God is someone who can neither deceive nor be deceived.
He certainly doesnt deceive himself
Christ died for us, we need to die to ourselves ( & sin ) and live for God, through Gods grace. So the work of Gods salvation - is wrought in us.
We need to do this to such an extent that we can say with St Paul in Galatians 2:20 "I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me"
The Zionist will no longer rule over us with there iron fist, it is no longer The Jesus of faith It is now the Jesus of Faith & Gnosis!!!
The reason why this is is because we know the symbol-order & name of the next Pope, Peter The Roman!!! Who was to feed his flock to the wolve's, just as st.Malachy said if you know ahead of time that politial agenda can be prevented!!!
@polopowers1 Christ's flesh was not made sin by the Holy Spirit in Mary's womb. Neither did Christ's flesh become mystically; sin. If He was sin He would have corrubted in the grave He was accepted atonement without blemish at death. He appeased. Made has no application to becoming.Also sin can mean offense (hamartema) not hamrtano to miss the mark. He who knew no offense became an offense for us not literal sin. I'm totally free from law. God is not law but perpetual Virtue in Holy Character
@polopowers1 He became a actual curse for us, He was made sin who knew no sin that we might be made the rightousness of God 2 cor 5 :21 read romans 5:15 end of chapter, very good reading
It is not the sin transferred it is the sins judgment. Christ was never " touched with sin "the exceeding righteousness is Christ death. We are made new creations in Christ declared rightious by the new Nature we become.I have no physical righteousness in my flesh. I'm righteouss by the new creation I am not becoming. It is not inside or upon but rather the nature of new creations born again.The trouble believers get into is where is this righteousness but its all that I am as a new creation.
Each of us will be judged according to our own faith, the faith of another will not be credited to anyone. It was Abraham's own faith which God regarded as righteous, even though he was not perfect. Trusting God (which is Biblical faith) is always pleasing to God. Imputed righteousness is an evil, false and unjust doctrine.
I've had to do a lot of "un-learning" of these doctrines.
How can a man be declared just when he's not just? One word: FORGIVENESS
Oh, you don't think it's forgiveness?
The only place where "imputed righteousness" is listed like that is by Paul who, when he says it, makes a reference to David talking about it, where David is talking about God forgiving people.
"Imputed" simply means "reckoned", not TRANSFERED. We are accounted as righteous because our sin is forgiven - we are treated like...
@krononomikon ...we are therefore treated as though we did nothing wrong (accounted righteous) even though we were unrighteous, because God has forgiven us. "Love holds no record of wrongs".
Still not convinced? If Jesus' actual righteousness is transferred to us, then why does John say, "DO NOT BE DECEIVED, CHILDREN: whoever PRACTICES righteousness IS righteous, just as HE (Jesus) is righteous"? Also, why does Jesus say we will be forgiven IF we forgive others? Recall the 10 lepers story...
@krononomikon ...Recall the 10 lepers story and the story of the sinful woman forgiven to realize what God is seeking and what "becoming the righteousness of God" is. Of the 10 lepers, only one returned and glorified God! The woman who was forgiven, she loved because Jesus loved her first (and forgave her). That's why John also says, "not that we loved Him, but He loved us and gave His life for us". So we are affected by God's love in Christ unto the renewing of our minds to be like Him.
16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” 17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.” 18 “Which ones?” he inquired. Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[c] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’
The pope is the anti christ he is the only power in the history of the human race that came out of the divided roman empire after its collapse that destroyed 3 of the original ten kingdoms which came out of the divided roman empire that changed the sabbath day from saturday to sunday that killed millions of christians in the inqustion and that called himself the substitute of jesus. jesus SAID said will put his false servant the anti christ in the christian church and surley the pope is 666
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him. II Corinthians 5:21 Very good video. Sadly, I don't hear much on this subject.
Where can we find in the scripture that the sins of men are transfered in Christ Jesus? The real "word" for that is "bear or bore" .
let's read 1 Peter 2:24 He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.” Peter said that.
The guy on the video is wrong when he used the word "transfered". If the sins are transfered then the logical conclusion is Jesus is a sinner to.
@minescore You're absolutely right! And this is one reason why narrow is the way and CONSTRICTING is the path that leads to life, and for that reason, few find it. Because it's a difficult road to conform to Him. Yet, by His love that He loved us with, we CAN have our consciences cleansed and die to sins and live for righteousness! :)
But think: this man is a fairly-renowned theologian, and he is still making errors. Just a little yeast can leaven the whole lump! God let us weigh it heavily!
The problem is whether or not imputed righteous quantitative so that Christians live holy lives instead of sinful lives. Imputed is not imputed if it isn't imputed on us in our behavior and way of life. Imputation is not imputed if it is only a theory.
@biblejournal i see what your saying... but isn't that where sanctification comes to play? I mean... as soon as I am born again, I do not instantly live a sinless life. Though true salvation does bear righteous fruit and a distaste for sin and a desire towards righteous living.
@biblejournal Imputation means reckoning or accounting in early modern english. We really need to start giving people the NKJVs instead of tolerating the original KJVs. There's nothing more holy about early modern english, and it makes a lot of confusion. Being forgiven is being accounted righteous, because we're treated as though we have not sinned when we have; love keeps no record of wrongs. God is rich in mercy! His mercy is enough to fill the universe, and God loved us in Jesus first :)
Note: He says "concept of imputation". Imputed righteousness is a theory of soteriology, not from scripture. Study to see if these things are true before you accept the authority of great teachers over the Bible. Notice how he hardly quotes any scripture, he's just explaining his theory without looking at the text in the Bible.
If the sinfulness of every human being was laid on Christ's shoulders, and that part of the imputation is sufficient to avoid hell, it follows inescapably from R.C.'s own argument that no one will be sent to hell as a punishment.
@AvadaKedavra1138 Well since this seems to be merely a short clip from a longer presentation, it is likely you're taking this out of context. Your question is a good one, "Did Christ die for everyone? Is his atonement effectual for all?" Such questions are addressed in something known as the doctrine of limited atonement. Essentially what it boils down to is that Christ died and rose to save all those that believe in him and repent.
@yobosayo227 The problem with the doctrine of limited atonement, at least for anyone who defends inerrancy, is that Paul explicitly repudiates it in at least two places. In two separate places, he makes a direct analogy between original sin (which impacts everyone), and the atonement. He says that JUST AS original sin condemned all, SO the atonement provides life for all. The analogy between the two could not be clearer.
Actually, Christ died and rose to save the WHOLE human race, the whole human family. This is called "legal justification". In Adam, we all sinned, In Christ, ALL men were justified legally, but In Christ. This is the "In-Christ-Motif". He did not die for only those who believe. Christ ransomed the entire human family at His death In Christ, now that righteousness of Christ is imputed upon those who accept it. The gift is there, but we must take a hold of it. Romans 5:6-18 (esp. 18)
@Lysimachus78 I agree Christ died for the whole human race, but his atonement is not effectual for all. "Legal justification" means God declares a wicked person just before Himself. The wicked creature isn't instantly made just, but is forensically declared so. To say that the whole human race is legally justified is to state the whole human race is pardoned by God. Additionally the question must be asked "How can God justify a wicked man and be just Himself?"
"Legal Justification" does not declare the wicked righteous. Legal Justification is "In Christ", not in the individual. Every wicked person has been given the gift. It is now for them to simply take hold of it & act upon it. This brings tears to the eyes of many once they r able to understand the significance of what Christ did for them. Remember, if ALL men were condemned IN ADAM, & Christ is the Second Adam, the reverse is true. ALL were legally ransomed. Now it's just for them to accept it.
@Lysimachus78 The only provision to the above question is an alien righteousness forensically counted as ours (imputed righteousness of Christ). Thus, the only way a person is legally justified is to have Christ's righteousness imputed to him. Additionally, please also observe Rom5:19 as it parallels v18. The former declares Christ died for "all men" while the latter states it was for "the many." This is similar to Jesus' words in Matt20:28.
My father, who is a a minister, &my family, r full supporters of the 1888 message. While Rom 5:18 says "for many", this term is another term for "all". Compare with Matthew 26:28. Was Christ's blood shed only for believers? Of course not. It was a LOT more than just "dying".Notice: "For there is one God, and one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a RANSOM FOR ALL." 1 Tim 2:5,6. This is the message that Adventists have rejected in Waggoner and Jones.
@Lysimachus78 Is everyone saved from condemnation? Certainly not. It is quite plain many people reject God and thus are condemned to hell. Thus, how can God's ransom for all men be effectual for all men? I do not deny Christ was set forth as an atonement which is available for all men, but his atonement is not applied to all men (those who reject God). As further evidence for "the many" not referring to "the all" please continue on to the next post.
The Greek for "the many", is exactly that. "The many". And "The Many", means, "ALL". Christ's blood was shed for the human race, not just the elect. Calvinists use this argument all the time. & even ARMENIANS have to argue back by proving that "the many" means "all". But suddenly, when it comes to the 1888 message, they conveniently switch gears to try and prove that "the many" does not mean all. The only way to believe that "the many" does not mean "all", you have to become a Calvinist.
@Lysimachus78 Jesus saves his people from their sins (Matt1:21). This begs the question "Who are his people? Does this include the whole human race or not?" To see a clear answer, look to Jesus analogy of being the Good Shepherd in John 10:25-30. Jesus tells a group of people they do not believe in him because they are not his sheep, not part of his flock (v26). Rather, his sheep are those who hear his voice and follow him(27). It is to these that are granted eternal life (v28)
You are simply not grasping what we are saying! It's not sinking in, this is your problem. You're not grasping what the 1888 message is all about, that's why you keep rejecting what I'm saying. It requires many books, and MANY sermons in order to grasp its depth. You're looking at it superficially, without really knowing what you are refuting.
You are obviously missing the big picture. Nobody doubts that God saves only his sheep who follow Him. One would have to be a Universalist to deny this fact. I have not once asserted that the whole world is His flock! You're missing the magnitude of Christ's sacrifice. Even if the WHOLE world lived a life of righteousness, His sacrifice would still be required. In Adam, ALL (even the righteous!) were condemned! You are missing the picture!
