Jonbee 2

[Crejaksiaan4ever]

Google ==> Positive reinforcement training

[phoenixflameangel13]

What a beautiful animal...and what is it with people on youtube...EVERYONE claims to be an 'expert' and only very few prove it. But then again, that's one of the most entertaining and amusing things about youtube :)

[Mewsaphine]

People...you talk real big, and don't have any issues criticizing someone when you yourselves don't even know the first thing about training or working with aggressive dogs. I do. Cesar is NOT harming the dogs, he's helping them. My most recent dog is an extremely territorial GSD/St. Bernard mix who attacks guests, and even went after the 5 year old wearing his Halloween costume. Unless you've worked with aggressive dogs like this...shut up and watch...you may learn something!

[plimbuff]

@Mewsaphine you can deny it all you want, but now it's VERY clear that you don't have respect for science, and the scientific method.

Science is obviously the best way we have to determine what works, and what doesn't. You are completely ignoring what the VAST MAJORITY of scientific studies have to say about "Ceaser the Celebrity".

"CM" is not even in the top 1000 dog trainers. Their are thousands of trainers better than him, and more up-to-date.

(Being UP-TO-DATE is ESSENTIAL in science.)

[RonnieKane]

Why are people complaining? Ceaser spent time friggen cuddling with the dog, and by the end the dog was happy and loved to a point that they didn't even want to give him away, they wanted to keep him as a permanent part of the family.

It figures that this video is about people who take time and money from their own pockets to rescue homeless dogs, and yet there are STILL comments criticizing and hating on Ceaser, just cause he tamed an aggressive dog.

[odiedie]

@AboutDogTraining3

let me know, do you have a capability to handle dog, like this wild dog? post your video i'lll watching you....if you cannot show yours, im sure you're a member of NATO (NO ACTION TALK ONLY)

[AboutDogTraining3]

@odiedie, this is another failure by Millan. At the end, after driving the dog into catatonia the owners claimed that they were keeping the dog. The truth is that this dog actually became even more aggressive and that these poor fools gave it away, unable to handle it. This is common, as the dog becomes used to one level of aggression against it, the owners have to increase the violence in order to get the same result.

[FDelp994]

@AboutDogTraining3 lol its not cesar's failure if the owners didn't try hard enough to rehabilitate him. he doesn't even follow through for these kind of cases after the show is filmed. he probably does many of these "cases" per day.

[AboutDogTraining3]

@FDelp994 it's millan's fault for using violence and force to try to change a fearful and reactive dog. We know from various studies that it wasn't going to work. You can't dominate a dog out of fear. You can't "assert" a dog out of fear. You can't punish fear way.

[Nemireck]

@AboutDogTraining3 Could you please link some videos or some written articles on how a dog like this SHOULD be handled? Preferably, I'd like to see some video footage of whatever method you subscribe to actually working. At the end of this episode they show the owners getting the dog to sit and lay down without touching the animal, would that be possible if the dog were truly MORE aggressive than before? I'm asking so I can be educated, not to argue with you.

[grejotte]

@Nemireck Can't post video links... Go at drsophiayin's website, in resources and in videos,

Then looks for the entitled videos: "Training Aggression? Counter-conditioning a Dog to Blowing in Face", "Aggressive Behavior in Dogs: Mollie’s Bad With Other Dogs" and "Podee is Dog Aggressive".

[AboutDogTraining3]

Cesar failed and the dog eventually became more aggressive and these people had to give the dog away.

[PashaGopa1]

@AboutDogTraining3 Cesar did NOT fail. The two people were aiming to have Jonbee adopted out. Thanks to Cesar, Jonbee was able to be adopted.

You call that a failure? I don't. I call that a success!

[AboutDogTraining3]

@PashaGopa1, they gave the dog away because he had become so aggressive they couldn't handle him. It's a failure, millan claimed he fixed the dog. he did not

[PashaGopa1]

@AboutDogTraining3

If I were you, I would REWATCH the video again and LISTEN. The two people said that they wanted to find Jonbee a permanent home. They rescued Jonbee and were trying to get him adopted out.

Because of Cesar, they were able to place Jonbee in a forever home.

[AboutDogTraining3]

@PashaGopa1, what people say is usually bullshit. What they did is to give the dog away because they could'n't handle him after he became more aggressive.

[AboutDogTraining3]

@PashaGopa1, you should really shut up. You don't know what you are talking about. If you had watched. THE WHOLE EPISODE, at the end they say that they are keeping the dog. What they did, was get rid of the dog, once they realized the increased levels of aggression they needed to control it.

[thenightmarecafe]

people are no longer treating dogs as a human

dogs come from the wolf the wolf is a ANIMAL

animals bite and fight and stuff to show whos the boss

we give candy for evrything now

if you think about how do you think a wolf would do to this dog in this state??

[plimbuff]

@thenightmarecafe, as for your other post about how dogs are like wolfs, your wrong.

