Why are most Khalifas from Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad's Family?

[tobe161]

oye ye kanjer mirza tatti khana kabhi kehta hay me peghamber hon kabhi essa kabhi krishna oye rande ke olad pehly decided to kar lay.HARAMI MIRZA TATTI KHANAY

[tobe161]

oye kanjaron ka khata khul giya angraez ke najaiz oldo kutty ke nasalo bonko jitna ho sakta hay jana to jahanum me he hay

[mehboob038]

This is a family business and it does not take an IQ of 60 to understand it. There was a seat warmer in between and then the family usurped the (false) high position. Hey, its you saying it, not Allah and like the Catholic Church, who also believe that Holy Spirit will guide the Cardinals at the time of selecting the Pope. Question is, when among these Cardinals, who are human after all, commit sins, where is the Holy Spirit to whisper in their ear not to do so?

[mneasn]

@mehboob038

u said that it s a family business .. do u dare to say the same thing for hadrat muhammad saw because every one knows that all of the khulfa rashdeen had a family relation with hadrat muhammad saw

[B0018590]

By the way, Mirza Ghulam claimed that he was an avatar (re-incarnation) of Krishna too. Have you Ahmadis told this "fact" t the Hindu brethren? I still do not see statues of Mirza replacing those of Krishna in the temples and Hindu homes. Are Hindus too not falling for Mirza's lies?

[mneasn]

@B0018590

All major religions promise the advent of a Divine personage who would usher in a new era of hope for mankind and unite them under one Divine flag. Will he be Krishna or Jesus Christ? Will he be Zoroaster or Buddha, or Confucius or Lao-tzu for that matter?

[mneasn]

@B0018590

now imagine if according to ur beleive hadrat isa [as] descend from sky .what will he say to hindus?????

will he not tell them that i am the one who u r waiting for.

will he not announce that for hindus i m khrishna who was to come back. will he not tell All of religions who were waiting for a Divine personage.that i m the one who was to come and was predicted according to ur beleive in ur scripture.

[mneasn]

Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad [as] claimed under divine instruction to fulfil the major prophecies contained in Islamic and other sacred texts regarding a world reformer who would unite humanity. He announced to Christians awaiting the second

coming of Jesus, Muslims anticipating the Mahdi, Hindus expecting Krishna and Buddhists searching for Buddha, that he was the promised Prophet for them all, commissioned by God to rejuvenate true faith and lead a spiritual struggle against evil

[B0018590]

@mneasn What rubbish? So finally you concede that Ghulam Qadiani's claim f being Krishna etc is opportunistic. It is like posing as the lost son of some old parents to unjustifiably inherit the property of the old folks. I expected a better argument from you. Even one of your "metaphorical" argument would have done better than this rubbish argument of yours. Ha Ha Ha

[mneasn]

@B0018590

i asked u a question that what if ur imaginary isa will come what would he say to all other religions ????????

will he not preach them and tell them that only true religion is islam in which Allah had sent his devine personage so accept islam becuz ur own scripture also foretell that one devine personage has to come or ur masseeha will just start killing opponents and snatch away their gold and diamond so that u can have fun .

[B0018590]

@mneasn What rubbish? At least explain your point well. So far as I know as I am an Indian and almost all my good friends are Hindus. As per them lord Krishna is himself an avatar (second coming) of lord Vishnu and he has believed (by Hindu brethren) to walked this earth once in "treta yug". So obviously Mirza Qadiani went grossly wrong when he claimed to be reincarnation of Krishna. As a result, nobody in Hindus knows Mirza, let alone trusting his claim to be Lord Krishna.

[faheemyounas]

There is no such prophecy of prophet muhammad (pbuh) regarding the second coming of muhammad (pbuh), this is the main problem of qadianees, they can cross any limit of Islam to justify the bullshit of their so called KANA NABI.....

