Tool and Die Makers

[xB1GKILLERX]

how hard is it ima start soon

[Krenake]

Amazing... old Machine Shop....From 80's ??? What about the air quality?

[rickster348]

@Krenake "air quality"?? stfu., That's why all the jobs are in China.

[whimpyj]

my coworkers and i agree with your comments.I started out in a app. program in a factory in Tennessee in 1991. 20 yrs. later I'm in a little job shop building progressive dies from start to finsh and the stress is out of the roof. xzanex is my best friend now without it I would have a nervous breakdown ! whoo hoo love tool die work lol ,,, not!!!!!

[guruflorida]

What a bunch of whiners! lol. You guys are letting the a truly lucrative opportunity opportunity pass you by --- you guys can *make* stuff! Unlike 95% of the masses that can only consume. There is a huge MAKER movement going on throughout the Internet. People want to do what you do, so teach classes in your area, invent kits, invent novel tools...you'll sell way more of these than hot dogs!

If something changes...retool...you guys should know that already!

[Engineer245]

What a crock! She said "Those skills will always be in demamd," NOT! MontyCarlo you need to remember the next step is sourcing the parts in China! Black & Decker Power Tools are ALL made everywhere but here in the USA now. They already had been sourcing all plastic molds offshore next was Die Casting Dies. Next all parts. My job search turned up minimum wage. Too many T&D Makers and too few jobs. A real shame. I am almost 60yo. Nobody wants to retrain a relic like me.

[MontyCarlo1977]

I work in a tool and die shop for a major U.S. manufacturer that actually still makes products in the U.S. There are 5 tool makers in our shop and we just service our die casting and plastic dies. Our new tools mostly come from Portugal or China. Whenever we get a new die casting or plastic mold from China it has to be torn down and inspected for all the defects so we can fix it or send it back. The last one from Portugal wasn't even the right steel so it rusted as soon as it was open to air

[st8oftheart]

@MontyCarlo1977 OMG that's just crazy. Don't they have any quality control over there? The WRONG steel?!?!?.pathetic. Ya lets just make some cavities and throw it all together and hopefully they won't notice all the flashing.

[kenatlaw]

I want to start making some of my own technical rock climbing and scuba gear. Machinists all say there are no good quality tool and die shops in the U.S.; go to China. I am a lawyer and I patented 8 pieces of scuba gear; I went down to CA and no one was interested in making them. I guess my dream of a small shop where I make something with my own hands and sell it is not practical in this economy. Any input?

[DedhedWaldo]

@kenatlaw Ken, I have been a cold forging die maker for 25 yrs. and have a small shop of my own in back of my house. I'm in So. Cal. Drop me a line at AmericanAvTool@yahoo.com and maybe I can take a look at your prints.

Greg

[kenatlaw]

@DedhedWaldo I will try and get you those pics. THANK YOU. I'm in Las Vegas so maybe I can come down to So. Cal. if you think my ideas are feasible. I would love to see the day when products are made in the USA. A Nevada lawmaker wanted to wear clothes made in the USA but was unable to do so. Sad when you think about it. I will probably send you an email on Friday or next week. I'm very busy to say the least, logged on to You Tube to play some George Winston, saw your comment. THANK YOU AGAIN.

[DedhedWaldo]

@kenatlaw Great, Ken. I'll be looking foreward to your e-mail. I built my shop so I could do side jobs (die cases, soft tooling, etc.) for my day job at an airplane bolt factory but the old man sold the place to a corporation & now we get our cases from China. As an added bonus, it takes us around 5 months to get an order of cases shipped from there instead of the week (max.) it would take me to turn and heat treat them. I hope this works out for both of us.

[billob212]

I live and work in Ont. and was lured into the apprenticeship back in the late eighties.(recession) I was promised $100000 a year. 10 hour days. With my trade being sucked up by CNC programmers from Singapore. I look at the old guys who came after the war and were able to buy homes and raise families on canadian progress. Benefits and Pensions. Auto and Aero and Household production lines stamping out the world. Now everything is temp agencies that won't let you get past a contract.

