gnrhead, Why must you claim sola scriptura is a practice that causes disunity? In fact Sola scriptura has more unity than a church of Scripture and/or tradition + infallible interpreter. I can compare 5 denominations who hold to sola scriptura and compare them to 3 churches that hold to Scripture and/or tradition + infallible interpreter and the unity between the churches holding to sola scriptura would be extremely smaller than that of the Scripture and/or tradition + infallible interpreter.
@jakovcu Easter Orthodox is the only one that comes to mind but I am talking about sola scriptura vs infallible interpreter, Tradition is not the issue here.
Sola Scriptura merely means that Scripture alone is the infallible, inerrant, and God-breathed source for Christian doctrine and practice. It has nothing to do with interpretations, much less with Camping. That's a different topic.
It seems with so many of you that if all else fails, misrepresenting Protestantism and lying for the "Mother church" is the way to go.
I fail to see on what grounds you set yourself up as an apologist.
Not only is SOLA SCRIPTURA unsupported by the Bible it is clearly contradicted by many many passages in the Bible. Just go through your Bible & notate every passages of the Gospels where Jesus is noted as speaking but we are not told what He said. What Jesus says is by definition the word of God. But if there is no word of God outside of scripture, then a Prot. most hold that what Jesus said was not the word of God. An absurd contradiction.
This video reminds me of what St. Athanasius wrote about the Arians
For being forced from the conceptions or rather misconceptions of their own hearts, they fall back upon passages of divine Scripture, and here too from want of understanding, according to their wont, they discern not their meaning; but laying down their own irreligion as a sort of canon of interpretation , they wrest the whole of the divine oracles into accordance with it (Discourse Against Arians 1:52)
I was nervous about 5/21, because if the Lord would've come, it would've meant that the church apostasy had happened (2Th 2v3). I'm a sedevacantist, but I still attend the new mass as an observer, because I know that any man that believes something false can't help it. We're born that way, and we don't have control over our thoughts. God does. He saves us. He reveals truth to us. He can send a working of delusion to chasten us. May we all be humble and give God glory for everything.
There is something particular about many saying we are "Catholic". The reason is simple. Many (including early protestants) believe that THERE´S ONLY ONE UNIVERSAL CHURCH (modern protestants claim another foolish thing).
They are ruled by Nicea-constatinopolitan creed, that uses the word catholic (ONE UNIVERSAL).
So, as 1 day-a-week catholics, many others use the term as a generic condition, but the truth is far beyond that.
They are simply heretic,or cismatic NOT denomination.
Also my whole use of the word "denominations" was meant to be fallacious, all im saying is that their are plenty of names/societies under the banner of "The Catholic Church" which have different doctrines. As far as i see it we are becoming more and more like the Protestants, yet because we dont use the word "denomination", we are different? I guess the definition of "denomination" would be clearer...
@thefullnelson1 Sir, your usage of the term denominations was not just fallacious, it betrays the meaning of what a denomination is. If you understood what you were talking
about you would not have heaped in groups that are NOT even denominations and groups that are not even considered Catholic! It's silly. Before you think that
Catholicism is morphing into Protestantism, I suggest you learn about the faith.
Also please define the words SOLELY and ALONE in regards to the catechism, ill be very surprised if they are not synonyms with your use of the word ONLY. You also never answered on the axiom of catholic faith and also the protestant faith, we all have an axiom if we have faith, yet what is yours? Look forward to your response, i hope its not as attacking and degrading as your earlier responses... Note,Novus Ordo was more relating to "Vatican2 Mass" than the eucharist.This is found in the mass.
@thefullnelson1 I understand everything you are saying, but it's unfortunate that you clearly aren't understanding simple concepts of the faith. Once more, you claimed that the
Novus Ordo was a denomination? That makes no sense at all. Novus Ordo is not even a title for a Mass. The Novus Ordo is NOT a "Vatican 2 Mass"--it does
@thefullnelson1 Furthermore, you also heaped the Eastern Orthodox in as a denomination of the Catholic Church! Sir,
I hate to be blunt-but you don't have a clue as to the simplest matters of theology. I respect you as a brother in the faith, but I don't appreciate people making
claims that are clearly elementary and then claiming they are Catholic.
