Hi man, liked you video, but I think there are a couple of things that need to be clarified :
1.Faith is not a curse , stupidity , greed and ignorance are . Without them , faith would not exist.
2.It has been said that stupidity and arrogance go hand in hand. See comment about the secrets of religion being hidden from educated people and revealed only to believers. I guess you're barking at the wrong tree.
@thrdel speaking at me in near nonsensical cliches and platitudes doesn't work well for me. I'm not even quite sure what you're saying. Why not make an argument in your own words that makes rational sense to you rather than just repeating things you heard somewhere else before.
If you look at Hebrews 11, what you see is a conflated use of the word faith, (used as a starting point from which a relationship with God grows, Heb. 11:6) a little like your def. (or as an addition to past experience and evidence from which greater confidence is required), more everyday type of faith. It’s not simple coincidence that both forms of the word appear side by side here. No wonder that the word developed to contain both meanings.
@djhopler I don't anticipate a big diffrence in our ideas concerning the defintion of the word evidence, rather most likely won't see eye to eye in terms of our interpretation of evidance provided in the universe toward a belief in God. I think the key word here is plausability. What is more plausible based on the data/evidence currently available to us? Is it more plausible to believe that the universe evolved unaided randomly. Or was it aided by a Creator? the basic theist vs. atheist prob
Sorry Mystery, using two email accounts. By your definition of “faith,” you maybe referring to your previous belief system, or from your atheist perspective you maybe building a “straw man” (a perspective on Christian faith that is easy to tare apart). Your explanation of faith comes no where close to describing the Christian “faith” I personally adhere to, nor to the personal faith of deep Christian thinkers. No wonder you gave up your def. of faith. Look forward to your reply.
@rkengelhard Wow! What a typical response from a religious person (any religion). I thought mystry described faith perfectly. I would love to hear what your faith is like. I guess mystry didn’t spend enough time in Sunday school getting that real faith beat into his head. Everyone is born an atheist.
Mystery, thanks for the reply. By your definition of “faith,” you maybe referring to your previous belief system, or from your atheist perspective you maybe building a “straw man” (a perspective on Christian faith that is easy to tare apart), your explanation of faith comes no where close to describing the Christian “faith” I personally adhere to, nor to the personal faith of deep Christian thinkers. No wonder you gave up your def. of faith. Look forward to your reply.
Oh I'm sorry if I sounded abrasive. That wasn't my intent. Name-calling isn't my bag either man. I'm just trying to understand you. Don't you think that saying that no evidence what-so-ever exists for God is a little steep? There are a lot of very intelligent Christians out there. The Bible is a book scrutinized for centuries. Everybody is looking for error in the Bible, and yet it has stood the test of time don't you think? I enjoy talking with you dude!
@djhopler certainly there is evidence for god... the bible is evidence for god for instance. However the bible is hardly good evidence and that's the problem--there's just no good objective evidence. Obviously you might have a different view, but that's mine.
@djhopler The bible has certainly not stood up to unbiased scrutiny. Jesus of Nazareth never existed before the 2nd century. No proof of the Jews being held captive in Egypt- the lists is way to lengthy for a response in this box. Out of that one book comes over 30,000 denominations. The followers of that book cannot agree amongst themselves. Please outline the evidence for god.
@psychicpriest I meant the town of Nazareth did not exist prior to the 2nd century. And what about the census talked about in the bible? At no time was there a census where families had to travel to another town to get counted. Yet that is what the bible claims.
My friend when you use believe and faith in the same sentence you are being confusing. If you believe anything you are using faith to believe it based upon the evidence. It takes a grand amount of faith to believe that there is no purpose to the universe. The evidence points to a Creator.
@MystryBox Hmm.... Well it doesn't seem like your responding to the context of my comment. I guess I would just ask what you mean by believing without faith? What's your definition of faith? Thanks!
@djhopler my definition of faith is the definition used in the bible by Paul. The believe of things hoped for but not seen... i.e. you hope something is true but there is no evidence it really is true but you believe it anyway because you're an idiot who uses wishful thinking in place of common sense.
@MystryBox Mystery Box: I have a problem with your definition of “faith.” We all must used faith when describing anything factual. Faith recognizes that humanity is not omniscient (we don’t know everything that is possible to know). Faith understands complete answers require complete knowledge, something we are incapable of. We use proper faith to fill in the gaps of the puzzle that is partially solved. Something we will always be constrained to do because of humanity’s corporate limitation.
@rkengelhard the sort of every day "faith" is nothing like religious faith. You're comparing the expectation that when you sit on a chair it will hold your weight (which you expect because of ample evidence and past experience), to a religious faith in unseen magical beings. To conflate one usage of faith with religious faith removes all meaning from the word for the theist. When I use the term faith I mean the religious faith of belief without evidence.
@MystryBox Mystery Box: I have a problem with your definition of “faith.” “Good faith” recognizes that humanity is not omniscient (we don’t know everything that is possible to know). Faith understands complete answers require complete knowledge, something we are incapable of. We use proper faith to fill in the gaps of the puzzle that is partially solved. Something we will always be constrained to do because of humanity’s corporate limitation.
This video doesn't make sense. There is a misunderstanding. The Athiest in this video talks about "believing on faith". He says that using faith to believe things is unreasonable. The logical error lies in this man's inability to see that believing in anything implies faith. My friend, you have no idea how the universe began. It takes a lot of faith to believe there is no purpose behind the universe. The evidence points to a Creator.
This video doesn't make sense. There is a misunderstanding. The Athiest in this video talks about "believing on faith". He says that using faith to believe things is unreasonable. The logical error lies in this man's inability to see that believing in anything implies faith. My friend, you have no idea how the universe began. It takes a lot of faith to believe there is no purpose behind the universe. The evidence points to a Creator.
the shit we can get together and look at evidence! gods work is clearly visible in instant healings! ive experienced it first hand so no one will ever take that from me! period *****explain that*****
You are right in saying that faith cannot be proven, but it doesn't need to be. That is why it is faith. Peter Kreeft said that the way we know things is by experience and reasoning and from my experiences God is very present in my life. The reasoning is in all the world around us. How can something so complex like our bodies come from nothing and work the way that is does without having someone be the master designer of it all?
You are right in saying that faith cannot be proven, but it doesn't need to be. That is why it is faith. Peter Kreeft said that the way we know things is by experience and reasoning and from my experiences God is very present in my life. The reasoning is in all the world around us. How can something so complex like our bodies come from nothing and work the way that is does without having someone be the master designer of it all?
You are right in saying that faith cannot be proven, but it doesn't need to be. That is why it is faith. Peter Kreeft said that the way we know things is by experience and reasoning and from my experiences God is very present in my life. The reasoning is in all the world around us. How can something so complex like our bodies come from nothing and work the way that is does without having someone be the master designer of it all?
You are right in saying that faith cannot be proven, but it doesn't need to be. That is why it is faith. Peter Kreeft said that the way we know things is by experience and reasoning and from my experiences God is very present in my life. The reasoning is in all the world around us. How can something so complex like our bodies come from nothing and work the way that is does without having someone be the master designer of it all?
@kevins699 sorry but claims without decent evidence do not deserve belief. Your personal evidence I'm sure seems enough for you, however it's trivial to notice people of every religion feel the exact same way about their faith. Obviously your experiences are not confirmation your faith is true as much as they are a common human experience. That's the truth and you know it as well as I do.
@MystryBox I stumbled on your videos today, and I really enjoyed them all, thank you...
In relation to this one ... when you've mentioned things from bible and then made a conclusion then those things are irrational, I caught myself with the question, that I wish to share with you... Here is the question: "Why he suggests that those things should be taken literally? Like man coming from dirt or other things you've mentioned..." (2:07) And I agreed with everything you've said before that moment.
@yurigglutube Many people do take the bible literally and I come from a protestant background where the bible was taken literally. Some people don't take the bible literally and I think that sort of pick-and-choose style of religion doesn't stand up either rationally or honestly. Do you think the people writing the bible stories (beyond the clear parables) were writing figuratively, or do you think those were actual stories they believed? How do you pick and choose what you accept?
@MystryBox Let me share with you my perception of this, I could look at bible as a set of rules for people without a developed critical thinking like yours and it seems to me it was meant to provide certain ideas about the world and how to survive in it, It's difficult to relay on things literally because some of them appear as nonsense then while the ideas that re behind those rules appears to me as not baseless.Which brings me to suggestion that a very literal interpretation creates nonsense
@MystryBox And now about standing up rationally or honestly ...
Perhaps the very honesty and literal interpretation are those things that are very against those ideas on which bible build ... and may be it is kind of a tip from this book, like "going honestly and literally you end up with nonsense".
