Elephants On Ringling Bros. Train

[xoxTaniwolfxox2]

Thank you for making this vid. I will never support a circus.

[LonelySpycrab]

Wow, those conditions are just terrible. No wonder some of them go "mad"...

[retownsend]

you put your dog in a crate when you take them in a car, you put a horse in a harness when you put it in a trainer, and you put a leash on an elephant when you put it in a train. it's safe. 

[patcuvie]

@retownsend - No one puts a leash on an elephant. The elephants are chained in place in and off the train. It may be safe but it is a totally deprived life for the elephant.Try living chained for a month and see how deprived you feel.

[PedroyItatiFan]

Cousin Used to go to Ringling Retards After i should him this and told him about them Now hes not wasting his money by watching Abused animals :)

[simpson4563]

i am stating a protest like this if u think they should stop animals in circus

[circusboy90210]

elephants are not chained for extensive periods on the train and this is not how they are positioned in this manner for travel. this is again a situation taken out of context where this is not how they are treated. that fecal matter is not where they are standing but infront of them about to be cleaned up. Circus Train Elephant Water Stop will show you the reality of life on the train for elephants.

[patcuvie]

@circusboy90210 - I don't know how this is out of context, it is Ringling's train in San Diego. Accordingly to Ringling's own train records the elephants are chained like this, sometimes up to 100 hours. 100 hours is a pretty extensive period of time. The elephants in the video above were chained like this for approx. 30 hours. Try living chained in place for 100 hours, or even 30 hours, where you have urinate, defecate and eat where you stand.

[circusboy90210]

@patcuvie again out of context. the train is never in one place that long (the one place it is , winter quarters, they are being put throught their paces for a new show year. ) really you should not make conjecture about things you have no real facts about. on the road there are 10 shows a week on average again not enough time for them to be in one place more than a few hours. the animals constantly are being attended to by caring trainers. always fresh bedding. you don't abuse an investment.

[patcuvie]

@circusboy90210 - Circusboy, since you obviously don't know what you are talking about I will explain it in simple terms: the elephants are shipped from town to town by train. Depending on how close the next town is depends on how long the elephants are on the train. Some trips the elephants are on the train, chained in place, for up to 100 hours. You don't abuse an investment? Weren't human slaves beaten and have limbs cut-off? You just have a loose definition of abuse, when it is not you.

[circusboy90210]

@patcuvie since I don't know? I actually lived on the ringling trains (plural both) there is no time that any animal is stationary for that period of time even in winter quarters. most slaves w'ere not beaten on a regular basis. the longest train run is 5 days @ the end of the season. other than that there is no period of time where the animals are not working for a period of 3 hours on show days which is only monday & tuesday's. don't pretend to be able to pontificate about circus life to me.

[patcuvie]

@circusboy90210 - when did you work for Ringling and for how long?

[circusboy90210]

@patcuvie Life long connections @ every level of the company. I have more first hand knowledge in my pinky than your dreams can fill with a train full of lies & deceits.

[patcuvie]

@circusboy90210 - And yet you still don't care about the abuse the circus perpetrates on the animals they force into their service.

[circusboy90210]

@patcuvie no more than the dog I own being forced in my service. man has right's to overcome the animals that will kill them in the wild & show the rest of the world what they are. . you have no sense of historcial perspective, or democracy. abuse is nonexistant & they probably are treated far better than anyone you know. cruel workers are fired on the spot been there seen that more often than you shave your legs.

[patcuvie]

@circusboy90210 -Sure abuse is non-existent if you don't think of beatings, severe confinement and forced separation of family members abuse. If a person does then the abuse is rampant. Workers who beat the elephants are not fired they are rewarded, i.e., Troy Metzler, Alex Vargas, Joey Frisco, Joe Frisco, and every one of the elephant handlers and trainers. Tell me what cruel things have workers done that they have been "fired on the spot" for? I've never shaved my legs, so you never seen it.

[circusboy90210]

@patcuvie what ou might see as a severe beating is nothing to a animal 3 to 20 times your size. I know who you are that's why I know you don't shave your legs. the name vargas is an old circus family. you really don't know how the circus or the real world work. however yes most are fired on the spot unless they are well connected. seen more people cycle through the snimal trainer division than you can count.

[patcuvie]

@circusboy90210 - so answer the question: what "cruel" things have workers done to be "fired on the spot." I'm am really curious what Ringling considers cruel enough to fire a person on the spot.

[circusboy90210]

@patcuvie I"m not behind ringling I'm behind family's that have been doing the same thing for century's in a status quo that is what the planet needs'.. I've seen people literaly thrown off of the train for doing dumb shit to animals. not always aware why , I was on the concourse most of the time and got back to the train to see they were fired, shitcanned 86'ed. however you keep ignoring that what would hurt you only tickles these wild beast's and it's all they respect. they are killers.

[patcuvie]

@circusboy - You're still refusing to give details of what Ringling would consider behavior cruel enough to "fire a person on the spot." Hitting elephants across the face with bullhooks and whips does not "tickle" them. IT HURTS THEM, which is why Ringling does it: to instill fear in the elephants, so they can control them. You don't instill fear through tickling. The Elephants are "Killers" and yet Ringling tickles them to instill respect? You really don't know how ridiculous you sound, do you?