And "100 The task of interpreting the Word of God authentically has been entrusted "solely" to the Magisterium of the Church,that is,to the Pope and to the bishops in communion with him."Notice in the post below the word "ALONE" in CCC85 & above here in CCC100 "SOLELY".GNRHead you said - "NOWHERE is it CATHOLIC teaching that "ONLY" the "Popes and Bishops" can interpret the Scriptures in an authoritative manner."Without being personally degrading to a catholic,clarify your position regarding CCC.
@thefullnelson1 You are misunderstanding what the Catechism teaches. The Church is merely reiterating what Trent put forth--it is only the Church that can definitely interpret the
Scriptures--but the interpretations are truths that have been grouned since Apostolic times. The Church merely reiterates what has always been held as the truth.
It is rather simple. I hope this clears it up for you.
The catechism teaches,85 "The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has been entrusted to the living teaching office of the Church alone. Its authority in this matter is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ."47 This means that the task of interpretation has been entrusted to the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome.
@thefullnelson1 That is true sir, but you are missing the point. No Bishop or Pope gives THEIR INTERPRETATION to the text--they have rather safeguarded the true teaching
of Holy Writ and therefore are merely expounding what has been taught since Apostolic times. We must be clear here. No Pope or Bishop gives their own
twist to the text--they merely REPEAT the true teaching of the Church.
Hi GnrHead,I live in australia and i am a catholic,i never questioned your authenticity of being a catholic yet you accuse me by the manner write? Im putting forth questions to you, due to personal studies into this field and also wanting to know my catholic faith better. Please dont get upset or feel threatened, and distort my letters in doing so, I respect more from a catholic brother.Yet you are responding, i believe, in a manner that is degrading & be-littling without answering the quetions.
@thefullnelson1 I am sorry sir, but I HIGHLY doubt you are Catholic. And if you deign to CALL yourself Catholic, you are one that is confused about the faith. I aim to hopefully
bring you closer to the Faith that Christ left us. I humbly apologize if I lacked charity to start off with--I guarantee you it was not my intention.
This would be a great video except Camping said "No church believes every word of the Bible came from God." That's hardly the conviction of a Bible believer. Better luck next time...
@tonyb408 Whatever Mr. Camping says in that context does not eliminate the fact that he trumpets Sola Scriptura from the rooftops! I've got archives from his show of him promoting it and it's plastered all over his website. The fact that his version of Sola Scriptura differs from the classic Lutheran one only goes to highlight my position even more! Thanks!
(READ 2 BELOW FIRST) You are inconstant in your arguement aswell as your are clearly against sedivacantist yet,why do you stop there?St.Pius X are still not in full communion with the church!Then their are MASSIVE doctrinal differences between the branches within the Church,one which people dont think about is the time we need to fast before the Eucharist!Some teach 3 hours & some teach 1 hour! Its a pretty important truth when its the difference between truly receiving & not truly receiving!
@thefullnelson1 Once more sir, any group that is opposed to Catholic teaching is not Catholic. Sedevacantists, as they are called, are NOT Catholic. Their teachings are DIAMETRICALLY opposed to Catholic teaching. They are a cult. They have abandoned the Biblical text and the traditions of the Church. They're dangerous. Period.
(READ BELOW FIRST)However the church authoritatively teaches that no man can interpret the scriptures authentically except the pope and the bishops (magisterium).This includes me and you.So what i find hard to accept is how you can exploit the protestants by this invalid argument when we all know the Catholic Church today is littered with "denominations" who teach & believe different fundamental doctrine.ie. St.Pius X,Novus Ordo,Opus Dei,Eastern Orthodox, Preistly Frat.St Peter,the list goes on.