Isn't that what happens with religion? It appears as nonsense for smart people and cause for wars and injustices whenever it tries to be very right and one sided about own interpretation of text..
@MystryBox Yes I do suggest that things in the bible are figurative and some of them just irrelevant text here and there ... I also think that each person has it’s own interpretation, so it is just impossible task to run after delivering exact meaning and I think someone who was behind putting things in this book was smart enough to know that .
@kevins699 A lot of theists ask the question "how can something come from nothing?" well none of this came from nothing, you make this claim without actually knowing anything about the origin of life. You obviously haven't looked into any scientific evidence for how this world was formed. Do that. Then make your claims.
sorry you lost your faith bud. but you're worm dirt when you die, and others believe otherwise. Sad thing is it bothers you and other atheists how others are happy with their faith. Sure you use the war excuse, but that's more a power struggle. In the end, there isn't anything you can do about it, except maybe convince your children and weaker friends. true?
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@MrWillnrach faith, belief in whatever you want for no good reason at all. Some ancient doofus tells you it's a virtue to believe without evidence and you take him at his word? Sorry, that's not for me.
@MrWillnrach I have plenty of hopes, loves, challenges, etc. to live for in this life. Yes, I have no dreams of magical lands I'll go to after I die where we all ride around on little boats and listen to dolls sing "it's a small heaven after all" for eternity. So I guess that means I better live my life now when I have it rather than wasting it going to church and submitting to someone else's view of what I'm supposed to be and do.
@MrWillnrach I don't expect any "after life" if that's what you're asking. We've all experienced what it's like to not be alive (it's the state we were in before we were born), and obviously that's the state we return to when our lives are over. However the things I've done in my life, my children, and even humanity in general and the universe (which I'm a part of), continue on... so my having existed has a longer term meaning.
can I let you in on a secret mystrybox??? reality isn't real. the atoms of everything composing this "real world" never ever come in contact with each other, yet your senses form a cohesive environment. explain that one thru logic and reason lol.
Since you proudly claim to be such a logical and rational person, how do you think the universe was created if matter cannot be created or destroyed? Also how do you think life came to be without an infinitely intelligent God? As, you must admit if you are rational and logical, DNA is entirely too complex to come together by chance let alone a single cell organism coming into being on its own. Are my questions legitimate?
@CaribbeanSkies if energy (not matter) cannot be created or destroyed then the universe wasn't created so asking how it was is nonsensical. The life and DNA question are the same, and they most likely came about through natural processes the same was as everything else we observe in the universe that is complex and apparently inexplicable. Everything we've ever discovered or figured out has had a natural explanation--why would DNA be different?
@MystryBox I was just pointing out that the chances of DNA forming by itself and lending itself to life is an absolute mathematical absurdity. Basically, a mathematical impossibility. It's unrealistic.
@CaribbeanSkies the authors you read who supposedly calculate the odds of DNA coming together are not taking into account many factors... these include selection and the fact the proteins naturally form in some ways and not others. In fact there have been experiments where electricity is put through a "primordial soup" and the result was amino acids spontaneously forming (the building blocks of DNA). Google abiogenesis for more on the subject.
@LetReasonPrevail1 thanks. I think that the points made in this video are 95% of all that needs to be said on the matter of Christianity. The rest is just detail.
There is no evidence for the biblical narrative in archeology. Wooly for instance thought he had found evidence of the flood in layers of an excavation he conducted at Ur but those layers have conclusively been shown to be localised deposits. The occurrence of names on documents which superficially match biblical characters are like coming across the the name smith in a german phone book and professing to have discovered the descendant of the one who forged Thores hammer.
why do u people keep saying there is no evidence for the bible of the truth of gods words , people in the middle east cant believe that we even debate this because it is so evident to them , there are digs all over the middle east showing proofs , you just to lazy to go there and see all the evidence
Sorry but archeological evidence of locations or whatever isn't evidence that the highly unlikely supernatural stories claimed in the bible actually happened. So unless you dig up Jesus still alive and smiling there's no evidence for the bible claims to be dug up in the middle east. Or maybe you're just too lazy to use your brain to realize that.
Haha, you replied. You know that idiot MuleHead54? He replied to me to what I said to him and he said you blocked him because you couldn't answer his question. I told him you blocked him because you answered all of his question but he refused to understand them. Am I wrong?
@trdcld We keep saying it because there is no evidence for the bible archeologically historically or for that matter through literary criticism. That would be why we keep saying it.
Very good video. You made a very good point on how other religions are interpreted as false or not true by a certain believer. That is a very good way to look at it. These things are very good stories and i do see a lot of mythology in them. Just recently ive started studying how some of the first Hebrews were black, or so believed. And it makes me look at the Torah/Bible very differently. Its like a gestalt at times and it just hits me that its can be just a history book.
MystryBox doesn't realize what he is saying here - again. The truth is that atheists also to have faith to be atheists. they have FAITH that there is no God and they won't have to answer to Him someday. They have FAITH that the universe came into existence out of nothing by some other super-force other than God. They also have FAITH that the complex ecosystem we have on this planet was started by some accident or some other random cause. Also the Bible does not say the earth is 6000 years old.
Go away MuleHead. I've explained to you multiple times in other videos how I don't claim there is no god and how lack of belief is not a position of faith (it's LACK of faith, the opposite!!). If you are too stupid to understand that you're not someone I wish to discuss with.
@Mulehead54 Why wouldn't ANYONE want to answer to an almighty being? I would love to if there was some sort of proof. Not all atheists believe in Darwinism. Just as they don't believe in god, they might not feel there is enough evidence of evolution.
I don't really know what your point in saying that the bible doesn't say the earth is 6000 years old. But if you are saying that to say it sounds irrational then the earth being created in 6 days is not any different.
It very is the truth! It's hard for a lot of people to admit that something is the truth. And when they are confronted about it, they intend to hide their feelings and get upset because they are scared and have no defense.
Put it this way. Everyone has faith. Is there darkness? No. There is light, little light, and no light. "Darkness" is a way to say an absense of light. How do you know there is a suck thing as darkness? You would have to have faith to believe in it. Or it could be the other way around. Is there light? No. There is darkness, little darkness, or no darkness. "Light" could be another way of saying the absense of darkness. How do you know light is there? You have faith in that it is there.
We observe light and darkness, nobody needs faith to believe in such things. We don't observe things like people rising from the dead or the sun stopping the sky. From what we do observe such claims are apparent myths. To believe such things are actually real and not myth requires faith as there is no good evidence to support the belief.
But we can't observe no light. We just have faith in that it is not there. People believe that if you can't hear it, see it, or touch it, it must not exist. We can't touch, see, or hear darkness. So it must no be there. But everyone says there is a thing called darkness. Obviously they must have faith that it is not there. I can see where you are coming from though.
Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of
heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy.
Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it. You must have faith to know it is there.
But you can't see it, smell it, taste it, so how do you know it is there? By touch, am I correct? You feel the presence, and have faith to know its there. Then how do you know Jesus is there? You can't see him, smell him, or taste him. By touch, am I correct? You feel his presence, and have faith that he is there.
We can observe heat, light and also the lack of those. No faith is required. Do you understand the difference between things we can tangibly observe and things that can't be distinguished from things that don't exist? You need faith for one but not the other.
this argument is bland.... and quite honestly stupid. Cold is just a word made up my man to describe a lack of heat. One can feel a lack of heat, one can measure a lack of heat, one can see a lack of heat... how?one can feel that it is not as warm out or one can measure with a thermometer or see that the leaves are falling off the trees when the "lack of heat"aka cold comes. this does not require any faith.
jesus however does require faith... you may be able to see him but i cannot. In order for something to not require fatih it has to be universally felt, seen, touched, heard, or tasted. It cannot be selective to certain people. Gravity applies to all, not a select few. When we jump... we fall. IT requires no leap of faith if this happens to everyone on the planet. To say that jesus is the same as "cold" is ridiculous
When you refer to the people who did all these miracles in the Bible, it was just not a normal person, it was Jesus. Irrationality or not, faith is what it is, faith, and allow people to have faith in what they want, stop trying to disprove faiths. Until you die, and come back and mention what happens after you die, you are all wrong.
And how do you know Jesus wasn't a normal person? Because the bible says he did the various miracles right? So it's ok Jesus did miracles in the bible because he wasn't a normal person and we know he wasn't a normal person because the bible says so and has him doing miracles... Google "circular reasoning" sometime because you do it in spades.
You said exactly what I could only hope to say perfectly
Faith is a curse is a perfect way to put it. I'm fascinated with trying to understand how people can still cling to such beliefs, look you straight in the eye and with all seriousness tell you that yes Mohammad did in fact fly into the clouds on Pegasus or that yes there really was a talking snake in the garden of Eden and it tricked Eve into eating a fruit. how does an adult say that and feel no contradiction with reality?
