement and action is consistent with the form.
Allen2saint 1 year ago
Isn't the "extra move" the start of the form called "raising hands"? Clearly, it sends a wave of motion through the body, which, if he is attacked again, he can use as he is keeping in a fixed position, and not moving his feet. So, it's just physics, right?
Allen2saint 1 year ago
@Allen2saint
Thank you for the comments.
georgehsliew 1 year ago
@Allen2saint
No.
georgehsliew 1 year ago
Do you pay attention if you play fighting with the kid?
Just think whz I mean. >,<
Ginkung 1 year ago
no offense, but u guys are dancing, not fighting -> there's no uses at all in combat....
langthangism 1 year ago
CMC was never beaten or surpassed by any martial arts form. If we cannot see the sense in what he did, it is a deficiency in our perception. Someone with absolute certainty in what he does has no need to take chances but for the less experienced to copy might be taking a chance. Thank you for the clip.
ArturoDekko 1 year ago
Is you ready to step to the master though george? Aite then.
Jubeski 1 year ago
15: damn he's fast.
joelito101 1 year ago
@joelito101
You must be kidding.
georgehsliew 1 year ago
@georgehsliew Dude, he whips his hand so fast the video only shows 1 frame of movement, I've seen people punch fast, but this is FAST!
joelito101 1 year ago
The move could have been more direct, his left hand is already on a trajectory towards his opponents exposed face at the same moment he whips his Right hand from the grip. A footwork shuffle would have given his left hand stability and a base to apply force from. However, his right hand whips from the grip, twisting his body which then bounces back toward the opponent. Even if he hadn't broken the hold, the bounce would have uprooted his opponent and could have turned into a lock, throw or break
jacksawild 1 year ago
I think I see two punches
fondueset01 1 year ago
Just to clear the doubt of many, please let me explan why CMC swung his both arms before he punched. It was his way of losen up muscle and warming up his two arms before he punched. He let his CHI to flow down to his fingertips before he negotiated more effective punch. Undoubtedly the late CMC was a legend and his TAI CHI is unquestionable.
paihepaulchew 1 year ago
Surprised he punched so simply and with finality? Most others would have created the Tao Te Ching or something. Most effective and a killing blow. Oh, and who gives a hoot about how much of a bad ass he was and how much people liked him and all that silly political crap, the man is a legend so live with it, already.
Angel
theangelrules007 1 year ago
I met CMC in 1950s in Penang,Malaysia. He brought with him two of his favourite students Wang and Yip who subsequently became very popular TaiChi teachers in Malaysia. I was told that practice of Tai Chi should move the whole body as one. When you look at CMC's hands at the same time you should look at his body and legs as well then you will find some meaning in it. When I saw CMC in Penang he was very strong and firm.
paihepaulchew 1 year ago
@paihepaulchew
Thank you for the info.
georgehsliew 1 year ago
In my opinion true yang style Taiji tends to avoid such obvious movement.
GOG777 1 year ago
@GOG777 Thank you for your comments. I like your videos, too.
georgehsliew 1 year ago
@georgehsliew It feels good to hear you say that. I notice that you practice the "square form" I've always been curious about that style would you ever consider making a video about its history and special characteristics?
GOG777 1 year ago
@GOG777
I am retired and spending more time line dancing.
georgehsliew 1 year ago
@georgehsliew A master would say that rather than reveal his secrets I suppose ;-) I also enjoy occasional line dancing, I liked those videos too.
GOG777 1 year ago
@GOG777 I don't really have any secret. A little surprised to learn that you love line dancing, too.
rita2130 1 year ago
@georgehsliew
Line dancing actually has some of the same benefits of tai chi and some consider it to be more fun! ;-)
ThirdEyeLight 1 year ago
Since he never fought anybody we'll never know if his stuff worked or not. Personally I'm not a huge CMC fan, but thats because I learned Tai Ji in mainland China. Nobody seems to like that guy over here.
