Stephen Harper on Democratic Protest and State Force (Libyan uprising / Toronto G20 Summit)

[2fatbunnys]

And also... FUCK NATO!

from Canada

[2fatbunnys]

NATO with the help of Canada's F-18 Bombers went into Libya to protect the "civilians" Peter Mackay our minister of defence assured us we would "get our share of the "PIE"

Is that what Libya is ? PIE to be sliced up ?

SHAME on us Mr Prime Minister SHAME....



[astroturf1000]

F*** KKkanada. What you should have learned is that the illusion of freedom only exists here until you challenge the status quo. Once we resist, the state shows its true colours (no matter which shitty party is in power).

Recognize your privilege as white settlers on stolen native land. The privilege you have as being of a certain class and that "Oh Canada" has been a destructive, colonial racist project that only benefits the wealthy, white ruling class from the beginning.

[aristurtle1]

We need a Ron Paul in Canada.

[kimhunter2]

he's doing the same thing in Canada

[Jeromepower4ever]

that nasty fucker, one day you will pay Stephen Harper ! you will pay 4 all the nasty things you did. I can't believe you talk about democracy while your starting wars 4 money and treating your ppl like shit.

don't forget karma, you jerk

[EF2000CanFly]

We love Harper! Submit to authority or you rebels will be crushed!

[EF2000CanFly]

We love Harper!

[imamymay]

hypocrite harper is soldier of new world order. get used to it. will get much worse before it gets better. thanks for voting CPC. anyone who voted CPC is a blind sheep ahole...or in on the govt sell out bs.

[ReelsOnWheels88]

disgusting. what was Canada thinking re-electing that fool? I'm ashamed that actually happened in my province, and what's more, in a neighbouring city to my own.

[m1racle3]

@scottweise18. That was the longest fucking run on sentence I've ever read.

You'd assume by eighteen you'd learn punctuation.

[scottweise18]

@m1racle3 Yea and all of its true . Seriously ? LOL Who cares about punctuation . Ur just mad because I'm right . =) .

[scottweise18]

@m1racle3 But w/e u go ahead and be Harper's little lap dog . Be one of his conservative puppets . =) . And live in ignorance .

[scottweise18]

@m1racle3 And another thing I'm not 18 . I aint telling you wat age Iam .

[davieboy102]

You can't draw parallels between these two situations. I hate Steve and won't be voting for him, but to compare the G20 to the crises in Libya does a great disservice to those being killed in Libya by their government. Harper at the g20 was brutal to Canadians, but he never used planes to drop bombs...

[Keinlicht]

@davieboy102 Jesus christ how thick is that skull? Did you not even bother to read the description, or the uploader comments?

The intention was to show that Steven Harper has no grounds on which to argue as a human rights advocate, since the only security operation he's had to run for himself cost $1 billion dollars and it broke damn near every law it could. A comparison between 'rhetoric' and 'record'.

[scottweise18]

@davieboy102 No but he denied these people the freedom to excercise their rights as Canadian citizens and in doing so he cracked down on freedom of assembly and freedom of speech and freedom of expression; three of the most sacred rights that any true democracy would hold dear .

[scottweise18]

@davieboy102 And if you listen to the opinions of the detained they were treated inhumanely even after they were arrested, being put into squabbled 6 foot shitty prison cells--excuse the language-- some of them being kept there for days . I thought I heard one girl say there was no bathroom in the cell and she was held there for two days straight and she was only given two sandwiches to eat the entire time . and one 50 year old lady had a weak kidney and since there was no toilet she had to pee

[scottweise18]

@davieboy102 all over the floor because she couldnt hold it in anymore . These ppl were denied their human rights and treated even worse off than animals . They were treated as sub-human and its sickening . It doesnt matter how Harper is doing it, but the point is nothing is getting better with him and he refuses to acknowledge and address the issues of poverty . Because of him thousands of Canadians are without even the most basic needs like a home and/or health care .

[scottweise18]

@davieboy102 And then shit about a union with the US and Mexico . True or not he's not addressing the main issues in this country. He's lied about everything he said he was gonna do and how does he show his true colors ? He takes it out on the peaceful prtestors who some were not even blocking traffis while most of them were sitting peacefully on the side walk which according to our rights we have every right to without government permission or a permit . Freedom of assembly .

[JimiLaMort]

BRAVO! WELL DONE!

