PART 1:These are the reforms i want from the current heathcare system : No annual or lifetime caps,no preexisting condition,tort reform,no aid to illegal immigrants,no end of life clause for seniors. And as a solution to the free hand out argument, well form groups of uninsured(managed by the state) rep. them as a collective and get group rates on insurance, just like employers do, so people still pay and with a collective bargaining ability the costs r kept down but people still pay premiums.
PART 2: People can afford $60 in premiums if they can afford a cell phone bill or cable. And those people who can't afford even that,for them plans already exist so nothing would change. So I dont care if you r a democrat or a republican, U can not tell me this does not make sense!? Don't you want the right kind of reform without the BS,and if so why are we not demanding it. Cancer does not distinguish between a dem. or a rep. so if you get it and you exceed your lifetime cap then what happens?
Part 3: I would love to hear from people and see what they think, but please try and think rationally before you reply. I have no time to spend reading the rants of the insane. let the debate begin.
Yes, health care needs to be reformed but robbing Peter to pay for Paul is not the answer. I do not make above $250,000 a year but I understand that the cost will be passed on, in one form or another, to the working class. Here is a thought… If you can’t afford health insurance get another job. My issue is not with the sick and dying. It is with the lazy that would have the same coverage at the family doctor’s office as I.
The healthcare system currently covers uninsured people whether it is through state programs or the hospital absorbing a loss due to non-payment. The people with health issuance and careers eventually foot the bill through higher premiums and taxes. This is our society’s problem! We have become a bunch of people who want something for nothing. I should not be forced to pay for someone’s healthcare, their mistakes, or anything else.
I am about sick and tired of being forced by the government to foot the bills of the greedy, the stupid, and the lazy. Health care reform, QE, Welfare, Earned Income Tax credit, and the child tax credit are examples. We are going to collectively sacrifice (socialize) our country to death. The person who does right by getting an education and has the ambition to achieve their career goals is being punished while those who lie, cheat, and depend on handouts are being rewarded.
Most of all, I wonder why we have to have a 2000 page reform in the first place. With that much print, there's going to be some crap in there that socks a wrench in there even if it could be a good idea. I liked the Republican alternative better, which included purchasing insurance across state lines, as you said would help, and give states the ability to create and innovate their own reforms.
Katy, you are an idiot. Doctors will drop like flies if this goes into place. Being one ready to leave if this goes into place myself. And yes, healthcare will be rationed and people will not get care based on policy, whether your head remains in the sand or not. Wake up and smell the coffee little girl.
It's also nice to see more people with the ideal that the providence of care to keep one alive is a god-given right. (sarcasm off)
It's not.
It's a proffession, a service, in a sense... as ugly as that sounds. LIFE is a right, but the service the doctor provides FOR YOU is not. It's a privaledge, one which requires sacrifice as a whole (taxes, rationing) or for individuals.
@LonghornathletE009 I believe exactly what I have argued for is collective sacrifice through taxes in order to provide a public option, which would look a lot like the existing Medicare and Medicaid programs, in order to provide an alternative to private health insurance. I don't believe health care is a God-given right. I do believe, though, that a humane society should be affronted by letting the sick and the poor DIE, not b/c we lack the resources, but b/c we lack compassion.
@LonghornathletE009 Collective sacrifice makes you sick? And leaving people to die because they're poor and don't have health insurance, when there is a solution that, when spread out over 300+ million people, is relatively painless on an individual level doesn't? Good to know you have our moral priorities in order. Protecting wealth over saving lives. Good for you!
@heartsleeve It's not that poeple are more concerned about a few extra dollars going to help the less fortunate. It's the idea that government is given more power than they already have to regulate our income and free trade. (medicine costs, etc). It is NOT the authority of the government to redistribute wealth from the rich to the poor, even in a manner of saving some potential lives.
@LonghornathletE009 On a final note: you don't understand the current health care system at all. You understand that you have health insurance, and either good health insurance or good health, so you don't have any complaints. All you care about is whether you might have to pay slightly more in taxes. How sad is that when people are more concerned with a few extra dollars coming out of their paycheck than they are with the fact that people DIE b/c of the current health care system?
Why is it that every time i watch these videos,they are always so polarized,its either free market with daylight robbery or democratic socialism. Why can't people see the middle ground and why don't the politicians talk about that.For e.g End of life clause bad,medicare medicate caps bad,BUT no lifetime or annual caps good,no preexisting condition clause,85 cents of every $ spent on the patient good,etc. i could go on and on. So my question is why r we not takin the best ideas & making that bill
@heartsleeve If charity and the non-profit hospitals, etc., aren't enough, then it's a moral decision for individuals to make.
It should never be the decision of a government to make a "collective sacrifice" for the people. Even if the majority of people like this health-care bill/system, it's still not the government's place to make that decision.
@LonghornathletE009 Why not? Governments all over the world have health care programs that are to some extent nationalized. Even ours is. What do you call medicare and medicaid? The fact is that charity has never, and will never, be enough to ensure medical care for everyone. So...the moral choice is between providing solutions to the problem or shrugging your shoulders and looking the other way b/c you can't be bothered.
@heartsleeve "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Ben Franklin said that.
The essental liberty is the right to reap the benefits of our work and NOT have the government redistribute wealth. That is a liberty. This is a fact.
And when we decide that the government has the authority to take that away for a "sacrifice from those who can afford it".
Again i say, this is an indivual decision, not that for the gov.
I wish you saw the big picture rather than pointing out small "errors" in the original video's concepts.
The idea that doctors have consciences and won't "pull the plug" is irrelevant. When the government pays their wages and regulates medicine cost, the government, in reality, makes the decision whether gramps dies or not.
It's also nice to know that you're ok with the rich and only the rich (250k+) paying for healthcare. And you were talking about having a conscience?