[Engineer245]

When I served my T&D Apprenticeship I served four years, but then it took two more year to become a journied T&D Maker. With all tools and dies being purchased off shore a T&D Maker is nothing more than a sevice technician. AND with manufacturing all going off shore there will be only a few decent jobs lefft for Tool Makers here. Too dad. I told my dad that he live in the time of opportunity in the USA but it is now a land of lost dreams for the Tool Maker.

[st8oftheart]

I love being a tool maker. But with the way things are now I really can't see myself standing in front of a machine in the next 10 years. I think company benefits should include seeing a psychologist regularly..lol. What makes it fucking ridiculous is if some thing goes wrong with a mould, progressive die or anything for that matter, everyone points the finger at each other, cause it's NEVER a seasoned Die leaders fault lmao but hey thats what apprentices are there for, company cannon fodder.

[resources57]

Hi guys, you are all sooo right. After realizing the discomfort and BS and politics within the companies and that one does not get to see the sunlight for 10 hours or more...well it is just not worth it either way. The knowledge base is way to high for the return. Check some sales jobs and find out why so many retards make it to upper management. They want you at the bench nowhere else. Unions were necessary at times and still are, if they would just not cover all the unproductive employees.

[bailey2829]

thats a hell of a micrometer

[DeleteMeOnline]

Men I thought I was the only one was school'd in this trade bitch'in! I was shit canned by the government's civil service navy job promise,Both being denied pay for school and unemployment from the state in which I live while I was in school I was left holding the bag for a highly technical education which I cant use.3.5 GPA

[RenewableFuel]

@NineLifeFire Fucking shit job idiot shit head.

[Engineer245]

I was a tool & die maker for about 8 years. After working like a dog for low pay 6 to 7 days a week I decided to join the millitary. I used my VA Bennefits to earn my BSME. Now guess what! American doesn't need any 50 year old Engineers or tool makers. We cose them too much for health insurance and I am as healthy as a horse. What a great country America is ! I have earned the right to say American Corporations SUCK !

[geekworks]

both what the opening statement and dept24lt both say are true. name the industry that doesn't need toolmakers. and thanks to our economic policies they are a dying breed. so then what happens if we fix our economic policies? everyone knows that there aren't any toolmakers under 50. we don't need wind turbines, we need toolmakers and tool design types.

[TremontMC]

@geekworks I agree with you but I'm actually 47

[geekworks]

@TremontMC you're the only one :)

[kingmike40]

Look at history. When an empire loses its ability to manufacture it also loses its empire.

[austinsam5]

@kingmike40 

Very true!

[hardcoredx]

BTW, YOU HEARD IT HEAR FIRST - OIL WILL BE BACK TO $10-$15/bbl -which means the MIDDLE EAST DEPRESSION HAS BEGUN. SAY GOODBYE TO THE MIDDLE EAST,VENEZUELA, AND RUSSIAN OIL DEPENDENT ECONOMIES.

The US will become even more DOMINANT- unreal, the greatest economy in history.

[hardcoredx]

I heard the same garbage about China as I did about Japan in electronics and Russia's military might. Reagan bankrupted Russia and Japan has been in a 15 year recession. CHINA HAS A GARBAGE ECONOMY. Not only will China have one ugly recession in the next 5-10 years,the only question for me is whether they will have a depression or a Japan style like recession. Don't be foolish into thinking manufacturing jobs will stay in China. Manufacturing will leave China for somewhere cheaper- fact

[71bsab50]

Here in the UK Toolmaking was a very rewarding career in every sense of the word.

Along comes "communist" China and in cohort with western government/big business takes every manufacturing job it can in the west by fixing it's currency to enable it to make every material need for the so called 1st world at 3rd world prices. China is now the economic powerhouse of the world and the west is so endebted without a hope of escape until it resolves these issues of consumption without production. QED

[princesspinkbear]

TOOL AND DIE. Will be in a History Musuem in 20 yrs. Next 2 Steelworker and General Motors. !! Very Sad !!!!!!!!