[afgsamay1]

@patcuvie excuse me???? did u just say that elephants r KILLERS?! IF U WERE THAT WOULD U JUST GO WITH BEING WHIPPED?! no right? u should have a healthy life instead of dying.@circusboy90210 that`s NOT what the planet needs.What is DOES need is appreciation 4 our animals,their 1 of the things that embrace nature.Imagine a life without them:no little buddies as pets,nothing else 2 love but humans.

[circusboy90210]

from a workers point of view Ringling animals probablly have a higher living standard than you do. patcuvie.



[patcuvie]

@circusboy90210 -THIS IS THE MOST RIDICULOUS STATEMENT YOU HAVE MADE THUS FAR. The workers are not kept in chains or cages at Ringling. They are able to quit anytime they want. They don't have to live in their own urine and feces or eat where they urinate and defecate. Moreover, the workers are not forcibly taken from their families, beaten and forced to perform unnatural circus tricks. If you want to live like the animals Ringling uses, I will be glad to set you up.

[circusboy90210]

@patcuvie why don't you get a job @ rinling since you need to learn so much about the reality of the situation.

[patcuvie]

@circusboy90210 - I would love to have a job at Ringling. Unfortunately, AS YOU ALREADY KNOW, they would never hire me, as they would know I would document and reveal what I saw. Ringling, AS YOU KNOW, is afraid of the truth of their animal husbandry practices being revealed, which is why they blatantly lie about them to the public, the media and the politicians. I've heard that the circus employees do a lot of drugs. This may be what clouds your perceptions.

[patcuvie]

@circusboy90210 - I noticed you still refuse to answer the question: How would you like living chained in place for 100 hours, or even 30 hours, where you have urinate, defecate and eat where you stand? Would you consider yourself abused if someone forced you to live like that? I also noticed you have not made any comments on my "Ringling Bros. Child Abusers" video, or the "Ringling Liars" videos. Can't think of any lies for those vids can you?

[patcuvie]

@circusboy90210 - Are you saying that Ringling doesn't forcibly separate baby elephants from their mothers and beat them to perform circus tricks and that Ringling doesn't beat the adult elephants on the road, or that the elephants are not kept chained for most of their lives? Or that tigers are not kept in cages just big enough to take a few steps back and forth? Or are you saying that none of this is abuse?

[circusboy90210]

@patcuvie how you think you would have acces to Ringlings' private train records I don't know. however there are no train runs (maybe one to winter quarters>) that are 100 hours in length. if you did you would also know there is a water stop about every 4 hours. but being as you know absolutely nothing about what your're spreading lies and deceit about youre wrong yet again. ringlings train is private property , you would never havev access to these records even if you lived on the train.

[patcuvie]

@circusboy90210 - Even you must be aware of the trial against Ringling in Federal court trial last year. During the discovery phase is when the records were turned over. The train trips are for the most part non-stop. Moreover, the elephants are not unloaded as soon as the train arrives. I noticed you refused to answer the question: how you would like to be chained for 100 or even 30 hours. Your lies are tiresome. Unless you are willing to discuss the abuse I am going to block your posts.

[retownsend]

The courtroom is no place to entertain a philosophical debate over whether elephants belong in a circus. If you don't want to see elephants in captivity, don't pay for the ticket to the zoo or circus. Once enough people feel the same way, these acts will cease to exist.

[patcuvie]

If the circus is in violation of the law that is supposed to protect elephants from abuse then the courtroom is absolutely the proper place for the debate on whether the circus is abusing the elephants.

[circusboy90210]

@patcuvie no the proper place for this in a democracy is simply to stop attending the show. People have rights as taxpayers ,Animals do not. A very vocal minority who has no earthly idea how well most of these animals are treated has no right to make something that private individuals do with their pets seem immoral or injust. we spent thousands of years overcoming nature , this is a symbol of our triumph over wild beast and having tamed them. your dog is a example of this.

[COMP3LLED2KILL]

@retownsend If only it was that easy, that may never happen, but I can wait for the day all circus animals are free :)

[kidmoo2]

So... instead of recording the video, how about you get in there and give him some new hay not covered in his own "feces and urine" since you seemed to notice that was a problem several times.

[catcomet]

for gods sake get this video and other abuse videos to congess senate president obama news shows state politicians

regarding circus owners you may have heard these famous words used with a different meaning when you make them scream you got their attention

[montgomerystreet]

J-man, man, is it necessary to keep repeating urself? we already know -ad nauseam- that you like these vids. geesh

[journeyman47]

Good vid, Pat. Thanks for spreading the word on the inherent cruelty of circuses with nonhuman animals.

I await the day all such "entertainment" is banned. Animals are NOT ours to abuse and exploit for our own pleasure. Thanks again for showing us the truth.

[mmissinglink]

You buy the ticket, they pay the price.

For elephants, the psychological trauma that is the censequence of the overwhelming majority of their life being confined against their will, is severe and permanent. Stereotypic behaviors (a tell-tale sign of mental anguish) are seen in every captive elephant in the circus but never with animals in the wild. Confining elephants is morally unconscionable and good people boycott captive-animal circuses.

[COMP3LLED2KILL]

@mmissinglink I Highly agree :)

[roundnrounder]

Inquiring minds want to know: Are the needs of animals called "pets" met when they are kept in crates (by day and/or night) or confined to a room/basement/garage (day & night). . . locked indoors 10-12-14+ hours unable to urinate when they need to (bad for the bladder). . . never allowed a chance to run free off a leash, if even taken for a walk at all?????

