Please visit my channel for the unpopular truth about homosexuality.
A person does not need hatred or any kind of phobia in order to acknowledge important differences between heterosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption and homosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption. Even non-religious people know this.
Homosexual activists, with support from the media, have succeeded at framing themselves as noble victims; it's an effective way to push a social agenda.
Feminists don't become feminists based on revelation or intuition. They base their beliefs on FACTS and EMOTION! You can prove anything by evidence and facts. Anything at all.
@pyr666 I've heard that one before. My argument about facts and evidence is the best you will ever hear. Anyone who can't or won't hear the truth uses facts and evidence.
@Calbenmike, Yes I will agree that evolutionary Biology has changed since Darwin.That's partly due to E O Wilson and other social -biologist that made discoveries in the 70's and 80's.That being said, we are talking about science, not religion. Religion was man's first attempt at science. Faulted as it was, it gave early man an understanding of their environment. It's 2011, 50 yrs from now our understanding of most of what we know will sufficiently change. Science is not set in stone.
Nothing new? And what does religion offer? How about nothing. It is nothing, it's an idea, that's all. Creationism.. talk about nothing new.You call what Hitchens has to say "drivel" because you are brainwashed, and you can't handle the truth.
@slippolives I can't handle the truth? You're the one who has a problem with truth which is why you believe the lie of athiesm. Hitchens spews nothing new in his faith that hasn't been tried before. He just hasn't had credible competition. I think of his sheer horror when he finally realizes that he was wrong his entire life and that his chance for redemption is lost forever should he die unrepentant.
Why? How? What sin, actually? If there would be an omnipotent creator, I'd merely be the way that creator wants me to be. So the one deserving of punishment would be that creator, not anybody else. Jesus can stuff it.
@potodd01 Plenty. Hitchens would get owned by Zacharias, Sproul, Hannegraaff, Lucado, and if he were alive today: Walter Martin. Hitchens drivel is nothing new.
@Calbenmike Is that why we have only one tube for both air and food so we are able to choke to death, an appendix that has no function (except to randomly burst and kill us), hips that are too narrow to give birth to young that are more developed and joints that wear away over time? I could go on. A human could design a better body, what are you flattering yourself with?
@Bumblybee256 Hips that are too narrow? are you kidding me? Do you even notice that women have hips so that they CAN give birth? Pain was greatly increased for women during childbirth due to man's sin. How about the ribcage being in place to protect the body's major organs? How about the unbelievable complexity of just one (let alone billions) human cell organism? How about the way a human is made in the womb? I could go on and on. What body do you think isn't an unbelievable creation?
@Calbenmike Lol erm, no. Women suffer discomfort during childbirth because our bodies need to strike a balance between walking bipedally and having live young. You'll notice human offspring our pretty damn helpless- that's because they could not be born any bigger.
Lol- where's the protection for your jugular vein? What about all the exposed abdominal organs? You clearly don't know enough about biology- complexity proves nothing, it's been shown to arise through evolution. No designer needed.
@Calbenmike Or that you have absolutely no idea what evolution by natural selection is. You ignoring my other points is further evidence to me of how out of your own depth you are.
@Bumblybee256 Your other points aren't really valid. Evolution is nothing more than a theory and a flawed one at that. The missing link that they will never find has scientists baffled. Anyone that can't see that there is a God that created everything just further proves the Bible's explanation of human depravity. You and the other athiests will learn the hard way should you die in your sins. You waste much time trying to prove God's non-existence when it is futile.
@Calbenmike Invalid because you don't like them? Do expand. A scientific theory in layman's terms is a fact. I expect you readily accept germ theory and the theory of gravitation. They have found plnety of 'missing links', your inability to keep up with scientific discoveries is your own responsibility. I don't have to prove a thing, that's your job and you fail. Continue benefitting from science while spitting in it's face and cherry picking from your precious book. More laughs for me.
@Calbenmike Scientific theories unite many individual facts into a singular concept. Evolution is comprised of quite a number of disparate facts which all help to explain the concept of gradual change via random mutation with environmental factors selecting for the fitness of organisms.
The term "missing link" is silly as evolution is a constant, gradual process. Every organism that has ever existed is itself a step in an evolutionary pathway. There is ALWAYS going to be a "missing link".
@rep300 Oh I understand perfectly. Evolutionists are always changing their theory to match their heavily flawed beliefs. Read the first sentence of Genesis and evolution goes right out the window. For evolution to make ONE CELL to work within itself is an impossibility. It's been proven already.
@Calbenmike You seem to be missing a basic understanding of science and human advancement. Is it beyond your understanding that with time, study, observation and hard work we can not learn anything new about the universe and all that is in it? If people like you ruled the world, would we still be believing the world is flat because that was our first primitive understanding? I'm afraid your argument is as deeply flawed as your beliefs.
@Calbenmike "Read the first sentence of Genesis and evolution goes right out the window". Read the scientologist back catalogue and your belief system goes out the window. What is your point? That we should just read books on mythology and superstition and believe them without any questioning, evidence or research? Oh wait, thats exactly what you mean. You are a religious nut farm.
@shortnfast "Religious nut farm" Religion is manmade. Christianity is not religion. I deal with reason and logic. What you believe in has a molecular CELL forming on it's own, repairing itself, and duplicating itself on it's own all by CHANCE. You believe that all living things came about by nothing. You believe that things evolve over time forming other things which nothing has disappeared in that time. I'm sorry, but you're the nut here. How does it feel to put faith in nonsense?
@Calbenmike Ah, but you yourself blindly believe that god came about from nothingness, with no mention as to what would have created god? Evolution works b/c it has plausability on it's side.Your magic space daddy b/s is just a convenient way to stop looking for real answers.If god did exist, it would be an atheist as well.It certainly wouldn't beleive in a higher power than itself, now would it? Just think about it... instead of praying for things to happen! Will you god fearers ever learn?
@V45Rider The only people that need to learn something are the evolutionists. God is eternal, he has no beginning. Everything originates from God. You and others that believe as you do have the real challenge that what you believe can be proven. Sorry for you it never has, not even close. The evolutionary theory is always changing to suit whatever the next alleged brilliant scientist finds next. Your faith is futile. You don't want to beleive in God because you don't want to change.
@Calbenmike Why do you keep referring to atheists' as having faith? Again, faith is nothing more than beleiving blindly in something b/c your intellect isn't developed enought to figure things out! Might as well just say, well, big 'ol g o d did it all! Of course, that's the EASY way out, which you obviously prefer.Look, just go back to scarfing down McFatty's, waste your life away in the name of god, and watch your "country under god" slowly go to waste... god won't stop your heart attack!lol
@Calbenmike Why do you keep referring to atheists' as having faith? Again, faith is nothing more than believing blindly in something b/c your intellect isn't developed enought to figure things out! Might as well just say, well, big 'ol g o d did it all! Of course, that's the EASY way out, which you obviously prefer.Look, just go back to scarfing down McFatty's, waste your life away in the name of god, and watch your "country under god" slowly go to waste... god won't stop your heart attack!lol
@Calbenmike So let me get this straight you claim to know all about god based on what evidence? Have you literally meet the guy and found out all of these claims that you made, like everything originates from god and that he is eternal. And say evolution is faith and that it keeps changing when that is what science kind of does changes as new information is found. Plus The theory of evolution is the most established of all the scientific theories out there with over 250,000 peer review journals.
@Calbenmike Ohh, puh leez, ma'am! Keep showing everyone that you're nothing more than a childish god fearer, still sucking your thumbs! Better watch what you say, btw, cuz you're going straight to HELL for being such an arrogant BITCH! And fuck you...
@Calbenmike If you can tell that god exists by looking at the human body or at the universe then god surely exists in logic such as 2+2=4 or even evolution or philosophy and in theories even those by atheists. That presents a bit of a problem doesn't it?
Faith can't be like a cross to a vampire where all you have to do is whip out your faith argument and all discussion falls silent due to the awsome power of YOUR faith. The same faith that a Muslim, Jew, Buddist, Animist or any other religion.
@1stormcat The problem with all of the other religions you mention is the fact that they are all false and don't provide forgiveness of sins. Only Christianity has that assurance. God has instilled in every human being the knowledge that God exists, "athiests" just deny the simple fact.
@Calbenmike then explain why the knowledge the God exists is not instilled in me. Only one explanation - it's not. And answer me this: if religion did not threaten eternal damnation along with existence in eternal paradise, would anyone adhere to it? We all know the answer to that...
@surreal99 The Bible says that no one seeks God. God draws men to him. Me telling you the truth is in fact God drawing you to him and the truth. The parameters of believing in Jesus Christ and what it would be if they didn't exist doesn't matter at all. The fact is, is that Jesus' gospel is truth and it is a choice every person must make. The knowledge of God does exist in you, you just choose to not believe it. The makeup of a human being, the universe, etc is all overwelming evidence.
@Calbenmike Consider other countries... there are people there who have never heard of Christianity/Catholicism/etc... So how can you say they have knowledge of "God" in them, yet alone say that they choose not to believe it?