@thefullnelson1 I am sorry sir, but your premise is flawed from the get go. You seem to have a distorted understanding of Catholic teaching. Nowhere is it Catholic teaching that only the "Popes and Bishops" can interpret the Scriptures in an authoritative manner. No MAN can give their novel interpretation to a verse(s) of Holy Writ. The only time the Church formally defines a passage is when there is evidence that the passage was held to be the overwhelming interpretation from the very get go.
@thefullnelson1 Furthermore, it's rather obvious you are not a Catholic. No Catholic writes in the manner you are writing--and furthermore to think that the NOVUS ORDO(which is a form of the Eucharist! hahahaha) is a denomination is not just erroneous, but it's outrageously hilarious. Then you list the Opus Dei and the ORTHODOX as Denominations in the Catholic Church? I honestly have NO idea where you get your information or your studies from--but you surely have no idea what you're talkingabout
Hi GnrHead, from my understanding "SS" is the Axiomatic premise/truth for the protestant belief? Just like ours is "the church".Axioms can never be proven to be true as thats the very nature of them, they are the first truth that rules all truth. We should and must have good "reasons" for them but they can never be proven. Some Catholics say the bible teaches that "the church" is the Authority,however this means that the bible taught us our first truth and therefore would be,by effect,our Axiom.
But what if, in searching through ancient works, I come upon the 6th canon of the Council of Nicaea, which gives equal authority to the Bishops of Rome, Alexandria and Antioch? Or I take my spiritual guidance from the lives of the Holy Fathers Pope Alexander VI or Pope John XII? What if I listen to Sedevacantists, who make the same claims to Catholic spiritual continuity? What then?
@curvalecce It would be nice, if only that Canon really DID give them EQUAL authority. In fact, Canon 6 of Nicaea only goes as far as to even SOLIDIFY the Catholic position even more. It's a FANTASTIC canon that backfires against the Protestants who read it in isolation and misunderstand it. As far as the Sedes go, they're yet another fractious group of Protestantism. They are not Catholic. Sorry.
With the doctrine of sola scrptura you could never have a council where you define a doctrine and make it binding on Christians believers . Like for example the Reformed Baptist could never call a council for Protestants of the world and define infant Baptism as heresy or define double predestination as true, binding on the Christian mind. Where the Catholic Church could hold a council with all the Bishops around the world and define a doctrine and make it binding on the Christian mind.
I am convinced that the Catholic Church conforms much more closely to all of the Biblical data,offers the only coherent view of the history of Christianity(i.e.,Christian,apostolic tradition),and possesses the most profound and sublime Christian morality,spirituality,social ethic and philosophy.
I am Catholic because I sincerely believe,by virtue of much cumulative evidence,that Catholicism is true,and that the Catholic Church is the visible Church divinely-established by our Lord Jesus Christ,against which the gates of hell cannot and will not prevail(Mt 16:18),thereby possessing an authority I feel bound in Christian duty to submit.
-Dave Armstrong,150 reasons I'm Catholic and you should be too.-
SCREW YOU! I WANTED TO DO THIS!!!!
ThePuppyTurtle 2 months ago
Sola Scriptura makes no sense. The Bible does not claim to be the sole authority. The pillar and foundation of truth is the church (1 Tim 3:15).
megaead69 4 months ago
gnrhead, Why must you claim sola scriptura is a practice that causes disunity? In fact Sola scriptura has more unity than a church of Scripture and/or tradition + infallible interpreter. I can compare 5 denominations who hold to sola scriptura and compare them to 3 churches that hold to Scripture and/or tradition + infallible interpreter and the unity between the churches holding to sola scriptura would be extremely smaller than that of the Scripture and/or tradition + infallible interpreter.
Onetruthrgv 5 months ago
@Onetruthrgv
Because it is. Can you name those churches beside Catholic church that follow the tradition and still have completely opposite teachings?
Best regards, Jakov
jakovcu 1 month ago
@jakovcu Easter Orthodox is the only one that comes to mind but I am talking about sola scriptura vs infallible interpreter, Tradition is not the issue here.
