Very beautiful build and I fear that at the end your drive coils and generator coils started to get hot and something started to warp on you.
Please have a look at my postings on ZeroFossilFuel's clip #285. To repeat what I said there in simpler terms, you can look at your motor like this: Your electrical input power gets split into waste heat power and mechanical propulsive power. With the right measurements you could in theory figure that out.
2nd: The overall impedance of the motor at any given time determines the electrical input power. So the "mechanical propulsive power" is what it turning the rotor, the "rotor power" The same split applies to the rotor power, it gets split into waste heat power and electrical generator power. One more time, with careful measurements you can determine the split.
As I said on ZFF's posting, you are playing with the impedances and that determines the balance point RPM.
3rd: Now lets look at your parallel LC circuit on the generator coil side. For starters, not sure you calculated the resonant freq of your components, it's 1/2 * pi * sqr(31 uH * 6 uF) = 11.67 KHz. (+/- 25%) So your resonant frequency is way above your excitation from your passing rotor magnets.
You should actually test the resonant frequency manually by "plucking" it. Just charge the 6 uF cap and then connect it to the generator coil pair and look at the resonant frequency on your scope.
4th: Even though you are not on the real resonant frequency the waveform the LC parallel connection will still act like a tank circuit as shown on your scope. Excitation due to the passing magnets determines the frequency. As more magnet passes occur more and more energy gets stored in the LC tank circuit. A parallel LC circuit is at maximum impedance at the resonant frequency. So let's assume as the tank circuit stores more energy, there is a kind of back-EMF associated with the LC circuit
5th: This explains why the rotor slows down when you add the 6 uF cap. As the cap stores a higher and higher voltage, this is creating a "voltage hill" for the EMF produced in the generator coils and it prevents the EMF from pumping any more energy into the tank circuit. So, what this means in general is that when you create a parallel LC tank circuit by adding the cap, you are increasing the electrical impedance of the motor, less power flows through it, and as a result the rotor slows down
6th: It's important to mention that this discussion is all relative to the later part of your clip, where there was no real load on the far side of the FWBR, just a capacitor.
If you had a resistive load in parallel with the output capacitor, then the dynamics of the circuit would change and you can make an educated guess that the overall impedance of the motor would change. Hence the amount of power flowing through the motor would change and the heat/useful power splits would change.
7th: Let's just think about this a bit more. Let's use our reference point as the LC tank circuit. Depending on the external conditions, the LC tank circuit will store a certain amount of energy, and a certain amount of power will flow through it. The passing rotor magnets are the excitation and they put some power into the LC tank. Power also flows out of the tank through the FWBR into the load.
8th: Let's make a reasonable guess: The higher the AC voltage in the LC tank, the higher the impedance which prevents power from the passing rotor magnets being "pumped into the system." The higher the power drain going through the the FWBR and into the load, the lower the AC voltage in the LC tank, and then presumably lower impedance letting more power flow through the motor and possibly speeding up the rotor.
The whole motor is a balancing act that always balances.
9th: I am just going to state a disclaimer that I don't have a motor to test with and so I may have made some errors. However, this certainly is the most in-depth exploration of what goes on when you add a cap in parallel with the generator coil pairs. It's food for thought. Anybody that was a keener that was comfortable with a scope could easily explore these ideas in depth. What I am saying is all verifiable if you want to do it, timing diagrams and all.
10th: I re-contemplated this and I have some important corrections to what I said. I wasn't thinking as much about the pulse motor pumping power into the rotor, so here is the about-face:
Here is the reason the rotor slows down when you add the 6 uF cap. We know that the voltages get higher in the generator-side LC tank and there is no load when you just charge the cap at the output of the FWBR.
Higher voltages in the LC tank mean higher currents in the tank.
11th: Higher currents in the LC tanks mean higher power dissipation in the resistance of the coil pairs.
Therefore, more rotor power is being burned off in the coils themselves. This creates Lenz drag and slows the rotor down. Your lost heat power is either air/bearing friction or resistive losses in the wires and coils. Adding the 6 uF cap results in more resistive losses in the coils (Lenz drag) and less due to air/bearings thus the rotor slows down.