[BenRichards87]

yup

[TheNorthernSound]

its depressing ... just got my licence two years ago... and now i am working for minimum wage :( trying to survive and pay my bills ..its hard to keep positive at times like these .. I thought i had a good career for myself.

[kzalldaz]

Since I'm starting college for this, I don't believe you one bit. You have to go to college for this and study like a bitch. How am I supposed to believe that? C'mon, tool and die is supposed to be $60,000/yr. For a starter like you, you should be making at least $20/hr. I worked low end slave jobs and made $12/hr when I was 15.

[TheNorthernSound]

what i meant by minimum wage is that i had to find a job not in my trade, because i have been out of work for so long. But things are looking up for me i got a job in a Plastic Injection Mould Shop 22/hr. good luck to you buddy

[trailblazer33079]

where the crap are you working at where guys in this trade make 60k a year!!! I have been in this trade for 12 yrs and am just now at $22 an hour. That is close to top pay in this area.

[kzalldaz]

What? No way. I'm going to college for this and it's so HARD and lots to learn. Why does the industry pay so little?

[trailblazer33079]

I really dont know. My advice to you is if you are not to far into college then change your major to something else. But if you decide to keep going in this direction, gear yourself towards the CNC side of it. Thats what I did. That, atleast in my experience, is where the best money is at. Manual machining is fast becoming a lost trade.

[st8oftheart]

@trailblazer33079 I couldn't agree with you more, Manual machining is becoming scarce. When I first started my trade it was all about quality,skill and pride. Then my company parked my ass in front of a CNC mill machine. Human error in CNC from the guys upstairs happens all the time. You only get one chance with a CNC machine, Manual machining you can catch mistakes and triple check it before it happens. While engraving a mould cavity my mill crashed in Z axis spindle and all, by program error.

[71bsab50]

Why does the industry pay so little?

One word...CHINA

Back in 1993 a consultant I know returned from China, his words haunt me to this day; "guys, if you had seen what I have just seen you'd be frightened to death" Toolmaking was identifed as essential to future prosperity. Resources allocated & the training of Toolmakers was a high priority.

Now compare your countries present financial state to China & ask yourself: Why do they have a massive & growing surplus and all we have is debt?

[briggenoniel]

What ever gets you thru the day kid. The manufacturing base in this country keeps going down and down and has since the first 12 years of the Bush rule. Oh remember we can get buy on being a service based society. Hows that workin out for you now. I have been doing this since your mom was a kid.You believe everything they tell you.......

[kzalldaz]

Its really got me thinking now. Yes. It is something I still want to master, but I was thinking that I should do another job on the side. At least its a way to make decent money out of the year. I should be ok. I'll have to make sure I plan wisely and set two jobs straight.

[briggenoniel]

No I am all for you learning such a trade. Even if you just do it for yourself and not for a job. Just dont believe all the crap they try to feed you.

[st8oftheart]

@kzalldaz yeah key word "supposed to be" what it boils down to is what the company is willing to pay you. Some pay more and vice versa. As far as college goes....they teach you "text" book machining and thats all fine and good. What makes it a skill is by sound,speed,coloring of the steel chips and adapting to different machining techniques for varying types of steel without the use of text book calculations ie cutting speed X 4 divided by the diameter. Carbide cutters will be your best friend

[tooldiefor]

I have read all of your comments and can relate to each. I am a tool and die maker by trade in Ontario Canada. What i thought was a good career move has turned me into a working poor position. My job involves too much stress for the wages earned. I had gone through years of schooling and sadly have come to the realization that it wasn't worth it. Dont get me wrong. I like the work.. but the stress level (the work/ retards/ bullshit) that comes with it just isnt worth the wages from my expriences

[trailblazer33079]

AMEN!!!!!!!!

[wel938]

@tooldiefor I also work In Ontario and agree fully. My company plans to never hire a tool maker hourly. The last 6 of us are there last mistake. They plan to hire sub contract for $20 and not pay benefits. The future of the automotive tool makers is not looking good. 