[circusboy90210]

thank be that this is not the case. YOur speaking of something you have absolutly no first hand knowledge.

[COMP3LLED2KILL]

@circusboy90210 Keep denying Circusboy, a few hours of entertainment per night=

a lifetime of Confinement & Misery for the Circus Animals, and all this Cruelty is just to entertain the fans, it's despicible!

[circusboy90210]

@COMP3LLED2KILL I live it and I know from thousands of hours in many shows

ringling being the majority of it. I personally know almost everybody who has ever worked there. I can tell you from personal experience that what you show is an aberration in the industry. this is not denying anything but your pompous lies and treachery. a blanket statement with a few seperate instances does not prove anything but your complete bias against sovereignty and democracy.

[COMP3LLED2KILL]

@circusboy90210 Whatever, any how tell me what's so un-cruel & Humane about Tigers & Lions being kept in tiny cages (beast wagons), I cant see anything Un-Cruel about that, and Elephants are very sociable Animals, but they get chained for most of their life, I,ve never seen an Elephant suffling from side to side in the wild, or the Zoo, the stress of the circus life does it to them.

[circusboy90210]

@COMP3LLED2KILL really ?? where did you spend time with wild elephants?? in person ??? if your answer is I haven't and all you know is tv then stfu.

[COMP3LLED2KILL]

@circusboy90210 wild Elephants dont sway from side to side, it's been proven that it's Steriotypical behavour (it's all over youtube ect. and other sites), brought on by stress, I was in Africa on holiday years back, and Elephants in wild dont sway from side to side, then give me one reason why they sway from side to side in the Circus?, or are you gonna avoid that question too, cause all you've been doing is avoiding my questions.

[circusboy90210]

@COMP3LLED2KILL small depends on your pointi of view . of course you would never concede cage to be large enough. whatever man does is part of nature too. so , by your arguement we should not have dogs as pets either. when are you goiing to stop misrepresenting things and making libelous statements and encouraging people to break the law while pushing your twisted agenda????

[circusboy90210]

@circusboy90210 you also did not mention spending time with any exotics or even getting up close just going to africa. the circus is mankinds triumph over wild things and to be celebrated. or would you like dodging lions and tigers and bears everyday???

[COMP3LLED2KILL]

@circusboy90210 I have a Dog, it aint caged, or roped or chained, and the Dog gets walked a lot too, I know my dog loves it's life, it aint forced into performing degrading silly tricks for an audience, and I'll keep continuing to do my small part in

encouraging people to stay away from the Circus.

[circusboy90210]

@COMP3LLED2KILL circus animals don't have a peer network to call anything "degrading". elephants get bathed daily, and exercised. you have no earthly iota if the rhetoric your spouting is true or not. the chains are for public safety not slavery. interferring with interstate commerce is a crime. you force you dog to sit and don't even get payed for it... it's natural too for reason man is part of nature not an exception. mastery of the wild just how destitute poor homosexual and vegan are you?

[circusboy90210]

@COMP3LLED2KILL oh you dodged the issue again. how much time did you spend with exotics in the wild??? what is it about true democracy and personal freedom you don't like??? do you even know how most animals communicate with eachother??? do you know what positive reinforcement is?? or who gunther gebel williams is???what about irvin feld?? any circus history??phillip astley?? name a roman emporer??? ingrid newkirks sexual orientation?? her support for domestic terrorist?? integrity?? truth?

[COMP3LLED2KILL]

@circusboy90210 wild Elephants dont sway from side to side, it's been proven that it's Steriotypical behavour (it's all over youtube ect. and other sites), brought on by stress, I was in Africa on holiday years back, and Elephants in wild dont sway from side to side, then give me one reason why they sway from side to side in the Circus?, or are you gonna avoid that question too, cause all you've been doing is avoiding my questions.

[COMP3LLED2KILL]

@circusboy90210 wild Elephants dont sway from side to side, it's been proven that it's Steriotypical behavour (it's all over youtube ect. and other sites), brought on by stress, I was in Africa on holiday years back, and Elephants in wild dont sway from side to side, then give me one reason why they sway from side to side in the Circus?, or are you gonna avoid that question too, cause all you've been doing is avoiding my questions.

[CruelRinglingBros]

@circusboy90210 Yo Dickhead, I'm Flaging your Circus videos as we speak, I dont like Ringling, or their Torture methods to train their animals, and I wont just stay silent and let you talk a whole heap of shit, trying to make ringling bros out to be innocent of all the animal abuse over the years, they are cruel to animals, and that's a fact :(

[circusboy90210]

@CruelRinglingBros what circus videos?? you tone inclines that your emotional state is high for reason you don't have a leg to stand on. however you do what you think you need to do sir.. however I have a right to express myself as well. but fyi and calling your bluff I don't have any circus videos... lol really read a few thousand books and come back when you are enlightened. thank you and have a life.

[CruelRinglingBros]

@circusboy90210 You talk crap, your a Muppet! you Hate to see anyone or any channel speak the Truth about circus animals, and how they are treated, well, we aint going away, not ever!

[circusboy90210]

@CruelRinglingBros let's see culture = crap so that makes me well educated instead of a ingnoramus who makes pure conjecture on subjects that one has absolutly no first hand knowledge or experience in. Your videos are made in clear violation of many laws. two wrongs do not make a airplane inventor. a muppet ?? that entailme actually being a paid emplyoee of Ringling hahaha. games on you. However I still know way more people on the inside than you ever will, and I have the truth on my side .