Do you have any concept of formal logic? By saying the comment you have above, you are assuming that everyone has heard of "God" merely by saying that people make the choice not to believe it.
@inademv, It's more that the argument against religion is so easy to reason whereas religion is very difficult (impossible?) to defend due to a total lack of evidence for it. Most religious leaders are not actually used to reasoning because they don't have to. In the echo chamber of a church there is no argument. You write your sermon and your sheep obey.
If you look at the world under the assumption God is real, everything you see will be evidence of God. Just like if you look at the world under the assumption that your life is just a part of someone else's dream (or nightmare), everything you see will be evidence of that. Subjective experience should never be used to form fact (even if it is your own).
Proof, you say? Read Genesis: the story of Noah's arc. What is the essence of Christianity? Individual judgement before god. Why then,does god decide to punish mankind by killing off all vertebrates and non vertebrates (genesis 6:13). Why would you worship a being that doesn't do what you are told to do, in order for you to have your soul saved? If he is without fault or sin, how can he pass collective judgement (incl. non cerebral animals)? I'm ready for rebuttal...
(cont...) would be a waste of my time. I do not think that any amount of good reasoning will persuade you away from your deep convictions. If you like you may have the last word. I bid you farewell.
@goethethegreat cont.. So I don't need to list the actions I find immoral. Please now present the proof for god. So far you have argued for a universe that prefers a god and not offered the proof. Let's stop messing around. I want the proof. Not philosophical arguments which so far has been all we've discussed
@markgg1 I did not ask you to list G-Ds actions from the bible which you find immoral. I was asking what spacifically you cosider to be moral, in general. Are you serious? I have just finished explaining to you the difference in between "proof" and "reason". And you proceed to ask for "proof". Look, Mark I do not know you well but based on our limited conversation I get the impression of narrow mindedness and significantly limited intelligence. I think further communication with you (cont...)
@goethethegreat I dont see how this is important, but ok what I find moral: being goof to others, inclusing animals Being good to the planet. Being helpful, compassionate, tolerant, understanding. Non violent unless absolutely neccesary plus a lot more, but hope u get the point.
@goethethegreat ok I admit I do not understand the form of evidence you are using here? As far as I know using a philosophical argument or 'logic' is not a form of evidence, but a form of argument. You cannot argue the existance of something with mere words, u need evidence. If you say your evidence, are your words than your agument is circular and not impressive to me or anybody else.
To be honest, we can end if you want, but unless youve got your evidence, you have made no ground at all.
@jasonmiddleton47 where is the evidence then? There is none, so that means that it IS a fact that there is no evidence. And don't even say that the Bible is factual evidence, since men wrote it. Men also wrote the Qur'an and all other religious/mythical texts.
@TheKevturner That depends on your definition of evidence. If you're left-brained, evidence is scientific facts, and only facts. If you're right-brained, it's intuition and revelation. Both are personal forms of evidence because we're all different.
@334286 I wish this were true, but ask a feminist why she thinks men and women are the same and you'll hear a list of non-facts, intuition, revelation and moral exhortations. Ask an environmentalist why they think recycling is good and you'll get the same, devoid of any scientific facts.
The sooner you recognize that there are scientific-minded people on both sides the accurate your beliefs will be.
@334286 facts are not personal evidence, as they van be verified by others using the same methods. Intuition and revelation have merrit too, but until you can produce verifyable results with them, they remain non-facts and nothing more then personal ideas.
@PlanetJeroen I think that when science is viewed as simply our best effort to map out reality as a species, it is true to say that things like history, facts about a person's mood, and even true personal ideas are all a part of science whether or not we are in a position to quantify them scientifically right now.
@ryanp123456 History is written by the victor. So it's biased. A persons mood is the difference between what that person wants/expects from life and what is actualy there. So it only tells something about that persons internal map of reality. Personal ideas can lead to facts if it's intuition .. but other then that remain subjective, unless they are equal to a certain scientific theory in which case they are not really personal ideas I'd say ..
@PlanetJeroen I understand why you would bring these things up but, all I am trying to say is that all science is, is our best effort to understand reality, no more no less.
So if a person actually witnesses a UFO, and this person forms the belief that a UFO was where he saw it was at the time that he saw it., whether or not the scientific community at large ever accepts that this took place, the belief that was formed is actually science because it is the truest account of what took place.
@ryanp123456 You over simplify it .. science is the best explanation based on verifyable evidence and theorys that explain the behaviour of the subject based on laws. These theories can be used to predict outcomes and are falsifyabe .. the belief in a UFO is none of the above.
@PlanetJeroen You over complicate it. I equate true knowledge with science. Your definition works for describing most science, the way it is done today. My definition will continue to work as science grows in the future.
@ryanp123456 Your definition leaves out everything that makes is science .. maybe in the future we gain the technology to measure, detect and interpret currently unexplained phenomena, but we wont start relying on guess work based on intuïtion.
@PlanetJeroen It is based on maximizing the well being of conscious creatures. I'm willing to put the word science aside for the moment. Wouldn't you agree that a discussion about the well being of all the people involved would be worth having before, say some major military action? Would this discussion be better had among people being honest or people with their own biases? Assuming you've answer the way you are expected to why would a science of morality be anything but a good thing?
@ryanp123456 Well, you can aproach that with science as well .. see Sam Harris on morality for that. Yeah that would be a good thing, but seems a different point to me.
True knowledge based on ideas does not land probes on mars or send probes past the edge of our solar system. You need quantifyable results for that. The consiousness that preceeds thinking is a different thing again, and science can not reach there.
@PlanetJeroen I suppose we don't have a disagreement, all I want to advocate is the use of honest conversation and reason as a way to fill our the gaps in our knowledge. This is how each of us form our worldviews anyway. The only thing I guess we differ on is whether we are willing to put the label of science on this conversation.
@ryanp123456 i dont think its a question of are we willing to, but rather a question of should we, should we base our honest conversations off superstition, with no real basis in fact, or should we test our convictions using the same method that keeps us safe from things like polio and malaria? last time i checked there has never been a peer reviewed study showing that "god works miracles." i think that any worldview, however noble, that is based on a fairytale is, frankly, sophomoric at best
@markgg1 you can have LOGICAL PROOF... ie i can provide physical evidence that if I have have 1 apple and add another apple i will have 2 apples. I cannot provide physical evidence that if i have 1000000 apples and I add 1000000 apples I will have 2000000 apples, however I can prove that it would be the case with logical reasoning.
sadly religion fails to provide Either physical evidence or logical proof. believing in something which has neither of those 2 is the definition of faith.
Hitchens has been diagnosed with throt cancer, and is undergoing chemotherapy. Apparently it is in an early stage, so he has a good chance of long term survival.
The moral of the story is this: Drinking and smoking is bad for you.
the bible has all the answers and the big answer is JESUS the Christ who died and was raised from the dead ,proving the defeat of Death for mankind , now that's GOOD NEWS
@markgg1 yes i know its a shame the atheists have no evidence for their position , is like its a religion or something , as one must believe in ones position and without evidence its a belief in atheism with pure blind faith ,, where do you go to church ?
@valu777 Atheism is not really a 'position'. It has simply been given a name because it is in response to a large majority of people who hold a belief. Imagine if the whole world believed we lived in the matrix, and I didn't. Than just because the matrix view is popular I would need a label. In this world where
Noone believes the matrix idea I don't need the antimatrix label, even though in both worlds I hold the same position. Does that make sense?
Hopefully education systems across the globe will one day teach children that religion, myths and legends are context-specific phenomenon. You can't understand the origins of Christianity without understanding the Greco-Roman historical time frame. Once you do study this, you realize that Christianity is no different from all the other religions, it is influenced by past and at-the-time present conditions. Simply put: it's man-made.
@AR333 every child should be taught the bible first and then the other not as useful stuff should be taught second as we should first seek the kingdom of God
@valu777 No they don't, they need critical thinking skills. That's the difference between secularists and zealots. Secularists want a solid and well-rounded education, which includes religion classes but in the form of comparative mythology courses, which would actually give them historical and contextual information on any particular faith.
You would have them start with a dogmatic conclusion : JESUS CHRIST JESUS CHRIST man go grovel in a corner. That's not an education.
@AR333 Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
@valu777 No I didn't, not all from books, and either way, that's not something you can possibly assert. What will remain is that you, in the 21st century, decide to throw verses from the book of REVELATIONS, and expect to be taken seriously?
I maintain my previous point: anybody who has any respect for intellectually honesty will look at that comment of yours with pity.
@valu777 Of course people should learn about the bible. It is a ancient piece of literature that has probably the biggest effect on human history than anything else.
I hope this is wha you mean. If you want to use the bible as a moral code, I would ask you kindly to actually read it from beginning to end, than get back to me on that one.
Don't you try and straw man what I said. I didn't say "throw it out". Now you're just being snaky.
You said "teach it first" and "kingdom of god". I said the bible has its place in history, which you seem to deny because you see it as a revelation. Are you that desperate for the last word?
You killed your credibility back when you decided to bible verse me.