@Lysimachus78 Friend the problem is the fallacy of equivocation. You're using classical, orthodox Christian terms and are redefining/misusing them (i.e. legal justification, ransom/redemption, etc). Because of this, no rational discourse is possible. One last side comment, please be careful when analyzing the greek text. It is easy to commit the simplest hermeneutical fallacy of relying on lexical definitions to interpret a passage. The context & grammar is critical to understanding.
@yobosayo227 Please note the last sentence is suppose to be "The context & grammar are critical to understanding." Funny I should insert a grammatical mistake in that sentence :p
Thank you for replying. However, you have still not responded to my question. What theological persuasion do you subscribe to? Adventism? Calvinism? Who am I dealing with here? ;) It is possible that we both agree, yet are getting caught up in semantics and phraseology.
@Lysimachus78 I apologize, my last three posts were meant to be in succession, but I replied to your different posts on accident. Please note my first response comes after your comment which starts "Notice what EGW states..."
I will respond to u later, but I will say one thing. It blows my mind how u cannot see the beauty of the 1888 message. EGW called it "a most precious message". Have u read all the statements from Waggoner & Jones? Their sermons? Clearly, they emphasized over & over that the whole race had been legally justified in Christ, & Ellen White ENDORSED these statements. U have a problem now, unless, of course, u reject EGW. Sadly, the Latter Rain cannot fall until this message is accepted, fully.
"He was represented through the sacrificial offerings until He came to our world. Here Christ offers this prayer, and what does it say to us? The HUMAN RACE IS ACCEPTED IN THE BELOVED. His long human arm ENCIRCLES THE RACE, while with His divine arm He grasps the throne of the Infinite, and He opens to man ALL all of heaven. The gates are ajar today. Christ is in the heavenly sanctuary and your prayers can go up to the Father." (1888 Materials, pg. 124)
@Lysimachus78 Please note 1Cor1:30 which is the clearest example I know of to describe what it means to be "in Christ." It is an act of God ("by Him" or "from Him") in which Christ becomes one's righteousness. The whole act of being in Christ means his righteousness is counted as belonging to the believer. Thus, it is impossible to be "in Christ" yet without his righteousness imputed. Also note, in terms of reconciling "many" with "all." Does "many" necessitate "all"? Certainly not.
There is a difference between being In Christ as an individual, & Legally Being in Christ, in the sense of the ransom being paid for all. We have ALL been "bought with a price". Now it's those who accept it that receive Christ's righteousness, but that righteousness is already theirs legally. You cannot deny the plain and simple meaning of Romans 5 and 1 Timothy 2:5,6.
The Calvinists use the SAME argument as u are about the word "many", proving that Christ died only for the "elect".
What a horrible way to look at a person. In the real world we consider it virtuous to instead look for the good in others until they prove us otherwise.
I reject this way of thinking in its entirety and so should you.
Not to mention the plethera of unsupported premises that he states. Sorry, but just b/c you can say something doesn't make it one bit more true.
@LetReasonPrevail1 The Bible does indeed state that God sees Jesus as a mass of sinfulness (at least when he bore the sins of mankind -- or the elect, as the doctrine of limited atonement states).
II Cor 5:18 "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."
Jn 1:29 "The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." In the margins, it says: taketh away: or, beareth -- ie. Jesus bears the sins of the world.
@LetReasonPrevail1 But actually, you hit the nail right on the head -- it *IS* horrible to look at someone like that -- especially when he did no wrong! But God looks at him as if He (God) were looking at me... and I do know deep in my heart that I am a mass/mess of sinfulness. :)
The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ... Hallelujah!
Hi there. I'm not looking for a heated argument as you see all over youtube, i just want to ask where in scripture it says or points to Jesus causing everyone to be saved? I have heard a few ppl say this but i have not seen it in scripture. I think we should always be in the pursuit of the truth in the Word. I am just in pursuit of truth so please dont think im out to get to get you. Thanks, Liz.
Reneration justice is not for the present body to be glorified.The new Nature of Christ makes just by new birth becoming a new creation.The body of man and his mind is never made just.
RE: 4:31-5:27 I need a source on why it's a real transfer and not a legal fiction. Is Sproul saying that this is more than a mere declaration of imputation? I don't follow. I thought it was declared based on God's authority, and if declared, then real. What?
@theawakener7 if you dont believe that we can either accept or reject Gods salvation.... when God calls us... then you are left with the idea that God forces us all to salvation.... and that aint right...
by the look of what you have said you dont fully understand the bible.... jesus came and died for us all... jesus has made the way back to God for all mankind...
the bible states that God is reaching out to us through the holy spirit... God didnt make a mistake ...and satan doesnt win in the end... jesus has the keys of hell and death... so jesus has won the vistory..
We can only enter heaven if we live in holiness. But living in holiness on our own is impossible. But through Gods Grace we can live in holiness. Jesus death on the cross justified us before God. Once justified, we can receive Gods fullness of grace through the Holy Spirit who transforms our hearts of stone to hearts of flesh. Our hearts of flesh allow us to live in holiness, which allow us entrance into heaven. May the Holy Spirit lead us to all truth and sanctify us for our salvation.
Please know that a person who seeks salvation needs first to repent (the changing of mind), confession of being a sinner who needs a savior, and receiving Christ as Savior and Lord.
After this, the new believer SHOULD study the Bible and its doctrines, including the doctrine of election.
We never cease and desist from confessing our sins (James 5; 1 John 1:9) this side of The Day.
The idiot -- the fool -- is the one who will not receive Christ's gift. Knowing that you will be held accountable for your actions and words, why would you NOT confess your need for a savior? The closer I get to middle age, the more I see the frailties and evils in my fellow
humans -- including my girlfriend and my own self -- and the more thankful I am to God for His love and mercy. The first step is NOT to worry about being "elect". If you want to be right with God, 1st step is repent. :)
up until 4.31 this man taught without implicating the catholic church until he hit a brick wall. now for him to get out of the mess he found himself into, he has to transfer the blame to rome.why don't u guys just ever teach wihtout meaning the catholic church? we as catholics do teach based on scripture and not martin luther. in any case you lot have no choice but but talk rome for thats where you came from
I will say that I've always been impressed by your faith -- you always speak as if you have no doubt that all these things exist. You also seem well-educated, and apparently enjoy many other blessings, like 3 squares a day and much more you may take for granted... yet all delivered to you ultimately by a God you hate...who doesn't necessarily hate you despite that. I used to be like you too, till I read the New Testament without a made-up mind. It's not easy to understand, but try.Tx 4 listening
You're right - God predestines some to Hell by letting them follow their free will -- and some to Heaven by over-riding our natural, God-hating free-will (ie, we'd all normally rather go to Hell than love God back). But both groups have no choice in the matter. So actually, if you are chosen, God can and will change your will... it is explained in Romans 9 kinda beginning about vs 10, but clearer as it goes on till vs 25. Complex, so best to get a modern English version, eg, online Living or NIV
"The natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit, for to him they are foolishness; he is not able to know them, for they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:14
Dear friend, I pray God opens your spiritual eyes to understand... don't listen with a closed mind. God loves you infinitely, the Bible is clear.
What does =/= mean? Are you saying "Disobedience doesn't equal sin"? If so then how so? (please note, this response is ending with the same unanswered question my last response ended with)
apparently it created either directly or foreseeably Indirectly. If you had all of eternity to make something wouldn't you want to make it flawless? Why be in a rush to finish your "greatest creation"? why would he create sin?
Hey,god told me yesterday that you all must send me $1000 each to be saved.he say that's the only way he's coming back. hurry up, god say it.you all must believe me! he say he ain't coming back till i have a million dollar of devotee money!
I'm the Messiah! According to God, we are all sinners, and the penalty is eternal death! The great news is God loves me so you must love me too! Admit your sin to me and ask me for forgiveness. Believe in and receive me as LORD of your life and as Savior.
I'm translating this video to latin america, but i've got a problem. I don't understand what he says in 0:57 : "or to the scapegoat who's to go out into the ............ again later on".
Reconsider translating this video. Our Faith and our works contribute to our justification. James 2:24 we are justified by works an d not by faith alone. Hebrews 5:9 salvation is for thos who OBEY. 1 John 1:7 if we walk in the light our sins will be forgiven and our sins will be cleansed from us.
Grace is free, my friend. Nobody gets into heaven because they are obedient, we get into heaven because we were purchased by the blood of Christ. You are talking about a works salvation, which simply isn't Biblical.
"For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."
I do not believe in works salvation. I believe we are saved by the grace of Jesus. (Act 15:11) and justified by works and not by faith alone. (James 2:24) The works referred to in Ephesians 2:8-9 is the Judaic Works, like circumcission; not the moral law, like the ten commandments. Heb5:9 salvation is for those who OBEY Jesus. God bless you. May the Holy Spirti bring us to all truth. Amen
The bible says that NO ONE will be justified by the law (Romans 3:20), and that we are justified by faith WITHOUT the deeds of the law (Romans 3:28). Jam 2:24 is talking about being justified by men, not God. Read the context when it says "SHOW me your faith w/o works, and I will SHOW you my faith BY my works (Jam 2:18)." Jam 2:24 is about using works to SHOW you're faith is truly legit, its not saying that God counts us righteous based on certain works we do.
The debt is paid, with Christ bearing the sins, but our account is still a zero-balance with regard to the REQUIRED righteousness needed to enter heaven---- so, righteousness IMPUTED-----> transferred to our "account" so that we are just...important you guys,
I apollogize for my low english level... I speak spanish (i'm from Chile, south america) and sometimes i cannot express ideas as i want. I hope sincerely that what i've stated here have been understood by you...