[AlypiusDC]

powerful footage, wow

[Sukoi49]

2:10 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH

[Marcownz747]

Shit like the G20 makes me wish the protesters had been massively armed. It is precisely because of G20 Torontanomo that made me hate the police, no matter their claimed affiliation.

[SonOfOuranos]

The actions in Toronto at the G20 were those of tyrannical Government, not the Canada I know at all. I want Harper gone! He and his buddy Baird(leads my riding) have done NOTHING for Canada. They bought the election from the poor by taking away child care facilities in exchange for $600. Harper knows the It's the economy stupid rule of politics well and being he is an economist it will be difficult to get Canada to vote him out sadly. Toronto was a disgrace, maybe Libya is Harper as a real man!

[Sokar27]

Well the worlds going to shit everyone needs to accepted that. And to bitch and complain about protracted being shot with rubber bullets is stupid being the ones in libya are getting shot with real ones. So it looks like my choice of were I ll be deployed come fall or next yr will be Libya or afghan so fun in the sun. My fiancé was already killed while deployed so y not got nothing else to live 4. Canadiens cracking down on protester I won't lie fun as hell Idk they had balls jkjk. But if ur no

[HollowFlight]

i was looking for a video on the violence in libya but this was....

something. it was something.

[TheThinkingsheep]

It's OVER. We're already under military rule. Are you a cop and disagree? What would happen if half the force was fired ?? How and where would YOU PROTEST ??

If you can see an US vs THEM, then it's already in place, no matter what side you're on. THERE ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE SIDES !!

Give a listen there rappers : Testament and Illogik.

[TheEchechech]

This video is completely out of context, the black bloc basically destroyed Toronto, they were not just simply protesting, they wanted anarchy in the streets, i'm SURPRISED the police responded the way they did, i'd have have arrested/smacked around a lot more people had I been them, and I'm from Toronto.

[Arretu]

@TheEchechech Yes. because all the people arrested were black bloc anarchists. All of them. Mass arrests are not the answer to a small minority of people causing problems. Not under a fair and just government, anyway...

[BoredomCorner]

@TheEchechech Except for one tiny problem: the cops only went after PEACEFUL protesters. They totally ignored the Black Bloc.

[CanadianReich]

@hanksnow82

I just watched a TV show on the G20 and am currently watching TV footage of ongoing revolutions and the government crackdowns.....

the only differences I see are the Candian police used rubber bullets (less lethal- still potentially lethal) instead of real ones.

[hanksnow82]

@CanadianReich Really ? I must have missed the cops riding in on camels swinging swords or the helicopter gunships or the F16s , but thanks for the laughs

[CanadianReich]

@hanksnow82 when bystanders, peaceful protesters and even non protesters are treated as if there is a state of martial law (which was actually told to these persons), tossed in 10* 20 cages with no food or water/ lawyer/phone call/ rights read- nothing for 12 hours, beaten, strip searched, maced.......without any provocation. Prostetic limbs stolen, draged around on the concrete by your arms, head bashed..........

Police making up "fake" laws as they go etc.

Same as any other tyrany

[hanksnow82]

@CanadianReich Did you see the wack jobs that have been drawn to and the bull shit that has gone on at every G20 conference they have evrer held ? What the hell did you think was going to happen if you went down there ? Sheeeesh

[CanadianReich]

@hanksnow82

I wasnt there.

We do have rights though, including the right to gather, the right to free speach, and the right to protest. G20 or not we shouldnt "expect" to have these things denied just for showing up

[hanksnow82]

@CanadianReich I will ask one more time . Did you not see what happened at very other G20 ? What did you think was going to happen at the Toronto G20 ?

[BoredomCorner]

@hanksnow82 And just because every other dictator's done what Harper's done, that makes it okay for him to do it too?

[BoredomCorner]

@hanksnow82 This coming from the troll who thinks that anyone with a non-conservative point, is a lunatic or loser. You're not exactly credible.

[BoredomCorner]

@hanksnow82 Who says that you need those things to have martial law? You only need troops in the streets, ganging up on every day citizens -- and we had that.

[frosty848]

Opinions =/= FACTS. just saying :D

[frosty848]

Take back Canada? didn't know we lost it.

[TakeBackCanada]

@hanksnow82

Read the video description before you comment:

"The intended comparison in this video is NOT between Canada and Libya or Harper and Gaddafi but between Harper's rhetoric (standing up for democracy and human rights) and his record (mass detention, police brutality). The intent was to show how his condemnation lacks credibility because of his record on protecting civil rights."