[austinsam5]

@tooldiefor

I am a tool maker in Michigan and total agree with you!

[st8oftheart]

@tooldiefor You are absolutely right!!! I myself am a Tool and Die maker in Ontario Canada. When I first started the trade at 16yrs old I was always told I would never be without work. I busted my ass in order to please my mentors. Dealing with the stress (the work/stubborn old school tool makers and the auto industry) was a nightmare. A friend of mine at work was fired for being .001" out of tolerance. He had a wife and a baby on the way. Companies don't care...its the money that matters most.

[AtellaWorks]

@st8oftheart

I am a retired tool and die maker from Ontario living over seas AT THE BEACHES!...lol. If i was starting today, I would never ever go into this business. I would buy 2 Hot Dog carts and make more money without having the government of Ontario with the hand in my pocket grabbing 50% OF MY INCOME!

[st8oftheart]

@AtellaWorks lol......the trade is mostly about production now. I have great respect for the toolmakers from yesteryear. The hot dog cart idea sounds pretty good....problem is I'd eat all the profits..lol

[Split10]

@tooldiefor

I am a qualified press tool and die maker and I have to agree with you about the stress part.

It's not such a big deal when your younger, but I guess as we get older we lose that dare quality and one little slip = £1000s wasted

I worked on spark erosion in the early days, and when your given a block of carbide that someone has already spend 40 hours or more working on, thats even worse...but I was young then and it didn't worry me as much.

Give this some thought before taking it up.

[dgwbuildwright]

@tooldiefor yea i understand how you feel. i was toolmaking for 36 years (plastic injection moulds). my value in the uk is only worth about £8.50 per hour. if you stack baked beans in a store and dont have any skills your value is £8.25 per hour. its purely academic anyway as the uk does not manufacture anything anymore anyway..

[kopellhinex]

CAPITALISM & COMMUNISM SUCKS..!!!

human beings still not equal specially in any form of government interference. No Politicians. No Bankers. No Drug Lords. No lawyers. No Gambling Lords. No Anarchist. No to rebel Politicians. No to Dictators. No Opportunist Lazy People. No King. No Emperor. No Sultanate. No Rulers. No Royal Families. No Criminals. No Elite Evil Minded People. etc. etc.

We humans need more freedom. We dont need any government anymore.. we are all free.!!

[tsdoom32x]

@tooldiefor what would you say to someone who is interested in studying CNC..is it much the same thing??

[dgwbuildwright]

@tooldiefor quite agree with you I am a toolmaker (plastic injection mould tools) 39 years experience. wages in the uk for this level of know how is very similar to people that stack shelves in a supermarket

[REGreenTeam]

With most toolmakers and machinist either out of work or paid the same wsges you can get at a McDonnels why would anyone evrn try to become one. There are less job prospects than at McDonnels ! ! ! It is too late. America has been flush down the toilet. Without manufacturing America is becoming a third world country. ALL major world powers have a great manufacturing base. Voila ! America has very little left. aLL so called service econonmies must service other economies and not their own ! ! ! !

[jesus424able]

Fuck U Dick

[braceman9020]

I am thankful back in the 80's when I served my apprenticeship that the senior journeymen taught me the trade. Today the company across the street has 30 Punch presses from 5 ton to 250,and hundreds of dies,today you walk thru it the building and you can here the wind blow across the metal roofing,and complete silence inside.His last metal stamping customer just left for China,and abandoned his tooling.

I think its time his customers Kia has a new

D2 4 post Hood ornament.

[rickster348]

Where you at?, I need parts! lol

[cosast54]

and the pay is crap for the know how and experience neaded to do a good job.

after 40 years as a tool maker I get paid less than a cook

[rick6393]

2 problems with training tool Makers a is 1 they take to long to train so many places won't spend the money 2 if you find a place that can use inexperienced help they may move to China before you get good at it.

[Dieselolds]

Its to bad with all the chinacrap these days.