Yo tambien soy de Chile. Puedo leer ingles pero escribo y entiendo muy poco cuando hablan... he leido varios libros de R.C. , un par en ingles... me encanta RC Sproul... porque alguien no intenta traducir el video
I believe God nails Jesus Christ couple thousand times, Jesus would be our savior. You know to avoid unjust taxation, you know unjust wars. Take a look of the religion/war history, gods are still just man-made concept only. Nobody understands what safe means when they need to think to obtain one. Bye you self made Jewish.
"One of those listening was a woman named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth from the city of Thyatira, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul's message" (Acts 16:14).
Could she resist such a thing?
Anyway, human responsability is also clear in the Bible (in example Jn. 1:12), with the clarifications pointed out by Skalapunk.
2Tim.2-12:13 "It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we DENY him, he also will DENY us"
"We" means us believers, faithful cristians,
Your doctrine says It is imposible to deny Chris after you are justified or "born again" if u denied him, you were never justified.
The Bible and the Church says that YES, take care of your soul because you can deny Him because we are still sinners
We don't say that christians don't fall. Rather, we say that justified person will not perish with the world, because it is a pledge of God: "he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus" (Phil.1:6).
Apart from that, you must remember that epistles contain many times warnings to unbelievers which attend church, because it was perfectly possible that many people socalled christian were actually not justified persons.
You said that because you believe a Believer is already saved, and there is nothing to be worried about his salvation, it is done, but warnings are for us, to take care because satan is working in the other side trying to kill us, make us lose our salvation.
"Timothy must teach to congregation what is contained in the epistle"
Epistles were important, but they live by tradition, receive and give, epistles were not scriptured yet, for 400 years
Paul says: 1Cor9:27 "No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize."
Redemption is different than Salvation, Redemption is FREE given trough Christ for ALL mankind,(God´s creatures) and salvation (race) is the way we obtain this Redemption,
We believe and trust completely in Christ, but we don´t trust ourselves as Paul in 1Cor 9:27 that I quoted.
That verse is not about salvation: Paul is talking about service at ministry. The greek word used here is "adokimos", which means "non-aproved", For what? to serve as an apostle. Besides, "prize" is not salvation, but a reward for services rended, which is totally diferent.
Precisely because we trust Christ and don't trust ourselves; we believe that salvation is assured: Salvation is a supernatural work of God in us. Don't mistake it for sanctification, which is diferent from the former.
Paul is talking about a race we are running, we must get to the end, He IS talking about our salvation, read the chapter, "non-aproved" Our reward (prize) is "Eternal Life"
Precisely, the chapter deals with the ministry. Paul talks the whole chapter about his service as apostle, and the completion is the verse which you quoted. Therefore, he points out the importance of discipline in ministry.
that´s your interpretation, because if you take it the way it is written, you will need to agree it is about salvation, and it will contradict your doctrine, that´s why you need to interprate it in the way it agrees with you,!
Please read the passage, where Paul talks about is ministry as apostle. The verse which you quoted was written in that context, don't twist it.
Besides, if we are saved by grace (or mercy), then why do we need good works? In other words, Why have God to be mercy, if our good works have the power to please him? If you are right, is our justice what let us get to heaven, and not the mercy of the Lord. Moreover, your vision ignores totally the work of the Holy Spirit in us.
We do good works because Jesus said we must do. "come to me...I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink" "Depart from me...I was thirsty, and ye gave me NO drink" The "prize" the Whole Bible, Jesus, Paul always talked about, is "Eternal Life", not in this world but in the one to come.
It is the Mercy of God that saves us because He sees at our "good works" and at our faith trough His ayes of mercy and not in their perfection..
The key word is in verse 37: "the righteous". How are you justified according to the Bible? Let the Bible speak: "having been justified by faith" (Ro. 5:1). Jesus is talking about those who were justified by faith, and therefore bore the fruit of a good tree. They showed their faith through their works, and weren't afraid of death when they had to help their brothers (that Jesus identify with himself). This verse talks about those who were pursued because of their faith.
I agree with all what you've said. And exactly: we need good works, but not in order to be saved. We need them in sanctification, as a fruit. We are new creatures if we are in Christ, and then we've to bear a different fruit. A carnal tree will bear a carnal fruit, and a spiritual tree will bear a spiritual fruit (good works). We do good works because our essence has been transformed: we are no longer dead, but now alive in Christ Jesus.
I agree with you, we need fruits, but as an evidence. You know the tree by the fruit that it bear, but what is relevant is the nature of the tree, and not the fruit borne. The latter is relevant only to "show" (evidence) the nature of the tree, and doesn't add it anything.
Besides, James is talking about the evidence of faith. The key phrase is "I will show you my faith by my works" (2:18). He's attacking a special sort of faith (see the phrase "that faith" in v. 14).
By the way, the sort of faith which James criticize is the faith held by demons (2:19), and obviously "that faith" (v.14) can't justify anybody. Therefore, James is describing the genuine faith, from an external view. Externally, faith needs good works to show itself, but God knows about the existance of faith before it can be showed, thus the justification is by faith, before than the fruits.
Yes, "we need fruits" The Faith the bible tells us, is the Faith in Jesus, a Christian Faith and it is given by the Holy Spirit, He can´t give you a faith of demons,neither the demons can give you faith.
For this faith to be alively faith, we need good works,(fruits) the fruits MAKE the faith alive in us rather than just SHOW
Just as Jesus said, "if you Love me, keep my commandments","He that keep my commandments is the one who loves me"
We are Justified by Grace, and just as you need faith to be saved, you also need good works, you can´t omit any of them, both of them are part of our justification, not to put God in debt, but to show Him we love and care for Him, not to show others, keeping Jesus commandments is the way to Love God.
Both, living faith and good works are NECESARY evidence of the source of our new nature in Christ
I understand and agree with most of what you said, i just explained the difference
"27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law."
That´s Catholic teaching my friend, you don´t read the Church doctrine I see.
"Law of Works" "works of the law" refers to Moses´s Laws. The Old testament, There are more than 600 rules in Jews you have to fulfill in order to get salvation, but now, is by Believing in Jesus (Faith), that HE has the perfect law, but belive in what? believe in what He said, to love each other, to love our enemies, that´s the way you belong to Christ; doing what He said.Lots of things He told us to do.
As I said, Redemption is different than Salvation, sanctification is an important part of the process of salvation to abtain redemption that is for free.
Example, If someone from europe left you in his will 100 million $ when he died, completely for FREE, it is yours, (redemption) does that mean you don´t have to do anything ? No, now you need go to europe to ask for it, (process of salvation) receive a check (the gospel) endorse it (live by the gospel) then u will obtain the FREE gift
Well, in law the money is yours, it has entered to your patrimony. Actually you haven´t to do anything to get something which is yours already. It's a bad illustration, and it demonstrate that distinction between redemtion and salvation is equivocal.
Salvation is a gift of God, completely for free (Eph. 2:8). We are saved "to do" good works (v.10), and not "by" good works(v.9). Thus, good works are the EVIDENCE of salvation, and not its cause.
umm, well, again you didnt get my point, if you don´t go ask for the money my friend, it will never be yours.
Second, I havent say "good works" are the cause of salvation, not even faith is the cause of our salvation, but the MERCY of God
God is Judge, what He will judge? "come to me... I was hungry, you feed me, thirsty you gave me to drink, naked, you clothed me." I don´t think there is something clearer than that passage
Above all, is Charity, (the Love that Acts) "good works" is not only evidence, because we are being transform.
We do good works because those are Jesus´s commandments, being real disciples of Jesus,
God sees to our "good works" and "Faith" throug his eyes of Mercy, and It is His Grace that saved us,
We agree, salvation is a free gift from God, but you need ask for it, and if you want it more theological, understand then the "Fall" of Adam and Eve and see why it is a free gift
AlexFigueroa-Thankyou for rightly dividing the word. I thank you for your clear and biblical comments such as--(Salvation is a gift of God, completely for free (Eph. 2:8). We are saved "to do" good works (v.10), and not "by" good works(v.9). Thus, good works are the EVIDENCE of salvation, and not its cause.) May the Holy Spirit plant this in every heart that reads it! May HE empower you to continue speaking the truth in love.
O my dear brother in Christ, praised be the Lord. I'm glad to see that God is working in our hearts, and He'll be faithful tu accomplish such work. I'm quite grateful by your words, may the Lord grant us discernment and wisdom, and let him reveal his Holy Son to us.
I agree with this video with the exception of one "fine" adjustment - which I believe to be of utmost importance in the presentation of this truth. We have been given the righteousness of God, not Christ.
2 Cor 5:21 - this may sound like a technicality (and it is)but God is the prime mover in Salvation. Jesus is the Lamb of God, not man. God is bringing many sons unto Glory.
While some may say that Jesus is God (and he is) but this distinction is critical.
those who accept Christ are elect, those who do not are not. Free will is exercised. I will wait to find out why God chose to choose some to be His. I accept by faith now, seeing through a glass darkly, but one day face to face, I will ask IF it is in me to ask. But I doubt it.
Security of the believer is the outgrowth of being one of the elect. So is the finality of Salvation. Rewards ARE a different matter. They can be lost.
Kindom of heaven is with us,, and requires from us to keep Jesus´s commandments, the Kindom of Heaven is a Kindom of Love, YOU Can´t put a Limit to the Love of God, It has not limits, The security we have in Cristh is in keeping His commandments, that´s what will shows Jesus we Love Him.
One of His commandments is to preach His gospel to ALL creatures, because salvation is for EVERYONE. The reward is Eternal Life, not matter if you work one day or 100 days, Love is what matters
This is an over simplification of the truth. The fact remains that election is true, because God says it is. He has given us ample examples of this in the scripture. It only remains for us to understand what He is talking about. The honest heart knows that it did not make itself believe. God started with dead people and He quickens whom "He" would quicken. The charge of knowing who these individuals are has not been given to men, God has the productive "will"
Our salvation is not hanging in limbo, the Spirit makes it clear to us. In the faith we receive from God, our faithfulness to the Lord and in our God consciousness, our hatred of sin that so easily besets us, but most importantly, by God's clear hand in our life (Heb.6:11; 10:22; Jude 1 AND ALL HIS WORD).