There's one big difference.

It's called 'domestication'.

In laymen terms, Domestication makes dogs more adapt to living with humans, as well as less aggressive towards humans than wild animals.

Dogs are not like humans.

Dogs are not like wild animals.

Dogs are dogs.

CM is 20 yrs behind, thinking they're like wolves.

You make the fundamental mistake of valuing one man's advice, over the scientific method.

[thenightmarecafe]

@plimbuff ceasar use other dogs and use other dogs phycoligy

im not saying ceasar is great but he has many good points about DOG PSYCOLIGY

and fuck science

science say bumble bies shouldnt be able to fly,, but they do, so science dosnt prove evrything

all dogs are not domesticated, some are breed to think and live by themselve and gard packs

[plimbuff]

@thenightmarecafe, actually a scientific explanation of bee flight was discovered in 2005 at Caltech. (Perhaps you should do a little research next time, rather than believing a rumor you heard as a kid, and passing it off as fact).

Seriously, you could have just searched "bee flight" on Wikipedia.

Also, you obviously know nothing about psychology, if you did, you would at least know how to SPELL it.

Way off man. Way off.

Also your domestication point doesn't dispute what I said.

[plimbuff]

@thenightmarecafe, (con't)

Basically you're saying science can't explain EVERYTHING yet, so it's totally useless. ...then perhaps next time you have a family member who gets a serious illness, you should just pray to the "gods", or use "mind-power" and "psychic-healing" instead of getting them medical treatment. lol

Science is the most useful, and reliable tool we know of to help us understand how the natural world works.

I'm curious, do you know of a more reliable method? Please share.

[grejotte]

@thenightmarecafe Dogs AREN'T wolves, and a dog meetings Jonbee in this situation would leave that dog alone because he knows the canine language and knows that Jonbee wants to avoid conflicts by the signals he's giving.

[plimbuff]

@thenightmarecafe, LOL WTF? ...yes , that's right. People don't treat dogs as humans. lol

Weird point dude.

And sure dogs come from wild dogs, just as humans come from Neanderthals. SFW

Again irrelevant

Plus your last sentence was the funniest, since it was illegible even to the most elementary of elementary English teachers.

NO offense, but here's you're quote:

"if you think about how do you think a wolf would do to this dog in this state??"

LOL

Seriously, were you DRUNK or something?????

[doggiesteigger]

The dog whisperer is fake l just found out

[robotgiraffe]

@plimbuff I think it's very important to take what pokerfreak says when he says "CM doesn't train dogs, he trains humans." I don't know to what dog training skills you're referring that are supposedly out of date, but if you watch CM, you notice that almost every dog listens to him, and once he adapts the owners to act more like him, the dogs listen to them, too! Why? A simple thing called posturing and fluidity, which dogs notice and respect. CM is not training dogs, he's training owners.

[truthaboutforever7]

That poor animal... Cesar Milan really needs to be taken off National Geographic. For a channel dedicated to the advancement of science and knowledge, they are really doing the world of animal behavioural science a huge disservice.

[LittenJack]

Where is this dog today?

[mmehlsen]

You take a dog that is scared out of its mind, stress it and keep crossing the line where the dog signals STOP! You keep doing this, until the dog learns that fighting is not an option, and the dog is put in a state of passive terror.

This dog is now a timebomb!

I have also spend many years working with troubled dogs, specially dogs with similar aggresion. This dog dos not need to learn that submission is the way to go, it needs to learn that it is safe, then it wil be naturally submissive

[jalojalka]

The only one who is violent in this clip is the dog. He is the one creating all the stress and sound and movement. Cesar is very calm and gentle but firm with him, as he has to be or this wild dog would attack him. The owners later wrote that Cesar was very respectful and treated the dog kindly, not harming it in any way. Look it up, you can find their comment on the internet.

[plimbuff]

@jalojalka, the owner's opinion is irrelevant because she wasn't the one having the experience. It's a basic logical fallacy to accept personal testimony of an individual whom wasn't even having the experience.

She wasn't feeling the sensation of being jerked around on a choke chain, the DOG was.

People can't accurately perceive the pain of others.

You're making an obvious logical mistake by trusting the FLAWED testimony a witness, MORE than the VIDEO EVIDENCE showing she's dead wrong.

[plimbuff]

@jalojalka, you said the dog was the one creating all the stress? LOL Perhaps you should watch the vid again.

This dog had a horribly abusive youth, HIS AGGRESSION IS CAUSED BY FEAR BECAUSE OF PAST ABUSE, NOT "DOMINANCE".

So, stranger comes into your house, a muzzle is put on you so you can't defend yourself or your family against this unknown stranger. Then the stranger puts you on a choke chain and starts doing all the exact things to you that you REALLY don't like. (continued)

[plimbuff]

(con't) So, the stranger keeps trying to push your stress level, so you growl to try to tell him you don't like it. He keeps doing it, trying to get you to freak out, so you growl louder again telling him to PLEASE STOP, I DON'T FUCKING LIKE WHAT YOUR DOING. Then you try to get away, and get choked by the choke chain. The stress keeps increasing.