[mneasn]

@faheemyounas keeping a human being in sky and stressing upon his physical life of more than 2000 yrs is very islamic ....huh

how come u deny quraan .. go and recite sura jumma where Alah says that he will also send this prophet[saw] to AKhireen

mufassareen had translated the word Akhreen as to people of zammaana where imaan will be not in practice.

[muniruddin]

money. nothing but money. all fraud. all these mullahs are same.

[ccccamp999]

Now, regarding your question about how do I know what Allah has willed. Look around you. What is the dominating force in the world? Popes? Khalifas? Or the desire to be FREE?

NOBODY anywhere is looking for one-man rule in religion, or anything else. People are learning FOR THEMSELVES. Priests, maulvis, Popes, Khalifas, are something Allah has consigned to the past.

He is evolving INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY in religion. Books, video, Internet. Allah moved us away from one-man rule

[ccccamp999]

Your way of ignoring the truth is to claim that Allah "picked" 4 out of 5 of the leaders to be from the same family. "It's God's Will."

Yeah, that's what people claim in war: During the Iran/Iraq war, the soldiers claimed, "Allah is with us."--on both sides.

You use that excuse in order to justiy what has happened: blame it on Allah; claim that it's a "Divine" reason, when it's obvious that it is not. At most, it's a cultural habit, electing the members of the family.

[ccccamp999]

Most importantly, it shows that you can't GET OUT of your own backgrounds, in a manner that will demonstrate true universalism.

Also, yes, Allah can chose whoever He wills. But I got news for you: He DOES NOT choose your Khalifas.

The Roman Catholic Church claims the SAME EXACT THING: that the Pope is "chosen by God." No, he isn't. He's ELECTED by human beings.

Same is the case with your Khalifa. And THAT'S why 4 out of 5 of your leaders have been from the same family.

[ccccamp999]

Thank you for answering, and displaying cultish WEAKNESS. When you get rattled, that's what Ahmadis do; Tell people, "Go away!"

So, this is a good indication--It means that the TRUTH of what I'm saying is rattling you. You're feeling it--in your soul, and now you're afraid.

The issue of Pakistanis is this: You have an Urdu-based, inward-looking culture that, by nature, OFFENDS people. You talk to YOURSELVES. You don't have a universal presence. This HAMPERS greatly your efforts.

[TheTrueAhmadi]

@ccccamp999 bro, mraahs has got a point, if we Ahmadi Muslims are false, you should not need to get up set your national gouvernments against us, Allah's wrath would be enough. Even with all that your doing youve failed miserably for 100 years. If i were you i would ask Allah in prayer weather he even wanted to destroy This Jamaat.

[ccccamp999]

Sorry to "hog" the comments here [pardon the "hog" expression]. But I just have to say this.

Ahmadis TOO MUCH look INSIDE their own world, and not outside. Try hard to see through the eyes of a non-Ahmadi.

Your Jammat looks REAL BAD. It looks like a family-run Jammat, top-heavy with Pakistanis. It just LOOKS that way.

ANYONE who learns about your jamaat, and then discovers that 4 out of 5 of its leaders came from the same family, will NOT say, "Oh, that's Allah's Way."

[mraahs]

@ccccamp999

Thats exactly what he was saying in the video that you say "Allah would not do that" ... why not? He can make it 1 out of 5 or 4 out of 5 or 3 out of 5. How can you judge the action like that and say He would or would not? Read the Holy Qur'an and you'll find it full of things that Allah decreed but the people found ridiculous but that was Allah's way and the people who complained did not understand the wisdom behind it. Why was Hadhrat Ibrahim asked to sacrifice his own son? ...

[mraahs]

... does not that seem like a ridiculous thing when looked at from a non-religious point of view? But every Muslim knows the wisdom behind it.

As far as looking from the outside point of view goes, I also disagree: the Jamaat does not look bad. And it is another misconception to think that it is top-heavy with Pakistanis. The majority of the Jamaat members are non-Pakistani. There's nothing to "discover" .. everyone knows that 4 of 5 khalifas are not from the Promised Messiah's family.

