Dennis Prager: The Case for Judaism at the 92nd Street Y

[Capitalist09]

Wow, he sounds like a minister. Very smart man.

[israelifaggot]

get lost prager, i developed these same values without judaism. the torah is filled with barbaric laws and stories of mass murder rape and genocide by jewish prophets. the talmud curses non jews and jesus. today jews reject all these violent teachings, not because a new book has come down, but because secularism has come down. real judaism is about jews being superior to non jews and making them slaves, todays judaism is just a shoddy cutting job of the original religion.

[metalic699]

@israelifaggot You are misinformed. These values did not exist until the 10 commandments which were disclosed to the world by the Jews. This is the reality and that means that you did in fact develop these values from Judaism. Furthermore, It is this for this purpose that the Jews are considered "chosen" not because they are somehow superior. On the contrary the Torah clearly states that just men of all nations are preserved a space in heaven

[israelifaggot]

bullshit, there were religions before judaism. hinduism, buddhism, they managed to teach killing was wrong before the ten commandments came down. infact while the buddha was peaceful the jewish prophets moses and joshua were bloody psychopaths who massacred entire towns even killing children. i dont take any values from judaism, real orthodox judaism is violent. today we see a pussy secular judaism that is not authentic judaism.

[metalic699]

@israelifaggot your and idiot .. dont waist my time

[israelifaggot]

waste, not waist, learn to spell oh illiterate one, and learn the truth of your religion while your at it.

[haypenny]

@israelifaggot Secular regimes like the Nazi regime and Communist regimes were not Jew friendly. Forced secularism or forced theism is tyranny. And although Atheism is not religion, Secular Humanism is. Nations that promote freedom to practice any religion or no religion at all are the most successful. Getting rid of religion will not bring world peace, humans will be flawed regardless - and zealotry is not exclusive to theism. Even the founding fathers who were atheist understood this truth.

[haypenny]

@sulljoh1 You are extremely ignorant. The Nazi's murdered millions of Christians, including my great Aunt in Grini, in Norway. Early on, Hitler, whose mother was Catholic, sometimes used religious language for political gain, and was even tolerant toward gays for a time, until that no longer served his purposes either. The only 'religion' that was allowed and promoted was the worship of the State via Norse-Paganism (Aryan Myth). Nothing was done in the name of a God - only the State. Read a book

[haypenny]

@sulljoh1Sweetie, here's the bottom line. No one in either the Nazi regime, nor the Communists regimes were acting on behalf of any faith, let alone Christianity. No one.They were zealots for the State. period. The second part of that bottom line is that no one on earth, whether religious or atheist is entirely guiltless or entirely guilty. No one. If religion died tomorrow something else will be born in it's place; just like with Nazi Germany, etc. It is the human condition. There is no Utopia.

[sulljoh1]

@haypenny I agree with most of that second point. But you are just claiming none of the Nazi's had any faith. What were they doing going to regular catholic confessions then? (as most of them did) When they told their confessors that they spent the day killing Jews, what did those priests say? I would really like to know. There was a lot more antisemitism in the church in those days, and whatever you say it did, at least partially, ally with Hitler against the godless communists.

[haypenny]

@sulljoh1 I never claimed 'none of the Nazi's had any faith'. I am telling you that their actions had nothing to do with faith, and nothing to do with Christianity. For decades the Left has been trying desperately to tie Hitler to the right wing and to Christians because the truth that the Nazi regime was socialist & secular tends to condemn their side. Likewise, people who despise religion revise history blaming all of the world's wars on religion when in truth all humanity shares blame.

[sulljoh1]

@haypenny I don't know of an secularist today who would blame all wars on religion. Not even atheists like Christopher Hitchens or Richard Dawkins. I don't blame religion for the Nazi's That would be absurb.

The point I have been trying to make is that it was not a purely secular phenomena like the Soviet Union was, and the Catholic right wing was at least appeasers.

[haypenny]

@sulljoh1 Who is saying that 'ALL' secularists do? Yes, Hitchens is very libertarian.Dawkins however, is very hostile to religion. And a secularist is not necessarily an atheist. Secularists are simply against public displays of religion. A secularist may even be a Christian; If a few Nazis self-identified as Catholic, it doesn't mean that the regime & its ideology were not secular. Nazism & Communism are secular tyrannies. Sorry, I though you knew the difference between atheism & secularism.