[hanksnow82]

@TakeBackCanada Pleeeeez give it up .

[Livingvibe2]

His little speech about Libya?? LOL This is coming from the same idiot who mirrored the speech of Aussie Prime minister John Howard about 911. Which proves to me that everything that gets handed to him is scripted and u wanna talk about insensitive? Couldn't he find his own words coming from a Country supposedly deeply committed to Human rights, about the single most brutal attack on the west to date? Harper is a complete tool and IS hurting our country.

[steveo9001]

the sad part about all of it ... is most of those police officers believed what they did to be justice >.> fucking pathetic

[CanadianReich]

@steveo9001

I disagree.......

anyone who has their name tags covered up knows theyre doing wrong.

[steveo9001]

@CanadianReich alot of the police men that did illegal searchs and ID checks ... did so cause they thought it was what they had to do under the "public works act" or w.e it was ... that turned out to not exist ... police knew it was unconstitutional... but it was something they were told to enforce so they did it without question.

as for the beatings and not wanting to be identified . yes they did that on purpose so they couldnt get pinned for it. cause they wernt told to beat protesters.

[Benjabola]

lol at the comment that people at the g20 were protesting for no reason. @juxtap0zed is trolling. Even if you were watching the most mainstream news media outlets that weekend, you would know there were a number of different groups with a number of different reasons for protest, from the Ontario Coalition Against Poverty, to the unions, to the people upset about the waste of resources, to the tourists and more.

[juxtap0zed]

I wish there was a reply all. I want you all to take a look at the comment threads. And I want you to consider carefully. There is no denying that what happened to some of you at the G20, should never have happened. Certainly not in Canada. But I want you to take a look at this video, and the comment thread and identify one, and only one thing. You have, collectively, taken something truly world-altering. Truly remarkable. Both tragic and breathtaking. You have taken that thing. Libya. Egypt.

[juxtap0zed]

@juxtap0zed ... you have taken that thing; to which NOTHING in your short lives has yet compared. Something tragic, painful, remarkable, and world-changing... and you have made it about yourselves.

[m1racle3]

Police proved among their own ranks a sense of dissidence by taping off their names and numbers as to avoid identification. If they believed in what they were doing they would not have hidden themselves. In essence, while taping off their names to hide their identity, they themselves are doing the very thing they were arresting some of The protesters for.

[m1racle3]

I disagree completely. It does not matter what "police" use, the issue in the situation of the g20 is that people of peace in our society are permitted to speak their thoughts and concerns without having to face the threat of ANY resistance, being that no harm is done.

[m1racle3]

The incredible strength given to police via 1920's war act being reinstated waisn't to be on standby protecting the "world leaders" from imminent harm. It was orchestrated by our own two faced government (glorious and free), to set the agreed global standard on how to control its fiscal livestock.

[m1racle3]

Agreed there was a handful of disagreeable types with in the police vicinity, but one bully in school is not justification to cane every single student because you "can't differentiate the good from the bad".

[BoredomCorner]

@m1racle3 Try me again when the government, chief, and police board, aren't covering for said bullies.

[m1racle3]

Espescially, considering how well prepared and practiced the police were for every contingency,and somehow they were not able to contend with a handful of deviant that easily got away while peaceful protesters sitting cross legged in shorts and cut off tshirts singing the national anthem ( who were no threat to

[m1racle3]

the g20 members, police, nor property damage) were brutally attacked, detained, lied to, humiliated, and denied Canadian Charter of Rights, which we All should cling to with our very passion and hearts.

Governments world wide are backing full support for police adopting military tactics as it essentially utilizes immediate military responce to any and all civil disobedience. Of course this is needed as general populations are getting too fed up to simply sit back.

[scottweise18]

@m1racle3 And why shouldnt they ? To stand by another 2-3 years with Stephen Harper who's putting us further and further into debt and not doing anything about the poverty and the possible corruption of his government by not letting parliament see the official documents that will lead to the Afghan prisoners being abused and being allowed by our government even though parliament has the right to see those documents he's commiting a constitutional crisis becauee of it .

[scottweise18]

@scottweise18 that are showing our government is commiting war crimes excuse me . Not the soldiers but the government that is denying to protect the Afghan prisoners under the articles of the Geneva Conventiion .