1Timothy 4:16 "Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both SAVE thyself, and them that hear thee."
Of course we have God´s hand in our life, because we are His sons, and He wants for me to enter heaven because Jesus already Opened the gates of Heaven for me and for all those who want to enter.
So, about the Elect ones, I can work and praise God my whole life, but at the End, I can find out I was not elect, I´m going to Hell..??? That´s horrible to live like that,,!!
The fact you believe and praise God all your life is a proof of your election. Every single one elected will believe in the time of his life. And will love God and live in faith the rest of his life.
Election brings certain actions into the life - the moment of being born again according to God's will. It is not passive election which affects you after your death. It is something that sets your life on the path God foreordained.
No he doesn't. He wills his elect to be saved. No, we do not have free will for it would require another working force with God's essence. You simply do not understand what does it mean that God is the only creative power and what is the relationship between creation and creator.
Paul understood sovereignty of God as a reason for working hard. He says that we are to work out the salvation for it is God who works in us BOTH TO WILL and to work for his purpose.
explaining it (the meaning of God being the only creator and the highest authority) takes about an hour. It is impossible to do that here. I would advise reading 'God and evil: the problem solved' by Gordon H. Clark - a good start for meditations.
* some explanation: God does not WILL all man to be saved, but he takes not pleasure in the destruction of the wicked. He calls all to repent which is a revelation of what is good and perfect. But in his will and purpose he does not save everyone (hidden will/decrees). Which is clearly stated in Romans 9.
so, God doesn´t want ALL man to be saved. and We don´t have free will. I can´t believe that!! The God I know YES wants ALL man to be saved and He does not need to take away your free will, so you can believe in Him, He still gives you free will and control you life perfectly, that is the power of God, the God I know.
Creator and creation, doesn´t ALL men are creation of God, so ALL are His sons right?
are sons of God I think we all can be saved, that is God´s justice, He is Just.
We can not put a limit to the power and Love of God because of how we interprate His word, He doesn´t have limits
One of the biggest problem I see with you is that you try to understand Jesus (God) trough Paul, that´s why you misinterprate the text, when really you need to interprate Paul trough Jesus (God) then you will understand the Text
Jesus died for nothing if God doen´t want all man to be saved
Jesus died for his people and he brings his people to the Father.
I did not take this theology from Paul, I took it from Genesis 1-3, Isaiah 10, 40, 46, Psalm 105, Psalm 33, the Gospel of Luke, and MANY more. Paul just confirmed it.
Your problem is that you look at people and create one just much better and more powerful. What you should do is look at God as he described himself and think what does it mean concerning people.
no, not ALL man are his sons. All are his creation and therefore as a creation have no power to support themselves nor create.
Free will? You still do not understand what does ONLY Creator means. It means there is no other force to create nor sustain the creation and the creator MUST will something for it to happened. Nothing apart of this rule takes place. He cannot allow anything because allowance require another creative force.
Who is free? is it the one who is "the servant" of sin? a servant is not free, except to do the will of the master. Who then is free? Christ said that those who He freed were free indeed! but that freedom is not independent from abiding in "HIM". God has given us an example of those He saved from Egypt and afterward He destroyed those who did not believe. God cannot lie, He is always doing the things that are right.
2. No philosophical nor logical basis for free will - in accordance to God's sovereignty
3. The Free Will theory was created to solve the problems people could not comprehend (usually because of lack of knowledge on Scripture)
4. Start doing research on your own instead of just listening to all that seems logical - that is how I got freed from being Arminian (I was raised as one).
"God's sovereignty" for God to be Sovereign, you need to take out "free will" from the picture? so he can be sovereign?, the real sovereignty of God is that He gives you the option to decide for Crist (free will) or to deny Him, and He stills control your life, that´s being Sovereign.
Common sence, you always have the option to received the Grace or to reject it, that´s the free will God has given you.
you see that trough the whole Old Testament, read it.
O man! 1. Which part of 'God cannot deny himself' is confusing. He cannot deny his sovreignty by subjescting to human decision.
2. You still do not get what does it mean that God is the only creator and that only he is good. Nothing can happen (along with our will and desires) if God does not will it. Irt is not about allowing something to happen. God must will everything. And the fact of the fall proves that only God is good and if he takes away the grace given before one turns wicked.
No point going beyond 13 seconds.
Little children, let no one deceive you, He who does what is righteous IS righteous just as he is righteous.
1 John 3:7
StringPlunker 2 weeks ago
For James 2:24 "You see that a person is justified by what he DOES and not by faith alone."
MarkfromAustralia 3 weeks ago
This is a legal fiction.
God is someone who can neither deceive nor be deceived.
He certainly doesnt deceive himself
Christ died for us, we need to die to ourselves ( & sin ) and live for God, through Gods grace. So the work of Gods salvation - is wrought in us.
We need to do this to such an extent that we can say with St Paul in Galatians 2:20 "I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me"
MarkfromAustralia 3 weeks ago
Remember the Council of Nicaea 325
A.D. well hear what's up!!!
The Zionist will no longer rule over us with there iron fist, it is no longer The Jesus of faith It is now the Jesus of Faith & Gnosis!!!
The reason why this is is because we know the symbol-order & name of the next Pope, Peter The Roman!!! Who was to feed his flock to the wolve's, just as st.Malachy said if you know ahead of time that politial agenda can be prevented!!!
oshowrld 3 months ago
#1-agenda 21
#2-builderburg20 11 c o m
#3-Read The Art Of War
& then Unity Consciousness & no uprore!!!
oshowrld 3 months ago
@polopowers1 Christ's flesh was not made sin by the Holy Spirit in Mary's womb. Neither did Christ's flesh become mystically; sin. If He was sin He would have corrubted in the grave He was accepted atonement without blemish at death. He appeased. Made has no application to becoming.Also sin can mean offense (hamartema) not hamrtano to miss the mark. He who knew no offense became an offense for us not literal sin. I'm totally free from law. God is not law but perpetual Virtue in Holy Character
polopowers1 4 months ago
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polopowers1 4 months ago
@polopowers1 He became a actual curse for us, He was made sin who knew no sin that we might be made the rightousness of God 2 cor 5 :21 read romans 5:15 end of chapter, very good reading
blessedwithoutmeasur 4 months ago
It is not the sin transferred it is the sins judgment. Christ was never " touched with sin "the exceeding righteousness is Christ death. We are made new creations in Christ declared rightious by the new Nature we become.I have no physical righteousness in my flesh. I'm righteouss by the new creation I am not becoming. It is not inside or upon but rather the nature of new creations born again.The trouble believers get into is where is this righteousness but its all that I am as a new creation.
polopowers1 5 months ago
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HDell1994 5 months ago
to him that worketh not but believeth on him that justifies the ungodly ...HIS FAITH IS COUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS...........right back at ya......
jonniec7 6 months ago
Each of us will be judged according to our own faith, the faith of another will not be credited to anyone. It was Abraham's own faith which God regarded as righteous, even though he was not perfect. Trusting God (which is Biblical faith) is always pleasing to God. Imputed righteousness is an evil, false and unjust doctrine.
BBBradH 6 months ago
I've had to do a lot of "un-learning" of these doctrines.
How can a man be declared just when he's not just? One word: FORGIVENESS
Oh, you don't think it's forgiveness?
The only place where "imputed righteousness" is listed like that is by Paul who, when he says it, makes a reference to David talking about it, where David is talking about God forgiving people.
"Imputed" simply means "reckoned", not TRANSFERED. We are accounted as righteous because our sin is forgiven - we are treated like...
krononomikon 7 months ago
@krononomikon ...we are therefore treated as though we did nothing wrong (accounted righteous) even though we were unrighteous, because God has forgiven us. "Love holds no record of wrongs".
Still not convinced? If Jesus' actual righteousness is transferred to us, then why does John say, "DO NOT BE DECEIVED, CHILDREN: whoever PRACTICES righteousness IS righteous, just as HE (Jesus) is righteous"? Also, why does Jesus say we will be forgiven IF we forgive others? Recall the 10 lepers story...
krononomikon 7 months ago
@krononomikon ...Recall the 10 lepers story and the story of the sinful woman forgiven to realize what God is seeking and what "becoming the righteousness of God" is. Of the 10 lepers, only one returned and glorified God! The woman who was forgiven, she loved because Jesus loved her first (and forgave her). That's why John also says, "not that we loved Him, but He loved us and gave His life for us". So we are affected by God's love in Christ unto the renewing of our minds to be like Him.
krononomikon 7 months ago
Tremendo mensaje!
AndrewBarria20 9 months ago
An oldie but a goodie. If it anit broke don't fix it.
preachinshawn 9 months ago
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16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” 17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.” 18 “Which ones?” he inquired. Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[c] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’
J10ery 10 months ago
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The pope is the anti christ he is the only power in the history of the human race that came out of the divided roman empire after its collapse that destroyed 3 of the original ten kingdoms which came out of the divided roman empire that changed the sabbath day from saturday to sunday that killed millions of christians in the inqustion and that called himself the substitute of jesus. jesus SAID said will put his false servant the anti christ in the christian church and surley the pope is 666
vladimirkovalski 10 months ago
How can someone dislike this video? are you sick?
DonJay777 10 months ago
Thank you ... very ... much..!!
thank you ... Lord Jesus ... for Mercy and Grace
WMsReligion 10 months ago
Jesus is future king of earth
bass109 11 months ago 2
love it.... so biblical.. so reasonable....
epistemaniac 1 year ago
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him. II Corinthians 5:21 Very good video. Sadly, I don't hear much on this subject.
foxbiter 1 year ago
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For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him. II Corinthians 5:21
foxbiter 1 year ago
Where can we find in the scripture that the sins of men are transfered in Christ Jesus? The real "word" for that is "bear or bore" .
let's read 1 Peter 2:24 He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.” Peter said that.