@AR333 my we are touchy aren't we . the bible is the most peer reviewed group of documents the world has ever seen and will ever see , its credibility is accepted by more peers than any scientific document ever written , the bible is Gods manual for man . it foretells the future and explains the past , it has tips for living for the now , over all it is a great masterpiece , one should study it to be truly educated
@valu777.the divine is well over mr hitchens or religions.we can t describe it.we don t know what it is,yet, it s right here...you hear it in the ocean roar,you see it as the sun or the moon rise.you feel it in a nice breeze,on a summer afternoon.things has been set into motions but it doesn t mean we re being watched.we simply don t know the mystery of this immense universe and how it all started or will end.we re so scared of the unknown but we re part of it.don t be scared and enjoy this life
@valu777.no one knows.but my own belief is there could well be something else after death.still the greatest unanswered question pops to mind:is there life after death?religions and the scientific world have given us no proof and are trying,in their own ways, to prove each other wrong.i d say you and i will only find out when we die.it would take great arrogance and ignorance to pretend knowing
@bavwill 2Pe 3:3 First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 2Pe 3:4 They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation."
I think you find that if you dig deep enough you will probably find that Mr Hitchens is actually a Satanist who is disguising himelf as an Atheist and Mr Dawkins is probably in the same camp. If a Satanist could be either of these two men they would jump at the chance because they know that they would be furthering the cause of Satan which is what they are all about.
Its talk like this is why religion disturbs me. I have read the bible and infact the only thing satam actually did was rebel against god... the church has given him fantastically bad P.R.
Its god who sends people to hell, not satan. Also if god is powerful, why doesnt he just kill satan?
Christianity is full of too many logical holes for anyone to take seriously, as well as backed by no evidence whatsoever.
@markgg1 I am not surprised that you are lost over the Satanic issue because most of your bretheran are entirely ignorant when it comes Satanism. But, alas, you have gotten ahead of yourself by not addressing the point which is IS IT SATANISM THAT IS MOTIVATING THESE GUYS LIKE Mr. Hitchens and Mr Dawkins.
@paulwilfridhunt Ok... where is your proof satan motivates Atheists?
Also, whats wrong with being an atheist? there is no evidence whatsoever that atheists are more likely to kill, rape be gay. Infact its the oppposite.
Also, if god onlu cares about me worshipping and not living a good moral life, than this guy does not deserve mine or your worship. If the god of the bible is true, he needs to come tp earth again as a man and this time be put in front of the International Criminal Court.
@markgg1 Ok for the moment I will assume that you do really want proof that satan can be the motivation behind some atheists. Satan's agenda is to oppose Christ. If he can have some of his followers disguised as atheists then he is well pleased because in doing so these so called atheists are thwarting God by claiming His non existence.
@markgg1 You don't believe in God because way deep down where you are not looking you don't want to believe in God. I know the reasons why you are the way you are but hey guess what, you don't know.
@paulwilfridhunt I used to believe in god. I think the turning point was actually reading the bible a bit, anf than thinking seriously about the stories like Noah's ark and Joseph and resurection.
And than I learnt about other religions with completely incomplatible claims
You believe because you WANT to believe and not because there is a good reason. This you have to admit to yourself.
@markgg1 You say that you once believed in God and that the turning point was reading the bible. This is what I say. I say that you got sucked into feeling important at the idea of God not existing because in so doing you felt more important than you did before. But you will disagree because you don't know a person called you. Disagree away.You will know the truth when you God judges you.
@paulwilfridhunt Fortunately for me, there is no reason to believe the bible, so im not worried about satan or god... as well as Allah, Poseidon, and Zeus...
cumon man, all these stories are just first age musings by people who hadd lots of time and didnt understand how the world works. Its 2010 now, and I just think theres no good excuse to believe this stuff... lets leave it in the past as an interesting part of our history. Thats all it is
@markgg1 Well isn't that just a big big boo boo when you say well shucks I see no reason to believe in the Bible. Obviously you have never read the book by the Jewish guy Dr Jeffrey Satinover called THE TRUTH BEHIND THE BIBLE CODES. Instead of trying to be a genius at debating why don't you change trades and become the worlds greatest detective by checking it out.
@paulwilfridhunt Im reading the bible and quran currently, but they are frankly hard to read. The narrative is poor. Ive read reason for god, and heard probably all the arguments of gods existance such as Cosmological, Teleological, source of morality. etc... Not a single one impresses me for one simple reason. They are all based on pure speculation and can apply to any religion. There are hundreds of contradictory religions, not all of them can be right.
@markgg1 I suppose it depends upon your heart attitude when you are reading the Bible. I guy whom I know well who was for 38 years a full blown atheist read the bible from cover to cover and in so doing became converted. But he was at a point in his life where he was really searching.
@paulwilfridhunt I read the bible with a completely open mind assumign nothing (this is how I appricah all things in life, and I urge others to also)
So far it has been like this: God made everything (no detail given). Than he decides to kill everyone in a flood. Noah and all the millions of animals fit on a small boat. God than decides to destroy two towns cause they are 'full of evil' (no detail given) angels visit lot in the town and tell him. A mob comes so lot offers his virgin daughter up
@markgg1 You don't seem to be a seeker of truth although you seem to indicate that you are. For all I know you could be just another satanist that is hell bent on destroying arguments in favour of God. Satan's gig it to paint God in a most unfavourable light which I see that you too are pretty good at doing, pathetic as it is.
@paulwilfridhunt yes that must be it... you know I have got a good point, so I must be satan.
Satan only needs to point people to the bible to make god look bad.
cumon man! its 2010. Leave this stuff in the past.
its fine to say, perhaps someone created the universe but we just dontk know who or how yet..
A court and science always assumes nothing until evidence comes in. We require this concept to function. This is how we get planes in the sky and recieve surgey. Evidence based knowledge
@markgg1 Isn't interesting how we choose to see things differently. You complain about the Flood and Sodom and Gomorah instead of actually fearing God. Obviously if God has done all this He can certainly squash you like an ant and kick your sorry butt into hell.In other words its entirely obvious that God is unbeatable but what do you do like a crazed loon. Say no more.
@paulwilfridhunt So you worship god because he is powerful and could squash me like an ant?
If god sends me to hell for a dose of skepticism, than god is not worthy of Mark's worship, or yours or anybody elses.
If you want to worship a tyrant, thats your business... but I respect decency, kindness, compassion, tolerance and love.. not bigotry, oppression and tyranny that is your god.
@markgg1 No I don't worship God because He is all powerful and could squash me as an ant. However I'm not such an idiot that says boo hoo God is a meanie therefore I am going to deliberately throw my life away in hell.What kind of crazyness is that.
@markgg1 Your attitude toward God is absurd. There you are like a little flea wagging your finger at God and saying naughty naughty. You have no idea of what God is nor do you want to know.You are such a pathetic bigot that you cannot see the love of God nor do you wanna see it.
@markgg1 I am now reasonably convinced that you are actually a satanist that is pretending to be an atheist.You have all the trappings of one. Satan himself declares that his expulsion from heaven was unfair and that God is unfair. He knows that his ultimate end will be one of extinction in hell and therefore in retaliation he takes as many suckers with him as possible.
@markgg1 In all rebellion there is power and it is not excluded from the rebellion towards God hence the reason for the appeal of such behaviour. You must have your way and in order to maintain your treachery towards your maker you must deny God's love and say ridiculous things like God is a tyrant. Satan is constantly trying to believe the impossible that he can defeat God. His hellish fate is set but is yours too.
@paulwilfridhunt ok,... according to your faith im going to hell, fair enough.
Considering Im your average guy. Never raped, or killed. Stolen the odd chocolate bar as a ki, and maybe told some mild lies... But I guess according to your faith, I deny Jesus as my lord due to the fact I dont believe he exists.
do I deserve infiniate suffering and pain for these crimes? Please be honest.
@markgg1 Yes in your present, spitting in the face of God, condition you are big time going to hell. God says hey look I don't wanna you to go to hell. I wanna you to go to heaven and live forever in true happiness and beauty.And all you gotta do is keep the 10 biggies which yes includes no raping or stealing but it also includes Loving God as outlined in the first commandment.You are not doing this and why.You are not a survivor. Its the only conclusion I can come to.
@markgg1 If you read the Scriptures carefully you will see that you don't actually fry in hell forever although every other Tom and Jerry will tell you otherwise. You actually perish in hell and I can prove this.No you don't deserve infinite pain and suffering and you won't be getting it but you will be getting some before your lights are put out.
@markgg1 There are many many people who are decent and noble but are going to end up in hell because they refuse to love God. The repenting thief who was not noble hanging on his cross goes to heaven because he repents of the life that he led. The reason for this life is to see if we qualify for everlasting life and without the love of God we fail that qualification.People amaze me how they with great detemination run for miles but have'nt got the guts to repent and love their maker.
@markgg1 If you end up in hell you are without excuse. You won't be able to say to God gee shucks I didn't really know that you existed. Because deep down you know that He does although you do such a good job of hiding this from yourself that you cannot see it. Your true sub concious position is one of defiance towards your maker and this is how you and everyone will eventually get to see it. My advice is to always face the truth now rather than later when its too late.