They believe because their parents and peers believe. The real wonder is how the first group of people start to believe... but then people were a lot more ignorant hundreds to thousands of years ago and maybe that's not a surprise.
yea true too, but there is still something that i can't resolve which is this: If your parents and peers believe that the earth is 6000 years old and you have been educated properly how do you actively chose to ignore the facts for obvious nonsense. Why isn't education as effective as it should be at saving someone from dogmatic thinking?
Its so hard to grasp, I was brought up being told that religion was mythological, in other words my parents are atheists. As I matured I was introduced to people who believed that these myths were true, and I kept asking why, they would bring up the word faith, and I took it as a valid argument. Now that you have explained what faith really is, I am confused as to how these people are so delusional. Its mind boggling and sort of makes me mad.
Is there an explanation as to why these people are so delusional, and proud of it?? How can one openly admit thinking talking snakes, zombies, turning water into wine, walking on water, etc are scientifically true?? I never get an answer from them, they just keep trying to tell me about how wonderful God is and I need to be saved among other none sense.
I can't handle it, I'm going to explode in fits of anger and end my life or something, this is so ridiculous, I want to rid of all these idiots!!! they're driving me insane.
Either that or you really are an agnostic who explodes in fits of suicidal anger over the irrationality of theists. And if that's the case you should be talking to mental health professionals rather than me.
Well that's why I wanted you to adress my comment - wishful-thinking again on my part ;) . If faith breeds irrationality breeds conflict, than we should indeed rise above those things. But if irrationality seeks facet breeds conflict - well then I'll tell you what it's like. It's like saying the reason this mad murdered another is because he has a knife in his hand. It's insufficient.
"Faith brings aspects of hell to the this world. It brings mysery and conflict. It's behind most of the wars in history. People are dying every day because of the nature of faith."
I want you to defend this comment. I contend people die every day because of the nature of humanity. Your argument appears: Faith -> irrationality -> conflict. Mine is, Irrationality -> Facet (perhaps "faith") -> conflict.
So defend these claims. Give me something concrete.
You're asking me to defend what is obvious. As the video says faith doesn't lend itself to rational conflict resolution. There are religious wars going on that have been going on for generations. It's true humans are irrational in additional ways but that doesn't give faith a free pass. If you want further concrete evidence of what the video says just open any newspaper.
What is your point? That because humans are irrational in multiple ways (including faith) that we shouldn't point out these irrationalities where we see them and try to rise above them?
Why pretend to fight the good fight against faith in the face of its atrocities on humankind? Its like saying we should send Blacks back to Africa because there are some who, historically, have grieved the justice system insufferably. Yes, thats true, but so is it true for the rest of humanity. Suffice to say, you are contrary to believers and want to be contentious. But so what? The intellectual climate is highly atheist; youre just another insignificant cog in the atheist machine.
What's funny is you can't deny the simple logic of the video and so have nothing more than a rather laughable attack on me as a "cog". Just remember who it's not the atheists that meet together every week in millions of tax sheltered buildings across the country. So a better place to find a "cog" might be a mirror. Thanks for the comment.
Im saying if you can rationalize something then what would you need faith for? We need faith because it is impossible to rationalize God...If God could be rationalized he would not be God...You do know what i mean....and some of the stories you bring up you are taking out of context and you know it....I bet if we told those bible characters that there was a man that could pull an antire plane by himself they would think it was insane, but guess what its still true...so its possible for those too
Listen to yourself, you're not arguing for god, you're arguing for faith. Faith is belief without evidence--it's stupid, abused by all religions, invented by men to control other men, and if there were a god he wouldn't need it and would have nothing to do with it. You don't need faith, that's the point. That you need faith is a lie all religions teach people because they have no evidence. Why do you believe it?
We are ants, on an apple, sitting in a giant fridge. Why? No idea.
100 billion galaxies is a fact. Scary isn't it. Why ? No idea.
What I do know for a fact however is that good people do good things. Bad people do bad things but it takes for religion for good people do to bad things.
The human race is in dark dark days of evolution. For us to progress as a species, faith and religion has to go.
Agreed. I always found itodd that people instantly refute the church of the invisible spaghetti monster saying that is stupid, unrealistic, fairytail-like etc.. yet is it really that much different from christianity..? should the stories in the bible really easier to believe than saying that a giant inviible spaghetti monster created the earth? Nope.
you said you cannot rationalize faith and i agree, but if we could rationalize faith then we could rationalize God, but if we could rationalize God then would he really be God? If God could be rationalized and everything he does then he would not be God, if he could be rationalized then that would mean we could put god in box and i do not believe that is possible...
What does that even mean? Just because something might be objectively known to exist that doesn't make it any less. If anything it makes it more significant... moving it from myth to reality.
Religion is a community for people, that many people welcome as a savior. Once in, its hard to leave because it creates a belonging (family) (same for most other communities) The destructive power of religion lies in that you have to let go of your reason, otherwise you're out, & in many cases the religion bonds with other ones like family or school/work. Its sad that religion has such large impact on wars and hate, but if you can get out without a big personal loss, the world would be grateful.
I get the whole "religion as a community/social thing" but the strange requirement that everyone believes something highly unlikely is what gets me. I don't understand why and how people do it and do it so easily.
Yes, I see your point. Its difficult to understand this "stupidity". My point is that people basicly buy this concept because of personal gain, the religious community is well funded with lots of "news" and events. You might get in there because of this, just as you would choose to join a well maintained school club or any other hobby.
I believe that the brainwashing thing starts after this, people joins this community for other reasons than belief and faith but after awhile you start to confuse the good feelin of "belonging and family" and most of all appriciation (does it spell that way? sorry im from sweden) from your "friends" with this made up evidence "I feel jesus in me" and so on..
I really really would like to see a world without religion. But you really cant expect some people with religion as their supporting pillar in life to part with it without giving them proof that god does not exist. Religion is like a blanket in a cold cellar, you rather stick with it in the dark than going up and out finding its actually summer. Sadly, not everyone is capable of this.
you make a point but i dont think u should bring religion into youtube. and seriously, there isnt dragons and unicorns in the bible. but i know that everytime i miss out on an oppurtunity for almost anything, its for a reason and that reason is always a good one. i seriously doubt thats karma and im christian i pray every day multiple times and the majority of the time, it comes true. I think u should reconsider christianity. Just start praying for one day, thats all im asking of u pray a to god
i may be a child, but only because you are what 50? You have buck teeth and look like a gerbil. Its no surprise you have never found a woman stupid enough to even consider you.
Faith is believing in something when there is no evidence for it, or there is evidence against it. ComedyJesus has made short videos about the "Strongest belief in God contest":
But the devout believers will just ratioalize by telling themselve you've been deceived by satan or have failed to receive the holy spirit. In other words, to be a believer, irrationality and a gut feeling are a requirement.
Also, you have based your own belief's on faith itself. If not, and you want myself and others who have faith in God, then instead of being subject (like the entire video), how about some OBJECTIVE facts or truths rather to better support your cause, video..whatever.
I'm not the one making extraordinary claims about gods existing. If you want objective facts you should be asking them from those making the claims. All I'm doing is pointing out the fact that those that make such claims do not support them.
Okay, however, since I have faith in God or as you put it "Wishful Thinking," and you were to try to convince me otherwise...I am asking for some objective facts that support what you're saying regarding God not existing.
I don't claim god doesn't exist--I don't know if gods exist or not. I just don't see any good evidence they exist. Given the lack of evidence for an extraordinary claim the rational position to take is doubt. If you want to believe anyway, go ahead.
Note that specific claims can be largely dismissed. I give several examples in the video... the sun stopping in the sky for instance. Such a thing is highly unlikely and really can't be believed by reasonable people on a mere claim in a book.
That is the sad thing, you have no faith. Faith is not a curse; were you alive when "Muhammad rode a winged horse into heaven?" you never know.. until their is physical proof disproving religion, both sides have no argument.
Sorry but I don't need to have been there to know it is highly unlikely anyone rode a winged horse and it is more likely such a story is legend. We have millions of examples of such legendary stories and zero evidence of winged horses. So the most likely and rational conclusion is the story is legend not history. This is called how to think rationally and critically--look into it sometime.
Anyone that makes an extraordinary claim that goes against what we all commonly observe (like a winged horse) they need to provide good evidence for the claim if they expect anyone to believe. As there is no good evidence and as a rational, responsible adult, I don't believe such claims.
Could you specify where in The Bible it talks of angels having sex with human women, since angels are characterized in The Bible as anatomicaly inadimant
See the first few verses of Genesis 6. Also google "Nephilim." Note that Christians don't agree among themselves on what those verses mean (nor of much of anything really).