[scottweise18]

@m1racle3 I agree things arent as bad as Libya I know that we dont have our own aircraft coming down to bomb us or the police using real bullets on us and only rubber ones, but still the fact that most of them were peaceful protestors preaching things as simple as peace or end poverty . And this is something to be silenced ? Why ? Because a bunch of anarchy morons cause some chaos then suddenly everyone's rights are cracked down on ? I just find it revolting and sick .

[scottweise18]

@m1racle3 Idk I mean I doubt we'll go Libya's way and talk about armed rebellion of course not . But with Stephen Harper back in there again I can honestly say that its only a matter of time before something's done . Those ppl did have a point to them being there: people that care can only take the injustice of this society for so long before, sometimes yes, they take drastic measures, but if this is what it means to make some sort of change for the better, I'd say a revolution is healthy

[scottweise18]

@m1racle3 once in awhile . And it should be even if its peaceful because these ppl deserve to be heard, especially if its about poverty .

[scottweise18]

@m1racle3 And also when the citizens of Toronto were detained they were treated more like animals . Many of them were put through atrocious experiences like I heard they were given proper clothing or dry towels to keep themselves warm or offered any sort of human needs such as bathrooms and given very little food while most of them were in there for up to two days or more . I wouldnt find something like that thinkable in Canada yet it happened as these ppl say it did . Isnt it shocking at all ?

[scottweise18]

@scottweise18 they werent given proper clothing or twels and were at times freezing completely ****

[scottweise18]

I can honestly say that this isnt the Canada Ive grown up with . I never saw this kinda stuff when I was a kid . I only started seeing this sort of stuff when Stephen Harper came in power .

[m1racle3]

in reality, power should always belong to The People. Government was was designed to be the voice, pulse and concerns of The People when negotiation with other nations.

Firing on people, with anything is wrong. If you justify firing on the protesters because that is what protesters get, it should also be argued that government should tread cautiously because we all know what the Lincolns get.

[m1racle3]

Why are comments saying "riots/protests"? They are distinctly different. The g20 was a protest. Firing on unarmed musicians in shorts is cowardly of any police association.

[paellaking]

During riots/protests, instead of firing tear gas at the crowds, why don't they fire laughing gas instead??!?

[Livingvibe2]

And weather you get hit by a rubber bullet or a real one by police the massage is still the same. Don't protest. Or this will happen to you even if you are not violent. The only reason they use rubber bullets is most likely because we are all stock and bond, we are worth tax money, not because they love us or give much of a shit. Im willing to bet if they were given the order to use live ammo some would have NO problem with that. At the end of the day Harper is STILL a bought off commie twit.

[Psy0psAgent]

Yea, Harpy boy, if its so outrageous, tell your policy enforcement to stop harassing and spying on this ex soldier and back off. Obey the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Courts signed by Canada on July 7, 2000 and quit stalling and give me a passport so I can just leave, to go live somewhere else.

[lobstermikey]

@Psy0psAgent I already put my money where my mouth is, and left Canada forever 4.75 years ago. I would rather live in a police state where the government is honest about everyone living in a police state, rather than live in Canada where everyone says, "Look how wonderful it is here, come one, come all, everything's fine!" when this kind of thing regularly happens. Welcome to Anarcho-Tyranny... Get used to it, it's only going to get a LOT worse... Honestly, emmigrating isn't bad at all. :-)

[pauliewaulieflimflam]

Excellent post, yes I want my Canada back too

I'm with ya

[Livingvibe2]

Dismissing a group of 1300 or so protesters to all be whiny suburban shit disturbers is not too bright, yes some didn't know the issues and jumped in, but, just because we can't get a few 100 cozy gov workers to get op off there ass and protest just so it "looks" legitimate" doesn't mean it's not. And yes they ARE heroes for taking the brutal beatings it took to expose this police state we are approaching. If some were not awake then, they will be now.

[lobstermikey]

@Livingvibe2 "...expose this police state we are APPROACHING"?... We were already there a really long time ago...

[LorenzoNadia]

NWO

[juxtap0zed]

"get on the sidewalk or be arrested!" Ohh noes! He told you where you can stand, and some of you got abrasions.

How DARE you compare yourselves to what's happening in Libya? Those people are being shot at by mercenary snipers for convening in groups. They haven't even been able to assemble in demonstration for 40 years. They were being bombed by jets.