@markgg1 All of us that have come to Christ were to a leasser or greater degree like you. Turning to Christ is no easy business. In our efforts to be admired by others we can lead lives that God Himself doesn't admire us for. I now strive to lead a God pleasing life instead of the man pleasing life that I wore like a suit for 40 long years. The thought of not being admired by others or being considered foolish for following God stopped me in my tracks on that journey 40 times around the sun.
@paulwilfridhunt well thats ur faith... and i respect that, and i guess u hold them sincerely and your concern for me is why you talk to me so I appreciate that.
But the lack of evidence for these beliefs means I just cannot believe. There is no good evidence for anything magical or supernatural and god falls under this category.
I philosophical and moral arguments for me are more credible. Further weight to my rejection comes from the lack of a shred of physical evidence, plus the many faiths
@markgg1 Well I suppose it depends on what you want as evidence. If you want the big voice that booms out of the sky you are not going to get it. I didn't get it but I got faith. I reasoned that Christ sounded right and good and true. He was a great teacher with more than a few miracles including the ressurection and if I needed validation then this would be sufficient for me. I took a leap of faith into God via Jesus Christ and after doing so He gave me experiences thats prove God.
@markgg1 When you say that yopu are without evidence you are actually kidding yourself. I know this because I have a degree called I KNOW WHAT THE STORY IS ALL ABOUT WHEN IT COMES TO THE KIDDING OF THYSELF. You don't know this story because you don't have my degree, albeit that I am self taught but not by books.
@markgg1 The evidence which you reject and which is infinitely more profound than the booming voice from out of the sky, is nature itself. Are we to be forced to call you wise because you say that INDEED THIS DID NOT COME FROM GOD BUT FROM NO ONE.You choose to say that God didn't do it because it would have been too difficult for him to do so, therefore instead you latch onto the outer extremities of crazyness and actually with a straight face say it happened without God at all and all by itself
@paulwilfridhunt For me, to live life on faith is a mistake... I obviously believe we have one short existance, and we must make the most of it. I think the world is all there is, and the people in it. Thats why I think we should care for others, and the planet.. as well as try to understand reality through science, and not waste our lives on unfounded beliefs or ideas. For me radiowaves or light or cell biology is magical enough.. I dont need something beyond the universe to please me.
@markgg1 I think that when it comes to your most precious asset which happens to be your life you don't deny yourself from reading the wise words spoken by Jesus Christ the great teacher on the subject. However its a free country and you are perfectly welcome to listen to your own record thats stuck in a groove that sings your own song your own way but hey guys like me are not going to sing along with you, because with all due respect Jesus Christ knows more than you.
@markgg1 Yes we should have a caring attitiude towards others thats a true statement of yours but the 10 commandments, which you unwisely choose not to keep, tell us in the very first commandment to love God with all our heart and soul and mind. God actually doesn't need the love but when we neglect to do so we trangress against our own soul with a display of atrocious rudeness.
@paulwilfridhunt I will accept I could be wrong.. but I think the probability is so low it doesn't concern me.
I used to be vaguely religious as a child, so I have given it a go... why don't you accept that you may not be right, and there is a chance god doesn't exist.. so try not to be so sure of your beliefs, as there are many other religions with different explanations on how we woke up in the universe.
@markgg1 The problem is that you know there is a chance that you are wrong and it frustrates you to see my attitiude that displays my certainty that I am right. I know I am right but you hope you are right and as you have a bit of might on the side of your supposed right you tend to get some comfort form the axiom that might is right although it is as wrong as wrong can be. God does happen to reveal Himself to those that by faith jump off the Titanic onto the ship of life.
@markgg1 Yes God does understand you but no He is not going to let you off the hook for your great ability to ignore Him with fob offs Of WELL GOSH WE JUST DON'T KNOW DO WE particularly when you never really became a true seeker. He does say seek and you will find. You will find hell because you chose to not sincerely seek. Matt:7:13 Broad is the way that leadeth to destruction and MANY there be which go in thereat.
A GREAT THINKER that will be missed !
kevrs2 2 months ago
9:59 "wee lampoon"
BritishArrow 2 months ago
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BritishArrow 2 months ago
olasky was massacred in this debate
thescorpionking2020 3 months ago
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Please visit my channel for the unpopular truth about homosexuality.
A person does not need hatred or any kind of phobia in order to acknowledge important differences between heterosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption and homosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption. Even non-religious people know this.
Homosexual activists, with support from the media, have succeeded at framing themselves as noble victims; it's an effective way to push a social agenda.
lightandbeautiful 4 months ago
Feminists don't become feminists based on revelation or intuition. They base their beliefs on FACTS and EMOTION! You can prove anything by evidence and facts. Anything at all.
334286 9 months ago
@334286
"You can prove anything by evidence and facts. Anything at all."
you just shot your own argument in the foot.
pyr666 3 months ago
@pyr666 I've heard that one before. My argument about facts and evidence is the best you will ever hear. Anyone who can't or won't hear the truth uses facts and evidence.
334286 3 months ago
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@334286
can you prove that?
pyr666 3 months ago
Hitchslap Bitch!
iammach 9 months ago
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I hope he beats cancer.
goliathlup1 9 months ago
god is the longest prank in the world
SShinX2off 9 months ago 10
@SShinX2off Damn that Ashton Kutcher...we just got punked! >.<
tweaker1bms 1 month ago in playlist Christopher Hitchens vs Tariq Ramadan & A conversation with
@SShinX2off Either that, or life is a giant prank from god
JoshJamesification 6 days ago
youtube.com/watch?v=LvV2tw_0bKc
I'd like to dedicate this song to Sir Olasky !
anetchi 10 months ago
Muslims smell like Tyrannosaurus Rex farts.
ExNihiloJimmy 11 months ago
Hitchens was at his best here, focused, lucid, devastating
shortfuse41 11 months ago
Religion blows!
broomhall23 1 year ago
@broomhall23 It sucks and blows at the same time.
Thoughtland 11 months ago
@Calbenmike, Yes I will agree that evolutionary Biology has changed since Darwin.That's partly due to E O Wilson and other social -biologist that made discoveries in the 70's and 80's.That being said, we are talking about science, not religion. Religion was man's first attempt at science. Faulted as it was, it gave early man an understanding of their environment. It's 2011, 50 yrs from now our understanding of most of what we know will sufficiently change. Science is not set in stone.
MrBlink10001 1 year ago
Thank god for Athists.
dewatsa 1 year ago 2
Nothing new? And what does religion offer? How about nothing. It is nothing, it's an idea, that's all. Creationism.. talk about nothing new.You call what Hitchens has to say "drivel" because you are brainwashed, and you can't handle the truth.
slippolives 1 year ago
@slippolives I can't handle the truth? You're the one who has a problem with truth which is why you believe the lie of athiesm. Hitchens spews nothing new in his faith that hasn't been tried before. He just hasn't had credible competition. I think of his sheer horror when he finally realizes that he was wrong his entire life and that his chance for redemption is lost forever should he die unrepentant.
Calbenmike 1 year ago
@slippolives Religion does offer nothing. But Jesus Christ offers redemption for your sin.
Calbenmike 1 year ago
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@Calbenmike
'Religion does offer nothing. But Jesus Christ offers redemption for your sin.'
says who?
Buddyvision2010 1 year ago
@Calbenmike
"Jesus Christ offers redemption for your sin."
Why? How? What sin, actually? If there would be an omnipotent creator, I'd merely be the way that creator wants me to be. So the one deserving of punishment would be that creator, not anybody else. Jesus can stuff it.
MomoTheBellyDancer 11 months ago
i think hitchens is lazy. He's always going after weak minded fellows like Olasky.
inademv 1 year ago
@inademv That would mean more if you'd listed a faithful person who could contend with Hitchens.
potodd01 1 year ago
@potodd01 Plenty. Hitchens would get owned by Zacharias, Sproul, Hannegraaff, Lucado, and if he were alive today: Walter Martin. Hitchens drivel is nothing new.
Calbenmike 1 year ago
@Calbenmike lol- do those men have evidence that god exists?
Bumblybee256 1 year ago
@Bumblybee256 Absolutely. The Bible states that the evidence of God is clearly seen. Look at a human body. Look at the universe. God exists.
Calbenmike 1 year ago
@Calbenmike Is that why we have only one tube for both air and food so we are able to choke to death, an appendix that has no function (except to randomly burst and kill us), hips that are too narrow to give birth to young that are more developed and joints that wear away over time? I could go on. A human could design a better body, what are you flattering yourself with?
Bumblybee256 1 year ago
@Bumblybee256 Hips that are too narrow? are you kidding me? Do you even notice that women have hips so that they CAN give birth? Pain was greatly increased for women during childbirth due to man's sin. How about the ribcage being in place to protect the body's major organs? How about the unbelievable complexity of just one (let alone billions) human cell organism? How about the way a human is made in the womb? I could go on and on. What body do you think isn't an unbelievable creation?
