Iam not an expert..but think, that these kind of turbineconcepts are superior - not because the efficence is higher .. but it can be installed on a normal roof. But the wind collector could be much bigger
I don't understand this. What do the disks do exactly? They expand or contract and that somehow allows the turbine to spin in slower wind speeds but still take advantage of high wind speeds?
i think we really need to see the voltage & watts/amps output at the different rpms. i think it's great that it can start at a very low wind volocity, it is important in heavy urban areas.
if you can give me more DATA there can be a huge market in my city.
I'm not a wind energy engineer, but, setting up a household fan doesn't strike me as being a very scientifically controlled experiment.
And as others have said, I don't see the significance of RPMs. A tiny little toy pinwheel can produce high RPMs, but that's meaningless for generating electricity.
A portion of the wind energy is converted into rotational kinetic energy. To calculate the rotational kinetic energy you need only two things: the angular velocity (derived from the RPMs) and the body's moment of inertia (based on the mass and shape of the rotating body).
The conversion of that rotational kinetic energy into electricity is a different story. Finding the appropriate generator that works efficiently at low RPMs and over a wide range of RPMs it's a real challenge.
@horianica I think you are getting confused between energy and power. there is a big difference. if you convert your kinetic energy into electricity your turbine will stop. RPM or more accurately rad/second * torque will give you power.
@NZhouldhavewon The most important element is to efficiently convert wind power energy into kinetic energy of the rotor. That's what Betz Law it's all about. Check Betz demonstration and see if there's anywhere anything about power. As I mentioned in previous replies, converting that kinetic energy efficiently into electricity is another story. Power, electrical power, is required at the demand moment. Keeping separate the supply and the demand will prevent the rotor to slowdown.
@NZhouldhavewon The most important element is to efficiently convert wind power energy into kinetic energy of the rotor. That's what Betz Law it's all about. Check Betz demonstration and see if there's anywhere anything about power or torque. As I mentioned in previous replies, converting that kinetic energy efficiently into electricity is another story. Power, electrical power, is required at the demand moment. Keeping separate the supply and the demand will prevent the rotor to slowdown.
Can you tell me if your unit uses magnets to keep any vibration from impacting architecture.?
Can you let me know how to buy and put this kind of unit to use on a low income houseing unit?
My vision is that anyone can own their own system and be able to move it as the need arises so that if someone moves to another home they can take their unit with them and continue to live without being dependent on utility companies. Thank you for your work!
I see the starting speeds...very nice. They are low. But is this open circuit voltage? If it's open circuit then the low start up speed is less meaningful; you just have good bearings. If there are loads on the turbine while it achieves this low start up, are those loads static or dynamic?
I'm going to come straight out instead of guessing and ask, what's the downside. Everything has a downside, so what's this? low yeild, materials, maintainance, tend to be common ones. I'd like to know exactly what the pros and cons are before I would go out get one
There is lots of money for engineers to jump on the propeller design bandwagon, downplaying all else that has a chance. Common sense questions: How much wind blowing through that swept area can really push those 3 thin blades? If the rotor is spinning 7 or 8 times faster than the wind, does friction waste much energy? What if opposing winds at different altitudes blow through one huge turbine? Should we try other ideas on a large scale than eggbeaters and the wind shield wipers of the sky?
What would that reason be? Perhaps its because they are very good at generating government subsidies since the public can be easily convinced that they are an advanced modern version of the old wooden windmill.
Yes by using words and phrases such as: paradigm shifting revolutionary out of the box thinking win wind synergistic awesomeness that defies the Betz limit, this ant your grandpa's wind turbine, you can just skip by all of that pesky third party data / power curve verification and jump right into selling products that don't really work.
@SmallWindGuy hah... right... because the current designs are as good as it is ever going to get...
btw ... Taiwan built some...
Fuck utility scale generation anyway, wide-implementation, small-scale is the solution... oh but thats a problem. It will take the control of power out of the government, and large energy corporations.