The guy on the video is wrong when he used the word "transfered". If the sins are transfered then the logical conclusion is Jesus is a sinner to.
minescore 1 year ago
@minescore You're absolutely right! And this is one reason why narrow is the way and CONSTRICTING is the path that leads to life, and for that reason, few find it. Because it's a difficult road to conform to Him. Yet, by His love that He loved us with, we CAN have our consciences cleansed and die to sins and live for righteousness! :)
But think: this man is a fairly-renowned theologian, and he is still making errors. Just a little yeast can leaven the whole lump! God let us weigh it heavily!
krononomikon 7 months ago
5 people are Armenians...such a shame.
Hugh33h 1 year ago
They overcame the beast by the word of THEIR testimony.
biblejournal 1 year ago
The problem is whether or not imputed righteous quantitative so that Christians live holy lives instead of sinful lives. Imputed is not imputed if it isn't imputed on us in our behavior and way of life. Imputation is not imputed if it is only a theory.
biblejournal 1 year ago
@biblejournal i see what your saying... but isn't that where sanctification comes to play? I mean... as soon as I am born again, I do not instantly live a sinless life. Though true salvation does bear righteous fruit and a distaste for sin and a desire towards righteous living.
kreendurron 1 year ago
@biblejournal Imputation means reckoning or accounting in early modern english. We really need to start giving people the NKJVs instead of tolerating the original KJVs. There's nothing more holy about early modern english, and it makes a lot of confusion. Being forgiven is being accounted righteous, because we're treated as though we have not sinned when we have; love keeps no record of wrongs. God is rich in mercy! His mercy is enough to fill the universe, and God loved us in Jesus first :)
krononomikon 7 months ago
It is nice to hear Dr. Sproul again.
theflarpus 1 year ago
Great Explanation from one of my favorite Reformed preachers R.C. Sproul Reading A book he wrote now about the Cross of Christ. God Bless!
Bearkiller777 1 year ago
@Bearkiller777 Solid teaching isn't it?
UnrealHelix 1 year ago
@UnrealHelix yes it is very solid teaching actually very much so. God Bless
Bearkiller777 1 year ago
Note: He says "concept of imputation". Imputed righteousness is a theory of soteriology, not from scripture. Study to see if these things are true before you accept the authority of great teachers over the Bible. Notice how he hardly quotes any scripture, he's just explaining his theory without looking at the text in the Bible.
harmono 1 year ago
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AvadaKedavra1138 1 year ago
If the sinfulness of every human being was laid on Christ's shoulders, and that part of the imputation is sufficient to avoid hell, it follows inescapably from R.C.'s own argument that no one will be sent to hell as a punishment.
AvadaKedavra1138 1 year ago
@AvadaKedavra1138 Well since this seems to be merely a short clip from a longer presentation, it is likely you're taking this out of context. Your question is a good one, "Did Christ die for everyone? Is his atonement effectual for all?" Such questions are addressed in something known as the doctrine of limited atonement. Essentially what it boils down to is that Christ died and rose to save all those that believe in him and repent.
yobosayo227 1 year ago
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@yobosayo227 The problem with the doctrine of limited atonement, at least for anyone who defends inerrancy, is that Paul explicitly repudiates it in at least two places. In two separate places, he makes a direct analogy between original sin (which impacts everyone), and the atonement. He says that JUST AS original sin condemned all, SO the atonement provides life for all. The analogy between the two could not be clearer.
AvadaKedavra1138 1 year ago
@yobosayo227
Actually, Christ died and rose to save the WHOLE human race, the whole human family. This is called "legal justification". In Adam, we all sinned, In Christ, ALL men were justified legally, but In Christ. This is the "In-Christ-Motif". He did not die for only those who believe. Christ ransomed the entire human family at His death In Christ, now that righteousness of Christ is imputed upon those who accept it. The gift is there, but we must take a hold of it. Romans 5:6-18 (esp. 18)
Lysimachus78 1 year ago
@Lysimachus78 I agree Christ died for the whole human race, but his atonement is not effectual for all. "Legal justification" means God declares a wicked person just before Himself. The wicked creature isn't instantly made just, but is forensically declared so. To say that the whole human race is legally justified is to state the whole human race is pardoned by God. Additionally the question must be asked "How can God justify a wicked man and be just Himself?"
yobosayo227 1 year ago
"Legal Justification" does not declare the wicked righteous. Legal Justification is "In Christ", not in the individual. Every wicked person has been given the gift. It is now for them to simply take hold of it & act upon it. This brings tears to the eyes of many once they r able to understand the significance of what Christ did for them. Remember, if ALL men were condemned IN ADAM, & Christ is the Second Adam, the reverse is true. ALL were legally ransomed. Now it's just for them to accept it.
Lysimachus78 1 year ago
@Lysimachus78 The only provision to the above question is an alien righteousness forensically counted as ours (imputed righteousness of Christ). Thus, the only way a person is legally justified is to have Christ's righteousness imputed to him. Additionally, please also observe Rom5:19 as it parallels v18. The former declares Christ died for "all men" while the latter states it was for "the many." This is similar to Jesus' words in Matt20:28.
yobosayo227 1 year ago
@yobosayo
My father, who is a a minister, &my family, r full supporters of the 1888 message. While Rom 5:18 says "for many", this term is another term for "all". Compare with Matthew 26:28. Was Christ's blood shed only for believers? Of course not. It was a LOT more than just "dying".Notice: "For there is one God, and one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a RANSOM FOR ALL." 1 Tim 2:5,6. This is the message that Adventists have rejected in Waggoner and Jones.
Lysimachus78 1 year ago
@Lysimachus78 Is everyone saved from condemnation? Certainly not. It is quite plain many people reject God and thus are condemned to hell. Thus, how can God's ransom for all men be effectual for all men? I do not deny Christ was set forth as an atonement which is available for all men, but his atonement is not applied to all men (those who reject God). As further evidence for "the many" not referring to "the all" please continue on to the next post.
yobosayo227 1 year ago
@yo
The Greek for "the many", is exactly that. "The many". And "The Many", means, "ALL". Christ's blood was shed for the human race, not just the elect. Calvinists use this argument all the time. & even ARMENIANS have to argue back by proving that "the many" means "all". But suddenly, when it comes to the 1888 message, they conveniently switch gears to try and prove that "the many" does not mean all. The only way to believe that "the many" does not mean "all", you have to become a Calvinist.
Lysimachus78 1 year ago
@Lysimachus78 Jesus saves his people from their sins (Matt1:21). This begs the question "Who are his people? Does this include the whole human race or not?" To see a clear answer, look to Jesus analogy of being the Good Shepherd in John 10:25-30. Jesus tells a group of people they do not believe in him because they are not his sheep, not part of his flock (v26). Rather, his sheep are those who hear his voice and follow him(27). It is to these that are granted eternal life (v28)
yobosayo227 1 year ago
@yo
You are simply not grasping what we are saying! It's not sinking in, this is your problem. You're not grasping what the 1888 message is all about, that's why you keep rejecting what I'm saying. It requires many books, and MANY sermons in order to grasp its depth. You're looking at it superficially, without really knowing what you are refuting.
Lysimachus78 1 year ago
@yobosayo227
You are obviously missing the big picture. Nobody doubts that God saves only his sheep who follow Him. One would have to be a Universalist to deny this fact. I have not once asserted that the whole world is His flock! You're missing the magnitude of Christ's sacrifice. Even if the WHOLE world lived a life of righteousness, His sacrifice would still be required. In Adam, ALL (even the righteous!) were condemned! You are missing the picture!
Lysimachus78 1 year ago
@Lysimachus78 Friend the problem is the fallacy of equivocation. You're using classical, orthodox Christian terms and are redefining/misusing them (i.e. legal justification, ransom/redemption, etc). Because of this, no rational discourse is possible. One last side comment, please be careful when analyzing the greek text. It is easy to commit the simplest hermeneutical fallacy of relying on lexical definitions to interpret a passage. The context & grammar is critical to understanding.
yobosayo227 1 year ago
@yobosayo227 Please note the last sentence is suppose to be "The context & grammar are critical to understanding." Funny I should insert a grammatical mistake in that sentence :p
yobosayo227 1 year ago
@yobosayo
Thank you for replying. However, you have still not responded to my question. What theological persuasion do you subscribe to? Adventism? Calvinism? Who am I dealing with here? ;) It is possible that we both agree, yet are getting caught up in semantics and phraseology.
Lysimachus78 1 year ago
@Lysimachus78 I apologize, my last three posts were meant to be in succession, but I replied to your different posts on accident. Please note my first response comes after your comment which starts "Notice what EGW states..."
yobosayo227 1 year ago
@yo
I will respond to u later, but I will say one thing. It blows my mind how u cannot see the beauty of the 1888 message. EGW called it "a most precious message". Have u read all the statements from Waggoner & Jones? Their sermons? Clearly, they emphasized over & over that the whole race had been legally justified in Christ, & Ellen White ENDORSED these statements. U have a problem now, unless, of course, u reject EGW. Sadly, the Latter Rain cannot fall until this message is accepted, fully.
Lysimachus78 1 year ago
@yobosayo227
You are a Seventh-Day Adventists I'm assuming, right?
Lysimachus78 1 year ago
Notice what EGW states:
"He was represented through the sacrificial offerings until He came to our world. Here Christ offers this prayer, and what does it say to us? The HUMAN RACE IS ACCEPTED IN THE BELOVED. His long human arm ENCIRCLES THE RACE, while with His divine arm He grasps the throne of the Infinite, and He opens to man ALL all of heaven. The gates are ajar today. Christ is in the heavenly sanctuary and your prayers can go up to the Father." (1888 Materials, pg. 124)
Lysimachus78 1 year ago
@Lysimachus78 Please note 1Cor1:30 which is the clearest example I know of to describe what it means to be "in Christ." It is an act of God ("by Him" or "from Him") in which Christ becomes one's righteousness. The whole act of being in Christ means his righteousness is counted as belonging to the believer. Thus, it is impossible to be "in Christ" yet without his righteousness imputed. Also note, in terms of reconciling "many" with "all." Does "many" necessitate "all"? Certainly not.
yobosayo227 1 year ago
There is a difference between being In Christ as an individual, & Legally Being in Christ, in the sense of the ransom being paid for all. We have ALL been "bought with a price". Now it's those who accept it that receive Christ's righteousness, but that righteousness is already theirs legally. You cannot deny the plain and simple meaning of Romans 5 and 1 Timothy 2:5,6.