GOG777 1 year ago
Look grasshoppa....it IS a wardoff!. The opponent loses contact and control. Cheng can strike. He seems to have balance and opponent does not. Am I wrong? I think not.
fairman1952 1 year ago
this is not a fight...it's a demo for people who have studied with him /really know about those "seemingly meaningless" moves. Think distraction/ multiple opponents / and more;)
qimassage 1 year ago
To me this video shows the quality of elasticity and explosive power that Cheng's body can produce. He can whip himself however he wants. Very powerful and scary. Not sparring, not a technique demo, but liquid power. Mike
HYPNOSISWORKS123 1 year ago
Well, the hit certainly didnt do anything to the opponent.
thecubeisyou 1 year ago
@thecubeisyou
it wasn't meant to...that is a friend/student of his...used as a demo;)
qimassage 1 year ago
(cont)To me it appears to be a second punch coming out of the natural continuation of the previous issue(both of which are exploiting the center line being left open) but is instead being wound down in his body since the student is already backing off in a confused manner.
bodiddly83 1 year ago
Perhaps you gauge the risk differently. From your comments here and in the other video you seem like an intelligent fighter with limited exposure to PCMC Tai Chi theory. I will attempt to explain what my limited skills can inerpret from this to help your genuine curiosity. The hand escaping is a simply a clear. Shaking off of a booger in a way. You seem mostly curious about the move after the punch(the punch seems very nice to me btw).
bodiddly83 1 year ago
or me the most important thing in fighting is a gook connection with the ground.A practitioner who is rooted to the ground can defeat one who is not.You get there through practicing forms correctly.Cheng in this video is firmly rooted to the ground.I would'nt like to be in the way of power that starts in the legs and is transfered through the body into the hands.
karlcrawford 1 year ago
I think that is that movement maked perfect sense if done with a knife against someone that is preventing from being stabbed by grabbing you arm.
DrSiegal 1 year ago
都唔知做乜，其實係唔係跳舞？
kmkm363 1 year ago 2
this video is not stupid at all. Thanks for putting it up. Why not question the technique? Only idiots go through life believing in everything from faith. The same kind of people that blindly follow gurus. Personally I think Tai Chi is a pretty decent system of self defense and can be very useful in grappling situations.
beginnersgambling 1 year ago
What's the meaning of this video? First, what we see CMC doing here certainly doesn't look like free fighting, but rather some demo or application of internal power principles. So how is the footage even relevant to the questions being asked in the video?! Secondly, everyone knows fighting is ultimately determined by mindset, not tiny technical details of external movements..
piaten 1 year ago
Thanks for your comments.
georgehsliew 1 year ago
The hands coming up... Its not a wasted movement..
The arms come up to deflect a counter to his head or to his chest
Its a Double Peng! (wardoff) which would quickly explode into An (push or double palm strike)
jadewillow 1 year ago 11
@jadewillow There isnt too many times you would ever want to use anything such as a double hand peng...It leaves you quite open...unless you were fighten a noob then they wouldnt even relize they coulda hit ya.
JWPMAN1 9 months ago
I have trained with Ben Lo, and his senior sstudent Garrett chin. Who cares what uour opinion is
wdlander 2 years ago
You would have to try it out yourself to see if it "does" something for you. I'm pretty sure that he had some experience in fighting competions. One of his students (Ben Lo) certainly did. From my experience in fixed-step push hands, most T'ai Chi techniques just make you look stupid, unless you do them EXACTLY right.
2ndviolin 2 years ago
Understand the functions of Chi. Gathering Chi / Dispersing Chi. Opening Chi / Closing Chi. Raising Chi/ Lowering Chi. The functions of the body mechanic must align with the functions of Chi. In learning fundamental concepts in Taichi we have to seek to understand these governing principles.
pranakhan 2 years ago
The Punch is deceptive the power of the technique is hard to see , it's floating short power similar to the one inch punch made famous by Bruce Lee .
TonyChoice 2 years ago
I am a taichi newbie. So in my "not very humble" opinion: First he wrenches his hand using the coiling power, at the same time he destroys opponents balance, two stabs with fist that stop before reaching his opponent and the last funny movement looks like one of the chen postures "Six Sealing Four Closing"
mamrdi4all 2 years ago 2
i have wondered my self how good CMC was. some guys put on a big show of push hands fajin power and some use tai chi more like a hard style. if CMC can really fight with tai chi then i would expect more conservative jin power with more sensible boxing tactics. i am not seeing him demo great fajin power or good boxing skill. i don't know. i could justify what he is doing or could question what he is doing. i really just don't know what CMC was really capable of.
wagfinpis 2 years ago 2
TaiChi sends out force after in contact with the opponent so forces won't be lost when u move ur hands and it's harder for the opponent to dodge. That's why it looks soft b/c you don't need to store force when ur hands aren't on ur opponent.
s80520 2 years ago
Comment removed
Blugrazz 2 years ago
In my opinion the opponent has come forward, Prof. Cheng then uses the opponents retreat or pull back to power to fuel his punch strike, the so called meaningless posture afterward is to cast of the extra power so not to fire it into the training partner and cause harm... least that's my interpretation.