[dept24LT]

I live in Meadville pa (TOOL AND DIE CAPITAL OF THE WORLD) I served my aprenticeship for the same company I still work for 17 years later. We were primarily a mold building shop up until 5 years ago. I went from running edm's and assembling molds to running 3rd shift cnc mill department with 15 mills running production machining and secondary operations on castings. The 90's were great. I would not encourage anyone to get in the trade now a days.

[hockeyphuck]

a dying trade...?

mabey...

but i've repaired some tools that have been built in china, and as long as they keep running those tools in North America, Die makers here will always have work fixing the shit they produce over there.

Another funny thing is, i recently repaired a MADE IN CHINA tool that stamps out a crossmember for the F-150...

buy domestic?? mabey the BIG 3 should look at keeping manufacturing jobs here.

[elvisjonesus]

"Will always be in demand" lol

Maybe if you happen to live in China.

[dept24LT]

We are a dying breed.

[Bevoin1970]

Im an ex Toolmaker time served and fully experienced in automotive tooling, jigs and fixtures. I now drive for a living because we could not compete with the far east. All I see now are guys such as myself who have a tallent and yet are not able to put it to good use simply because the money isn't there anymore. I still have all my toolmaking tools just incase, its in my blood and I'd love to get back into it someday maybe. Toolmakers are the unsung hero's in my book.

[StryperFanInNM]

I'm a press punch operator... I run the presses.

[mikanally]

I have had two jobs since graduating in 2003 that has anything to do with my field of training as a machinist. The first job was as a CNC mill setup/operator and was a blessing, I learned a lot in the year that I worked there, the second job is the one I have now, as a waterjet operator for a small family-run sheet metal company.

I would say to anyone who really wants to get into metalworking/machining, do it, but realize where the weak industries are and avoid them.

[cosast54]

Is that graduating from university?

[CorcoransMommy]

I've designed dies for 10 years now, in Michigan, and have seen almost every designer and builder I know be laid off at some point or another in the last 3 years. I wouldn't enter this trade these days, myself. All the jobs are going out of country. We can't compete with China, they have their workers LIVE at the factory, literally and pay them in "room & board" and a few pennys. I'm not exaggerating in the least.

[heathirving]

im so sorry to hear that mate,im from australia and im a toolmaker by trade and im now out of the toolmaking industry because of the same thing as you...jobs going overseas.

[cncmachiningzone]

well instead of tool and die you can get into CNC programming and machining parts better money and its more fun. ( i have my own shop and i'm very happy )

[markzb13]

so is tool and die makers a good program to go into or not? I was thinking about it but after reading all the comments i dont know.

[gogussy12]

hell yeah it's a GREAT program to get into. i am an apprentice tool and die maker, it's great if you like to work with your hands, and you get to learn a lot. plus it's gooooood money

[WellingtonBear36]

where do the tools that make the tools come form?

[BurningTirez]

@WellingtonBear36 cast iron yaaa

[WellingtonBear36]

where do the tools that make the tools come form?

[wesley11905]

I'm a tool & die maker for cub cadet (mtd) wiht 7.5 yrs. exp. I personally love my job no day is the same, we also have the freedom to create from our own designs and money isn't to bad ether 20++++ an hour.

[AmericanFabricator]

Offshoring, insourcing, outsourcing, illegal immigration is KILLING our trade.

[kpzrx]

remeber that this is a school video trying to drum up some business.

[hachie69]

I'm a maint. machinist w/ 8.5 yrs work exp and 1.5 yrs of trade school. My experience covers cnc production, pattern making and currently maintenance machinist.

I love my trade and the money is awesome IF you can find the right job and you have a wide range of skills. I work for a large blown film ext. company and the hourly wage (16.25 hr.)could be better but the overtime makes up for it.

I'm 32 and part of a dying breed. As older machinist retire the better jobs will open.

Be patient

[delacerdaa]

Do you know how to write G-codes and parts programming too? You know how to use cam or cad software?