12th: When you think about it the LC tank at higher AC voltages is still a kind of "blocker" in that it is slowing down the rotor.
When you put a load on the FWBR then the AC voltage in the tank goes down, and the power that was formerly burned off in the coil wire gets transferred into the load across the FWBR, which of course is preferable.
I checked myself, just showing how having the real motor is very helpful and it's hard to think everything through on the first shot.
13th: Here is another key point. If you really believe this thing is OU, then this kind of analysis has to be done and you have to pinpoint where the free power is coming from. Now many people on OU are enthusiasts and want to ignore the video frame captured by Wattsup. I would say that's not the wise choice here. Romero never showed the voltage on the output of the FWBR and that was the "entry point" to cheat, and cheat he did. Nonetheless, you can still have fun analyzing the dynamics.
14th: Here is the big lesson: Making a parallel LC tank circuit on the generator coil side with no load is not particularly great. The voltages and currents build up in the LC tank circuit and that sucks the power out of your rotor and pours it down the drain as waste heat. No Batter what Battestar Galactica explanation Bolt wants to give you, that's what's really happening.
Therefore it's reasonable to assume that with a load across the FWBR, the LC tank is NOT helping. Scope and measure.
@User2718218 Thank you for your input on the test results. Actually, the coils are 31 mH, not uH (this was a mistake on the schematic that we didn't catch until later). Also, yes we do use the "plucking" method to empirically determine the tank resonant frequency. The simply way is to take a small air core, place it above one of the generator coils, and tap the air core leads to a battery; then just watch the ring down of the tank using a scope.
I suppose the Capacitor has an internal Resistor to prevent, to have unexpected Results
User2718218 is a Spammer and nothing as a poor sad Boy, what still dont get it, that noone will listen to him anymore.
Jgo1704 7 months ago
Very beautiful build and I fear that at the end your drive coils and generator coils started to get hot and something started to warp on you.
Please have a look at my postings on ZeroFossilFuel's clip #285. To repeat what I said there in simpler terms, you can look at your motor like this: Your electrical input power gets split into waste heat power and mechanical propulsive power. With the right measurements you could in theory figure that out.
User2718218 7 months ago
2nd: The overall impedance of the motor at any given time determines the electrical input power. So the "mechanical propulsive power" is what it turning the rotor, the "rotor power" The same split applies to the rotor power, it gets split into waste heat power and electrical generator power. One more time, with careful measurements you can determine the split.
As I said on ZFF's posting, you are playing with the impedances and that determines the balance point RPM.
User2718218 7 months ago
3rd: Now lets look at your parallel LC circuit on the generator coil side. For starters, not sure you calculated the resonant freq of your components, it's 1/2 * pi * sqr(31 uH * 6 uF) = 11.67 KHz. (+/- 25%) So your resonant frequency is way above your excitation from your passing rotor magnets.
You should actually test the resonant frequency manually by "plucking" it. Just charge the 6 uF cap and then connect it to the generator coil pair and look at the resonant frequency on your scope.
User2718218 7 months ago
4th: Even though you are not on the real resonant frequency the waveform the LC parallel connection will still act like a tank circuit as shown on your scope. Excitation due to the passing magnets determines the frequency. As more magnet passes occur more and more energy gets stored in the LC tank circuit. A parallel LC circuit is at maximum impedance at the resonant frequency. So let's assume as the tank circuit stores more energy, there is a kind of back-EMF associated with the LC circuit
User2718218 7 months ago
5th: This explains why the rotor slows down when you add the 6 uF cap. As the cap stores a higher and higher voltage, this is creating a "voltage hill" for the EMF produced in the generator coils and it prevents the EMF from pumping any more energy into the tank circuit. So, what this means in general is that when you create a parallel LC tank circuit by adding the cap, you are increasing the electrical impedance of the motor, less power flows through it, and as a result the rotor slows down
User2718218 7 months ago
6th: It's important to mention that this discussion is all relative to the later part of your clip, where there was no real load on the far side of the FWBR, just a capacitor.