[circusboy90210]

@circusboy90210 so you see since you broke the law to make these videos(somebody did) you have no moral leg to stand on. there is a reason why circus' have been going on for thousands of years society made a collaborative effort to make them happen because of their achievements. really read some history books. sovereignty, democracy, freedom of choice, private property rights, and khmer rouge7.1 m people starved) (

[circusboy90210]

@circusboy90210 one of the first thing the khmer rouge was do away with private property rights of farmers through animal rights. your kind are the worst kind of enemy of true democracy, freedom and decency. you do not respect other people sovereignty or private property rights. what you produce is pure hate speech, against decent god fearing people who exhibit their own property. Rome had one of the most perfect forms of democracy and look at the circus' they held there. freedom reign.

[circusboy90210]

@circusboy90210 so if you think your little snippet of video reflects a reality that is certainly not true to anyone other than fringe homosexual vegetarians, do the democratic thing and boycott them. aside from that quit breaking the law and propagating total mistruths and libelous statements thank you sir and have a nice day. remember circus lovers have been around alot longer than your non freedom loving self.

[CruelRinglingBros]

@circusboy90210 So you know so many on the inside, Good for you, and I'm violating laws, so sue my ass!

[CruelRinglingBros]

@circusboy90210 Yo Dickhead, I'm Flaging your Circus videos as we speak, I dont like Ringling, or their Torture methods to train their animals, and I wont just stay silent and let you talk a whole heap of shit, trying to make ringling bros out to be innocent of all the animal abuse over the years, they are cruel to animals, and that's a fact :(

[CruelRinglingBros]

@circusboy90210 Yo Dickhead, I'm Flaging your Circus videos as we speak, I dont like Ringling, or their Torture methods to train their animals, and I wont just stay silent and let you talk a whole heap of shit, trying to make ringling bros out to be innocent of all the animal abuse over the years, they are cruel to animals, and that's a fact :(

[circusboy90210]

@CruelRinglingBros as supported by what ?? your emotional opinion??? or did you tresspass and violate many other laws to try and get snippets of videos that are not indicative of over all treatment??

[COMP3LLED2KILL]

@circusboy90210 No matter what you or anyone says to deny this, I dont believe you, you simply do not care about the welfare of Animals, so seeing 20+ elephants all chained up in a row & shuffling from side to side is a Great life for Elephants, they are slaves of the Entertainment industry, and you & your co-workers just think it's normal, well it aint, it's CRUEL!

[circusboy90210]

@COMP3LLED2KILL I love animals more than you will ever know .I have spent countless hours vounteering for free @ bird sanctuaries, and other instutions dealing with exotics and other wild animals. even if people in shows did not care for their own pets as you say. you don't mistreat an investment that makes millions upon millons of dollars also believe in humans sovereignty and dominion over this planet and it's animals. so really read a few thousand books and get back with me . education key

[COMP3LLED2KILL]

@circusboy90210 Your not telling the full Truth about how Circus Elephants are really treated, and you havent answered the question: please read the previous question and answer it, I asked what is Un-Cruel & Normal about Tigers being kept in small cages (Beastwagons) ect. and you'll probably avoid it again? it's not propanganda, it's the Truth, you know gfpiper, he avoids all difficult questions too?

[JenayBrooke]

I have seen a Ringling show. There are some wonderful acts, mostly performed by foreign performers. But, CircusBoy, if you knew anything about animals, their natural behaviors and their needs, you would know that the circus life is no life for a tiger or an elephant or even a dog. I used to think it would be okay to have domestic animals in the circus until I saw that Mrs. Whatshername keeps the dogs crated ALL THE TIME except when they are performing.

[roundnrounder]

Anyone feel like they're getting anywhere? Or is it just a pissin' contest?

[roundnrounder]

Roundnround it goes.  Great discussion (cough, cough). Anyone feel like they're getting anywhere?

[stopallanimalabuse]

By the way, this is not the only mistreatment of elephants. Why don't you look up elephants on youtube being beaten with a bull h ook and stabbed.

[stopallanimalabuse]

Listen Silverwolf, I and my white family do not agree with the horrible way Native Americans were treated! We did not do it nor would ever put Native Americans down. Do you even know how the whites of today feel about how your ancestors were treated or do you just think we're to blame?

[silverwolf1775]

Well you are protesting the treatment of animals within a circus. Have you ever thought about how your ancestors and other peoples ancestors treat the Native American Indians. They treated them the same way you claim these elephants are being treated. Try looking at pics of Native American Rezs. They are 100 times below poverty. The time/money that people like you spend on fighting circuses could be used to help fight hunger on a Rez or other communities where the families could use it.

[patcuvie]

So apparently it is OK to abuse other animals as long as, somewhere, there are people suffering. One abuse justifies another. Two wrongs make a right is not a philosophy I embrace.

[silverwolf1775]

Well I have seen the abuse tapes of Ringling and Carson. I will agree with you...that is totally wrong. But an elephant chained within a rail car so the several ton animal wont cause the car to shift and over turn is not as bad as the video makes it out to be. They dont travel for days fastened like that. There are a few bad employees and would maybe say just stupid/lazy employees with these circuses that would harm animals. But the same is true for PETA and PETA type people.