Seriously, you sanctimonious, whiny little shit. Where do you get off?

[vaguelyreptilian]

@juxtap0zed It's significantly more than "abrasions," if you'd read the reports about the impromptu prisons, threats of rape, denial of medication to insulin dependent people, etc. Reporters were detained and assaulted. I could go on, but you've already decided you'll do everything in your power to deflect similarities.

It's true nobody was killed, but what happened is, in principle, not that different.

[juxtap0zed]

@vaguelyreptilian

It's not an issue of kind, but of orders of magnitude. People aren't 'being killed' they're being slaughtered wholesale by a madman's hired mercenaries.

I don't give a fuck. You do NOT stand yourself beside true martyrs when you get spanked for misbehaving.

[vaguelyreptilian]

@juxtap0zed And therein lies the flaw in your argument. the protestors did nothing illegal, they did not misbehave. Let me shut you up before you start about the black bloc, they were agents provocateurs inciting violence so the police could go out there and do the only thing they've ever been good at. Not the first time they've done it and not the last

Also: good to know you "don't give a fuck" about rape. Fucking meathead.

[juxtap0zed]

@vaguelyreptilian

"And therein lies the flaw in your argument." That's my favorite rebuttal. Seriously. Love it. Have you even taken a philosophy class? Do you know what an argument is?

Here is an argument: The order of magnitude is incomparable, and the comparison is disrespectful to Libyans, and their families. This has nothing to do with whether or not the G20 went down right, or whether the problems at the G20 need to be addressed.

[vaguelyreptilian]

@juxtap0zed No philosophy sadly. Double honours: Peace Education and Cultural Studies. So my rigid definitions aren't flawless. My absolute least sincere apologies.

[juxtap0zed]

@vaguelyreptilian I also take offence to the "Don't give a fuck about rape" comment. Especially since its an issue that's touched home on several occasions, and that I am an activist against. But how the heck did you get that I was arguing that the G20 wasn't it's own problem? The sum is: it's a disrespectful comparison. Especially given that this is an ongoing event. I'm an activist. I've been on national television getting fucked up by cops. I know how shitty it is. And I STILL think this...

[juxtap0zed]

... comparison is off the mark. 

[TakeBackCanada]

@juxtap0zed

What's happening in Libya is a gross violation of human rights. G20 Toronto was, by Canadian standards, a shocking violation of civil and human rights by our govt.

Obviously, Canada is not Libya. Harper is not Gaddafi. But since whens "I'm not as bad as Gaddafi" a justifiable excuse for brutalizing and suppressing your own citizens (to any degree)? What's next, Gaddafi saying "atleast I'm not Stalin?"

Protecting democracy and human rights starts at home. People in glass houses...

[juxtap0zed]

@TakeBackCanada

How did you get that I was saying "Harper did the right thing for the g20?"

I'm saying, the comparison is disrespectful. Period.

[TakeBackCanada]

@juxtap0zed

I sympathize with your point on disrespect and I thought about it before I started, which why I want to make clear that I'm not saying Canada is Libya or that Harper is Gaddafi.

The intended comparison in this video is NOT between Canada and Libya but between Harper's rhetoric (standing up for democracy and human rights) and his record (mass detention, police brutality). The intent was to show how his condemnation lacks credibility because of his record on protecting civil rights.

[juxtap0zed]

@TakeBackCanada I appreciate that there is a deep comparison being made, and following a well known media tool of comparing previous actions and statements to current ones.

But why would you wish to undermine his condemnation of this horrible event? That's like saying a bully isn't qualified to condemn a murderer. I see what you're getting at, and I agree with the message, but dude. Too soon. Too recent. Too brutal. It's just a poor choice of event to use to frame your juxtaposition.

[TakeBackCanada]

@juxtap0zed

I hear you but disagree. His condemnation was undermined by his record before he even opened his mouth. It offends me (and I suspect others too) to hear him try and represent himself as a democratic rights advocate. I think any position is undermined by having advocates on its side that are blatantly hypocritical. It's not a "the-more-the-merrier" type situation.

You say 'too soon', I say 'if not now, when?' Now is when hes trying to look Prime-Ministerial. I say 'We remember you.'