Valid points. However, you make statements concerning "virtue" and that our species "needs to grow up". Unfortunately though, without a viable and greater meaning behind morality, everything is Nihilistic. There is no morality. There is no real right or wrong. Morality is just something that developed when these weird multicellular symbiont beings developed things called "pack preservation" and "self preservation". Its an adaptation our minds are stuck in. Rape, murder, etc. is all relative.
Sorry but the lack of a supernaturally created purpose does not equal no purpose. Believe it or not non-religious people and cultures still find plenty of meaning and purpose in life. Similarly morality is not dependent on some external supernatural being (see my video "Source of Morality" for further on my opinion on that).
You presume I was arguing a supernaturally created Earth and a supernatural being. I'm not. I'm arguing there being any concrete meaning in general behind anything. All is relative, including morality, which is an adaptation. It's the same things as a leaf's waxy coating. It is a genetic mutation with the propagation of a species as it's driving force. As long as what i do preserves me and doesn't allow my stance in the "pack" to diminish at all, what i do is moral. Theres no reason beyond that.
ur my hero. i didnt think there was anyone who believed EXACTLY the same way i did logically and based on solid scientific fact. it sux when u realize u have surpassed ur parents mentally because they c through this so called "Jesus Blind" thing. the worst thing is that u cant convince them that ur right even when there is true scientific fact to prove it.
Thanks for the video. Simple candidness is nice. I think a lot of theists think all atheists are just "mad" about the world, and have "rejected" God. But you are proof that that is simply not true.
I am curious: In the video where you explained what you believe you said that you don't believe in any gods, because you haven't seen any good "reasons to believe" in any gods. But then, in this video you describe the nature of faith as lacking any good reason by definition. Please explain to me why this is consistent.
Actually, as you define it in this video, I would also see faith as a vice. But, I do not think I define faith as you do. One should have "reasons to believe."
I don't have a problem with personal belief in god... what might be called deism. I recognize god cannot be disproven. However this is quite distinct from faith in revealed religions. There you have a surety of faith that goes well beyond belief there is something "out there" but rather a claim of precise knowledge of what that god is and what he wants to the point where you're willing to infringe on the rights of others because of it (e.g. kill them, force them to believe, etc).
I am mostly talking about very obviously unreasonable or dangerous faith. I think faith in general is also a bad idea but I don't have a problem with faith that is largely tempered by observed reality.
As I already implied a few posts up, I don't think deistic faith is a bad idea. I was a deist myself for a while. I consider deism direct faith in god and not particularly unreasonable or dangerous. However *revealed religions* (like Christianity, etc.) are faith in men/prophets and those are unreasonable and dangerous (for all the reasons I detail in my videos).
As a christian I believe there is plenty of good reasons to believe God does exist.
Yes in the end you do need faith but faith is required in science as well on how we got here.
I recomend a video called "science-where does the evidence point"with William lane Craig.
Atheist regimes have also killed and forced people not to believe but I'm not going to use that argument because its PATHETIC (by the way atheist regimes killed fare more than religion).
And of all the various religions and beliefs, which one should I decide to believe based on such logic? You yourself reject thousands of religious beliefs... shouldn't you believe them just to be safe?
so i really do respect u as a guy trying to make a statement about what u think about religion. ur actually starting to get me to think about what people are actually wanting me to believe as to what i actually do believe. ur probably my most respected guy on youtube because u actually went thru what im going thru now. which is believing in christianity but now starting to believe that some things are not really believable. so im going to look into christianity and see what i come up with.
Hi man, liked you video, but I think there are a couple of things that need to be clarified :
1.Faith is not a curse , stupidity , greed and ignorance are . Without them , faith would not exist.
2.It has been said that stupidity and arrogance go hand in hand. See comment about the secrets of religion being hidden from educated people and revealed only to believers. I guess you're barking at the wrong tree.
thrdel 1 month ago
@thrdel speaking at me in near nonsensical cliches and platitudes doesn't work well for me. I'm not even quite sure what you're saying. Why not make an argument in your own words that makes rational sense to you rather than just repeating things you heard somewhere else before.
MystryBox 1 month ago
what u dont understand is.. not enough thinks as clean as u
AntDX316 4 months ago
Thank you, Lord, for hiding these things from the wise and learned (those with book knowledge), and revealing your truth to simple men of good heart.
mknomad5 6 months ago
@mknomad5 talking to people that aren't there isn't a good sign.
MystryBox 6 months ago
If you look at Hebrews 11, what you see is a conflated use of the word faith, (used as a starting point from which a relationship with God grows, Heb. 11:6) a little like your def. (or as an addition to past experience and evidence from which greater confidence is required), more everyday type of faith. It’s not simple coincidence that both forms of the word appear side by side here. No wonder that the word developed to contain both meanings.
yessslife 11 months ago
Hmm... ok. Well it's probably important to find a common ground. What is your definition of Evidence? I think that's pretty important don't you?
djhopler 11 months ago
@djhopler I don't anticipate a big diffrence in our ideas concerning the defintion of the word evidence, rather most likely won't see eye to eye in terms of our interpretation of evidance provided in the universe toward a belief in God. I think the key word here is plausability. What is more plausible based on the data/evidence currently available to us? Is it more plausible to believe that the universe evolved unaided randomly. Or was it aided by a Creator? the basic theist vs. atheist prob
rkengelhard 11 months ago
Sorry Mystery, using two email accounts. By your definition of “faith,” you maybe referring to your previous belief system, or from your atheist perspective you maybe building a “straw man” (a perspective on Christian faith that is easy to tare apart). Your explanation of faith comes no where close to describing the Christian “faith” I personally adhere to, nor to the personal faith of deep Christian thinkers. No wonder you gave up your def. of faith. Look forward to your reply.
rkengelhard 11 months ago
@rkengelhard Wow! What a typical response from a religious person (any religion). I thought mystry described faith perfectly. I would love to hear what your faith is like. I guess mystry didn’t spend enough time in Sunday school getting that real faith beat into his head. Everyone is born an atheist.
FRdemo9 6 months ago
Mystery, thanks for the reply. By your definition of “faith,” you maybe referring to your previous belief system, or from your atheist perspective you maybe building a “straw man” (a perspective on Christian faith that is easy to tare apart), your explanation of faith comes no where close to describing the Christian “faith” I personally adhere to, nor to the personal faith of deep Christian thinkers. No wonder you gave up your def. of faith. Look forward to your reply.
yessslife 11 months ago
Oh I'm sorry if I sounded abrasive. That wasn't my intent. Name-calling isn't my bag either man. I'm just trying to understand you. Don't you think that saying that no evidence what-so-ever exists for God is a little steep? There are a lot of very intelligent Christians out there. The Bible is a book scrutinized for centuries. Everybody is looking for error in the Bible, and yet it has stood the test of time don't you think? I enjoy talking with you dude!
God Bless,
Daniel
djhopler 11 months ago
@djhopler certainly there is evidence for god... the bible is evidence for god for instance. However the bible is hardly good evidence and that's the problem--there's just no good objective evidence. Obviously you might have a different view, but that's mine.
MystryBox 11 months ago
@djhopler The bible has certainly not stood up to unbiased scrutiny. Jesus of Nazareth never existed before the 2nd century. No proof of the Jews being held captive in Egypt- the lists is way to lengthy for a response in this box. Out of that one book comes over 30,000 denominations. The followers of that book cannot agree amongst themselves. Please outline the evidence for god.
psychicpriest 3 weeks ago
@psychicpriest I meant the town of Nazareth did not exist prior to the 2nd century. And what about the census talked about in the bible? At no time was there a census where families had to travel to another town to get counted. Yet that is what the bible claims.
psychicpriest 3 weeks ago
My friend when you use believe and faith in the same sentence you are being confusing. If you believe anything you are using faith to believe it based upon the evidence. It takes a grand amount of faith to believe that there is no purpose to the universe. The evidence points to a Creator.
Peace to you bro,
-Daniel
djhopler 11 months ago
@djhopler that's quite a lot of confused nonsense. This is what church does to an otherwise rational mind.
MystryBox 11 months ago
@MystryBox Hmm.... Well it doesn't seem like your responding to the context of my comment. I guess I would just ask what you mean by believing without faith? What's your definition of faith? Thanks!
djhopler 11 months ago
@djhopler my definition of faith is the definition used in the bible by Paul. The believe of things hoped for but not seen... i.e. you hope something is true but there is no evidence it really is true but you believe it anyway because you're an idiot who uses wishful thinking in place of common sense.