If you had a resistive load in parallel with the output capacitor, then the dynamics of the circuit would change and you can make an educated guess that the overall impedance of the motor would change. Hence the amount of power flowing through the motor would change and the heat/useful power splits would change.
User2718218 7 months ago
7th: Let's just think about this a bit more. Let's use our reference point as the LC tank circuit. Depending on the external conditions, the LC tank circuit will store a certain amount of energy, and a certain amount of power will flow through it. The passing rotor magnets are the excitation and they put some power into the LC tank. Power also flows out of the tank through the FWBR into the load.
User2718218 7 months ago
8th: Let's make a reasonable guess: The higher the AC voltage in the LC tank, the higher the impedance which prevents power from the passing rotor magnets being "pumped into the system." The higher the power drain going through the the FWBR and into the load, the lower the AC voltage in the LC tank, and then presumably lower impedance letting more power flow through the motor and possibly speeding up the rotor.
The whole motor is a balancing act that always balances.
User2718218 7 months ago
9th: I am just going to state a disclaimer that I don't have a motor to test with and so I may have made some errors. However, this certainly is the most in-depth exploration of what goes on when you add a cap in parallel with the generator coil pairs. It's food for thought. Anybody that was a keener that was comfortable with a scope could easily explore these ideas in depth. What I am saying is all verifiable if you want to do it, timing diagrams and all.
User2718218 7 months ago
10th: I re-contemplated this and I have some important corrections to what I said. I wasn't thinking as much about the pulse motor pumping power into the rotor, so here is the about-face:
Here is the reason the rotor slows down when you add the 6 uF cap. We know that the voltages get higher in the generator-side LC tank and there is no load when you just charge the cap at the output of the FWBR.
Higher voltages in the LC tank mean higher currents in the tank.
User2718218 7 months ago
11th: Higher currents in the LC tanks mean higher power dissipation in the resistance of the coil pairs.
Therefore, more rotor power is being burned off in the coils themselves. This creates Lenz drag and slows the rotor down. Your lost heat power is either air/bearing friction or resistive losses in the wires and coils. Adding the 6 uF cap results in more resistive losses in the coils (Lenz drag) and less due to air/bearings thus the rotor slows down.
User2718218 7 months ago
12th: When you think about it the LC tank at higher AC voltages is still a kind of "blocker" in that it is slowing down the rotor.
When you put a load on the FWBR then the AC voltage in the tank goes down, and the power that was formerly burned off in the coil wire gets transferred into the load across the FWBR, which of course is preferable.
I checked myself, just showing how having the real motor is very helpful and it's hard to think everything through on the first shot.
User2718218 7 months ago
13th: Here is another key point. If you really believe this thing is OU, then this kind of analysis has to be done and you have to pinpoint where the free power is coming from. Now many people on OU are enthusiasts and want to ignore the video frame captured by Wattsup. I would say that's not the wise choice here. Romero never showed the voltage on the output of the FWBR and that was the "entry point" to cheat, and cheat he did. Nonetheless, you can still have fun analyzing the dynamics.
User2718218 7 months ago
14th: Here is the big lesson: Making a parallel LC tank circuit on the generator coil side with no load is not particularly great. The voltages and currents build up in the LC tank circuit and that sucks the power out of your rotor and pours it down the drain as waste heat. No Batter what Battestar Galactica explanation Bolt wants to give you, that's what's really happening.
Therefore it's reasonable to assume that with a load across the FWBR, the LC tank is NOT helping. Scope and measure.
User2718218 7 months ago
@User2718218 Thank you for your input on the test results. Actually, the coils are 31 mH, not uH (this was a mistake on the schematic that we didn't catch until later). Also, yes we do use the "plucking" method to empirically determine the tank resonant frequency. The simply way is to take a small air core, place it above one of the generator coils, and tap the air core leads to a battery; then just watch the ring down of the tank using a scope.
Jdo300 7 months ago
Very decent setup, excellent monitoring and methodology. What more can i say ? :P
Mr32243224 7 months ago
That's it, very nice!
your team is awesome. But, do share the technical difficulties - makes for a fun vid :-)
Patrick
min2oly 7 months ago