...This is Ceaser's show. He does everything he can to stress the dogs to such an extreme level, they literally "shut down".

VERY harmful technique.

[pokerfreak11]

@plimbuff Dogs are animals, they dont have share the same feelings we do. Dogs do have emotion but they dont hold down to them like we do. Cesar's approach was purely psychological, it might look bad to some ppl but this is how we look at thing in modern society, especially in America and other ''rich'' countries. Our emotions get in the way and we immediately feel sorry for the animal. You cant help someone if you feel sorry, you have to stay calm and assertive at all times. Simple as that.

[thenightmarecafe]

@pokerfreak11 agree

animals are animals

bad thing is we try to treat them like humans and they just get hurt from that :(

[pokerfreak11]

@plimbuff If you think this dog is time bomb, you're a moron.Take a look at a letter Jonbee's owner sent to cesar. If you're not ok with Cesar's methods then just don't use them.Dont come here and criticise a man who has saved lives of hundreds of dogs and has brought SO MUCH awareness into dog owners lives.

[plimbuff]

@pokerfreak11, ceaser didn't cure the dog. The owners did, and it took them over a year.

If you really think Ceaser did anything in a couple of days to change this dog then you seriously need to stop watching so much TV.

He has an editing crew sorting through the thousands of bad camera shots until they find what they want to put on the show.

Please don't be so naive.

Ceaser is opposed by the majority of reputable dog training organizations.

Look it up, and stop believing everything on TV.

[pokerfreak11]

@plimbuff cesar showed them how to help them cure the dog, i dunno if it took them a year but the point is he help the owners a lot. You can see the letter they sent to cesar. google cesar and jonbee, its the third link. Yea so they edit the show, of course they do moron , but there is no second take in the animal world, so what you see is what you get. You're the one that is naive believing all the false statements ppl are making about Cesar. They just jealous.

[plimbuff]

@pokerfreak11, you are really that naive?

I just explained to you that they record HOURS of film and find clips that make it appear as if he's fixing the dog.

You responded by saying, "there is no second take in the animal world, so what you see is what you get."

LOL That's EXACTLY where you're wrong pokerfreak.

When you involve editing crews, the "animal world" becomes whatever the director wants it to be.

Animals TALK in some movies, so I guess you believe animals talk too. LOL

[plimbuff]

@pokerfreak11, The top dog training organizations and trainers aren't doing it to get rich like Ceaser. They actually care about finding the best ways to train dogs.

They criticize Ceaser because his many of his methods are 20 years out of date, and have been proven to do more harm than good. Yet Ceaser is on national T.V. preaching these outdated methods.

I understand that you, like most other people, aren't educated about up-to-date dog training. But that's still no reason to trust TV.

[pokerfreak11]

@plimbuff Outdated methods? We're talking about dogs. This isn't technology. Dogs haven't evolved. We the humans on the other hand have evolved a lot. This is why we are coming up with different approach in working with dogs. To say it's an outdated method is meaningless. As long as you treat dog like dog then fine. Nobody cares about what top dog training organization do, it's their business. DW brought awareness to SO many people and helped relationship between human dog. Thats the bottom line

[plimbuff]

@pokerfreak11, the psychology of dogs is a science.

Like any science, psychology is constantly improving. We are constantly learning more and more about the how different animals think.

You don't seem to respect the scientific method.

Basically you're saying the dog whisperer is always right, therefore everything scientists have learned in the last 20 years is bullshit. LOL

I laugh.

Science vs Ceaser ...hmmm

sorry, I have to go with science.

And science say's he does more harm than good.

[pokerfreak11]

@plimbuff I dont disrespect scientific methods. There are different ways to work with dogs. CM says to never work against mother nature ; living in the moment, being patient and have a calm assertive energy. That's common sense. I think it's important to remember the simplicity of being. Is Cesar always right? We all have different opinions and view things differently. In the end, CM brings awareness about exercising dogs and creating calm submission to create peace. Spread the love my friend

[plimbuff]

@pokerfreak11, you can deny it all you want, but now it's VERY clear that you don't have respect for science, and the scientific method.

Science is obviously the best way we have to determine what works, and what doesn't. You are completely ignoring what the VAST MAJORITY of scientific studies have to say about "Ceaser the Celebrity".

"CM" is not even in the top 1000 dog trainers. Their are thousands of trainers better than him, and more up-to-date.

(Being UP-TO-DATE is ESSENTIAL in science.)

[pokerfreak11]

@plimbuff No dude, I am even currently taking a dog obedience trainer/instructor course with ICS (at home study).