MystryBox 11 months ago
@MystryBox Mystery Box: I have a problem with your definition of “faith.” We all must used faith when describing anything factual. Faith recognizes that humanity is not omniscient (we don’t know everything that is possible to know). Faith understands complete answers require complete knowledge, something we are incapable of. We use proper faith to fill in the gaps of the puzzle that is partially solved. Something we will always be constrained to do because of humanity’s corporate limitation.
rkengelhard 11 months ago
@rkengelhard the sort of every day "faith" is nothing like religious faith. You're comparing the expectation that when you sit on a chair it will hold your weight (which you expect because of ample evidence and past experience), to a religious faith in unseen magical beings. To conflate one usage of faith with religious faith removes all meaning from the word for the theist. When I use the term faith I mean the religious faith of belief without evidence.
MystryBox 11 months ago
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@MystryBox Mystery Box: I have a problem with your definition of “faith.” “Good faith” recognizes that humanity is not omniscient (we don’t know everything that is possible to know). Faith understands complete answers require complete knowledge, something we are incapable of. We use proper faith to fill in the gaps of the puzzle that is partially solved. Something we will always be constrained to do because of humanity’s corporate limitation.
rkengelhard 11 months ago
This video doesn't make sense. There is a misunderstanding. The Athiest in this video talks about "believing on faith". He says that using faith to believe things is unreasonable. The logical error lies in this man's inability to see that believing in anything implies faith. My friend, you have no idea how the universe began. It takes a lot of faith to believe there is no purpose behind the universe. The evidence points to a Creator.
Peace to you,
Daniel
djhopler 11 months ago
This video doesn't make sense. There is a misunderstanding. The Athiest in this video talks about "believing on faith". He says that using faith to believe things is unreasonable. The logical error lies in this man's inability to see that believing in anything implies faith. My friend, you have no idea how the universe began. It takes a lot of faith to believe there is no purpose behind the universe. The evidence points to a Creator.
djhopler 11 months ago
the shit we can get together and look at evidence! gods work is clearly visible in instant healings! ive experienced it first hand so no one will ever take that from me! period *****explain that*****
XXXstuppiXXX 1 year ago
@XXXstuppiXXX "instant healings" are nothing of the sort. I can do them. They are a form of hypnosis.
MystryBox 1 year ago
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You are right in saying that faith cannot be proven, but it doesn't need to be. That is why it is faith. Peter Kreeft said that the way we know things is by experience and reasoning and from my experiences God is very present in my life. The reasoning is in all the world around us. How can something so complex like our bodies come from nothing and work the way that is does without having someone be the master designer of it all?
kevins699 1 year ago
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You are right in saying that faith cannot be proven, but it doesn't need to be. That is why it is faith. Peter Kreeft said that the way we know things is by experience and reasoning and from my experiences God is very present in my life. The reasoning is in all the world around us. How can something so complex like our bodies come from nothing and work the way that is does without having someone be the master designer of it all?
kevins699 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
You are right in saying that faith cannot be proven, but it doesn't need to be. That is why it is faith. Peter Kreeft said that the way we know things is by experience and reasoning and from my experiences God is very present in my life. The reasoning is in all the world around us. How can something so complex like our bodies come from nothing and work the way that is does without having someone be the master designer of it all?
kevins699 1 year ago
You are right in saying that faith cannot be proven, but it doesn't need to be. That is why it is faith. Peter Kreeft said that the way we know things is by experience and reasoning and from my experiences God is very present in my life. The reasoning is in all the world around us. How can something so complex like our bodies come from nothing and work the way that is does without having someone be the master designer of it all?
kevins699 1 year ago
@kevins699 sorry but claims without decent evidence do not deserve belief. Your personal evidence I'm sure seems enough for you, however it's trivial to notice people of every religion feel the exact same way about their faith. Obviously your experiences are not confirmation your faith is true as much as they are a common human experience. That's the truth and you know it as well as I do.
MystryBox 1 year ago
@MystryBox I stumbled on your videos today, and I really enjoyed them all, thank you...
In relation to this one ... when you've mentioned things from bible and then made a conclusion then those things are irrational, I caught myself with the question, that I wish to share with you... Here is the question: "Why he suggests that those things should be taken literally? Like man coming from dirt or other things you've mentioned..." (2:07) And I agreed with everything you've said before that moment.
yurigglutube 1 year ago
@yurigglutube Many people do take the bible literally and I come from a protestant background where the bible was taken literally. Some people don't take the bible literally and I think that sort of pick-and-choose style of religion doesn't stand up either rationally or honestly. Do you think the people writing the bible stories (beyond the clear parables) were writing figuratively, or do you think those were actual stories they believed? How do you pick and choose what you accept?
MystryBox 1 year ago
@MystryBox Let me share with you my perception of this, I could look at bible as a set of rules for people without a developed critical thinking like yours and it seems to me it was meant to provide certain ideas about the world and how to survive in it, It's difficult to relay on things literally because some of them appear as nonsense then while the ideas that re behind those rules appears to me as not baseless.Which brings me to suggestion that a very literal interpretation creates nonsense
yurigglutube 1 year ago
@yurigglutube you're right about the nonsense part.
MystryBox 1 year ago
@MystryBox And now about standing up rationally or honestly ...
Perhaps the very honesty and literal interpretation are those things that are very against those ideas on which bible build ... and may be it is kind of a tip from this book, like "going honestly and literally you end up with nonsense".
Isn't that what happens with religion? It appears as nonsense for smart people and cause for wars and injustices whenever it tries to be very right and one sided about own interpretation of text..
yurigglutube 1 year ago
@MystryBox Yes I do suggest that things in the bible are figurative and some of them just irrelevant text here and there ... I also think that each person has it’s own interpretation, so it is just impossible task to run after delivering exact meaning and I think someone who was behind putting things in this book was smart enough to know that .
yurigglutube 1 year ago
@MystryBox
So what to pick up? I think you can pickup everything and think about what it make
mean for you and what it is trying to tell you, while staying aware about possibility
of own misinterpretation ...
This way you also never sure enough to offend any one, by the way
yurigglutube 1 year ago
@kevins699 A lot of theists ask the question "how can something come from nothing?" well none of this came from nothing, you make this claim without actually knowing anything about the origin of life. You obviously haven't looked into any scientific evidence for how this world was formed. Do that. Then make your claims.
PrivateJoker17 1 year ago
sorry you lost your faith bud. but you're worm dirt when you die, and others believe otherwise. Sad thing is it bothers you and other atheists how others are happy with their faith. Sure you use the war excuse, but that's more a power struggle. In the end, there isn't anything you can do about it, except maybe convince your children and weaker friends. true?
gmfastburn 1 year ago
@gmfastburn People are free to believe silly things as they wish. And I'm free to point out that what they believe is silly.
MystryBox 1 year ago
@MystryBox True, and likewise.
gmfastburn 1 year ago
-MystryBox
Please refrain from presenting ignorant, unintelligent, and controversial topics in your videos. This may result in the termination of your account. At this time please read the community guidelines.
~TheYootubeAdmin
TheYooTubeAdmin 1 year ago
@TheYooTubeAdmin we should run a pool on how quickly your account gets shut down for impersonating youtube admins. I'd bet on less than a week.
MystryBox 1 year ago
well im prayin for u and in hebrews 11:1 says Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
MrWillnrach 1 year ago
@MrWillnrach faith, belief in whatever you want for no good reason at all. Some ancient doofus tells you it's a virtue to believe without evidence and you take him at his word? Sorry, that's not for me.
MystryBox 1 year ago
so u have no hope in life or look forward to after u die or even while ur living so ur nothing and have nothing rite
MrWillnrach 1 year ago
@MrWillnrach I have plenty of hopes, loves, challenges, etc. to live for in this life. Yes, I have no dreams of magical lands I'll go to after I die where we all ride around on little boats and listen to dolls sing "it's a small heaven after all" for eternity. So I guess that means I better live my life now when I have it rather than wasting it going to church and submitting to someone else's view of what I'm supposed to be and do.
MystryBox 1 year ago
ok so mystry box what do u believe in? and do u have any hope in the future when u die?
MrWillnrach 1 year ago
@MrWillnrach I don't expect any "after life" if that's what you're asking. We've all experienced what it's like to not be alive (it's the state we were in before we were born), and obviously that's the state we return to when our lives are over. However the things I've done in my life, my children, and even humanity in general and the universe (which I'm a part of), continue on... so my having existed has a longer term meaning.
MystryBox 1 year ago
can I let you in on a secret mystrybox??? reality isn't real. the atoms of everything composing this "real world" never ever come in contact with each other, yet your senses form a cohesive environment. explain that one thru logic and reason lol.
188Sozum 1 year ago
Since you proudly claim to be such a logical and rational person, how do you think the universe was created if matter cannot be created or destroyed? Also how do you think life came to be without an infinitely intelligent God? As, you must admit if you are rational and logical, DNA is entirely too complex to come together by chance let alone a single cell organism coming into being on its own. Are my questions legitimate?