sheldnz 2 years ago
something is wrong with the video for me. no matter how many times i reload it, the video has stops and does not show what is intended
shpoffo 2 years ago
Hope you'll solve the problem soon.
georgehsliew 2 years ago
a punch from 'whiskers' meant death. he was a REAL fighter, but even more, a true master of the five excellences. he had gong fu and so did many of his students.
batalla9 2 years ago
@batalla9 Yes, I've also heard that Chen Man-Ching actually fought. So he was a real fighter. Now how did the fights go?
panchamkauns 2 years ago
Won a lot...Lost a few on the main land) Few would challenge him in Taiwan. Most talked trash about him after he left to America. A lot of his student entered into full contact tournaments and did really well...
His style is softer than most of the Yang Chen fu disciples ..but that could be because he was smaller than most and really relied on the Yin (softness) instead of the Yang (hardness)
Taijquan is about mastering both Yin and Yang...Chen Man Ching preferred the Yin over the Yang
jadewillow 1 year ago
I don't know about death...but he was a fighter in his youth. I come down from the Chen wei Ming linage and even we have some stories of Chen Man Ching's being a scrapper.
jadewillow 1 year ago
IMHO it is a trainings video. When u train, u try to avoid to really hit your partner. So you will break the attack at some point. The point why it may look funny is, that his movements are still in the soft way, like it should be in tai chi (think always in circles ;)
JohnSmoke420 2 years ago
Real demo shouldn't look funny.
georgehsliew 2 years ago
Cheng Manching was not a junk martial art teacher. He was a man on a deep mission. Something idiots living in the modern world cannot comprehend
sonofthedestroyer 2 years ago
Yes. Idiots always believe in something they don't understand.
georgehsliew 2 years ago
What I think is that:
First, his speed is amazing.
Second, we dont know what is the purpose of this 5 second scene, what are they practicing.
But this an internal martial art. Not a "10 day self defence class" - what is the best way to punch someone.
Like the way you put it. Take it easy.
Thanks for sharing dough.
greatsage2 2 years ago
Thank you for your comments.
georgehsliew 2 years ago
I'm no expert in tai chi, but I think this is push hands, which is a drill, not a combat application.
To me it looks like he throws a very quick punch and pulls it so as not to hurt his partner, the next movement seems like just a reaction to pulling the punch.
seadawg93 2 years ago
There are things at play in this video most people do not comprehend.
doctavious 2 years ago
The work of a master.
Chi will make you move more like nature.
Just like he did.
His spirit led, and body followed.
Omegatide 2 years ago
I respect your belief.
georgehsliew 2 years ago
Most tai chi techniques seem to almost infer or imply their result through their own elegance, a bit like logic. For example, Single Whip virtally demands a strike to the shoulder or side. The technique in the video did not infer its result. But then, Cheng Man Ching was a prodigious internal martial artist.
Tranxhead 2 years ago
How can George be so wise? So much wisdow in only one person! The world is so unfair!
igcoyote 2 years ago
there are many things not easily visible with someone like chen man ching, because he practices an internal art. If u don;t know what to look for, you wont see it. I'm not making excuses for him, actually as ihave watched his vids my estimation of his ability has declined. i can't say i'd do it like him but i'm not in a position to comment a lot here as there isn't enough to go on. i will say that if u control yr opponent, what else u do is at your leisure.
noksoocao 2 years ago
Thank you for your comments. I believe what I see.
georgehsliew 2 years ago
my friend there are more senses than your sight:) seeing on very low quality video for a fraction of a sec is also not nearly the same as seeing in real life. I personally don't think it looks good either but its so hard to say considering the above.
noksoocao 2 years ago
Thank you for your comments. I still believe what I see.
georgehsliew 2 years ago
the move you cite as meaningless is, in my opinion, most likely a way of taking the opponent's mind. when CMC's hand goes up, Tam rises in response. William C.C. Chen teaches a similar way of working with the interconnection between two people engaged in martial dynamics.
thewolfenone 2 years ago
Thanks for comments although I don't agree with you.
georgehsliew 2 years ago
Comment removed
zcz88 2 years ago
Please empty your cup before watching my videos.
georgehsliew 2 years ago
My 2 cents...you see the hidden punch? just at about 14s. look at the leg and the hand combination. It forms a straight line that could punch right throught the chess. Of course, Master Cheng didn't do it.. thats why it looks meaningless..
0210009 2 years ago