@LonghornathletE009 The problem is that the errors in the video ARE the overall concept. You argue that if the government is pulling the strings, they will choose whether to pull the plug or not. Um...health insurance already does this. Those without health insurance, those without quality health insurance, those whose insurance have been rescinded because of typos...many people already have the plug pulled because of INSURANCE COMPANIES.
@LonghornathletE009 The problem with the Supergenius video, and with your argument, is that you have no concept of how the health care industry CURRENTLY works, or that millions of people are already routinely denied life saving treatment because they don't the money to afford or the good health to qualify for health insurance today.
It's nice to know that you're okay with the poor and the sick being priced out of health care and left to die. Please don't lecture ME on having a conscience.
You do well to repeat the same things that the politicians do. As for needing medical insurance, etc., my self-employed father, who made a very moderate living, never paid for hth ins. Instead, he saved the money he would have paid for ins, and always had a nice healthcare reserve. We lived a healthy lifestyle and didn't run to the doctor unless it was clearly necessary. He paid cash for all of our medical care, and typically received nice discounts b/c of those cash pts.
As for taxes on the waitress, she probably does receive money back through her tax return, but this is AFTER she has paid taxes. Ultimately, everyone will pay for this program in one form or another, whether it's through fees, penalties, or simply higher medical and other costs. It may not be in a direct tax, but don't be surprised if it is in another year or 2.
Using the nobel prize to prove innovation is laughable. Considering Gore's selection, the nobel committee is nothing more than a group of obvious liberals and socialists who strive to make political statements with their choices. The fact that patients in Canada, foreign leaders, and wealthy foreigners often choose the US for significant treatments and surgeries reflects a lot more upon our innovation than the nobel prize does the innovation of less capitalistic countries.
The nobel prize does not necesarily correspond to innovation. Considering Gore's selection, the nobel prize has become quite a sham - a very poor example of innovation beyond capitalism. Why do patients in Canada, foreign government leaders, and wealthy foreigners come here for medical treatment? Because of quality treatment and innovation. You don't hear about members of Congress or our president going anywhere else for a particular surgery, right?
Thank you for admitting at the end that there will in fact be "death panels." You are correct that no one is going to actively kill anyone. However, treatment will be denied to people as a matter of policy, even though effective treatments would exist and be available to others, generally younger people. Second, you gratuitously discount the research efforts of private companies in developing new treatments, as well as the high cost of clinical trials to demonstrate efficacy and safety.
@platficker "End of life planning" is not a death panel. It's meeting with your doctor to discuss power of attorney if you should become incapacitated and whether or not you want to be resuscitated. If you say you want to be resuscitated, the doctor can't rescind that just because s/he feels like it or b/c the gov't says so. And I didn't discount private co's contributions to medical science. I simply highlighted where MOST of the innovation actually comes from. Sorry you don't like the facts.
regardless if what you think healthcare is like everything else you cannot bend the laws of economics healthcare is and always will be rationed. because of scarcity. Its about personal responsibility of taking responsibility for your own life. you just think insurance companies are bad because hey dont like to pay. wait til an entity like the gov doesnt need to care. they wont pay because theres not enough money coming in.
originally income taxes were only for the rich. c how that turned out
God, where do I begin in debunking this retarded video.. You're either begging the question on almost every point or using severe hyperbole. You libs are all the same.
If an insurance company is only interested in making money and is denying people coverage so they won't have to spend it, then everyone's gonna hear about it, and won't sign up with that insurance company.
That is not correct. Since the P.O. only covers a minimum. Not as much as a healt insurance would do. Is it that wrong to try to give everybody a minimum health care?
So you think it is right, that poor people (for instance a viet. vet) should die, since they cant afford a healt insurance`?
No I don't think it is right for poor people to die lol, that's rediculous...
I don't have a problem with fixing the health care problem, but the methods that the Democrats have proposed are wrong for the country and will have severe negative consequences...
The free market can lower costs and make coverage easier without drastically changing the way healthcare is done here...
Growing the government is not the answer, because it doesn't lower costs, raises taxes, and hurts the economy.
@TheEllipsis731 Well, Obama's health care plan is far from "socialistic", and I would know, since I leave in a country where it is. The problem with "the free market" in the us, is that it is far from "free". It seems to be more a collegial industry, where a higher cost is substained. This system has been uphelp for so many decads, why is there still so many people not covered with minimum health care? Regarding taxes? Stop finance currupt industries and bomb other countries.
I agree with you; but the reason that our free market is less free is because of the Democrats limiting competition... These high costs are forced by goverment... Also, there is no cap on malpractices settlements, which means that billions of UShealthcare costs are funding malpractice lawsuits instead of actual healthcare...
And regarding the "high" number of uninsured; it's actually more like 11 million, not 46 million...
Also, I agree we shouldn't be bailing out corrupt industries lol...
@TheEllipsis731 "Democrats limiting competition?" If I am not mistaken, bush is a republican, and in his first periode, the rep. governt the congress, also. The industries in the us is not regulated, since you have corpocrati, not democrati. High costs are maintainted, since the industries can do it. They know people have no other choise, so they can charge whatever they want. Malpractice? well, that is something wrong with your culture. 11 million is still a lot.
Democrats over-regulate and over-tax businesses... They punish and burden businesses with Unions and high taxes which drives up costs... It's what their party stands for...
And about Bush, just because he was Republican doesn't mean I'm a big fan of him... He wasn't very conservative at all fiscally, as you can see with the deficits...
All I'm saying is that these proposed healthcare bills do not fix the problem, and will waste billions more taxpayer dollars and not even insure everyone...
@TheEllipsis731 demo: with obama, the buisnesses experienced a very nice "bonus package" for fucking up the economi.
Well, candidates like bush, palin and mccain seems to repr. the repub.