[mraahs]

sorry I meant "everyone knows 4 of 5 khalifas are from the Promised Messiah's family.

[ccccamp999]

The Jamaat doesn't look bad to YOU. But AS SOON as people learn that 4 out of 5 leaders have been family members, they DO NOT accept that AT ALL. They can't. Because, it harkens back to an old, corrupt forum of leadership.

You are LOCKED within your group. As such, you don't REALIZE how bad you look. You wish to convince YOURSELF that Nepotism, in this day, is OKAY. It is not.

There are other reasons your Jamaat looks bad, but we're not on those topics.

[ccccamp999]

Allah operates EVERYWHERE, not just in the world of religion.

It was ALLAH who was BEHIND the DESTRUCTION of the old DIVINE RIGHT OF KINGS system on this planet. And Allah USED the French, as well as the Founding Fathers of the U.S., to DESTROY the Divine Right of Kings system--EVERYWHERE.

He also used the Bolshevics (Communits) to DESTROY the Czar--another manifestation of the Divine Right of Kings.

But here comes Ahmadiyyat, trying to REVIVE IT, while Allah DESTROYED it--everywhere

[mraahs]

@ccccamp999

I don't think "destroyed" is the appropriate word that one can use for a community that started in a remote village of 19th century India and now has members in 190 countries, 1000s of mosques, many education institutes , an international TV network, and world-wide recognition for humanitarian and peace work. Not to mention that Pakistan's first Nobel Prize winner in Physics comes from this community, & much more.If you THINK it will be destroyed then don't use it in the past tense.

[mraahs]

@ccccamp999

...You can say or think as you like but you can't change the decree of Allah, which is that it will prosper and you see it happening, well if you open your eyes that is.

[ccccamp999]

Your community is prospering, and SO ARE THE BAHAIS. So what? So, should I now go join the Baha'is.

You might not have heard: The latest LEGITIMATE statistics (see Foreign Policy magazine) shows that the Bahai Faith is now the SECOND FASTEST-GROWING RELIGION ON EARTH.

So, they are prospering ALSO. So, does that mean that their system is true; or "divinely guided"? The MORMONS are prospering too, and spreading globally.

So, your statement has no meaning.

[ccccamp999]

You did not READ my post correctly. I said that Allah DESTROYED the old Divine Right of Kings system, which was practiced in all parts of the earth.

He finished it! In the Muslim world, the Ottomon Empire was destroyed BY ALLAH, and fit the definition of "Divine Right of Kings."

And then I said, even though Allah DESTROYED that system, here comes Ahmadis trying to REVIVE what Allah destroyed. Get it?

You're going AGAINST His Will. He manifested His will all over the earth.

[mraahs]

@ccccamp999

Your perception of Ahmadiyyat is distorted. The authoritarian structure as you describe it is non-existent in the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community. It is rather a system of Khalifat, the same system that was in place after the Holy Prophet (sa) - one main difference is the khalifa is not the head of state. There are clear prophecies about Khalifat in Qur'an and Ahadith and KhalifateAhmadiyya is in line with those, so how can you say that such an authority is to suffer the wrath of God?

[mraahs]

... forgive me for not reading and replying to all your posts.. this comment posting system is confusing and I don't have the time to sort out which was posted when. If you want to send a longer message to me then it would be easier for me to reply if you emailed ... just b/c the shortage of my time here. When the constraints are removed, I will have no problem replying here Inshallah

[ccccamp999]

I was Ahmadi for DECADES. I know, probably better than you, THE TRUTH.

It IS an authoritarian structure, from top to bottom. The Khalifa can EXCOMMUNICATE someone [and he has done so]. He can OVERRULE a legitimate "election" in your group, AND HE HAS DONE SO. That's AUTHORITARIAN.