CaribbeanSkies 1 year ago
@CaribbeanSkies if energy (not matter) cannot be created or destroyed then the universe wasn't created so asking how it was is nonsensical. The life and DNA question are the same, and they most likely came about through natural processes the same was as everything else we observe in the universe that is complex and apparently inexplicable. Everything we've ever discovered or figured out has had a natural explanation--why would DNA be different?
MystryBox 1 year ago
@MystryBox I was just pointing out that the chances of DNA forming by itself and lending itself to life is an absolute mathematical absurdity. Basically, a mathematical impossibility. It's unrealistic.
CaribbeanSkies 1 year ago
@CaribbeanSkies the authors you read who supposedly calculate the odds of DNA coming together are not taking into account many factors... these include selection and the fact the proteins naturally form in some ways and not others. In fact there have been experiments where electricity is put through a "primordial soup" and the result was amino acids spontaneously forming (the building blocks of DNA). Google abiogenesis for more on the subject.
MystryBox 1 year ago
A+ way to know your shit
jessicamarie200718 1 year ago
Dude, really well put. Lucid, clear & devastatingly on-point. Bravo.
LetReasonPrevail1 1 year ago
@LetReasonPrevail1 thanks. I think that the points made in this video are 95% of all that needs to be said on the matter of Christianity. The rest is just detail.
MystryBox 1 year ago
There is no evidence for the biblical narrative in archeology. Wooly for instance thought he had found evidence of the flood in layers of an excavation he conducted at Ur but those layers have conclusively been shown to be localised deposits. The occurrence of names on documents which superficially match biblical characters are like coming across the the name smith in a german phone book and professing to have discovered the descendant of the one who forged Thores hammer.
ooglebydoogleby 1 year ago
why do u people keep saying there is no evidence for the bible of the truth of gods words , people in the middle east cant believe that we even debate this because it is so evident to them , there are digs all over the middle east showing proofs , you just to lazy to go there and see all the evidence
trdcld 2 years ago
Sorry but archeological evidence of locations or whatever isn't evidence that the highly unlikely supernatural stories claimed in the bible actually happened. So unless you dig up Jesus still alive and smiling there's no evidence for the bible claims to be dug up in the middle east. Or maybe you're just too lazy to use your brain to realize that.
MystryBox 2 years ago
@MystryBox That must have hurt trdcld. Loved that argument btw.
CntthnkO15 1 year ago
I get so tired of people telling me archeology proves the bible. it does no such thing.
MystryBox 1 year ago
Haha, you replied. You know that idiot MuleHead54? He replied to me to what I said to him and he said you blocked him because you couldn't answer his question. I told him you blocked him because you answered all of his question but he refused to understand them. Am I wrong?
CntthnkO15 1 year ago
@CntthnkO15 I don't recall MuleHead54, but if I blocked him he probably made a personal attack.
MystryBox 1 year ago
@trdcld Whose god is right over whose? Why do you believe your god is better then other gods? Because they sound irrational? or?
CntthnkO15 1 year ago
@trdcld We keep saying it because there is no evidence for the bible archeologically historically or for that matter through literary criticism. That would be why we keep saying it.
ooglebydoogleby 1 year ago
nice video, where are jack's videos please?
SlimFitSam 2 years ago
Unfortunately he pulled his videos associated with me and I'm not sure he's on youtube anymore.
MystryBox 2 years ago
can you remember his username? it's be interesting to know how he can fault you.
SlimFitSam 2 years ago
I don't, it was over 2 years ago. We were on good terms though, he just pulled his video at some point.
MystryBox 2 years ago
David,
Very good video. You made a very good point on how other religions are interpreted as false or not true by a certain believer. That is a very good way to look at it. These things are very good stories and i do see a lot of mythology in them. Just recently ive started studying how some of the first Hebrews were black, or so believed. And it makes me look at the Torah/Bible very differently. Its like a gestalt at times and it just hits me that its can be just a history book.
alikokos 2 years ago
MystryBox doesn't realize what he is saying here - again. The truth is that atheists also to have faith to be atheists. they have FAITH that there is no God and they won't have to answer to Him someday. They have FAITH that the universe came into existence out of nothing by some other super-force other than God. They also have FAITH that the complex ecosystem we have on this planet was started by some accident or some other random cause. Also the Bible does not say the earth is 6000 years old.
Mulehead54 2 years ago
Go away MuleHead. I've explained to you multiple times in other videos how I don't claim there is no god and how lack of belief is not a position of faith (it's LACK of faith, the opposite!!). If you are too stupid to understand that you're not someone I wish to discuss with.
MystryBox 2 years ago
Its pretty clear he is discussing critical thinking in the video..Nothing else really.
alikokos 2 years ago
@Mulehead54 Why wouldn't ANYONE want to answer to an almighty being? I would love to if there was some sort of proof. Not all atheists believe in Darwinism. Just as they don't believe in god, they might not feel there is enough evidence of evolution.
I don't really know what your point in saying that the bible doesn't say the earth is 6000 years old. But if you are saying that to say it sounds irrational then the earth being created in 6 days is not any different.
CntthnkO15 1 year ago
holy shit my name is jack and im a christian.phew that scared me.
jacandgav 2 years ago
Heh, yeah the guy who I was originally responding to was named Jack :)
MystryBox 2 years ago
i think tony benn says it best the gosipal is about the kings who had power and the prohets who gave power to the people .
but the god this is silly but i still love the vatican
roman curia etc etc makes me feel better at when when my pussys feeling sad ahahaha
brandonlacavera 2 years ago
1.-) all the things you have said in this video are the fucking truth ..or
2.-) wow man i think satan put you in my way!!
djrobflow 2 years ago
It's all the fucking truth, and everyone knows it :)
MystryBox 2 years ago
It very is the truth! It's hard for a lot of people to admit that something is the truth. And when they are confronted about it, they intend to hide their feelings and get upset because they are scared and have no defense.
T69bonez 2 years ago
I like what you said at the end there
"it's time to grow up as a species"
Thats a perfect way of putting it, old dark age fear and repression will never help us move forward as a species
JacqueShredo 2 years ago
Thanks for the comment.
MystryBox 2 years ago
Put it this way. Everyone has faith. Is there darkness? No. There is light, little light, and no light. "Darkness" is a way to say an absense of light. How do you know there is a suck thing as darkness? You would have to have faith to believe in it. Or it could be the other way around. Is there light? No. There is darkness, little darkness, or no darkness. "Light" could be another way of saying the absense of darkness. How do you know light is there? You have faith in that it is there.
brogansheets 2 years ago
We observe light and darkness, nobody needs faith to believe in such things. We don't observe things like people rising from the dead or the sun stopping the sky. From what we do observe such claims are apparent myths. To believe such things are actually real and not myth requires faith as there is no good evidence to support the belief.
MystryBox 2 years ago
But we can't observe no light. We just have faith in that it is not there. People believe that if you can't hear it, see it, or touch it, it must not exist. We can't touch, see, or hear darkness. So it must no be there. But everyone says there is a thing called darkness. Obviously they must have faith that it is not there. I can see where you are coming from though.
brogansheets 2 years ago
Darkness is a lack of light and we can all observe darkness is the result of a lack of light. No faith is required.
Try some other example because faith is not required where simple observation works.
MystryBox 2 years ago
Take hot and cold for instince.
Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of
heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy.
Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it. You must have faith to know it is there.
brogansheets 2 years ago
I know what cold and darkness are and they don't require faith. We know all about these issues and there is nothing that needs to be taken on faith.
MystryBox 2 years ago
But you can't see it, smell it, taste it, so how do you know it is there? By touch, am I correct? You feel the presence, and have faith to know its there. Then how do you know Jesus is there? You can't see him, smell him, or taste him. By touch, am I correct? You feel his presence, and have faith that he is there.
brogansheets 2 years ago
We can observe heat, light and also the lack of those. No faith is required. Do you understand the difference between things we can tangibly observe and things that can't be distinguished from things that don't exist? You need faith for one but not the other.