Onetruthrgv 1 month ago
Sola Scriptura merely means that Scripture alone is the infallible, inerrant, and God-breathed source for Christian doctrine and practice. It has nothing to do with interpretations, much less with Camping. That's a different topic.
It seems with so many of you that if all else fails, misrepresenting Protestantism and lying for the "Mother church" is the way to go.
I fail to see on what grounds you set yourself up as an apologist.
AgApE010 7 months ago
Not only is SOLA SCRIPTURA unsupported by the Bible it is clearly contradicted by many many passages in the Bible. Just go through your Bible & notate every passages of the Gospels where Jesus is noted as speaking but we are not told what He said. What Jesus says is by definition the word of God. But if there is no word of God outside of scripture, then a Prot. most hold that what Jesus said was not the word of God. An absurd contradiction.
VictorLepanto 8 months ago
This video reminds me of what St. Athanasius wrote about the Arians
For being forced from the conceptions or rather misconceptions of their own hearts, they fall back upon passages of divine Scripture, and here too from want of understanding, according to their wont, they discern not their meaning; but laying down their own irreligion as a sort of canon of interpretation , they wrest the whole of the divine oracles into accordance with it (Discourse Against Arians 1:52)
Thanks for video
vtaylor21 9 months ago
I was nervous about 5/21, because if the Lord would've come, it would've meant that the church apostasy had happened (2Th 2v3). I'm a sedevacantist, but I still attend the new mass as an observer, because I know that any man that believes something false can't help it. We're born that way, and we don't have control over our thoughts. God does. He saves us. He reveals truth to us. He can send a working of delusion to chasten us. May we all be humble and give God glory for everything.
DanielJohn2300 9 months ago
I love your videos. And yes, another proof how wrong Protestants are. I'm glad I went home to the one true church.
Naturalhit 9 months ago
There is something particular about many saying we are "Catholic". The reason is simple. Many (including early protestants) believe that THERE´S ONLY ONE UNIVERSAL CHURCH (modern protestants claim another foolish thing).
They are ruled by Nicea-constatinopolitan creed, that uses the word catholic (ONE UNIVERSAL).
So, as 1 day-a-week catholics, many others use the term as a generic condition, but the truth is far beyond that.
They are simply heretic,or cismatic NOT denomination.
AFhobbie 9 months ago
Also my whole use of the word "denominations" was meant to be fallacious, all im saying is that their are plenty of names/societies under the banner of "The Catholic Church" which have different doctrines. As far as i see it we are becoming more and more like the Protestants, yet because we dont use the word "denomination", we are different? I guess the definition of "denomination" would be clearer...
thefullnelson1 9 months ago
@thefullnelson1 Sir, your usage of the term denominations was not just fallacious, it betrays the meaning of what a denomination is. If you understood what you were talking
about you would not have heaped in groups that are NOT even denominations and groups that are not even considered Catholic! It's silly. Before you think that
Catholicism is morphing into Protestantism, I suggest you learn about the faith.
gnrhead 9 months ago
@thefullnelson1 I hope my videos can provide some help. If you have any general question
as regards the Catholic faith-I would recommend you check out my blog, my site, my Youtube site, or anything on the Catholic Legate site-for orthodox
Catholic teaching. GOD bless you buddy!
gnrhead 9 months ago
Also please define the words SOLELY and ALONE in regards to the catechism, ill be very surprised if they are not synonyms with your use of the word ONLY. You also never answered on the axiom of catholic faith and also the protestant faith, we all have an axiom if we have faith, yet what is yours? Look forward to your response, i hope its not as attacking and degrading as your earlier responses... Note,Novus Ordo was more relating to "Vatican2 Mass" than the eucharist.This is found in the mass.
thefullnelson1 9 months ago
@thefullnelson1 I understand everything you are saying, but it's unfortunate that you clearly aren't understanding simple concepts of the faith. Once more, you claimed that the
Novus Ordo was a denomination? That makes no sense at all. Novus Ordo is not even a title for a Mass. The Novus Ordo is NOT a "Vatican 2 Mass"--it does
not come from Vatican 2. That makes no sense sir.