When individual Ahmadis had private websites, Mirza Tahir BANNED THEM. In ONE DAY, literally, private Ahmadi websites DISAPPEARED, on HIS WRITTEN AUTHORITY.

Shall I go on? It's AUTHORITARIAN. More?

[mraahs]

@ccccamp999

All this is only reliable to the extent of your word. The real question is:What value do your words have? I've heard these kinds of stories many times & to the extent that I verified, I ONLY found:

(A) Lies

(B) Important facts omitted

I know many pious persons & never once have they had problems with the Jamaat. Only those who have i'll intentions have problems with the Jamaat, and they naturally get expelled and then out of grudges start to propagate lies, as you seem to be doing.

[ccccamp999]

It is not necessary for you to believe a single word that I say. But it IS necessary for me to be true to MYSELF.  And that's why I speak--to tell the truth.

You believe that any complaint, or observation, that doesn't fit into your PERCEPTION of your "perfect" Jamaat, is based in lies, or "ill intentions." Okay, belive it. Fine. That's how you were TAUGHT: That the Jamaat is akin to Allah Himself--FLAWLESS.

That is shirk, as far as I'm concerned. Your Jamaat has HUGE problems.

[mraahs]

@ccccamp999

If it is shirk then Allah will destroy it; but why are you so restless? (as I infer through all these comments). It seems like you're not at peace with yourself. If you were then you wouldn't be surfing around Ahmadi and Ahmadiyya YouTube videos looking for defects...

[mraahs]

... A man once made a painting and put it in the neighbourhood and put a sign beside it saying "if you find a mistake, please mark it," and the next day it was full of marks and he was disappointed as it was ruined. The next painting he made, he was told by a friend to put a sign that says, "if you find a mistake then please correct it," which he did. The next day it was spotless without any changes. Its easy to point out other peoples mistakes.

[ccccamp999]

Your Jamaat has persecuted its members. I do not tell LIES about your Jamaat, but you're free to believe your own illusions.

Anyway, no "stories" have to be told. All one has to do is look at your practices:

1. You claim to unite the world, but can't even marry non-Ahmadi Muslims. Unity?

2. You BAN your members from praying behind non-Ahmadi Muslims. Unity?

3. The story of M.M. Ahmad is REAL and can easily be verified. He told members to SPY on each other, at walimas.

[MORE next]

[mraahs]

@ccccamp999

Rules are rules man, if you don't want to follow them then you're free to do as you like but if you don't like them then its not through any fault of the Jamaat. Not many people seem to have a problem the marriage rule - its actually attractive, especially for new Ahmadis as the future generations get better tarbiyyat. You're forgetting the realities of this world-the better thing to do is always the harder one & you couldn't handle that, so you blame someone else, big surprise.

[allahubekafinabduhu]

@ccccamp999

Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) has ordered to obey the person who has been made your ameer even if he is a black person with a small head (means even if he seems to be inferior). And so was done by muslims after him and wherever people deviated from HIS golden words they were caught in FITNA. So brother you have every right to investigate about the truthfulness of the prophet before believing in him but after that you should obey him and his khulfaa instead of making objections based on yo

[allahubekafinabduhu]

@ccccamp999

[previous message continues] your own understanding. Because in this way there will be no point of establishing khilafat. Khilaafat is not exactly democracy so when we elect someone in our local election it means we are advising the khalifaa that we think this person is suitable for this service. And we are not ORDERING him to appoint him. Khulfaa after Muhammad(PBUH) used to ask for suggestions but sometimes they disagreed and did what they thought was the best.

[ccccamp999]

Testing

[muzaf72]

@ccccamp999

me too

[ccccamp999]

In the U.S., a brother named Salim had a private discussion, over the phone, with another Ahmadi, about his objection to something in the Jamaat. Salim was one of the most BEAUTIFUL, peaceful members.

Well, the Jamaat got wind of his PRIVATE conversation, and ORDERED him, and all Ahmadis, TO NOT TALK TO EACH OTHER OVER THE PHONE ABOUT JAMAAT PROBLEMS.