What I dont understand is that why you're so against the healthcare, but not against the war. How many trillion dollars are you guys in debt because of it? the 10th of sep. 2001, pentagon couldnt justify where 2.3 trillion dollar had disappeared. Yes, it cant cover all, but it will reach out to more.
The one thing that I've failed to see from anyone's videos are references and source citing. Oh, and I work in the medical claims business and I see EVERDAY how critically ill patients are unable to get life saving procedures because government run HMO's are unwilling to pay, though I don't see it nearly as much in private healthcare and those who want to comment, don't give me any shit about medical neccesity being the determining factor. Malignant Brain Tumor=Necessary Surgery...end of story.
Bypass surgery (you know, the reason Bill Clinton and Dick Cheney are still alive) was invented by a doctor from Argentina, a country with health insurance (combination public and private) for all employed people and public hospitals which provide basic and emergency care for everyone free, with cheap and high-quality private care due to competition with public hospitals.
This doctor, Favaloro I believe, who invented the bypass, was so upset about how many poor people around the world were dying because only the wealthiest people have access to the best medical care and the most advanced medicines that he shot himself in the heart.
I LOVE YOU! FINALLY someone that makes arguments based on FACT rather than fear-mongering!
In addition, to add to your arguement about inovation. Canada INVENTED INSULIN!!!! and the mobile blood transfusion unit - inovations that have saved thousands and improved the lives of millions.
In addition, I love how comments have been disabled for "Super Idiot" - he only allows comments that agree with his small minded, idiotic statements.
I live in a socialized health care country and its called Spain. Socialism wrong? Where did u get that idea from? Army and military forces? Government owned and run! And in most countries, public transport, health care, electricity, water, Government owned. Get the pattern here? Unrestricted freedom is harmful. That's why we NEED a government to keep a watchful eye on people's irresponsibility. Although anything is bad if its taken to the extreme. But we are not talking about extremes, are we?
have you lived in a country with socialized health care? there is rationing, and if you refuse to acknowledge that there will be in a socialist system then you are in denial. Yes there are people that need health care in America, but SOCIALISM is not the way to solve that problem. Drug Companies and Insurances agencies are a large part of what makes health care expensive. If you believe socialism and freedom can be one in the same then your logic is very screwy.
France is a socialize country. Yet if your child gets sick in the middle of the night you can have a Dr at your house in less than an hour. Cost - zero. Hospital care - zero cost. Their paramedics? A Dr/nurse team that can perform almost every procedure while they are getting you to the hospital. Their people LIVE 3-6 years LONGER than us! Canada could fix their system (in a minute) if they would charge more than 100$ a month for health care. Spain - amazing care.
I don't want to be mean, but I kind of think super genius is smarter than you. I have seen his website. He has a masters from berkeley and had str8t A's when he was there. He now does all kind of corporate financial merger stuff which is something only really gifted people can accomplish. the name super genius shows that he has a sense of humar because he thinks of himself as this big strong super smart guy. I would like to listen to a liberal talk about health care, but not a dumb one.
That guy is from Berkeley? WOW - their standards are dropping. However, if his income is >250,000 (like his website states) than perhaps his arguments against health care reform have a conflict of interest. I'd sure want to talk Americans out of health insurance overhaul if I was in that 5%.
and yeah, Super Genius--who isn't clever or creative enough to think of a better name for himself--got under my skin as well. i was really angry watching it. it's all stuff that's been shoved down his throat by conservative economists and pundits. i've heard it all before. so annoying. complete bull shit. and by the way, when you say "bull shit," no need to say "pardon my French," 'cause we feel your pain. plus..."shit" comes from German, not French. you';re really neat. gonna subscribe.
i agree with the Obama-care plan, but you're wrong about just ONE thing--and everything else seems pretty on point--but where you're WRONG, is...we DO have a doctor shortage. you should visit Richmond, VA. MCV/VCU Health System is one of the LARGEST medical centers of the US. i go there all the time, and used to go everyday for treatment. they DEFINITELY have a shortage. i even asked some doctor's who are proud democrats about it. they said yes, there's a HUGE shortage.
"but you're wrong about just ONE thing--and everything else seems pretty on point--but where you're WRONG, is...we DO have a doctor shortage"
She actually addressed this. In certain locations there is a "shortage" because so few people in that area have health coverage that it limits the amount of Dr's that want to go there KNOWING they will not be compensated for the care they give.
no, but you don't understand, at MCV in VA, there is a shortage, BUT it employs more people than nearly ANY medical facility on the East Coast, yet there is a shortage. she's wrong about the shortage. THERE IS A SHORTAGE in public/state hospitals. big time. everywhere. the reason there isn't much of a shortage in private hospitals is because fewer people go to the private hospitals, so there is a better ratio of doc and patients. i agree COMPLETELY with "Obamacare," but there's a shortage.
Currently there is no official shortage. But I like how the bill is calling for more educational opportunities to get general practioners and nurses through school. This bill is looking to the future. Currently, young doctors graduate up to their neck in debt - a way to encourage people to go into the field is less debt upon graduation.
you're right: there is NO official shortage, but there isn't an official war, either. and yes, i heard about the encouragement for more to step into the field in this bill campaign, and already, more and more people are becoming medics of all types. that's a good thing. i think IF this health reform proposal passes...which i hope it does...we will have a lot of trouble in each hospital, and then, we will be FORCED to straighten things out, medical centre by medicical centre. gotta fix it.
Agreed - I was thinking they could offer bonuses/incentives for moving to out-of-the-way locations. Especially for young graduates it would be an excellent way to pay off some school debt and establish their practices.
My major concern is the nursing shortage - which is a current problem- but I see the increased funding helping with that.