[circusboy90210]

@silverwolf1775 there is a water stop every 4 hours or so. really wish people would talk from first hand knowledge and or know about animals. the reason we even know about many exotic breeds is because the care and attention circus give them when exhibiting them . study history. the real issue is not whether it's cruel or not but if one person has the right to push their morality on others. the basis of crime is injuring someone else or their property. rome greatest democracy ever animal circus'

[youknowwhoha]

you know who the hell did you get that? thats on a train thats you cant do that you can be arrested thats where people live asshole. you should be arrested

[mreneet35]

Know the Facts on Circus Abuse before you speak! Think occasionally of the suffering you spare yourself the sight.

Circus Abuse and Negligence is not OK! Either you care for the Safety and Welfare of the Animals or you Don't! After so much abuse a wild animal will eventually react by fighting back to free themselves of the pain and suffering or they will die from abuse if not rescued!

[mreneet35]

Whipping and Beating Elephants to death, punching horses in the face, letting animals suffer through illnesses still making them perform and confining them for months to small areas is not ok! WAKE UP PEOPLE you are blinded by glitz and glamourized greed at the sake of the animals!

[hellocutie315]

I visited the Ringling website and ranted at them for animal abuse. It was a vain effort on my part but i think Some of you who are concerned should do the same.

[journeyman47]

hellocutie: Cool, I did the same thing! That makes two of us who told Ringling Bros. that we are disgusted with the way they abuse nonhuman animals. They are already very cautious about keeping the abuse hidden, but thanks to courageous people like Patcuvie, their cruelty is still exposed for all to see. I dream of the day when all circuses are banned from using our fellow animals for cheap entertainment for clueless people. Keep spreading the word! Don't go to circuses with animals!

[circusboy90210]

hello animals are nonhuman. California law has nothing to do with what is right or wrong. Very few rain runs are over 1 1/2 day the longest one being 3 day's at the end of season. also the train stops every 4 hours for water. the elephants do notstand in their own feces what you see here is in between times or the the person was on break they are very well kept and regularly clean up after. this is not typical of ringling behavior. Also these are somebody's pets as well as your dog is yours.

[journeyman47]

Circusboy: your name reveals your bias. The animals (the nonhuman ones) are NOT pets, they are commodities used to make money for a corporation (Ringling). My pet does not live in a tiny cage and only let out to perform stupid tricks for witless humans.

"California law has nothing to do with right or wrong"? You just summed up a great point-- against you. The law does little to protect these wonderful animals from circus abuse like the one seen by all our OWN EYES in the vid. No excuses.

[circusboy90210]

my only bias in life is reality. These are the personal pets of the performers. Ringling is a entertainment company that hires on animal acts on a contractual basis. they are not owned by ringling. If any thing california law is overreaching into people private lives that just happen to be part of a bigger production. you really should speak from basis of experience not just a few videos that show nothing but a few aberations. any situation can be twisted by a few seconds of video here and there

[journeyman47]

Circusboy: are you saying that the elephants in Ringling Bros. are the pets of someone in the circus, and not owned by Ringling? And the same with the big cats, etc.? That sounds strange to me. But if it is true, then I wonder why they allow their "pets" to be shipped around the country in tiny, inadequate cages, and only let out to perform. Anyway, yes, videos can twist the truth, but I believe my own eyes from watching over 2,000 videos and visiting a circus myself (see Circus Roma Spain).

[circusboy90210]

the people who own the animals cannot be held directly for the action of employees. it's a little more complicated than you make it out to be. They do get out far more often than you make it out to be though. However I did not grow up in the shows but have known people in the shows my whole life & dreamt of traveling with the shows my whole childhood. this however does not blind me to reality. I also have seen people routinely fired, shitcanned, 86's etc... for doing the wrong thing. first hand.

[patcuvie]

Circusboy you clearly know not of what you speak of. The people who own the animals are directly responsible for the treatment of those animals by anyone. These elephants are either kept in a concrete parking lot pen, chained in a railcar, or chained on a concrete parking lot. The reality is that the people who own these animals don't see anything wrong with treating them this way. I do, which is why I put up the video to educate people who care.

[circusboy90210]

I don't know what I'm speaking of? I was there for more years than you'll ever know about. The conditions all the animals are kept in are as different as the amount of arena's that exist. There are many instances where the elephants are given much space to roam around. You have one little video which shows about 2 seconds of stuff compared to years of treatment that does not corespond to this. The elephants are only chained for saftey & given a water stop every 4 hours.

[journeyman47]

So now you are reversing your position and saying that the performers DON'T own the animals? Which is it?

And there's nothing wrong with dreaming of performing in a circus. If you want to be an acrobat, a clown or whatever, go for it. Just don't drag unwilling, confuses nonhumans into the act. Maybe it used to dazzle people, but more and more are learning all the time that it is wrong and demeaning to make fellow animals do silly tricks for show. And not all abusers are fired, unfortunately.

[circusboy90210]

@journeyman47 you would know if they are fired how??? I know that they are fired on the spot.

[CruelRinglingBros]

@circusboy90210 you havent even answered COMP3LLED2KILL'S question: all you can do is come up with big words and make no sense, he asked, is it un-cruel to keep tigers & lions in small cages (please say yes or no) you dont have to avoid the question, like you have been, please just answer the question and I'll answer one of your questions, is that fair?

[circusboy90210]

your statement has shown your obvious ignorance of how things really work. If you people really watched the shows as much as you say you do. You would have some type of knowledge of operational heiarchy. The acts are all independant workers who might even own their own circus' or be part of a small family show. Ringling is the greatest show on earth for the fact that Mr Feld travels the world looking for the best of the best. Then these people band together tomake it happen.