Calbenmike 1 year ago
@Calbenmike Lol erm, no. Women suffer discomfort during childbirth because our bodies need to strike a balance between walking bipedally and having live young. You'll notice human offspring our pretty damn helpless- that's because they could not be born any bigger.
Lol- where's the protection for your jugular vein? What about all the exposed abdominal organs? You clearly don't know enough about biology- complexity proves nothing, it's been shown to arise through evolution. No designer needed.
Bumblybee256 1 year ago
@Bumblybee256 "Complexity proves nothing" Just this statement alone proves to me that you are clueless.
Calbenmike 1 year ago
@Calbenmike Or that you have absolutely no idea what evolution by natural selection is. You ignoring my other points is further evidence to me of how out of your own depth you are.
Bumblybee256 1 year ago
@Bumblybee256 Your other points aren't really valid. Evolution is nothing more than a theory and a flawed one at that. The missing link that they will never find has scientists baffled. Anyone that can't see that there is a God that created everything just further proves the Bible's explanation of human depravity. You and the other athiests will learn the hard way should you die in your sins. You waste much time trying to prove God's non-existence when it is futile.
Calbenmike 1 year ago
@Calbenmike Invalid because you don't like them? Do expand. A scientific theory in layman's terms is a fact. I expect you readily accept germ theory and the theory of gravitation. They have found plnety of 'missing links', your inability to keep up with scientific discoveries is your own responsibility. I don't have to prove a thing, that's your job and you fail. Continue benefitting from science while spitting in it's face and cherry picking from your precious book. More laughs for me.
Bumblybee256 1 year ago 5
@Calbenmike Scientific theories unite many individual facts into a singular concept. Evolution is comprised of quite a number of disparate facts which all help to explain the concept of gradual change via random mutation with environmental factors selecting for the fitness of organisms.
The term "missing link" is silly as evolution is a constant, gradual process. Every organism that has ever existed is itself a step in an evolutionary pathway. There is ALWAYS going to be a "missing link".
BigMikeMcBastard 1 year ago
@Calbenmike I urge you to actually study Evolution by Natural Selection. Honestly, you don't understand what you're arguing against.
rep300 1 year ago
@rep300 Oh I understand perfectly. Evolutionists are always changing their theory to match their heavily flawed beliefs. Read the first sentence of Genesis and evolution goes right out the window. For evolution to make ONE CELL to work within itself is an impossibility. It's been proven already.
Calbenmike 1 year ago
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rep300 1 year ago
@Calbenmike You seem to be missing a basic understanding of science and human advancement. Is it beyond your understanding that with time, study, observation and hard work we can not learn anything new about the universe and all that is in it? If people like you ruled the world, would we still be believing the world is flat because that was our first primitive understanding? I'm afraid your argument is as deeply flawed as your beliefs.
shortnfast 1 year ago
@Calbenmike "Read the first sentence of Genesis and evolution goes right out the window". Read the scientologist back catalogue and your belief system goes out the window. What is your point? That we should just read books on mythology and superstition and believe them without any questioning, evidence or research? Oh wait, thats exactly what you mean. You are a religious nut farm.
shortnfast 1 year ago
@shortnfast "Religious nut farm" Religion is manmade. Christianity is not religion. I deal with reason and logic. What you believe in has a molecular CELL forming on it's own, repairing itself, and duplicating itself on it's own all by CHANCE. You believe that all living things came about by nothing. You believe that things evolve over time forming other things which nothing has disappeared in that time. I'm sorry, but you're the nut here. How does it feel to put faith in nonsense?
Calbenmike 1 year ago
@Calbenmike Ah, but you yourself blindly believe that god came about from nothingness, with no mention as to what would have created god? Evolution works b/c it has plausability on it's side.Your magic space daddy b/s is just a convenient way to stop looking for real answers.If god did exist, it would be an atheist as well.It certainly wouldn't beleive in a higher power than itself, now would it? Just think about it... instead of praying for things to happen! Will you god fearers ever learn?
V45Rider 1 year ago
@V45Rider The only people that need to learn something are the evolutionists. God is eternal, he has no beginning. Everything originates from God. You and others that believe as you do have the real challenge that what you believe can be proven. Sorry for you it never has, not even close. The evolutionary theory is always changing to suit whatever the next alleged brilliant scientist finds next. Your faith is futile. You don't want to beleive in God because you don't want to change.
Calbenmike 1 year ago
@Calbenmike Why do you keep referring to atheists' as having faith? Again, faith is nothing more than beleiving blindly in something b/c your intellect isn't developed enought to figure things out! Might as well just say, well, big 'ol g o d did it all! Of course, that's the EASY way out, which you obviously prefer.Look, just go back to scarfing down McFatty's, waste your life away in the name of god, and watch your "country under god" slowly go to waste... god won't stop your heart attack!lol
V45Rider 1 year ago
@Calbenmike Why do you keep referring to atheists' as having faith? Again, faith is nothing more than believing blindly in something b/c your intellect isn't developed enought to figure things out! Might as well just say, well, big 'ol g o d did it all! Of course, that's the EASY way out, which you obviously prefer.Look, just go back to scarfing down McFatty's, waste your life away in the name of god, and watch your "country under god" slowly go to waste... god won't stop your heart attack!lol
V45Rider 1 year ago
@Calbenmike So let me get this straight you claim to know all about god based on what evidence? Have you literally meet the guy and found out all of these claims that you made, like everything originates from god and that he is eternal. And say evolution is faith and that it keeps changing when that is what science kind of does changes as new information is found. Plus The theory of evolution is the most established of all the scientific theories out there with over 250,000 peer review journals.
Criticallyincorrect 1 year ago
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@Criticallyincorrect I know God based on the Bible.
Calbenmike 1 year ago
@shortnfast Right on, short! Read what I wrote this mindless god fearing childmolester-supporting prick... cheers!
V45Rider 1 year ago
@V45Rider Yayyyy!!!!! Hey short, read what I wrote to this god fearing prick and see what an idiot I am!!!!! Yayyyyyyyy!!!!!
Calbenmike 1 year ago
@Calbenmike Ohh, puh leez, ma'am! Keep showing everyone that you're nothing more than a childish god fearer, still sucking your thumbs!
V45Rider 1 year ago
@Calbenmike Ohh, puh leez, ma'am! Keep showing everyone that you're nothing more than a childish god fearer, still sucking your thumbs! Better watch what you say, btw, cuz you're going straight to HELL for being such an arrogant BITCH! And fuck you...
V45Rider 1 year ago
@Calbenmike If you can tell that god exists by looking at the human body or at the universe then god surely exists in logic such as 2+2=4 or even evolution or philosophy and in theories even those by atheists. That presents a bit of a problem doesn't it?
Faith can't be like a cross to a vampire where all you have to do is whip out your faith argument and all discussion falls silent due to the awsome power of YOUR faith. The same faith that a Muslim, Jew, Buddist, Animist or any other religion.
1stormcat 1 year ago
@1stormcat The problem with all of the other religions you mention is the fact that they are all false and don't provide forgiveness of sins. Only Christianity has that assurance. God has instilled in every human being the knowledge that God exists, "athiests" just deny the simple fact.
Calbenmike 1 year ago
@Calbenmike then explain why the knowledge the God exists is not instilled in me. Only one explanation - it's not. And answer me this: if religion did not threaten eternal damnation along with existence in eternal paradise, would anyone adhere to it? We all know the answer to that...
surreal99 1 year ago
@surreal99 The Bible says that no one seeks God. God draws men to him. Me telling you the truth is in fact God drawing you to him and the truth. The parameters of believing in Jesus Christ and what it would be if they didn't exist doesn't matter at all. The fact is, is that Jesus' gospel is truth and it is a choice every person must make. The knowledge of God does exist in you, you just choose to not believe it. The makeup of a human being, the universe, etc is all overwelming evidence.
Calbenmike 1 year ago
@Calbenmike Consider other countries... there are people there who have never heard of Christianity/Catholicism/etc... So how can you say they have knowledge of "God" in them, yet alone say that they choose not to believe it?
Do you have any concept of formal logic? By saying the comment you have above, you are assuming that everyone has heard of "God" merely by saying that people make the choice not to believe it.
edwardburkard 11 months ago
@inademv, It's more that the argument against religion is so easy to reason whereas religion is very difficult (impossible?) to defend due to a total lack of evidence for it. Most religious leaders are not actually used to reasoning because they don't have to. In the echo chamber of a church there is no argument. You write your sermon and your sheep obey.
rickylarch 1 year ago
I feel like KFC
ExNihiloJimmy 1 year ago
All of these debates should start with the theist - NOT the atheist. It's unfortunate to always see it this way.
CreativeFilmMaker 1 year ago
Olasky got HITCHSLAPPED in this debate.
MrSalamander7 1 year ago 49
If you look at the world under the assumption God is real, everything you see will be evidence of God. Just like if you look at the world under the assumption that your life is just a part of someone else's dream (or nightmare), everything you see will be evidence of that. Subjective experience should never be used to form fact (even if it is your own).