CM is not a dog trainer, he trains people. Its the human that needs to understand how a dog thinks and sees life. I dont want to argue with you, if you dont agree with his methods, OK. but don't talk smack about a man who is creating peace everywhere he goes. cm is not in the top 1000 dog trainers..lol? It shouldnt be about who is better than who, but about working all together,peace

[plimbuff]

@pokerfreak11, now Ceaser is a people trainer??? Whoa that's deep man, is he certified for that? LOL

However you want to label it, we both know what he does.

He trains dogs.

The problem is, you keep IGNORING my primary point which is: the majority of top training organizations criticize Ceaser because his many of his methods are 20 years out of date, many of which have proven to do more harm than good. Yet Ceaser is on national T.V. preaching these outdated methods.

CAN YOU ADDRESS THAT?

[pokerfreak11]

@plimbuff Ya 20 years out of date, poor dogs must feel bad that owners are not up to date. darn. ah silly old dangerous methods, what a shame isnt.

[pokerfreak11]

@plimbuff you get too caught up in comparing methods instead of focusing how to incorporate what works for both..your too focused on the human concept of "old methods" or old fashion methods vs. new methods with the word new implying better.

[plimbuff]

@pokerfreak11, you just said, "you're too focused on the human concept of "old methods" or old fashion methods vs. new methods with the word NEW implying BETTER."

Pokerfreak, when you make that statement, you're obviously implying that science DOESN'T get better over time.

Your claiming that the "old" science is JUST as good, maybe even better than the new science.

Fine.

That PRECISELY supports my earlier statement that you have no respect for, nor any understanding of the scientific method.

[scoi2p1on]

@plimbuff The truth is that this "old method" you are stating actually saves dogs, the new methods (its the dog or me.. etc) when a roadblock is found or a real aggressive dog is found and a treat can't show it other way, they label the dog and kill it... too unfair, CM has many examples of this dogs being rehab within weeks,

[plimbuff]

@scoi2p1on, you are presenting an obvious strawman argument, when you assert that we are less hesitant to kill dogs now than we were in the old days.

Perhaps you haven't been paying attention to the specific animal rights laws passed over the last 50 years.

As we continue to develop a more humane, and better understanding of dogs over time, we adjust our methods accordingly.

You make the fundamental mistake of valuing one man's advice, over the scientific method.

[moxiemari]

blue/black tongues are CHARACTERISTICS of the breed.

sure, Jonbee looks like he's out of breath, but that's the only way you calm a dog of that much pent-up energy down. it's not an obedient golden retriever, it is a JINDO.

[mokibella]

ok, so i read a lot of the comments posted on here before i watched the videos. then i decided to find out for myself if the owners had given the dog away. i did a search for jonbee, and it's right there on the Nat Geo webpage-they still have the dog. the owners hace responded to the rumors. read it for yourselves.

[AlienXCherie]

We didn't tame dogs... Dogs followed us and or trash until we eventually met. These methods do work, but they can be hard on the dog. If you want a dog that has no-stress and training can be rewarding and not "omg, if I don't do this I'm gonna get pinned again" is positive reinforcement... besides, nobody can successfully completely tame a wolf, Dogs adjusted themselves to be in favor with us (no more hunting, yay!). We'll see what I'll think after I become a certified canine behaviorist..

[sunshinesuperjam]

That dog is drugged.

[soccersweeper12]

The only training method Caesar Milan knows is hypoxia! This was not a successful training session and Johbee did not learn anything. It is very disturbing that Caesar thinks he is training these dogs because he treats all cases the same way. He never modifies his methods to suite an animals individual behavior problems. It really breaks my heart that people who love their animals can be conned into using this method of training.

[PinguimMarco]

For you all that said this was a failure, please search Jonbee on Google and find out what happened after the show.

[PinguimMarco]

As they said: they are taming not a pet dog but a very smart and independent hunting dog. And probably the dog didn't have a good past.

[Bananaboy109]

they just "assume" its a Jindo

i am korean and I see a lot of jindo dogs.

this dog is not a Jindo. JINDOS look far different from this dog

[Bananaboy109]

they just "assume" its a Jindo

i am korean and I see a lot of jindo dogs.

this dog is not a Jindo. JINDOS look far different from this dog

[colliebird]

This dog hasn't "become tame," it is fighting for breath/life because CM  cut off his air supply. Try it on yourself!!!

The dog isn't trying to kill, it's trying to defend itself.

When an animal is attached, it has a fight or flee defence, and as it can't flee, it has to fight.

CMs methods are brutal.

Dogs aren't stupid enough to think humans are pack leaders. Only an animal of it's own species can be a pack leader.

I've never had to use harsh methods in 50 years of training dogs.

[erinlmckee]

You CAN get a dog to be nonaggressive with less draconian measures. Ive done it, with a dog like Jonbee without wrestling it down and choking it. I've helped others' dogs too without manhandling to the point of learned helplessness. Not as dramatic this way, that's why Cesar has a show & others who are more humane and more effective don't.