[journeyman47]

You keep telling people how ignorant they are about the circus. True, maybe we all haven't worked in circuses like you. But through the videos, we can see with our own eyes exactly what kind of abuse occurs in them. We don't need to work there to see that they are not happy places for animals, just like we don't need to work in a bullfight arena to know the horrors of those as well.

Please get off your high horse and accept the fact that there is no denying the inherent cruelty of circuses.

[circusboy90210]

@journeyman47 hey bullfighting is awesome, its a sign of sovereignty. evedently you dont' like being free . if you don't like something then just don't do it. STOP trying to force others with the force of government even though you are just a well organized minority. you keep trying to re-educate the masses who have no idea the libelous lies you are spreading are not based on reality but a few snippets of remote occurences.

[circusboy90210]

@journeyman47 if they were inadequate the fda would not allow them. circus' in roma spain are not indicative of Ringling feld or it's other holdings . 

[circusboy90210]

@journeyman47 wrong they are pets owned individually by the people who work with the. shows how much you know , (absolutly nothing in fact or based on it.) one video does not mean this is true about everyone in the shows. the corporation(ringling is only a title) there is no such company as ringling brothers anymore it's owned by one family please get your facts straight, as far as shareholders this is a group of private individuals in privatly held company. not really like exxon or mcd's

[circusboy90210]

@circusboy90210 so you see when you make slanted statements like that to sway people with lies, you devalue your integrity when the truth comes out. Very few animals in shows are not owned by the performers those are lease from ray cunio. please again if you don't know what the fuck your making pure conjecture and speculation about. leave it to us experts to make factual statements . no go back to the kids table and finish your waffle sir.

[circusboy90210]

cautius?? hello anybody who works in the arenas can see this. it's not like they are behind curtains 24/7 when not performing. & on top of that in alot of city's they are outside. your so clueless when you try to talk about things you could not possibly know the entirity of. oh there is no such thing as a circus without animals. cirque du soleil is not even run by circus family's. nice show though, I know alot of those cats personaly, & just about any other form of entertainment.

[journeyman47]

Who are you responding to? I think you posted this in the wrong place...

[roundnrounder]

As I said, if I had any reason to believe a good discussion would ensue I'd lead one. Another poster was also assumed to be a circus worker. Nevermind that my comment rules out my being a circus worker (nevermind the use of logic). So, circus worker is meant to be an insult? I don't suppose the animals will be helped by such juvenile behavior.

My name is roundnrounder not roundrounder

[roundnrounder]

patcuvie, if I thought the parties could/would entertain a good discussion I'd enter in.

My substantive offering is that I have observed far too much silliness in these attempted discussions.

Maybe you can tell me, what is the point in calling someone a circus worker?

[patcuvie]

Roundrounder you must be aware that if you come into a discussion insulting the people participating then likely you'll be insulted yourself; hence the term "circus worker." This video will incite strong feelings about the treatment of animals in circuses and I don't think people's expression of those feelings are silly. I don't know what your definition is of a "good discussion" but you are more than welcome to try to lead a discussion with any tone you like in any direction you desire.

[patcuvie]

Roundrounder if you don't like the discussion don't post comments. You certainly haven't added any "real dialogue" or anything substantial to this discussion. "yawn yawn" is, to use your word, inane.

[roundnrounder]

Jenay, you need to consult a dictionary. The operative word is respective. After you understand the definition, read my post again!

Geesh! (you're a good illustration why the discussion is inane!!!)

[JenayBrooke]

Roundnrounder sounds like a circus employee to me - afraid of losing his job when people quit paying to see animals abused for entertainment...

[1angryartist]

NO ANIMALS should be in ANY circus or ANY other entertainment venue. I am relieved to read the compassionate comments from the people at this site. PLEASE TALK ABOUT THIS HORRIBLE ABUSE TO AS MANY PEOPLE AS YOU CAN AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD TO BOYCOTT THESE ABUSIVE VENUES QUICKLY. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE...TODAY.

[roundnrounder]

y a w n . . . same ol inane "discussion" . . . no real dialogue . . . y a w n . . . makes one think the respective parties are incapable of substantive discussion . . . now ~that's~ sad

[I3roken123]

Damn that's fckin sad...I'm soo sorry that i went to the circus! Having another elephant pulling a younger one away from its mother....that's just like having a 3 year old boy/girl being pulled away taken away

[rbbbc132]

ringling does not ignore the law they do not abuse their animals these r for safety reasons if u dont think they should be chained then watch u get killed by a loose elepahnt

[norbie2468]

circuses are cruel, face it!!

[DJONES6734]

best thing we can do is not go to animal circuses

[circusboy90210]

@DJONES6734 you truly can't have a circus without animals. phillip astley literally built the tradition on the backs of horses. shows that were not equestrian based were illegal in england so he put a stage on the backs of hundreds of horses to get around this.

[BroadwayStAr1nce]

Also when there the condition of which the animals live will be upscaled they will and should get daily walks if they cannnot be turned out in a big area(you can do this horses) elephants should get hosed down in hot weather or mud bathes they should be given what they posibly can same with all the other animals.

[circusboy90210]

the do this regularly, if you had been on the road for years you would know this instead of lestineing to bs rehtoric from people who have not spent day one on the road or winter quarters of any show.