[TakeBackCanada]

@juxtap0zed

I agree with your point that it is a difference in degree and not of kind. Thanks to Harper's govt, after G20 Toronto, Canada is now on the same scale of state-on-citizen violence as Gaddafi's Libya. Admittedly, on a lower tier, but that is a scale that Canada should never even be on. Having put us there, Harper now has zero credibility on human rights, his condemnation wrings hollow and his defense of democratic protest is obviously insincere. Libyans need real allies.

[juxtap0zed]

@TakeBackCanada... compare us to China, Russia, fuck.. compare us to Libya before this. Don't compare what happened here to the deaths of 1000 civilians. When Harper drops bombs on you from an airplane for showing up, then make the comparison. What is happening in Libya, right now, would NEVER happen in Canada. NEVER. YOU WILL NEVER HAVE TO FEAR FOR YOUR LIFE. YOU WILL NEVER DIE FOR YOUR CAUSE. G20 protesters are NOT martyrs. Not in they way Libyans are being.

[TakeBackCanada]

@juxtap0zed

Like I said earlier, I'm comparing Harper's words to his actions, not G20 protesters to Libyan protesters. Again, the 'It's not as bad here as Libya so don't complain' excuse is insufficient and unjustifiable. If you want to say 'fear of bodily harm and arbitrary search and detention' is acceptable as long as no one is killed by police' Fine. You can say that. But I don't think many Canadians want to live in that kind of society.

[juxtap0zed]

@TakeBackCanada "It's not as bad so don't complain" isn't the argument. By all means. Complain. I complain. We need to complain. What happened at the G20 should be complained about. But the WORDS that narrate your video are about people dying. When it says "We condemn the government firing on its own citizens" the words are about death, not tear gas. I'll point out that 100 000's of Canadian protested without a hitch. Your video directly juxtaposes words about death and war. Was the g20 war? no

[TakeBackCanada]

@juxtap0zed

So shooting your own citizens with rubber bullets is hunky dory but using live ammunition is outrageous? Tell that to Natalie Gray. She is the blue-haired girl in the video with the "abrasions". She was shot twice by rubber bullets. That is unacceptable. I hope you dont think she deserved it, because she wasn't one of the '100 000s' who were only subjected to unlawful search and seizure, verbal and physical threats. The protesters may not be 'martyrs' but they are heroes.

[juxtap0zed]

@TakeBackCanada Dude... Are you paying attention? Rubber bullets aren't cool. Real bullets, and jet fighters, and life or death ARE NOT in the same category. You have made a DIRECT comparison. And I'm sorry, if you think the g20 protesters are comparable to Libyan protesters... you're fucking delusional. The protesters of the g20 aren't fucking hero's. They're whiny suburban shit disturbers. There was no coherent message. No organized ideal. No fight for freedom. They showed up for the show.

[TakeBackCanada]

@juxtap0zed

I cant seem to pin down when you think something is a difference in type and when you consider it an order of magnitude. So let's clarify. There are weapons in ascending brutality: Batons < Rubber Bullets < Real Bullets < Tanks.

You clearly have a lot of anger towards G20 protesters. That's your bag. I think people who are brave enough to gather under threat of violence and detention are to be commended. More importantly, I think hypocrites should be called out.

[ElZeeboo]

@juxtap0zed hey dude can I see this clip of you being fucked up by cops that was on national TV? Please link to it. Also why did the cops fuck you up exactly? Was it for protesting? My guess is that they fucked you up for being a whiny suburban shit disturber...  Or that you are simply making stuff up. Either way it must be your fault. right? Link the clip or shut up...

[BoredomCorner]

@ElZeeboo Wait a minute: you just plain assume what this guy was doing, during the protest, and you're accusing HIM of making things up? You're old enough to know better than that, ACT LIKE IT.

(especially since unsupported accusations are against the law)

[ElZeeboo]

@BoredomCorner I'm having a hard time making any sense of your post. I was responding to this troll who has already insulted me and is claiming all sorts of things. I just wanna see something backing this up "I'm an activist. I've been on national television getting fucked up by cops." and "The protesters of the g20 aren't fucking hero's. They're whiny suburban shit disturbers. There was no coherent message. No organized ideal. No fight for freedom. They showed up for the show." - juxtap0zed

[juxtap0zed]

@ElZeeboo Do me a favor and tell me what the message of the g20 protests was? I've looked, and I can't figure it out. The g20 protests were a spectacle, and I personally think that extremist groups like the black bloc (and there are others) have abused the privilege of free expression. Unfortunately, they are the reason the government clung to to enforce this authoritarian rule. But I ask, would you allow them to run free? To torch every citibank they find?