The public plan is out the window and without that I don't see how this situation is ever gonna improve. Washington is broken, even with such a brilliant candidate who's whole campaign revolved around the idea of health care reform, not even a fraction of what has been promised has become a reality. I doubt there's anyone out there who can do better than Barrack which makes it even more depressing. His ideas were in the right track but America just cannot change unless Washington changes.
yeah, pal. i'm sad these days. no one's giving him a chance. i gave Bush a chance--didn't ever vote for him, but gave him the benefit of the doubt...and this new guy--he has GOOD ideas, but people aren't giving him a chance. i'm sad, but believe he will be defeated in 2012, but strike back with a win in 2016! look at Cleveland (22nd and 24th Pres.); Obama's the 44th...and hopefully the 46th, too! won't that be interesting? don't give up hope.
NO. where does JDV get his info, THE QUESTION IS WHERE DO YOUGET YOUR INFO. YOU SAY THAT THE PUBLIC WONT GET TAXED, but this plan will cost the government trillions, and the governmant will then tax us in other fields. so in the end, we get the fuck taxed out of us. at first I wasnt sure what too think about the obamacare, but after waching dozens of videos and debates, after listeing too the obama side stating the same unsupported, shallow "facts" and the other sidepointingoutthehuge gaps.(spa)
To Whipporwillss: Equal? Oh! You mean equality! Then We are talking about having an even distribution of income in a given society so that everyone gets the same chances in terms of consumption and opportunity. Isn't a progressive tax system THE mechanism used to achieve this objective? Why don't you try looking at the Gini coefficient and see for your self why a progressive tax system achieves equality and others don't? The poor are in need of more help so they should get it and that's it.
That was the sweetest thing I have seen in a while XD. i love you getting all emotional because I too got pretty sick of the things I hear out there ( Im just not able to express it in such a hilarius and brilliant way). Look at the data folks, instead of spitting out those long chains of incredibly incoherent bullshit. Love u, super obama girl with, with a magnificent brain. pardon my english
ok so its ok to tax the upper 1% more than the rest. would it be ok to tax the lower 1% more than the rest? you know if we are all equal befor the law. Artlicle 1 sec 8 and Article 1 sec 9 of the U.S. Constitution. I do understand we need reform, but there are better Constitutional ways to do it.
I live in Canada and I had to deal with end of life care with my father. It was just about what to do when he started to go, and how we could make him comfortable before he passed. They did not want to kill him to stop his suffering, he was listed as DNR(do not resuscitate) but that was his chose. The only thing that came close was that they told my mom if they wanted him to pass peacefully, when he starts to go don't call the paramedics because they might not respect the DNR.
but, i have a stupid question... if healthcare reform goes thru during obamas term, what happens if he loses the next election and we get someone who doesn't agree with the changes that took place? does socialized healthcare go away just as easily as it was brought in?
maybe...hopefully, the nation will see the health care reform work well enough for there to be lots of support for it...liek with Medicare and Medicaid. like the forty hour work week, and consumer rights...and so on....
We don't have enough money! Obamacare is going to destroy this country as well as our current healthcare system. We need healthcare Reform, I agree. Get government out of it! Read the bill girl stop reading propaganda...
Wow stop drinking the demo koolaid
pinkpiglet7681 7 months ago
PART 1:These are the reforms i want from the current heathcare system : No annual or lifetime caps,no preexisting condition,tort reform,no aid to illegal immigrants,no end of life clause for seniors. And as a solution to the free hand out argument, well form groups of uninsured(managed by the state) rep. them as a collective and get group rates on insurance, just like employers do, so people still pay and with a collective bargaining ability the costs r kept down but people still pay premiums.
Bhama100 8 months ago
PART 2: People can afford $60 in premiums if they can afford a cell phone bill or cable. And those people who can't afford even that,for them plans already exist so nothing would change. So I dont care if you r a democrat or a republican, U can not tell me this does not make sense!? Don't you want the right kind of reform without the BS,and if so why are we not demanding it. Cancer does not distinguish between a dem. or a rep. so if you get it and you exceed your lifetime cap then what happens?
Bhama100 8 months ago
Part 3: I would love to hear from people and see what they think, but please try and think rationally before you reply. I have no time to spend reading the rants of the insane. let the debate begin.
Bhama100 8 months ago
Yes, health care needs to be reformed but robbing Peter to pay for Paul is not the answer. I do not make above $250,000 a year but I understand that the cost will be passed on, in one form or another, to the working class. Here is a thought… If you can’t afford health insurance get another job. My issue is not with the sick and dying. It is with the lazy that would have the same coverage at the family doctor’s office as I.
bphil67229 11 months ago
The healthcare system currently covers uninsured people whether it is through state programs or the hospital absorbing a loss due to non-payment. The people with health issuance and careers eventually foot the bill through higher premiums and taxes. This is our society’s problem! We have become a bunch of people who want something for nothing. I should not be forced to pay for someone’s healthcare, their mistakes, or anything else.
bphil67229 11 months ago
I am about sick and tired of being forced by the government to foot the bills of the greedy, the stupid, and the lazy. Health care reform, QE, Welfare, Earned Income Tax credit, and the child tax credit are examples. We are going to collectively sacrifice (socialize) our country to death. The person who does right by getting an education and has the ambition to achieve their career goals is being punished while those who lie, cheat, and depend on handouts are being rewarded.
bphil67229 11 months ago
Great Job Debunking that Fox News Wanna B.
laryon 1 year ago
At least you allow comments on the video, that says something.
AForkSpoon 1 year ago
I like how he tries to use his "super genius" as support for him knowing the economy.
AForkSpoon 1 year ago
Most of all, I wonder why we have to have a 2000 page reform in the first place. With that much print, there's going to be some crap in there that socks a wrench in there even if it could be a good idea. I liked the Republican alternative better, which included purchasing insurance across state lines, as you said would help, and give states the ability to create and innovate their own reforms.