That's authoritarianism. That's DICTATORSHIP. And you guys want to RULE EARTH?? No way!

You'd be WORSE than the communists. More?

[ccccamp999]

Once, during the reign of M.M. Ahmad in the U.S., an Ahmadi had a walima. At that walima, he had invited his non-Ahmadi friends. And, because it was a MIXED walima, with Ahmadis and non-Ahmadis, he let the non-Ahmadis and Ahmadis mingle.

An Ahmadi REPORTED him to M.M. Ahmad. And M.M. Ahmad issued an ORDER, throught the entiere U.S. Jamaat, no Ahmadi can let non-Ahmadis mix at Wilimas,

AND, he said, Ahmadis who see that should REPORT that Ahmadi to Jamaat authorities. DICTATORSHIP.

[ccccamp999]

See, you can talk your smooth talk to SOMEBODY ELSE, who has not EXPERIENCED how the Jamaat works ON THE INSIDE. Oh, it sounds SO SWEET, what you see--to OUTSIDERS.

But I know what REALLY goes on. I know the DAY-TO-DAY exericse of the DIVINE RIGHT OF KINGS, within your Jamaat. I know how people's souls have been CRUSED, due to this authoritarianism.

I SAW it--for decades I saw it. So, you tell this stuff to somebody ELSE, not me.

And this is not INTERPRETATION. It's what HAPPENED

[ccccamp999]

To check m story, do an exercise: ask any U.S. Ahmadi who is over 55 years old, about the election of Abubakr Ladd to the position of Amir, U.S.A. Jamaat.

It was a LEGITIMATE election. But the Khalifa OVERRULED his election. Instead, he chose someone else [you can find the name yourself]

Guess what??? Years later, the brother the Khalifa chose left the Jamaat, started DRINKING LIQUOR, had extra-marital sex with other women, and left his wife..

But Abubakr Ladd is still a member.

[ccccamp999]

Now, what was my point about Abubakr Ladd, and the election that was STOLEN from him by your Khalifa?

The point is this: IF your "Khilafat" is so DIVINELY GUIDED, how on EARTH could the man he substituted for Abubakr Ladd, have sunk to drinking alcohol, and have sex with women OTHER THAN HIS WIFE?

How? It was NOT a spiritual decision. It was a POLITICAL decision, based on AUTHORITARINISM. Because had it been spiritual, he would have chosen Abubakr Ladd, who's still a good, loyal Ahmadi.

[ccccamp999]

So, you see, we can't talk IDEALISM. One has to look at FACTS, not just idealism.

Idealism is absolutely wonderful. But not at the expense of CLOSING ONE'S EYES. Not at the expense of TRUTH.

I can tell you TONS more stories. And they are not just "stories." These stories speak to the EFFICACY, or NON-EFFICACY of a Divine Right of Kings system.

It can be good in SOME ways. But, overall, it has had a very, very bad history, except in Muslim Spain for 800 years.

Must be honest.

[ccccamp999]

By the way, I am SO SORRY to tell the Abubakr Ladd story. I purposely did not mention the name of the brother who lost his way.

But, I speak from DIRECTLY KNOWLEDGE. The brother called ME to TELL me about his extra-marital affairs, unfortunately. Also, it was no secret in the Jamaat. Everybody knew.

Allah forgive me, but sometimes one has to hit hard.

Look, your Jammat had done good things. But it's NOT designed for the future--not as long as there is a king.

[ccccamp999]

Now, as regards the highlights you ennumerated, I find that...sad. "Nobel Prize"; "190 countries"; "1000s of mosques," etc., etc. What has that got to do with TRUTH? Noting whatsoever.

Christian groups have TONS of all KINDS of instutions, and literally STOMP Ahmadis in that arena. So, should we all now drink the blood of Jesus?

You based your argument on WORLDLY accomplishments? That's quite sad.