[juxtap0zed]

@ElZeeboo Other famous protests had a coherent message. The Montebello protests called for the end of the SPP. Protests in 2003-2005 called for a cessation of hostilities in Iraq. Protests in Egypt, Tunisia, and now Libya called for the collapse of tyrannical regimes, and a voice for the people. And many, many people in Toronto protested in the places they were asked to. Would you have liked unchecked protests to spread, without protection for people's property, to any and all locations?

[juxtap0zed]

@ElZeeboo What happened in Toronto is being challenged. It was wrong. But don't go around claiming it was all someone else's fault. Many protesters invited this upon themselves, and upon their fellow (more civil) protesters. There were buildings looted, and cars burned, and violence. And no good message. What justified this violence? What did people want to achieve? Of course some people were there for good reasons. But many showed up for the show. Just to complain. Just to be there.

[sk8drew]

@juxtap0zed Do some homework. Judging from your comments readers will assume you are either: A) ignorant/ uninformed B) a police officer/ working for the gov't interests

Protesting is a right. The problem with the G20 protests stems from the way the Harper govt has dealt with things so harshly; suspending Canadian constitutional rights and using oppressive violence against our mothers, fathers, teachers, and neighbours. The anarchist turnout was tiny compared with the peaceful protesters.

[sk8drew]

@juxtap0zed instead of asking on youtube "what justified this violence?" and "what did people want to achieve?" you should do a little homework and find out for your self before publicly publishing your ignorant opinions.

[juxtap0zed]

@sk8drew and you should read the comment threads. The sum of the argument is that the video makes an over comparison between the G20, and what's happening in Libya, in order to call Harper a hypocrite. I argued that this comparison is insensitive, and misguided, because the two events are incomparable. I received, in reply, that the G20 protesters deserve comparison to the Libyans, due to their 'bravery', and exposure to 'a police state'. To which I reply... that's ridiculous.

[ElZeeboo]

@juxtap0zed I was arrested and assaulted at the G20 for seeing the cops beat some guy in handcuffs. I was also threatened with rape. I still protested the next day even after being told by the cops who attacked me to quit protesting. Being threatened with rape is not as bad as being threatened with death but it was still scary to go out and face off with those cops the next day. The Toronto G20 and the Libyan revolution are not compared it is Harper's rhetoric and record that are compared.

[ElZeeboo]

@juxtap0zed Finally compare the violence of the protesters at the G20 to the violence of the Libyan people. G20= 2.5 million in damages done, >200 windows smashed, 4 cars burned, 5 cars destroyed, some people with cameras shoved and threatened, and cops getting golf balls, paint, and tuna thrown at them. So basically less violent than when the Habs win a playoff series. Seriously when Canadians win a playoff series they burn a dozen cop cars and yet they avoid threatening people with rape.

[ElZeeboo]

@juxtap0zed In Libya they are smashing monuments, burning buildings, overthrowing the government, and causing 100's of millions in damages. Gaddafi cannot let protests go on unchecked, right? If they weren't protesting he would have no need to kill them, right? How would the Canadian government react if we were doing such things here? They would say go home or we will kill you. the reason you set a double standard is because you agree with one protest and not the other.

[juxtap0zed]

@ElZeeboo no. No they wouldn't. And I would say "is the g20 reason enough to vandalize neighborhood businesses?" How, HOW? How on EARTH can you compare the g20 to what's happening in the middle east? I repeat. You're a spoiled, sanctimonious little shithead if you think you deserve comparison. You selfish little fucker. You conceited little prick. Who the fuck are you to compare yourself to people dying for a cause?

[ElZeeboo]

@juxtap0zed lol you've been pwned :P I'm right and you're wrong. Here ends the discussion.

[juxtap0zed]

@ElZeeboo I'm not even sure you made a point tbh :p

[Livingvibe2]

@juxtap0zed , OK ,enough of your crying about comparisons, saying you can't because their not exactly the same, you're missing the bigger picture here pal. When u compare almost ANYTHING, is to find the similarities and sort out the differences. Harper made his own comparison by opening his mouth about Libya.The hole "Lesser of two evil's" thing just don't fly anymore, get your head out of the sand. What direction do u think the Harper minority gov is heading?? Clearly strong arm dictatorship.