ShadowofaRoar 1 year ago
Katy, you are an idiot. Doctors will drop like flies if this goes into place. Being one ready to leave if this goes into place myself. And yes, healthcare will be rationed and people will not get care based on policy, whether your head remains in the sand or not. Wake up and smell the coffee little girl.
hooplaster 1 year ago
It's also nice to see more people with the ideal that the providence of care to keep one alive is a god-given right. (sarcasm off)
It's not.
It's a proffession, a service, in a sense... as ugly as that sounds. LIFE is a right, but the service the doctor provides FOR YOU is not. It's a privaledge, one which requires sacrifice as a whole (taxes, rationing) or for individuals.
LonghornathletE009 1 year ago
@LonghornathletE009 I believe exactly what I have argued for is collective sacrifice through taxes in order to provide a public option, which would look a lot like the existing Medicare and Medicaid programs, in order to provide an alternative to private health insurance. I don't believe health care is a God-given right. I do believe, though, that a humane society should be affronted by letting the sick and the poor DIE, not b/c we lack the resources, but b/c we lack compassion.
heartsleeve 1 year ago
@heartsleeve "collective sacrifice".... makes me sick.
I may not completely understand the current healthcare system as you claim you do.
I guess i'm more of a conceptual thinker and haven't looked into the details of an already flawed moral dilema, but let me put it this way.
I have no issue with caring for the poor or those who simply can't take care of themselves through charity and volunteers.
LonghornathletE009 1 year ago
@LonghornathletE009 Collective sacrifice makes you sick? And leaving people to die because they're poor and don't have health insurance, when there is a solution that, when spread out over 300+ million people, is relatively painless on an individual level doesn't? Good to know you have our moral priorities in order. Protecting wealth over saving lives. Good for you!
heartsleeve 1 year ago
@heartsleeve It's not that poeple are more concerned about a few extra dollars going to help the less fortunate. It's the idea that government is given more power than they already have to regulate our income and free trade. (medicine costs, etc). It is NOT the authority of the government to redistribute wealth from the rich to the poor, even in a manner of saving some potential lives.
LonghornathletE009 1 year ago
@LonghornathletE009 On a final note: you don't understand the current health care system at all. You understand that you have health insurance, and either good health insurance or good health, so you don't have any complaints. All you care about is whether you might have to pay slightly more in taxes. How sad is that when people are more concerned with a few extra dollars coming out of their paycheck than they are with the fact that people DIE b/c of the current health care system?
heartsleeve 1 year ago
Why is it that every time i watch these videos,they are always so polarized,its either free market with daylight robbery or democratic socialism. Why can't people see the middle ground and why don't the politicians talk about that.For e.g End of life clause bad,medicare medicate caps bad,BUT no lifetime or annual caps good,no preexisting condition clause,85 cents of every $ spent on the patient good,etc. i could go on and on. So my question is why r we not takin the best ideas & making that bill
Bhama100 8 months ago
@heartsleeve If charity and the non-profit hospitals, etc., aren't enough, then it's a moral decision for individuals to make.
It should never be the decision of a government to make a "collective sacrifice" for the people. Even if the majority of people like this health-care bill/system, it's still not the government's place to make that decision.
LonghornathletE009 1 year ago
@LonghornathletE009 Why not? Governments all over the world have health care programs that are to some extent nationalized. Even ours is. What do you call medicare and medicaid? The fact is that charity has never, and will never, be enough to ensure medical care for everyone. So...the moral choice is between providing solutions to the problem or shrugging your shoulders and looking the other way b/c you can't be bothered.
heartsleeve 1 year ago
@heartsleeve "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Ben Franklin said that.
The essental liberty is the right to reap the benefits of our work and NOT have the government redistribute wealth. That is a liberty. This is a fact.
And when we decide that the government has the authority to take that away for a "sacrifice from those who can afford it".
Again i say, this is an indivual decision, not that for the gov.
LonghornathletE009 1 year ago
@heartsleeve u made an excellent video, super genius what an oxymoron, or just a moron?
Bhama100 8 months ago
I wish you saw the big picture rather than pointing out small "errors" in the original video's concepts.
The idea that doctors have consciences and won't "pull the plug" is irrelevant. When the government pays their wages and regulates medicine cost, the government, in reality, makes the decision whether gramps dies or not.
It's also nice to know that you're ok with the rich and only the rich (250k+) paying for healthcare. And you were talking about having a conscience?
LonghornathletE009 1 year ago
@LonghornathletE009 The problem is that the errors in the video ARE the overall concept. You argue that if the government is pulling the strings, they will choose whether to pull the plug or not. Um...health insurance already does this. Those without health insurance, those without quality health insurance, those whose insurance have been rescinded because of typos...many people already have the plug pulled because of INSURANCE COMPANIES.
heartsleeve 1 year ago
@LonghornathletE009 The problem with the Supergenius video, and with your argument, is that you have no concept of how the health care industry CURRENTLY works, or that millions of people are already routinely denied life saving treatment because they don't the money to afford or the good health to qualify for health insurance today.