MystryBox 2 years ago
Observing is an object or human that can be analyzed. You cannot analze hot, cold, light, or dark. For all anyone knows, it could not be there.
brogansheets 2 years ago
this argument is bland.... and quite honestly stupid. Cold is just a word made up my man to describe a lack of heat. One can feel a lack of heat, one can measure a lack of heat, one can see a lack of heat... how?one can feel that it is not as warm out or one can measure with a thermometer or see that the leaves are falling off the trees when the "lack of heat"aka cold comes. this does not require any faith.
srvfan04 2 years ago
jesus however does require faith... you may be able to see him but i cannot. In order for something to not require fatih it has to be universally felt, seen, touched, heard, or tasted. It cannot be selective to certain people. Gravity applies to all, not a select few. When we jump... we fall. IT requires no leap of faith if this happens to everyone on the planet. To say that jesus is the same as "cold" is ridiculous
srvfan04 2 years ago
When you refer to the people who did all these miracles in the Bible, it was just not a normal person, it was Jesus. Irrationality or not, faith is what it is, faith, and allow people to have faith in what they want, stop trying to disprove faiths. Until you die, and come back and mention what happens after you die, you are all wrong.
pantherspride22 2 years ago
And how do you know Jesus wasn't a normal person? Because the bible says he did the various miracles right? So it's ok Jesus did miracles in the bible because he wasn't a normal person and we know he wasn't a normal person because the bible says so and has him doing miracles... Google "circular reasoning" sometime because you do it in spades.
MystryBox 2 years ago
Excellent! I say, regardless of what you believe, nobody is disappointed in death.
CodyCEngdahl 2 years ago
I dunno... it might be anti-climatic for some.
MystryBox 2 years ago
MysteryBox,
You said exactly what I could only hope to say perfectly
Faith is a curse is a perfect way to put it. I'm fascinated with trying to understand how people can still cling to such beliefs, look you straight in the eye and with all seriousness tell you that yes Mohammad did in fact fly into the clouds on Pegasus or that yes there really was a talking snake in the garden of Eden and it tricked Eve into eating a fruit. how does an adult say that and feel no contradiction with reality?
TheEarthAbides 2 years ago
They believe because their parents and peers believe. The real wonder is how the first group of people start to believe... but then people were a lot more ignorant hundreds to thousands of years ago and maybe that's not a surprise.
MystryBox 2 years ago
yea true too, but there is still something that i can't resolve which is this: If your parents and peers believe that the earth is 6000 years old and you have been educated properly how do you actively chose to ignore the facts for obvious nonsense. Why isn't education as effective as it should be at saving someone from dogmatic thinking?
TheEarthAbides 2 years ago
Its so hard to grasp, I was brought up being told that religion was mythological, in other words my parents are atheists. As I matured I was introduced to people who believed that these myths were true, and I kept asking why, they would bring up the word faith, and I took it as a valid argument. Now that you have explained what faith really is, I am confused as to how these people are so delusional. Its mind boggling and sort of makes me mad.
conman2317 2 years ago
Is there an explanation as to why these people are so delusional, and proud of it?? How can one openly admit thinking talking snakes, zombies, turning water into wine, walking on water, etc are scientifically true?? I never get an answer from them, they just keep trying to tell me about how wonderful God is and I need to be saved among other none sense.
conman2317 2 years ago
I can't handle it, I'm going to explode in fits of anger and end my life or something, this is so ridiculous, I want to rid of all these idiots!!! they're driving me insane.
conman2317 2 years ago
Being a troll is fun huh?
MystryBox 2 years ago
yes because I intend to be one apparently.
conman2317 2 years ago
Either that or you really are an agnostic who explodes in fits of suicidal anger over the irrationality of theists. And if that's the case you should be talking to mental health professionals rather than me.
MystryBox 2 years ago
Well enough.
Primoxapien 2 years ago
man* (not mad)
Primoxapien 2 years ago
Well that's why I wanted you to adress my comment - wishful-thinking again on my part ;) . If faith breeds irrationality breeds conflict, than we should indeed rise above those things. But if irrationality seeks facet breeds conflict - well then I'll tell you what it's like. It's like saying the reason this mad murdered another is because he has a knife in his hand. It's insufficient.
Primoxapien 2 years ago
Sounds like you're more cynical than I am.
I'm pointing out a type of irrational thinking that I myself was able to recognize and rise above.
MystryBox 2 years ago
"Faith brings aspects of hell to the this world. It brings mysery and conflict. It's behind most of the wars in history. People are dying every day because of the nature of faith."
I want you to defend this comment. I contend people die every day because of the nature of humanity. Your argument appears: Faith -> irrationality -> conflict. Mine is, Irrationality -> Facet (perhaps "faith") -> conflict.
So defend these claims. Give me something concrete.
Primoxapien 2 years ago
You're asking me to defend what is obvious. As the video says faith doesn't lend itself to rational conflict resolution. There are religious wars going on that have been going on for generations. It's true humans are irrational in additional ways but that doesn't give faith a free pass. If you want further concrete evidence of what the video says just open any newspaper.
MystryBox 2 years ago
What is your point? That because humans are irrational in multiple ways (including faith) that we shouldn't point out these irrationalities where we see them and try to rise above them?
MystryBox 2 years ago
Well enough. But for the first part of my comment on the good fight against faith?
Primoxapien 2 years ago
I am attacking faith. The video gives some reasons why. What more do you want me to say?
MystryBox 2 years ago
Why pretend to fight the good fight against faith in the face of its atrocities on humankind? Its like saying we should send Blacks back to Africa because there are some who, historically, have grieved the justice system insufferably. Yes, thats true, but so is it true for the rest of humanity. Suffice to say, you are contrary to believers and want to be contentious. But so what? The intellectual climate is highly atheist; youre just another insignificant cog in the atheist machine.
Primoxapien 2 years ago
What's funny is you can't deny the simple logic of the video and so have nothing more than a rather laughable attack on me as a "cog". Just remember who it's not the atheists that meet together every week in millions of tax sheltered buildings across the country. So a better place to find a "cog" might be a mirror. Thanks for the comment.
MystryBox 2 years ago
Im saying if you can rationalize something then what would you need faith for? We need faith because it is impossible to rationalize God...If God could be rationalized he would not be God...You do know what i mean....and some of the stories you bring up you are taking out of context and you know it....I bet if we told those bible characters that there was a man that could pull an antire plane by himself they would think it was insane, but guess what its still true...so its possible for those too
coolio1022 3 years ago
Listen to yourself, you're not arguing for god, you're arguing for faith. Faith is belief without evidence--it's stupid, abused by all religions, invented by men to control other men, and if there were a god he wouldn't need it and would have nothing to do with it. You don't need faith, that's the point. That you need faith is a lie all religions teach people because they have no evidence. Why do you believe it?
MystryBox 3 years ago
We are ants, on an apple, sitting in a giant fridge. Why? No idea.
100 billion galaxies is a fact. Scary isn't it. Why ? No idea.
What I do know for a fact however is that good people do good things. Bad people do bad things but it takes for religion for good people do to bad things.
The human race is in dark dark days of evolution. For us to progress as a species, faith and religion has to go.
Have you read 'The God Part Of The Brain'?
You might enjoy it.
Secularly yours, Gav
MGAVBRACE 3 years ago
Agreed. I always found itodd that people instantly refute the church of the invisible spaghetti monster saying that is stupid, unrealistic, fairytail-like etc.. yet is it really that much different from christianity..? should the stories in the bible really easier to believe than saying that a giant inviible spaghetti monster created the earth? Nope.
bowzerowns 3 years ago
you said you cannot rationalize faith and i agree, but if we could rationalize faith then we could rationalize God, but if we could rationalize God then would he really be God? If God could be rationalized and everything he does then he would not be God, if he could be rationalized then that would mean we could put god in box and i do not believe that is possible...
coolio1022 3 years ago
What does that even mean? Just because something might be objectively known to exist that doesn't make it any less. If anything it makes it more significant... moving it from myth to reality.
MystryBox 3 years ago
Religion is a community for people, that many people welcome as a savior. Once in, its hard to leave because it creates a belonging (family) (same for most other communities) The destructive power of religion lies in that you have to let go of your reason, otherwise you're out, & in many cases the religion bonds with other ones like family or school/work. Its sad that religion has such large impact on wars and hate, but if you can get out without a big personal loss, the world would be grateful.
bigtopofun 3 years ago
I get the whole "religion as a community/social thing" but the strange requirement that everyone believes something highly unlikely is what gets me. I don't understand why and how people do it and do it so easily.
MystryBox 3 years ago
Yes, I see your point. Its difficult to understand this "stupidity". My point is that people basicly buy this concept because of personal gain, the religious community is well funded with lots of "news" and events. You might get in there because of this, just as you would choose to join a well maintained school club or any other hobby.
bigtopofun 3 years ago
I believe that the brainwashing thing starts after this, people joins this community for other reasons than belief and faith but after awhile you start to confuse the good feelin of "belonging and family" and most of all appriciation (does it spell that way? sorry im from sweden) from your "friends" with this made up evidence "I feel jesus in me" and so on..
bigtopofun 3 years ago
I really really would like to see a world without religion. But you really cant expect some people with religion as their supporting pillar in life to part with it without giving them proof that god does not exist. Religion is like a blanket in a cold cellar, you rather stick with it in the dark than going up and out finding its actually summer. Sadly, not everyone is capable of this.
bigtopofun 3 years ago
by the way.