[lowfreq58]

Always in demand indeed. I am not a certied toolmaker or even a certified machinist but have been doing that work over 15 years.

Every place wants to hire a class a machinst or toolmaker with 10 years experience, have 5,000 dollars of your own tools and start you off a 13.00 hr.

To hell with it. The amount of stress, responsibility ,etc is just not worth it, as posted earlier.

If your young and want a job in manufacturing go for maintenance!!!

[delacerdaa]

are you a CNC operator?

[delacerdaa]

Maintenance, as in repairing the machines?

[Rogue7892]

yeah, lots of work in maintenance, things always need fixing.

[Mustbesane]

I was planning on becoming a tool and die maker. But after reading I am wondering if I should go for tool and die or electrician?

[saltiballs]

I've ben a tool and die maker for 13 yrs,7 building and 6 in repair,I've found you just have to be versatile.But I'm in Canada and this whole expoiting third world countries for profit and labelling it as "free trade"if you ask my opinion I think it blows.Look at the recalls with toys?How many manufacturing jobs need to be shipped out? Out of a job yet?Keep buying foreign!Apparently shareholders are more important than the middle class.

[RomeTool1]

The time for 'Only Buy American' has passed. It's too late now. Bet you're wearing Chinese underwear right now.

[delacerdaa]

I think i`m wearing the Bruce Lee brand of underwear. WAATAAA!!

[funkeytoad08]

This is scary reading. I was just accepted into an apprenticeship tooling position at my company. I have been with this Corp almost 20 years now, the last 2+years as a plastics mold setter\operator. Is a $3 an hour raise worth all this training and years on an off shift?

[dfp7777]

If you want to do well in a business you should become one of the boys and work your way into a high position of responsibility like a manager or foreman or plant manager. If there not tight they will pay you very well close to six figures. But you'll have to give your heart and mind to the job. Make sure there a nice retirement promised if you can they could drop you if the company gets bought out.

[dfp7777]

Also, you can forget this industry, if your looking for stability. All manufacturing and this is especally true in higher payed jobs, are tied too close to the economy. Meaning layoff happen every few years. Unless you just happened to have started with the company early on. Like before 1983 for instance and still be there.

[dfp7777]

Hay pal (couter 2000) $35.00 to hand out rags is a rare industry wide. How about the tool maker making $21.00 hour as a tool II with 16 years experience. Paying 2000.00 rent plus utility's for a three bedroom apt.

[dfp7777]

I'm an ex tool and die maker. This is job where you need to know a lot, often work hours into the evening until the dies done and ready for production. In short you need to know the most and get payed the least. The knowledge to pay ratio broader than most jobs. I feel the compensation does not match the skill level. Not to mention the stress goes with it. The work environment often have slave drivers, bullies, schizophrenics, and thieves.

[homemedicmike]

I am an unemployed die maker and you are 100% correct. But don't forget the suck asses, back stabbers,favortism and nepotism that go along with the ma and pop shops.

[brung24]

This looks like a really good trade to get into judging from the video but when an apprentice comes into my shop and tells me he wants to be a toolmaker I tell him to RUN!!!I know that its really bad right now!I spent some time workin in Autotek in Puebla Mexico and some of these guys are getting 20 american for a full twelve hour shift as press operators! How can Canada compete????Why is the government allowing so many imported goods???

[couter2000]

Always in demand in China for $2.50 an hour....You can thank the unions for all this...You pay a big 3 worker $35 bucks an hour to hand out gloves and rags..I have no sympathy for them when they get laid off because they had it way to good over the years...They should be paid $18.00 an hour----$22.00 tops with no skills.....Luckily my tool shop is still busy in Windsor Ontario but there closing up all over the city....Last one in windsor turn out the lights.

[58woolyman]

Always in demand !!?? What a laugh...just try and get a Tool and Die job today in Ontario Canada...all our jobs have gone to Asai with no sign of return. I,m outa work like so many others. GOOD LUCK !!!

[homemedicmike]

I am too here in roseville michigan. What a joke, always in demand!