It's nice to know that you're okay with the poor and the sick being priced out of health care and left to die. Please don't lecture ME on having a conscience.
heartsleeve 1 year ago
You do well to repeat the same things that the politicians do. As for needing medical insurance, etc., my self-employed father, who made a very moderate living, never paid for hth ins. Instead, he saved the money he would have paid for ins, and always had a nice healthcare reserve. We lived a healthy lifestyle and didn't run to the doctor unless it was clearly necessary. He paid cash for all of our medical care, and typically received nice discounts b/c of those cash pts.
reasonableman123 1 year ago
As for taxes on the waitress, she probably does receive money back through her tax return, but this is AFTER she has paid taxes. Ultimately, everyone will pay for this program in one form or another, whether it's through fees, penalties, or simply higher medical and other costs. It may not be in a direct tax, but don't be surprised if it is in another year or 2.
reasonableman123 1 year ago
Using the nobel prize to prove innovation is laughable. Considering Gore's selection, the nobel committee is nothing more than a group of obvious liberals and socialists who strive to make political statements with their choices. The fact that patients in Canada, foreign leaders, and wealthy foreigners often choose the US for significant treatments and surgeries reflects a lot more upon our innovation than the nobel prize does the innovation of less capitalistic countries.
reasonableman123 1 year ago
The nobel prize does not necesarily correspond to innovation. Considering Gore's selection, the nobel prize has become quite a sham - a very poor example of innovation beyond capitalism. Why do patients in Canada, foreign government leaders, and wealthy foreigners come here for medical treatment? Because of quality treatment and innovation. You don't hear about members of Congress or our president going anywhere else for a particular surgery, right?
reasonableman123 1 year ago
Thank you for admitting at the end that there will in fact be "death panels." You are correct that no one is going to actively kill anyone. However, treatment will be denied to people as a matter of policy, even though effective treatments would exist and be available to others, generally younger people. Second, you gratuitously discount the research efforts of private companies in developing new treatments, as well as the high cost of clinical trials to demonstrate efficacy and safety.
platficker 1 year ago 2
@platficker "End of life planning" is not a death panel. It's meeting with your doctor to discuss power of attorney if you should become incapacitated and whether or not you want to be resuscitated. If you say you want to be resuscitated, the doctor can't rescind that just because s/he feels like it or b/c the gov't says so. And I didn't discount private co's contributions to medical science. I simply highlighted where MOST of the innovation actually comes from. Sorry you don't like the facts.
heartsleeve 1 year ago
We making 250,000 or less aren't paying - yet. I'm just waiting to see even more taken out of my check.
Magix1reaper 1 year ago
regardless if what you think healthcare is like everything else you cannot bend the laws of economics healthcare is and always will be rationed. because of scarcity. Its about personal responsibility of taking responsibility for your own life. you just think insurance companies are bad because hey dont like to pay. wait til an entity like the gov doesnt need to care. they wont pay because theres not enough money coming in.
originally income taxes were only for the rich. c how that turned out
carnivore2503 1 year ago
God, where do I begin in debunking this retarded video.. You're either begging the question on almost every point or using severe hyperbole. You libs are all the same.
mhaug123 2 years ago
I find it amazing how America spends more on health care than countries that have a universal health care system.
Not2Sane 2 years ago
If an insurance company is only interested in making money and is denying people coverage so they won't have to spend it, then everyone's gonna hear about it, and won't sign up with that insurance company.
That's it girl, that's it!
DKWtube 2 years ago
@DKWtube what do you do, if all the insurrance companies are like that?
Ko252 2 years ago
You start your own insurance company that's NOT like that.
DKWtube 2 years ago
@DKWtube of course it is. Do you really think the insurance companies are there to be humanitarian?
Ko252 2 years ago
The public option is unsustainable... we cannot afford it and here's why...
What kind of idiot would pay health insurance premiems while they're healthy, when the government garauntees coverage to them when they're sick?
Huge numbers of people are going to wait until they get sick, then hop onto the P.O., and let the taxpayers pay the bill...
When this plan fails you guys have no one to blame but yourselves...
You guys haven't taken ANY ideas from Republicans, at all... it's yours...
TheEllipsis731 2 years ago
Also, this whole plan is to kill off private insurance in order to "fall into" universal health care... Obama himself has said this...
Also universal healthcare has NEVER been implimented without going through rationing at one time or another...
The government has NEVER had a program that came out on budget... they ALWAYS cost more than they say they will...
If you are above a certain age, you can be denied care and/or coverage if the cost isn't worth short time you "have left".
ETC
TheEllipsis731 2 years ago
That is not correct. Since the P.O. only covers a minimum. Not as much as a healt insurance would do. Is it that wrong to try to give everybody a minimum health care?
So you think it is right, that poor people (for instance a viet. vet) should die, since they cant afford a healt insurance`?
Ko252 2 years ago
No I don't think it is right for poor people to die lol, that's rediculous...
I don't have a problem with fixing the health care problem, but the methods that the Democrats have proposed are wrong for the country and will have severe negative consequences...
The free market can lower costs and make coverage easier without drastically changing the way healthcare is done here...
Growing the government is not the answer, because it doesn't lower costs, raises taxes, and hurts the economy.
TheEllipsis731 2 years ago
@TheEllipsis731 Well, Obama's health care plan is far from "socialistic", and I would know, since I leave in a country where it is. The problem with "the free market" in the us, is that it is far from "free". It seems to be more a collegial industry, where a higher cost is substained. This system has been uphelp for so many decads, why is there still so many people not covered with minimum health care? Regarding taxes? Stop finance currupt industries and bomb other countries.
Ko252 2 years ago
I agree with you; but the reason that our free market is less free is because of the Democrats limiting competition... These high costs are forced by goverment... Also, there is no cap on malpractices settlements, which means that billions of UShealthcare costs are funding malpractice lawsuits instead of actual healthcare...
And regarding the "high" number of uninsured; it's actually more like 11 million, not 46 million...
Also, I agree we shouldn't be bailing out corrupt industries lol...
TheEllipsis731 2 years ago
@TheEllipsis731 "Democrats limiting competition?" If I am not mistaken, bush is a republican, and in his first periode, the rep. governt the congress, also. The industries in the us is not regulated, since you have corpocrati, not democrati. High costs are maintainted, since the industries can do it. They know people have no other choise, so they can charge whatever they want. Malpractice? well, that is something wrong with your culture. 11 million is still a lot.