gnrhead 9 months ago
@thefullnelson1 Furthermore, you also heaped the Eastern Orthodox in as a denomination of the Catholic Church! Sir,
I hate to be blunt-but you don't have a clue as to the simplest matters of theology. I respect you as a brother in the faith, but I don't appreciate people making
claims that are clearly elementary and then claiming they are Catholic.
gnrhead 9 months ago
Comment removed
thefullnelson1 9 months ago
And "100 The task of interpreting the Word of God authentically has been entrusted "solely" to the Magisterium of the Church,that is,to the Pope and to the bishops in communion with him."Notice in the post below the word "ALONE" in CCC85 & above here in CCC100 "SOLELY".GNRHead you said - "NOWHERE is it CATHOLIC teaching that "ONLY" the "Popes and Bishops" can interpret the Scriptures in an authoritative manner."Without being personally degrading to a catholic,clarify your position regarding CCC.
thefullnelson1 9 months ago
@thefullnelson1 You are misunderstanding what the Catechism teaches. The Church is merely reiterating what Trent put forth--it is only the Church that can definitely interpret the
Scriptures--but the interpretations are truths that have been grouned since Apostolic times. The Church merely reiterates what has always been held as the truth.
It is rather simple. I hope this clears it up for you.
gnrhead 9 months ago
The catechism teaches,85 "The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has been entrusted to the living teaching office of the Church alone. Its authority in this matter is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ."47 This means that the task of interpretation has been entrusted to the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome.
thefullnelson1 9 months ago
@thefullnelson1 That is true sir, but you are missing the point. No Bishop or Pope gives THEIR INTERPRETATION to the text--they have rather safeguarded the true teaching
of Holy Writ and therefore are merely expounding what has been taught since Apostolic times. We must be clear here. No Pope or Bishop gives their own
twist to the text--they merely REPEAT the true teaching of the Church.
gnrhead 9 months ago
Hi GnrHead,I live in australia and i am a catholic,i never questioned your authenticity of being a catholic yet you accuse me by the manner write? Im putting forth questions to you, due to personal studies into this field and also wanting to know my catholic faith better. Please dont get upset or feel threatened, and distort my letters in doing so, I respect more from a catholic brother.Yet you are responding, i believe, in a manner that is degrading & be-littling without answering the quetions.
thefullnelson1 9 months ago
@thefullnelson1 I am sorry sir, but I HIGHLY doubt you are Catholic. And if you deign to CALL yourself Catholic, you are one that is confused about the faith. I aim to hopefully
bring you closer to the Faith that Christ left us. I humbly apologize if I lacked charity to start off with--I guarantee you it was not my intention.
gnrhead 9 months ago
This would be a great video except Camping said "No church believes every word of the Bible came from God." That's hardly the conviction of a Bible believer. Better luck next time...
tonyb408 9 months ago
@tonyb408 Whatever Mr. Camping says in that context does not eliminate the fact that he trumpets Sola Scriptura from the rooftops! I've got archives from his show of him promoting it and it's plastered all over his website. The fact that his version of Sola Scriptura differs from the classic Lutheran one only goes to highlight my position even more! Thanks!
gnrhead 9 months ago
@gnrhead If a person 'trumpets' 2 contradictory statements, only 1 can be true. Duh! Even a catholic should be able to figure that out.
tonyb408 9 months ago
(READ 2 BELOW FIRST) You are inconstant in your arguement aswell as your are clearly against sedivacantist yet,why do you stop there?St.Pius X are still not in full communion with the church!Then their are MASSIVE doctrinal differences between the branches within the Church,one which people dont think about is the time we need to fast before the Eucharist!Some teach 3 hours & some teach 1 hour! Its a pretty important truth when its the difference between truly receiving & not truly receiving!
thefullnelson1 9 months ago
@thefullnelson1 Once more sir, any group that is opposed to Catholic teaching is not Catholic. Sedevacantists, as they are called, are NOT Catholic. Their teachings are DIAMETRICALLY opposed to Catholic teaching. They are a cult. They have abandoned the Biblical text and the traditions of the Church. They're dangerous. Period.