[sulljoh1]

@haypenny I do know the difference, thank you. if you re-read what I said you'll see I did not actually say they were the same thing.

"...I don't know of a secularist today who would blame all wars on religion. Not even atheists like..."

Mr. Prager is critical of secularism and I assumed you were a fan of his.

You say "If a few Nazi's self-identified as Catholic" It wasn't a few, it was the majority, and a significant number of those were regular church goers. I'll give you the Soviets

[haypenny]

@sulljoh1 I didn't mean to be condescending, I just wasn't clear as to whether you understood the difference. Anyway, it doesn't matter if ALL Nazis were Buddhists. The regime forced secularism and is secular philosophically [although, warped]. They needed to draw people away from the distraction of religion so it could achieve their end; worship of the regime. If the Nazis wished to mass murder atheists rather than Jews & Christians, they likely would've encouraged religious zealotry instead.

[sulljoh1]

@haypenny What sort of regime would have resulted if most Germans were Buddhists, Methodists, atheists, or religious Jews? You could be right that Hitler would have manipulated those societies the same way, or maybe Catholic antisemitism and fear of communism need to take some of the blame. (While praising those Christians who resisted in public and private) There is no way to know for sure.

[haypenny]

@sulljoh1 Honey, I was being facetious about the Buddhism thing, but I think you got the point. But ya know, even though they're thought of as the most peaceful, they've been warring with China forever and a day now. Just goes to further illustrate that no group is free of error. In any event, tyranny is tyranny - whether secular like Nazism / Communism or theocratic like Afghanistan or Iran. Hey - have you seen the debate between Prager & Hitchens? It's a good one no matter what side you're on.

[sulljoh1]

@haypenny I've seen the one on his show and the one with Prager and Dinesh a few times. Prager is one of the best apologists for religion out there. Well I think we understand each other. Thanks for the informative exchange

[haypenny]

@sulljoh1 Yes, I like Dinesh a great deal too. Take Care buddy.

[misterdeity]

@haypenny @haypenny Nazism wasn't secular humanism. It was another totalitarian ideology which did not allow questioning, debate, reason, etc... like every monotheistic religion. It demanded faith and obedience, and it piggybacked on 2,000 years of Christian antisemitism where the Jews were called (right in the Bible) the children of the Devil! And the Catholic Church didn't have a problem with that because the Nazis where fulfilling God's word! How do you not see that?

[haypenny]

@misterdeity It's not secular humanism, just secular. I'm not going to keep debating with anyone who doesn't study Holy Text. If you wish to believe that Nazism was tyrannical monotheism,or that Anti-Semitism [a cancer far more prevalent on the left than the right] is a Christian mandate [that you interpret inaccurately] be my guest. And If you choose to ignore dozens of biblical mandates to love the Jews, enjoy. Glib interpretations have no credibility. If you're confused, just research it.

[misterdeity]

@haypenny How presumptuous of you. I studied religion (and was intensely religious) for many years. Indeed, I studies WITH Dennis Prager and used to put together his "Ultimate Issues" newsletter. Are you really going to sit here and tell me that Christianity wasn't horribly anti-semitic for 1400 years? And then you're going to tell me that I need to research? Are you freakin' kidding me? And what has right and left got to do with it? You should really read more before you comment.

[haypenny]

@misterdeity My intent wasn't to insult you, but if you studied the Bible specifically, you'd know about it's instructions regarding Jews, and you'd understand what Christ meant when he admonished the Jews of his time. And of course Jews have been oppressed by Christians too [by twisting scripture, as they did to justify slavery as well].There's hardly a group left on earth that hasn't treated Jews horribly.That notwithstanding, Christians are still the staunchest allies of the Jews & Israel.

[misterdeity]

@haypenny Today that might be true, but if you know anything about Christian history, you know that it was the most systematically anti-semitic religion on the planet. Indeed, the New Testament canonized anti-semitism by calling them the children of the Devil. I knew Dennis well, and I can tell you that he doesn't know crap about history. He reads the first two chapters of a book or reads a review in the NYTimes and thinks he knows what he's talking about. Christianity gave us the Holocaust.

