SCCC's Texas State University Chapter on NBC Nightly News

[leatherneck2044]

Fighting crime by banning guns is like fighting drugs by banning pharmacies.

[canisdormit]

When the crisis happens you don't rise to the occasion, you fall back on your level of training. For most that means you will fall back on fear and nothing, and you might die. For those with weapons training (concealed permits) you at least have a fighting chance, people may still die but at least you have a chance. Military and x-military would have the training to possibly react the best. The bottom line is that most people can't defend themselves, but they shouldn't deny those who can.

[Rhythmicons]

Fear doesn't paralyze EVERYONE. Maybe that woman would freeze or panic in a crisis situation, but generally the type of person who goes through the procedures to get a CHL is already mentally preparing themselves for such situations. Someone who is proactive enough to carry a firearm for self defense isn't going to urinate on themselves when the SHTF!

If you already carry a gun, you are already hyper aware of your surrondings and anticipate, even on the subconscious level, a suprise attack.

[cloudvszell]

@Rhythmicons so in other words your paranoid of your surroundings

[Rhythmicons]

@cloudvszell Nope, its more of a "Id rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it" sort of thing.

The thing is, I disarm to go to places like school, the bank, church, etc, and then come home and hear on the news "Another School/Church/Bank/City Hall shooting occured today.

Noone can defend my life like I can, no board of trustee member or law maker is going to step in front of a bullet to save a student. I don't want to outsource my safety to someone who might not be there.

[cloudvszell]

@Rhythmicons well im glad that you didn't say the words that piss me off the most about gun owners claiming it for self defense but you have to understand that the more guns that are created the more likely a mentally unstable person is going to have accesses to them i believe that certain members of society should have the right to bear arms but not everyone!

[Rhythmicons]

The Mentally unstable argument gets into some extremely grey areas. From a clinical standpoint, what is "Mentally unstable"? Some of those people you can't make them take their meds. If they want to stab someone they will do it with a knife, take the knives away, they use a screwdriver. If someone wants to really kill someone, they don't need a gun, right? You can kill someone with your shoestrings or your carkeys.

My argument is, laws affect law abiding citizens.

[Rhythmicons]

If someone decides they want to kill someone, a "No guns allowed" sign ANYWHERE is irrelevant. They aren't going to obey one law to commit a more serious crime. If all guns were banned, only law abiding citizens would turn theirs in. Then, police and criminals would be the only ones armed. Laws need to give the good people (you and me) a choice. As a chl holder who is in college, I think about how betrayed I would feel if I had to reach for an empty holster in a crisis because i obey the law.

[Rhythmicons]

And not everyone CAN bear arms. people under 21, felons, people with documented psychological histories. SCCC doesn't want ANYONE carrying guns into schools, but people who are licensed. This is 1% of the population of states that issue licenses. Were not talking a massive influx of guns in schools.

[Rhythmicons]

@cloudvszell Being aware of your surrondings is positive mental survival training, not paranoia. THere are osme people who walk around oblivious to the dangers of the world and think "This will never happen to me" but the law of averages always comes around and makes people into statistics.

[cloudvszell]

@Rhythmicons the reason i said your paranoid is because ,

"you are already hyper aware of your surrondings and anticipate, even on the subconscious level, a suprise attack."

this to me shows some one who is either looking for an excuse to fire his weapon or is way to cautious in thinking that i could be attacked at any moment so i need my gun all the time that'sbeing paranoid its a fear of being attacked

[Rhythmicons]

Man, I understand this issue can be very polarizing and can involve everyones emotions. But, its easy to read whatever you want into my statement. I am proactive, vigilant, prepared for a situation. I train in martial arts also, so yeah, Im always looking, trained to expect the unexpected. Paranoia, to me is when it affects you on a level that is disabling to some degree, when you DON'T engage in activities or are truly fearful.

[Rhythmicons]

I do have to stress though that the last thing that I ever want to do is to use a technique or to have to take a life to protect my own, but Im willing. I mean, seriously, I don't ever want to have to shoot someone. Just because I carry a gun doesn't mean that Im eager to use it. If I can avoid, thats what Im going to do. But when you go to school and some asshole wants to prove a point by shooting up the class, its hard to avoid that. I don't want my choices made for me or my tools taken away.

[Rhythmicons]

I don't see it as, "Im so afraid that i need a gun" I just see it like "This town is so messed up, the economy is screwed, people are desperate, christmas time is near (when crimes increase) It probably woudln't be a bad idea to have some protection in case I might need it.

Thanks for the dialogue.

Respectfully,

Eric

Rhythmicons

Former SCCC Campus Leader

[ginjaninja1988]

That lady (the mother of the shot daughter) is a fool. Personally I would rather be armed when a madman comes through the door. I thought that made logical sense; if ur armed u have a chance of stopping him. If not u stand no chance whatsoever and u and ur friends will die. As for gripping fear stopping u.... well imagine where the world would be if we were all scared of evil men and besides a citizen can train and the only difference betweeen them and a cop is the uniform.

[Rhythmicons]

SOme citizens actually have more range time than police officers also and are much better shots.