I am actually in the small wind business, but I realize that our economies of scale and our installed cost vs. energy production is nowhere near that of the utility scale monsters. We need it all: small, medium, and large. NREL has done extensive testing on vertical axis machines. Several companies in the US used to manufacture them. Why do you think they went out of business? We will continue to see incremental improvements with technology that is economically competitive in the market.
@SmallWindGuy - and I respond... which is subsidized more heavily? large or small scale power generation?
You are speaking like we have a free market in this country. We don't. We are at the behest of bankers who exploit fractional-reserve banking to flush money at what they want.
I wonder if you could install smaller generators on the top of telephone poles and feed the grid that way... that might be a way to get some gov't subsidies.
But damn. Subsidies squash out all small businesses.
@ParapaDrifter Disagree. We have a sizable 30 % federal income tax credit for for smaller scale turbines (100kW and less). But the larger machines produce power for a hell of a lot less money... example, a North Wind 100kW machine installs for around 400 - 500k.... you can install a 1.5 MW GE for around 1.5 Million... Think about those numbers! 4 - 5K / kW vs. 1k / kW installed. Small scale competes with retail electric rates (behind the meter) while large compete with wholesale rates.
I'm not convinced. A darris is preferred because with lift, it can exceed wind speed, but it is also known for it's difficulty getting started. The tesla turbine cannot exceed wnd speed. Its advantage is durability at rpm's that would desroy other turbines, which is unlikely with outdoor wind. I would be more inclined to believe if the comparison were done side by side in a wind tunnel with a larger range of wind speed and the power output of both turbines where shown.
agreed. It's also not too difficult or expensive to have a darrieus outfitted with an anemometer and power electronics so that the machine can just motor itself up for cut in. And it's way better than putting a savonius in the middle that will just get dragged along for the ride once the machine takes off...
Actually the flywheel is the rotor itself. Yes the two "flywheels" are different, the rotor with the disks is 3 times heavier than the rotor without disks, yet it turns faster. The comparison in terms of kinetic energies is even more drastic than the comparison just by RPMs.
It's actually more simple to produce and assemble a Tesnic turbine. By its design is structurally more solid so we can use less expensive materials. We aim to introduce this to the market at a price point around $4 per Watt installed.
Hmmm nice price...unfortunatly you can buy solar panels with price 3-5 euro /watt (for example Kaneka 60W panels) and solar energy is the most expensive energy!!!!!
that mean this power turbine is very expensive!!!!
I'd agree and say that "torque" is a more meaningful comparison. Tesla turbines are not in common use because they generated high RPMs but low torque as compared to normal steam turbines. The notable lack of energy output comparison on Tesnic's site is telling. A scientific comparison head-to-head with a generator load against other blade configurations is the only way this will be validated, at least to someone who is serious about learning if this is a good technology.
The rpm by itself is not too meaningful without knowing what kind of torque is available. The darrieus can be going half the rpm, but if it has 3 times the torque it is the more efficient turbine.
My guess is this is a freshman in engineering college. This test displays the efficiency of a twisted fanblade, not a turbine. A turbine harnesses wind, this thing rotates freely under no load. The comparison chart displays nothing meaningful, but Tesnic does not even realize this, lol. No load test has no value, at all, in displaying efficiency of a turbine, nor does it indicate the turbine start speed while loaded. I an in high school and even I know Tesnic has no clue.
Take somebody elses invention and change it little and then you make it your own and charge up the yahoo? Nope, I don't think so. And your test is useless! Who cares when it starts up - it needs to be efficient when the wind blows, so that an efficient power generation is possible. Where did you demonstrate that in your test? No where!
are you missing the point or what? the fan is there to demonstrate the turbine, it would never be the intention to use fans to drive turbines.... they are for outside use, you know... wind?
What I mean to say is that, what wind speeds are being delivered by the fan on the blades? I'd have thought that the wind speeds are in excess of 10 m/s and as such are untypical of the wind resource to be found in normal locations (i.e. 6m/s or thereabouts
Fair point, I can't say I would know what the wind speed of a fan is. I don't know if you've seen their video but they have a video of the tesnic in a wind tunnel - it would be interesting to see what speed that was at too.
I continue to like the idea of tesla turbines though, they just *seem* like they should be more efficient.