Ko252 2 years ago
Democrats over-regulate and over-tax businesses... They punish and burden businesses with Unions and high taxes which drives up costs... It's what their party stands for...
And about Bush, just because he was Republican doesn't mean I'm a big fan of him... He wasn't very conservative at all fiscally, as you can see with the deficits...
All I'm saying is that these proposed healthcare bills do not fix the problem, and will waste billions more taxpayer dollars and not even insure everyone...
TheEllipsis731 2 years ago
@TheEllipsis731 demo: with obama, the buisnesses experienced a very nice "bonus package" for fucking up the economi.
Well, candidates like bush, palin and mccain seems to repr. the repub.
What I dont understand is that why you're so against the healthcare, but not against the war. How many trillion dollars are you guys in debt because of it? the 10th of sep. 2001, pentagon couldnt justify where 2.3 trillion dollar had disappeared. Yes, it cant cover all, but it will reach out to more.
Ko252 2 years ago
You should run for office some day. good luck
safaval1 2 years ago
The one thing that I've failed to see from anyone's videos are references and source citing. Oh, and I work in the medical claims business and I see EVERDAY how critically ill patients are unable to get life saving procedures because government run HMO's are unwilling to pay, though I don't see it nearly as much in private healthcare and those who want to comment, don't give me any shit about medical neccesity being the determining factor. Malignant Brain Tumor=Necessary Surgery...end of story.
dottore1234 2 years ago
malignant brain turmo=necessary surgery... wrong. if it is brain stem, surgery would not do. or if grandma is 92 years old.
Ko252 2 years ago
Are you first in line for the FEMA camps?
ryanrayonec 2 years ago
Bypass surgery (you know, the reason Bill Clinton and Dick Cheney are still alive) was invented by a doctor from Argentina, a country with health insurance (combination public and private) for all employed people and public hospitals which provide basic and emergency care for everyone free, with cheap and high-quality private care due to competition with public hospitals.
Capitalocracy 2 years ago
This doctor, Favaloro I believe, who invented the bypass, was so upset about how many poor people around the world were dying because only the wealthiest people have access to the best medical care and the most advanced medicines that he shot himself in the heart.
Capitalocracy 2 years ago
lol You and I both just wasted 7 min & 42 sec of our respective lives.
deejayEvA 2 years ago
I LOVE YOU! FINALLY someone that makes arguments based on FACT rather than fear-mongering!
In addition, to add to your arguement about inovation. Canada INVENTED INSULIN!!!! and the mobile blood transfusion unit - inovations that have saved thousands and improved the lives of millions.
In addition, I love how comments have been disabled for "Super Idiot" - he only allows comments that agree with his small minded, idiotic statements.
Kikkipriest 2 years ago
I live in a socialized health care country and its called Spain. Socialism wrong? Where did u get that idea from? Army and military forces? Government owned and run! And in most countries, public transport, health care, electricity, water, Government owned. Get the pattern here? Unrestricted freedom is harmful. That's why we NEED a government to keep a watchful eye on people's irresponsibility. Although anything is bad if its taken to the extreme. But we are not talking about extremes, are we?
KaosSinner 2 years ago
have you lived in a country with socialized health care? there is rationing, and if you refuse to acknowledge that there will be in a socialist system then you are in denial. Yes there are people that need health care in America, but SOCIALISM is not the way to solve that problem. Drug Companies and Insurances agencies are a large part of what makes health care expensive. If you believe socialism and freedom can be one in the same then your logic is very screwy.
Xenocide707 2 years ago
France is a socialize country. Yet if your child gets sick in the middle of the night you can have a Dr at your house in less than an hour. Cost - zero. Hospital care - zero cost. Their paramedics? A Dr/nurse team that can perform almost every procedure while they are getting you to the hospital. Their people LIVE 3-6 years LONGER than us! Canada could fix their system (in a minute) if they would charge more than 100$ a month for health care. Spain - amazing care.
Kikkipriest 2 years ago
I don't want to be mean, but I kind of think super genius is smarter than you. I have seen his website. He has a masters from berkeley and had str8t A's when he was there. He now does all kind of corporate financial merger stuff which is something only really gifted people can accomplish. the name super genius shows that he has a sense of humar because he thinks of himself as this big strong super smart guy. I would like to listen to a liberal talk about health care, but not a dumb one.
cheatermoves 2 years ago
That guy is from Berkeley? WOW - their standards are dropping. However, if his income is >250,000 (like his website states) than perhaps his arguments against health care reform have a conflict of interest. I'd sure want to talk Americans out of health insurance overhaul if I was in that 5%.
Kikkipriest 2 years ago
and yeah, Super Genius--who isn't clever or creative enough to think of a better name for himself--got under my skin as well. i was really angry watching it. it's all stuff that's been shoved down his throat by conservative economists and pundits. i've heard it all before. so annoying. complete bull shit. and by the way, when you say "bull shit," no need to say "pardon my French," 'cause we feel your pain. plus..."shit" comes from German, not French. you';re really neat. gonna subscribe.
HowDaddyIsDoing 2 years ago
i agree with the Obama-care plan, but you're wrong about just ONE thing--and everything else seems pretty on point--but where you're WRONG, is...we DO have a doctor shortage. you should visit Richmond, VA. MCV/VCU Health System is one of the LARGEST medical centers of the US. i go there all the time, and used to go everyday for treatment. they DEFINITELY have a shortage. i even asked some doctor's who are proud democrats about it. they said yes, there's a HUGE shortage.
HowDaddyIsDoing 2 years ago
"but you're wrong about just ONE thing--and everything else seems pretty on point--but where you're WRONG, is...we DO have a doctor shortage"
She actually addressed this. In certain locations there is a "shortage" because so few people in that area have health coverage that it limits the amount of Dr's that want to go there KNOWING they will not be compensated for the care they give.