gnrhead 9 months ago
(READ BELOW FIRST)However the church authoritatively teaches that no man can interpret the scriptures authentically except the pope and the bishops (magisterium).This includes me and you.So what i find hard to accept is how you can exploit the protestants by this invalid argument when we all know the Catholic Church today is littered with "denominations" who teach & believe different fundamental doctrine.ie. St.Pius X,Novus Ordo,Opus Dei,Eastern Orthodox, Preistly Frat.St Peter,the list goes on.
thefullnelson1 9 months ago
@thefullnelson1 I am sorry sir, but your premise is flawed from the get go. You seem to have a distorted understanding of Catholic teaching. Nowhere is it Catholic teaching that only the "Popes and Bishops" can interpret the Scriptures in an authoritative manner. No MAN can give their novel interpretation to a verse(s) of Holy Writ. The only time the Church formally defines a passage is when there is evidence that the passage was held to be the overwhelming interpretation from the very get go.
gnrhead 9 months ago
@thefullnelson1 Furthermore, it's rather obvious you are not a Catholic. No Catholic writes in the manner you are writing--and furthermore to think that the NOVUS ORDO(which is a form of the Eucharist! hahahaha) is a denomination is not just erroneous, but it's outrageously hilarious. Then you list the Opus Dei and the ORTHODOX as Denominations in the Catholic Church? I honestly have NO idea where you get your information or your studies from--but you surely have no idea what you're talkingabout
gnrhead 9 months ago
Hi GnrHead, from my understanding "SS" is the Axiomatic premise/truth for the protestant belief? Just like ours is "the church".Axioms can never be proven to be true as thats the very nature of them, they are the first truth that rules all truth. We should and must have good "reasons" for them but they can never be proven. Some Catholics say the bible teaches that "the church" is the Authority,however this means that the bible taught us our first truth and therefore would be,by effect,our Axiom.
thefullnelson1 9 months ago
But what if, in searching through ancient works, I come upon the 6th canon of the Council of Nicaea, which gives equal authority to the Bishops of Rome, Alexandria and Antioch? Or I take my spiritual guidance from the lives of the Holy Fathers Pope Alexander VI or Pope John XII? What if I listen to Sedevacantists, who make the same claims to Catholic spiritual continuity? What then?
curvalecce 9 months ago
@curvalecce It would be nice, if only that Canon really DID give them EQUAL authority. In fact, Canon 6 of Nicaea only goes as far as to even SOLIDIFY the Catholic position even more. It's a FANTASTIC canon that backfires against the Protestants who read it in isolation and misunderstand it. As far as the Sedes go, they're yet another fractious group of Protestantism. They are not Catholic. Sorry.
gnrhead 9 months ago
With the doctrine of sola scrptura you could never have a council where you define a doctrine and make it binding on Christians believers . Like for example the Reformed Baptist could never call a council for Protestants of the world and define infant Baptism as heresy or define double predestination as true, binding on the Christian mind. Where the Catholic Church could hold a council with all the Bishops around the world and define a doctrine and make it binding on the Christian mind.
jmctigret 9 months ago
I am convinced that the Catholic Church conforms much more closely to all of the Biblical data,offers the only coherent view of the history of Christianity(i.e.,Christian,apostolic tradition),and possesses the most profound and sublime Christian morality,spirituality,social ethic and philosophy.
yellowballpoets 9 months ago
I am Catholic because I sincerely believe,by virtue of much cumulative evidence,that Catholicism is true,and that the Catholic Church is the visible Church divinely-established by our Lord Jesus Christ,against which the gates of hell cannot and will not prevail(Mt 16:18),thereby possessing an authority I feel bound in Christian duty to submit.
-Dave Armstrong,150 reasons I'm Catholic and you should be too.-
yellowballpoets 9 months ago
Great video, as usual, gnrhead!
szybkilopez566 9 months ago
Great Video,
Ave Maria!
redbaron998 9 months ago