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TheServiceWeb 1 month ago
Iam not an expert..but think, that these kind of turbineconcepts are superior - not because the efficence is higher .. but it can be installed on a normal roof. But the wind collector could be much bigger
Dubconferencedotorg 2 months ago
I don't understand this. What do the disks do exactly? They expand or contract and that somehow allows the turbine to spin in slower wind speeds but still take advantage of high wind speeds?
enticed2zeitgeist 9 months ago
I'd love to see some exact figures regarding preformance
zoebiflap 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Wieviel kostet denn So ein Gerät?
kruegi001 1 year ago
Can your turbine light up a 100 watt bulb at winds of say..20mph?
torkjoy1 1 year ago
i think we really need to see the voltage & watts/amps output at the different rpms. i think it's great that it can start at a very low wind volocity, it is important in heavy urban areas.
if you can give me more DATA there can be a huge market in my city.
eyeballsnot 1 year ago
I'm not a wind energy engineer, but, setting up a household fan doesn't strike me as being a very scientifically controlled experiment.
And as others have said, I don't see the significance of RPMs. A tiny little toy pinwheel can produce high RPMs, but that's meaningless for generating electricity.
DonTruman 1 year ago
A portion of the wind energy is converted into rotational kinetic energy. To calculate the rotational kinetic energy you need only two things: the angular velocity (derived from the RPMs) and the body's moment of inertia (based on the mass and shape of the rotating body).
The conversion of that rotational kinetic energy into electricity is a different story. Finding the appropriate generator that works efficiently at low RPMs and over a wide range of RPMs it's a real challenge.
horianica 1 year ago
@horianica I think you are getting confused between energy and power. there is a big difference. if you convert your kinetic energy into electricity your turbine will stop. RPM or more accurately rad/second * torque will give you power.
NZhouldhavewon 1 year ago
@NZhouldhavewon The most important element is to efficiently convert wind power energy into kinetic energy of the rotor. That's what Betz Law it's all about. Check Betz demonstration and see if there's anywhere anything about power. As I mentioned in previous replies, converting that kinetic energy efficiently into electricity is another story. Power, electrical power, is required at the demand moment. Keeping separate the supply and the demand will prevent the rotor to slowdown.
horianica 1 year ago
@NZhouldhavewon The most important element is to efficiently convert wind power energy into kinetic energy of the rotor. That's what Betz Law it's all about. Check Betz demonstration and see if there's anywhere anything about power or torque. As I mentioned in previous replies, converting that kinetic energy efficiently into electricity is another story. Power, electrical power, is required at the demand moment. Keeping separate the supply and the demand will prevent the rotor to slowdown.
horianica 1 year ago
Is this product out at the market now? :)
Jasminewynja 1 year ago
Can you tell me if your unit uses magnets to keep any vibration from impacting architecture.?
Can you let me know how to buy and put this kind of unit to use on a low income houseing unit?
My vision is that anyone can own their own system and be able to move it as the need arises so that if someone moves to another home they can take their unit with them and continue to live without being dependent on utility companies. Thank you for your work!
laurasIs2c 1 year ago
guys!..i can belive any word u say!..but when u'll give some tech data and please also, tell me what u'll do in the winter under ice and snow??...
GRATZIANI2002 1 year ago
I see the starting speeds...very nice. They are low. But is this open circuit voltage? If it's open circuit then the low start up speed is less meaningful; you just have good bearings. If there are loads on the turbine while it achieves this low start up, are those loads static or dynamic?
bravokilo16 1 year ago
I'm going to come straight out instead of guessing and ask, what's the downside. Everything has a downside, so what's this? low yeild, materials, maintainance, tend to be common ones. I'd like to know exactly what the pros and cons are before I would go out get one
Vennificus 1 year ago
There is lots of money for engineers to jump on the propeller design bandwagon, downplaying all else that has a chance. Common sense questions: How much wind blowing through that swept area can really push those 3 thin blades? If the rotor is spinning 7 or 8 times faster than the wind, does friction waste much energy? What if opposing winds at different altitudes blow through one huge turbine? Should we try other ideas on a large scale than eggbeaters and the wind shield wipers of the sky?