[juxtap0zed]

@Livingvibe2 Canada is becoming a strong-arm dictatorship? I bet you believe that your phone is tapped and you'll be unfairly searched by authorities on your next trip to Florida. They'll plant pot on you, and throw you in jail. You'll be a political martyr. A heroic protester who bravely fought the slow and steady march to totalitarianism. And when we're all eating soylent green, you'll get to say "I told you so". Thank you, so much, for protecting me from my democratically elected government.

[juxtap0zed]

@ElZeeboo *sigh* Libyans are at war with Gadhaffi. We have a right to peaceful protest. If 2.5 mil in damages resulted with a totalitarian police state imposed, then how much would have been done without? I'm saying that in the g20, there was no NEED for ANY violence. And yet there was violence from both sides. Anarchist groups would have torched anything they associated with capitalism. Why? It's not justified. But when your own government slaughters you for assembling. Then you go to war.

[sk8drew]

@juxtap0zed It is very clear that you are ignorant to the subject and should not be publicly voicing your opinion until you know what is going on. The End.

[juxtap0zed]

@sk8drew I'm pretty sure you still didn't read the comment threads and didn't know what I was arguing or why. Finish reading before you cite ignorance ktnxbye :) The video is about harper's 'totalitarianism'. The author used a comparison btwn g20->Libya. I said "that's insensitive". He said "I'm not comparing." I said "Looks like you are" then other people were like "The g20 is like libya. Totalitarianism is totalitarianism" and I said "No, it's not. Call me back when you have a cause to die 4"

[ElZeeboo]

@juxtap0zed First, free expression is not a privilege it is a freedom. The G20 meeting was about enforcing 'austerity measures' on people, cutting deficits in half by cutting services and hiking taxes. If that isn't worth protesting against then what is? "Many protesters invited this upon themselves" What are you inviting upon yourself by saying stuff like this? Can I now assault/abuse you for disagreeing with me? NO! But in your world it is YES. So you invited what happened to you also?

[juxtap0zed]

@ElZeeboo and finally, I was at the anti-war protests in Ottawa in 2004 when I was arrested. The video of me getting arrested was CTV footage, and is lost in the archives. However, here is a video in which you can see me: youtube.com/watch?v=Wywx6VW1a7­A I show up at 2:14, and though the end of the video. I'm next to the guy with the mohawk, wearing a blue hoodie. I have neck length hair. Shortly after this. the protesters picked up a steel barricade and tried to charge

[juxtap0zed]

@ElZeeboo I stepped in and stopped them from charging the police with the barricade. Moments later, those same men started pushing me into the police, and while I had my hands up in non-violent declaration, they started hitting me in the ribs with their clubs. I got pushed through the line and tackled. They tore out 2 eyebrow rings, broke a bone in my hand, and my ribs were severely bruised. I spent 16 hours in detention with no shoes on. I was charged with disturbing the peace, and assaulting..

[juxtap0zed]

@ElZeeboo ...an officer of the peace. I was the first arrested on the hull side, and the last released, and the most severely charged. My mom, in Nova Scotia, alerted my girlfriend as to where I was, after seeing me get arrested on the news. I never got my shoes back. If you can find the clip in the CTV archives, power to ya. I looked, but it's lost.

[ElZeeboo]

@BoredomCorner And how did I break the law?

[TakeBackCanada]

@juxtap0zed

The uprising will likely escalate into a civil war but its origins lie in the brutal suppression of the right to protest and free association. The words in my video are about the excessively violent nature of that crackdown. Harper is no ally to the Libyan people and his insincere input is not productive.

[juxtap0zed]

@TakeBackCanada I have NO problem with your message. I agree. But you did a really distasteful comparison to convey it. And it STRONGLY suggests the comparison. You take words whose content is about Libya, where people are dying, and superimpose them on the G20. I support your message. Try to be more careful how you say it in the future. I say this because to deliver a message, you must consider your audience's reaction and the message will reach further if your delivery doesn't conflate issues

[TakeBackCanada]

@juxtap0zed

Point taken. You may prove right. I thought about it before I started but found Harper's sanctimonious condemnation to be more distasteful and I wanted to point that out while also provoking discussion of his handling of the G20 Summit. With all these pro-democracy protests happening in the Middle East and Northern Africa, I think this is the right time to question why protesters overseas are called heroes and martyrs, but when it happens here they are called "thugs."