PCrePs 1 year ago 3
Proof, you say? Read Genesis: the story of Noah's arc. What is the essence of Christianity? Individual judgement before god. Why then,does god decide to punish mankind by killing off all vertebrates and non vertebrates (genesis 6:13). Why would you worship a being that doesn't do what you are told to do, in order for you to have your soul saved? If he is without fault or sin, how can he pass collective judgement (incl. non cerebral animals)? I'm ready for rebuttal...
DeWaterpoort 1 year ago
(cont...) would be a waste of my time. I do not think that any amount of good reasoning will persuade you away from your deep convictions. If you like you may have the last word. I bid you farewell.
goethethegreat 1 year ago
@goethethegreat cont.. So I don't need to list the actions I find immoral. Please now present the proof for god. So far you have argued for a universe that prefers a god and not offered the proof. Let's stop messing around. I want the proof. Not philosophical arguments which so far has been all we've discussed
markgg1 1 year ago
@markgg1 I did not ask you to list G-Ds actions from the bible which you find immoral. I was asking what spacifically you cosider to be moral, in general. Are you serious? I have just finished explaining to you the difference in between "proof" and "reason". And you proceed to ask for "proof". Look, Mark I do not know you well but based on our limited conversation I get the impression of narrow mindedness and significantly limited intelligence. I think further communication with you (cont...)
goethethegreat 1 year ago
@goethethegreat I dont see how this is important, but ok what I find moral: being goof to others, inclusing animals Being good to the planet. Being helpful, compassionate, tolerant, understanding. Non violent unless absolutely neccesary plus a lot more, but hope u get the point.
markgg1 1 year ago
@goethethegreat ok I admit I do not understand the form of evidence you are using here? As far as I know using a philosophical argument or 'logic' is not a form of evidence, but a form of argument. You cannot argue the existance of something with mere words, u need evidence. If you say your evidence, are your words than your agument is circular and not impressive to me or anybody else.
To be honest, we can end if you want, but unless youve got your evidence, you have made no ground at all.
markgg1 1 year ago
@markgg1 like hitchens says, something presented without evidence needs no evidence to argue against it
TheKevturner 1 year ago 50
@TheKevturner It's only Hitchens opinion, that there is NO evidence, not a fact.
jasonmiddleton47 1 year ago
@jasonmiddleton47 where is the evidence then? There is none, so that means that it IS a fact that there is no evidence. And don't even say that the Bible is factual evidence, since men wrote it. Men also wrote the Qur'an and all other religious/mythical texts.
HippieDrummer06 1 year ago
@TheKevturner That depends on your definition of evidence. If you're left-brained, evidence is scientific facts, and only facts. If you're right-brained, it's intuition and revelation. Both are personal forms of evidence because we're all different.
334286 9 months ago
@334286 I wish this were true, but ask a feminist why she thinks men and women are the same and you'll hear a list of non-facts, intuition, revelation and moral exhortations. Ask an environmentalist why they think recycling is good and you'll get the same, devoid of any scientific facts.
The sooner you recognize that there are scientific-minded people on both sides the accurate your beliefs will be.
darwinkilledgod 9 months ago
@334286 facts are not personal evidence, as they van be verified by others using the same methods. Intuition and revelation have merrit too, but until you can produce verifyable results with them, they remain non-facts and nothing more then personal ideas.
PlanetJeroen 8 months ago
@PlanetJeroen I think that when science is viewed as simply our best effort to map out reality as a species, it is true to say that things like history, facts about a person's mood, and even true personal ideas are all a part of science whether or not we are in a position to quantify them scientifically right now.
ryanp123456 8 months ago
@ryanp123456 History is written by the victor. So it's biased. A persons mood is the difference between what that person wants/expects from life and what is actualy there. So it only tells something about that persons internal map of reality. Personal ideas can lead to facts if it's intuition .. but other then that remain subjective, unless they are equal to a certain scientific theory in which case they are not really personal ideas I'd say ..
PlanetJeroen 8 months ago
@PlanetJeroen I understand why you would bring these things up but, all I am trying to say is that all science is, is our best effort to understand reality, no more no less.
So if a person actually witnesses a UFO, and this person forms the belief that a UFO was where he saw it was at the time that he saw it., whether or not the scientific community at large ever accepts that this took place, the belief that was formed is actually science because it is the truest account of what took place.
ryanp123456 8 months ago
@ryanp123456 You over simplify it .. science is the best explanation based on verifyable evidence and theorys that explain the behaviour of the subject based on laws. These theories can be used to predict outcomes and are falsifyabe .. the belief in a UFO is none of the above.
PlanetJeroen 8 months ago
@PlanetJeroen You over complicate it. I equate true knowledge with science. Your definition works for describing most science, the way it is done today. My definition will continue to work as science grows in the future.
ryanp123456 8 months ago
@ryanp123456 Your definition leaves out everything that makes is science .. maybe in the future we gain the technology to measure, detect and interpret currently unexplained phenomena, but we wont start relying on guess work based on intuïtion.
PlanetJeroen 8 months ago
@PlanetJeroen It is based on maximizing the well being of conscious creatures. I'm willing to put the word science aside for the moment. Wouldn't you agree that a discussion about the well being of all the people involved would be worth having before, say some major military action? Would this discussion be better had among people being honest or people with their own biases? Assuming you've answer the way you are expected to why would a science of morality be anything but a good thing?
ryanp123456 8 months ago
@ryanp123456 Well, you can aproach that with science as well .. see Sam Harris on morality for that. Yeah that would be a good thing, but seems a different point to me.
True knowledge based on ideas does not land probes on mars or send probes past the edge of our solar system. You need quantifyable results for that. The consiousness that preceeds thinking is a different thing again, and science can not reach there.
PlanetJeroen 8 months ago
@PlanetJeroen I suppose we don't have a disagreement, all I want to advocate is the use of honest conversation and reason as a way to fill our the gaps in our knowledge. This is how each of us form our worldviews anyway. The only thing I guess we differ on is whether we are willing to put the label of science on this conversation.
ryanp123456 8 months ago
@ryanp123456 i dont think its a question of are we willing to, but rather a question of should we, should we base our honest conversations off superstition, with no real basis in fact, or should we test our convictions using the same method that keeps us safe from things like polio and malaria? last time i checked there has never been a peer reviewed study showing that "god works miracles." i think that any worldview, however noble, that is based on a fairytale is, frankly, sophomoric at best
papelhojas 6 months ago 2
@markgg1 you can have LOGICAL PROOF... ie i can provide physical evidence that if I have have 1 apple and add another apple i will have 2 apples. I cannot provide physical evidence that if i have 1000000 apples and I add 1000000 apples I will have 2000000 apples, however I can prove that it would be the case with logical reasoning.
sadly religion fails to provide Either physical evidence or logical proof. believing in something which has neither of those 2 is the definition of faith.
Newmaidumosa 1 year ago
@goethethegreat I find gods behaviour in the bible immoral. I assume you know the bible so I don't
markgg1 1 year ago
BIT OF NEWS FOR EVERYONE:
Hitchens has been diagnosed with throt cancer, and is undergoing chemotherapy. Apparently it is in an early stage, so he has a good chance of long term survival.
The moral of the story is this: Drinking and smoking is bad for you.
markgg1 1 year ago
@markgg1 Let us hope that Mr. Hitchens beats this health issue.
paulwilfridhunt 1 year ago
@paulwilfridhunt I think we can all agree on that. Whatever someones beliefs are. I would wish Olasky the best of luck if he had cancer also.
I think the non religious and religious actually agree on more than we realise :-)
markgg1 1 year ago
the bible has all the answers and the big answer is JESUS the Christ who died and was raised from the dead ,proving the defeat of Death for mankind , now that's GOOD NEWS
valu777 1 year ago
@valu777
I hope you aren't being serious
AR333 1 year ago
@AR333 YES I AM DEAD SERIOUS
valu777 1 year ago
@valu777 interesting theory.. no evidence im afraid.
markgg1 1 year ago
@markgg1 yes i know its a shame the atheists have no evidence for their position , is like its a religion or something , as one must believe in ones position and without evidence its a belief in atheism with pure blind faith ,, where do you go to church ?
valu777 1 year ago
@valu777 No evidence for my position? I dont have a position.. thats the point.
Im not making a claim, you are,
markgg1 1 year ago
@markgg1 but you are taking the atheist position are you not?
valu777 1 year ago
@valu777 Atheism is not really a 'position'. It has simply been given a name because it is in response to a large majority of people who hold a belief. Imagine if the whole world believed we lived in the matrix, and I didn't. Than just because the matrix view is popular I would need a label. In this world where
Noone believes the matrix idea I don't need the antimatrix label, even though in both worlds I hold the same position. Does that make sense?
markgg1 1 year ago
@valu777
Hopefully education systems across the globe will one day teach children that religion, myths and legends are context-specific phenomenon. You can't understand the origins of Christianity without understanding the Greco-Roman historical time frame. Once you do study this, you realize that Christianity is no different from all the other religions, it is influenced by past and at-the-time present conditions. Simply put: it's man-made.