Wesnex1 2 years ago
What would that reason be? Perhaps its because they are very good at generating government subsidies since the public can be easily convinced that they are an advanced modern version of the old wooden windmill.
Wesnex1 2 years ago
Yes by using words and phrases such as: paradigm shifting revolutionary out of the box thinking win wind synergistic awesomeness that defies the Betz limit, this ant your grandpa's wind turbine, you can just skip by all of that pesky third party data / power curve verification and jump right into selling products that don't really work.
SmallWindGuy 2 years ago
VAWTs are Dumb... There is a reason you don't see any utility scale vertical axis machines.
SmallWindGuy 2 years ago
@SmallWindGuy hah... right... because the current designs are as good as it is ever going to get...
btw ... Taiwan built some...
Fuck utility scale generation anyway, wide-implementation, small-scale is the solution... oh but thats a problem. It will take the control of power out of the government, and large energy corporations.
ParapaDrifter 1 year ago
I am actually in the small wind business, but I realize that our economies of scale and our installed cost vs. energy production is nowhere near that of the utility scale monsters. We need it all: small, medium, and large. NREL has done extensive testing on vertical axis machines. Several companies in the US used to manufacture them. Why do you think they went out of business? We will continue to see incremental improvements with technology that is economically competitive in the market.
SmallWindGuy 1 year ago
@SmallWindGuy - and I respond... which is subsidized more heavily? large or small scale power generation?
You are speaking like we have a free market in this country. We don't. We are at the behest of bankers who exploit fractional-reserve banking to flush money at what they want.
I wonder if you could install smaller generators on the top of telephone poles and feed the grid that way... that might be a way to get some gov't subsidies.
But damn. Subsidies squash out all small businesses.
ParapaDrifter 1 year ago
@ParapaDrifter Disagree. We have a sizable 30 % federal income tax credit for for smaller scale turbines (100kW and less). But the larger machines produce power for a hell of a lot less money... example, a North Wind 100kW machine installs for around 400 - 500k.... you can install a 1.5 MW GE for around 1.5 Million... Think about those numbers! 4 - 5K / kW vs. 1k / kW installed. Small scale competes with retail electric rates (behind the meter) while large compete with wholesale rates.
SmallWindGuy 1 year ago
I'm not convinced. A darris is preferred because with lift, it can exceed wind speed, but it is also known for it's difficulty getting started. The tesla turbine cannot exceed wnd speed. Its advantage is durability at rpm's that would desroy other turbines, which is unlikely with outdoor wind. I would be more inclined to believe if the comparison were done side by side in a wind tunnel with a larger range of wind speed and the power output of both turbines where shown.
Wesnex1 2 years ago
agreed. It's also not too difficult or expensive to have a darrieus outfitted with an anemometer and power electronics so that the machine can just motor itself up for cut in. And it's way better than putting a savonius in the middle that will just get dragged along for the ride once the machine takes off...
SmallWindGuy 1 year ago
Dear Mr. Nica,
it is a great construction! Do you have got also an electric generator coupled to the turbine or is it just running idle?
What if your tesla disks get dirty because of pollen. The Efficiency would drop. Do you have a concept how to avoid this?
IncredibleNishi 2 years ago
Tesla effect adds to squirrel cage turbines. Sweet! Plus you can put a solar panel on top!
riftalope 2 years ago
I think RPM does not correlate to power output.
I would like to see mechanical power or electrical power load testing results.
definitionofis 2 years ago
The RPM is a function of the kinetic energy extracted from the wind and transferred to the rotor (flywheel).
horianica 2 years ago
Comment removed
definitionofis 2 years ago
If the flywheel weights are different then the
RPM is not comparable. That is why I would like to see generator electrical data instead of RPM data.