[haypenny]

@misterdeity Based on what you've said, you do not understand. Not fully anyway. We're not going to agree, and as I said before - if you're adamant in your assertion that Christianity caused the Holocaust, and Christians are the most anti-semetic, etc., obviously nothing you hear or read will give you a broader view. And you seem to intensely dislike Prager personally, so that is another bias that interferes. Anyway - take care. No hard feelings.

[misterdeity]

@haypenny What a cop out! I will listen to facts. But you don't have any (haven't offered one) because the history of Christianity is filled with anti-semitism. Do you really think that the Holocaust could have happened without the centuries of preparation laid down by Christianity (both Catholic and Protestant)? This is exactly what your side does -- instead of engage, you withdraw back into the safety of your ignorance and say, "you won't hear me anyway." That's just cowardly, my friend.

[misterdeity]

@haypenny From Martin Luther: "enomous beasts, vipers, disgusting scum, canders, devils incarnate. Their private houses must be destroyed and devastated, they could be lodged in stables. Let the magistrates burn their synagogues and let whatever escapes be covered with sand and mud. Let them force to work, and if this avails nothing, we will be compelled to expel them like dogs in order not to expose ourselves to incurring divine wrath and eternal damnation from the Jews and their lies."

[haypenny]

@misterdeity That says more about Luther than it does about the Bible my friend. And as I said, Jews have faced oppression from every corner of the world from religious and non-religious alike. Right now, Iran has expressed an ambition to wipe Israel off the map. If you wish to read some scary Anti-Semitism, read the Qu'ran & Hadith. And with Obama's treatment of Israel, and his plans to disarm - I'm utterly terrified.The far Left in the west has displayed nothing but contempt for Israel.

[misterdeity]

@haypenny Again, not one fact with regard to the topic at hand. Just present-day finger pointing. Apparently, like Prager, you know nothing of Christian history either. Why do you think all the leaders of the various denominations have had to come out and apologize for their faith's history of anti-Semitism? Before the Nuremberg laws, Canon law restricted the rights of Jews and established the template for the modern police state followed by Hitler, Stalin, and Mao. You have to read!!!!

[misterdeity]

@haypenny And if the Qu'ran scares you, try the Hebrew Bible which canonized genocide, the murder of homosexuals, sabbath-breakers, non-virgins, disobedient children, and people of other faiths! Where do you think this stuff started? Islam today is no different from the Christianity of 500 years ago -- 600 years of Inquisition! 300 years of witch hunts! The only thing that stopped that nightmare was the secular humanist philosophies of the enlightenment which birthed this country.

[haypenny]

@misterdeity Our secular humanist saviors; a group of uncorrupted, non-violent truth tellers, who've never done any harm to anyone. The only group of enlightened perfect humans, whose unblemished history proves Utopia is indeed possible. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Marx, Lenin, Castro, Che, etc, - all covert Christians, right?

Freedom of religion and freedom to reject religion is the mark of a truly free society. The Founding fathers were Deists, Theists, and Atheists working together.

[misterdeity]

@haypenny I thought you'd go for the false dichotomy next. Fact: People came to this country to escape the nightmare of Christian Europe. Whatever inclinations the founding fathers had, they codified in our Constitution a system which rejected the Christianity from which they came. Freedom of speech, religion, assembly, press, rights of privacy, fair trials, search and seizure, etc... -- these are all things humanity had to fight Christianity to acquire. Christian Europe was a terrorist state.

[haypenny]

@misterdeity You've convinced me. All the world's misery comes from Judaism & Christianity - not so much Islam. Secularists have never done anything bad, ever - ever. Everyone who's bad - is a Christian or a Jew. Everyone who is awesome - is a secularist. Every single murderous tyrant who's ever walked the earth - was crazy for Jesus. All present day tyrants are totally gay for God. Secularists are superior beings; a race of supermen if you will. I praise our Godless overlords. Thanks pal.

[misterdeity]

@haypenny Well, I was hoping for a mature response to the facts which I presented. It's a simple question: When Christians had power (like Muslims do now) what kind of world did they give us? Either you don't know or are embarrassed to say. But your response is that of a nine-year old (not exactly unexpected from a Prager fan). And by the way, Islam is no better!!! All three religions prove that "Ethical Monotheism" and "religion of peace" are oxymorons -- whether Judeo/Christian or Muslim.