To deny this is to deny intellectual honesty.
AR333 1 year ago
@AR333 every child should be taught the bible first and then the other not as useful stuff should be taught second as we should first seek the kingdom of God
valu777 1 year ago
@valu777
That remark is pathetic, I hope you never gain any kind of power of the education system.
AR333 1 year ago
@AR333 whats bad with my remark children need Jesus Christ and a solid biblicial education in these last days
valu777 1 year ago
@valu777 No they don't, they need critical thinking skills. That's the difference between secularists and zealots. Secularists want a solid and well-rounded education, which includes religion classes but in the form of comparative mythology courses, which would actually give them historical and contextual information on any particular faith.
You would have them start with a dogmatic conclusion : JESUS CHRIST JESUS CHRIST man go grovel in a corner. That's not an education.
AR333 1 year ago
@AR333 Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
valu777 1 year ago
@valu777
You quote from the book of revelations when trying to convey a point? Only the uneducated would hesitate to pity you.
AR333 1 year ago
@AR333 where did you get all your education from == books? right
i woulds say that is being an educational hypocrite
valu777 1 year ago
@valu777 No I didn't, not all from books, and either way, that's not something you can possibly assert. What will remain is that you, in the 21st century, decide to throw verses from the book of REVELATIONS, and expect to be taken seriously?
I maintain my previous point: anybody who has any respect for intellectually honesty will look at that comment of yours with pity.
AR333 1 year ago
@AR333 where did you get your education from then ?
valu777 1 year ago
@valu777 Why? So that I can name a college that you can then call "liberal"? Seriously, it's too late for you to even make a point.
Quoted the book of revelations at me, wow. That did something, but not in your favor.
AR333 1 year ago
@AR333 no so that i can point out that your education is from books and others education passed on from teacher to teacher Right?
this makes your request to throw out the bible stupid thats all ?
valu777 1 year ago
@valu777 Of course people should learn about the bible. It is a ancient piece of literature that has probably the biggest effect on human history than anything else.
I hope this is wha you mean. If you want to use the bible as a moral code, I would ask you kindly to actually read it from beginning to end, than get back to me on that one.
markgg1 1 year ago
@markgg1 good answer
valu777 1 year ago
@valu777
Don't you try and straw man what I said. I didn't say "throw it out". Now you're just being snaky.
You said "teach it first" and "kingdom of god". I said the bible has its place in history, which you seem to deny because you see it as a revelation. Are you that desperate for the last word?
You killed your credibility back when you decided to bible verse me.
AR333 1 year ago
@AR333 my we are touchy aren't we . the bible is the most peer reviewed group of documents the world has ever seen and will ever see , its credibility is accepted by more peers than any scientific document ever written , the bible is Gods manual for man . it foretells the future and explains the past , it has tips for living for the now , over all it is a great masterpiece , one should study it to be truly educated
valu777 1 year ago
@valu777 You really ought to quit it, you're digging yourself in.
AR333 1 year ago
@AR333 and how am i digging myself in ? , its Jesus the way the truth and the life , he is the resurection thats digging my self out
valu777 1 year ago
@valu777.the divine is well over mr hitchens or religions.we can t describe it.we don t know what it is,yet, it s right here...you hear it in the ocean roar,you see it as the sun or the moon rise.you feel it in a nice breeze,on a summer afternoon.things has been set into motions but it doesn t mean we re being watched.we simply don t know the mystery of this immense universe and how it all started or will end.we re so scared of the unknown but we re part of it.don t be scared and enjoy this life
diztanguy 1 year ago
@diztanguy .we re so scared of the unknown but we re part of it.don t be scared and enjoy this life
what then when this life is over ?
valu777 1 year ago
@valu777.no one knows.but my own belief is there could well be something else after death.still the greatest unanswered question pops to mind:is there life after death?religions and the scientific world have given us no proof and are trying,in their own ways, to prove each other wrong.i d say you and i will only find out when we die.it would take great arrogance and ignorance to pretend knowing
diztanguy 1 year ago
@diztanguy good comment , lets look at Jesus resurected from the dead , showed him selfv to witneses , told us of the the things to come
valu777 1 year ago
HItchens is the fucking man!
bavwill 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@bavwill 2Pe 3:3 First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 2Pe 3:4 They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation."
valu777 1 year ago
I think you find that if you dig deep enough you will probably find that Mr Hitchens is actually a Satanist who is disguising himelf as an Atheist and Mr Dawkins is probably in the same camp. If a Satanist could be either of these two men they would jump at the chance because they know that they would be furthering the cause of Satan which is what they are all about.
paulwilfridhunt 1 year ago
@paulwilfridhunt Now you have lost me.... Satan?
Its talk like this is why religion disturbs me. I have read the bible and infact the only thing satam actually did was rebel against god... the church has given him fantastically bad P.R.
Its god who sends people to hell, not satan. Also if god is powerful, why doesnt he just kill satan?
Christianity is full of too many logical holes for anyone to take seriously, as well as backed by no evidence whatsoever.
come into the light my friend
markgg1 1 year ago
@markgg1 I am not surprised that you are lost over the Satanic issue because most of your bretheran are entirely ignorant when it comes Satanism. But, alas, you have gotten ahead of yourself by not addressing the point which is IS IT SATANISM THAT IS MOTIVATING THESE GUYS LIKE Mr. Hitchens and Mr Dawkins.
paulwilfridhunt 1 year ago
@paulwilfridhunt Ok... where is your proof satan motivates Atheists?
Also, whats wrong with being an atheist? there is no evidence whatsoever that atheists are more likely to kill, rape be gay. Infact its the oppposite.
Also, if god onlu cares about me worshipping and not living a good moral life, than this guy does not deserve mine or your worship. If the god of the bible is true, he needs to come tp earth again as a man and this time be put in front of the International Criminal Court.
markgg1 1 year ago
@markgg1 Ok for the moment I will assume that you do really want proof that satan can be the motivation behind some atheists. Satan's agenda is to oppose Christ. If he can have some of his followers disguised as atheists then he is well pleased because in doing so these so called atheists are thwarting God by claiming His non existence.
paulwilfridhunt 1 year ago
@paulwilfridhunt I dont believe in god not because Im against god.. but because I dont believe there is such thing as god.
If the old testament god, zeus. poseidon or Allah existed.. than yes I would be against god.
Do you understand this?
markgg1 1 year ago
@markgg1 You don't believe in God because way deep down where you are not looking you don't want to believe in God. I know the reasons why you are the way you are but hey guess what, you don't know.
paulwilfridhunt 1 year ago
@paulwilfridhunt I used to believe in god. I think the turning point was actually reading the bible a bit, anf than thinking seriously about the stories like Noah's ark and Joseph and resurection.
And than I learnt about other religions with completely incomplatible claims
You believe because you WANT to believe and not because there is a good reason. This you have to admit to yourself.
markgg1 1 year ago
@markgg1 You say that you once believed in God and that the turning point was reading the bible. This is what I say. I say that you got sucked into feeling important at the idea of God not existing because in so doing you felt more important than you did before. But you will disagree because you don't know a person called you. Disagree away.You will know the truth when you God judges you.
paulwilfridhunt 1 year ago
@paulwilfridhunt Fortunately for me, there is no reason to believe the bible, so im not worried about satan or god... as well as Allah, Poseidon, and Zeus...
cumon man, all these stories are just first age musings by people who hadd lots of time and didnt understand how the world works. Its 2010 now, and I just think theres no good excuse to believe this stuff... lets leave it in the past as an interesting part of our history. Thats all it is
markgg1 1 year ago
@markgg1 Well isn't that just a big big boo boo when you say well shucks I see no reason to believe in the Bible. Obviously you have never read the book by the Jewish guy Dr Jeffrey Satinover called THE TRUTH BEHIND THE BIBLE CODES. Instead of trying to be a genius at debating why don't you change trades and become the worlds greatest detective by checking it out.
paulwilfridhunt 1 year ago
@paulwilfridhunt Im reading the bible and quran currently, but they are frankly hard to read. The narrative is poor. Ive read reason for god, and heard probably all the arguments of gods existance such as Cosmological, Teleological, source of morality. etc... Not a single one impresses me for one simple reason. They are all based on pure speculation and can apply to any religion. There are hundreds of contradictory religions, not all of them can be right.
Y did u pick bible?
markgg1 1 year ago
@markgg1 I suppose it depends upon your heart attitude when you are reading the Bible. I guy whom I know well who was for 38 years a full blown atheist read the bible from cover to cover and in so doing became converted. But he was at a point in his life where he was really searching.
paulwilfridhunt 1 year ago
@paulwilfridhunt I read the bible with a completely open mind assumign nothing (this is how I appricah all things in life, and I urge others to also)
So far it has been like this: God made everything (no detail given). Than he decides to kill everyone in a flood. Noah and all the millions of animals fit on a small boat. God than decides to destroy two towns cause they are 'full of evil' (no detail given) angels visit lot in the town and tell him. A mob comes so lot offers his virgin daughter up
markgg1 1 year ago
@markgg1 You don't seem to be a seeker of truth although you seem to indicate that you are. For all I know you could be just another satanist that is hell bent on destroying arguments in favour of God. Satan's gig it to paint God in a most unfavourable light which I see that you too are pretty good at doing, pathetic as it is.
paulwilfridhunt 1 year ago
@paulwilfridhunt yes that must be it... you know I have got a good point, so I must be satan.