However, I agree that RPM correlates to power
as long as we are not using two different flywheels.
definitionofis 2 years ago
Actually the flywheel is the rotor itself. Yes the two "flywheels" are different, the rotor with the disks is 3 times heavier than the rotor without disks, yet it turns faster. The comparison in terms of kinetic energies is even more drastic than the comparison just by RPMs.
horianica 2 years ago
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That's truly amazing! I slashed my electric bill in half! look here: solar.xfollow.me (Copy to your browser's address bar)
gdolim8 2 years ago
wow Vawts these days are getting better and better thanks for posting
DeanC993 3 years ago 3
It might be better performing than a darrieus ... but it is also 5 times more complex, and will therefore 5 times more expensive ...
powerbuoy 3 years ago
It's actually more simple to produce and assemble a Tesnic turbine. By its design is structurally more solid so we can use less expensive materials. We aim to introduce this to the market at a price point around $4 per Watt installed.
horianica 3 years ago
would you like to do business in the UK?
I'd be interested in promoting this over here.
ejbh3160 2 years ago
Hmmm nice price...unfortunatly you can buy solar panels with price 3-5 euro /watt (for example Kaneka 60W panels) and solar energy is the most expensive energy!!!!!
that mean this power turbine is very expensive!!!!
SylwerDragon 2 years ago
My Darrieus works much better then what they say here. ;)
Mutske161 3 years ago
How much does it cost 1 kVt energy (please in dollars)
Yaaroslav 3 years ago
Not commercial yet
horianica 3 years ago
I mean: self-cost. I mean: I m not getting to by this prototype but im interesting: How much it would be cost for kWt if it will be in production?
Sertainly than more you will produce - than less it will be costed for you. Im interesting of economic potention of this invention.
Yaaroslav 3 years ago
I'd agree and say that "torque" is a more meaningful comparison. Tesla turbines are not in common use because they generated high RPMs but low torque as compared to normal steam turbines. The notable lack of energy output comparison on Tesnic's site is telling. A scientific comparison head-to-head with a generator load against other blade configurations is the only way this will be validated, at least to someone who is serious about learning if this is a good technology.
johnhtodd 3 years ago 2
The rpm by itself is not too meaningful without knowing what kind of torque is available. The darrieus can be going half the rpm, but if it has 3 times the torque it is the more efficient turbine.
macrumpton 3 years ago 6
My guess is this is a freshman in engineering college. This test displays the efficiency of a twisted fanblade, not a turbine. A turbine harnesses wind, this thing rotates freely under no load. The comparison chart displays nothing meaningful, but Tesnic does not even realize this, lol. No load test has no value, at all, in displaying efficiency of a turbine, nor does it indicate the turbine start speed while loaded. I an in high school and even I know Tesnic has no clue.
GeneralKarl 3 years ago 2
Take somebody elses invention and change it little and then you make it your own and charge up the yahoo? Nope, I don't think so. And your test is useless! Who cares when it starts up - it needs to be efficient when the wind blows, so that an efficient power generation is possible. Where did you demonstrate that in your test? No where!
freddytuber 3 years ago
how about you check the web site or look at the other videos before saying anything.
narusasukakashi 3 years ago
thank you. i imagine much less enviro impact with your design. very nice.
kenpoka65 3 years ago
Yeah...but...the rating of hat fan must be 2/3 kW? What's the rating of he turbine?
tmckayuk 3 years ago
are you missing the point or what? the fan is there to demonstrate the turbine, it would never be the intention to use fans to drive turbines.... they are for outside use, you know... wind?
lazygenius123 3 years ago
What I mean to say is that, what wind speeds are being delivered by the fan on the blades? I'd have thought that the wind speeds are in excess of 10 m/s and as such are untypical of the wind resource to be found in normal locations (i.e. 6m/s or thereabouts
tmckayuk 3 years ago
Fair point, I can't say I would know what the wind speed of a fan is. I don't know if you've seen their video but they have a video of the tesnic in a wind tunnel - it would be interesting to see what speed that was at too.
I continue to like the idea of tesla turbines though, they just *seem* like they should be more efficient.
lazygenius123 3 years ago
I should have watched the video before posting that - it turns at 400rpm with a wind speed of 15.2 m/s!
I wonder if it turns at all at 5 or 6 m/s?
lazygenius123 3 years ago
very nice design. would love to see how it does when it's snowing and blowing
kratchouf 4 years ago
excelent!!!!!!
conspiranoise 4 years ago