[patcuvie]

Circusboy you know nothing of my experience. The more you comment the more you reveal your ignorance and insensitivity towards animal suffering. Thankfully, you're dying breed. RIP

[circusboy90210]

sorry more & more people love the circus now than ever. I have many many contacts inalmost every show you can think of & business is better now than ever. the more you talk bad the more people go to actually see if it's true or not. which it's not. a few bad apples out there have spoiled the whole bunch for you. sorry that you have had a bad experience or your oversensitive.

[CruelRinglingBros]

@circusboy90210 Ahh Bullshit!!

[circusboy90210]

@CruelRinglingBros what you can't handle the truth must be so because your remark is totally funny . what a amazing whit and intellect you must have. your parents must be proud of what a great person you have become. let's see you have shown your disdain for democracy,sovereignty, private property rights, your love of tresspassing and violating peoples privacy. you must be the product of a homosexual union between hitler and sadam hussein. your so amazing I will worship you forever . NOT!!!

[CruelRinglingBros]

@circusboy90210 you are still avoiding answering the question, "is it un-cuel & normal to keep Tigers & Lions in small beast wagons:

Sovereignty & democracy & homosexuality & violating peoples rights have nothing to do with you answering a simple question, and this will be my last comment, I'll leave you in peace after this, and why have you subbed to my channel, I dont intend to upoad any Anti-Ringling footage, it's not even my main channel :)

[BroadwayStAr1nce]

youre videos are truly wonderful they are differnt and show the whole side to the circus. Banning the circus will tkae tons of time and upset a lot of people probably those with some animals are more fun but they need the care they deserve and the training. This is why im pushing to get in and start training humanely the animals those that cannot should not be in the circus.

[Disneyfan82]

Of all the undercover videos I've witness, those animals are being mistreated. Now I regret going to the animal circus. To say that they're not mistreated after viewing the videos is pure ignorance. I shall only attend the circus with only human performers. Ringling Bros and Barnum & Baily is one of the worst/cruelest shows on earth. I'll never support people who are cruel to animals for entertainment.

[circusboy90210]

Newsflash Ringling Bros. operates Disney on Ice Shows & a whole lot of other things you have no earthly idea about, just ike the things you talk about back stage that don't happen like you think they do .

[Meg452raver]

Hardy, I don't understand how you can say these animals are not abused when they're are videos that clearly show animals being beaten, screamed at, and are forced to live in dirty conditions. To watch a video then say that does not exist is purely (sorry to say) stupid. These footages are not photoshop made and it is not out of love that a trainer would cuss and repeatedly hit their elephants with sharp objects. You need to rethink your arguement.

[circusboy90210]

@Meg452raver you can probably fill several buildings full of information with stuff people like you don't understand. here are just a few, sovereignty, democracy, private property, civil liberty's, mans triumph over the animal kingdom.

[hardyzgurl4ever1]

Ringling does not drive their animals crazy. I thought I'd give up on this one but I just can't walk away from a fight I guess. And Janet, how dare you talk about my cat. I have seen the elephants run around & play with my own eyes during their free time, which they get a lot.

[denizb]

My guess is Hardyzgurl4ever1 is related to the circus industry. Few, except those with some personal connect, would go to this length to defend the horrific treatment animals endure in the circus.

[circusboy90210]

no people who believe in democracy & private property rights do too. I can't believe how many fabrications & twisted lies have been told to support an erroneous viewpoint.also people with these viewpoints are a well organized minority that would usurp the rules of a proper democracy, & private property rights. if not for circus exotics would not have even been known about to save. so even giving credence to your statements their is still a greater good. first hand knowledge not bs theory's.

[roundnrounder]

"Few would go to this length . . ."

Commenting on the internet is great length? Maybe you need to get a life if you consider this great effort!

[Torrey61]

thats bullshit this is why i don't go to circuses anymore. Because the animals get treated like shit these people don't even care about the animals all they care about is the money they make off them. The elephants and all the animals get the things they need to survive on a minimum. Didn't you hear about the Ringling Horse that died because it got hit by a train. That happened in my home town i witnessed it.

[I3roken123]

=O You saw the horse get hit?!?omg...i'd be scarred for life!I support to what you say

[Torrey61]

I was horrified and so were the people around me. That horse was hit because it's "specially trained handler" was being a careless dumbass. Diddo on the cat thing!!!

[JanetLocke]

I wonder how hardygurl4ever would like her cat to be treated like one of Ringling's animals - confined to a tiny area, never allowed freedom to play, only allowed out of the cage except when she is performing tricks under bright lights with loud music. That is not an acceptable life for any animal -not a cat, not a camel and not an elephant.

[circusboy90210]

this is not the case though the animals are let out for many exercise sessions, & also play, & practice which are not allway's all work. But if you knew anything about performance animals they actual revel in pleasure to please their masters.The term master comes about from somebody having mastered the art of dealing with wild animals & domesticating them. Again your talking from a place of not knowing first hand what your talking about. Join a show for a few years before you claim to know itall

[JanetLocke]

I noticed in hardygurl4ever1's video that she has a cat she seems to care for. I wonder how she would like her cat to be treated like one of Ringling's animals - confined to a tiny area, never allowed freedom to play, only allowed out of the cage when she is performing tricks under brights lights with loud music. That is not an acceptable life for any animal -not a cat, not a camel and not an elephant.

[JanetLocke]

Patcuvie, thank you for posting this video as well as your two other even more heartbreaking videos showing how Ringling is driving their animals crazy.