Satan only needs to point people to the bible to make god look bad.
cumon man! its 2010. Leave this stuff in the past.
its fine to say, perhaps someone created the universe but we just dontk know who or how yet..
A court and science always assumes nothing until evidence comes in. We require this concept to function. This is how we get planes in the sky and recieve surgey. Evidence based knowledge
markgg1 1 year ago
@markgg1 Isn't interesting how we choose to see things differently. You complain about the Flood and Sodom and Gomorah instead of actually fearing God. Obviously if God has done all this He can certainly squash you like an ant and kick your sorry butt into hell.In other words its entirely obvious that God is unbeatable but what do you do like a crazed loon. Say no more.
paulwilfridhunt 1 year ago
@paulwilfridhunt So you worship god because he is powerful and could squash me like an ant?
If god sends me to hell for a dose of skepticism, than god is not worthy of Mark's worship, or yours or anybody elses.
If you want to worship a tyrant, thats your business... but I respect decency, kindness, compassion, tolerance and love.. not bigotry, oppression and tyranny that is your god.
You god can kiss my arse.
markgg1 1 year ago
@markgg1 No I don't worship God because He is all powerful and could squash me as an ant. However I'm not such an idiot that says boo hoo God is a meanie therefore I am going to deliberately throw my life away in hell.What kind of crazyness is that.
paulwilfridhunt 1 year ago
@markgg1 Your attitude toward God is absurd. There you are like a little flea wagging your finger at God and saying naughty naughty. You have no idea of what God is nor do you want to know.You are such a pathetic bigot that you cannot see the love of God nor do you wanna see it.
paulwilfridhunt 1 year ago
@markgg1 I am now reasonably convinced that you are actually a satanist that is pretending to be an atheist.You have all the trappings of one. Satan himself declares that his expulsion from heaven was unfair and that God is unfair. He knows that his ultimate end will be one of extinction in hell and therefore in retaliation he takes as many suckers with him as possible.
paulwilfridhunt 1 year ago
@markgg1 In all rebellion there is power and it is not excluded from the rebellion towards God hence the reason for the appeal of such behaviour. You must have your way and in order to maintain your treachery towards your maker you must deny God's love and say ridiculous things like God is a tyrant. Satan is constantly trying to believe the impossible that he can defeat God. His hellish fate is set but is yours too.
paulwilfridhunt 1 year ago
@paulwilfridhunt ok,... according to your faith im going to hell, fair enough.
Considering Im your average guy. Never raped, or killed. Stolen the odd chocolate bar as a ki, and maybe told some mild lies... But I guess according to your faith, I deny Jesus as my lord due to the fact I dont believe he exists.
do I deserve infiniate suffering and pain for these crimes? Please be honest.
markgg1 1 year ago
@markgg1 Yes in your present, spitting in the face of God, condition you are big time going to hell. God says hey look I don't wanna you to go to hell. I wanna you to go to heaven and live forever in true happiness and beauty.And all you gotta do is keep the 10 biggies which yes includes no raping or stealing but it also includes Loving God as outlined in the first commandment.You are not doing this and why.You are not a survivor. Its the only conclusion I can come to.
paulwilfridhunt 1 year ago
@markgg1 If you read the Scriptures carefully you will see that you don't actually fry in hell forever although every other Tom and Jerry will tell you otherwise. You actually perish in hell and I can prove this.No you don't deserve infinite pain and suffering and you won't be getting it but you will be getting some before your lights are put out.
paulwilfridhunt 1 year ago
@markgg1 There are many many people who are decent and noble but are going to end up in hell because they refuse to love God. The repenting thief who was not noble hanging on his cross goes to heaven because he repents of the life that he led. The reason for this life is to see if we qualify for everlasting life and without the love of God we fail that qualification.People amaze me how they with great detemination run for miles but have'nt got the guts to repent and love their maker.
paulwilfridhunt 1 year ago
@markgg1 If you end up in hell you are without excuse. You won't be able to say to God gee shucks I didn't really know that you existed. Because deep down you know that He does although you do such a good job of hiding this from yourself that you cannot see it. Your true sub concious position is one of defiance towards your maker and this is how you and everyone will eventually get to see it. My advice is to always face the truth now rather than later when its too late.
paulwilfridhunt 1 year ago
@markgg1 All of us that have come to Christ were to a leasser or greater degree like you. Turning to Christ is no easy business. In our efforts to be admired by others we can lead lives that God Himself doesn't admire us for. I now strive to lead a God pleasing life instead of the man pleasing life that I wore like a suit for 40 long years. The thought of not being admired by others or being considered foolish for following God stopped me in my tracks on that journey 40 times around the sun.
paulwilfridhunt 1 year ago
@paulwilfridhunt well thats ur faith... and i respect that, and i guess u hold them sincerely and your concern for me is why you talk to me so I appreciate that.
But the lack of evidence for these beliefs means I just cannot believe. There is no good evidence for anything magical or supernatural and god falls under this category.
I philosophical and moral arguments for me are more credible. Further weight to my rejection comes from the lack of a shred of physical evidence, plus the many faiths
markgg1 1 year ago
@markgg1 Well I suppose it depends on what you want as evidence. If you want the big voice that booms out of the sky you are not going to get it. I didn't get it but I got faith. I reasoned that Christ sounded right and good and true. He was a great teacher with more than a few miracles including the ressurection and if I needed validation then this would be sufficient for me. I took a leap of faith into God via Jesus Christ and after doing so He gave me experiences thats prove God.
paulwilfridhunt 1 year ago
@markgg1 When you say that yopu are without evidence you are actually kidding yourself. I know this because I have a degree called I KNOW WHAT THE STORY IS ALL ABOUT WHEN IT COMES TO THE KIDDING OF THYSELF. You don't know this story because you don't have my degree, albeit that I am self taught but not by books.
paulwilfridhunt 1 year ago
@markgg1 The evidence which you reject and which is infinitely more profound than the booming voice from out of the sky, is nature itself. Are we to be forced to call you wise because you say that INDEED THIS DID NOT COME FROM GOD BUT FROM NO ONE.You choose to say that God didn't do it because it would have been too difficult for him to do so, therefore instead you latch onto the outer extremities of crazyness and actually with a straight face say it happened without God at all and all by itself
paulwilfridhunt 1 year ago
@paulwilfridhunt For me, to live life on faith is a mistake... I obviously believe we have one short existance, and we must make the most of it. I think the world is all there is, and the people in it. Thats why I think we should care for others, and the planet.. as well as try to understand reality through science, and not waste our lives on unfounded beliefs or ideas. For me radiowaves or light or cell biology is magical enough.. I dont need something beyond the universe to please me.
markgg1 1 year ago
@markgg1 I think that when it comes to your most precious asset which happens to be your life you don't deny yourself from reading the wise words spoken by Jesus Christ the great teacher on the subject. However its a free country and you are perfectly welcome to listen to your own record thats stuck in a groove that sings your own song your own way but hey guys like me are not going to sing along with you, because with all due respect Jesus Christ knows more than you.
paulwilfridhunt 1 year ago
@markgg1 Yes we should have a caring attitiude towards others thats a true statement of yours but the 10 commandments, which you unwisely choose not to keep, tell us in the very first commandment to love God with all our heart and soul and mind. God actually doesn't need the love but when we neglect to do so we trangress against our own soul with a display of atrocious rudeness.
paulwilfridhunt 1 year ago
@paulwilfridhunt I will accept I could be wrong.. but I think the probability is so low it doesn't concern me.
I used to be vaguely religious as a child, so I have given it a go... why don't you accept that you may not be right, and there is a chance god doesn't exist.. so try not to be so sure of your beliefs, as there are many other religions with different explanations on how we woke up in the universe.
If god exists, Im sure he will understand.
markgg1 1 year ago
@markgg1 The problem is that you know there is a chance that you are wrong and it frustrates you to see my attitiude that displays my certainty that I am right. I know I am right but you hope you are right and as you have a bit of might on the side of your supposed right you tend to get some comfort form the axiom that might is right although it is as wrong as wrong can be. God does happen to reveal Himself to those that by faith jump off the Titanic onto the ship of life.
paulwilfridhunt 1 year ago
@markgg1 Yes God does understand you but no He is not going to let you off the hook for your great ability to ignore Him with fob offs Of WELL GOSH WE JUST DON'T KNOW DO WE particularly when you never really became a true seeker. He does say seek and you will find. You will find hell because you chose to not sincerely seek. Matt:7:13 Broad is the way that leadeth to destruction and MANY there be which go in thereat.
paulwilfridhunt 1 year ago