[drumminshooter]

"A student with a concealed gun is no match for a guy with 2 guns and the element of surprise"...I wonder how surprised he would be if he walked into a gun-free zone(aka a free killing zone) and had a student start shooting back...now thats element of surprise. And I am pretty sure it doesnt matter if you have 2 guns or 20 if you are laying dead on the floor because someone was prepared.

[09khill]

it's news like this that makes me loathe coming home to the states....guns at school? the fact that it's even being considered disturbs me.

[militarysims]

I can see this will turn into a he said she said. Say what you want. It will never happen. if it does people will change the laws so schools cant get funding and so on. just like states with No seat belt laws.

[YllwFvrPB]

its already happened if you havent noticed.

[militarysims]

The whole point of concealed carry is so you can Defend your self. No be Rambo and go gun down the gun man your self. I mean there are goods and bad's to CC on campus. If there is a class room shooting and you cant get out yes you can defend your self. But if the gun man is not near you Students with CC permits should run and take cover. Not play Rambo/ try and be the hero and try and shot it out with the gun man. That's what we have POLICE FOR. We have kids running around with guns.

[Rhythmicons]

Yeah, if there is a campus shooting, im not trained to hunt down an active shooter, but I can most definately defend the room!

[militarysims]

It's a good idea but in the end it would do little to stop any thing. As if some one is Maxed out on drugs and feeling no pain, as well as body armor, high power rifles,shot guns and and so on. You are going to do little but piss them off with a hand gun. If some one has a AR-15 they are going to shoot you long before you get in range to use your hand gun.

[Douva]

How many campus shootings have we seen with AR-15s or body armor? Recent high-profile campus shootings have all taken place inside classrooms, with the shooters well within pistol range of their victims. In fact, The VT and NIU shooters used pistols.

If you're referring to a sniper situation, such as the 1966 University of Texas attack, the best course of action for a concealed handgun license holder in that situation would be to take cover and be prepared to act if the shooter approaches.

[jimitl5]

"As if some one is Maxed out on drugs and feeling no pain,"

You are assuming things that may or may not be true. Unarmed you have NO chance.

[CalibratedPh33r]

Do you absolutely think that if someone os maxed out on drungs no pain, that they would be seriously smart enough to put on body armor, and find a way to get an AR-15?

[Rhythmicons]

If someone has an ar15 indoors they are wel within pistol range. Generally school shooters don't get too far past the front door with those types of weapons and armor though. Thats more os an outdoor/sniper situation.

[kellymentez]

The Lady's counter argument was the worst one i've ever seen. I can't imagine being so scared of a gun that i can't even pick up my gun.

[syndicatedcolors]

Texas State needs to keep this position down. We can't have armed students on campus.

[TheStapleGunKid]

Yes, we want Colleges to be filled with defenseless victims who can be slaughtered at a moment's notice whenever some loser decides to take his frustration out on the world.

Gun Free Zone = Mass murderer's paradise.

[Douva]

Why should students keep the position down? Why can't you have armed students on campus?

[dihappy]

Rah Rah for Texas State and Mike!

Wish i was still living in good ole SM :P

I may not be able to carry on campus yet, but i carry my .45 Kimber every where else i go :P

[cptnshorty]

Oh my god! No! I am leaving for this school in 20 days, and talk about a f-ing stereotype!

[patrick8shimek]

Here is a little fact for you Guzman. UPD has stopped a student before they got to campus with a loaded weapon before.

[ConcealedCampus]

If you would be so kind as to provide a source for that claim.

If it is true, then good! Admirable work by all officials involved, and no mistake. But officials didn't stop the other recent half-dozen college shootings, and can't stop every one. We shouldn't depend on them completely for our security - and shouldn't be deprived of our own ability to defend ourselves.

[patrick8shimek]

It was from the police chief mouth a few years ago at a police awards luncheon. what happens when someone steals someones gun in class and kills someone. Maybe even an accidental discharge in class that injures someone.

[ConcealedCampus]

First of all, this is Students for *Concealed* Carry. The fact that a certain someone is carrying should not be known until the need for defense presents itself, therefore they won't know to steal it. And anyway, if you're wanting to get hold of a weapon to go on a shooting spree, don't you think there are better ways than trying to attack someone who is armed?

11 schools in the US already allow concealed carry, no accidental discharges reported. It's VERY unlikely to happen.

[patrick8shimek]

I agree with the notion to defend oneself from a crazy shooter. I would just like to know what precautions are being taken at the schools where concealed guns are legal? Every story I have read about someone ending a shooting spree has retreived a gun from a safe place. The Texas Legislature should only pass a bill with measure to insure that concealed carriers be registered with the universtiy police along with their schedules. Only be allowed to carry the fire arm unloaded.

[TheStapleGunKid]

The precautions are that anyone who wants to carry on campus must have a CCW permit, which requires them to be 21 years old, pass a criminal background check, and undergo firearms training. These precaution have been effective, as there have been no problems with this policy at any campus where CCW is allowed.

Requiring CCW holders to carry their guns unloaded would be a bad idea. It would give a killer a huge advantage over citizens trying to stop him, which is contrary to the point of CCW.