Check out "A Crateful of Teeth" by Sue Ailsby. & Karen Overall's Relaxation Protocol. & Sue Garrett's Ruff Love for ways to be in control without terrifying.

[meanmark1]

so this is the infamous video where Cesar is a monster and practices inhuman treatment to a canine? People need to take a step back and think about things logically. Cesar often deals with more extreme cases and in the case here, has no choice but to use alpha techniques. Cesar's cards are laid out on the table. We can't see Tamar Geller's positive techniques in extreme cases like this because she's not on cable television. It's simply not possible to use treats to fix THIS dog's behavior

[mandyscain]

Totally agree. It's so easy to judge when you don't have the experience and knowledge to see that in this case, this is the most effective tecnique to control this animal. I'm a Cesar big fan, and i think that he really understands whats going on with the dog, and what is needed to help him. Most of the people that criticize him on the comments, probably would prefer to give up the dog, sacrifice him ou just tie it he the backyard, while Cesar never gives up,whatever it takes. He's the best!

[azbacnikorange]

@meanmark1 If you notice, while the dog is being "submissive," his tongue is blueish. This is from cyanosis---ie lack of oxygen. Most scientists and most professional dog training groups decry Milan's methods as false, inhumane, and abusive. Don't merely side with him just because he has a TV show; use reason to understand that if most reputable dog trainers are against his methods, as well as wolf researchers who say his "alpha dog" theory is incorrect, then he is probably wrong.

[plimbuff]

@meanmark1, do you honesty believe he cured this dog's problem? LOL

He's a good dog trainer, but don't forget it's TV They exaggerate, and lie to get ratings. They edit the film in order to make him look like almost a God with special powers, which we all know he's not. They're just trying to establish his image as a"Dog Whisperer".

He didn't cure this dog, his production crew just spent a few hours gathering camera shots and later compiling them in a way that would make it appear believable.

[fuckingamikek]

secondchancelove(dot)org/image­s/jon-beePopup(dot)html

'nuff said...

[LeoTheHood]

QOUTE

Italian veterinary behaviourists agree with the criticism already? made by U.S. colleagues of the American College of Veterinary Behaviorists (ACVB), American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior (AVSAB) and the Society of Veterinary Behavior Technicians (SVBT): The veterinary behavioral medicine has made continuous efforts to move forward in professionalism, sophistication and technical standards of animal welfare. Millan have accomplished to take animal welfare a big step backwards

[Lopezhorses]

Cesar did a great job with this out of control dog.. He had issues that NEEDED to be dealt with. Cesar did nothing wrong with this dog whatsoever.

[LitleDusk]

Oh BTW, when I saw somebody beat their child in the supermarket for throwing a tantrum, they acted just like this after he was thrown to the floor.

[LitleDusk]

That dog was pulled up by his throat. He has his tail down, doesn't wolf-pack shithead not recognize the fear and submission in the "tail"?

[Inkspite]

How can people see the scared-shitless look in that Jindo's eyes, and praise the fact that Milan is grabbing his neck and shoving him into the ground?

[ykyjohn]

CM dominate the dogs, but cant teach stupid ppl.

If ppl learn with CM, the dogs will never be a problem, if not, thats because the ppl dont have what it take to have a dog.....and the owner of this dog show fear, his not sure and didnt learn what CM tout , i can see it very clear when he tries the method, if ppl dont see better not have a dog that isnt easy to handle , thats all

[el5pk]

this video was pretty hard to watch..

[Hudson2012]

So what if they gave the dog away?? Wasnt that their original intent anyway? they said that all the dogs they rescued they found homes for! Its great that the dog was actually safe and balanced enough that they could safely give it away to a new family without worrying about it being aggressive.

[SaiYanSighT]

"- I feel like a good boy, too!! Haha :D"

[Aylanoke]

Wow... JonBee shut down and HARD, poor dog. He still had a look of fear in his eyes as he was down and panting. A strong and independent breed like a Jindo doesn't need to be forced on its back to be manageable. Dominating a dog teaches it that you are a scary and violent creature. Holy shih-tzu.

[NVBKMal]

Despite all these pathetic attempts to "dominate", the couple had to give the dog away because it was too aggressive.

[reykingly]

so, where is your show? I ,mean since you know everything about dogs?

[NVBKMal]

You are an idiot, whether I have a show or not doesn't change the fact that this method is cruel and in the end it did nothing to change the situation. They were forced to give away this dog.

[reykingly]

Your the idiot, and I fear for the next generations idiocy is a plague that can not be cured. The owners kept the dog. you would have known that if you weren't such a dotard. I would do some research before I post comments like you did. fools rush to answer. I am sorry.

[NVBKMal]

Brain dead sycophant troll, in MIllan's episode guide they update it and THEY GAVE THE DOG AWAY...

Asshole, do some research before writing again.

[reykingly]

hahaha. thanks for that. I'm done talking to you. get a life. your an Internet Tough Guy. no real nuts to speak of. I guess thats a good thing. you cant spread your idiocy genes. I'm done. wont say any more. it was fun while in lasted. thanks buddy. I had a laugh.