The Calvinists use the SAME argument as u are about the word "many", proving that Christ died only for the "elect".
Lysimachus78 1 year ago
"god sees jesus as a mass of sinfulness"
What a horrible way to look at a person. In the real world we consider it virtuous to instead look for the good in others until they prove us otherwise.
I reject this way of thinking in its entirety and so should you.
Not to mention the plethera of unsupported premises that he states. Sorry, but just b/c you can say something doesn't make it one bit more true.
LetReasonPrevail1 1 year ago
@LetReasonPrevail1 The Bible does indeed state that God sees Jesus as a mass of sinfulness (at least when he bore the sins of mankind -- or the elect, as the doctrine of limited atonement states).
pcncvl 1 year ago
@LetReasonPrevail1
II Cor 5:18 "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."
Jn 1:29 "The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." In the margins, it says: taketh away: or, beareth -- ie. Jesus bears the sins of the world.
pcncvl 1 year ago
@LetReasonPrevail1 But actually, you hit the nail right on the head -- it *IS* horrible to look at someone like that -- especially when he did no wrong! But God looks at him as if He (God) were looking at me... and I do know deep in my heart that I am a mass/mess of sinfulness. :)
pcncvl 1 year ago
The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ... Hallelujah!
belovedsonofabba 1 year ago
Hi there. I'm not looking for a heated argument as you see all over youtube, i just want to ask where in scripture it says or points to Jesus causing everyone to be saved? I have heard a few ppl say this but i have not seen it in scripture. I think we should always be in the pursuit of the truth in the Word. I am just in pursuit of truth so please dont think im out to get to get you. Thanks, Liz.
ekb1f 1 year ago
There is nothing of the flesh to be glorified nor of the mind (brain) All that will be glorified is spirit not flesh.
polopowers1 1 year ago
The righteousness of Christ is not transformed to me but to my new Nature which is given me in Christ.
polopowers1 2 years ago
Reneration justice is not for the present body to be glorified.The new Nature of Christ makes just by new birth becoming a new creation.The body of man and his mind is never made just.
polopowers1 2 years ago
RE: 4:31-5:27 I need a source on why it's a real transfer and not a legal fiction. Is Sproul saying that this is more than a mere declaration of imputation? I don't follow. I thought it was declared based on God's authority, and if declared, then real. What?
Paulomycin 2 years ago
must say - spot on
loudmouthspeaker 2 years ago 4
@theawakener7 if you dont believe that we can either accept or reject Gods salvation.... when God calls us... then you are left with the idea that God forces us all to salvation.... and that aint right...
so again whats your point
loudmouthspeaker 2 years ago
@theawakener7 didnt peter deny jesus 3 times... didnt judas dob in Jesus.... we can choose to accept Gods free gift of salvation or reject it..
Jesus has victory over death... so whats your problem....seems you may need to look further
loudmouthspeaker 2 years ago
i am saying that God has made the way for all mankind to come to salvation...
God is reaching out to us as well to repent and come to God...
its up to us to act apon Gods call in our life... we can either repent and turn to God or reject Gods call... wha will you do?
loudmouthspeaker 2 years ago
by the look of what you have said you dont fully understand the bible.... jesus came and died for us all... jesus has made the way back to God for all mankind...
the bible states that God is reaching out to us through the holy spirit... God didnt make a mistake ...and satan doesnt win in the end... jesus has the keys of hell and death... so jesus has won the vistory..
loudmouthspeaker 2 years ago
explain his own idea! danger!...let us be Biblical!!!
icbm100s 2 years ago
this salvation thing is a wondrous mystery of GOD and amazing Grace!
This is the heart & soul of the True Gospel of regeneration. Ye must be born again. The renewal of the heart is REAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GreenCures 2 years ago
We can only enter heaven if we live in holiness. But living in holiness on our own is impossible. But through Gods Grace we can live in holiness. Jesus death on the cross justified us before God. Once justified, we can receive Gods fullness of grace through the Holy Spirit who transforms our hearts of stone to hearts of flesh. Our hearts of flesh allow us to live in holiness, which allow us entrance into heaven. May the Holy Spirit lead us to all truth and sanctify us for our salvation.
Heb59 2 years ago
Please know that a person who seeks salvation needs first to repent (the changing of mind), confession of being a sinner who needs a savior, and receiving Christ as Savior and Lord.
After this, the new believer SHOULD study the Bible and its doctrines, including the doctrine of election.
We never cease and desist from confessing our sins (James 5; 1 John 1:9) this side of The Day.
May we all pursue sanctification! :-)
Skep999 2 years ago
The idiot -- the fool -- is the one who will not receive Christ's gift. Knowing that you will be held accountable for your actions and words, why would you NOT confess your need for a savior? The closer I get to middle age, the more I see the frailties and evils in my fellow
humans -- including my girlfriend and my own self -- and the more thankful I am to God for His love and mercy. The first step is NOT to worry about being "elect". If you want to be right with God, 1st step is repent. :)
Skep999 2 years ago
up until 4.31 this man taught without implicating the catholic church until he hit a brick wall. now for him to get out of the mess he found himself into, he has to transfer the blame to rome.why don't u guys just ever teach wihtout meaning the catholic church? we as catholics do teach based on scripture and not martin luther. in any case you lot have no choice but but talk rome for thats where you came from
r c sproul is a fraud
jphairy 2 years ago
I will say that I've always been impressed by your faith -- you always speak as if you have no doubt that all these things exist. You also seem well-educated, and apparently enjoy many other blessings, like 3 squares a day and much more you may take for granted... yet all delivered to you ultimately by a God you hate...who doesn't necessarily hate you despite that. I used to be like you too, till I read the New Testament without a made-up mind. It's not easy to understand, but try.Tx 4 listening
bch9999 2 years ago
You're right - God predestines some to Hell by letting them follow their free will -- and some to Heaven by over-riding our natural, God-hating free-will (ie, we'd all normally rather go to Hell than love God back). But both groups have no choice in the matter. So actually, if you are chosen, God can and will change your will... it is explained in Romans 9 kinda beginning about vs 10, but clearer as it goes on till vs 25. Complex, so best to get a modern English version, eg, online Living or NIV
bch9999 2 years ago
"The natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit, for to him they are foolishness; he is not able to know them, for they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:14
Dear friend, I pray God opens your spiritual eyes to understand... don't listen with a closed mind. God loves you infinitely, the Bible is clear.
bch9999 2 years ago
So sin that god created to begin with?I see circular reasoning.
HerDarkestHour 2 years ago
God created disobedience? How so?
4570sharps 2 years ago
Disobedience =/= sin.
HerDarkestHour 2 years ago
What does =/= mean? Are you saying "Disobedience doesn't equal sin"? If so then how so? (please note, this response is ending with the same unanswered question my last response ended with)
4570sharps 2 years ago
apparently it created either directly or foreseeably Indirectly. If you had all of eternity to make something wouldn't you want to make it flawless? Why be in a rush to finish your "greatest creation"? why would he create sin?
HerDarkestHour 2 years ago
****YES****
GreenCures 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Hey,god told me yesterday that you all must send me $1000 each to be saved.he say that's the only way he's coming back. hurry up, god say it.you all must believe me! he say he ain't coming back till i have a million dollar of devotee money!
jojoinhere 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I'm the Messiah! According to God, we are all sinners, and the penalty is eternal death! The great news is God loves me so you must love me too! Admit your sin to me and ask me for forgiveness. Believe in and receive me as LORD of your life and as Savior.
jojoinhere 2 years ago
I'm translating this video to latin america, but i've got a problem. I don't understand what he says in 0:57 : "or to the scapegoat who's to go out into the ............ again later on".
Could anyone help me?
Thanks!
AlexFigueroa 2 years ago
...wilderness and, we will look at that again...
Habit7 2 years ago
Thank you!!
AlexFigueroa 2 years ago
Reconsider translating this video. Our Faith and our works contribute to our justification. James 2:24 we are justified by works an d not by faith alone. Hebrews 5:9 salvation is for thos who OBEY. 1 John 1:7 if we walk in the light our sins will be forgiven and our sins will be cleansed from us.
Heb59 2 years ago
Grace is free, my friend. Nobody gets into heaven because they are obedient, we get into heaven because we were purchased by the blood of Christ. You are talking about a works salvation, which simply isn't Biblical.
"For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."
Ephesians 2:8,9
silmalila 2 years ago 3
I do not believe in works salvation. I believe we are saved by the grace of Jesus. (Act 15:11) and justified by works and not by faith alone. (James 2:24) The works referred to in Ephesians 2:8-9 is the Judaic Works, like circumcission; not the moral law, like the ten commandments. Heb5:9 salvation is for those who OBEY Jesus. God bless you. May the Holy Spirti bring us to all truth. Amen
Heb59 2 years ago
Heb59, the 10 commandments ARE part of the Judaic works. Repent you heretic.
CASSMAN777 2 years ago
The bible says that NO ONE will be justified by the law (Romans 3:20), and that we are justified by faith WITHOUT the deeds of the law (Romans 3:28). Jam 2:24 is talking about being justified by men, not God. Read the context when it says "SHOW me your faith w/o works, and I will SHOW you my faith BY my works (Jam 2:18)." Jam 2:24 is about using works to SHOW you're faith is truly legit, its not saying that God counts us righteous based on certain works we do.