[patrick8shimek]

Having a clip out of the hand gun would only take a second to load and fire. Is that too much to ask? This would allow anyone around a concealed hand gun to feel safer if a one in a million chance misfire were to occur. You should have the chance to defend you and maybe even me in shooting spree but would leaving a clip out that much of a difference?

[TheStapleGunKid]

Do the cops carry their duty weapons unloaded? Of course not! Semi-auto guns can be loaded in seconds, but in a deadly force situation, every second counts, and those extra seconds can mean more lost lives.

By "misfire" I assume you mean "accidental discharge" (something different).  But guns don't just go off when they are in a holster. The only way they go off is if you pull the trigger. So if you handle the gun properly (something CCW holders are trained to do), there is no risk.

[Rhythmicons]

I carry with a round in the chamber, called condition 1. If you have ever shot in the IDPA, those guys can draw and fire in 1-1.5 seconds. It might take ME 1.5 seconds to put the mag in, and another .5 seconds to chamber a round. If the shooter has the element of suprise, those are prescious moments lost. When you add the adrenaline rush to the mix, it might take longer. Id hate to drop my mag.

We don't apply for a handgun license to carry around unloaded firearms. It defeats the purpose.

[Rhythmicons]

Now the isreili army carried with no round in the chamber, but it still takes an extra second to chamber the round.

If you know how those IDPA guys shoot, they can hit 3 center of mass targets twice in under 5 seconds, thats with the draw also. That is terribly fast. Glocks fire at high rates and seconds you lose can be the rest of your life.

[GellyNose]

@patrick8shimek Again, provide a source. I've studied this area thoroughly and never have I heard of such an incident.

[sniper6081]

No match? They'd be trained too! They'd go to the range and shoot everyday just like the VT shooter. In fact, they'd probably be better trained because they probably would've been doing it for longer.

[nesquick3415]

im doing a petition arm our fuckingstudents

[cnknguyen]

"Paralyzed" by fear? HELL NO, I shoot back!

[nesquick3415]

paralize the pysocho back

[cramsa]

The question is not "should students carry legally" IT'S THAT THEY ARE DOING IT LEGALLY, but outside the school.

So the REAL QUESTION is, if they can legally carry when shopping, in the parking lot of walmart etc, why not be allowed to carry at school?

These people still pretend that "gun free zones" are "safe" just because a damn sign claims it is. That is like a potential rap victim wearing jeans and at the back it reads "RAPE FREE ZONE."

[waffenmacht]

This is why gun shows are never taken over by columbine kids.

[enforcer5369]

the fear that grips me is what will cause the survival instinct to take over and use my weapon for self defense. paralyzed? i think not, the sound of gunfire in a school would cause me to draw my weapon and look for the quickest way to escape with my life and use the weapon only as a last resort to save my life. if given the opportunity to stop a deranged killer then yes i would, but the first and foremost objective would be to escape with no more holes in me than i woke up with today.

[Hebertprime]

I think after you shoot your first person, your "element of surprise" is no longer an issue. Mush less if someone goes on a rampage, It'd be pretty obvious it's time to whip out your piece.

[grumpybb]

And once again the MSM gets it wrong by saying only Utah allows concealed carry on campus. It's legal in Oregon!

[TheArmedCitizen]

Several states allow it to be legal. But colleges still set policies that allow them to punish or expel people who carry. That is Oregon's case.

[grumpybb]

No, you're incorrect. Only the Oregon state legislature can set policy regarding firearms, not schools, not cities, not anybody else, only the state legislature. Read ORS Chapter 166.170 through 166.176, especially the last sentence of 166.170(2). One of your members (David Burnett of Kentucky)was on the Lars Larson radio show a couple days ago and Lars set him straight as well.

[Douva]

According to the ruling of THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE STATE OF OREGON FOR JACKSON COUNTY in the case of SHIRLEY KATZ vs MEDFORD SCHOOL DISTRICT 549C, ORS Chapter 166.170 through 166.176 applies only to municipal ordinances, not to school policies. That being the case, Oregon is one of many states where students or faculty who carry concealed handguns on college campuses do not risk criminal prosecution but do risk being expelled or fired.

[cpscsoccer13]

I go to a private school in Oregon. I'm under the impression that private businesses and colleges can make rules as they see fit. Recently, our campus safety director and board passed a total weapons ban. Meaning no knives longer than 7 inches, no airsoft, bb, paint, or regular guns anywhere. I feel naked. So is this unlawful based on what you are talking about in Oregon? If so, I am going to fight tooth and nail.

[grumpybb]

You must attend Linfield? Since it's a PRIVATE school they can make a policy banning concealed carry. PUBLIC schools are a different matter, they cannot make their own policies or statutes to regulate firearms in any matter since they are funded with tax dollars. The ORS makes this explicity clear. Please go to the Oregon Firearms Federation website and read the section titled "Guns in schools special report".

[grumpybb]

Shirley Katz is a teacher, not a student, and the school district argued it can ban employees from concealed carry as a term of their employment. She has now appealed. Also, the Oregon Revised Statutes make no differentiation between students and non-students concerning concealed carry.