[NVBKMal]

No problem idiot, it's always a pleasure when I can instruct those lacking in knowledge.

[SaiYanSighT]

That's a good point.

[quesacoesse]

where did you see this? do you have the link? i'd like to see that.

[annimon]

As opposed to not dominating a dog (as a pack leader dog would do) and showing it that you are a walkover, can be ignored and agression will never have consequences until the day the dog gets put down for biting a child. Dominance doesn't mean violence, agression or wrong doing. It means responsibility, something most dog owners don't have

[kashyap3881]

Cesar always made it a point that it is the owners who have the responsibility to rehabilitate their dogs by practicing what he shows them. In every episode i see him explain the realities of the situation. Now if they do not follow his advice it is pretty obvious that the dog will go back to its old ways. I love Cesar since he shows lot of patience and studies the psychological aspect of dog's behavior.

[Dazvat1]

Well said Kashyap3881 - in most cases the owners are to blame through their lack of knowledge, lazy habits and this man made way of trying to humanize dogs. Ceasurs understanding of this and the importance of our state/energy projection makes him what he is... Fukin brill! :-). He is at one with dogs and is a great communicator to the owners but once hes gone, its up to the owners to keep up the good work. If they dont then its their fault NOT the dogs :-)

[PrometheansFire]

Cesar is to blame because he provides bad advice. In this case he tried to meet aggression with more aggression and in the end it failed. The only people more ignorant that Millan are his followers.

[Dazvat1]

Didnt see any aggression on Ceasur's behalf.

[PrometheansFire]

I wonder if someone tried to do that to you; would you still think it wasn't aggression?

[Dazvat1]

Lets get something straight asshole, dogs are dogs, humans are humans. When you 'humanize' dogs thats where the core of most problems are found. Your just a wanker with an attention deficit disorder who thrives on creating controversy. Do me a favour and fuck off cos your lack of intelligence and OCD problems are very mundane.... Tell someone who cares cos I couldnt give a shit. Ive seen your comments on other Cesar vids + u get far too much attention for a wanker. Good luck in your recovery...

[PrometheansFire]

Pay attention retard, no one is claiming dogs are anything other than what they are. Fucking idiot!

[Ilsimeone]

Sorry, but I agree with Dazvat and Kashyap here. As you could see in the vid, CM didn't fail at all, the dog is completely changed thanks to CM's methods. I never saw CM use any aggressive methods ever. He has his own pack of 40 calm, happy and balanced dogs and knows what he's doing. I think his work is very important because a dog like this one has to be under 100% control or it will hurt somebody real bad.

[PrometheansFire]

Millan failed.

He wrestled the dog into helplessness, claimed he was submissive and calm and then gave the owners bad advice on how to handle the dog.

These people had to give the dog away because his methods made the dog worse.

[PrometheansFire]

@Ilsimeone, Millan failed, yet again. The dog only got more aggressive as time went on and these people were forced to abandon the do to someone else. It's idiotic to have Millan attack the dog and imagine the dog would not respond. That he finally drove it into exhaustion is not something to be celebrated.

[krujjer]

Cesar is undoutedly good, yet many concerns have been voiced regarding the way in which he "cures" dogs.  What if the dog misbehaves because of a medical condition, say, neurotransmitter imbalances? Yes, they also suffer from those ailments.

[ryguy000]

Alright this is killing me: the husband looks like someone, an old-movie actor.

It's not Don Knotts...but it's someone like that.

Please if anyone knows...it's one of those things were his face is in my mind but I just can't pull the name out.

[BlackWolfSoul]

another way to relax a tense dog.. to thoroughly massage the muscles.. i've seen dogs "pass out" or just slop over because it feels good.. this would be considered another idea for them to do and use on Jonbee :) .. might relax him a little more ^^

[PrometheansFire]

Another excuse for Cesar to use his misguided and iineffective methods. Despite the fake TV "ending" the truth is that the dog remained aggressive and was given away.

IOW Millan failed!

[Dazvat1]

Yeah right asshole. Ceasur failed? Lol. In that case what a great actor the dog was eh? You knob!

[PrometheansFire]

You fucking idiot. Jonbee remained aggressive that they had to give up the dog.

[Dazvat1]

Erm evidence to support your claim?

[PrometheansFire]

The Evidence is what Cesar Millan wrote in his book.

[bobjones27]

People don't understand the Jindo breed. The Jindo dogs of Jin island are NOT house dogs and never have been. They were always kept outside. The dogs also roam around freely on the island and often establishes boundry with each other with no relations to human boundry of fences. It's normal on Jin island for a dog to sleep on a neighbor's front yard.

A lot of Koreans love this dog for it's loyalty. But it's really not a good house pet for urban ppl. And NOT for ppl who don't know dogs.