I really like your videos adn overall attitude, and im grateful for your response.
Best regards
Bigtop
bigtopofun 3 years ago
Thanks for the comments and best to you.
MystryBox 3 years ago
you make a point but i dont think u should bring religion into youtube. and seriously, there isnt dragons and unicorns in the bible. but i know that everytime i miss out on an oppurtunity for almost anything, its for a reason and that reason is always a good one. i seriously doubt thats karma and im christian i pray every day multiple times and the majority of the time, it comes true. I think u should reconsider christianity. Just start praying for one day, thats all im asking of u pray a to god
purhulk 3 years ago
You're obviously still a kid. When you get older you might think differently.
MystryBox 3 years ago
i may be a child, but only because you are what 50? You have buck teeth and look like a gerbil. Its no surprise you have never found a woman stupid enough to even consider you.
purhulk 3 years ago
Thanks for the comments. First time I've been told I look like a gerbil, heh.
MystryBox 3 years ago
When one has no valid point to make, they resort to despicable personal insults.
lemonfreshman 3 years ago
Faith is believing in something when there is no evidence for it, or there is evidence against it. ComedyJesus has made short videos about the "Strongest belief in God contest":
/watch?v=ohJgoa_rY14
/watch?v=s5MMX-ZWQm8
/watch?v=T2Bt6VPZ1PY
WarmWeatherGuy 3 years ago
Well said.
But the devout believers will just ratioalize by telling themselve you've been deceived by satan or have failed to receive the holy spirit. In other words, to be a believer, irrationality and a gut feeling are a requirement.
destronia123 3 years ago
Also, you have based your own belief's on faith itself. If not, and you want myself and others who have faith in God, then instead of being subject (like the entire video), how about some OBJECTIVE facts or truths rather to better support your cause, video..whatever.
tnt708 3 years ago
I'm not the one making extraordinary claims about gods existing. If you want objective facts you should be asking them from those making the claims. All I'm doing is pointing out the fact that those that make such claims do not support them.
MystryBox 3 years ago
Okay, however, since I have faith in God or as you put it "Wishful Thinking," and you were to try to convince me otherwise...I am asking for some objective facts that support what you're saying regarding God not existing.
tnt708 3 years ago
I don't claim god doesn't exist--I don't know if gods exist or not. I just don't see any good evidence they exist. Given the lack of evidence for an extraordinary claim the rational position to take is doubt. If you want to believe anyway, go ahead.
Note that specific claims can be largely dismissed. I give several examples in the video... the sun stopping in the sky for instance. Such a thing is highly unlikely and really can't be believed by reasonable people on a mere claim in a book.
MystryBox 3 years ago
That is the sad thing, you have no faith. Faith is not a curse; were you alive when "Muhammad rode a winged horse into heaven?" you never know.. until their is physical proof disproving religion, both sides have no argument.
pantherspride22 2 years ago
Sorry but I don't need to have been there to know it is highly unlikely anyone rode a winged horse and it is more likely such a story is legend. We have millions of examples of such legendary stories and zero evidence of winged horses. So the most likely and rational conclusion is the story is legend not history. This is called how to think rationally and critically--look into it sometime.
MystryBox 2 years ago
Anyone that makes an extraordinary claim that goes against what we all commonly observe (like a winged horse) they need to provide good evidence for the claim if they expect anyone to believe. As there is no good evidence and as a rational, responsible adult, I don't believe such claims.
MystryBox 2 years ago
I have a video called "The Best Argument for Atheism" that is another response to your question.
MystryBox 3 years ago
Could you specify where in The Bible it talks of angels having sex with human women, since angels are characterized in The Bible as anatomicaly inadimant
tnt708 3 years ago
See the first few verses of Genesis 6. Also google "Nephilim." Note that Christians don't agree among themselves on what those verses mean (nor of much of anything really).
MystryBox 3 years ago
You got pwned.
DragonXEnterprise 3 years ago
awesome
keep em coming
4zion4life 3 years ago
Valid points. However, you make statements concerning "virtue" and that our species "needs to grow up". Unfortunately though, without a viable and greater meaning behind morality, everything is Nihilistic. There is no morality. There is no real right or wrong. Morality is just something that developed when these weird multicellular symbiont beings developed things called "pack preservation" and "self preservation". Its an adaptation our minds are stuck in. Rape, murder, etc. is all relative.
touchmywhisker 3 years ago
Sorry but the lack of a supernaturally created purpose does not equal no purpose. Believe it or not non-religious people and cultures still find plenty of meaning and purpose in life. Similarly morality is not dependent on some external supernatural being (see my video "Source of Morality" for further on my opinion on that).
MystryBox 3 years ago
You presume I was arguing a supernaturally created Earth and a supernatural being. I'm not. I'm arguing there being any concrete meaning in general behind anything. All is relative, including morality, which is an adaptation. It's the same things as a leaf's waxy coating. It is a genetic mutation with the propagation of a species as it's driving force. As long as what i do preserves me and doesn't allow my stance in the "pack" to diminish at all, what i do is moral. Theres no reason beyond that.
touchmywhisker 3 years ago
Just because meaning is relative doesn't mean there is no meaning.
MystryBox 3 years ago
Trust me, you didn't leave christianity. U think u did. But that's not what u left.
YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!
PhantomKode 3 years ago
I was thinking the same thing!
omnusra 3 years ago
ur my hero. i didnt think there was anyone who believed EXACTLY the same way i did logically and based on solid scientific fact. it sux when u realize u have surpassed ur parents mentally because they c through this so called "Jesus Blind" thing. the worst thing is that u cant convince them that ur right even when there is true scientific fact to prove it.
masonhartman 3 years ago
Thanks for the video. Simple candidness is nice. I think a lot of theists think all atheists are just "mad" about the world, and have "rejected" God. But you are proof that that is simply not true.
WhatsTheDiff101 3 years ago
Great video.
Feldmm1 3 years ago
MystryBox,
I am curious: In the video where you explained what you believe you said that you don't believe in any gods, because you haven't seen any good "reasons to believe" in any gods. But then, in this video you describe the nature of faith as lacking any good reason by definition. Please explain to me why this is consistent.
Actually, as you define it in this video, I would also see faith as a vice. But, I do not think I define faith as you do. One should have "reasons to believe."
NomosCharis 3 years ago
I don't have a problem with personal belief in god... what might be called deism. I recognize god cannot be disproven. However this is quite distinct from faith in revealed religions. There you have a surety of faith that goes well beyond belief there is something "out there" but rather a claim of precise knowledge of what that god is and what he wants to the point where you're willing to infringe on the rights of others because of it (e.g. kill them, force them to believe, etc).
MystryBox 3 years ago
So then, are you in this video only talking about a certain kind of faith, and not about the nature of faith in general?
NomosCharis 3 years ago
I am mostly talking about very obviously unreasonable or dangerous faith. I think faith in general is also a bad idea but I don't have a problem with faith that is largely tempered by observed reality.
MystryBox 3 years ago
Would you then consider a generally deistic or theistic belief in God "faith," and therefore, "in general... a bad idea?"
If so, please explain.
NomosCharis 3 years ago
As I already implied a few posts up, I don't think deistic faith is a bad idea. I was a deist myself for a while. I consider deism direct faith in god and not particularly unreasonable or dangerous. However *revealed religions* (like Christianity, etc.) are faith in men/prophets and those are unreasonable and dangerous (for all the reasons I detail in my videos).
MystryBox 3 years ago
As a christian I believe there is plenty of good reasons to believe God does exist.
Yes in the end you do need faith but faith is required in science as well on how we got here.
I recomend a video called "science-where does the evidence point"with William lane Craig.
Atheist regimes have also killed and forced people not to believe but I'm not going to use that argument because its PATHETIC (by the way atheist regimes killed fare more than religion).
bluevaines 3 years ago
I really like how you say you're not going to use an argument and then you use it. I'll have to try that.
MystryBox 3 years ago
better to think positively than negatively right? i mean, what do u have to lose? u might as well believe in it.
lpjoe00 3 years ago
And of all the various religions and beliefs, which one should I decide to believe based on such logic? You yourself reject thousands of religious beliefs... shouldn't you believe them just to be safe?
MystryBox 3 years ago
thts true, good point. u always have something to say to back urself up . lol
xxkrpticxx 3 years ago
so i really do respect u as a guy trying to make a statement about what u think about religion. ur actually starting to get me to think about what people are actually wanting me to believe as to what i actually do believe. ur probably my most respected guy on youtube because u actually went thru what im going thru now. which is believing in christianity but now starting to believe that some things are not really believable. so im going to look into christianity and see what i come up with.
lpjoe00 3 years ago