[hardyzgurl4ever1]

I don't know why I am. Ringling Brothers isn't dying out. But I'm done with this, because you and I will never see eye to eye, no matter what.

[ttlyawesome]

Thanx for trying hardyz, but its people like this you cannot reason with. No matter what you say, they still think you're wrong. They refuse to listen to logic and continually attack you with nonsense until you give up and walk away.

as for you pat, go attack a circus that DESERVES it! Maybe Cole Brothers or Clyde and Beaty, if they are still around.

[Jayfurluvsya]

I agree this is a waste of time but I only started this because this guy is simply slandering an organization that creates unique opportunies for anyone involved. Including this stalker poperazzi fascist.

[patcuvie]

Social justice, historically, takes more than 19 years. Fortunately circuses that use animals are dying out. Sounds like you or somebody you know has a financial interest in using animals in circuses because your responses are just like those of the circus people. Also most of Ringling's elephants were taken from their homes and families in the wild. But wild caught or captive bred they all suffer in the circus. If you don't like debating this issue then why are you.

[hardyzgurl4ever1]

Well, if you've been monitoring them so closely, why haven't they been shut down yet? If they're soooo horrible to the elephants, how are they still around? People go to the circus to see elephants. That's just how it is. These elephants are not wild elephants, nor will they ever be. But whatever. Like I said, I hate debating this.

[masameus]

The form of entertainment you try to excuse is a spectacle of human depravity. People don't go to the circus to applaud the trunk-and-tail chain gang of the elephants. They go there to marvel at the perverse inventiveness of human cruelty.

[patcuvie]

I know all about how they treat the elephants. I've been monitoring Ringling with a video camera for 19 years. If your telling me that chaining elephants, forcing them to live in their own filth and perform stupid tricks is an expression of love then you have a perverted idea of what love is. If you were treated like a slave would you view that as an act of love?

[circusboy90210]

If this is true then i would have seen you. We would have talked by now in real life.

[Jayfurluvsya]

if this was true he would have video showing handlers rushing to catch the waste that is eliminated in buckets before it hits the ground. I watched them change to buckets while I worked there. They don't live in their filth, that is a lie.

[hardyzgurl4ever1]

You can't talk about something you know nothing about. You don't know the people, therefore you can't say that they don't love them. Don't be ignorant about things you know nothing about. I didn't mean elephants should be chained up in the wild, but when traveling on a train, absolutely. It's completely pointless to debate this subject, as we're doing, since everyone is going to have a different viewpoint on it and nothing will change it.

[hardyzgurl4ever1]

You may see abuse and chains, but never have I EVER seen those people act cruel towards those animals, not once. And I've been backstage at many hours of the day and night for three years now. But what do you expect, an elephant not to be chained up? It would tear that train car apart. They know no other life. All I can say is that the people love them as their own children, so cut the "they're not loved" bullshit.

[patcuvie]

Yes I do expect elephants to not be chained up. CHAINING ELEPHANTS IS CRUEL. The fact that they have been chained their whole life is no excuse for this cruelty. They are chained because they don't want to be there. Saying "circus people love them as their own children" is ridiculous. Anyone who would treat their children this way would be thrown in jail. Which by the way is where these people should be

[circusboy90210]

so your saying walking your dog on a leash is cruel & that mankinds triumph over mother nature is of no consequence?? say that the next time you hear about people being mauled while going out to gather food.... oh that's right it s a major accomplishment & something to still be amazed by. hence circus'

[patcuvie]

This sounds like rambling and makes no sense to me.

[circusboy90210]

of course you would dismiss the truth just as many other videos are closed to comment the moment the truth starts to come out.I have reversed no position. my name is not obama. I don't flip flop the truth is static.

[circusboy90210]

first off it's very rare for elephants to be chained 24/7 they get alot more love & attention than you might think. There are the few bad apple lazy people who don't know the opportunity they have been given. why don't you join the shows & cahnge it from within instead of rocking the boat. The world is a big place & your voice like mine so insinsingnicicant it's impossible. however when a small well organized few shout louder than the maj. this is no better than the supposed problem.

[arlenelan3]

o.k. so how would you like to be chained 10/7 or 15/7 or 20/7 though I'm sure it's close to the worst scenerio for the elephants. And,

If you think that's love and attention, I'd hate to see what you think of animal abuse.

This confinement is blantent animal abuse!

Yes, this small message post is small, but others have been working, so that Ringling is been sued by the ASPCA and several other animal welfare groups this October in a Washington D.C. Federal Court.

[circusboy90210]

@patcuvie look in life there are compromises the elephants are chained for public safety. really stop making conjecture about subjects you don't even have the first idea about which your talking about. study a few hundred history books and come back to me when youknow as much about circus history as me, and a lifetime of travel(oops little late for that) mark twain said it best about travel. your actions show your not very worldly. please stop making uneducated and libelous remarks about circus

[arlenelan3]

I cannot believe the apathetic cold heartedness and ignorance.  Put a chain around your own foot for one hour and see how it feels

[Jayfurluvsya]

The elephants are curious and naive like children. They want to explore situations that could cause them harm like opening the train door or wander in the street. You are right they are well habituated to this lifestyle and the train care is like a second bedroom. I used to bring hay to them on waterstops, but I didn't realize they were tethered in there.

[nzhorserider]

HORRIBLE JUST HORRIBLE!!