[eyesea]

@bobjones27 i agree but they are also very much sleep indoor dogs even though they like to roam. jindos are hunters though and smart, they need to get out every day a couple hours and do some fun stuff. also lots of positive reinforcement. most important thing with the breed from what ive read is establishing the pack leadership and order, because they are pack dogs in the wild. very submissive to dominant members of the pack too.

jindos are great dogs tho versatile, loyal smart and sturdy

[paaloozaa]

@bobjones27

My aunt owns a purebred Jindo and he spends most of his time inside. She knows how to handle and train dogs well, and Pumpkin (the dog's name) is calm and good natured. He's content to play with his toys when he's not out on walks or playing with someone else. He shys away from strangers (characteristic of the breed) but isn't aggressive. Jindos need a knowledgeable and experienced owner, but they can be good house pets. Jindos are more adaptable than you give credit for.

[crysania4]

Wow. That guy is certifiably NUTS. "Don't say anything negative! The dog is going to understand what you're saying and react negatively!" Like most of the dogs on Cesar's shows, he's shut down. Wouldn't you if someone much larger than you shoved you down on the ground, threw you around, choked you, and leaned over you while you're in a vulnerable position? What planet does this Cesar guy come from anyway?

[Linke28]

Cesar milan é espetacular!

[futureRRB]

I read that Jonbee reverted back to his old ways later on.

[DogLover2113]

This dog wanted to kill anyone who touched him inside the home. Every other trainer recommended the dog be killed. Why do I not hear anyone saying killing the dog is inhumane, just people saying the way cesar fixed the dog was. Sorry, but Cesar rocks and anyone who thinks otherwise just has no clue about what makes a canine tick.

[lizzieodonnell]

Agree totally! Finally someone else thinks what Cesar did was not torture, but a VERY humane way of training. Yeah, the dog would MUCH rather be killed than to be choked for 3 seconds. :-/

[DogLover2113]

And in reality, the dog was not even being choked. Yesterday my neighbor called and said their German Shepherd bit a kid and was asking for help in getting him under control. We leashed up the dog and when we tried to walk the dog protested. He sounded just like Jonbee whenever we put the slightest amount of tension on the lead trying to get him to walk. He was protesting. He didn't want his Alpha position challenged. We were not choking him, but it sure sounded like we were.

[lizzieodonnell]

Yep, the dog was definitely protesting, it's not like Cesar yanked the dog up in the air, the dog's resistance caused it to hang itself. Anyway I'm glad Cesar's out there doing his thing, so many people love him and he's helped many people and you'll always have critics.. So keep doing what you do best Cesar :-)

[futureRRB]

I used to be a Cesar fan, But watching this without the sound, it looks just like abuse. The dog appears to be shut down mentally and exhausted. Poor dog. Cesar has some good methods, but the kind showed right here I do no care for at all and would never recommend it to anyone.

What type of trainers tried to train this dog before Cesar? I bet that no positive reinforcement trainers has tried this dog yet.

Don't get me wrong, I admire the guy in some ways.

[lizzieodonnell]

This goes along with you being the Alpha in the house. The dog is submitting only because it was acting as the leader to begin with. A dog with this kind of aggression(i.e. will attack/kill his own master) cannot be trained using only positive methods. Corrections are NEEDED, and sometimes that means letting the dog know that the only reason it is alive is because you allow it to be, and that any aggression will not be tolerated.

[futureRRB]

I KNOW that there are corrections needed, but not the ones Cesar used. I think that his corrections are often too extreme.

[lizzieodonnell]

Cesar was holding the dog and waiting for it to calm down, he didn't pop the chain or anything. The dog basically hung itself since it was struggling so hard. Cesar never physically abuses the animal and he's never punched a dog or popped it in the face for no reason. I think his corrections are placed appropriately, and he gives the proper amount of correction, in my opinion, which is also crucial in dog training. To each his own :-P

[LitleDusk]

Cesar's arm was way up in the air. Usually when something is being deprived of oxygen, they struggle.

[lizzieodonnell]

The leash was taut for control and mainly as a means of protection for Cesar, had their been slack there would be a better chance for Jonbee to bite him. Jonbee is the one that does the jumpingwhile Cesar holds the leash taut, and when Jonbee goes down of course the leash is going to be tighter while he descends.. A dog won't listen to someone he does not feel is in control

[LitleDusk]

The breed he is, the Korean Jindo, is an agressive dog to even begin with. They are loyal as hell if you gain their respect and they're quite smart, but throwing a dog to the ground and choking it until its ontgue turns purple is beyond being "in control". Many people consider their dogs as children in the sense of learning. They cannot reason like adult, but more so children. Imagine a large threatening stranger walking in, throwing you to the floor, and choking you until you can't function.

[lizzieodonnell]

You can't compare dogs to children in terms of training. Cesar did NOT choke this dog to barely functioning, not even CLOSE. Communication with dogs is nothing like communicating with a child, the only thing Cesar did was stress this dog, which I don't think is unreasonable at all. Where is the dog's tongue purple anyway? The dog is a danger to himself and to others, you can't always expect treats and a clicker to cure all behavior problems.