CASSMAN777 2 years ago 2
Truly, any soul that has the Holy Spirit within them, will automatically be more righteous & do good works.
kub73158 2 years ago 2
Logic. How refreshing.
bonajab 2 years ago 11
***EXACTLY!!!***
The debt is paid, with Christ bearing the sins, but our account is still a zero-balance with regard to the REQUIRED righteousness needed to enter heaven---- so, righteousness IMPUTED-----> transferred to our "account" so that we are just...important you guys,
woooooo hooooo Glory to God
GreenCures 2 years ago 3
this message is IMPORTANT
Amazing, Amazing Grace
GreenCures 2 years ago 2
I love the doctrine of imputation. It's awesome.
coreva 2 years ago 14
ROBERT SPROUL IS GORGEOUS
In Christ
Encelabus 3 years ago 2
I like Mr.Sproul
ByGrace100 3 years ago 3
Preach it R.C.! Don't stop brotha!
billy143 3 years ago 3
I apollogize for my low english level... I speak spanish (i'm from Chile, south america) and sometimes i cannot express ideas as i want. I hope sincerely that what i've stated here have been understood by you...
blesses
AlexFigueroa 3 years ago
vaya,, haberlo dicho antes, soy de Honduras y tambien me es dificil el ingles
Bendiciones
mjmenjivar 3 years ago
jajajaja... se parece a un chiste que escuché una vez.
Bendiciones para tí también.
AlexFigueroa 3 years ago
Yo tambien soy de Chile. Puedo leer ingles pero escribo y entiendo muy poco cuando hablan... he leido varios libros de R.C. , un par en ingles... me encanta RC Sproul... porque alguien no intenta traducir el video
emergente101 3 years ago
I believe God nails Jesus Christ couple thousand times, Jesus would be our savior. You know to avoid unjust taxation, you know unjust wars. Take a look of the religion/war history, gods are still just man-made concept only. Nobody understands what safe means when they need to think to obtain one. Bye you self made Jewish.
beancube2008 3 years ago
Justification took place on the cross, and is an ETENRAL act not a momentary one.
Just as condemnation of those who can not fulfill the law is an Eternal offence to a God Who DOES NOT LIVE BY MOMENT!
MRKetter81 3 years ago
Mjmenjivar, What do you think about this?
"One of those listening was a woman named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth from the city of Thyatira, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul's message" (Acts 16:14).
Could she resist such a thing?
Anyway, human responsability is also clear in the Bible (in example Jn. 1:12), with the clarifications pointed out by Skalapunk.
AlexFigueroa 3 years ago
2Tim.2-12:13 "It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we DENY him, he also will DENY us"
"We" means us believers, faithful cristians,
Your doctrine says It is imposible to deny Chris after you are justified or "born again" if u denied him, you were never justified.
The Bible and the Church says that YES, take care of your soul because you can deny Him because we are still sinners
mjmenjivar 3 years ago
We don't say that christians don't fall. Rather, we say that justified person will not perish with the world, because it is a pledge of God: "he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus" (Phil.1:6).
Apart from that, you must remember that epistles contain many times warnings to unbelievers which attend church, because it was perfectly possible that many people socalled christian were actually not justified persons.
AlexFigueroa 3 years ago
"...you must remember that epistles contain many times warnings to unbelievers"
ummm,interesting, where you got that?
Timothy received warnings from Paul, was he an unbeliever?
mjmenjivar 3 years ago
I said such a thing because Timothy must teach to congregation what is contained in the epistle, that verse included.
AlexFigueroa 3 years ago
You said that because you believe a Believer is already saved, and there is nothing to be worried about his salvation, it is done, but warnings are for us, to take care because satan is working in the other side trying to kill us, make us lose our salvation.
"Timothy must teach to congregation what is contained in the epistle"
Epistles were important, but they live by tradition, receive and give, epistles were not scriptured yet, for 400 years
mjmenjivar 3 years ago
Paul says: 1Cor9:27 "No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize."
Redemption is different than Salvation, Redemption is FREE given trough Christ for ALL mankind,(God´s creatures) and salvation (race) is the way we obtain this Redemption,
We believe and trust completely in Christ, but we don´t trust ourselves as Paul in 1Cor 9:27 that I quoted.
mjmenjivar 3 years ago
That verse is not about salvation: Paul is talking about service at ministry. The greek word used here is "adokimos", which means "non-aproved", For what? to serve as an apostle. Besides, "prize" is not salvation, but a reward for services rended, which is totally diferent.
Precisely because we trust Christ and don't trust ourselves; we believe that salvation is assured: Salvation is a supernatural work of God in us. Don't mistake it for sanctification, which is diferent from the former.
AlexFigueroa 3 years ago
Paul is talking about a race we are running, we must get to the end, He IS talking about our salvation, read the chapter, "non-aproved" Our reward (prize) is "Eternal Life"
mjmenjivar 3 years ago
Precisely, the chapter deals with the ministry. Paul talks the whole chapter about his service as apostle, and the completion is the verse which you quoted. Therefore, he points out the importance of discipline in ministry.
AlexFigueroa 3 years ago
that´s your interpretation, because if you take it the way it is written, you will need to agree it is about salvation, and it will contradict your doctrine, that´s why you need to interprate it in the way it agrees with you,!
mjmenjivar 3 years ago
Please read the passage, where Paul talks about is ministry as apostle. The verse which you quoted was written in that context, don't twist it.
Besides, if we are saved by grace (or mercy), then why do we need good works? In other words, Why have God to be mercy, if our good works have the power to please him? If you are right, is our justice what let us get to heaven, and not the mercy of the Lord. Moreover, your vision ignores totally the work of the Holy Spirit in us.
AlexFigueroa 3 years ago
We do good works because Jesus said we must do. "come to me...I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink" "Depart from me...I was thirsty, and ye gave me NO drink" The "prize" the Whole Bible, Jesus, Paul always talked about, is "Eternal Life", not in this world but in the one to come.
It is the Mercy of God that saves us because He sees at our "good works" and at our faith trough His ayes of mercy and not in their perfection..
mjmenjivar 3 years ago
The key word is in verse 37: "the righteous". How are you justified according to the Bible? Let the Bible speak: "having been justified by faith" (Ro. 5:1). Jesus is talking about those who were justified by faith, and therefore bore the fruit of a good tree. They showed their faith through their works, and weren't afraid of death when they had to help their brothers (that Jesus identify with himself). This verse talks about those who were pursued because of their faith.
AlexFigueroa 3 years ago
No One can have a perfect Faith, nor perfect good works That´s why we are save by His mercy
The Holy Spirit gives us the power to have faith and to do Good works, it is the holy spirit working in Us because we belong to Jesus
Yes, we need good works, because we want to be like Jesus, love like him, pray like Him, because Jesus was a man of good works
your problem is that you interprate Jesus trough Paul´s eyes and I interprate Paul trough Jesus eyes
mjmenjivar 3 years ago
I agree with all what you've said. And exactly: we need good works, but not in order to be saved. We need them in sanctification, as a fruit. We are new creatures if we are in Christ, and then we've to bear a different fruit. A carnal tree will bear a carnal fruit, and a spiritual tree will bear a spiritual fruit (good works). We do good works because our essence has been transformed: we are no longer dead, but now alive in Christ Jesus.
AlexFigueroa 3 years ago
yes, I agree with what you said too, just one thing, Jesus said, those trees that "do not produce fruits will be chopped down and thrown into a fire"
then, the works or good fruits are needed, The faith is a living force in us that makes us act, "we live by faith".
And, as I said before, no one can have a perfect faith or perfect good fruits,
then,what really save us is "Grace". We must read too James 2:24 "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only"
blesses
mjmenjivar 3 years ago
I agree with you, we need fruits, but as an evidence. You know the tree by the fruit that it bear, but what is relevant is the nature of the tree, and not the fruit borne. The latter is relevant only to "show" (evidence) the nature of the tree, and doesn't add it anything.
Besides, James is talking about the evidence of faith. The key phrase is "I will show you my faith by my works" (2:18). He's attacking a special sort of faith (see the phrase "that faith" in v. 14).
AlexFigueroa 3 years ago
By the way, the sort of faith which James criticize is the faith held by demons (2:19), and obviously "that faith" (v.14) can't justify anybody. Therefore, James is describing the genuine faith, from an external view. Externally, faith needs good works to show itself, but God knows about the existance of faith before it can be showed, thus the justification is by faith, before than the fruits.
AlexFigueroa 3 years ago
Yes, "we need fruits" The Faith the bible tells us, is the Faith in Jesus, a Christian Faith and it is given by the Holy Spirit, He can´t give you a faith of demons,neither the demons can give you faith.
For this faith to be alively faith, we need good works,(fruits) the fruits MAKE the faith alive in us rather than just SHOW
Just as Jesus said, "if you Love me, keep my commandments","He that keep my commandments is the one who loves me"
mjmenjivar 3 years ago
We are Justified by Grace, and just as you need faith to be saved, you also need good works, you can´t omit any of them, both of them are part of our justification, not to put God in debt, but to show Him we love and care for Him, not to show others, keeping Jesus commandments is the way to Love God.
Both, living faith and good works are NECESARY evidence of the source of our new nature in Christ
I understand and agree with most of what you said, i just explained the difference
mjmenjivar 3 years ago
And it would be nice if your church actually confessed that, but they dont.
What your scholars say and your apologists are two different things.
Romans 3:27
"27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law."
Faith might bear fruit, but it does not justify
MRKetter81 2 years ago 2
To be clearer want I mean to say was "fruit" does not justify,
MRKetter81 2 years ago
That´s Catholic teaching my friend, you don´t read the Church doctrine I see.
"Law of Works" "works of the law" refers to Moses´s Laws. The Old testament, There are more than 600 rules in Jews you have to fulfill in order to get salvation, but now, is by Believing in Jesus (Faith), that HE has the perfect law, but belive in what? believe in what He said, to love each other, to love our enemies, that´s the way you belong to Christ; doing what He said.Lots of things He told us to do.
mjmenjivar 2 years ago
As I said, Redemption is different than Salvation, sanctification is an important part of the process of salvation to abtain redemption that is for free.