[haypenny]

@misterdeity Yes, absolutely. When Christians had power, they gave us a horrible hellish world. Secularists gave us a world of rainbows & candy trees, like the paradise of Vietnam. No war, tyranny, firing squads or genocide - just freedom.Hurray Che, Mao, Stalin, Lenin, Castro, Chavez, Pol Pot, Hitler..wait, those guys were all dirty Christians, right? You're going to keep getting 'immature' answers because your only assertion is that Christians suck, secularists rule. Why debate further.

[misterdeity]

@haypenny At least you admit you're being immature. That's the first step - admitting you have a problem. For the record, the countries you mention were/are Communist or Fascist, not secular humanist (i.e.: human rights). America, for instance, is a secular humanist country, as is Canada, Britain, France, etc... -- countries which value human rights and have constitutionally kept religion from acquiring power (secularism). I await your next childish reply, but vainly hope for maturity instead.

[haypenny]

@misterdeity This is my final reply. Goodnight. God Bless.

[misterdeity]

@haypenny Very well, but you should really start giving people the benefit of the doubt. You accuse someone of being unwilling to hear, so they say to you, "give me the facts" and offer their own, and all they get from you is snotty, childish responses. I guess when you've been part of a system which has completely suppressed other opinions for hundreds of years, you don't learn how to make an actual argument or reason with others. You take your bat and ball and go home. Very sad.

[realstress]

@haypenny Sorry, you are wrong: The most evil man in human history, Adolf Hitler, was secular. And another great criminal, Stalin, was secular as well. So, your phrase "secularists have never done anything bad" has a zero value.

[haypenny]

@realstress Wow. Yes, it does have 'value' - it's called sarcasm. I was being sarcastic when I wrote "secularists have never done anything bad" - haven't you read the other dozen or so comments I posted?

[realstress]

@haypenny No, I haven't read your other comments.

[israelifaggot]

@haypenny, i agree with most of what u said, i dont however agree with that lying twist son of a bitch prager who thinks the torah is the source of freedom and democracy. a book that extolls slavery, that says one race of people are superior to all others, thats says a raped woman should be forced to marry her rapist. i have no problem with the secular, liberal jews. but prager is a religious wolf in sheeps clothing. trust me when i say he is an extremist and a liar.

[10sodot]

how does prager define sin,holiness ?

creating a problem where there is none.

he may come across as more advanced than boteach.

but this notion does'nt last very long

[tonyschmoeredux]

I am a Dennis Prager fan. He does a good radio show.

[AdiZetaFunction]

He should have lived 65 years ago in Nazi Germany.

[stevebritgimp]

This is a good video, which I enjoyed. For my own part being opposed to religion, I would say that religion deals with 'revealed knowledge', and so only operates at a level of understanding of revelation. Science allows true understanding. So we don't lick from bowls when other people are around, because we mutually conceal our animal natures from each other, because we find them unpleasant. It isn't necessary to invent divine authority to make us moderate our behaviour in social situations.

[cjla1987]

Hello, buddy. I'd claim that there isn't any wisdom to be learned from science. Science can provides us with knowledge (data, facts, information, raw facts) but not wisdom. Wisdom is an understanding. Am I saying that Religion is better? No. What does the law of thermodynamics offers me in terms of wisdom? Sure, it enables me to the study of the conversion of heat energy into different forms, but what is the wisdom to be learned from that? Nothing. All it did it provided facts and information.

[stevebritgimp]

Indeed not, but then the conversion of heat energy, such as by opening a fridge door, is the same on a Saturday as it is any other day of the week. There is such a thing as a 'kosher' fridge - kosher probably not being the right word. The study of science can certainly illuminate the lack of wisdom in certain things.

[cjla1987]

Wisdom is an UNDERSTANDING. This man, Dennis Prager, is full of it. I have been listening to him for 4 years now. Have you listened his lectures on the radio? They are wonderful. You said, "science can certainly illuminate the lack of wisdom in certain things." What do you mean by that? Can you develop it a little bit further or give examples?

[cjla1987]

Very rhetoric. I admire you, Dennis. Your deep understanding of life and human condition are crucial for America . You have not only knowledge but an understanding of complex human affairs and issues regarding many areas. I listen to your show and I am deeply grateful that I found you so that I can keep learning about life. Thanks Dennis for your contributions. You are my buddy.