[LitleDusk]

If you look closely, can can see the dog's tongue is blue. It's pretty obvious considering several others have noted this on this episode, so it's not like I'm using some super, whacko sense. And in Cesar's book, it states this dog had been given to a rescue and sucessfully rehabilitated using positive reinforcement. You might as well shoot the dog, it has it's own genetics against it- And if this couple had rehabilitated dogs, wouldn't they know that the breed is prone to aggression

[thevivz]

Eu lembro desse episódio, fiquei :O

[Braccarius]

All the haters seem to miss the most important fact. Two other dog trainers failed to stop the dog's aggression and Cesar Millan was the LAST HOPE for the animal. His next stop was doggy heaven. Seeing the end result justifies the means even if you disagree with them.

[koreanbabii1234]

Breccarius: i totally agree with you. jonbee turned out to be a great dog in the end, and he wouldnt have been like that without cesar.

[koreanbabii1234]

*Braccarius (sorry for the spelling mistake)

[Somstress]

This makes me really sad. Also, this dog may have some jindo in it...but it's not purebred.

[koreanbabii1234]

no...this is a purebred jindo.

[Somstress]

I have a purebred jindo. JonBee is either a juvenile or is just too small to be purebred. He may have some shiba inu in him.

[koreanbabii1234]

yeah. i have two purebred jindos and my grandpa has a whole pack of them. JonBee's tail looks like a shiba inu tail, his head seems a little bit blocky, ears too seem a bit weird. his smallness really doesnt matter, because ive seen purebred jindos JonBee's size or some are A LOT bigger. but he is a jindo.

haha. my family refers to jindos that look like JonBee as a "gangster" dog--one that would be good at fighting but also a very sweet and good dog, kinda like the short, stumpy guy in mulan.

[sumkidd]

this isnt a purebread buddy.

REAL jindos with REAL jindo blood in it will fight for death kiddo.

so i guess if this was a purebred jindo, caeser just broke the legend of how Jindos fight till death. huh?

[koreanbabii1234]

hmmm. you do have a point.

BUT. the legend of jindos fighting to the death has to do with when they are defending a loved one or territory, etc. jindos are always more than ready and willing to sacrifice their life for family. this has nothing to do with whatever cesar is doing to jonbee.

jonbee fighting to the death against cesar would only show that he is aggressive and untrainable, which would only add to the bad reputation that jindos already have.

[Braccarius]

LOL... a legend vs. a legend eh? Cesar > Jindo

[Braccarius]

You said it exactly right. "Legend" of how an animal will "fight to the death". I guess every single Jindo that ever lived died in a dog-fight vying for dominance.... which makes you wonder how the breed is still around today.

[flamepeace]

He resolv the problem

this is what matter

[AlitaBirdie]

Ugh. Cesar is NOT a dog psychologist by any stretch of the definition. He doesn't even get basic canine body language. Sick.

[PrometheansFire]

I agree this is disturbing, basically he fights the dog until it shuts down. Because Millan doesn't know what he is doing he calls it calm. He often makes this mistake of mistaking lack of movement for a "calm submissive" dog

[nunpunter]

So he dominates the dogs intention until it "submits'?

Having a functional vocabulary, and understanding words will allow you to make your incorrect points much more intelligently.

You are right though, they should have put the dog down or let it kill a kid, wouldn't want to tire it out in a struggle or anything cruel like that.

[PrometheansFire]

No. He chokes and fights the dog until it goes into a state of learned helplessness. The wiki entry on it is pretty accurate.

If someone did this to you (ie someone a lot stronger) so that he held you in a choke hold, eventually you'd stop fighting - would this teach you anything?

It's stupid to suggest that the only two options were Cesar's cruelty or death. It's a false dichotomy.

[lizzieodonnell]

YES. and cesar did it the nice way. Another way of doing this exercise for handler aggressive dogs is to strangle it until it passes out, and do this each time it attempts to make a go at you. Cesar's a great dog trainer, and I commend him for not being scared to use proper methods for training. You don't expect this dog to submit by giving it hot dog pieces and coddling it, do you?

[daniellexxE]

"Happy"?

You have got to be kidding me. You can hear him gasping for breath. He didn't submit, he gave up. Anyone who knows the first thing about reading animal behavior would know that.

I wouldn't just stand there when some idiot's suffocating my dog, thanks.

[grai]

at the end the look of sheer **relief** on the dog's face that he finally had a leader is incredible

He doesnt look defeated he looks HAPPY!

[andredarocha]

Cesar is amazing!

[tullsjora]

He is a beast!!The dog is scared to death, and sometimes its better that animals with a bad start i life, and who dont trust people would be better dead..Sad but true.

Everything is about power, but i prefer happy, faigtful dogs!