Example, If someone from europe left you in his will 100 million $ when he died, completely for FREE, it is yours, (redemption) does that mean you don´t have to do anything ? No, now you need go to europe to ask for it, (process of salvation) receive a check (the gospel) endorse it (live by the gospel) then u will obtain the FREE gift
mjmenjivar 3 years ago
Well, in law the money is yours, it has entered to your patrimony. Actually you haven´t to do anything to get something which is yours already. It's a bad illustration, and it demonstrate that distinction between redemtion and salvation is equivocal.
Salvation is a gift of God, completely for free (Eph. 2:8). We are saved "to do" good works (v.10), and not "by" good works(v.9). Thus, good works are the EVIDENCE of salvation, and not its cause.
AlexFigueroa 3 years ago 2
umm, well, again you didnt get my point, if you don´t go ask for the money my friend, it will never be yours.
Second, I havent say "good works" are the cause of salvation, not even faith is the cause of our salvation, but the MERCY of God
God is Judge, what He will judge? "come to me... I was hungry, you feed me, thirsty you gave me to drink, naked, you clothed me." I don´t think there is something clearer than that passage
mjmenjivar 3 years ago
Above all, is Charity, (the Love that Acts) "good works" is not only evidence, because we are being transform.
We do good works because those are Jesus´s commandments, being real disciples of Jesus,
God sees to our "good works" and "Faith" throug his eyes of Mercy, and It is His Grace that saved us,
We agree, salvation is a free gift from God, but you need ask for it, and if you want it more theological, understand then the "Fall" of Adam and Eve and see why it is a free gift
mjmenjivar 3 years ago
AlexFigueroa-Thankyou for rightly dividing the word. I thank you for your clear and biblical comments such as--(Salvation is a gift of God, completely for free (Eph. 2:8). We are saved "to do" good works (v.10), and not "by" good works(v.9). Thus, good works are the EVIDENCE of salvation, and not its cause.) May the Holy Spirit plant this in every heart that reads it! May HE empower you to continue speaking the truth in love.
steve2746 2 years ago 2
O my dear brother in Christ, praised be the Lord. I'm glad to see that God is working in our hearts, and He'll be faithful tu accomplish such work. I'm quite grateful by your words, may the Lord grant us discernment and wisdom, and let him reveal his Holy Son to us.
Blesses
AlexFigueroa 2 years ago
Just one thing remains to be said:
- "AMEN".
AlexFigueroa 3 years ago
I agree with this video with the exception of one "fine" adjustment - which I believe to be of utmost importance in the presentation of this truth. We have been given the righteousness of God, not Christ.
2 Cor 5:21 - this may sound like a technicality (and it is)but God is the prime mover in Salvation. Jesus is the Lamb of God, not man. God is bringing many sons unto Glory.
While some may say that Jesus is God (and he is) but this distinction is critical.
In Christ,
RCobb
wotruth 3 years ago
Mjmenjiver:
those who accept Christ are elect, those who do not are not. Free will is exercised. I will wait to find out why God chose to choose some to be His. I accept by faith now, seeing through a glass darkly, but one day face to face, I will ask IF it is in me to ask. But I doubt it.
Security of the believer is the outgrowth of being one of the elect. So is the finality of Salvation. Rewards ARE a different matter. They can be lost.
AbaloneKid 3 years ago
Kindom of heaven is with us,, and requires from us to keep Jesus´s commandments, the Kindom of Heaven is a Kindom of Love, YOU Can´t put a Limit to the Love of God, It has not limits, The security we have in Cristh is in keeping His commandments, that´s what will shows Jesus we Love Him.
One of His commandments is to preach His gospel to ALL creatures, because salvation is for EVERYONE. The reward is Eternal Life, not matter if you work one day or 100 days, Love is what matters
mjmenjivar 3 years ago
This is an over simplification of the truth. The fact remains that election is true, because God says it is. He has given us ample examples of this in the scripture. It only remains for us to understand what He is talking about. The honest heart knows that it did not make itself believe. God started with dead people and He quickens whom "He" would quicken. The charge of knowing who these individuals are has not been given to men, God has the productive "will"
In Christ,
RCobb
wotruth 3 years ago
To mjmenjivar:
Paul spoke of "rewards" not salvation.
Our salvation is not hanging in limbo, the Spirit makes it clear to us. In the faith we receive from God, our faithfulness to the Lord and in our God consciousness, our hatred of sin that so easily besets us, but most importantly, by God's clear hand in our life (Heb.6:11; 10:22; Jude 1 AND ALL HIS WORD).
AbaloneKid 3 years ago
Taken from Kings James Bible
1Timothy 4:16 "Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both SAVE thyself, and them that hear thee."
Of course we have God´s hand in our life, because we are His sons, and He wants for me to enter heaven because Jesus already Opened the gates of Heaven for me and for all those who want to enter.
mjmenjivar 3 years ago
Good teaching - even the fluctuation of your voice is engaging. Couldn't stop listening!! (not that I wanted 2)
NowFaithe 3 years ago
So, about the Elect ones, I can work and praise God my whole life, but at the End, I can find out I was not elect, I´m going to Hell..??? That´s horrible to live like that,,!!
Does not God wants ALL MANKIND to be saved????
It doesn´t make any sence your doctrine
mjmenjivar 3 years ago
The fact you believe and praise God all your life is a proof of your election. Every single one elected will believe in the time of his life. And will love God and live in faith the rest of his life.
Election brings certain actions into the life - the moment of being born again according to God's will. It is not passive election which affects you after your death. It is something that sets your life on the path God foreordained.
masterowa 3 years ago
Doesn´t God want ALL MAN to be saved???
Doesn´t God gave us Freewill ?
Paul Himself said he can be disaproved, Was He elected when he said that?
Then, why Paul tells us to work hard in ALL his epistles??
mjmenjivar 3 years ago
No he doesn't. He wills his elect to be saved. No, we do not have free will for it would require another working force with God's essence. You simply do not understand what does it mean that God is the only creative power and what is the relationship between creation and creator.
Paul understood sovereignty of God as a reason for working hard. He says that we are to work out the salvation for it is God who works in us BOTH TO WILL and to work for his purpose.
masterowa 3 years ago
explaining it (the meaning of God being the only creator and the highest authority) takes about an hour. It is impossible to do that here. I would advise reading 'God and evil: the problem solved' by Gordon H. Clark - a good start for meditations.
masterowa 3 years ago
* some explanation: God does not WILL all man to be saved, but he takes not pleasure in the destruction of the wicked. He calls all to repent which is a revelation of what is good and perfect. But in his will and purpose he does not save everyone (hidden will/decrees). Which is clearly stated in Romans 9.
masterowa 3 years ago
so, God doesn´t want ALL man to be saved. and We don´t have free will. I can´t believe that!! The God I know YES wants ALL man to be saved and He does not need to take away your free will, so you can believe in Him, He still gives you free will and control you life perfectly, that is the power of God, the God I know.
Creator and creation, doesn´t ALL men are creation of God, so ALL are His sons right?
is that what we,(creation), are? sons of God?
mjmenjivar 3 years ago
are sons of God I think we all can be saved, that is God´s justice, He is Just.
We can not put a limit to the power and Love of God because of how we interprate His word, He doesn´t have limits
One of the biggest problem I see with you is that you try to understand Jesus (God) trough Paul, that´s why you misinterprate the text, when really you need to interprate Paul trough Jesus (God) then you will understand the Text
Jesus died for nothing if God doen´t want all man to be saved
mjmenjivar 3 years ago
Jesus died for his people and he brings his people to the Father.
I did not take this theology from Paul, I took it from Genesis 1-3, Isaiah 10, 40, 46, Psalm 105, Psalm 33, the Gospel of Luke, and MANY more. Paul just confirmed it.
Your problem is that you look at people and create one just much better and more powerful. What you should do is look at God as he described himself and think what does it mean concerning people.
masterowa 3 years ago
no, not ALL man are his sons. All are his creation and therefore as a creation have no power to support themselves nor create.
Free will? You still do not understand what does ONLY Creator means. It means there is no other force to create nor sustain the creation and the creator MUST will something for it to happened. Nothing apart of this rule takes place. He cannot allow anything because allowance require another creative force.
masterowa 3 years ago
So, you deny existance of free will, that´s how you solve the problem ??
mjmenjivar 3 years ago
Who is free? is it the one who is "the servant" of sin? a servant is not free, except to do the will of the master. Who then is free? Christ said that those who He freed were free indeed! but that freedom is not independent from abiding in "HIM". God has given us an example of those He saved from Egypt and afterward He destroyed those who did not believe. God cannot lie, He is always doing the things that are right.
In Christ,
RCobb
wotruth 3 years ago
1. No Biblical basis for Free Will
2. No philosophical nor logical basis for free will - in accordance to God's sovereignty
3. The Free Will theory was created to solve the problems people could not comprehend (usually because of lack of knowledge on Scripture)
4. Start doing research on your own instead of just listening to all that seems logical - that is how I got freed from being Arminian (I was raised as one).
masterowa 3 years ago
"God's sovereignty" for God to be Sovereign, you need to take out "free will" from the picture? so he can be sovereign?, the real sovereignty of God is that He gives you the option to decide for Crist (free will) or to deny Him, and He stills control your life, that´s being Sovereign.
Common sence, you always have the option to received the Grace or to reject it, that´s the free will God has given you.
you see that trough the whole Old Testament, read it.
mjmenjivar 3 years ago
O man! 1. Which part of 'God cannot deny himself' is confusing. He cannot deny his sovreignty by subjescting to human decision.
2. You still do not get what does it mean that God is the only creator and that only he is good. Nothing can happen (along with our will and desires) if God does not will it. Irt is not about allowing something to happen. God must will everything. And the fact of the fall proves that only God is good and if he takes away the grace given before one turns wicked.
masterowa 3 years ago
+ Maybe when you get as far as to Psalms in the Old Testament we can start talking theology.
masterowa 3 years ago