Kikkipriest 2 years ago
no, but you don't understand, at MCV in VA, there is a shortage, BUT it employs more people than nearly ANY medical facility on the East Coast, yet there is a shortage. she's wrong about the shortage. THERE IS A SHORTAGE in public/state hospitals. big time. everywhere. the reason there isn't much of a shortage in private hospitals is because fewer people go to the private hospitals, so there is a better ratio of doc and patients. i agree COMPLETELY with "Obamacare," but there's a shortage.
HowDaddyIsDoing 2 years ago
Currently there is no official shortage. But I like how the bill is calling for more educational opportunities to get general practioners and nurses through school. This bill is looking to the future. Currently, young doctors graduate up to their neck in debt - a way to encourage people to go into the field is less debt upon graduation.
Kikkipriest 2 years ago
you're right: there is NO official shortage, but there isn't an official war, either. and yes, i heard about the encouragement for more to step into the field in this bill campaign, and already, more and more people are becoming medics of all types. that's a good thing. i think IF this health reform proposal passes...which i hope it does...we will have a lot of trouble in each hospital, and then, we will be FORCED to straighten things out, medical centre by medicical centre. gotta fix it.
HowDaddyIsDoing 2 years ago
Agreed - I was thinking they could offer bonuses/incentives for moving to out-of-the-way locations. Especially for young graduates it would be an excellent way to pay off some school debt and establish their practices.
My major concern is the nursing shortage - which is a current problem- but I see the increased funding helping with that.
Kikkipriest 2 years ago
The public plan is out the window and without that I don't see how this situation is ever gonna improve. Washington is broken, even with such a brilliant candidate who's whole campaign revolved around the idea of health care reform, not even a fraction of what has been promised has become a reality. I doubt there's anyone out there who can do better than Barrack which makes it even more depressing. His ideas were in the right track but America just cannot change unless Washington changes.
KaosSinner 2 years ago
yeah, pal. i'm sad these days. no one's giving him a chance. i gave Bush a chance--didn't ever vote for him, but gave him the benefit of the doubt...and this new guy--he has GOOD ideas, but people aren't giving him a chance. i'm sad, but believe he will be defeated in 2012, but strike back with a win in 2016! look at Cleveland (22nd and 24th Pres.); Obama's the 44th...and hopefully the 46th, too! won't that be interesting? don't give up hope.
HowDaddyIsDoing 2 years ago
NO. where does JDV get his info, THE QUESTION IS WHERE DO YOUGET YOUR INFO. YOU SAY THAT THE PUBLIC WONT GET TAXED, but this plan will cost the government trillions, and the governmant will then tax us in other fields. so in the end, we get the fuck taxed out of us. at first I wasnt sure what too think about the obamacare, but after waching dozens of videos and debates, after listeing too the obama side stating the same unsupported, shallow "facts" and the other sidepointingoutthehuge gaps.(spa)
TongBoi2 2 years ago
the new super genius
cjms08 2 years ago
To Whipporwillss: Equal? Oh! You mean equality! Then We are talking about having an even distribution of income in a given society so that everyone gets the same chances in terms of consumption and opportunity. Isn't a progressive tax system THE mechanism used to achieve this objective? Why don't you try looking at the Gini coefficient and see for your self why a progressive tax system achieves equality and others don't? The poor are in need of more help so they should get it and that's it.
KaosSinner 2 years ago
That was the sweetest thing I have seen in a while XD. i love you getting all emotional because I too got pretty sick of the things I hear out there ( Im just not able to express it in such a hilarius and brilliant way). Look at the data folks, instead of spitting out those long chains of incredibly incoherent bullshit. Love u, super obama girl with, with a magnificent brain. pardon my english
KaosSinner 2 years ago
ok so its ok to tax the upper 1% more than the rest. would it be ok to tax the lower 1% more than the rest? you know if we are all equal befor the law. Artlicle 1 sec 8 and Article 1 sec 9 of the U.S. Constitution. I do understand we need reform, but there are better Constitutional ways to do it.
whippoorwillss 2 years ago
hes obviously not a supergenius just look at it he just looks like a retarded jock
thebuzdar 2 years ago
hey guess what, that retarded jock went too law school, and probably makes 4X mor money than you do. hes a buesness man who has fun on the weekends,
TongBoi2 2 years ago
I live in Canada and I had to deal with end of life care with my father. It was just about what to do when he started to go, and how we could make him comfortable before he passed. They did not want to kill him to stop his suffering, he was listed as DNR(do not resuscitate) but that was his chose. The only thing that came close was that they told my mom if they wanted him to pass peacefully, when he starts to go don't call the paramedics because they might not respect the DNR.
fireflygirl246 2 years ago
love your videos. i agree what you say 100%.
but, i have a stupid question... if healthcare reform goes thru during obamas term, what happens if he loses the next election and we get someone who doesn't agree with the changes that took place? does socialized healthcare go away just as easily as it was brought in?
pain303 2 years ago
maybe...hopefully, the nation will see the health care reform work well enough for there to be lots of support for it...liek with Medicare and Medicaid. like the forty hour work week, and consumer rights...and so on....
HowDaddyIsDoing 2 years ago
lovelovelovelove the video.
Good job, that was 8 minutes of my life well spent :)
TheRealDropkickDog 2 years ago
We don't have enough money! Obamacare is going to destroy this country as well as our current healthcare system. We need healthcare Reform, I agree. Get government out of it! Read the bill girl stop reading propaganda...
Mruiz201 2 years ago
I wasn't addressing the bill. I was addressing the lies in "Super genius"'s video. But thanks for watching.
heartsleeve 2 years ago
You are fully awesome.
And so is socialized health care. I love being a swede! :)
afredrik 2 years ago