People DO see the Nepotism. [next post]

[ccccamp999]

Hope you read previous post on the Divine Right of Kings. What I'm SAYING is that Allah's Will is NOT expressed ONLY within YOUR group, or the CATHOLICS or the SUNNIS or anyone ONE group.

His Will UNFOLDS, all over the planet. The human spirit--through ALLAH--has REJECTED hierarchical, top-down, Kingships.

And that is WHY I CAN say what Allah would do. Because he's DOING it--right in front of our faces.

It is you Ahmadis who turn a blind eye to HIS WILL, that has unfolded over time

[ccccamp999]

[CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST].  Allah would not do that (in my opinion). He would not "select" 4 out of 5 members of the family of a Prophet to rule the Jamaat, in MODERN TIMES, when we have access to the history of mankind, that history having revealed that kinship hierarchies had often been CORRUPT.

I think that Allah would not place such a difficulty on humanity. He would MIX IT UP, I think, which would be in accordance with Wisdom. That's my opinion.

[mraahs]

@ccccamp999

Theres no difficulty about it. You're just making up an issue when there isn't one. It always boils down to "why did Mirza sahib say this?" or "why is the jamaat like this?" when people do not understand the true principles of Islam. Study the history of religions and you will see that the kinds of complaints that people make against he Jamaat are verbatim to the kinds that were made against all the prophets of God and then see which side of the complaint you stand.

[ccccamp999]

You are incorrect. In the past, people DID NOT complain about the Divine Right of Kings. They DID NOT complain about Kingship and succession within families, because it was accepted.

But Allah CHANGED that. Kingship and succession within famlies is DEAD on this earth. It is not coming back. People talk about DEMOCRACY, not the election of a succession of family members.

The earth doesn't accept the Pope. Why your Khalif? That kind of religious leadership has ENDED. It's a new day.

[ccccamp999]

I have to apologize for a mistake I made about the Abubakr Ladd case. I just went and called an old Ahmadi friend, who's still a friend of mine.

He's someone who knew the entire deal. In Abubakr Ladd's case, the Khalifa made the best decision he could make, due to...certain things I cannot say here.

I was NOT wrong about the other brother. But, Hazoor's decision to block Abubakr Ladd was correct, because of a certain reason that I cannot say here.

So, again, apologize for THAT case.

[ccccamp999]

Exactly! There is NOTHING special about the ENTIRE family of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. Just as there is nothing special about ANYONE'S entire family.

But, we're not talking about ORDINARY specialties. If the Ahmad family is special, then in what way? Obviously, the only thing special about them would be SPIRITUALITY. We don't care if they play cricket better than anyone else.

So, again, Why would Allah create such a difficult situation that would cause a THINKING public to be suspicious?

[ccccamp999]

Secondly, the guys first answer was very flippant and disrespectful. He asked, why can't Allah choose from a family, in a dismissive way.

But here's the real question: Why would Allah NOT take into consideration the experience of human beings with NEPOTISM, historically.

Why would Allah FORCE human beings to accept a leadership that APPEARS (whether this is the case or not) to be practicing Nepotism?

He would not. He would, instead, choose different leaders than family members.

[ccccamp999]

Guy answering the question contradicted himself. He first says that the Ahmad family is a "special" family, according to revelations he claims were given to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. But then he says that spirituality is "not inherited," and points out Maulana Nurruddin to make the point.

Within the context of a movement that claims to be planted by God, the notion that the family of the foundre is "special" can be no different than saying that spiritual qualities are inherited.

[mraahs]

@ccccamp999

I disagree. If the family is special it does not mean that the spiritual qualities are to be inherited-how do you create this relationship? If the family is special it also does not exclude a non-family member of the Jamaat from being special, that person being Hadhrat Hakeem Maulvi Nurruddin. There is no contradiction, both situations: a special family and a non-family khalifa can exist.. theres no reason to make them mutually exclusive.